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corrosion inhibition, WAS Re: survey of lithium BMS

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  • geo_homsy2
    Hi all-- yes, corrosion on your battery terminals will REALLY screw up the performance of your BMS, whether distributed or centralized. As well as heating
    Message 1 of 15 , Oct 11, 2012
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      Hi all--

      yes, corrosion on your battery terminals will REALLY screw up the performance of your BMS, whether distributed or centralized. As well as heating your batteries and destroying your vehicle performance.

      To inhibit corrosion on my terminals, while installing my CALB-100's, I first lapped the terminals with 600 grit sandpaper (VERY NECESSARY since the terminals were pretty banged up from the factory). Then, a final clean with Chemtronics Electrowash PX (prod # ES1210). Finally, pre-assembly, a very light smearing with Chemtronics silver-filled conductive grease (prod # CW7100).

      The car's only been on the road for a month, so I don't know if this was all for naught, but I'll let y'all know in a year :)

      //Geo


      --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, Charles Bliss <cbliss@...> wrote:
      >
      > We have been selling them with batteries and use in our motorcycles. I
      > have been working with Lightning / Alliance for a couple years.
      >
      > I have experience with eLithion. Like all or most BMSs, the main
      > culprit is corrosion on connectors. Even if you cannot see it. I have
      > fixed a couple with DeoxIt gold. Of course, all warranties are void if
      > you run at Bonneville. ;-)
      >
      > On 10/8/2012 10:08 PM, geo_homsy2 wrote:
      > >
      > > Hmmmm, Alliance Renewables seems to only sell eLithion now. And google
      > > "lightning BMS" turns up nothing of interest. Which system is it that
      > > you have? Is it still available?
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
    • geo_homsy2
      I STILL cannot find any mention of the alliance BMS at all, anywhere. Can someone send me a pointer to some info? Many thanks, //Geo
      Message 2 of 15 , Oct 11, 2012
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        I STILL cannot find any mention of the alliance BMS at all, anywhere.

        Can someone send me a pointer to some info?

        Many thanks,

        //Geo

        --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "mikep_95133" <mikep_95133@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi Charles,
        >
        > I was just up to see Richard at his Alliance shop. There are 2 of us with interests in the Alliance system. I can't seem to find a fault with the design as a pre-owner. Is the system that fast? Around 1 second to scan all of the cells? Any noise or interference in your experience? Anything you would caution a new buyer about?
        >
        > How does the display look at night and in bright daylight?
        >
        > Richard says the system can handle 1.2v, 4v, and 12v cell/batteries. Any experience there? If it is that universal, then some of our lead guys can keep the same bms as they upgrade to other chemistry's.
        >
        > Mike
        >
        >
        >
        > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, Charles Bliss <cbliss@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Recently completed upgrade to 46x 100ah Thundersky batteries with
        > > Lightning / Alliance Renewable BMS.
        > > Perhaps about 500-800 miles so far on the lithium. Flawless. I cannot
        > > imagine running without a BMS.
        > >
        > > On 10/8/2012 2:43 PM, geo_homsy2 wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Hi all-
        > > >
        > > > I notice there are a LOT of lithium users on here who are generally
        > > > pretty quiet. I also notice, from the four people I know of, that many
        > > > do not use BMS systems.
        > > >
        > > > So: do any of the lithium conversion owners have a BMS? If so, which
        > > > one? And what is your opinion of it?
        > > >
        > > > I installed the eLithion on my conversion. I am happy with the
        > > > performance of the system, but I am not happy with the company, nor
        > > > the documentation.
        > > >
        > > > What have others' experiences been with BMS vendors and systems?
        > > >
        > > > Yours,
        > > > //Geo
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >
        >
      • Charles Bliss
        I was referring to the communication connections on the eLithium. That would be the small 5 pin Molex connectors that plug into the eLithium control box. The
        Message 3 of 15 , Oct 11, 2012
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          I was referring to the communication connections on the eLithium. That
          would be the small 5 pin Molex connectors that plug into the eLithium
          control box. The symptom is that it is not reporting the board(s).

          On 10/11/2012 11:26 AM, geo_homsy2 wrote:
          >
          > Hi all--
          >
          > yes, corrosion on your battery terminals will REALLY screw up the
          > performance of your BMS, whether distributed or centralized. As well
          > as heating your batteries and destroying your vehicle performance.
          >
          > To inhibit corrosion on my terminals, while installing my CALB-100's,
          > I first lapped the terminals with 600 grit sandpaper (VERY NECESSARY
          > since the terminals were pretty banged up from the factory). Then, a
          > final clean with Chemtronics Electrowash PX (prod # ES1210). Finally,
          > pre-assembly, a very light smearing with Chemtronics silver-filled
          > conductive grease (prod # CW7100).
          >
          > The car's only been on the road for a month, so I don't know if this
          > was all for naught, but I'll let y'all know in a year :)
          >
          > //Geo
          >
          > --- ...
          > > I have experience with eLithion. Like all or most BMSs, the main
          > > culprit is corrosion on connectors. Even if you cannot see it. I have
          > > fixed a couple with DeoxIt gold. Of course, all warranties are void if
          > > you run at Bonneville. ;-)
          > >
          >



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • geo_homsy2
          Ah. Mine has no five pin molex connectors. Do you have the lithiumate pro? //Geo
          Message 4 of 15 , Oct 12, 2012
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            Ah. Mine has no five pin molex connectors. Do you have the lithiumate pro?

