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Re: [solectria_ev] calb battery

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  • theoldcars
    Hello Bouty I agree with you if it was a very low discharge the cell would have a much better chance. Its why I asked what load was the cell under. It is
    Message 1 of 21 , Apr 5, 2013
      Hello Bouty

      I agree with you if it was a very low discharge the cell would have a much
      better chance. Its why I asked what load was the cell under. It is
      interesting information to know if it will recover and what the load was.

      Don Blazer


      In a message dated 4/5/2013 8:57:12 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
      cfrkeepr@... writes:

      Hi Don,
      I have had quite a few TS cells go to 0v (my mistakes) and brought them
      back to life not once but several times; (the Ranger accessory bat with old
      DS-50 does it if I don't watch it) with gentle charging. I've also had many
      cells go bad by overcharging, they do not recover. It would seem that if a
      cell goes to zero in a very slow discharge there is good chance of
      recovery, but any cell discharged or charged too aggressively is unlikely to be
      used again. It is worth the try. FWIW
      Bouty

      ________________________________
      From: "_theoldcars@..._ (mailto:theoldcars@...) "
      <_theoldcars@..._ (mailto:theoldcars@...) >
      To: _solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com)
      Sent: Thursday, April 4, 2013 2:48 PM
      Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] calb battery


      It might be alright

      I would just slowly charge it to full and cycle it kindly and measure the
      capacity.

      Since it did not go to zero volts it just might recover fully.

      What load was it under when it was at 1 volt?

      Don Blazer

      In a message dated 4/4/2013 10:50:14 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
      mailto:russell_fauver%40yahoo.com writes:

      I have been cycling my new Calb CA100's and I let one of 'em get too low.
      I was discharging it, went outside and promptly forgot about it. When I
      came back in I disconnected the load and checked the voltage... 1.0 volts.
      After sitting for a few minutes it had recovered to 2 volts and I
      connected it
      to another cell that I drained to 2.8v earlier in the day. It seemed to
      accept the power ok but I wonder if i've done any permanent damage to the
      battery. Would it be best to just trash it or should I spend some time
      cycling
      it and see how it does? I'd hate to put it in the car and have trouble
      with it down the road. What do you think?


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Frank John
      CALB s are lithium iron phosphate which I don t think have the same overheating problem as lithium cobalt (LiPo s), at least not to the same extent.  I d try
      Message 2 of 21 , Apr 5, 2013
        CALB's are lithium iron phosphate which I don't think have the same overheating problem as lithium cobalt (LiPo's), at least not to the same extent.  I'd try to recover it.  (I've had a few T-Sky cells accidentally get low due to small discharges while in storage and they've recovered okay.) 


         
        Frank John
        NEDRA NE Regional Director &Loring Timing Association Liaison
        www.nedra.com




        >________________________________
        > From: Ken <sghiahughes@...>
        >To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
        >Sent: Friday, April 5, 2013 8:17 AM
        >Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: calb battery
        >
        >

        >I believe this is a lithium-ion battery. If so, it is extremely dangerous to recharge it after overdischarging it. This can lead to overheating and fire in the cell. Once the cell has been over-discharged, you can't recharge it. It's not like a lead acid cell.
        >
        >Ken
        >
        >--- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, theoldcars@... wrote:
        >>
        >> It might be alright
        >>
        >> I would just slowly charge it to full and cycle it kindly and measure the
        >> capacity.
        >>
        >> Since it did not go to zero volts it just might recover fully.
        >>
        >> What load was it under when it was at 1 volt?
        >>
        >> Don Blazer
        >>
        >>
        >> In a message dated 4/4/2013 10:50:14 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
        >> russell_fauver@... writes:
        >>
        >> I have been cycling my new Calb CA100's and I let one of 'em get too low.
        >> I was discharging it, went outside and promptly forgot about it. When I
        >> came back in I disconnected the load and checked the voltage... 1.0 volts.
        >> After sitting for a few minutes it had recovered to 2 volts and I connected it
        >> to another cell that I drained to 2.8v earlier in the day. It seemed to
        >> accept the power ok but I wonder if i've done any permanent damage to the
        >> battery. Would it be best to just trash it or should I spend some time cycling
        >> it and see how it does? I'd hate to put it in the car and have trouble
        >> with it down the road. What do you think?
        >>
        >>
        >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >>
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Russell Fauver
        It was discharging at 7 amps when I came inside and realized what I did. I told my wife to pull the plug since she was right next to it. Maybe 30 seconds or so
        Message 3 of 21 , Apr 6, 2013
          It was discharging at 7 amps when I came inside and realized what I did. I told my wife to pull the plug since she was right next to it. Maybe 30 seconds or so had passed until I got there and measured the voltage at 1.0, I don't know how low it was under load.

