## Re: Current Draw at Different Speeds

Expand Messages
• For my 97 Force with 156 volt East Penn 8G27 lead acid batteries, a rough rule of thumb is 1 amp per mph at steady speed, level, no wind on good pavement.
Message 1 of 22 , Feb 14, 2013
For my '97 Force with 156 volt East Penn 8G27 lead acid batteries, a rough rule of thumb is 1 amp per mph at steady speed, level, no wind on good pavement. Thus 35 A @ 35 mph, 50 A @ 50 mph, 60 A @ 60 mph, etc.

If you do the math that is equivalent to 1 amp*hour per mile. In reality I rarely get better than 1.2 A*H/mile overall average for a trip.

You may want to increase the estimate accordingly to your experience. This is consistant with assuming that the road load is all rolling friction resistance, no aerodynamic drag, which is a reasonablly good assumption for urban driving. The aero drag component of current (proportional to force, torque) increases as the square of the speed and becomes dominant at high speeds, but won't have much effect below 50 mph.

Bob Strattan
Tulsa, OK

--- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "Michael" wrote:
>
> I'm looking for some info on current draw for a Force.
> How many amps does a Force draw driving on level ground, steady speed at 35 mph, 50 mph and 60 mph and specify the voltage you are running.
> Thanks,
> Michael Conn
>
• I just did a drive yesterday in my 96 Force with 156V 100AH CALB Lithiums - pushed it to (the BMS s) limit, drove 49.8Mi, average speed 40 mph, used 73.27 Ah
Message 2 of 22 , Feb 25, 2013
I just did a drive yesterday in my 96 Force with 156V 100AH CALB Lithiums - pushed it to (the BMS's) limit, drove 49.8Mi, average speed 40 mph, used 73.27 Ah (counter on the dash), and got 1.47 Ah/Mile.

My Force does have an AC24 and DMOC445 in it.

0-60: 12sec
Cruise: 54 Mph (above that, and vibrations get loud)
Top Speed: 74 Mph (Top Speed I've had it to - From my math, that's theoretical as well 13,000RPM)

Thanks,
Otedawg

--- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "Bob" <r.strattan@...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
> For my '97 Force with 156 volt East Penn 8G27 lead acid batteries, a rough rule of thumb is 1 amp per mph at steady speed, level, no wind on good pavement. Thus 35 A @ 35 mph, 50 A @ 50 mph, 60 A @ 60 mph, etc.
>
> If you do the math that is equivalent to 1 amp*hour per mile. In reality I rarely get better than 1.2 A*H/mile overall average for a trip.
>
> You may want to increase the estimate accordingly to your experience. This is consistant with assuming that the road load is all rolling friction resistance, no aerodynamic drag, which is a reasonablly good assumption for urban driving. The aero drag component of current (proportional to force, torque) increases as the square of the speed and becomes dominant at high speeds, but won't have much effect below 50 mph.
>
> Bob Strattan
> Tulsa, OK
>
> --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "Michael" wrote:
> >
> > I'm looking for some info on current draw for a Force.
> > How many amps does a Force draw driving on level ground, steady speed at 35 mph, 50 mph and 60 mph and specify the voltage you are running.
> > Thanks,
> > Michael Conn
> >
>
• By any chance did you leave lead in the front box? Your Ah per mile seems very high Don Blazer In a message dated 2/25/2013 11:03:17 A.M. Pacific Standard
Message 3 of 22 , Feb 25, 2013
By any chance did you leave lead in the front box?

Your Ah per mile seems very high

Don Blazer

In a message dated 2/25/2013 11:03:17 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
joshua.orfield@... writes:

I just did a drive yesterday in my 96 Force with 156V 100AH CALB Lithiums
- pushed it to (the BMS's) limit, drove 49.8Mi, average speed 40 mph, used
73.27 Ah (counter on the dash), and got 1.47 Ah/Mile.

My Force does have an AC24 and DMOC445 in it.

0-60: 12sec
Cruise: 54 Mph (above that, and vibrations get loud)
Top Speed: 74 Mph (Top Speed I've had it to - From my math, that's
theoretical as well 13,000RPM)

Thanks,
Otedawg

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
• Some people have a lead foot! doug 510-304-5001 ________________________________ From: theoldcars@aol.com To:
Message 4 of 22 , Feb 25, 2013
Some people have a lead foot!

doug
510-304-5001

________________________________
From: "theoldcars@..." <theoldcars@...>
To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, February 25, 2013 3:26:45 PM
Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Re: Current Draw at Different Speeds

By any chance did you leave lead in the front box?

Your Ah per mile seems very high

Don Blazer

In a message dated 2/25/2013 11:03:17 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
joshua.orfield@... writes:

I just did a drive yesterday in my 96 Force with 156V 100AH CALB Lithiums
- pushed it to (the BMS's) limit, drove 49.8Mi, average speed 40 mph, used
73.27 Ah (counter on the dash), and got 1.47 Ah/Mile.

My Force does have an AC24 and DMOC445 in it.

0-60: 12sec
Cruise: 54 Mph (above that, and vibrations get loud)
Top Speed: 74 Mph (Top Speed I've had it to - From my math, that's
theoretical as well 13,000RPM)

Thanks,
Otedawg

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
• I did drive the first 15ish miles with a lead foot, heat on high, going about 65-70. (Left late-er for church) Then the rest of the drive was a max speed of 55
Message 5 of 22 , Feb 26, 2013
I did drive the first 15ish miles with a lead foot, heat on high, going about 65-70. (Left late-er for church) Then the rest of the drive was a max speed of 55 up and down hills.

Not to hijack the thread or anything, but I do wonder if it's normal to hear what sounds like gears decelerating when I let off the pedal to coast. It's about the same at all speeds, and about a 1hz slowly fading scrape-ish sound coming from under the hood. I know my brakes are fine (100% new 3 mo ago)...

--- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, Doug Brentlinger <dougb120@...> wrote:
>
> Some people have a lead foot!
>
> doug
> 510-304-5001
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: "theoldcars@..." <theoldcars@...>
> To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Mon, February 25, 2013 3:26:45 PM
> Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Re: Current Draw at Different Speeds
>
>
> By any chance did you leave lead in the front box?
>
> Your Ah per mile seems very high
>
> Don Blazer
>
>
> In a message dated 2/25/2013 11:03:17 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
> joshua.orfield@... writes:
>
> I just did a drive yesterday in my 96 Force with 156V 100AH CALB Lithiums
> - pushed it to (the BMS's) limit, drove 49.8Mi, average speed 40 mph, used
> 73.27 Ah (counter on the dash), and got 1.47 Ah/Mile.
>
> My Force does have an AC24 and DMOC445 in it.
>
> 0-60: 12sec
> Cruise: 54 Mph (above that, and vibrations get loud)
> Top Speed: 74 Mph (Top Speed I've had it to - From my math, that's
> theoretical as well 13,000RPM)
>
> Thanks,
> Otedawg
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
• Oh - and no lead in the front now. 26 Calbs up front, 25 in the back.
Message 6 of 22 , Feb 26, 2013
Oh - and no lead in the front now. 26 Calbs up front, 25 in the back.

--- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "otedawg" <joshua.orfield@...> wrote:
>
> I did drive the first 15ish miles with a lead foot, heat on high, going about 65-70. (Left late-er for church) Then the rest of the drive was a max speed of 55 up and down hills.
>
> Not to hijack the thread or anything, but I do wonder if it's normal to hear what sounds like gears decelerating when I let off the pedal to coast. It's about the same at all speeds, and about a 1hz slowly fading scrape-ish sound coming from under the hood. I know my brakes are fine (100% new 3 mo ago)...
>
> --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, Doug Brentlinger <dougb120@> wrote:
> >
> > Some people have a lead foot!
> >
> > doug
> > 510-304-5001
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: "theoldcars@" <theoldcars@>
> > To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Mon, February 25, 2013 3:26:45 PM
> > Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Re: Current Draw at Different Speeds
> >
> >
> > By any chance did you leave lead in the front box?
> >
> > Your Ah per mile seems very high
> >
> > Don Blazer
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 2/25/2013 11:03:17 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
> > joshua.orfield@ writes:
> >
> > I just did a drive yesterday in my 96 Force with 156V 100AH CALB Lithiums
> > - pushed it to (the BMS's) limit, drove 49.8Mi, average speed 40 mph, used
> > 73.27 Ah (counter on the dash), and got 1.47 Ah/Mile.
> >
> > My Force does have an AC24 and DMOC445 in it.
> >
> > 0-60: 12sec
> > Cruise: 54 Mph (above that, and vibrations get loud)
> > Top Speed: 74 Mph (Top Speed I've had it to - From my math, that's
> > theoretical as well 13,000RPM)
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Otedawg
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
• Okay that explains it. Heat on, 65 to 70 miles an hour, then hills as well. These types of uses really increase your load and amp hours out of the pack.
Message 7 of 22 , Feb 26, 2013
Okay that explains it. Heat on, 65 to 70 miles an hour, then hills as
well. These types of uses really increase your load and amp hours out of the
pack. Great that you have LiFePo4 that has the ability to do so. Considering
an ICE would be costing a lot more for speed and hills. The only advantage
to an ICE is the waste heat that you can use in the winter. Even with
heater on its nice to know that an electric is still the best energy to power a
vehicle.

Just curious anyone know what amp load of the electric heater?

Don Blazer

first 15ish miles with a lead foot, heat on high, going about 65-70. (Left
late-er for church) Then the rest of the drive was a max speed of 55 up and
down hills

In a message dated 2/26/2013 9:33:42 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
joshua.orfield@... writes:

I did drive the first 15ish miles with a lead foot, heat on high, going
about 65-70. (Left late-er for church) Then the rest of the drive was a max
speed of 55 up and down hills.

Not to hijack the thread or anything, but I do wonder if it's normal to
hear what sounds like gears decelerating when I let off the pedal to coast.
sound coming from under the hood. I know my brakes are fine (100% new 3 mo
ago)...

--- In _solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com)
, Doug Brentlinger wrote:
>
> Some people have a lead foot!
>
> doug
> 510-304-5001
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: "theoldcars@..."
> To: _solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com)
> Sent: Mon, February 25, 2013 3:26:45 PM
> Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Re: Current Draw at Different Speeds
>
>
> By any chance did you leave lead in the front box?
>
> Your Ah per mile seems very high
>
> Don Blazer
>
>
> In a message dated 2/25/2013 11:03:17 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
> joshua.orfield@... writes:
>
> I just did a drive yesterday in my 96 Force with 156V 100AH CALB
Lithiums
> - pushed it to (the BMS's) limit, drove 49.8Mi, average speed 40 mph,
used
> 73.27 Ah (counter on the dash), and got 1.47 Ah/Mile.
>
> My Force does have an AC24 and DMOC445 in it.
>
> 0-60: 12sec
> Cruise: 54 Mph (above that, and vibrations get loud)
> Top Speed: 74 Mph (Top Speed I've had it to - From my math, that's
> theoretical as well 13,000RPM)
>
> Thanks,
> Otedawg
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
• Based on some offhand calculations, the heater is somewhere around 12Ah ish (ammeter ticks 0.01Ah every 2-3 seconds or so). I d say somewhere around a 2000Wh
Message 8 of 22 , Feb 26, 2013
Based on some offhand calculations, the heater is somewhere around 12Ah ish (ammeter ticks 0.01Ah every 2-3 seconds or so). I'd say somewhere around a 2000Wh heater is installed.

Thanks,
Josh

--- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, theoldcars@... wrote:
>
> Okay that explains it. Heat on, 65 to 70 miles an hour, then hills as
> well. These types of uses really increase your load and amp hours out of the
> pack. Great that you have LiFePo4 that has the ability to do so. Considering
> an ICE would be costing a lot more for speed and hills. The only advantage
> to an ICE is the waste heat that you can use in the winter. Even with
> heater on its nice to know that an electric is still the best energy to power a
> vehicle.
>
> Just curious anyone know what amp load of the electric heater?
>
> Don Blazer
>
>
> first 15ish miles with a lead foot, heat on high, going about 65-70. (Left
> late-er for church) Then the rest of the drive was a max speed of 55 up and
> down hills
>
>
> In a message dated 2/26/2013 9:33:42 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
> joshua.orfield@... writes:
>
>
>
>
> I did drive the first 15ish miles with a lead foot, heat on high, going
> about 65-70. (Left late-er for church) Then the rest of the drive was a max
> speed of 55 up and down hills.
>
> Not to hijack the thread or anything, but I do wonder if it's normal to
> hear what sounds like gears decelerating when I let off the pedal to coast.
> sound coming from under the hood. I know my brakes are fine (100% new 3 mo
> ago)...
>
> --- In _solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com)
> , Doug Brentlinger wrote:
> >
> > Some people have a lead foot!
> >
> > doug
> > 510-304-5001
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: "theoldcars@"
> > To: _solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com)
> > Sent: Mon, February 25, 2013 3:26:45 PM
> > Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Re: Current Draw at Different Speeds
> >
> >
> > By any chance did you leave lead in the front box?
> >
> > Your Ah per mile seems very high
> >
> > Don Blazer
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 2/25/2013 11:03:17 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
> > joshua.orfield@ writes:
> >
> > I just did a drive yesterday in my 96 Force with 156V 100AH CALB
> Lithiums
> > - pushed it to (the BMS's) limit, drove 49.8Mi, average speed 40 mph,
> used
> > 73.27 Ah (counter on the dash), and got 1.47 Ah/Mile.
> >
> > My Force does have an AC24 and DMOC445 in it.
> >
> > 0-60: 12sec
> > Cruise: 54 Mph (above that, and vibrations get loud)
> > Top Speed: 74 Mph (Top Speed I've had it to - From my math, that's
> > theoretical as well 13,000RPM)
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Otedawg
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
• I just measured what I think is the heater circuit using a clamp-on hall-effect meter. (Current flows in the green & white wires only when the red light in
Message 9 of 22 , Feb 26, 2013
I just measured what I think is the heater circuit using a clamp-on
hall-effect meter. (Current flows in the green & white wires only
when the red light in the heater switch is on.) When first turned on,
the inrush current is about 12A but it quickly stabilizes at 8A when
the element warms up. This is using full pack voltage. So watts are
about 180V * 8A = 1440W.

I've never found it for sure, but there may be a thermal switch on the
heater to prevent overheating. There are four wires going to the
heater box. The two orange ones may be the thermostat that makes the
heater relay drop out. (I've never traced out the entire 12V wiring
under the dash.)