            //Geo

            --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, Charles Bliss <cbliss@...> wrote:
            >
            > I was referring to the communication connections on the eLithium. That
            > would be the small 5 pin Molex connectors that plug into the eLithium
            > control box. The symptom is that it is not reporting the board(s).
            >
            > On 10/11/2012 11:26 AM, geo_homsy2 wrote:
            > >
            > > Hi all--
            > >
            > > yes, corrosion on your battery terminals will REALLY screw up the
            > > performance of your BMS, whether distributed or centralized. As well
            > > as heating your batteries and destroying your vehicle performance.
            > >
            > > To inhibit corrosion on my terminals, while installing my CALB-100's,
            > > I first lapped the terminals with 600 grit sandpaper (VERY NECESSARY
            > > since the terminals were pretty banged up from the factory). Then, a
            > > final clean with Chemtronics Electrowash PX (prod # ES1210). Finally,
            > > pre-assembly, a very light smearing with Chemtronics silver-filled
            > > conductive grease (prod # CW7100).
            > >
            > > The car's only been on the road for a month, so I don't know if this
            > > was all for naught, but I'll let y'all know in a year :)
            > >
            > > //Geo
            > >
            > > --- ...
            > > > I have experience with eLithion. Like all or most BMSs, the main
            > > > culprit is corrosion on connectors. Even if you cannot see it. I have
            > > > fixed a couple with DeoxIt gold. Of course, all warranties are void if
            > > > you run at Bonneville. ;-)
            > > >
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • Charles Bliss
            Yes, I was referring to http://elithion.com/lithiumate_pro.php ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            Message 5 of 15 , Oct 12, 2012
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              Yes, I was referring to http://elithion.com/lithiumate_pro.php
              On 10/12/2012 12:26 PM, geo_homsy2 wrote:
              >
              > Ah. Mine has no five pin molex connectors. Do you have the lithiumate pro?
              >
              > //Geo
              >
              > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
              > <mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com>, Charles Bliss <cbliss@...> wrote:
              > >
              > > I was referring to the communication connections on the eLithium. That
              > > would be the small 5 pin Molex connectors that plug into the eLithium
              > > control box. The symptom is that it is not reporting the board(s).
              > >
              >



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • DavideA
              ... For your convenience, here is a listing of all commercially available Li-ion BMSs out there: http://liionbms.com/php/bms_options.php. Also, this is an
              Message 6 of 15 , Oct 16, 2012
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                > do any of the lithium conversion owners have a BMS? If so, which one?

                For your convenience, here is a listing of all commercially available Li-ion BMSs out there: http://liionbms.com/php/bms_options.php. Also, this is an automatic selector to choose the best BMS for your application: http://liionbms.com/php/bms-selector.php


                dougb120 wrote:
                > I had the elithion bms in my car and had lots of trouble.

                You'll note that geo_homsy2 stated: "I installed the eLithion on my conversion. I am happy with the performance of the system,...". The stark contrast in these opinions suggests that the difference may be in the installer, not in the BMS.

                The Lithiumate Pro BMS is very versatile, but also very complex, and therefore not suited for the hobbyist. (The Lithiumate Lite - http://elithion.com/lithiumate_lite.php - is far far easier to use, and ideal for the hobbyists.)

                > Reliability was terrible, many of the cards on the batteries died,

                Elithion makes it very clear how careless users blow up their cell boards my making these common mistakes: http://lithiumate.elithion.com/php/cellboard_mistakes.php

                Roughly speaking, Elithion has two types of users: those who read and follow instructions, and those who don't. The former group has no problems with cell boards. The latter group would rather replace cell boards blown by improper installation than read the instructions. Unfortunately, it's easier to blame the manufacturer than one's own technique. Sorry for having to point this out, but it's just unfair when careless users wrongly accuse Elithion of shipping bad product.

                > ... the master controller became unreliable, reported faults when none existed.

                I truly, truly doubt that. Very valid faults reported by the BMS are ignored by certain users, who rationalize that they couldn't have made any mistakes, so the BMS must be wrong instead. The end result is a dead battery, through no fault of the BMS manufacturer. Don't kill the messenger: it's trying to save your battery.

                > I took it out and installed Minibms, I am very happy with it,

                I am very happy to hear that! The MiniBMS is a simple but decent BMS, and apparently it is perfectly suited in your case.

                geo_homsy2 wrote:
                > Alliance Renewables seems to only sell eLithion now

                Actually, no, Alliance For Renewable Energy is not an authorized reseller of Elithion products.

                > I am happy with the performance of the system, ...

                Thank you.

                >...but I am not happy with the company, ...

                Sorry to hear that. But, given that you're not a direct customer of Elithion, I can't imagine how we could have possibly done anything to cause that opinion.

                > ... nor the documentation.

                Ah! indeed you're right.
                The 2 Lithiumate manuals are full of information (today they span 186 web pages in total!) and grow by the day, as we fulfill more and more requests for suggestions on how to connect a BMS in your particular situation. Some times it takes some skill to find what you're looking for, and that's one reason why we have a tech support person (http://elithion.com/contact.php) to help you. Please take advantage of it: we are very glad to help.

                Davide
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