          Last night I matched it up with 3 other discharged cells and put them on an 8 amp charge. The one I over discharged started out about 0.02 volts higher than the others and stayed within 0.05 during the charge. After 3 hours I took 'em off the charger and tied them together in parallel to let them sit over night.

          I'll charge them more today and see how it goes.

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • anthony c
          Great info from the group(S). I am happy to see Ranger EV people here as we all can learn from eachother. I just saw the magic words...GROUP BUY. Please let
          Message 4 of 21 , Apr 6, 2013
            Great info from the group(S). I am happy to see Ranger EV people here as we all can learn from eachother.

            I just saw the magic words...GROUP BUY.

            Please let me know when another one is coming around, my Fiero EV Project is going LiFePO4 (because you can't get NiMH).

            Ant

            --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, Frank John <biker_ev@...> wrote:
            >
            > CALB's are lithium iron phosphate which I don't think have the same overheating problem as lithium cobalt (LiPo's), at least not to the same extent.  I'd try to recover it.  (I've had a few T-Sky cells accidentally get low due to small discharges while in storage and they've recovered okay.) 
            >
            >
            >  
            > Frank John
            > NEDRA NE Regional Director &Loring Timing Association Liaison
            > www.nedra.com
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > >________________________________
            > > From: Ken <sghiahughes@...>
            > >To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
            > >Sent: Friday, April 5, 2013 8:17 AM
            > >Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: calb battery
            > >
            > >
            > > 
            > >I believe this is a lithium-ion battery. If so, it is extremely dangerous to recharge it after overdischarging it. This can lead to overheating and fire in the cell. Once the cell has been over-discharged, you can't recharge it. It's not like a lead acid cell.
            > >
            > >Ken
            > >
            > >--- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, theoldcars@ wrote:
            > >>
            > >> It might be alright
            > >>
            > >> I would just slowly charge it to full and cycle it kindly and measure the
            > >> capacity.
            > >>
            > >> Since it did not go to zero volts it just might recover fully.
            > >>
            > >> What load was it under when it was at 1 volt?
            > >>
            > >> Don Blazer
            > >>
            > >>
            > >> In a message dated 4/4/2013 10:50:14 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
            > >> russell_fauver@ writes:
            > >>
            > >> I have been cycling my new Calb CA100's and I let one of 'em get too low.
            > >> I was discharging it, went outside and promptly forgot about it. When I
            > >> came back in I disconnected the load and checked the voltage... 1.0 volts.
            > >> After sitting for a few minutes it had recovered to 2 volts and I connected it
            > >> to another cell that I drained to 2.8v earlier in the day. It seemed to
            > >> accept the power ok but I wonder if i've done any permanent damage to the
            > >> battery. Would it be best to just trash it or should I spend some time cycling
            > >> it and see how it does? I'd hate to put it in the car and have trouble
            > >> with it down the road. What do you think?
            > >>
            > >>
            > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >>
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • russell_fauver
            Good news. It doesn t seem like the battery was hurt by draining it down to 1.0v. I charged the 4 batteries for 8 more hours today at 9ah. Let them rest for a
            Message 5 of 21 , Apr 6, 2013
              Good news. It doesn't seem like the battery was hurt by draining it down to 1.0v. I charged the 4 batteries for 8 more hours today at 9ah. Let them rest for a few hours, then put them back on tonight at 10ah and it took 1:35 to finish them up. When the first cell hit 3.55 I stopped the charge. The 4 cell readings were 3.55, 3.45, 3.47 and the one I flattened was 3.51. They all stayed nice and cool during the charge.

