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Re: [solectria_ev] '97 Force CALB 100 Upgrade

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  • Chandler Chip
    I am getting similar amps, but 210-215 amps in power mode for my 1997, 160Ah TSs. Chip Chandler cchandler66@roadrunner.com ... [Non-text portions of this
    Message 1 of 43 , Nov 13, 2012
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      I am getting similar amps, but 210-215 amps in power mode for my 1997, 160Ah TSs.

      Chip Chandler
      cchandler66@...


      On Nov 13, 2012, at 8:23 PM, Tom Hudson <tdhudson@...> wrote:

      > Well, my CALB upgrade project is officially complete! Today I finished installing the
      > kerosene tank for the fuel-fired heater and rolled it outside for a heater test -- It all
      > worked perfectly, so it's now ready for winter. I've uploaded a couple photos of the
      > finished engine compartment to the Photos section.
      >
      > I did take the car in to my mechanic last week and had the gearbox oil changed (he said
      > the oil he took out looked brand new, which while not surprising was great news) and had
      > him lube up anything that needed it. He also checked out a rubbing noise coming from one
      > of the front wheels -- turned out that it was a brake shield that had some rust on it
      > rubbing on the wheel, especially when turning. He fixed that up and now it rolls freely --
      > anything like that causes unnecessary drag and inefficiency, so it's great to get that fixed.
      >
      > So I've done a fair amount of driving in the car over the past week and am really happy
      > with the results -- I did a 27-mile drive on various speed limit roads a few days ago,
      > including a few miles at 55MPH, and when I got home I had only used about 25Ah -- .93 Ah
      > per mile, or 1.08 miles per Ah. This is so much better than what I was seeing with the
      > NiCDs! I drove the 55MPH portion of the trip in ECON power mode, something that would
      > have been impossible toward the end of the NiCD battery use -- they could barely get the
      > car up to 45 in POWER mode.
      >
      > So the old EV grin is back. Great to have this car fully back up and operating!
      >
      > When I get time, I'm going to take a look at how the motor controller is programmed, just
      > to see if there is anything going on there that should be adjusted.
      >
      > Out of curiosity, what are your cars set to for amp draw on the ECON, NORMAL and POWER
      > settings? In my car, it looks like ECON is set to about 60-70A, NORMAL is about 125A and
      > POWER is about 200A. Just curious if this is in line with other Forces.
      >
      > -Tom
      >
      > On 11/6/2012 12:30 PM, Tom Hudson wrote:
      > >
      > > Yeah, we'll see what happens with the CA cells. Worst-case scenario, if I see significant
      > > voltage sag when they're cold, I'll get in there and put the heater mats in. One reason I
      > > held off was that the heater mats I have are from the original lead-acid battery boxes --
      > > the rear box hasn't changed, but the front box was swapped out to a different form factor
      > > for the NiCDs in 2001 and has a different footprint, plus is a two-tier thing, so I'd have
      > > to modify the heater mat into two pieces for it. Not trivial. But it is an option, if
      > > necessary. Out of curiosity, has anyone ever worked with that heater mat material? It
      > > looks like it is just cut to whatever size you need, but I wonder what the story is with
      > > attaching the electrical leads. Gotta do that right!
      > >
      > > -Tom
      > >
      > > On 11/6/2012 8:48 AM, d. Bouton Baldridge wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Hi Tom,
      > > > This will be an interesting project. As Chip said I have found that Lifepo4 seems very
      > > > happy at higher temps above 80 I get quite adequate energy from a relatively small pack,
      > > > 40 Ah. The oposite is true, however below 60, I get a very significant voltage sag;
      > > > fortunately the controller stops the voltage from going below 127v so my only problem is
      > > > poor accelleration. I will be interested in your findings at your low temp garage on you
      > > > 2.5 times larger pack. I have found that a simple waterbed heater can keep my pack close
      > > > to 60 degrees, our winters are pretty mild, and even though my pack seems to be ok
      > > > after 4 years I am considering a larger pack next time and maybe forgo the use of the
      > > > heater. Good job.
      > > > Bouty
      > > >
      > > > ________________________________
      > > > From: Tom Hudson <tdhudson@... <mailto:tdhudson%40klanky.com>
      > > <mailto:tdhudson%40klanky.com>>
      > > > To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com <mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com>
      > > <mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com>
      > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 6, 2012 1:22 AM
      > > > Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] '97 Force CALB 100 Upgrade
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > I kind of follow Solectria's lead on the temperature sensor placement -- figuring that the
      > > > metal terminals would conduct heat out of the battery better than the plastic case, I
      > > > zip-tied the sensor to one of the terminals on a battery in the middle of the pack, then
      > > > applied a decent layer of RTV silicone caulk around it (but being careful to not get it
      > > > between the sensor and the metal of the terminal. The caulk acts as an insulator, so if
      > > > the battery box interior is warmer or cooler than the battery, the sensor will pick up the
      > > > true battery temperature.
      > > >
      > > > The NLG5 will connect to up to 3 temperature sensors but I just use 2, one in each box.
      > > > And since I'm using the CA series cells, which can deal with cooler temperatures, and
      > > > since my car gets charged in a heated garage, I didn't bother putting the heater mats back
      > > > in the boxes.
      > > >
      > > > I have a heated garage, but typically I only keep it at around 40 degrees F -- just enough
      > > > to keep the pipes from freezing. Occasionally I'll warm it up to 65 if I'm working on some
      > > > projects out there.
      > > >
      > > > -Tom
      > > >
      > > > On 11/5/2012 3:39 PM, Chandler Chip wrote:
      > > > > Congratulations, Tom.
      > > > >
      > > > > I am wondering where you placed your temp sensors in your battery boxes. I have two in
      > > > my rear box, one in the middle top between two cells, where I think the warmest location
      > > > would be, and one on the side halfway down in the narrow gap between the cells and the
      > > > inner wall. No insulation in or over my boxes except for the half inch (or whatever) on
      > > > the outside, and my heat pads are disconnected. I'll report in January on my temperature
