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Re: 1999 Force jerking in acceleration

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  • Sean K
    So after cleaning my contacts a couple times, printing out a 48 line encoder on my laser printer and gluing it to my encoder disc, and adjusting the gap
    Message 1 of 27 , Nov 18, 2012
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      So after cleaning my contacts a couple times, printing out a 48 line encoder on my laser printer and gluing it to my encoder disc, and adjusting the gap between the sensor and the disc I was able to drive my force around the block (YAY!), however at that point the paper managed to come loose enough to get caught on the edge of the sensor board and come completely off the disc. I would like to come up with a new encoder disc but after really seeing how close the sensor is the thought of having a slotted one cut out on a CNC machine makes me a little nervous.

      Has anyone here actually made a new encoder disc? So far I'm thinking the idea of doing a toner transfer sounds like the best bet to me but if anyone has any hands on experience I'd like to know.

      Also I was noticing that the back of my encoder disk is pretty marred up like maybe it was rubbing on something, is this typical?

      Thanks,
      -Sean

      --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, kevin lubot <dexion111@...> wrote:
      >
      > it spins damn fast make sure to balance it.
      >
      >
      >
      > ________________________________
      > From: Rex Allison <ev64bug@...>
      > To: "solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com" <solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com>
      > Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 12:57 PM
      > Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Re: 1999 Force jerking in acceleration
      >
      >
      >
      >  
      >
      > Are you referring to cutting (machining) slots where the black stripes are on a disk? Slots should work because the optical sensing is with a reflective photo interrupter and the black absorbs the IR light and the bare aluminum is used to reflect the light. I'm not sure anyone has tried this yet.
      >
      > ________________________________
      > From: Sean K <mailto:seankmc%40gmail.com>
      > To: mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 9:10 AM
      > Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: 1999 Force jerking in acceleration
      >
      >
      >  
      > So the latest news on my Force, reverse seems to work fine, forward still feels like the motor is having seizures. I'm arranging to have it towed home from the shop tomorrow and once I get it home I'll be spending some quality time checking connectors.
      >
      > I'm still not crazy about my speed sensor encoder being "fixed" with sharpie and so unless there's an obvious continuity problem I think I'd like to try making a new encoder disc. Jack Mottley had an idea to use a toner transfer and iron the pattern on, I'm thinking maybe I could cut a new disc out of some aluminum flashing. Has anyone tried anything like this before?
      >
      > --- In mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com, Rex Allison <ev64bug@> wrote:
      > >
      > > I've had my '96 Force for seven years and last year I had that symptom of slow creeping and pulsation. It just happened once early in the morning (I think around this time of year) then it went away. It happened again this Friday. I was thinking of the contact cleaner but looking at how corroded the connector shells were I just replaced both DB9 connectors. I used solder cup DB9 connectors with machine pins. It is a little tricky since the cable is actually 10 wire ribbon cable folded into a circle. To solder ribbon cable you have to separate the wires and strip back the insulation. Also ribbon cable insulation melts at a fairly low temperature so you have to solder quickly.
      > >
      > > The original connectors are a ribbon to DB9 connector. This is an mass termination connector that uses insulation displacement to make contact with the conductors in the ribbon cable. I've always been uncomfortable with ribbon cable connectors. I've crimped the connectors and found not all the connections were made, then compressed the connector again and they seem to make connections, but I lack confidence in the quality of the connection. This may be due to my lack of skill, but I prefer crimp pins or solder cup because you can visually inspect the connections.
      > >
      > >
      > > Anyway I am still guessing that it was the connectors at this point and not the encoder/board so I'll just have to see.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > ________________________________
      > > From: Sean K <seankmc@>
      > > To: mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com
      > > Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2012 8:07 PM
      > > Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: 1999 Force jerking in acceleration
      > >
      > >
      > >  
      > > Cool, I'll have to wait until Monday to get into the shop where the car is currently but I'll take some contact cleaner with me and hopefully that will help.
      > >
      > > Just out of curiousity if the board is damaged is there anyone out there who has a replacement? I think I was reading in another post that someone was considering designing a new one? Did that ever come together?
      > >
      > > --- In mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com, Charles Bliss <cbliss@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > I have had it happen 3 times. First time, I used dielectric grease on
      > > > the DB9/25 connectors. Most recently used Deoxit Gold. It is working
      > > > OK at the moment.
      > > > On the most recent time, it would go forward, but not backwards. Clean
      > > > and Deoxit fixed that.
      > > > On 9/22/2012 10:52 AM, Ray Darby wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > If it just creeps ever so slowly with a slight pulsation, it could be
      > > > > a bad connection on the DB9 &/or DB25 connectors....this problem
      > > > > (intermittent in my case)...
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
    • Gordon Stallings
      One approach to the problem would be to replace the Solectria encoder with a commercial unit. Grayhill makes a line of incremental encoders that look like
      Message 2 of 27 , Nov 19, 2012
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        One approach to the problem would be to replace the Solectria encoder
        with a commercial unit.

        Grayhill makes a line of incremental encoders that look like
        potentiometers. Such a unit would need to be belt-driven from the
        motor's shaft.

        Browsing the internet, I found numerous incremental encoders (we don't
        want absolute). For example:

        Here's a hollow center one:
        http://www.usdigital.com/products/encoders/incremental/rotary/hollow-bore/HB6M#description

        Go here to browse their entire line:
        http://www.usdigital.com/products/encoders?gclid=CMXHgpvMkLMCFcaiPAodWEcARg

        Quantum Devices will send a free model of a shaft encoder for use in
        designing the mount:
        http://www.quantumdev.com/?gclid=COey8NjRkLMCFUWnPAodVnMA4w

        Here's another company's product. This one appears to be industrial
        quality. So it is probably quite expensive and may be difficult to
        interface electrically:
        http://www.dynapar.com/Products_and_Solutions/Series_HS35R_Sealed_Hollowshaft_Encoder/

        Here's one for Vex. It takes the square shaft. Probably much cheaper
        and easy to interface. But probably not rugged enough for this
        application.
        http://www.education.rec.ri.cmu.edu/products/teaching_robotc_cortex/reference/shaft_ig.pdf

        --Gordon Stallings--
        On Nov 18, 2012, at 10:35 PM, Sean K wrote:

        > So after cleaning my contacts a couple times, printing out a 48 line
        > encoder on my laser printer and gluing it to my encoder disc, and
        > adjusting the gap between the sensor and the disc I was able to
        > drive my force around the block (YAY!), however at that point the
        > paper managed to come loose enough to get caught on the edge of the
        > sensor board and come completely off the disc. I would like to come
        > up with a new encoder disc but after really seeing how close the
        > sensor is the thought of having a slotted one cut out on a CNC
        > machine makes me a little nervous.
        >
        > Has anyone here actually made a new encoder disc? So far I'm
        > thinking the idea of doing a toner transfer sounds like the best bet
        > to me but if anyone has any hands on experience I'd like to know.
        >
        > Also I was noticing that the back of my encoder disk is pretty
        > marred up like maybe it was rubbing on something, is this typical?
        >
        > Thanks,
        > -Sean
        >
        > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, kevin lubot <dexion111@...>
        > wrote:
        >>
        >> it spins damn fast make sure to balance it.
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >> ________________________________
        >> From: Rex Allison <ev64bug@...>
        >> To: "solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com" <solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com>
        >> Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 12:57 PM
        >> Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Re: 1999 Force jerking in acceleration
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >> Â
        >>
        >> Are you referring to cutting (machining) slots where the black
        >> stripes are on a disk? Slots should work because the optical
        >> sensing is with a reflective photo interrupter and the black
        >> absorbs the IR light and the bare aluminum is used to reflect the
        >> light. I'm not sure anyone has tried this yet.
        >>
        >> ________________________________
        >> From: Sean K <mailto:seankmc%40gmail.com>
        >> To: mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com
        >> Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 9:10 AM
        >> Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: 1999 Force jerking in acceleration
        >>
        >>
        >> Â
        >> So the latest news on my Force, reverse seems to work fine, forward
        >> still feels like the motor is having seizures. I'm arranging to
        >> have it towed home from the shop tomorrow and once I get it home
        >> I'll be spending some quality time checking connectors.
        >>
        >> I'm still not crazy about my speed sensor encoder being "fixed"
        >> with sharpie and so unless there's an obvious continuity problem I
        >> think I'd like to try making a new encoder disc. Jack Mottley had
        >> an idea to use a toner transfer and iron the pattern on, I'm
        >> thinking maybe I could cut a new disc out of some aluminum
        >> flashing. Has anyone tried anything like this before?
        >>
        >> --- In mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com, Rex Allison
        >> <ev64bug@> wrote:
        >>>
        >>> I've had my '96 Force for seven years and last year I had that
        >>> symptom of slow creeping and pulsation. It just happened once
        >>> early in the morning (I think around this time of year) then it
        >>> went away. It happened again this Friday. I was thinking of the
        >>> contact cleaner but looking at how corroded the connector shells
        >>> were I just replaced both DB9 connectors. I used solder cup DB9
        >>> connectors with machine pins. It is a little tricky since the
        >>> cable is actually 10 wire ribbon cable folded into a circle. To
        >>> solder ribbon cable you have to separate the wires and strip back
        >>> the insulation. Also ribbon cable insulation melts at a fairly low
        >>> temperature so you have to solder quickly.
        >>>
        >>> The original connectors are a ribbon to DB9 connector. This is an
        >>> mass termination connector that uses insulation displacement to
        >>> make contact with the conductors in the ribbon cable. I've always
        >>> been uncomfortable with ribbon cable connectors. I've crimped the
        >>> connectors and found not all the connections were made, then
        >>> compressed the connector again and they seem to make connections,
        >>> but I lack confidence in the quality of the connection. This may
        >>> be due to my lack of skill, but I prefer crimp pins or solder cup
        >>> because you can visually inspect the connections.
        >>>
        >>>
        >>> Anyway I am still guessing that it was the connectors at this
        >>> point and not the encoder/board so I'll just have to see.
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>> ________________________________
        >>> From: Sean K <seankmc@>
        >>> To: mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com
        >>> Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2012 8:07 PM
        >>> Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: 1999 Force jerking in acceleration
        >>>
        >>>
        >>> ÂÂ
        >>> Cool, I'll have to wait until Monday to get into the shop where
        >>> the car is currently but I'll take some contact cleaner with me
        >>> and hopefully that will help.
        >>>
        >>> Just out of curiousity if the board is damaged is there anyone out
        >>> there who has a replacement? I think I was reading in another post
        >>> that someone was considering designing a new one? Did that ever
        >>> come together?
        >>>
        >>> --- In mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com, Charles Bliss
        >>> <cbliss@> wrote:
        >>>>
        >>>> I have had it happen 3 times. First time, I used dielectric
        >>>> grease on
        >>>> the DB9/25 connectors. Most recently used Deoxit Gold. It is
        >>>> working
        >>>> OK at the moment.
        >>>> On the most recent time, it would go forward, but not backwards.
        >>>> Clean
        >>>> and Deoxit fixed that.
        >>>> On 9/22/2012 10:52 AM, Ray Darby wrote:
        >>>>>
        >>>>> If it just creeps ever so slowly with a slight pulsation, it
        >>>>> could be
        >>>>> a bad connection on the DB9 &/or DB25 connectors....this problem
        >>>>> (intermittent in my case)...
        >>>>>
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >>>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >>>
        >>
        >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >>
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
      • Wolf
        Take your 48 line encoder file over to your local T-shirt printing shop, and have them silk screen it on the back side of your encoder disk. It should not rub
        Message 3 of 27 , Nov 19, 2012
        • 0 Attachment
          Take your 48 line encoder file over to your local T-shirt printing shop,
          and have them silk screen it on the back side of your encoder disk.

