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Re: [solectria_ev] Re: calb battery

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  • Frank John
    CALB s are lithium iron phosphate which I don t think have the same overheating problem as lithium cobalt (LiPo s), at least not to the same extent.  I d try
    Message 1 of 21 , Apr 5, 2013
      CALB's are lithium iron phosphate which I don't think have the same overheating problem as lithium cobalt (LiPo's), at least not to the same extent.  I'd try to recover it.  (I've had a few T-Sky cells accidentally get low due to small discharges while in storage and they've recovered okay.) 


       
      Frank John
      NEDRA NE Regional Director &Loring Timing Association Liaison
      www.nedra.com




      >________________________________
      > From: Ken <sghiahughes@...>
      >To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
      >Sent: Friday, April 5, 2013 8:17 AM
      >Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: calb battery
      >
      >

      >I believe this is a lithium-ion battery. If so, it is extremely dangerous to recharge it after overdischarging it. This can lead to overheating and fire in the cell. Once the cell has been over-discharged, you can't recharge it. It's not like a lead acid cell.
      >
      >Ken
      >
      >--- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, theoldcars@... wrote:
      >>
      >> It might be alright
      >>
      >> I would just slowly charge it to full and cycle it kindly and measure the
      >> capacity.
      >>
      >> Since it did not go to zero volts it just might recover fully.
      >>
      >> What load was it under when it was at 1 volt?
      >>
      >> Don Blazer
      >>
      >>
      >> In a message dated 4/4/2013 10:50:14 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
      >> russell_fauver@... writes:
      >>
      >> I have been cycling my new Calb CA100's and I let one of 'em get too low.
      >> I was discharging it, went outside and promptly forgot about it. When I
      >> came back in I disconnected the load and checked the voltage... 1.0 volts.
      >> After sitting for a few minutes it had recovered to 2 volts and I connected it
      >> to another cell that I drained to 2.8v earlier in the day. It seemed to
      >> accept the power ok but I wonder if i've done any permanent damage to the
      >> battery. Would it be best to just trash it or should I spend some time cycling
      >> it and see how it does? I'd hate to put it in the car and have trouble
      >> with it down the road. What do you think?
      >>
      >>
      >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >>
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Russell Fauver
      It was discharging at 7 amps when I came inside and realized what I did. I told my wife to pull the plug since she was right next to it. Maybe 30 seconds or so
      Message 2 of 21 , Apr 6, 2013
        It was discharging at 7 amps when I came inside and realized what I did. I told my wife to pull the plug since she was right next to it. Maybe 30 seconds or so had passed until I got there and measured the voltage at 1.0, I don't know how low it was under load.

        Last night I matched it up with 3 other discharged cells and put them on an 8 amp charge. The one I over discharged started out about 0.02 volts higher than the others and stayed within 0.05 during the charge. After 3 hours I took 'em off the charger and tied them together in parallel to let them sit over night.

        I'll charge them more today and see how it goes.

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • anthony c
        Great info from the group(S). I am happy to see Ranger EV people here as we all can learn from eachother. I just saw the magic words...GROUP BUY. Please let
        Message 3 of 21 , Apr 6, 2013
          Great info from the group(S). I am happy to see Ranger EV people here as we all can learn from eachother.

          I just saw the magic words...GROUP BUY.

          Please let me know when another one is coming around, my Fiero EV Project is going LiFePO4 (because you can't get NiMH).