      > > > findings, but so far have not had any readings on the high end that are close to being
      > > > alarming, even on 90 degree days (highest pack high temp was 102F after driving and
      > > > charging). In fact, as Bouty has said, these cells shine in a tropical setting.
      > > > Understandably the outside wall temp reading is almost always lower and the difference
      > > > is greater as the temperatures cool here in the NE. Knowing where you are taking your
      > > > readings, insulation, and use of pack heaters might help with any comparisons between
      > > > your CALB 100s
      > > > and my TS 160s (1997 Force, 8500 miles) since we are both living in the cold. Heated
      > > > garage? Thanks,
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > Chip Chandler
      > > > > mailto:cchandler66%40roadrunner.com
      > > > >
      > > > > On Nov 5, 2012, at 3:21 PM, Tom Hudson <mailto:tdhudson%40klanky.com> wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > >> OK, I'm just wrapping up some final bits and pieces on this car, but it is looking
      > > GREAT.
      > > > >> In process:
      > > > >>
      > > > >> * Wiring in the rear pack temperature sensor -- the front's went in the other day,
      > > > because
      > > > >> I needed to close up that battery box to get the controller in place for the test
      > > drive.
      > > > >> I don't have charge voltage temperature compensation programmed into the charger yet,
      > > > >> because I don't have any information on exactly what the compensation should be. Not a
      > > > >> big deal now because charging the batteries in my cool garage showed little or no
      > > > >> temperature increase, but I want to have that set up before the weather warms up next
      > > > year
      > > > >> -- at the very least, a derating of voltage and current when the battery
      > > temperature goes
      > > > >> above some threshold, just in case operating the car in hot weather causes some battery
      > > > >> heating.
      > > > >>
      > > > >> * Hooking up the fuel-fired heater -- When I put the NiCD batteries in this car back in
      > > > >> 2001-2002, the new battery box forced the controller to be mounted differently than
      > > > >> before, and there was no longer any room to fit the gallon-sized kerosene tank in the
      > > > >> engine compartment, so I simply left the heater disconnected and have relied on the
      > > > >> electric heat since then. I decided to get that all back up and running, so I refilled
      > > > >> the coolant, reconnected the hoses and old fuel tank and did a test-run of the heater a
      > > > >> couple of days ago -- after about 10 seconds, the little heater unit fired right
      > > up. The
      > > > >> fuel tank still won't fit, so I went to the US Plastic Corp website and found a 2-quart
      > > > >> one that will -- Should have that by the end of this week and will get it installed
      > > when
      > > > >> it arrives.
      > > > >>
      > > > >> * Trunk blocking and trim -- Once the rear temperature sensor is installed and that
      > > > >> battery box is bolted shut, I'll adjust the foam blocks around the new charger and
      > > > get the
      > > > >> carpeting back in there.
      > > > >>
      > > > >> * Take the car in tomorrow for a lube job, gearbox oil change and to check on a little
      > > > >> periodic rubbing sound coming from the front. I believe the sound is a brake needing
      > > > >> adjustment -- the sound varies with wheel speed, and if I press the brake pedal
      > > slightly,
      > > > >> the sound goes away.
      > > > >>
      > > > >> On Sunday, when the car had been sitting overnight, I went in and measured the battery
      > > > >> voltages, which were all within 0.02 volts of each other -- excellent.
      > > > >>
      > > > >> This morning I took a 14-mile drive at 45+ MPH just to see how the car would do.
      > > This is
      > > > >> the same trip where the motor heated up terribly a while back with the NiCDs. When
      > > I got
      > > > >> to the destination I popped the hood and felt the motor cooling fins, which were just
      > > > >> barely warm. The motor controller was ice cold. Checked again when I got home and
      > > > >> nothing was hot. It is amazing to me how efficient that motor controller is -- no waste
      > > > >> heat at all! The trip was 14.3 miles and took 14.4 Ah. Not bad, especially considering
      > > > >> that there is some friction in the system from that dragging brake (or whatever it is).
      > > > >>
      > > > >> Started a top-off charge when I got home and re-measured the voltages in the pack as it
      > > > >> was charging -- all batteries were at 3.35V (charge target voltage is 3.4V), no
      > > > variation.
      > > > >>
      > > > >> So, after I get the rubbing noise straightened out tomorrow and get the rear pack all
      > > > >> buttoned up, I consider this car 100% ready to go. All in all, a very easy upgrade. The
      > > > >> worst part was bottom-balancing all the batteries, which took about a week with two
      > > > >> Powerlab 6 chargers and battery swaps every couple of hours, with overnight
      > > discharges of
      > > > >> gangs of 3-4 batteries. Compared to the previous upgrade to NiCD batteries, which
      > > > >> involved massive amounts of fabrication work including coolant plumbing, this was a
      > > > cake walk.
      > > > >>
      > > > >> -Tom
      > > > >>
      > > > >> --
      > > > >> Thomas Hudson
      > > > >> http://portev.org/ -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power & More
      > > > >> http://klanky.com/ -- Animation Projects
      > > > >>
      > > > >>
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > ------------------------------------
      > > > >
      > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > --
      > > > Thomas Hudson
      > > > http://portev.org/ -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power & More
      > > > http://klanky.com/ -- Animation Projects
      > > >
      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > --
      > > Thomas Hudson
      > > http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power & More
      > > http://klanky.com -- Animation Projects
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      > >
      >
      > --
      > Thomas Hudson
      > http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power & More
      > http://klanky.com -- Animation Projects
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • m_sev@juno.com
      I think my charger (picture attached - label is illegible) is over-charging my batteries, can anyone point me in the direction of how to check and change the
      Message 43 of 43 , Nov 21, 2012
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        I think my charger (picture attached - label is illegible) is over-charging my batteries, can anyone point me in the direction of how to check and change the programming?