          It should not rub on anything, you might want to check the bearing runout
          on you motor.
          On Nov 18, 2012 10:35 PM, "Sean K" <seankmc@...> wrote:

          > **
          >
          >
          > So after cleaning my contacts a couple times, printing out a 48 line
          > encoder on my laser printer and gluing it to my encoder disc, and adjusting
          > the gap between the sensor and the disc I was able to drive my force around
          > the block (YAY!), however at that point the paper managed to come loose
          > enough to get caught on the edge of the sensor board and come completely
          > off the disc. I would like to come up with a new encoder disc but after
          > really seeing how close the sensor is the thought of having a slotted one
          > cut out on a CNC machine makes me a little nervous.
          >
          > Has anyone here actually made a new encoder disc? So far I'm thinking the
          > idea of doing a toner transfer sounds like the best bet to me but if anyone
          > has any hands on experience I'd like to know.
          >
          > Also I was noticing that the back of my encoder disk is pretty marred up
          > like maybe it was rubbing on something, is this typical?
          >
          > Thanks,
          > -Sean
          >
          > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, kevin lubot <dexion111@...> wrote:
          > >
          > > it spins damn fast make sure to balance it.
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > ________________________________
          > > From: Rex Allison <ev64bug@...>
          > > To: "solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com" <solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com>
          > > Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 12:57 PM
          > > Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Re: 1999 Force jerking in acceleration
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > �
          > >
          > > Are you referring to cutting (machining) slots where the black stripes
          > are on a disk? Slots should work because the optical sensing is with a
          > reflective photo interrupter and the black absorbs the IR light and the
          > bare aluminum is used to reflect the light. I'm not sure anyone has tried
          > this yet.
          > >
          > > ________________________________
          > > From: Sean K <mailto:seankmc%40gmail.com>
          > > To: mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com
          > > Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 9:10 AM
          > > Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: 1999 Force jerking in acceleration
          > >
          > >
          > > �
          > > So the latest news on my Force, reverse seems to work fine, forward
          > still feels like the motor is having seizures. I'm arranging to have it
          > towed home from the shop tomorrow and once I get it home I'll be spending
          > some quality time checking connectors.
          > >
          > > I'm still not crazy about my speed sensor encoder being "fixed" with
          > sharpie and so unless there's an obvious continuity problem I think I'd
          > like to try making a new encoder disc. Jack Mottley had an idea to use a
          > toner transfer and iron the pattern on, I'm thinking maybe I could cut a
          > new disc out of some aluminum flashing. Has anyone tried anything like this
          > before?
          > >
          > > --- In mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com, Rex Allison <ev64bug@>
          > wrote:
          > > >
          > > > I've had my '96 Force for seven years and last year I had that symptom
          > of slow creeping and pulsation. It just happened once early in the morning
          > (I think around this time of year) then it went away. It happened again
          > this Friday. I was thinking of the contact cleaner but looking at how
          > corroded the connector shells were I just replaced both DB9 connectors. I
          > used solder cup DB9 connectors with machine pins. It is a little tricky
          > since the cable is actually 10 wire ribbon cable folded into a circle. To
          > solder ribbon cable you have to separate the wires and strip back the
          > insulation. Also ribbon cable insulation melts at a fairly low temperature
          > so you have to solder quickly.
          > > >
          > > > The original connectors are a ribbon to DB9 connector. This is an mass
          > termination connector that uses insulation displacement to make contact
          > with the conductors in the ribbon cable. I've always been uncomfortable
          > with ribbon cable connectors. I've crimped the connectors and found not all
          > the connections were made, then compressed the connector again and they
          > seem to make connections, but I lack confidence in the quality of the
          > connection. This may be due to my lack of skill, but I prefer crimp pins or
          > solder cup because you can visually inspect the connections.
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > Anyway I am still guessing that it was the connectors at this point
          > and not the encoder/board so I'll just have to see.
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > ________________________________
          > > > From: Sean K <seankmc@>
          > > > To: mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com
          > > > Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2012 8:07 PM
          > > > Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: 1999 Force jerking in acceleration
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > ���
          > > > Cool, I'll have to wait until Monday to get into the shop where the
          > car is currently but I'll take some contact cleaner with me and hopefully
          > that will help.
          > > >
          > > > Just out of curiousity if the board is damaged is there anyone out
          > there who has a replacement? I think I was reading in another post that
          > someone was considering designing a new one? Did that ever come together?
          > > >
          > > > --- In mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com, Charles Bliss <cbliss@>
          > wrote:
          > > > >
          > > > > I have had it happen 3 times. First time, I used dielectric grease
          > on
          > > > > the DB9/25 connectors. Most recently used Deoxit Gold. It is working
          > > > > OK at the moment.
          > > > > On the most recent time, it would go forward, but not backwards.
          > Clean
          > > > > and Deoxit fixed that.
          > > > > On 9/22/2012 10:52 AM, Ray Darby wrote:
          > > > > >
          > > > > > If it just creeps ever so slowly with a slight pulsation, it could
          > be
          > > > > > a bad connection on the DB9 &/or DB25 connectors....this problem
          > > > > > (intermittent in my case)...
          > > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > > >
          > >
          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          >
          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • geo_homsy2
          Wolf- have you actually done this successfully? A long while back, I actually experimented with the reflectivity of MANY media in the near-IR spectrum. It
          Message 4 of 27 , Nov 19, 2012
          • 0 Attachment
            Wolf- have you actually done this successfully?

            A long while back, I actually experimented with the reflectivity of MANY media in the near-IR spectrum.

            It turns out, what looks black is not necessarily black. Media vary quite a bit (say, 5 to 10x). Some of them are pretty shiny in the IR.

            So beware, Sean, of glossy black inks. May or may not work.

            --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, Wolf <wolf@...> wrote:
            >
            > Take your 48 line encoder file over to your local T-shirt printing shop,
            > and have them silk screen it on the back side of your encoder disk.
            >
            > It should not rub on anything, you might want to check the bearing runout
            > on you motor.
            > On Nov 18, 2012 10:35 PM, "Sean K" <seankmc@...> wrote:
            >
            > > **
            > >
            > >
            > > So after cleaning my contacts a couple times, printing out a 48 line
            > > encoder on my laser printer and gluing it to my encoder disc, and adjusting
            > > the gap between the sensor and the disc I was able to drive my force around
            > > the block (YAY!), however at that point the paper managed to come loose
            > > enough to get caught on the edge of the sensor board and come completely
            > > off the disc. I would like to come up with a new encoder disc but after
            > > really seeing how close the sensor is the thought of having a slotted one
            > > cut out on a CNC machine makes me a little nervous.
            > >
            > > Has anyone here actually made a new encoder disc? So far I'm thinking the
            > > idea of doing a toner transfer sounds like the best bet to me but if anyone
            > > has any hands on experience I'd like to know.
            > >
            > > Also I was noticing that the back of my encoder disk is pretty marred up
            > > like maybe it was rubbing on something, is this typical?
            > >
            > > Thanks,
            > > -Sean
            > >
            > > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, kevin lubot <dexion111@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > it spins damn fast make sure to balance it.
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > ________________________________
            > > > From: Rex Allison <ev64bug@>
            > > > To: "solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com" <solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com>
            > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 12:57 PM
            > > > Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Re: 1999 Force jerking in acceleration
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Â
            > > >
            > > > Are you referring to cutting (machining) slots where the black stripes
            > > are on a disk? Slots should work because the optical sensing is with a
            > > reflective photo interrupter and the black absorbs the IR light and the
            > > bare aluminum is used to reflect the light. I'm not sure anyone has tried
            > > this yet.
            > > >
            > > > ________________________________
            > > > From: Sean K <mailto:seankmc%40gmail.com>
            > > > To: mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com
            > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 9:10 AM
            > > > Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: 1999 Force jerking in acceleration
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Â
            > > > So the latest news on my Force, reverse seems to work fine, forward
            > > still feels like the motor is having seizures. I'm arranging to have it
            > > towed home from the shop tomorrow and once I get it home I'll be spending
            > > some quality time checking connectors.
            > > >
            > > > I'm still not crazy about my speed sensor encoder being "fixed" with
            > > sharpie and so unless there's an obvious continuity problem I think I'd
            > > like to try making a new encoder disc. Jack Mottley had an idea to use a
            > > toner transfer and iron the pattern on, I'm thinking maybe I could cut a
            > > new disc out of some aluminum flashing. Has anyone tried anything like this
            > > before?
            > > >
            > > > --- In mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com, Rex Allison <ev64bug@>
            > > wrote:
            > > > >
            > > > > I've had my '96 Force for seven years and last year I had that symptom
            > > of slow creeping and pulsation. It just happened once early in the morning
            > > (I think around this time of year) then it went away. It happened again
            > > this Friday. I was thinking of the contact cleaner but looking at how
            > > corroded the connector shells were I just replaced both DB9 connectors. I
            > > used solder cup DB9 connectors with machine pins. It is a little tricky
            > > since the cable is actually 10 wire ribbon cable folded into a circle. To
            > > solder ribbon cable you have to separate the wires and strip back the
            > > insulation. Also ribbon cable insulation melts at a fairly low temperature
            > > so you have to solder quickly.
            > > > >
            > > > > The original connectors are a ribbon to DB9 connector. This is an mass
            > > termination connector that uses insulation displacement to make contact
            > > with the conductors in the ribbon cable. I've always been uncomfortable
            > > with ribbon cable connectors. I've crimped the connectors and found not all
            > > the connections were made, then compressed the connector again and they
            > > seem to make connections, but I lack confidence in the quality of the
            > > connection. This may be due to my lack of skill, but I prefer crimp pins or
            > > solder cup because you can visually inspect the connections.
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > Anyway I am still guessing that it was the connectors at this point
            > > and not the encoder/board so I'll just have to see.
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > ________________________________
            > > > > From: Sean K <seankmc@>
            > > > > To: mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com
            > > > > Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2012 8:07 PM
            > > > > Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: 1999 Force jerking in acceleration
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > ÂÂ
            > > > > Cool, I'll have to wait until Monday to get into the shop where the
            > > car is currently but I'll take some contact cleaner with me and hopefully
            > > that will help.
            > > > >
            > > > > Just out of curiousity if the board is damaged is there anyone out
            > > there who has a replacement? I think I was reading in another post that
            > > someone was considering designing a new one? Did that ever come together?
            > > > >
            > > > > --- In mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com, Charles Bliss <cbliss@>
            > > wrote:
            > > > > >
            > > > > > I have had it happen 3 times. First time, I used dielectric grease
            > > on
            > > > > > the DB9/25 connectors. Most recently used Deoxit Gold. It is working
            > > > > > OK at the moment.
            > > > > > On the most recent time, it would go forward, but not backwards.
            > > Clean
            > > > > > and Deoxit fixed that.
            > > > > > On 9/22/2012 10:52 AM, Ray Darby wrote:
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > If it just creeps ever so slowly with a slight pulsation, it could
            > > be
            > > > > > > a bad connection on the DB9 &/or DB25 connectors....this problem
            > > > > > > (intermittent in my case)...
            > > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > > > >
            > > >
            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • geo_homsy2
            Why are you nervous about the CNC machining? The encoder gap is perhaps 1 to 3mm, right? Shouldn t be any problem... Another idea (though I notice you ve
            Message 5 of 27 , Nov 19, 2012
            • 0 Attachment
              Why are you nervous about the CNC machining? The encoder gap is perhaps 1 to 3mm, right? Shouldn't be any problem...