--Gordon Stallings--

On Feb 26, 2013, at 3:04 PM, otedawg wrote:

> Based on some offhand calculations, the heater is somewhere around
> 12Ah ish (ammeter ticks 0.01Ah every 2-3 seconds or so). I'd say
> somewhere around a 2000Wh heater is installed.
>
> Thanks,
> Josh
>
> --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, theoldcars@... wrote:
>>
>> Okay that explains it. Heat on, 65 to 70 miles an hour, then
>> hills as
>> well. These types of uses really increase your load and amp hours
>> out of the
>> pack. Great that you have LiFePo4 that has the ability to do so.
>> Considering
>> an ICE would be costing a lot more for speed and hills. The only
>> to an ICE is the waste heat that you can use in the winter. Even
>> with
>> heater on its nice to know that an electric is still the best
>> energy to power a
>> vehicle.
>>
>> Just curious anyone know what amp load of the electric heater?
>>
>> Don Blazer
>>
>>
>> first 15ish miles with a lead foot, heat on high, going about
>> 65-70. (Left
>> late-er for church) Then the rest of the drive was a max speed of
>> 55 up and
>> down hills
>>
>>
>> In a message dated 2/26/2013 9:33:42 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
>> joshua.orfield@... writes:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I did drive the first 15ish miles with a lead foot, heat on high,
>> going
>> about 65-70. (Left late-er for church) Then the rest of the drive
>> was a max
>> speed of 55 up and down hills.
>>
>> Not to hijack the thread or anything, but I do wonder if it's
>> normal to
>> hear what sounds like gears decelerating when I let off the pedal
>> to coast.
>> scrape-ish
>> sound coming from under the hood. I know my brakes are fine (100%
>> new 3 mo
>> ago)...
>>
>> --- In _solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
>> )
>> , Doug Brentlinger wrote:
>>>
>>> Some people have a lead foot!
>>>
>>> doug
>>> 510-304-5001
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: "theoldcars@"
>>> To: _solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
>>> )
>>> Sent: Mon, February 25, 2013 3:26:45 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Re: Current Draw at Different Speeds
>>>
>>>
>>> By any chance did you leave lead in the front box?
>>>
>>> Your Ah per mile seems very high
>>>
>>> Don Blazer
>>>
>>>
>>> In a message dated 2/25/2013 11:03:17 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
>>> joshua.orfield@ writes:
>>>
>>> I just did a drive yesterday in my 96 Force with 156V 100AH CALB
>> Lithiums
>>> - pushed it to (the BMS's) limit, drove 49.8Mi, average speed 40
>>> mph,
>> used
>>> 73.27 Ah (counter on the dash), and got 1.47 Ah/Mile.
>>>
>>> My Force does have an AC24 and DMOC445 in it.
>>>
>>> 0-60: 12sec
>>> Cruise: 54 Mph (above that, and vibrations get loud)
>>> Top Speed: 74 Mph (Top Speed I've had it to - From my math, that's
>>> theoretical as well 13,000RPM)
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Otedawg
>>>
>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
• It s a ptc so by its nature it stops itself from overheating. I draw about 8amps after it warms up at 170volts. Sent from my iPad ... [Non-text portions of
Message 10 of 22 , Feb 26, 2013
It's a ptc so by its nature it stops itself from overheating. I draw about 8amps after it warms up at 170volts.

On Feb 26, 2013, at 7:22 PM, Gordon Stallings <genki@...> wrote:

> I just measured what I think is the heater circuit using a clamp-on
> hall-effect meter. (Current flows in the green & white wires only
> when the red light in the heater switch is on.) When first turned on,
> the inrush current is about 12A but it quickly stabilizes at 8A when
> the element warms up. This is using full pack voltage. So watts are
> about 180V * 8A = 1440W.
>
> I've never found it for sure, but there may be a thermal switch on the
> heater to prevent overheating. There are four wires going to the
> heater box. The two orange ones may be the thermostat that makes the
> heater relay drop out. (I've never traced out the entire 12V wiring
> under the dash.)
>
> --Gordon Stallings--
>
> On Feb 26, 2013, at 3:04 PM, otedawg wrote:
>
> > Based on some offhand calculations, the heater is somewhere around
> > 12Ah ish (ammeter ticks 0.01Ah every 2-3 seconds or so). I'd say
> > somewhere around a 2000Wh heater is installed.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Josh
> >
> > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, theoldcars@... wrote:
> >>
> >> Okay that explains it. Heat on, 65 to 70 miles an hour, then
> >> hills as
> >> well. These types of uses really increase your load and amp hours
> >> out of the
> >> pack. Great that you have LiFePo4 that has the ability to do so.
> >> Considering
> >> an ICE would be costing a lot more for speed and hills. The only
> >> to an ICE is the waste heat that you can use in the winter. Even
> >> with
> >> heater on its nice to know that an electric is still the best
> >> energy to power a
> >> vehicle.
> >>
> >> Just curious anyone know what amp load of the electric heater?
> >>
> >> Don Blazer
> >>
> >>
> >> first 15ish miles with a lead foot, heat on high, going about
> >> 65-70. (Left
> >> late-er for church) Then the rest of the drive was a max speed of
> >> 55 up and
> >> down hills
> >>
> >>
> >> In a message dated 2/26/2013 9:33:42 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
> >> joshua.orfield@... writes:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I did drive the first 15ish miles with a lead foot, heat on high,
> >> going
> >> about 65-70. (Left late-er for church) Then the rest of the drive
> >> was a max
> >> speed of 55 up and down hills.
> >>
> >> Not to hijack the thread or anything, but I do wonder if it's
> >> normal to
> >> hear what sounds like gears decelerating when I let off the pedal
> >> to coast.
> >> scrape-ish
> >> sound coming from under the hood. I know my brakes are fine (100%
> >> new 3 mo
> >> ago)...
> >>
> >> --- In _solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
> >> )
> >> , Doug Brentlinger wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Some people have a lead foot!
> >>>
> >>> doug
> >>> 510-304-5001
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ________________________________
> >>> From: "theoldcars@"
> >>> To: _solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
> >>> )
> >>> Sent: Mon, February 25, 2013 3:26:45 PM
> >>> Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Re: Current Draw at Different Speeds
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> By any chance did you leave lead in the front box?
> >>>
> >>> Your Ah per mile seems very high
> >>>
> >>> Don Blazer
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> In a message dated 2/25/2013 11:03:17 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
> >>> joshua.orfield@ writes:
> >>>
> >>> I just did a drive yesterday in my 96 Force with 156V 100AH CALB
> >> Lithiums
> >>> - pushed it to (the BMS's) limit, drove 49.8Mi, average speed 40
> >>> mph,
> >> used
> >>> 73.27 Ah (counter on the dash), and got 1.47 Ah/Mile.
> >>>
> >>> My Force does have an AC24 and DMOC445 in it.
> >>>
> >>> 0-60: 12sec
> >>> Cruise: 54 Mph (above that, and vibrations get loud)
> >>> Top Speed: 74 Mph (Top Speed I've had it to - From my math, that's
> >>> theoretical as well 13,000RPM)
> >>>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>> Otedawg
> >>>
> >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
• What is a ptc? doug 510-304-5001 ________________________________ From: Dexion To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
Message 11 of 22 , Feb 27, 2013
What is a ptc?

doug
510-304-5001

________________________________
From: Dexion <dexion111@...>
To: "solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com" <solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tue, February 26, 2013 4:40:44 PM
Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Re: Current Draw at Different Speeds

It's a ptc so by its nature it stops itself from overheating. I draw about 8amps
after it warms up at 170volts.