        Thanks,
        Mark

        ---------- Original Message ----------
        From: "geo_homsy2" <geo.homsy@...>
        To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [solectria_ev] Questions on NLG4 programming -- please help
        Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2012 19:08:50 -0000

        I have a few questions about NLG4 programming. Perhaps someone can help me.

        Specifically, I do not understand the following aspects of my default solectria charge profile (this was for the 13x Deka G27). Not understanding aspects of the factory profile, makes it very difficult for me to program a new profile.

        Here are my points of confusion:

        In section 1 of the profile, the U-limitation is 183.3. However, there is a criterion to pass to the next section, of "absolute voltage above 195.00". How in the world could this condition ever obtain, if the U-limitation is 183.3??

        Similarly, in section 2, the I-limitation is 3 amps. However, there is a condition to pass to previous section, of "Absolute current above 25 Amp". How can this condition ever be true?

        Also in section 2, there is a pass-to-next criterion of "multiplicated charge sum above 0.0". How is this condition ever NOT immediately true???

        What in the world is going on here? These conditions are absolutely meaningless, unless I really do not understand what the settings mean.

        And one final question: When does the charger decide to switch off? In section 3 of my original solectria profile, I-limitation is 9 amps, and U-limitation is 176.8 volts. There are no previous or next conditions. The green light (output 4) is on. Somehow, something in this section switches the charger off. Is it output 4? If so, then why is I-limitation set to non-zero???

        Does anyone have any elucidation for me? Or does anyone have a better manual for the NLG4 that discusses programming in more detail?

        Many thanks,

        //Geo





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