              Another idea (though I notice you've received a lot of them) is to use a pigment-inlay technique. Machine the slots, but only 0.5mm to 1mm deep. With squeegy ready, spray the whole disk with flat black spraypaint. Then wipe.

              If there's any streaks left over, clean them up by hand with a Q-tip.

              Like some others presenting ideas, I haven't actually done this. I'm just adding another item for consideration :)

              Let us know how you make out!

              //Geo

              P.S.: Be aware of my other posting: Spray paints and other "black" things may not be black in the near IR...


              --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "Sean K" <seankmc@...> wrote:
              >
              > So after cleaning my contacts a couple times, printing out a 48 line encoder on my laser printer and gluing it to my encoder disc, and adjusting the gap between the sensor and the disc I was able to drive my force around the block (YAY!), however at that point the paper managed to come loose enough to get caught on the edge of the sensor board and come completely off the disc. I would like to come up with a new encoder disc but after really seeing how close the sensor is the thought of having a slotted one cut out on a CNC machine makes me a little nervous.
              >
              > Has anyone here actually made a new encoder disc? So far I'm thinking the idea of doing a toner transfer sounds like the best bet to me but if anyone has any hands on experience I'd like to know.
              >
              > Also I was noticing that the back of my encoder disk is pretty marred up like maybe it was rubbing on something, is this typical?
              >
              > Thanks,
              > -Sean
              >
              > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, kevin lubot <dexion111@> wrote:
              > >
              > > it spins damn fast make sure to balance it.
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > ________________________________
              > > From: Rex Allison <ev64bug@>
              > > To: "solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com" <solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com>
              > > Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 12:57 PM
              > > Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Re: 1999 Force jerking in acceleration
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >  
              > >
              > > Are you referring to cutting (machining) slots where the black stripes are on a disk? Slots should work because the optical sensing is with a reflective photo interrupter and the black absorbs the IR light and the bare aluminum is used to reflect the light. I'm not sure anyone has tried this yet.
              > >
              > > ________________________________
              > > From: Sean K <mailto:seankmc%40gmail.com>
              > > To: mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com
              > > Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 9:10 AM
              > > Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: 1999 Force jerking in acceleration
              > >
              > >
              > >  
              > > So the latest news on my Force, reverse seems to work fine, forward still feels like the motor is having seizures. I'm arranging to have it towed home from the shop tomorrow and once I get it home I'll be spending some quality time checking connectors.
              > >
              > > I'm still not crazy about my speed sensor encoder being "fixed" with sharpie and so unless there's an obvious continuity problem I think I'd like to try making a new encoder disc. Jack Mottley had an idea to use a toner transfer and iron the pattern on, I'm thinking maybe I could cut a new disc out of some aluminum flashing. Has anyone tried anything like this before?
              > >
              > > --- In mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com, Rex Allison <ev64bug@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > I've had my '96 Force for seven years and last year I had that symptom of slow creeping and pulsation. It just happened once early in the morning (I think around this time of year) then it went away. It happened again this Friday. I was thinking of the contact cleaner but looking at how corroded the connector shells were I just replaced both DB9 connectors. I used solder cup DB9 connectors with machine pins. It is a little tricky since the cable is actually 10 wire ribbon cable folded into a circle. To solder ribbon cable you have to separate the wires and strip back the insulation. Also ribbon cable insulation melts at a fairly low temperature so you have to solder quickly.
              > > >
              > > > The original connectors are a ribbon to DB9 connector. This is an mass termination connector that uses insulation displacement to make contact with the conductors in the ribbon cable. I've always been uncomfortable with ribbon cable connectors. I've crimped the connectors and found not all the connections were made, then compressed the connector again and they seem to make connections, but I lack confidence in the quality of the connection. This may be due to my lack of skill, but I prefer crimp pins or solder cup because you can visually inspect the connections.
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Anyway I am still guessing that it was the connectors at this point and not the encoder/board so I'll just have to see.
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > ________________________________
              > > > From: Sean K <seankmc@>
              > > > To: mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com
              > > > Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2012 8:07 PM
              > > > Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: 1999 Force jerking in acceleration
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >  
              > > > Cool, I'll have to wait until Monday to get into the shop where the car is currently but I'll take some contact cleaner with me and hopefully that will help.
              > > >
              > > > Just out of curiousity if the board is damaged is there anyone out there who has a replacement? I think I was reading in another post that someone was considering designing a new one? Did that ever come together?
              > > >
              > > > --- In mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com, Charles Bliss <cbliss@> wrote:
              > > > >
              > > > > I have had it happen 3 times. First time, I used dielectric grease on
              > > > > the DB9/25 connectors. Most recently used Deoxit Gold. It is working
              > > > > OK at the moment.
              > > > > On the most recent time, it would go forward, but not backwards. Clean
              > > > > and Deoxit fixed that.
              > > > > On 9/22/2012 10:52 AM, Ray Darby wrote:
              > > > > >
              > > > > > If it just creeps ever so slowly with a slight pulsation, it could be
              > > > > > a bad connection on the DB9 &/or DB25 connectors....this problem
              > > > > > (intermittent in my case)...
              > > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > > >
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              >
            • Sean K
              I know it shouldn t be a problem to have the slots cut out on a CNC, and your inlay idea sounds pretty cool, but I have this mental image of something going
              Message 6 of 27 , Nov 19, 2012
              • 0 Attachment
                I know it shouldn't be a problem to have the slots cut out on a CNC, and your inlay idea sounds pretty cool, but I have this mental image of something going horribly wrong and one of those little slots catching the edge of one of the IR chips and completely destroying my sensor board. Gives me nightmares! ;-)

                Really right now I'm trying to figure out the simplest way of getting my force back in traffic with the least risk of creating new damage or having to see it on the back of a tow truck yet again.

                --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "geo_homsy2" <geo.homsy@...> wrote:
                >
                > Why are you nervous about the CNC machining? The encoder gap is perhaps 1 to 3mm, right? Shouldn't be any problem...
                >
                > Another idea (though I notice you've received a lot of them) is to use a pigment-inlay technique. Machine the slots, but only 0.5mm to 1mm deep. With squeegy ready, spray the whole disk with flat black spraypaint. Then wipe.
                >
                > If there's any streaks left over, clean them up by hand with a Q-tip.
                >
                > Like some others presenting ideas, I haven't actually done this. I'm just adding another item for consideration :)
                >
                > Let us know how you make out!
                >
                > //Geo
                >
                > P.S.: Be aware of my other posting: Spray paints and other "black" things may not be black in the near IR...
                >
                >
                > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "Sean K" <seankmc@> wrote:
                > >
                > > So after cleaning my contacts a couple times, printing out a 48 line encoder on my laser printer and gluing it to my encoder disc, and adjusting the gap between the sensor and the disc I was able to drive my force around the block (YAY!), however at that point the paper managed to come loose enough to get caught on the edge of the sensor board and come completely off the disc. I would like to come up with a new encoder disc but after really seeing how close the sensor is the thought of having a slotted one cut out on a CNC machine makes me a little nervous.
                > >
                > > Has anyone here actually made a new encoder disc? So far I'm thinking the idea of doing a toner transfer sounds like the best bet to me but if anyone has any hands on experience I'd like to know.
                > >
                > > Also I was noticing that the back of my encoder disk is pretty marred up like maybe it was rubbing on something, is this typical?
                > >
                > > Thanks,
                > > -Sean
                > >
                > > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, kevin lubot <dexion111@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > it spins damn fast make sure to balance it.
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > ________________________________
                > > > From: Rex Allison <ev64bug@>
                > > > To: "solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com" <solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com>
                > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 12:57 PM
                > > > Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Re: 1999 Force jerking in acceleration
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >  
                > > >
                > > > Are you referring to cutting (machining) slots where the black stripes are on a disk? Slots should work because the optical sensing is with a reflective photo interrupter and the black absorbs the IR light and the bare aluminum is used to reflect the light. I'm not sure anyone has tried this yet.
                > > >
                > > > ________________________________
                > > > From: Sean K <mailto:seankmc%40gmail.com>
                > > > To: mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com
                > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 9:10 AM
                > > > Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: 1999 Force jerking in acceleration
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >  
                > > > So the latest news on my Force, reverse seems to work fine, forward still feels like the motor is having seizures. I'm arranging to have it towed home from the shop tomorrow and once I get it home I'll be spending some quality time checking connectors.
                > > >
                > > > I'm still not crazy about my speed sensor encoder being "fixed" with sharpie and so unless there's an obvious continuity problem I think I'd like to try making a new encoder disc. Jack Mottley had an idea to use a toner transfer and iron the pattern on, I'm thinking maybe I could cut a new disc out of some aluminum flashing. Has anyone tried anything like this before?
                > > >
                > > > --- In mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com, Rex Allison <ev64bug@> wrote:
                > > > >
                > > > > I've had my '96 Force for seven years and last year I had that symptom of slow creeping and pulsation. It just happened once early in the morning (I think around this time of year) then it went away. It happened again this Friday. I was thinking of the contact cleaner but looking at how corroded the connector shells were I just replaced both DB9 connectors. I used solder cup DB9 connectors with machine pins. It is a little tricky since the cable is actually 10 wire ribbon cable folded into a circle. To solder ribbon cable you have to separate the wires and strip back the insulation. Also ribbon cable insulation melts at a fairly low temperature so you have to solder quickly.
                > > > >
                > > > > The original connectors are a ribbon to DB9 connector. This is an mass termination connector that uses insulation displacement to make contact with the conductors in the ribbon cable. I've always been uncomfortable with ribbon cable connectors. I've crimped the connectors and found not all the connections were made, then compressed the connector again and they seem to make connections, but I lack confidence in the quality of the connection. This may be due to my lack of skill, but I prefer crimp pins or solder cup because you can visually inspect the connections.
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > Anyway I am still guessing that it was the connectors at this point and not the encoder/board so I'll just have to see.
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > ________________________________
                > > > > From: Sean K <seankmc@>
                > > > > To: mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com
                > > > > Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2012 8:07 PM
                > > > > Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: 1999 Force jerking in acceleration
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >  
                > > > > Cool, I'll have to wait until Monday to get into the shop where the car is currently but I'll take some contact cleaner with me and hopefully that will help.
                > > > >
                > > > > Just out of curiousity if the board is damaged is there anyone out there who has a replacement? I think I was reading in another post that someone was considering designing a new one? Did that ever come together?
                > > > >
                > > > > --- In mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com, Charles Bliss <cbliss@> wrote:
                > > > > >
                > > > > > I have had it happen 3 times. First time, I used dielectric grease on
                > > > > > the DB9/25 connectors. Most recently used Deoxit Gold. It is working
                > > > > > OK at the moment.
                > > > > > On the most recent time, it would go forward, but not backwards. Clean
                > > > > > and Deoxit fixed that.
                > > > > > On 9/22/2012 10:52 AM, Ray Darby wrote:
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > If it just creeps ever so slowly with a slight pulsation, it could be
                > > > > > > a bad connection on the DB9 &/or DB25 connectors....this problem
                > > > > > > (intermittent in my case)...
                > > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > > > >
                > > >
                > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > > >
                > >
                >
              • Ray Darby
                It is with heavy heart that I ask to be removed from this list, only because I’ve sold my 96 Force recently and need to limit my incoming email to something
                Message 7 of 27 , Nov 19, 2012
                • 0 Attachment
                  It is with heavy heart that I ask to be removed from this list, only because I’ve sold my 96 Force recently and need to limit my incoming email to something more manageable!