On Feb 26, 2013, at 7:22 PM, Gordon Stallings genki@...> wrote:

> I just measured what I think is the heater circuit using a clamp-on
> hall-effect meter. (Current flows in the green & white wires only
> when the red light in the heater switch is on.) When first turned on,
> the inrush current is about 12A but it quickly stabilizes at 8A when
> the element warms up. This is using full pack voltage. So watts are
> about 180V * 8A = 1440W.
>
> I've never found it for sure, but there may be a thermal switch on the
> heater to prevent overheating. There are four wires going to the
> heater box. The two orange ones may be the thermostat that makes the
> heater relay drop out. (I've never traced out the entire 12V wiring
> under the dash.)
>
> --Gordon Stallings--
>
> On Feb 26, 2013, at 3:04 PM, otedawg wrote:
>
> > Based on some offhand calculations, the heater is somewhere around
> > 12Ah ish (ammeter ticks 0.01Ah every 2-3 seconds or so). I'd say
> > somewhere around a 2000Wh heater is installed.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Josh
> >
> > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, theoldcars@... wrote:
> >>
> >> Okay that explains it. Heat on, 65 to 70 miles an hour, then
> >> hills as
> >> well. These types of uses really increase your load and amp hours
> >> out of the
> >> pack. Great that you have LiFePo4 that has the ability to do so.
> >> Considering
> >> an ICE would be costing a lot more for speed and hills. The only
> >> to an ICE is the waste heat that you can use in the winter. Even
> >> with
> >> heater on its nice to know that an electric is still the best
> >> energy to power a
> >> vehicle.
> >>
> >> Just curious anyone know what amp load of the electric heater?
> >>
> >> Don Blazer
> >>
> >>
> >> first 15ish miles with a lead foot, heat on high, going about
> >> 65-70. (Left
> >> late-er for church) Then the rest of the drive was a max speed of
> >> 55 up and
> >> down hills
> >>
> >>
> >> In a message dated 2/26/2013 9:33:42 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
> >> joshua.orfield@... writes:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I did drive the first 15ish miles with a lead foot, heat on high,
> >> going
> >> about 65-70. (Left late-er for church) Then the rest of the drive
> >> was a max
> >> speed of 55 up and down hills.
> >>
> >> Not to hijack the thread or anything, but I do wonder if it's
> >> normal to
> >> hear what sounds like gears decelerating when I let off the pedal
> >> to coast.
> >> scrape-ish
> >> sound coming from under the hood. I know my brakes are fine (100%
> >> new 3 mo
> >> ago)...
> >>
> >> --- In _solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
> >> )
> >> , Doug Brentlinger wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Some people have a lead foot!
> >>>
> >>> doug
> >>> 510-304-5001
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ________________________________
> >>> From: "theoldcars@"
> >>> To: _solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
> >>> )
> >>> Sent: Mon, February 25, 2013 3:26:45 PM
> >>> Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Re: Current Draw at Different Speeds
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> By any chance did you leave lead in the front box?
> >>>
> >>> Your Ah per mile seems very high
> >>>
> >>> Don Blazer
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> In a message dated 2/25/2013 11:03:17 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
> >>> joshua.orfield@ writes:
> >>>
> >>> I just did a drive yesterday in my 96 Force with 156V 100AH CALB
> >> Lithiums
> >>> - pushed it to (the BMS's) limit, drove 49.8Mi, average speed 40
> >>> mph,
> >> used
> >>> 73.27 Ah (counter on the dash), and got 1.47 Ah/Mile.
> >>>
> >>> My Force does have an AC24 and DMOC445 in it.
> >>>
> >>> 0-60: 12sec
> >>> Cruise: 54 Mph (above that, and vibrations get loud)
> >>> Top Speed: 74 Mph (Top Speed I've had it to - From my math, that's
> >>> theoretical as well 13,000RPM)
> >>>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>> Otedawg
> >>>
> >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
• Oh sorry positive temperature coefficient the hotter it gets the less it draws. Sent from my iPad ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Message 12 of 22 , Feb 27, 2013
Oh sorry positive temperature coefficient the hotter it gets the less it draws.

On Feb 27, 2013, at 11:21 AM, Doug Brentlinger <dougb120@...> wrote:

> What is a ptc?
>
> doug
> 510-304-5001
>
> ________________________________
> From: Dexion dexion111@...>
> To: "solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com" solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tue, February 26, 2013 4:40:44 PM
> Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Re: Current Draw at Different Speeds
>
> It's a ptc so by its nature it stops itself from overheating. I draw about 8amps
> after it warms up at 170volts.
>
>
> On Feb 26, 2013, at 7:22 PM, Gordon Stallings genki@...> wrote:
>
> > I just measured what I think is the heater circuit using a clamp-on
> > hall-effect meter. (Current flows in the green & white wires only
> > when the red light in the heater switch is on.) When first turned on,
> > the inrush current is about 12A but it quickly stabilizes at 8A when
> > the element warms up. This is using full pack voltage. So watts are
> > about 180V * 8A = 1440W.
> >
> > I've never found it for sure, but there may be a thermal switch on the
> > heater to prevent overheating. There are four wires going to the
> > heater box. The two orange ones may be the thermostat that makes the
> > heater relay drop out. (I've never traced out the entire 12V wiring
> > under the dash.)
> >
> > --Gordon Stallings--
> >
> > On Feb 26, 2013, at 3:04 PM, otedawg wrote:
> >
> > > Based on some offhand calculations, the heater is somewhere around
> > > 12Ah ish (ammeter ticks 0.01Ah every 2-3 seconds or so). I'd say
> > > somewhere around a 2000Wh heater is installed.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Josh
> > >
> > > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, theoldcars@... wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Okay that explains it. Heat on, 65 to 70 miles an hour, then
> > >> hills as
> > >> well. These types of uses really increase your load and amp hours
> > >> out of the
> > >> pack. Great that you have LiFePo4 that has the ability to do so.
> > >> Considering
> > >> an ICE would be costing a lot more for speed and hills. The only
> > >> to an ICE is the waste heat that you can use in the winter. Even
> > >> with
> > >> heater on its nice to know that an electric is still the best
> > >> energy to power a
> > >> vehicle.
> > >>
> > >> Just curious anyone know what amp load of the electric heater?
> > >>
> > >> Don Blazer
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> first 15ish miles with a lead foot, heat on high, going about
> > >> 65-70. (Left
> > >> late-er for church) Then the rest of the drive was a max speed of
> > >> 55 up and
> > >> down hills
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> In a message dated 2/26/2013 9:33:42 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
> > >> joshua.orfield@... writes:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> I did drive the first 15ish miles with a lead foot, heat on high,
> > >> going
> > >> about 65-70. (Left late-er for church) Then the rest of the drive
> > >> was a max
> > >> speed of 55 up and down hills.
> > >>
> > >> Not to hijack the thread or anything, but I do wonder if it's
> > >> normal to
> > >> hear what sounds like gears decelerating when I let off the pedal
> > >> to coast.
> > >> scrape-ish
> > >> sound coming from under the hood. I know my brakes are fine (100%
> > >> new 3 mo
> > >> ago)...
> > >>
> > >> --- In _solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
> > >> )
> > >> , Doug Brentlinger wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> Some people have a lead foot!
> > >>>
> > >>> doug
> > >>> 510-304-5001
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> ________________________________
> > >>> From: "theoldcars@"
> > >>> To: _solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
> > >>> )
> > >>> Sent: Mon, February 25, 2013 3:26:45 PM
> > >>> Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Re: Current Draw at Different Speeds
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> By any chance did you leave lead in the front box?
> > >>>
> > >>> Your Ah per mile seems very high
> > >>>
> > >>> Don Blazer
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> In a message dated 2/25/2013 11:03:17 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
> > >>> joshua.orfield@ writes:
> > >>>
> > >>> I just did a drive yesterday in my 96 Force with 156V 100AH CALB
> > >> Lithiums
> > >>> - pushed it to (the BMS's) limit, drove 49.8Mi, average speed 40
> > >>> mph,
> > >> used
> > >>> 73.27 Ah (counter on the dash), and got 1.47 Ah/Mile.
> > >>>
> > >>> My Force does have an AC24 and DMOC445 in it.
> > >>>
> > >>> 0-60: 12sec
> > >>> Cruise: 54 Mph (above that, and vibrations get loud)
> > >>> Top Speed: 74 Mph (Top Speed I've had it to - From my math, that's
> > >>> theoretical as well 13,000RPM)
> > >>>
> > >>> Thanks,
> > >>> Otedawg
> > >>>
> > >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
• Thank you for replying, I ve never heard of this. (lots of things I haven t heard of.) My Think has a resistive heater, do you think it is also ptc? doug
Message 13 of 22 , Feb 27, 2013
Thank you for replying, I've never heard of this. (lots of things I haven't
heard of.)