          Ant

          --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, Frank John <biker_ev@...> wrote:
          >
          > CALB's are lithium iron phosphate which I don't think have the same overheating problem as lithium cobalt (LiPo's), at least not to the same extent.  I'd try to recover it.  (I've had a few T-Sky cells accidentally get low due to small discharges while in storage and they've recovered okay.) 
          >
          >
          >  
          > Frank John
          > NEDRA NE Regional Director &Loring Timing Association Liaison
          > www.nedra.com
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > >________________________________
          > > From: Ken <sghiahughes@...>
          > >To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
          > >Sent: Friday, April 5, 2013 8:17 AM
          > >Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: calb battery
          > >
          > >
          > > 
          > >I believe this is a lithium-ion battery. If so, it is extremely dangerous to recharge it after overdischarging it. This can lead to overheating and fire in the cell. Once the cell has been over-discharged, you can't recharge it. It's not like a lead acid cell.
          > >
          > >Ken
          > >
          > >--- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, theoldcars@ wrote:
          > >>
          > >> It might be alright
          > >>
          > >> I would just slowly charge it to full and cycle it kindly and measure the
          > >> capacity.
          > >>
          > >> Since it did not go to zero volts it just might recover fully.
          > >>
          > >> What load was it under when it was at 1 volt?
          > >>
          > >> Don Blazer
          > >>
          > >>
          > >> In a message dated 4/4/2013 10:50:14 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
          > >> russell_fauver@ writes:
          > >>
          > >> I have been cycling my new Calb CA100's and I let one of 'em get too low.
          > >> I was discharging it, went outside and promptly forgot about it. When I
          > >> came back in I disconnected the load and checked the voltage... 1.0 volts.
          > >> After sitting for a few minutes it had recovered to 2 volts and I connected it
          > >> to another cell that I drained to 2.8v earlier in the day. It seemed to
          > >> accept the power ok but I wonder if i've done any permanent damage to the
          > >> battery. Would it be best to just trash it or should I spend some time cycling
          > >> it and see how it does? I'd hate to put it in the car and have trouble
          > >> with it down the road. What do you think?
          > >>
          > >>
          > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >>
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • russell_fauver
          Good news. It doesn t seem like the battery was hurt by draining it down to 1.0v. I charged the 4 batteries for 8 more hours today at 9ah. Let them rest for a
          Message 4 of 21 , Apr 6, 2013
            Good news. It doesn't seem like the battery was hurt by draining it down to 1.0v. I charged the 4 batteries for 8 more hours today at 9ah. Let them rest for a few hours, then put them back on tonight at 10ah and it took 1:35 to finish them up. When the first cell hit 3.55 I stopped the charge. The 4 cell readings were 3.55, 3.45, 3.47 and the one I flattened was 3.51. They all stayed nice and cool during the charge.

            This morning they were all at exactly the same voltage after being tied in parallel overnight. I was surprised by how close they stayed during the 8 charge today, the voltage between cells didn't stray more than 0.01. Tonight was pretty consistent too until they hit 3.4 volts, then they started drifting apart.

            --- In solectria_ev@yahoo groups.com, Russell Fauver <russell_fauver@...> wrote:
            >
            > It was discharging at 7 amps when I came inside and realized what I did. I told my wife to pull the plug since she was right next to it. Maybe 30 seconds or so had passed until I got there and measured the voltage at 1.0, I don't know how low it was under load.
            >
            > Last night I matched it up with 3 other discharged cells and put them on an 8 amp charge. The one I over discharged started out about 0.02 volts higher than the others and stayed within 0.05 during the charge. After 3 hours I took 'em off the charger and tied them together in parallel to let them sit over night.
            >
            > I'll charge them more today and see how it goes.
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • russell_fauver
            Today I drained those 4 batteries. I connected them in series to a 12 volt 250 watt landing light at 11:30 and at 5pm the cell voltage dropped below 3 volts.
            Message 5 of 21 , Apr 8, 2013
              Today I drained those 4 batteries. I connected them in series to a 12 volt 250 watt landing light at 11:30 and at 5pm the cell voltage dropped below 3 volts. At 5:20 I measured 3 cells at 2.8 and the one that I accidentally over-discharged was down to 2.6 so I stopped right there. Their voltages stayed remarkably even during the discharge until dropping below 3.0 but that seems to be the same thing that happened with the rest of the pack too when I was draining them. so 250 watts/12.8v nominal x 5:50 = 113.8ah

              Russell


              --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "russell_fauver" <russell_fauver@...> wrote:
              >
              > Good news. It doesn't seem like the battery was hurt by draining it down to 1.0v. I charged the 4 batteries for 8 more hours today at 9ah. Let them rest for a few hours, then put them back on tonight at 10ah and it took 1:35 to finish them up. When the first cell hit 3.55 I stopped the charge. The 4 cell readings were 3.55, 3.45, 3.47 and the one I flattened was 3.51. They all stayed nice and cool during the charge.
              >
              > This morning they were all at exactly the same voltage after being tied in parallel overnight. I was surprised by how close they stayed during the 8 charge today, the voltage between cells didn't stray more than 0.01. Tonight was pretty consistent too until they hit 3.4 volts, then they started drifting apart.
              >
              > --- In solectria_ev@yahoo groups.com, Russell Fauver <russell_fauver@> wrote:
              > >
              > > It was discharging at 7 amps when I came inside and realized what I did. I told my wife to pull the plug since she was right next to it. Maybe 30 seconds or so had passed until I got there and measured the voltage at 1.0, I don't know how low it was under load.
              > >
              > > Last night I matched it up with 3 other discharged cells and put them on an 8 amp charge. The one I over discharged started out about 0.02 volts higher than the others and stayed within 0.05 during the charge. After 3 hours I took 'em off the charger and tied them together in parallel to let them sit over night.
              > >
              > > I'll charge them more today and see how it goes.
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              >
            • theoldcars
              Or you could say it is a 20 amp load for 5.5 hours = 110Ah Which is not bad for a 100Ah cell. So no loss of capacity and most likely will not affect the cycle
              Message 6 of 21 , Apr 8, 2013
                Or you could say it is a 20 amp load for 5.5 hours = 110Ah

                Which is not bad for a 100Ah cell.