                  Many thanks to all on this list who have so energetically and enthusiastically supported myself and other Solectria owers over the years!

                  - Ray Darby

                  From: Sean K
                  Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 9:51 AM
                  To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: 1999 Force jerking in acceleration


                  I know it shouldn't be a problem to have the slots cut out on a CNC, and your inlay idea sounds pretty cool, but I have this mental image of something going horribly wrong and one of those little slots catching the edge of one of the IR chips and completely destroying my sensor board. Gives me nightmares! ;-)

                  Really right now I'm trying to figure out the simplest way of getting my force back in traffic with the least risk of creating new damage or having to see it on the back of a tow truck yet again.

                  --- In mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com, "geo_homsy2" <geo.homsy@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Why are you nervous about the CNC machining? The encoder gap is perhaps 1 to 3mm, right? Shouldn't be any problem...
                  >
                  > Another idea (though I notice you've received a lot of them) is to use a pigment-inlay technique. Machine the slots, but only 0.5mm to 1mm deep. With squeegy ready, spray the whole disk with flat black spraypaint. Then wipe.
                  >
                  > If there's any streaks left over, clean them up by hand with a Q-tip.
                  >
                  > Like some others presenting ideas, I haven't actually done this. I'm just adding another item for consideration :)
                  >
                  > Let us know how you make out!
                  >
                  > //Geo
                  >
                  > P.S.: Be aware of my other posting: Spray paints and other "black" things may not be black in the near IR...
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com, "Sean K" <seankmc@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > So after cleaning my contacts a couple times, printing out a 48 line encoder on my laser printer and gluing it to my encoder disc, and adjusting the gap between the sensor and the disc I was able to drive my force around the block (YAY!), however at that point the paper managed to come loose enough to get caught on the edge of the sensor board and come completely off the disc. I would like to come up with a new encoder disc but after really seeing how close the sensor is the thought of having a slotted one cut out on a CNC machine makes me a little nervous.
                  > >
                  > > Has anyone here actually made a new encoder disc? So far I'm thinking the idea of doing a toner transfer sounds like the best bet to me but if anyone has any hands on experience I'd like to know.
                  > >
                  > > Also I was noticing that the back of my encoder disk is pretty marred up like maybe it was rubbing on something, is this typical?
                  > >
                  > > Thanks,
                  > > -Sean
                  > >
                  > > --- In mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com, kevin lubot <dexion111@> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > it spins damn fast make sure to balance it.
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > ________________________________
                  > > > From: Rex Allison <ev64bug@>
                  > > > To: "mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com>
                  > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 12:57 PM
                  > > > Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Re: 1999 Force jerking in acceleration
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > Â
                  > > >
                  > > > Are you referring to cutting (machining) slots where the black stripes are on a disk? Slots should work because the optical sensing is with a reflective photo interrupter and the black absorbs the IR light and the bare aluminum is used to reflect the light. I'm not sure anyone has tried this yet.
                  > > >
                  > > > ________________________________
                  > > > From: Sean K <mailto:seankmc%40gmail.com>
                  > > > To: mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com
                  > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 9:10 AM
                  > > > Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: 1999 Force jerking in acceleration
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > Â
                  > > > So the latest news on my Force, reverse seems to work fine, forward still feels like the motor is having seizures. I'm arranging to have it towed home from the shop tomorrow and once I get it home I'll be spending some quality time checking connectors.
                  > > >
                  > > > I'm still not crazy about my speed sensor encoder being "fixed" with sharpie and so unless there's an obvious continuity problem I think I'd like to try making a new encoder disc. Jack Mottley had an idea to use a toner transfer and iron the pattern on, I'm thinking maybe I could cut a new disc out of some aluminum flashing. Has anyone tried anything like this before?
                  > > >
                  > > > --- In mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com, Rex Allison <ev64bug@> wrote:
                  > > > >
                  > > > > I've had my '96 Force for seven years and last year I had that symptom of slow creeping and pulsation. It just happened once early in the morning (I think around this time of year) then it went away. It happened again this Friday. I was thinking of the contact cleaner but looking at how corroded the connector shells were I just replaced both DB9 connectors. I used solder cup DB9 connectors with machine pins. It is a little tricky since the cable is actually 10 wire ribbon cable folded into a circle. To solder ribbon cable you have to separate the wires and strip back the insulation. Also ribbon cable insulation melts at a fairly low temperature so you have to solder quickly.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > The original connectors are a ribbon to DB9 connector. This is an mass termination connector that uses insulation displacement to make contact with the conductors in the ribbon cable. I've always been uncomfortable with ribbon cable connectors. I've crimped the connectors and found not all the connections were made, then compressed the connector again and they seem to make connections, but I lack confidence in the quality of the connection. This may be due to my lack of skill, but I prefer crimp pins or solder cup because you can visually inspect the connections.
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Anyway I am still guessing that it was the connectors at this point and not the encoder/board so I'll just have to see.
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > ________________________________
                  > > > > From: Sean K <seankmc@>
                  > > > > To: mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com
                  > > > > Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2012 8:07 PM
                  > > > > Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: 1999 Force jerking in acceleration
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > ÂÂ
                  > > > > Cool, I'll have to wait until Monday to get into the shop where the car is currently but I'll take some contact cleaner with me and hopefully that will help.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Just out of curiousity if the board is damaged is there anyone out there who has a replacement? I think I was reading in another post that someone was considering designing a new one? Did that ever come together?
                  > > > >
                  > > > > --- In mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com, Charles Bliss <cbliss@> wrote:
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > I have had it happen 3 times. First time, I used dielectric grease on
                  > > > > > the DB9/25 connectors. Most recently used Deoxit Gold. It is working
                  > > > > > OK at the moment.
                  > > > > > On the most recent time, it would go forward, but not backwards. Clean
                  > > > > > and Deoxit fixed that.
                  > > > > > On 9/22/2012 10:52 AM, Ray Darby wrote:
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > If it just creeps ever so slowly with a slight pulsation, it could be
                  > > > > > > a bad connection on the DB9 &/or DB25 connectors....this problem
                  > > > > > > (intermittent in my case)...
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > > >
                  > >
                  >





                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Lawrence Winiarski
                  ________________________________  geo_homsy2 wrote:   ... The other problem is that things that look white or clear in visible
                  Message 8 of 27 , Nov 19, 2012
                  • 0 Attachment
                    ________________________________
                     geo_homsy2 <geo.homsy@...> wrote:

                     
                    >Wolf- have you actually done this successfully?
                    >A long while back, I actually experimented with the reflectivity of MANY media in the near-IR spectrum.
                    >It turns out, what looks black is not necessarily black. Media vary quite a bit (say, 5 to 10x). Some of them are pretty shiny in the IR.
                    >So beware, Sean, of glossy black inks. May or may not work.

                    The other problem is that things that look "white" or "clear" in visible might not be the same in the IR spectrum.   Snow
                    is very reflective in visible light (i.e. white) but it's a good absorber (i.e. "black") of infrared.    
                    Typical glass is the big example.   It's not very transparent in IR.   

                    I haven't seen the force encoder, so I really don't know what I'm talking about as far as how it's connected, but i'd guess  
                    laser print black (i.e. carbon) on mylar  is good combination for an encoder.   I've seen other encoders made this way.

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Tom Hudson
                    I have to wonder, what causes these discs to fail? I m not even really sure where they are on the motor, and I wonder if there is preventative maintenance
                    Message 9 of 27 , Nov 19, 2012
                    • 0 Attachment
                      I have to wonder, what causes these discs to fail? I'm not even really sure where they
                      are on the motor, and I wonder if there is preventative maintenance that can be done to
                      make sure they don't fail. Has anyone looked into this?

                      So far (knock on wood), none of my motors have had this issue turn up, and I'd like to
                      keep it from happening if possible.