My Think has a resistive heater, do you think it is also ptc?
doug
510-304-5001

________________________________
From: Dexion <dexion111@...>
To: "solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com" <solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wed, February 27, 2013 8:27:48 AM
Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Re: Current Draw at Different Speeds

Oh sorry positive temperature coefficient the hotter it gets the less it draws.

On Feb 27, 2013, at 11:21 AM, Doug Brentlinger dougb120@...> wrote:

> What is a ptc?
>
> doug
> 510-304-5001
>
> ________________________________
> From: Dexion dexion111@...>
> To: "solectria_ev@yahoogroups.comsolectria_ev@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tue, February 26, 2013 4:40:44 PM
> Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Re: Current Draw at Different Speeds
>
> It's a ptc so by its nature it stops itself from overheating. I draw about
>8amps
>
> after it warms up at 170volts.
>
>
> On Feb 26, 2013, at 7:22 PM, Gordon Stallings genki@...> wrote:
>
> > I just measured what I think is the heater circuit using a clamp-on
> > hall-effect meter. (Current flows in the green & white wires only
> > when the red light in the heater switch is on.) When first turned on,
> > the inrush current is about 12A but it quickly stabilizes at 8A when
> > the element warms up. This is using full pack voltage. So watts are
> > about 180V * 8A = 1440W.
> >
> > I've never found it for sure, but there may be a thermal switch on the
> > heater to prevent overheating. There are four wires going to the
> > heater box. The two orange ones may be the thermostat that makes the
> > heater relay drop out. (I've never traced out the entire 12V wiring
> > under the dash.)
> >
> > --Gordon Stallings--
> >
> > On Feb 26, 2013, at 3:04 PM, otedawg wrote:
> >
> > > Based on some offhand calculations, the heater is somewhere around
> > > 12Ah ish (ammeter ticks 0.01Ah every 2-3 seconds or so). I'd say
> > > somewhere around a 2000Wh heater is installed.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Josh
> > >
> > > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, theoldcars@... wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Okay that explains it. Heat on, 65 to 70 miles an hour, then
> > >> hills as
> > >> well. These types of uses really increase your load and amp hours
> > >> out of the
> > >> pack. Great that you have LiFePo4 that has the ability to do so.
> > >> Considering
> > >> an ICE would be costing a lot more for speed and hills. The only
> > >> to an ICE is the waste heat that you can use in the winter. Even
> > >> with
> > >> heater on its nice to know that an electric is still the best
> > >> energy to power a
> > >> vehicle.
> > >>
> > >> Just curious anyone know what amp load of the electric heater?
> > >>
> > >> Don Blazer
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> first 15ish miles with a lead foot, heat on high, going about
> > >> 65-70. (Left
> > >> late-er for church) Then the rest of the drive was a max speed of
> > >> 55 up and
> > >> down hills
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> In a message dated 2/26/2013 9:33:42 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
> > >> joshua.orfield@... writes:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> I did drive the first 15ish miles with a lead foot, heat on high,
> > >> going
> > >> about 65-70. (Left late-er for church) Then the rest of the drive
> > >> was a max
> > >> speed of 55 up and down hills.
> > >>
> > >> Not to hijack the thread or anything, but I do wonder if it's
> > >> normal to
> > >> hear what sounds like gears decelerating when I let off the pedal
> > >> to coast.
> > >> scrape-ish
> > >> sound coming from under the hood. I know my brakes are fine (100%
> > >> new 3 mo
> > >> ago)...
> > >>
> > >> --- In _solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
>
> > >> )
> > >> , Doug Brentlinger wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> Some people have a lead foot!
> > >>>
> > >>> doug
> > >>> 510-304-5001
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> ________________________________
> > >>> From: "theoldcars@"
> > >>> To: _solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
> > >>> )
> > >>> Sent: Mon, February 25, 2013 3:26:45 PM
> > >>> Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Re: Current Draw at Different Speeds
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> By any chance did you leave lead in the front box?
> > >>>
> > >>> Your Ah per mile seems very high
> > >>>
> > >>> Don Blazer
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> In a message dated 2/25/2013 11:03:17 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
> > >>> joshua.orfield@ writes:
> > >>>
> > >>> I just did a drive yesterday in my 96 Force with 156V 100AH CALB
> > >> Lithiums
> > >>> - pushed it to (the BMS's) limit, drove 49.8Mi, average speed 40
> > >>> mph,
> > >> used
> > >>> 73.27 Ah (counter on the dash), and got 1.47 Ah/Mile.
> > >>>
> > >>> My Force does have an AC24 and DMOC445 in it.
> > >>>
> > >>> 0-60: 12sec
> > >>> Cruise: 54 Mph (above that, and vibrations get loud)
> > >>> Top Speed: 74 Mph (Top Speed I've had it to - From my math, that's
> > >>> theoretical as well 13,000RPM)
> > >>>
> > >>> Thanks,
> > >>> Otedawg
> > >>>
> > >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
• Yes I have a think as well the new heater AFTER the heater upgrade is ptc heater drawing 4000 watts at 360 volts. The heater before hand was a water heater
Message 14 of 22 , Feb 27, 2013
Yes I have a think as well the new heater AFTER the heater upgrade is ptc heater drawing 4000 watts at 360 volts. The heater before hand was a water heater type but those failed quickly hence the recall.