                So no loss of capacity and most likely will not affect the cycle life.

                Glad to hear all is well

                Don Blazer


                In a message dated 4/8/2013 5:05:07 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
                russell_fauver@... writes:

                Today I drained those 4 batteries. I connected them in series to a 12 volt
                250 watt landing light at 11:30 and at 5pm the cell voltage dropped below
                3 volts. At 5:20 I measured 3 cells at 2.8 and the one that I accidentally
                over-discharged was down to 2.6 so I stopped right there. Their voltages
                stayed remarkably even during the discharge until dropping below 3.0 but that
                seems to be the same thing that happened with the rest of the pack too
                when I was draining them. so 250 watts/12.8v nominal x 5:50 = 113.8ah

                Russell

                --- In _solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com_
                (mailto:solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com) , "russell_fauver" <russell_fauver@...> wrote:
                >
                > Good news. It doesn't seem like the battery was hurt by draining it down
                to 1.0v. I charged the 4 batteries for 8 more hours today at 9ah. Let them
                rest for a few hours, then put them back on tonight at 10ah and it took
                1:35 to finish them up. When the first cell hit 3.55 I stopped the charge.
                The 4 cell readings were 3.55, 3.45, 3.47 and the one I flattened was 3.51.
                They all stayed nice and cool during the charge.
                >
                > This morning they were all at exactly the same voltage after being tied
                in parallel overnight. I was surprised by how close they stayed during the
                8 charge today, the voltage between cells didn't stray more than 0.01.
                Tonight was pretty consistent too until they hit 3.4 volts, then they started
                drifting apart.
                >
                > --- In solectria_ev@yahoo groups.com, Russell Fauver <russell_fauver@>
                wrote:
                > >
                > > It was discharging at 7 amps when I came inside and realized what I
                did. I told my wife to pull the plug since she was right next to it. Maybe 30
                seconds or so had passed until I got there and measured the voltage at
                1.0, I don't know how low it was under load.
                > >
                > > Last night I matched it up with 3 other discharged cells and put them
                on an 8 amp charge. The one I over discharged started out about 0.02 volts
                higher than the others and stayed within 0.05 during the charge. After 3
                hours I took 'em off the charger and tied them together in parallel to
                let them sit over night.
                > >
                > > I'll charge them more today and see how it goes.
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                >


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • MARK BUSH
                Hi Russell, If you want to know what is going on in these CA Cells I would suggest watching www.evtv.me watch the friday April 5 2013 show. Jack Rickard has
                Message 7 of 21 , Apr 8, 2013
                  Hi Russell,
                  If you want to know what is going on in these CA Cells I would suggest watching www.evtv.me watch the friday April 5 2013 show. Jack Rickard has been playing with these batteries LiFePO4 since 2008 he has personally destroyed many cells in the name of science and knows by experiment after expensive experiment how they function� check it out.
                  Mark J Bush
                  "Keep On Pluggin"

                  On Apr 4, 2013, at 10:50 AM, russell_fauver <russell_fauver@...> wrote:

                  > I have been cycling my new Calb CA100's and I let one of 'em get too low. I was discharging it, went outside and promptly forgot about it. When I came back in I disconnected the load and checked the voltage... 1.0 volts. After sitting for a few minutes it had recovered to 2 volts and I connected it to another cell that I drained to 2.8v earlier in the day. It seemed to accept the power ok but I wonder if i've done any permanent damage to the battery. Would it be best to just trash it or should I spend some time cycling it and see how it does? I'd hate to put it in the car and have trouble with it down the road. What do you think?
                  >
                  >



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • paul dove
                  That is not correct information Don. These cells will indeed catch fire when over charged. If one just overcharges them a little they will still be damaged.
                  Message 8 of 21 , Apr 9, 2013
                    That is not correct information Don. These cells will indeed catch fire when over charged. If one just overcharges them a little they will still be damaged. Check the capacity and you will see they have lost some.

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • paul dove
                    Yes, measuring the capacity is the only way to tell. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    Message 9 of 21 , Apr 9, 2013
                      Yes, measuring the capacity is the only way to tell.