              This morning they were all at exactly the same voltage after being tied in parallel overnight. I was surprised by how close they stayed during the 8 charge today, the voltage between cells didn't stray more than 0.01. Tonight was pretty consistent too until they hit 3.4 volts, then they started drifting apart.

              --- In solectria_ev@yahoo groups.com, Russell Fauver <russell_fauver@...> wrote:
              >
              > It was discharging at 7 amps when I came inside and realized what I did. I told my wife to pull the plug since she was right next to it. Maybe 30 seconds or so had passed until I got there and measured the voltage at 1.0, I don't know how low it was under load.
              >
              > Last night I matched it up with 3 other discharged cells and put them on an 8 amp charge. The one I over discharged started out about 0.02 volts higher than the others and stayed within 0.05 during the charge. After 3 hours I took 'em off the charger and tied them together in parallel to let them sit over night.
              >
              > I'll charge them more today and see how it goes.
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • russell_fauver
              Today I drained those 4 batteries. I connected them in series to a 12 volt 250 watt landing light at 11:30 and at 5pm the cell voltage dropped below 3 volts.
              Message 6 of 21 , Apr 8, 2013
                Today I drained those 4 batteries. I connected them in series to a 12 volt 250 watt landing light at 11:30 and at 5pm the cell voltage dropped below 3 volts. At 5:20 I measured 3 cells at 2.8 and the one that I accidentally over-discharged was down to 2.6 so I stopped right there. Their voltages stayed remarkably even during the discharge until dropping below 3.0 but that seems to be the same thing that happened with the rest of the pack too when I was draining them. so 250 watts/12.8v nominal x 5:50 = 113.8ah

                Russell


                --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "russell_fauver" <russell_fauver@...> wrote:
                >
                > Good news. It doesn't seem like the battery was hurt by draining it down to 1.0v. I charged the 4 batteries for 8 more hours today at 9ah. Let them rest for a few hours, then put them back on tonight at 10ah and it took 1:35 to finish them up. When the first cell hit 3.55 I stopped the charge. The 4 cell readings were 3.55, 3.45, 3.47 and the one I flattened was 3.51. They all stayed nice and cool during the charge.
                >
                > This morning they were all at exactly the same voltage after being tied in parallel overnight. I was surprised by how close they stayed during the 8 charge today, the voltage between cells didn't stray more than 0.01. Tonight was pretty consistent too until they hit 3.4 volts, then they started drifting apart.
                >
                > --- In solectria_ev@yahoo groups.com, Russell Fauver <russell_fauver@> wrote:
                > >
                > > It was discharging at 7 amps when I came inside and realized what I did. I told my wife to pull the plug since she was right next to it. Maybe 30 seconds or so had passed until I got there and measured the voltage at 1.0, I don't know how low it was under load.
                > >
                > > Last night I matched it up with 3 other discharged cells and put them on an 8 amp charge. The one I over discharged started out about 0.02 volts higher than the others and stayed within 0.05 during the charge. After 3 hours I took 'em off the charger and tied them together in parallel to let them sit over night.
                > >
                > > I'll charge them more today and see how it goes.
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                >
              • theoldcars
                Or you could say it is a 20 amp load for 5.5 hours = 110Ah Which is not bad for a 100Ah cell. So no loss of capacity and most likely will not affect the cycle
                Message 7 of 21 , Apr 8, 2013
                  Or you could say it is a 20 amp load for 5.5 hours = 110Ah

                  Which is not bad for a 100Ah cell.

                  So no loss of capacity and most likely will not affect the cycle life.