On Feb 27, 2013, at 12:56 PM, Doug Brentlinger <dougb120@...> wrote:

> Thank you for replying, I've never heard of this. (lots of things I haven't
> heard of.)
>
> My Think has a resistive heater, do you think it is also ptc?
> doug
> 510-304-5001
>
> ________________________________
> From: Dexion dexion111@...>
> To: "solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com" solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wed, February 27, 2013 8:27:48 AM
> Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Re: Current Draw at Different Speeds
>
> Oh sorry positive temperature coefficient the hotter it gets the less it draws.
>
>
> On Feb 27, 2013, at 11:21 AM, Doug Brentlinger dougb120@...> wrote:
>
> > What is a ptc?
> >
> > doug
> > 510-304-5001
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Dexion dexion111@...>
> > To: "solectria_ev@yahoogroups.comsolectria_ev@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Tue, February 26, 2013 4:40:44 PM
> > Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Re: Current Draw at Different Speeds
> >
> > It's a ptc so by its nature it stops itself from overheating. I draw about
> >8amps
> >
> > after it warms up at 170volts.
> >
> > Sent from my iPad
> >
> > On Feb 26, 2013, at 7:22 PM, Gordon Stallings genki@...> wrote:
> >
> > > I just measured what I think is the heater circuit using a clamp-on
> > > hall-effect meter. (Current flows in the green & white wires only
> > > when the red light in the heater switch is on.) When first turned on,
> > > the inrush current is about 12A but it quickly stabilizes at 8A when
> > > the element warms up. This is using full pack voltage. So watts are
> > > about 180V * 8A = 1440W.
> > >
> > > I've never found it for sure, but there may be a thermal switch on the
> > > heater to prevent overheating. There are four wires going to the
> > > heater box. The two orange ones may be the thermostat that makes the
> > > heater relay drop out. (I've never traced out the entire 12V wiring
> > > under the dash.)
> > >
> > > --Gordon Stallings--
> > >
> > > On Feb 26, 2013, at 3:04 PM, otedawg wrote:
> > >
> > > > Based on some offhand calculations, the heater is somewhere around
> > > > 12Ah ish (ammeter ticks 0.01Ah every 2-3 seconds or so). I'd say
> > > > somewhere around a 2000Wh heater is installed.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Josh
> > > >
> > > > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, theoldcars@... wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> Okay that explains it. Heat on, 65 to 70 miles an hour, then
> > > >> hills as
> > > >> well. These types of uses really increase your load and amp hours
> > > >> out of the
> > > >> pack. Great that you have LiFePo4 that has the ability to do so.
> > > >> Considering
> > > >> an ICE would be costing a lot more for speed and hills. The only
> > > >> to an ICE is the waste heat that you can use in the winter. Even
> > > >> with
> > > >> heater on its nice to know that an electric is still the best
> > > >> energy to power a
> > > >> vehicle.
> > > >>
> > > >> Just curious anyone know what amp load of the electric heater?
> > > >>
> > > >> Don Blazer
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> first 15ish miles with a lead foot, heat on high, going about
> > > >> 65-70. (Left
> > > >> late-er for church) Then the rest of the drive was a max speed of
> > > >> 55 up and
> > > >> down hills
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> In a message dated 2/26/2013 9:33:42 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
> > > >> joshua.orfield@... writes:
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> I did drive the first 15ish miles with a lead foot, heat on high,
> > > >> going
> > > >> about 65-70. (Left late-er for church) Then the rest of the drive
> > > >> was a max
> > > >> speed of 55 up and down hills.
> > > >>
> > > >> Not to hijack the thread or anything, but I do wonder if it's
> > > >> normal to
> > > >> hear what sounds like gears decelerating when I let off the pedal
> > > >> to coast.
> > > >> It's about the same at all speeds, and about a 1hz slowly fading
> > > >> scrape-ish
> > > >> sound coming from under the hood. I know my brakes are fine (100%
> > > >> new 3 mo
> > > >> ago)...
> > > >>
> > > >> --- In _solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > > >> )
> > > >> , Doug Brentlinger wrote:
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Some people have a lead foot!
> > > >>>
> > > >>> doug
> > > >>> 510-304-5001
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> ________________________________
> > > >>> From: "theoldcars@"
> > > >>> To: _solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
> > > >>> )
> > > >>> Sent: Mon, February 25, 2013 3:26:45 PM
> > > >>> Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Re: Current Draw at Different Speeds
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> By any chance did you leave lead in the front box?
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Your Ah per mile seems very high
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Don Blazer
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> In a message dated 2/25/2013 11:03:17 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
> > > >>> joshua.orfield@ writes:
> > > >>>
> > > >>> I just did a drive yesterday in my 96 Force with 156V 100AH CALB
> > > >> Lithiums
> > > >>> - pushed it to (the BMS's) limit, drove 49.8Mi, average speed 40
> > > >>> mph,
> > > >> used
> > > >>> 73.27 Ah (counter on the dash), and got 1.47 Ah/Mile.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> My Force does have an AC24 and DMOC445 in it.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> 0-60: 12sec
> > > >>> Cruise: 54 Mph (above that, and vibrations get loud)
> > > >>> Top Speed: 74 Mph (Top Speed I've had it to - From my math, that's
> > > >>> theoretical as well 13,000RPM)
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Thanks,
> > > >>> Otedawg
> > > >>>
> > > >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >>>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
• Hi Otedawg- since you seem to be one of the few besides myself who still believes in BMS s... How do you prevent the DC-DC converter from over-discharging your
Message 15 of 22 , Mar 4, 2013
Hi Otedawg-

since you seem to be one of the few besides myself who still believes in BMS's...

How do you prevent the DC-DC converter from over-discharging your pack? I have no such protection. I've wired the discharge-ok signal from my eLithion to the drive-disable input on the solectria ignition box, so the drive will cut out if there are any low cells in the pack.

My fear is, of course, doing something like leaving the headlights on and leaving for a one week vacation, or something stupid like that.

//Geo

--- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "otedawg" <joshua.orfield@...> wrote:
>
> I just did a drive yesterday in my 96 Force with 156V 100AH CALB Lithiums - pushed it to (the BMS's) limit, drove 49.8Mi, average speed 40 mph, used 73.27 Ah (counter on the dash), and got 1.47 Ah/Mile.
>
> My Force does have an AC24 and DMOC445 in it.
>
> 0-60: 12sec
> Cruise: 54 Mph (above that, and vibrations get loud)
> Top Speed: 74 Mph (Top Speed I've had it to - From my math, that's theoretical as well 13,000RPM)
>
> Thanks,
> Otedawg
>
> --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "Bob" <r.strattan@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > For my '97 Force with 156 volt East Penn 8G27 lead acid batteries, a rough rule of thumb is 1 amp per mph at steady speed, level, no wind on good pavement. Thus 35 A @ 35 mph, 50 A @ 50 mph, 60 A @ 60 mph, etc.
> >
> > If you do the math that is equivalent to 1 amp*hour per mile. In reality I rarely get better than 1.2 A*H/mile overall average for a trip.
> >
> > You may want to increase the estimate accordingly to your experience. This is consistant with assuming that the road load is all rolling friction resistance, no aerodynamic drag, which is a reasonablly good assumption for urban driving. The aero drag component of current (proportional to force, torque) increases as the square of the speed and becomes dominant at high speeds, but won't have much effect below 50 mph.
> >
> > Bob Strattan
> > Tulsa, OK
> >
> > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "Michael" wrote:
> > >
> > > I'm looking for some info on current draw for a Force.
> > > How many amps does a Force draw driving on level ground, steady speed at 35 mph, 50 mph and 60 mph and specify the voltage you are running.
> > > Thanks,
> > > Michael Conn
> > >
> >
>
• Geo, I m not sure how I missed this... Right now, I don t have anything that keeps my pack from over-discharging, at all. I ve got a cleanpower miniBMS
Message 16 of 22 , Mar 15, 2013
Geo,
I'm not sure how I missed this...
Right now, I don't have anything that keeps my pack from over-discharging, at all. I've got a cleanpower miniBMS installed, and I'm still kicking myself for not installing an eLithion instead. I'd love to get the individual cell voltages out of my pack.

