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Solectria Force Motor Questions

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  • ECE Prof
    We were having the jerky acceleration problem, and this morning it went over the top and began jerking and cutting out even at speed. This has happened
    Message 1 of 6 , Nov 6, 2011
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      We were having the jerky acceleration problem, and this morning it went over the top and began jerking and cutting out even at speed. This has happened before, and we pulled the motor out this afternoon and found that:
      1) The bolt holding the pinion gear on the main shaft was loose, even though I had applied a threadlocker to the bolt before reassembly last time.
      2) The loose bolt had allowed the shaft of the motor to shift, and scraped the black sectors off the sensor plate against the photocells on the circuit board. I noted that when I removed the speed sensor plate, the shaft of the motor was not being held in the motor! It felt as though I could pull the shaft out completely. Even with the sensor plate screwed on the shaft has considerable play in it, which does not seem right.

      Here are my questions:

      1. Is there something else I should do to keep the bolt in?

      2. Is there something else that is supposed to hold the shaft in the motor?
    • reed_bement
      See this thread: http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/solectria_ev/message/6758 -Reed
      Message 2 of 6 , Nov 6, 2011
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        See this thread:

        http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/solectria_ev/message/6758

        -Reed

        --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "ECE Prof" <jack.mottley@...> wrote:
        >
        > We were having the jerky acceleration problem, and this morning it went over the top and began jerking and cutting out even at speed. This has happened before, and we pulled the motor out this afternoon and found that:
        > 1) The bolt holding the pinion gear on the main shaft was loose, even though I had applied a threadlocker to the bolt before reassembly last time.
        > 2) The loose bolt had allowed the shaft of the motor to shift, and scraped the black sectors off the sensor plate against the photocells on the circuit board. I noted that when I removed the speed sensor plate, the shaft of the motor was not being held in the motor! It felt as though I could pull the shaft out completely. Even with the sensor plate screwed on the shaft has considerable play in it, which does not seem right.
        >
        > Here are my questions:
        >
        > 1. Is there something else I should do to keep the bolt in?
        >
        > 2. Is there something else that is supposed to hold the shaft in the motor?
        >
      • Steve Powers
        I d sure like to get to the bottom of this mystery of the jerky performance. Here is what I know for sure: 1) It seems to be on nearly all of these cars.
        Message 3 of 6 , Nov 6, 2011
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          I'd sure like to get to the bottom of this mystery of the jerky
          performance. Here is what I know for sure:

          1) It seems to be on nearly all of these cars. Doesn't seem to matter if
          it is belt drive or gear drive. But, it is very intermittent. I can't
          seem to turn the issue on and off so I know I don't know the cause. On my
          car, it is very infrequent, but very annoying when it happens.
          2) People who have completely rebuilt the drivetrain and replaced the speed
          sensor have still seen the issue.
          3) Various people have reported different "theories" as to what the problem
          may be:
          a) loose drive gear on motor - this is the most difficult and
          most invasive if you want to investigate and could make things worse if you
          are wrong and don't put it back together as well as it used to be.
          b) bad CV joints - You can probably tell if this is the issue by
          "powering through hard turns." If it creeks under power when turning, the
          CV joints are bad. I did find out that they can be rebuilt. I know they
          are non-standard. You can't just order a new set.
          c) controller issue with sense circuit - This is also difficult
          to determine. How would you know this is the issue unless you swap in a
          known good controller and the issue goes away. Not having a spare known
          good controller, there is pretty much no way to know if this is the issue
          or not.
          d) bad speed sensor or out of calibration speed sensor - Probably
          easy enough to inspect, but how do you really know if it is bad.

          So, what I want to know is if I can monitor the controller with a computer
          and figure out what is really going on. It seems monitoring it should (if
          they system has the features) be able to tell me if the controller is
          cutting out and for what reason. Does any one know if it can report the
          speed sensor readings or how to verify them? Rather than a fishing
          expedition, I'd rather collect some real data and understand the issue. If
          figured out, this may help everyone.