                      -Tom

                      On 11/19/2012 10:19 AM, geo_homsy2 wrote:
                      >
                      > Wolf- have you actually done this successfully?
                      >
                      > A long while back, I actually experimented with the reflectivity of MANY media in the
                      > near-IR spectrum.
                      >
                      > It turns out, what looks black is not necessarily black. Media vary quite a bit (say, 5
                      > to 10x). Some of them are pretty shiny in the IR.
                      >
                      > So beware, Sean, of glossy black inks. May or may not work.
                      >
                      > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com <mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com>, Wolf
                      > <wolf@...> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Take your 48 line encoder file over to your local T-shirt printing shop,
                      > > and have them silk screen it on the back side of your encoder disk.
                      > >
                      > > It should not rub on anything, you might want to check the bearing runout
                      > > on you motor.
                      > > On Nov 18, 2012 10:35 PM, "Sean K" <seankmc@...> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > > **
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > So after cleaning my contacts a couple times, printing out a 48 line
                      > > > encoder on my laser printer and gluing it to my encoder disc, and adjusting
                      > > > the gap between the sensor and the disc I was able to drive my force around
                      > > > the block (YAY!), however at that point the paper managed to come loose
                      > > > enough to get caught on the edge of the sensor board and come completely
                      > > > off the disc. I would like to come up with a new encoder disc but after
                      > > > really seeing how close the sensor is the thought of having a slotted one
                      > > > cut out on a CNC machine makes me a little nervous.
                      > > >
                      > > > Has anyone here actually made a new encoder disc? So far I'm thinking the
                      > > > idea of doing a toner transfer sounds like the best bet to me but if anyone
                      > > > has any hands on experience I'd like to know.
                      > > >
                      > > > Also I was noticing that the back of my encoder disk is pretty marred up
                      > > > like maybe it was rubbing on something, is this typical?
                      > > >
                      > > > Thanks,
                      > > > -Sean
                      > > >
                      > > > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com <mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com>, kevin
                      > lubot <dexion111@> wrote:
                      > > > >
                      > > > > it spins damn fast make sure to balance it.
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > > ________________________________
                      > > > > From: Rex Allison <ev64bug@>
                      > > > > To: "solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com <mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com>"
                      > <solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com <mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com>>
                      > > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 12:57 PM
                      > > > > Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Re: 1999 Force jerking in acceleration
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Â
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Are you referring to cutting (machining) slots where the black stripes
                      > > > are on a disk? Slots should work because the optical sensing is with a
                      > > > reflective photo interrupter and the black absorbs the IR light and the
                      > > > bare aluminum is used to reflect the light. I'm not sure anyone has tried
                      > > > this yet.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > ________________________________
                      > > > > From: Sean K <mailto:seankmc%40gmail.com>
                      > > > > To: mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com
                      > > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 9:10 AM
                      > > > > Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: 1999 Force jerking in acceleration
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Â
                      > > > > So the latest news on my Force, reverse seems to work fine, forward
                      > > > still feels like the motor is having seizures. I'm arranging to have it
                      > > > towed home from the shop tomorrow and once I get it home I'll be spending
                      > > > some quality time checking connectors.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > I'm still not crazy about my speed sensor encoder being "fixed" with
                      > > > sharpie and so unless there's an obvious continuity problem I think I'd
                      > > > like to try making a new encoder disc. Jack Mottley had an idea to use a
                      > > > toner transfer and iron the pattern on, I'm thinking maybe I could cut a
                      > > > new disc out of some aluminum flashing. Has anyone tried anything like this
                      > > > before?
                      > > > >
                      > > > > --- In mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com, Rex Allison <ev64bug@>
                      > > > wrote:
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > I've had my '96 Force for seven years and last year I had that symptom
                      > > > of slow creeping and pulsation. It just happened once early in the morning
                      > > > (I think around this time of year) then it went away. It happened again
                      > > > this Friday. I was thinking of the contact cleaner but looking at how
                      > > > corroded the connector shells were I just replaced both DB9 connectors. I
                      > > > used solder cup DB9 connectors with machine pins. It is a little tricky
                      > > > since the cable is actually 10 wire ribbon cable folded into a circle. To
                      > > > solder ribbon cable you have to separate the wires and strip back the
                      > > > insulation. Also ribbon cable insulation melts at a fairly low temperature
                      > > > so you have to solder quickly.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > The original connectors are a ribbon to DB9 connector. This is an mass
                      > > > termination connector that uses insulation displacement to make contact
                      > > > with the conductors in the ribbon cable. I've always been uncomfortable
                      > > > with ribbon cable connectors. I've crimped the connectors and found not all
                      > > > the connections were made, then compressed the connector again and they
                      > > > seem to make connections, but I lack confidence in the quality of the
                      > > > connection. This may be due to my lack of skill, but I prefer crimp pins or
                      > > > solder cup because you can visually inspect the connections.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Anyway I am still guessing that it was the connectors at this point
                      > > > and not the encoder/board so I'll just have to see.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > ________________________________
                      > > > > > From: Sean K <seankmc@>
                      > > > > > To: mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com
                      > > > > > Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2012 8:07 PM
                      > > > > > Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: 1999 Force jerking in acceleration
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Ã,Â
                      > > > > > Cool, I'll have to wait until Monday to get into the shop where the
                      > > > car is currently but I'll take some contact cleaner with me and hopefully
                      > > > that will help.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Just out of curiousity if the board is damaged is there anyone out
                      > > > there who has a replacement? I think I was reading in another post that
                      > > > someone was considering designing a new one? Did that ever come together?
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > --- In mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com, Charles Bliss <cbliss@>
                      > > > wrote:
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > I have had it happen 3 times. First time, I used dielectric grease
                      > > > on
                      > > > > > > the DB9/25 connectors. Most recently used Deoxit Gold. It is working
                      > > > > > > OK at the moment.
                      > > > > > > On the most recent time, it would go forward, but not backwards.
                      > > > Clean
                      > > > > > > and Deoxit fixed that.
                      > > > > > > On 9/22/2012 10:52 AM, Ray Darby wrote:
                      > > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > > If it just creeps ever so slowly with a slight pulsation, it could
                      > > > be
                      > > > > > > > a bad connection on the DB9 &/or DB25 connectors....this problem
                      > > > > > > > (intermittent in my case)...
                      > > > > > > >
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > >
                      >
                      >

                      --
                      Thomas Hudson
                      http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power & More
                      http://klanky.com -- Animation Projects



                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Sean K
                      Ray, if you log into the yahoo groups page you can edit your membership settings to either just send a single digest email each day of the activities here, or
                      Message 10 of 27 , Nov 20, 2012
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Ray, if you log into the yahoo groups page you can edit your membership settings to either just send a single digest email each day of the activities here, or turn off email completely, but you could still log into the site if you wanted. As a last resort there is also a link in there to leave the group.

                        --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "Ray Darby" <raydarby@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > It is with heavy heart that I ask to be removed from this list, only because I’ve sold my 96 Force recently and need to limit my incoming email to something more manageable!
                        >
                        > Many thanks to all on this list who have so energetically and enthusiastically supported myself and other Solectria owers over the years!
                        >
                        > - Ray Darby
                        >
                        > From: Sean K
                        > Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 9:51 AM
                        > To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                        > Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: 1999 Force jerking in acceleration
                        >
                        >
                        > I know it shouldn't be a problem to have the slots cut out on a CNC, and your inlay idea sounds pretty cool, but I have this mental image of something going horribly wrong and one of those little slots catching the edge of one of the IR chips and completely destroying my sensor board. Gives me nightmares! ;-)
                        >
                        > Really right now I'm trying to figure out the simplest way of getting my force back in traffic with the least risk of creating new damage or having to see it on the back of a tow truck yet again.
                        >
                        > --- In mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com, "geo_homsy2" <geo.homsy@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Why are you nervous about the CNC machining? The encoder gap is perhaps 1 to 3mm, right? Shouldn't be any problem...
                        > >
                        > > Another idea (though I notice you've received a lot of them) is to use a pigment-inlay technique. Machine the slots, but only 0.5mm to 1mm deep. With squeegy ready, spray the whole disk with flat black spraypaint. Then wipe.
                        > >
                        > > If there's any streaks left over, clean them up by hand with a Q-tip.
                        > >
                        > > Like some others presenting ideas, I haven't actually done this. I'm just adding another item for consideration :)
                        > >
                        > > Let us know how you make out!
                        > >
                        > > //Geo
                        > >
                        > > P.S.: Be aware of my other posting: Spray paints and other "black" things may not be black in the near IR...
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > --- In mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com, "Sean K" <seankmc@> wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > So after cleaning my contacts a couple times, printing out a 48 line encoder on my laser printer and gluing it to my encoder disc, and adjusting the gap between the sensor and the disc I was able to drive my force around the block (YAY!), however at that point the paper managed to come loose enough to get caught on the edge of the sensor board and come completely off the disc. I would like to come up with a new encoder disc but after really seeing how close the sensor is the thought of having a slotted one cut out on a CNC machine makes me a little nervous.
                        > > >
                        > > > Has anyone here actually made a new encoder disc? So far I'm thinking the idea of doing a toner transfer sounds like the best bet to me but if anyone has any hands on experience I'd like to know.
                        > > >
                        > > > Also I was noticing that the back of my encoder disk is pretty marred up like maybe it was rubbing on something, is this typical?
                        > > >
                        > > > Thanks,
                        > > > -Sean
                        > > >
                        > > > --- In mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com, kevin lubot <dexion111@> wrote:
                        > > > >
                        > > > > it spins damn fast make sure to balance it.
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > > ________________________________
                        > > > > From: Rex Allison <ev64bug@>
                        > > > > To: "mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com>
                        > > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 12:57 PM
                        > > > > Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Re: 1999 Force jerking in acceleration
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Â
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Are you referring to cutting (machining) slots where the black stripes are on a disk? Slots should work because the optical sensing is with a reflective photo interrupter and the black absorbs the IR light and the bare aluminum is used to reflect the light. I'm not sure anyone has tried this yet.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > ________________________________
                        > > > > From: Sean K <mailto:seankmc%40gmail.com>
                        > > > > To: mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com
                        > > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 9:10 AM
                        > > > > Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: 1999 Force jerking in acceleration
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Â
                        > > > > So the latest news on my Force, reverse seems to work fine, forward still feels like the motor is having seizures. I'm arranging to have it towed home from the shop tomorrow and once I get it home I'll be spending some quality time checking connectors.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > I'm still not crazy about my speed sensor encoder being "fixed" with sharpie and so unless there's an obvious continuity problem I think I'd like to try making a new encoder disc. Jack Mottley had an idea to use a toner transfer and iron the pattern on, I'm thinking maybe I could cut a new disc out of some aluminum flashing. Has anyone tried anything like this before?
                        > > > >
                        > > > > --- In mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com, Rex Allison <ev64bug@> wrote:
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > I've had my '96 Force for seven years and last year I had that symptom of slow creeping and pulsation. It just happened once early in the morning (I think around this time of year) then it went away. It happened again this Friday. I was thinking of the contact cleaner but looking at how corroded the connector shells were I just replaced both DB9 connectors. I used solder cup DB9 connectors with machine pins. It is a little tricky since the cable is actually 10 wire ribbon cable folded into a circle. To solder ribbon cable you have to separate the wires and strip back the insulation. Also ribbon cable insulation melts at a fairly low temperature so you have to solder quickly.
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > The original connectors are a ribbon to DB9 connector. This is an mass termination connector that uses insulation displacement to make contact with the conductors in the ribbon cable. I've always been uncomfortable with ribbon cable connectors. I've crimped the connectors and found not all the connections were made, then compressed the connector again and they seem to make connections, but I lack confidence in the quality of the connection. This may be due to my lack of skill, but I prefer crimp pins or solder cup because you can visually inspect the connections.
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Anyway I am still guessing that it was the connectors at this point and not the encoder/board so I'll just have to see.
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > ________________________________
                        > > > > > From: Sean K <seankmc@>
                        > > > > > To: mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com
                        > > > > > Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2012 8:07 PM
                        > > > > > Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: 1999 Force jerking in acceleration
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > ÂÂ
                        > > > > > Cool, I'll have to wait until Monday to get into the shop where the car is currently but I'll take some contact cleaner with me and hopefully that will help.
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Just out of curiousity if the board is damaged is there anyone out there who has a replacement? I think I was reading in another post that someone was considering designing a new one? Did that ever come together?
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > --- In mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com, Charles Bliss <cbliss@> wrote:
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > I have had it happen 3 times. First time, I used dielectric grease on
                        > > > > > > the DB9/25 connectors. Most recently used Deoxit Gold. It is working
                        > > > > > > OK at the moment.
                        > > > > > > On the most recent time, it would go forward, but not backwards. Clean
                        > > > > > > and Deoxit fixed that.
                        > > > > > > On 9/22/2012 10:52 AM, Ray Darby wrote:
                        > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > > If it just creeps ever so slowly with a slight pulsation, it could be
                        > > > > > > > a bad connection on the DB9 &/or DB25 connectors....this problem
                        > > > > > > > (intermittent in my case)...
                        > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > > > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                      • Ray Darby
                        Thanks Sean, I couldn’t log in so I used the email remove link on the Yahoo Group page, hopefully that will work! Thanks for your reply, - Ray Darby From:
                        Message 11 of 27 , Nov 20, 2012
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Thanks Sean,

                          I couldn’t log in so I used the email remove link on the Yahoo Group page, hopefully that will work! Thanks for your reply,

                          - Ray Darby

                          From: Sean K
                          Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 9:25 AM
                          To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: Please remove me from this list


                          Ray, if you log into the yahoo groups page you can edit your membership settings to either just send a single digest email each day of the activities here, or turn off email completely, but you could still log into the site if you wanted. As a last resort there is also a link in there to leave the group.