My BMS is only for monitoring. I'd like to know if one cell decides to go bad or if I'm lowering the voltage below the BMS defined minimum.

I don't see much of a way to do what you're thinking of unless you're prepared to part with a few (4ish) watts per hour...

My original thought would be a NO relay feeding a HV contactor tied into the input of the DCDC, with the control signal coming from the eLithion's Low Battery Line. (really, the relay isn't needed, but I take you to be more paranoid than me. :P)

BUT, there's a simpler way that doesn't waste as much power.

Just simply tying a HV Solid state relay would accomplish your purpose. You could use the same Low Battery Line to drive the relay. Something like this would be perfect.
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/D2D12/CC1041-ND/139556

I may do this once I upgrade to a eLithion.

Josh

--- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "geo_homsy2" <geo.homsy@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Otedawg-
>
> since you seem to be one of the few besides myself who still believes in BMS's...
>
> How do you prevent the DC-DC converter from over-discharging your pack? I have no such protection. I've wired the discharge-ok signal from my eLithion to the drive-disable input on the solectria ignition box, so the drive will cut out if there are any low cells in the pack.
>
> My fear is, of course, doing something like leaving the headlights on and leaving for a one week vacation, or something stupid like that.
>
> //Geo
>
>
> --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "otedawg" <joshua.orfield@> wrote:
> >
> > I just did a drive yesterday in my 96 Force with 156V 100AH CALB Lithiums - pushed it to (the BMS's) limit, drove 49.8Mi, average speed 40 mph, used 73.27 Ah (counter on the dash), and got 1.47 Ah/Mile.
> >
> > My Force does have an AC24 and DMOC445 in it.
> >
> > 0-60: 12sec
> > Cruise: 54 Mph (above that, and vibrations get loud)
> > Top Speed: 74 Mph (Top Speed I've had it to - From my math, that's theoretical as well 13,000RPM)
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Otedawg
> >
> > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "Bob" <r.strattan@> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > For my '97 Force with 156 volt East Penn 8G27 lead acid batteries, a rough rule of thumb is 1 amp per mph at steady speed, level, no wind on good pavement. Thus 35 A @ 35 mph, 50 A @ 50 mph, 60 A @ 60 mph, etc.
> > >
> > > If you do the math that is equivalent to 1 amp*hour per mile. In reality I rarely get better than 1.2 A*H/mile overall average for a trip.
> > >
> > > You may want to increase the estimate accordingly to your experience. This is consistant with assuming that the road load is all rolling friction resistance, no aerodynamic drag, which is a reasonablly good assumption for urban driving. The aero drag component of current (proportional to force, torque) increases as the square of the speed and becomes dominant at high speeds, but won't have much effect below 50 mph.
> > >
> > > Bob Strattan
> > > Tulsa, OK
> > >
> > > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "Michael" wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I'm looking for some info on current draw for a Force.
> > > > How many amps does a Force draw driving on level ground, steady speed at 35 mph, 50 mph and 60 mph and specify the voltage you are running.
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Michael Conn
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
• Hi Josh- your proposal, sadly, won t work. I wish it would. The traction pack supplies the DC-DC, which supplies the ignition switch, which supplies the BMS,
Message 17 of 22 , Mar 28, 2013
Hi Josh-

your proposal, sadly, won't work. I wish it would. The traction pack supplies the DC-DC, which supplies the ignition switch, which supplies the BMS, which asserts the "charge OK" and/or "discharge OK" signals.

If one tries to use the BMS to cut off the HV input to the DC-DC, then once you turn off the ignition, the BMS is no longer powered, hence the DC-DC is no longer powered, hence no more power to the ignition switch, hence you can never switch the car on again.

One common method is to have a small additional 12 volt cell, for activating the BMS initially. I've been trying to avoid this.

Still lookin'... :)

And yeah, I'm paranoid. Don't want to zorch 7000 bucks worth of batteries by leaving my headlights on. This is a high-stakes game...

//Geo

--- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "otedawg" <joshua.orfield@...> wrote:
>
> Geo,
> I'm not sure how I missed this...
> Right now, I don't have anything that keeps my pack from over-discharging, at all. I've got a cleanpower miniBMS installed, and I'm still kicking myself for not installing an eLithion instead. I'd love to get the individual cell voltages out of my pack.
>
> My BMS is only for monitoring. I'd like to know if one cell decides to go bad or if I'm lowering the voltage below the BMS defined minimum.
>
> I don't see much of a way to do what you're thinking of unless you're prepared to part with a few (4ish) watts per hour...
>
> My original thought would be a NO relay feeding a HV contactor tied into the input of the DCDC, with the control signal coming from the eLithion's Low Battery Line. (really, the relay isn't needed, but I take you to be more paranoid than me. :P)
>
> BUT, there's a simpler way that doesn't waste as much power.
>
> Just simply tying a HV Solid state relay would accomplish your purpose. You could use the same Low Battery Line to drive the relay. Something like this would be perfect.
> http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/D2D12/CC1041-ND/139556
>
> I may do this once I upgrade to a eLithion.
>
> Josh
>
>
>
> --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "geo_homsy2" <geo.homsy@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Otedawg-
> >
> > since you seem to be one of the few besides myself who still believes in BMS's...
> >
> > How do you prevent the DC-DC converter from over-discharging your pack? I have no such protection. I've wired the discharge-ok signal from my eLithion to the drive-disable input on the solectria ignition box, so the drive will cut out if there are any low cells in the pack.
> >
> > My fear is, of course, doing something like leaving the headlights on and leaving for a one week vacation, or something stupid like that.
> >
> > //Geo
> >
> >
> > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "otedawg" <joshua.orfield@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I just did a drive yesterday in my 96 Force with 156V 100AH CALB Lithiums - pushed it to (the BMS's) limit, drove 49.8Mi, average speed 40 mph, used 73.27 Ah (counter on the dash), and got 1.47 Ah/Mile.
> > >
> > > My Force does have an AC24 and DMOC445 in it.
> > >
> > > 0-60: 12sec
> > > Cruise: 54 Mph (above that, and vibrations get loud)
> > > Top Speed: 74 Mph (Top Speed I've had it to - From my math, that's theoretical as well 13,000RPM)
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Otedawg
> > >
> > > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "Bob" <r.strattan@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > For my '97 Force with 156 volt East Penn 8G27 lead acid batteries, a rough rule of thumb is 1 amp per mph at steady speed, level, no wind on good pavement. Thus 35 A @ 35 mph, 50 A @ 50 mph, 60 A @ 60 mph, etc.
> > > >
> > > > If you do the math that is equivalent to 1 amp*hour per mile. In reality I rarely get better than 1.2 A*H/mile overall average for a trip.
> > > >
> > > > You may want to increase the estimate accordingly to your experience. This is consistant with assuming that the road load is all rolling friction resistance, no aerodynamic drag, which is a reasonablly good assumption for urban driving. The aero drag component of current (proportional to force, torque) increases as the square of the speed and becomes dominant at high speeds, but won't have much effect below 50 mph.
> > > >
> > > > Bob Strattan
> > > > Tulsa, OK
> > > >
> > > > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "Michael" wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm looking for some info on current draw for a Force.
> > > > > How many amps does a Force draw driving on level ground, steady speed at 35 mph, 50 mph and 60 mph and specify the voltage you are running.
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > Michael Conn
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
• Geo, I was assuming that you would be plugged into the wall, which I now see isn t a good assumption. The Elithion does supply 12V... It seems like this would
Message 18 of 22 , Mar 29, 2013
Geo,
I was assuming that you would be plugged into the wall, which I now see isn't a good assumption. The Elithion does supply 12V...