          Steve






          On Sun, Nov 6, 2011 at 6:35 PM, reed_bement <reedb@...> wrote:

          > **
          >
          >
          > See this thread:
          >
          > http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/solectria_ev/message/6758
          >
          > -Reed
          >
          >
          > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "ECE Prof" <jack.mottley@...> wrote:
          > >
          > > We were having the jerky acceleration problem, and this morning it went
          > over the top and began jerking and cutting out even at speed. This has
          > happened before, and we pulled the motor out this afternoon and found that:
          > > 1) The bolt holding the pinion gear on the main shaft was loose, even
          > though I had applied a threadlocker to the bolt before reassembly last time.
          > > 2) The loose bolt had allowed the shaft of the motor to shift, and
          > scraped the black sectors off the sensor plate against the photocells on
          > the circuit board. I noted that when I removed the speed sensor plate, the
          > shaft of the motor was not being held in the motor! It felt as though I
          > could pull the shaft out completely. Even with the sensor plate screwed on
          > the shaft has considerable play in it, which does not seem right.
          > >
          > > Here are my questions:
          > >
          > > 1. Is there something else I should do to keep the bolt in?
          > >
          > > 2. Is there something else that is supposed to hold the shaft in the
          > motor?
          > >
          >
          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Jack Mottley
          Reed, In your photo album 1998 Solectria Force, Motor Drive , the middle picture shows the end of the motor with the pinion gear in place. It appears there
          Message 4 of 6 , Nov 7, 2011
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            Reed,

            In your photo album "1998 Solectria Force, Motor Drive", the middle picture shows the end of the motor with the pinion gear in place. It appears there is a gasket or O ring around the outside of the largest bearing that is on the face of the motor. My motor does not have that black ring. Is that supposed to be press fit in with the bearing to keep everything captive?

            If you cannot figure out what I mean, I will take pictures this evening and post them.

            jack


            On Nov 6, 2011, at 6:35 PM, reed_bement wrote:

            > See this thread:
            >
            > http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/solectria_ev/message/6758
            >
            > -Reed
            >
            > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "ECE Prof" <jack.mottley@...> wrote:
            > >
            > > We were having the jerky acceleration problem, and this morning it went over the top and began jerking and cutting out even at speed. This has happened before, and we pulled the motor out this afternoon and found that:
            > > 1) The bolt holding the pinion gear on the main shaft was loose, even though I had applied a threadlocker to the bolt before reassembly last time.
            > > 2) The loose bolt had allowed the shaft of the motor to shift, and scraped the black sectors off the sensor plate against the photocells on the circuit board. I noted that when I removed the speed sensor plate, the shaft of the motor was not being held in the motor! It felt as though I could pull the shaft out completely. Even with the sensor plate screwed on the shaft has considerable play in it, which does not seem right.
            > >
            > > Here are my questions:
            > >
            > > 1. Is there something else I should do to keep the bolt in?
            > >
            > > 2. Is there something else that is supposed to hold the shaft in the motor?
            > >
            >
            >

            Jack Mottley
            mottley@...
            "$DO || !$DO ; try
            try: command not found" -- yoda, SWE5






            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Reed Bement
            Jack, I m on the road. I ll be back in my office next week, Monday and I can try and find out more then. Contact me then and I ll see what I can find. -Reed
            Message 5 of 6 , Nov 7, 2011
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              Jack, I'm on the road. I'll be back in my office next week, Monday and I can try and find out more then. Contact me then and I'll see what I can find. -Reed
              On 2011-11-07, at 4:43 AM, Jack Mottley wrote:

              > Reed,
              >
              > In your photo album "1998 Solectria Force, Motor Drive", the middle picture shows the end of the motor with the pinion gear in place. It appears there is a gasket or O ring around the outside of the largest bearing that is on the face of the motor. My motor does not have that black ring. Is that supposed to be press fit in with the bearing to keep everything captive?
              >
              > If you cannot figure out what I mean, I will take pictures this evening and post them.
              >
              > jack
              >
              >
              > On Nov 6, 2011, at 6:35 PM, reed_bement wrote:
              >
              >> See this thread:
              >>
              >> http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/solectria_ev/message/6758
              >>
              >> -Reed
              >>
              >> --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "ECE Prof" <jack.mottley@...> wrote:
              >>>
              >>> We were having the jerky acceleration problem, and this morning it went over the top and began jerking and cutting out even at speed. This has happened before, and we pulled the motor out this afternoon and found that:
              >>> 1) The bolt holding the pinion gear on the main shaft was loose, even though I had applied a threadlocker to the bolt before reassembly last time.
              >>> 2) The loose bolt had allowed the shaft of the motor to shift, and scraped the black sectors off the sensor plate against the photocells on the circuit board. I noted that when I removed the speed sensor plate, the shaft of the motor was not being held in the motor! It felt as though I could pull the shaft out completely. Even with the sensor plate screwed on the shaft has considerable play in it, which does not seem right.
              >>>
              >>> Here are my questions:
              >>>
              >>> 1. Is there something else I should do to keep the bolt in?
              >>>
              >>> 2. Is there something else that is supposed to hold the shaft in the motor?
              >>>
              >>
              >>
              >
              > Jack Mottley
              > mottley@...
              > "$DO || !$DO ; try
              > try: command not found" -- yoda, SWE5
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
            • davidharrington@verizon.net
              Hi Jack- I do believe the shaft should be pressed into the bearing and secured to the motor casing, a large bearing at the business and another bearing at the
              Message 6 of 6 , Nov 7, 2011
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                Hi Jack-

                I do believe the shaft should be pressed into the bearing and secured to the motor casing, a large bearing at the business and another bearing at the encoder end. I believe there is an O-ring to limit any vibrations from the turning shaft, so maybe that wore out?

                I do have a spare ACgtx20 motor that I have for sale if that could help at all. This is what mine looks like: http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/solectria-acgtx20-39611.html
                I'll check it when I get home to see what the bearing seals should look like.

                -David


                Nov 7, 2011 07:43:34 AM, solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com wrote:

                Reed,

                In your photo album "1998 Solectria Force, Motor Drive", the middle picture shows the end of the motor with the pinion gear in place. It appears there is a gasket or O ring around the outside of the largest bearing that is on the face of the motor. My motor does not have that black ring. Is that supposed to be press fit in with the bearing to keep everything captive?

                If you cannot figure out what I mean, I will take pictures this evening and post them.

                jack


                On Nov 6, 2011, at 6:35 PM, reed_bement wrote:

                > See this thread:
                >
                > http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/solectria_ev/message/6758
                >
                > -Reed
                >
                > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "ECE Prof" wrote:
                > >
                > > We were having the jerky acceleration problem, and this morning it went over the top and began jerking and cutting out even at speed. This has happened before, and we pulled the motor out this afternoon and found that:
                > > 1) The bolt holding the pinion gear on the main shaft was loose, even though I had applied a threadlocker to the bolt before reassembly last time.
                > > 2) The loose bolt had allowed the shaft of the motor to shift, and scraped the black sectors off the sensor plate against the photocells on the circuit board. I noted that when I removed the speed sensor plate, the shaft of the motor was not being held in the motor! It felt as though I could pull the shaft out completely. Even with the sensor plate screwed on the shaft has considerable play in it, which does not seem right.
                > >
                > > Here are my questions:
                > >
                > > 1. Is there something else I should do to keep the bolt in?
                > >
                > > 2. Is there something else that is supposed to hold the shaft in the motor?
                > >
                >
                >

                Jack Mottley
                mottley@...
                "$DO || !$DO ; try
                try: command not found" -- yoda, SWE5






                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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