                          --- In mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com, "Ray Darby" <raydarby@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > It is with heavy heart that I ask to be removed from this list, only because I’ve sold my 96 Force recently and need to limit my incoming email to something more manageable!
                          >
                          > Many thanks to all on this list who have so energetically and enthusiastically supported myself and other Solectria owers over the years!
                          >
                          > - Ray Darby
                          >
                          > From: Sean K
                          > Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 9:51 AM
                          > To: mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com
                          > Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: 1999 Force jerking in acceleration
                          >
                          >
                          > I know it shouldn't be a problem to have the slots cut out on a CNC, and your inlay idea sounds pretty cool, but I have this mental image of something going horribly wrong and one of those little slots catching the edge of one of the IR chips and completely destroying my sensor board. Gives me nightmares! ;-)
                          >
                          > Really right now I'm trying to figure out the simplest way of getting my force back in traffic with the least risk of creating new damage or having to see it on the back of a tow truck yet again.
                          >
                          > --- In mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com, "geo_homsy2" <geo.homsy@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Why are you nervous about the CNC machining? The encoder gap is perhaps 1 to 3mm, right? Shouldn't be any problem...
                          > >
                          > > Another idea (though I notice you've received a lot of them) is to use a pigment-inlay technique. Machine the slots, but only 0.5mm to 1mm deep. With squeegy ready, spray the whole disk with flat black spraypaint. Then wipe.
                          > >
                          > > If there's any streaks left over, clean them up by hand with a Q-tip.
                          > >
                          > > Like some others presenting ideas, I haven't actually done this. I'm just adding another item for consideration :)
                          > >
                          > > Let us know how you make out!
                          > >
                          > > //Geo
                          > >
                          > > P.S.: Be aware of my other posting: Spray paints and other "black" things may not be black in the near IR...
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > --- In mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com, "Sean K" <seankmc@> wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > So after cleaning my contacts a couple times, printing out a 48 line encoder on my laser printer and gluing it to my encoder disc, and adjusting the gap between the sensor and the disc I was able to drive my force around the block (YAY!), however at that point the paper managed to come loose enough to get caught on the edge of the sensor board and come completely off the disc. I would like to come up with a new encoder disc but after really seeing how close the sensor is the thought of having a slotted one cut out on a CNC machine makes me a little nervous.
                          > > >
                          > > > Has anyone here actually made a new encoder disc? So far I'm thinking the idea of doing a toner transfer sounds like the best bet to me but if anyone has any hands on experience I'd like to know.
                          > > >
                          > > > Also I was noticing that the back of my encoder disk is pretty marred up like maybe it was rubbing on something, is this typical?
                          > > >
                          > > > Thanks,
                          > > > -Sean
                          > > >
                          > > > --- In mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com, kevin lubot <dexion111@> wrote:
                          > > > >
                          > > > > it spins damn fast make sure to balance it.
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > > ________________________________
                          > > > > From: Rex Allison <ev64bug@>
                          > > > > To: "mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com>
                          > > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 12:57 PM
                          > > > > Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Re: 1999 Force jerking in acceleration
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Â
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Are you referring to cutting (machining) slots where the black stripes are on a disk? Slots should work because the optical sensing is with a reflective photo interrupter and the black absorbs the IR light and the bare aluminum is used to reflect the light. I'm not sure anyone has tried this yet.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > ________________________________
                          > > > > From: Sean K <mailto:seankmc%40gmail.com>
                          > > > > To: mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com
                          > > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 9:10 AM
                          > > > > Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: 1999 Force jerking in acceleration
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Â
                          > > > > So the latest news on my Force, reverse seems to work fine, forward still feels like the motor is having seizures. I'm arranging to have it towed home from the shop tomorrow and once I get it home I'll be spending some quality time checking connectors.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > I'm still not crazy about my speed sensor encoder being "fixed" with sharpie and so unless there's an obvious continuity problem I think I'd like to try making a new encoder disc. Jack Mottley had an idea to use a toner transfer and iron the pattern on, I'm thinking maybe I could cut a new disc out of some aluminum flashing. Has anyone tried anything like this before?
                          > > > >
                          > > > > --- In mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com, Rex Allison <ev64bug@> wrote:
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > I've had my '96 Force for seven years and last year I had that symptom of slow creeping and pulsation. It just happened once early in the morning (I think around this time of year) then it went away. It happened again this Friday. I was thinking of the contact cleaner but looking at how corroded the connector shells were I just replaced both DB9 connectors. I used solder cup DB9 connectors with machine pins. It is a little tricky since the cable is actually 10 wire ribbon cable folded into a circle. To solder ribbon cable you have to separate the wires and strip back the insulation. Also ribbon cable insulation melts at a fairly low temperature so you have to solder quickly.
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > The original connectors are a ribbon to DB9 connector. This is an mass termination connector that uses insulation displacement to make contact with the conductors in the ribbon cable. I've always been uncomfortable with ribbon cable connectors. I've crimped the connectors and found not all the connections were made, then compressed the connector again and they seem to make connections, but I lack confidence in the quality of the connection. This may be due to my lack of skill, but I prefer crimp pins or solder cup because you can visually inspect the connections.
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > Anyway I am still guessing that it was the connectors at this point and not the encoder/board so I'll just have to see.
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > ________________________________
                          > > > > > From: Sean K <seankmc@>
                          > > > > > To: mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com
                          > > > > > Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2012 8:07 PM
                          > > > > > Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: 1999 Force jerking in acceleration
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > ÂÂ
                          > > > > > Cool, I'll have to wait until Monday to get into the shop where the car is currently but I'll take some contact cleaner with me and hopefully that will help.
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > Just out of curiousity if the board is damaged is there anyone out there who has a replacement? I think I was reading in another post that someone was considering designing a new one? Did that ever come together?
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > --- In mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com, Charles Bliss <cbliss@> wrote:
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > I have had it happen 3 times. First time, I used dielectric grease on
                          > > > > > > the DB9/25 connectors. Most recently used Deoxit Gold. It is working
                          > > > > > > OK at the moment.
                          > > > > > > On the most recent time, it would go forward, but not backwards. Clean
                          > > > > > > and Deoxit fixed that.
                          > > > > > > On 9/22/2012 10:52 AM, Ray Darby wrote:
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > If it just creeps ever so slowly with a slight pulsation, it could be
                          > > > > > > > a bad connection on the DB9 &/or DB25 connectors....this problem
                          > > > > > > > (intermittent in my case)...
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > > > >
                          > > >
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >





                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Sean K
                          Tom, the disc is on the back end of the motor, in order to access it you need to remove the fan assembly, and then the metal end cap, for me the trickiest part
                          Message 12 of 27 , Nov 20, 2012
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Tom, the disc is on the back end of the motor, in order to access it you need to remove the fan assembly, and then the metal end cap, for me the trickiest part was manuevering the fan assembly out, it's a pretty tight fit.

                            With regard to failure in my case the disc was damaged when I had a critical failure of one of the bearings in the gearbox and the car suddenly slammed to a hault from about 30mph causing the sensor to strike the disk and gouge it.

                            The reason for my failure is the gearbox had a leak which was not caught by the previous owner and it had been driven for an unknown number of miles without trans fluid in it, so the lesson there is check your gearbox fluid level regularly and change it as reccomended.

                            The bearing that wolf referred to is if I'm not mistaken on the front end of the motor, and if worn can allow some play in the shaft, with how close the sensor is to that disc it doesn't take much movement to make contact and the markings on the disc come off very easily.

                            Andreas Kruspan (www.kruspan.ch) has a really cool replacement for the sensor that is also a replacement for the bearing, but because it is thicker than the original bearing requires some machine work be done to the motor.

                            If someone could come up with a reliable, easy to install replacement sensor that I could just screw into original sensor location and was not subject to the same clearance issues as the original for less than a grand I'd buy that in a heartbeat.