It seems like this would have to be done at the controller or the BMS level. Somehow closing a switch based on the SOC of the HV pack should be possible.

Now that I think about it, if you wanted to spend more cash you could do it - just add another DC-DC, an arduino /uC with a relay shield, some sort of opto-isolated HV probe for the arduino, and the solid state switch.

Again, I would think that this should be done at the BMS level.

This way you could disable the input to the main DC-DC based on a voltage level of the HV pack.

I'd just say don't leave the headlights on. :P

-Josh

--- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "geo_homsy2" <geo.homsy@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Josh-
>
> your proposal, sadly, won't work. I wish it would. The traction pack supplies the DC-DC, which supplies the ignition switch, which supplies the BMS, which asserts the "charge OK" and/or "discharge OK" signals.
>
> If one tries to use the BMS to cut off the HV input to the DC-DC, then once you turn off the ignition, the BMS is no longer powered, hence the DC-DC is no longer powered, hence no more power to the ignition switch, hence you can never switch the car on again.
>
> One common method is to have a small additional 12 volt cell, for activating the BMS initially. I've been trying to avoid this.
>
> Still lookin'... :)
>
> And yeah, I'm paranoid. Don't want to zorch 7000 bucks worth of batteries by leaving my headlights on. This is a high-stakes game...
>
> //Geo
>
> --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "otedawg" <joshua.orfield@> wrote:
> >
> > Geo,
> > I'm not sure how I missed this...
> > Right now, I don't have anything that keeps my pack from over-discharging, at all. I've got a cleanpower miniBMS installed, and I'm still kicking myself for not installing an eLithion instead. I'd love to get the individual cell voltages out of my pack.
> >
> > My BMS is only for monitoring. I'd like to know if one cell decides to go bad or if I'm lowering the voltage below the BMS defined minimum.
> >
> > I don't see much of a way to do what you're thinking of unless you're prepared to part with a few (4ish) watts per hour...
> >
> > My original thought would be a NO relay feeding a HV contactor tied into the input of the DCDC, with the control signal coming from the eLithion's Low Battery Line. (really, the relay isn't needed, but I take you to be more paranoid than me. :P)
> >
> > BUT, there's a simpler way that doesn't waste as much power.
> >
> > Just simply tying a HV Solid state relay would accomplish your purpose. You could use the same Low Battery Line to drive the relay. Something like this would be perfect.
> > http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/D2D12/CC1041-ND/139556
> >
> > I may do this once I upgrade to a eLithion.
> >
> > Josh
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "geo_homsy2" <geo.homsy@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Otedawg-
> > >
> > > since you seem to be one of the few besides myself who still believes in BMS's...
> > >
> > > How do you prevent the DC-DC converter from over-discharging your pack? I have no such protection. I've wired the discharge-ok signal from my eLithion to the drive-disable input on the solectria ignition box, so the drive will cut out if there are any low cells in the pack.
> > >
> > > My fear is, of course, doing something like leaving the headlights on and leaving for a one week vacation, or something stupid like that.
> > >
> > > //Geo
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "otedawg" <joshua.orfield@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I just did a drive yesterday in my 96 Force with 156V 100AH CALB Lithiums - pushed it to (the BMS's) limit, drove 49.8Mi, average speed 40 mph, used 73.27 Ah (counter on the dash), and got 1.47 Ah/Mile.
> > > >
> > > > My Force does have an AC24 and DMOC445 in it.
> > > >
> > > > 0-60: 12sec
> > > > Cruise: 54 Mph (above that, and vibrations get loud)
> > > > Top Speed: 74 Mph (Top Speed I've had it to - From my math, that's theoretical as well 13,000RPM)
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Otedawg
> > > >
> > > > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "Bob" <r.strattan@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > For my '97 Force with 156 volt East Penn 8G27 lead acid batteries, a rough rule of thumb is 1 amp per mph at steady speed, level, no wind on good pavement. Thus 35 A @ 35 mph, 50 A @ 50 mph, 60 A @ 60 mph, etc.
> > > > >
> > > > > If you do the math that is equivalent to 1 amp*hour per mile. In reality I rarely get better than 1.2 A*H/mile overall average for a trip.
> > > > >
> > > > > You may want to increase the estimate accordingly to your experience. This is consistant with assuming that the road load is all rolling friction resistance, no aerodynamic drag, which is a reasonablly good assumption for urban driving. The aero drag component of current (proportional to force, torque) increases as the square of the speed and becomes dominant at high speeds, but won't have much effect below 50 mph.
> > > > >
> > > > > Bob Strattan
> > > > > Tulsa, OK
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "Michael" wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'm looking for some info on current draw for a Force.
> > > > > > How many amps does a Force draw driving on level ground, steady speed at 35 mph, 50 mph and 60 mph and specify the voltage you are running.
> > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > Michael Conn
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
• Hello all, I know this is an old thread... but I just saw it the other day when someone else posted something on it. About a year ago I put half of a volt
Message 19 of 22 , Jan 24, 2014

Hello all, I know this is an old thread... but I just saw it the other day when someone else posted something on it.  About a year ago I put half of a volt pack in my solectria (running 200V at top of charge).  I too used the elithion BMS and wanted a separation of the traction and DC/DC converter power.  So I built a simple analog UVLO circuit to put inline with the DC/DC converter HV feed.  See attached photos.  If anyone is interested I can share the schematic etc...   The circuit works great, I have put quite a few miles on it and luckily I have never activated the UVLO, but I did test it to make sure it's effective.

In the photos see album titled "UVLO circuit...." it is potted in SilGuard because it is installed underhood.  The scope plot shows input v and output v.  Output is the one that cuts in and cuts out based on input voltage.  It also has some hysteresis to prevent oscillation.  The circuit is installed in the positive power line of the DC/DC input.

Cheers,

Josh

• yes, I would like to see the schematic if you can find it.
Message 20 of 22 , Jan 24, 2014
yes, I would like to see the schematic if you can find it.

--- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, <josh@...> wrote:
>
> Hello all, I know this is an old thread... but I just saw it the other day when someone else posted something on it. About a year ago I put half of a volt pack in my solectria (running 200V at top of charge). I too used the elithion BMS and wanted a separation of the traction and DC/DC converter power. So I built a simple analog UVLO circuit to put inline with the DC/DC converter HV feed. See attached photos. If anyone is interested I can share the schematic etc... The circuit works great, I have put quite a few miles on it and luckily I have never activated the UVLO, but I did test it to make sure it's effective.
>
>
> In the photos see album titled "UVLO circuit...." it is potted in SilGuard because it is installed underhood. The scope plot shows input v and output v. Output is the one that cuts in and cuts out based on input voltage. It also has some hysteresis to prevent oscillation. The circuit is installed in the positive power line of the DC/DC input.
>
>
> Cheers,
> Josh
>
• I have added the schematic and a simulation result to the photos folder. Please review and ask any questions that come to mind. Cheers, Josh
Message 21 of 22 , Jan 24, 2014

I have added the schematic and a simulation result to the photos folder.  Please review and ask any questions that come to mind.

Cheers,

Josh

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