                  Glad to hear all is well

                  Don Blazer


                  In a message dated 4/8/2013 5:05:07 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
                  russell_fauver@... writes:

                  Today I drained those 4 batteries. I connected them in series to a 12 volt
                  250 watt landing light at 11:30 and at 5pm the cell voltage dropped below
                  3 volts. At 5:20 I measured 3 cells at 2.8 and the one that I accidentally
                  over-discharged was down to 2.6 so I stopped right there. Their voltages
                  stayed remarkably even during the discharge until dropping below 3.0 but that
                  seems to be the same thing that happened with the rest of the pack too
                  when I was draining them. so 250 watts/12.8v nominal x 5:50 = 113.8ah

                  Russell

                  --- In _solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com_
                  (mailto:solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com) , "russell_fauver" <russell_fauver@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Good news. It doesn't seem like the battery was hurt by draining it down
                  to 1.0v. I charged the 4 batteries for 8 more hours today at 9ah. Let them
                  rest for a few hours, then put them back on tonight at 10ah and it took
                  1:35 to finish them up. When the first cell hit 3.55 I stopped the charge.
                  The 4 cell readings were 3.55, 3.45, 3.47 and the one I flattened was 3.51.
                  They all stayed nice and cool during the charge.
                  >
                  > This morning they were all at exactly the same voltage after being tied
                  in parallel overnight. I was surprised by how close they stayed during the
                  8 charge today, the voltage between cells didn't stray more than 0.01.
                  Tonight was pretty consistent too until they hit 3.4 volts, then they started
                  drifting apart.
                  >
                  > --- In solectria_ev@yahoo groups.com, Russell Fauver <russell_fauver@>
                  wrote:
                  > >
                  > > It was discharging at 7 amps when I came inside and realized what I
                  did. I told my wife to pull the plug since she was right next to it. Maybe 30
                  seconds or so had passed until I got there and measured the voltage at
                  1.0, I don't know how low it was under load.
                  > >
                  > > Last night I matched it up with 3 other discharged cells and put them
                  on an 8 amp charge. The one I over discharged started out about 0.02 volts
                  higher than the others and stayed within 0.05 during the charge. After 3
                  hours I took 'em off the charger and tied them together in parallel to
                  let them sit over night.
                  > >
                  > > I'll charge them more today and see how it goes.
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >
                  >


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • MARK BUSH
                  Hi Russell, If you want to know what is going on in these CA Cells I would suggest watching www.evtv.me watch the friday April 5 2013 show. Jack Rickard has
                  Message 8 of 21 , Apr 8, 2013
                    Hi Russell,
                    If you want to know what is going on in these CA Cells I would suggest watching www.evtv.me watch the friday April 5 2013 show. Jack Rickard has been playing with these batteries LiFePO4 since 2008 he has personally destroyed many cells in the name of science and knows by experiment after expensive experiment how they function� check it out.
                    Mark J Bush
                    "Keep On Pluggin"

                    On Apr 4, 2013, at 10:50 AM, russell_fauver <russell_fauver@...> wrote:

                    > I have been cycling my new Calb CA100's and I let one of 'em get too low. I was discharging it, went outside and promptly forgot about it. When I came back in I disconnected the load and checked the voltage... 1.0 volts. After sitting for a few minutes it had recovered to 2 volts and I connected it to another cell that I drained to 2.8v earlier in the day. It seemed to accept the power ok but I wonder if i've done any permanent damage to the battery. Would it be best to just trash it or should I spend some time cycling it and see how it does? I'd hate to put it in the car and have trouble with it down the road. What do you think?
                    >
                    >



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • paul dove
                    That is not correct information Don. These cells will indeed catch fire when over charged. If one just overcharges them a little they will still be damaged.
                    Message 9 of 21 , Apr 9, 2013
                      That is not correct information Don. These cells will indeed catch fire when over charged. If one just overcharges them a little they will still be damaged. Check the capacity and you will see they have lost some.

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • paul dove
                      Yes, measuring the capacity is the only way to tell. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      Message 10 of 21 , Apr 9, 2013
                        Yes, measuring the capacity is the only way to tell.

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • paul dove
                        The only way to know for sure is to measure the Ah capacity of the battery. Voltage is almost meaningless [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        Message 11 of 21 , Apr 9, 2013
                          The only way to know for sure is to measure the Ah capacity of the battery. Voltage is almost meaningless

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • paul dove
                          bad conclusion. It dropped before the rest so some damage but minimal. still useable if you bottom balance the pack. ________________________________ From:
                          Message 12 of 21 , Apr 9, 2013
                            bad conclusion. It dropped before the rest so some damage but minimal. still
                            useable if you bottom balance the pack.