                            --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, Tom Hudson <tdhudson@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > I have to wonder, what causes these discs to fail? I'm not even really sure where they
                            > are on the motor, and I wonder if there is preventative maintenance that can be done to
                            > make sure they don't fail. Has anyone looked into this?
                            >
                            > So far (knock on wood), none of my motors have had this issue turn up, and I'd like to
                            > keep it from happening if possible.
                            >
                            > -Tom
                            >
                            > On 11/19/2012 10:19 AM, geo_homsy2 wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Wolf- have you actually done this successfully?
                            > >
                            > > A long while back, I actually experimented with the reflectivity of MANY media in the
                            > > near-IR spectrum.
                            > >
                            > > It turns out, what looks black is not necessarily black. Media vary quite a bit (say, 5
                            > > to 10x). Some of them are pretty shiny in the IR.
                            > >
                            > > So beware, Sean, of glossy black inks. May or may not work.
                            > >
                            > > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com <mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com>, Wolf
                            > > <wolf@> wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > > Take your 48 line encoder file over to your local T-shirt printing shop,
                            > > > and have them silk screen it on the back side of your encoder disk.
                            > > >
                            > > > It should not rub on anything, you might want to check the bearing runout
                            > > > on you motor.
                            > > > On Nov 18, 2012 10:35 PM, "Sean K" <seankmc@> wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > > > **
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > So after cleaning my contacts a couple times, printing out a 48 line
                            > > > > encoder on my laser printer and gluing it to my encoder disc, and adjusting
                            > > > > the gap between the sensor and the disc I was able to drive my force around
                            > > > > the block (YAY!), however at that point the paper managed to come loose
                            > > > > enough to get caught on the edge of the sensor board and come completely
                            > > > > off the disc. I would like to come up with a new encoder disc but after
                            > > > > really seeing how close the sensor is the thought of having a slotted one
                            > > > > cut out on a CNC machine makes me a little nervous.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Has anyone here actually made a new encoder disc? So far I'm thinking the
                            > > > > idea of doing a toner transfer sounds like the best bet to me but if anyone
                            > > > > has any hands on experience I'd like to know.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Also I was noticing that the back of my encoder disk is pretty marred up
                            > > > > like maybe it was rubbing on something, is this typical?
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Thanks,
                            > > > > -Sean
                            > > > >
                            > > > > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com <mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com>, kevin
                            > > lubot <dexion111@> wrote:
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > it spins damn fast make sure to balance it.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > ________________________________
                            > > > > > From: Rex Allison <ev64bug@>
                            > > > > > To: "solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com <mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com>"
                            > > <solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com <mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com>>
                            > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 12:57 PM
                            > > > > > Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Re: 1999 Force jerking in acceleration
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > Â
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > Are you referring to cutting (machining) slots where the black stripes
                            > > > > are on a disk? Slots should work because the optical sensing is with a
                            > > > > reflective photo interrupter and the black absorbs the IR light and the
                            > > > > bare aluminum is used to reflect the light. I'm not sure anyone has tried
                            > > > > this yet.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > ________________________________
                            > > > > > From: Sean K <mailto:seankmc%40gmail.com>
                            > > > > > To: mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com
                            > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 9:10 AM
                            > > > > > Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: 1999 Force jerking in acceleration
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > Â
                            > > > > > So the latest news on my Force, reverse seems to work fine, forward
                            > > > > still feels like the motor is having seizures. I'm arranging to have it
                            > > > > towed home from the shop tomorrow and once I get it home I'll be spending
                            > > > > some quality time checking connectors.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > I'm still not crazy about my speed sensor encoder being "fixed" with
                            > > > > sharpie and so unless there's an obvious continuity problem I think I'd
                            > > > > like to try making a new encoder disc. Jack Mottley had an idea to use a
                            > > > > toner transfer and iron the pattern on, I'm thinking maybe I could cut a
                            > > > > new disc out of some aluminum flashing. Has anyone tried anything like this
                            > > > > before?
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > --- In mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com, Rex Allison <ev64bug@>
                            > > > > wrote:
                            > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > I've had my '96 Force for seven years and last year I had that symptom
                            > > > > of slow creeping and pulsation. It just happened once early in the morning
                            > > > > (I think around this time of year) then it went away. It happened again
                            > > > > this Friday. I was thinking of the contact cleaner but looking at how
                            > > > > corroded the connector shells were I just replaced both DB9 connectors. I
                            > > > > used solder cup DB9 connectors with machine pins. It is a little tricky
                            > > > > since the cable is actually 10 wire ribbon cable folded into a circle. To
                            > > > > solder ribbon cable you have to separate the wires and strip back the
                            > > > > insulation. Also ribbon cable insulation melts at a fairly low temperature
                            > > > > so you have to solder quickly.
                            > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > The original connectors are a ribbon to DB9 connector. This is an mass
                            > > > > termination connector that uses insulation displacement to make contact
                            > > > > with the conductors in the ribbon cable. I've always been uncomfortable
                            > > > > with ribbon cable connectors. I've crimped the connectors and found not all
                            > > > > the connections were made, then compressed the connector again and they
                            > > > > seem to make connections, but I lack confidence in the quality of the
                            > > > > connection. This may be due to my lack of skill, but I prefer crimp pins or
                            > > > > solder cup because you can visually inspect the connections.
                            > > > > > >
                            > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > Anyway I am still guessing that it was the connectors at this point
                            > > > > and not the encoder/board so I'll just have to see.
                            > > > > > >
                            > > > > > >
                            > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > ________________________________
                            > > > > > > From: Sean K <seankmc@>
                            > > > > > > To: mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com
                            > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2012 8:07 PM
                            > > > > > > Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: 1999 Force jerking in acceleration
                            > > > > > >
                            > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > Ã,Â
                            > > > > > > Cool, I'll have to wait until Monday to get into the shop where the
                            > > > > car is currently but I'll take some contact cleaner with me and hopefully
                            > > > > that will help.
                            > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > Just out of curiousity if the board is damaged is there anyone out
                            > > > > there who has a replacement? I think I was reading in another post that
                            > > > > someone was considering designing a new one? Did that ever come together?
                            > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > --- In mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com, Charles Bliss <cbliss@>
                            > > > > wrote:
                            > > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > > I have had it happen 3 times. First time, I used dielectric grease
                            > > > > on
                            > > > > > > > the DB9/25 connectors. Most recently used Deoxit Gold. It is working
                            > > > > > > > OK at the moment.
                            > > > > > > > On the most recent time, it would go forward, but not backwards.
                            > > > > Clean
                            > > > > > > > and Deoxit fixed that.
                            > > > > > > > On 9/22/2012 10:52 AM, Ray Darby wrote:
                            > > > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > > > If it just creeps ever so slowly with a slight pulsation, it could
                            > > > > be
                            > > > > > > > > a bad connection on the DB9 &/or DB25 connectors....this problem
                            > > > > > > > > (intermittent in my case)...
                            > > > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > > > > > > >
                            > > > > > >
                            > > > > > >
                            > > > > > >
                            > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            >
                            > --
                            > Thomas Hudson
                            > http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power & More
                            > http://klanky.com -- Animation Projects
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                          • geo_homsy2
                            They re on the butt-end of the motor shaft, under the cooling fan housing, under a little cover plate. Not sure what causes them to fail -- I ve never had one
                            Message 13 of 27 , Nov 20, 2012
                            • 0 Attachment
                              They're on the butt-end of the motor shaft, under the cooling fan housing, under a little cover plate.

                              Not sure what causes them to fail -- I've never had one fail. Perhaps those with failure experience will tell us. Maybe scraping against the encoder board?

                              The only preventive maintenance I can think of is adjusting the encoder gap occasionally, to preempt said scraping.

                              //Geo

                              --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, Tom Hudson <tdhudson@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > I have to wonder, what causes these discs to fail? I'm not even really sure where they
                              > are on the motor, and I wonder if there is preventative maintenance that can be done to
                              > make sure they don't fail. Has anyone looked into this?
                              >
                              > So far (knock on wood), none of my motors have had this issue turn up, and I'd like to
                              > keep it from happening if possible.
                              >
                              > -Tom
                              >
                              > On 11/19/2012 10:19 AM, geo_homsy2 wrote:
                              > >
                              > > Wolf- have you actually done this successfully?
                              > >
                              > > A long while back, I actually experimented with the reflectivity of MANY media in the
                              > > near-IR spectrum.
                              > >
                              > > It turns out, what looks black is not necessarily black. Media vary quite a bit (say, 5
                              > > to 10x). Some of them are pretty shiny in the IR.
                              > >
                              > > So beware, Sean, of glossy black inks. May or may not work.
                              > >
                              > > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com <mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com>, Wolf
                              > > <wolf@> wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > > Take your 48 line encoder file over to your local T-shirt printing shop,
                              > > > and have them silk screen it on the back side of your encoder disk.
                              > > >
                              > > > It should not rub on anything, you might want to check the bearing runout
                              > > > on you motor.
                              > > > On Nov 18, 2012 10:35 PM, "Sean K" <seankmc@> wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > > > **
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > > So after cleaning my contacts a couple times, printing out a 48 line
                              > > > > encoder on my laser printer and gluing it to my encoder disc, and adjusting
                              > > > > the gap between the sensor and the disc I was able to drive my force around
                              > > > > the block (YAY!), however at that point the paper managed to come loose
                              > > > > enough to get caught on the edge of the sensor board and come completely
                              > > > > off the disc. I would like to come up with a new encoder disc but after
                              > > > > really seeing how close the sensor is the thought of having a slotted one
                              > > > > cut out on a CNC machine makes me a little nervous.
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Has anyone here actually made a new encoder disc? So far I'm thinking the
                              > > > > idea of doing a toner transfer sounds like the best bet to me but if anyone
                              > > > > has any hands on experience I'd like to know.
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Also I was noticing that the back of my encoder disk is pretty marred up
                              > > > > like maybe it was rubbing on something, is this typical?
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Thanks,
                              > > > > -Sean
                              > > > >
                              > > > > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com <mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com>, kevin
                              > > lubot <dexion111@> wrote:
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > it spins damn fast make sure to balance it.
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > ________________________________
                              > > > > > From: Rex Allison <ev64bug@>
                              > > > > > To: "solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com <mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com>"
                              > > <solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com <mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com>>
                              > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 12:57 PM
                              > > > > > Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Re: 1999 Force jerking in acceleration
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > Â
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > Are you referring to cutting (machining) slots where the black stripes
                              > > > > are on a disk? Slots should work because the optical sensing is with a
                              > > > > reflective photo interrupter and the black absorbs the IR light and the
                              > > > > bare aluminum is used to reflect the light. I'm not sure anyone has tried
                              > > > > this yet.
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > ________________________________
                              > > > > > From: Sean K <mailto:seankmc%40gmail.com>
                              > > > > > To: mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com
                              > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 9:10 AM
                              > > > > > Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: 1999 Force jerking in acceleration
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > Â
                              > > > > > So the latest news on my Force, reverse seems to work fine, forward
                              > > > > still feels like the motor is having seizures. I'm arranging to have it
                              > > > > towed home from the shop tomorrow and once I get it home I'll be spending
                              > > > > some quality time checking connectors.
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > I'm still not crazy about my speed sensor encoder being "fixed" with
                              > > > > sharpie and so unless there's an obvious continuity problem I think I'd
                              > > > > like to try making a new encoder disc. Jack Mottley had an idea to use a
                              > > > > toner transfer and iron the pattern on, I'm thinking maybe I could cut a
                              > > > > new disc out of some aluminum flashing. Has anyone tried anything like this
                              > > > > before?
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > --- In mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com, Rex Allison <ev64bug@>
                              > > > > wrote:
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > I've had my '96 Force for seven years and last year I had that symptom
                              > > > > of slow creeping and pulsation. It just happened once early in the morning
                              > > > > (I think around this time of year) then it went away. It happened again
                              > > > > this Friday. I was thinking of the contact cleaner but looking at how
                              > > > > corroded the connector shells were I just replaced both DB9 connectors. I
                              > > > > used solder cup DB9 connectors with machine pins. It is a little tricky
                              > > > > since the cable is actually 10 wire ribbon cable folded into a circle. To
                              > > > > solder ribbon cable you have to separate the wires and strip back the
                              > > > > insulation. Also ribbon cable insulation melts at a fairly low temperature
                              > > > > so you have to solder quickly.
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > The original connectors are a ribbon to DB9 connector. This is an mass
                              > > > > termination connector that uses insulation displacement to make contact
                              > > > > with the conductors in the ribbon cable. I've always been uncomfortable
                              > > > > with ribbon cable connectors. I've crimped the connectors and found not all
                              > > > > the connections were made, then compressed the connector again and they
                              > > > > seem to make connections, but I lack confidence in the quality of the
                              > > > > connection. This may be due to my lack of skill, but I prefer crimp pins or
                              > > > > solder cup because you can visually inspect the connections.
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > Anyway I am still guessing that it was the connectors at this point
                              > > > > and not the encoder/board so I'll just have to see.
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > ________________________________
                              > > > > > > From: Sean K <seankmc@>
                              > > > > > > To: mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com
                              > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2012 8:07 PM
                              > > > > > > Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: 1999 Force jerking in acceleration
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > Ã,Â
                              > > > > > > Cool, I'll have to wait until Monday to get into the shop where the
                              > > > > car is currently but I'll take some contact cleaner with me and hopefully
                              > > > > that will help.
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > Just out of curiousity if the board is damaged is there anyone out
                              > > > > there who has a replacement? I think I was reading in another post that
                              > > > > someone was considering designing a new one? Did that ever come together?
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > --- In mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com, Charles Bliss <cbliss@>
                              > > > > wrote:
                              > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > I have had it happen 3 times. First time, I used dielectric grease
                              > > > > on
                              > > > > > > > the DB9/25 connectors. Most recently used Deoxit Gold. It is working
                              > > > > > > > OK at the moment.
                              > > > > > > > On the most recent time, it would go forward, but not backwards.
                              > > > > Clean
                              > > > > > > > and Deoxit fixed that.
                              > > > > > > > On 9/22/2012 10:52 AM, Ray Darby wrote:
                              > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > > If it just creeps ever so slowly with a slight pulsation, it could
                              > > > > be
                              > > > > > > > > a bad connection on the DB9 &/or DB25 connectors....this problem
                              > > > > > > > > (intermittent in my case)...
                              > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              > > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              > > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              >
                              > --
                              > Thomas Hudson
                              > http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power & More
                              > http://klanky.com -- Animation Projects
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                            • Tom Hudson
                              Thanks, Sean, now I see what the story is. Yeah, that would be a PITA to get to! I can understand now how that would fail if a bearing started to go. -Tom
                              Message 14 of 27 , Nov 20, 2012
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Thanks, Sean, now I see what the story is. Yeah, that would be a PITA to get to! I can
                                understand now how that would fail if a bearing started to go.