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • paul dove
                      The only way to know for sure is to measure the Ah capacity of the battery. Voltage is almost meaningless [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      Message 10 of 21 , Apr 9, 2013
                        The only way to know for sure is to measure the Ah capacity of the battery. Voltage is almost meaningless

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • paul dove
                        bad conclusion. It dropped before the rest so some damage but minimal. still useable if you bottom balance the pack. ________________________________ From:
                        Message 11 of 21 , Apr 9, 2013
                          bad conclusion. It dropped before the rest so some damage but minimal. still
                          useable if you bottom balance the pack.




                          ________________________________
                          From: "theoldcars@..." <theoldcars@...>
                          To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Mon, April 8, 2013 8:37:14 PM
                          Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Re: calb battery


                          Or you could say it is a 20 amp load for 5.5 hours = 110Ah

                          Which is not bad for a 100Ah cell.

                          So no loss of capacity and most likely will not affect the cycle life.

                          Glad to hear all is well

                          Don Blazer


                          In a message dated 4/8/2013 5:05:07 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
                          russell_fauver@... writes:

                          Today I drained those 4 batteries. I connected them in series to a 12 volt
                          250 watt landing light at 11:30 and at 5pm the cell voltage dropped below
                          3 volts. At 5:20 I measured 3 cells at 2.8 and the one that I accidentally
                          over-discharged was down to 2.6 so I stopped right there. Their voltages
                          stayed remarkably even during the discharge until dropping below 3.0 but that
                          seems to be the same thing that happened with the rest of the pack too
                          when I was draining them. so 250 watts/12.8v nominal x 5:50 = 113.8ah

                          Russell

                          --- In _solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com_
                          (mailto:solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com) , "russell_fauver" <russell_fauver@...>
                          wrote:
                          >
                          > Good news. It doesn't seem like the battery was hurt by draining it down
                          to 1.0v. I charged the 4 batteries for 8 more hours today at 9ah. Let them
                          rest for a few hours, then put them back on tonight at 10ah and it took
                          1:35 to finish them up. When the first cell hit 3.55 I stopped the charge.
                          The 4 cell readings were 3.55, 3.45, 3.47 and the one I flattened was 3.51.
                          They all stayed nice and cool during the charge.
                          >
                          > This morning they were all at exactly the same voltage after being tied
                          in parallel overnight. I was surprised by how close they stayed during the
                          8 charge today, the voltage between cells didn't stray more than 0.01.
                          Tonight was pretty consistent too until they hit 3.4 volts, then they started
                          drifting apart.
                          >
                          > --- In solectria_ev@yahoo groups.com, Russell Fauver <russell_fauver@>
                          wrote:
                          > >
                          > > It was discharging at 7 amps when I came inside and realized what I
                          did. I told my wife to pull the plug since she was right next to it. Maybe 30
                          seconds or so had passed until I got there and measured the voltage at
                          1.0, I don't know how low it was under load.
                          > >
                          > > Last night I matched it up with 3 other discharged cells and put them
                          on an 8 amp charge. The one I over discharged started out about 0.02 volts
                          higher than the others and stayed within 0.05 during the charge. After 3
                          hours I took 'em off the charger and tied them together in parallel to
                          let them sit over night.
                          > >
                          > > I'll charge them more today and see how it goes.
                          > >
                          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > >
                          >

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • russell_fauver
                          thanks Mark. Lots of great info on there Russell
                          Message 12 of 21 , Apr 9, 2013
                            thanks Mark. Lots of great info on there

                            Russell


                            --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, MARK BUSH <musicmjb@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Hi Russell,
                            > If you want to know what is going on in these CA Cells I would suggest watching www.evtv.me watch the friday April 5 2013 show. Jack Rickard has been playing with these batteries LiFePO4 since 2008 he has personally destroyed many cells in the name of science and knows by experiment after expensive experiment how they function… check it out.
                            > Mark J Bush
                            > "Keep On Pluggin"
                            >
                            > On Apr 4, 2013, at 10:50 AM, russell_fauver <russell_fauver@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > > I have been cycling my new Calb CA100's and I let one of 'em get too low. I was discharging it, went outside and promptly forgot about it. When I came back in I disconnected the load and checked the voltage... 1.0 volts. After sitting for a few minutes it had recovered to 2 volts and I connected it to another cell that I drained to 2.8v earlier in the day. It seemed to accept the power ok but I wonder if i've done any permanent damage to the battery. Would it be best to just trash it or should I spend some time cycling it and see how it does? I'd hate to put it in the car and have trouble with it down the road. What do you think?
                            > >
                            > >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
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