                            ________________________________
                            From: "theoldcars@..." <theoldcars@...>
                            To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Mon, April 8, 2013 8:37:14 PM
                            Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Re: calb battery


                            Or you could say it is a 20 amp load for 5.5 hours = 110Ah

                            Which is not bad for a 100Ah cell.

                            So no loss of capacity and most likely will not affect the cycle life.

                            Glad to hear all is well

                            Don Blazer


                            In a message dated 4/8/2013 5:05:07 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
                            russell_fauver@... writes:

                            Today I drained those 4 batteries. I connected them in series to a 12 volt
                            250 watt landing light at 11:30 and at 5pm the cell voltage dropped below
                            3 volts. At 5:20 I measured 3 cells at 2.8 and the one that I accidentally
                            over-discharged was down to 2.6 so I stopped right there. Their voltages
                            stayed remarkably even during the discharge until dropping below 3.0 but that
                            seems to be the same thing that happened with the rest of the pack too
                            when I was draining them. so 250 watts/12.8v nominal x 5:50 = 113.8ah

                            Russell

                            --- In _solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com_
                            (mailto:solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com) , "russell_fauver" <russell_fauver@...>
                            wrote:
                            >
                            > Good news. It doesn't seem like the battery was hurt by draining it down
                            to 1.0v. I charged the 4 batteries for 8 more hours today at 9ah. Let them
                            rest for a few hours, then put them back on tonight at 10ah and it took
                            1:35 to finish them up. When the first cell hit 3.55 I stopped the charge.
                            The 4 cell readings were 3.55, 3.45, 3.47 and the one I flattened was 3.51.
                            They all stayed nice and cool during the charge.
                            >
                            > This morning they were all at exactly the same voltage after being tied
                            in parallel overnight. I was surprised by how close they stayed during the
                            8 charge today, the voltage between cells didn't stray more than 0.01.
                            Tonight was pretty consistent too until they hit 3.4 volts, then they started
                            drifting apart.
                            >
                            > --- In solectria_ev@yahoo groups.com, Russell Fauver <russell_fauver@>
                            wrote:
                            > >
                            > > It was discharging at 7 amps when I came inside and realized what I
                            did. I told my wife to pull the plug since she was right next to it. Maybe 30
                            seconds or so had passed until I got there and measured the voltage at
                            1.0, I don't know how low it was under load.
                            > >
                            > > Last night I matched it up with 3 other discharged cells and put them
                            on an 8 amp charge. The one I over discharged started out about 0.02 volts
                            higher than the others and stayed within 0.05 during the charge. After 3
                            hours I took 'em off the charger and tied them together in parallel to
                            let them sit over night.
                            > >
                            > > I'll charge them more today and see how it goes.
                            > >
                            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > >
                            >

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • russell_fauver
                            thanks Mark. Lots of great info on there Russell
                            Message 13 of 21 , Apr 9, 2013
                              thanks Mark. Lots of great info on there

                              Russell


                              --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, MARK BUSH <musicmjb@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Hi Russell,
                              > If you want to know what is going on in these CA Cells I would suggest watching www.evtv.me watch the friday April 5 2013 show. Jack Rickard has been playing with these batteries LiFePO4 since 2008 he has personally destroyed many cells in the name of science and knows by experiment after expensive experiment how they function… check it out.
                              > Mark J Bush
                              > "Keep On Pluggin"
                              >
                              > On Apr 4, 2013, at 10:50 AM, russell_fauver <russell_fauver@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > > I have been cycling my new Calb CA100's and I let one of 'em get too low. I was discharging it, went outside and promptly forgot about it. When I came back in I disconnected the load and checked the voltage... 1.0 volts. After sitting for a few minutes it had recovered to 2 volts and I connected it to another cell that I drained to 2.8v earlier in the day. It seemed to accept the power ok but I wonder if i've done any permanent damage to the battery. Would it be best to just trash it or should I spend some time cycling it and see how it does? I'd hate to put it in the car and have trouble with it down the road. What do you think?
                              > >
                              > >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
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