                                -Tom

                                On 11/20/2012 12:07 PM, Sean K wrote:
                                >
                                > Tom, the disc is on the back end of the motor, in order to access it you need to remove
                                > the fan assembly, and then the metal end cap, for me the trickiest part was manuevering
                                > the fan assembly out, it's a pretty tight fit.
                                >
                                > With regard to failure in my case the disc was damaged when I had a critical failure of
                                > one of the bearings in the gearbox and the car suddenly slammed to a hault from about
                                > 30mph causing the sensor to strike the disk and gouge it.
                                >
                                > The reason for my failure is the gearbox had a leak which was not caught by the previous
                                > owner and it had been driven for an unknown number of miles without trans fluid in it,
                                > so the lesson there is check your gearbox fluid level regularly and change it as
                                > reccomended.
                                >
                                > The bearing that wolf referred to is if I'm not mistaken on the front end of the motor,
                                > and if worn can allow some play in the shaft, with how close the sensor is to that disc
                                > it doesn't take much movement to make contact and the markings on the disc come off very
                                > easily.
                                >
                                > Andreas Kruspan (www.kruspan.ch) has a really cool replacement for the sensor that is
                                > also a replacement for the bearing, but because it is thicker than the original bearing
                                > requires some machine work be done to the motor.
                                >
                                > If someone could come up with a reliable, easy to install replacement sensor that I
                                > could just screw into original sensor location and was not subject to the same clearance
                                > issues as the original for less than a grand I'd buy that in a heartbeat.
                                >
                                > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com <mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com>, Tom Hudson
                                > <tdhudson@...> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > I have to wonder, what causes these discs to fail? I'm not even really sure where they
                                > > are on the motor, and I wonder if there is preventative maintenance that can be done to
                                > > make sure they don't fail. Has anyone looked into this?
                                > >
                                > > So far (knock on wood), none of my motors have had this issue turn up, and I'd like to
                                > > keep it from happening if possible.
                                > >
                                > > -Tom
                                > >
                                > > On 11/19/2012 10:19 AM, geo_homsy2 wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > > Wolf- have you actually done this successfully?
                                > > >
                                > > > A long while back, I actually experimented with the reflectivity of MANY media in the
                                > > > near-IR spectrum.
                                > > >
                                > > > It turns out, what looks black is not necessarily black. Media vary quite a bit (say, 5
                                > > > to 10x). Some of them are pretty shiny in the IR.
                                > > >
                                > > > So beware, Sean, of glossy black inks. May or may not work.
                                > > >
                                > > > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com <mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com>
                                > <mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com>, Wolf
                                > > > <wolf@> wrote:
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Take your 48 line encoder file over to your local T-shirt printing shop,
                                > > > > and have them silk screen it on the back side of your encoder disk.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > It should not rub on anything, you might want to check the bearing runout
                                > > > > on you motor.
                                > > > > On Nov 18, 2012 10:35 PM, "Sean K" <seankmc@> wrote:
                                > > > >
                                > > > > > **
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > So after cleaning my contacts a couple times, printing out a 48 line
                                > > > > > encoder on my laser printer and gluing it to my encoder disc, and adjusting
                                > > > > > the gap between the sensor and the disc I was able to drive my force around
                                > > > > > the block (YAY!), however at that point the paper managed to come loose
                                > > > > > enough to get caught on the edge of the sensor board and come completely
                                > > > > > off the disc. I would like to come up with a new encoder disc but after
                                > > > > > really seeing how close the sensor is the thought of having a slotted one
                                > > > > > cut out on a CNC machine makes me a little nervous.
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > Has anyone here actually made a new encoder disc? So far I'm thinking the
                                > > > > > idea of doing a toner transfer sounds like the best bet to me but if anyone
                                > > > > > has any hands on experience I'd like to know.
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > Also I was noticing that the back of my encoder disk is pretty marred up
                                > > > > > like maybe it was rubbing on something, is this typical?
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > Thanks,
                                > > > > > -Sean
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com <mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com>
                                > <mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com>, kevin
                                > > > lubot <dexion111@> wrote:
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > it spins damn fast make sure to balance it.
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > ________________________________
                                > > > > > > From: Rex Allison <ev64bug@>
                                > > > > > > To: "solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com <mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com>
                                > <mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com>"
                                > > > <solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com <mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com>
                                > <mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com>>
                                > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 12:57 PM
                                > > > > > > Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Re: 1999 Force jerking in acceleration
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > Â
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > Are you referring to cutting (machining) slots where the black stripes
                                > > > > > are on a disk? Slots should work because the optical sensing is with a
                                > > > > > reflective photo interrupter and the black absorbs the IR light and the
                                > > > > > bare aluminum is used to reflect the light. I'm not sure anyone has tried
                                > > > > > this yet.
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > ________________________________
                                > > > > > > From: Sean K <mailto:seankmc%40gmail.com>
                                > > > > > > To: mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com
                                > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 9:10 AM
                                > > > > > > Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: 1999 Force jerking in acceleration
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > Â
                                > > > > > > So the latest news on my Force, reverse seems to work fine, forward
                                > > > > > still feels like the motor is having seizures. I'm arranging to have it
                                > > > > > towed home from the shop tomorrow and once I get it home I'll be spending
                                > > > > > some quality time checking connectors.
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > I'm still not crazy about my speed sensor encoder being "fixed" with
                                > > > > > sharpie and so unless there's an obvious continuity problem I think I'd
                                > > > > > like to try making a new encoder disc. Jack Mottley had an idea to use a
                                > > > > > toner transfer and iron the pattern on, I'm thinking maybe I could cut a
                                > > > > > new disc out of some aluminum flashing. Has anyone tried anything like this
                                > > > > > before?
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > --- In mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com, Rex Allison <ev64bug@>
                                > > > > > wrote:
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > I've had my '96 Force for seven years and last year I had that symptom
                                > > > > > of slow creeping and pulsation. It just happened once early in the morning
                                > > > > > (I think around this time of year) then it went away. It happened again
                                > > > > > this Friday. I was thinking of the contact cleaner but looking at how
                                > > > > > corroded the connector shells were I just replaced both DB9 connectors. I
                                > > > > > used solder cup DB9 connectors with machine pins. It is a little tricky
                                > > > > > since the cable is actually 10 wire ribbon cable folded into a circle. To
                                > > > > > solder ribbon cable you have to separate the wires and strip back the
                                > > > > > insulation. Also ribbon cable insulation melts at a fairly low temperature
                                > > > > > so you have to solder quickly.
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > The original connectors are a ribbon to DB9 connector. This is an mass
                                > > > > > termination connector that uses insulation displacement to make contact
                                > > > > > with the conductors in the ribbon cable. I've always been uncomfortable
                                > > > > > with ribbon cable connectors. I've crimped the connectors and found not all
                                > > > > > the connections were made, then compressed the connector again and they
                                > > > > > seem to make connections, but I lack confidence in the quality of the
                                > > > > > connection. This may be due to my lack of skill, but I prefer crimp pins or
                                > > > > > solder cup because you can visually inspect the connections.
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > Anyway I am still guessing that it was the connectors at this point
                                > > > > > and not the encoder/board so I'll just have to see.
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > ________________________________
                                > > > > > > > From: Sean K <seankmc@>
                                > > > > > > > To: mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com
                                > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2012 8:07 PM
                                > > > > > > > Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: 1999 Force jerking in acceleration
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > Ã,Â
                                > > > > > > > Cool, I'll have to wait until Monday to get into the shop where the
                                > > > > > car is currently but I'll take some contact cleaner with me and hopefully
                                > > > > > that will help.
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > Just out of curiousity if the board is damaged is there anyone out
                                > > > > > there who has a replacement? I think I was reading in another post that
                                > > > > > someone was considering designing a new one? Did that ever come together?
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > --- In mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com, Charles Bliss <cbliss@>
                                > > > > > wrote:
                                > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > I have had it happen 3 times. First time, I used dielectric grease
                                > > > > > on
                                > > > > > > > > the DB9/25 connectors. Most recently used Deoxit Gold. It is working
                                > > > > > > > > OK at the moment.
                                > > > > > > > > On the most recent time, it would go forward, but not backwards.
                                > > > > > Clean
                                > > > > > > > > and Deoxit fixed that.
                                > > > > > > > > On 9/22/2012 10:52 AM, Ray Darby wrote:
                                > > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > > If it just creeps ever so slowly with a slight pulsation, it could
                                > > > > > be
                                > > > > > > > > > a bad connection on the DB9 &/or DB25 connectors....this problem
                                > > > > > > > > > (intermittent in my case)...
                                > > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                > > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > >
                                > > --
                                > > Thomas Hudson
                                > > http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power & More
                                > > http://klanky.com -- Animation Projects
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                > >
                                >
                                >

                                --
                                Thomas Hudson
                                http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power & More
                                http://klanky.com -- Animation Projects



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