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Proposed new tax on EV's

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  • Lawrence Winiarski
    This is currently an Oregon issue, but I wanted to warn people that this is being seriously considered in many other states and countries. Basically Oregon
    Message 1 of 12 , Mar 26 11:42 PM
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      This is currently an Oregon issue, but I wanted to warn people that
      this is being seriously considered in many other states and countries.

      Basically Oregon Dept. of Transportation has decided that they want to
      get rid of the gas tax and want to move to a GPS tracking system to
      determine road tax.

      This is seriously being considered and they have already done a pilot
      program (where they paid the drivers instead of taxing them)

      Now on the basis of the Pilot program they want to start taxing EV's
      in 2014.

      I am concerned that this program is a bad idea. The costs of
      implementation greatly outweigh the revenue generated. Replacing
      a very simple system (gas tax at the pump) with a complicated per mile
      system distributed over hundreds of millions of vehicles and then
      requiring an entire new bureaucracy which will have to be working in
      tandem for decades with the old system.

      AND a per mile system of road tax will also discourage fuel economy
      AND further discourage electric vehicles.


      I honestly can't see much good coming out of this. I think it's
      just another barrier to EV's that makes them less attractive.

      I'd appreciate comments if you have them.
    • Dan Fuller
      I completely agree- A mileage tax is a HORRIBLE idea!  In addition to being expensive, impractical and somewhat invasive, it encourages gas guzzling.  The
      Message 2 of 12 , Mar 27 8:18 AM
      • 0 Attachment
        I completely agree- A mileage tax is a HORRIBLE idea!  In addition to being expensive, impractical and somewhat invasive, it encourages gas guzzling.  The gas tax weights the tax against those who are wasteful and is easy on those who try conserve.  In addition, where is all this electronic gear produced?  I'd bet heavily that it's China that will get the jobs from the electronics.  Once again though, the oil companies would do well since they'd sell more fuel.  Is this proposal brought to you by the Koch brothers by any chance?

        --- On Sat, 3/26/11, Lawrence Winiarski <lawrence_winiarski@...> wrote:


        From: Lawrence Winiarski <lawrence_winiarski@...>
        Subject: [solectria_ev] Proposed new tax on EV's
        To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Saturday, March 26, 2011, 11:42 PM


         



        This is currently an Oregon issue, but I wanted to warn people that
        this is being seriously considered in many other states and countries.

        Basically Oregon Dept. of Transportation has decided that they want to
        get rid of the gas tax and want to move to a GPS tracking system to
        determine road tax.

        This is seriously being considered and they have already done a pilot
        program (where they paid the drivers instead of taxing them)

        Now on the basis of the Pilot program they want to start taxing EV's
        in 2014.

        I am concerned that this program is a bad idea. The costs of
        implementation greatly outweigh the revenue generated. Replacing
        a very simple system (gas tax at the pump) with a complicated per mile
        system distributed over hundreds of millions of vehicles and then
        requiring an entire new bureaucracy which will have to be working in
        tandem for decades with the old system.

        AND a per mile system of road tax will also discourage fuel economy
        AND further discourage electric vehicles.

        I honestly can't see much good coming out of this. I think it's
        just another barrier to EV's that makes them less attractive.

        I'd appreciate comments if you have them.











        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • d. Bouton Baldridge
        Unless your EV flys you are using the road infrastructure which costs a lot to maintain. All users are obligated to pay for the privilege to do so from as far
        Message 3 of 12 , Mar 27 8:24 AM
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          Unless your EV flys you are using the road infrastructure which costs a lot to
          maintain. All users are obligated to pay for the privilege to do so from as far
          back as the Roman empire using tolls. The "gas tax" of course is a misnomer is
          really a "road use tax" which became a "gas tax" because it was for 100 years
          the easiest way to fund the very expensive conveyance we call roads. Evs up
          until only a few years ago were exempt obviously because they don't use gas. The
          weight of most EVs  which has a direct relationship with road wear, however were
          higher than their conventional counter part ICEs so Evs were causing degradation
          without paying for the repairs which is only fair regardless of all of the other
          benefits that EVs provide.

          Perhaps if you were to suggest a better way to divide the road infrastructure
          burden equitably your legislators might listen. In the mean time we Ev ers will
          just have to enjoy the little time left of not paying our way on the roads by
          not using them any more than we have to. The free lunch from cheap fossil
          fuels is nearly over, this is only one small issue, of the many, facing us as we
          move from this time of extreme global adjustment to a new period of reality
          checks and assessments.

          If you don't like my answer, I am sorry, but you asked, don't shoot the
          messenger.   

           




          ________________________________
          From: Lawrence Winiarski <lawrence_winiarski@...>
          To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Sun, March 27, 2011 2:42:58 AM
          Subject: [solectria_ev] Proposed new tax on EV's

           
          This is currently an Oregon issue, but I wanted to warn people that
          this is being seriously considered in many other states and countries.

          Basically Oregon Dept. of Transportation has decided that they want to
          get rid of the gas tax and want to move to a GPS tracking system to
          determine road tax.

          This is seriously being considered and they have already done a pilot
          program (where they paid the drivers instead of taxing them)

          Now on the basis of the Pilot program they want to start taxing EV's
          in 2014.

          I am concerned that this program is a bad idea. The costs of
          implementation greatly outweigh the revenue generated. Replacing
          a very simple system (gas tax at the pump) with a complicated per mile
          system distributed over hundreds of millions of vehicles and then
          requiring an entire new bureaucracy which will have to be working in
          tandem for decades with the old system.

          AND a per mile system of road tax will also discourage fuel economy
          AND further discourage electric vehicles.

          I honestly can't see much good coming out of this. I think it's
          just another barrier to EV's that makes them less attractive.

          I'd appreciate comments if you have them.







          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Lawrence Winiarski
          I just wanted to comment.   It s not that I don t want to pay for roads.    I havean internal combustion car also and have never complained about gas taxes.
          Message 4 of 12 , Mar 27 8:56 AM
          • 0 Attachment
            I just wanted to comment.   It's not that I don't want to pay for roads.    I havean internal combustion car also and have never complained about gas taxes.
            But we need to draw a line at some point where the added trouble to try and makethings "fair" just isn't worth it fiscally.   This will be an undue hardship for EV's thatwill require them to fill out forms and pay bills and maintain equipment that no one else is required to do.    
            And what happens if the electronics fail?   Who will be responsible?   Who willpay for the broken equipment?    How will plug in hybrids be affected? 
            It's just a very complicated solution to a problem that only exists in a few peoplesminds that they are jealous that EV's don't pay road taxes.  
            (like houseboats don't pay property tax)
            FYI.     There are probably only about 1000 EV's in regular service in Oregon andthis program has already cost $3,000,000.    And the proposed tax is only 0.6cents/mile.
            So basically they will spend millions and millions of dollars to collect perhapsa few hundred thousand dollars.   So this proposal won't generate any money. 
            Let me repeat this.   This program will cost more to implement than it will take in.
            I'd be against this even if I didn't have an electric car.   I just doesn't make sense.

            --- On Sun, 3/27/11, d. Bouton Baldridge <cfrkeepr@...> wrote:

            From: d. Bouton Baldridge <cfrkeepr@...>
            Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Proposed new tax on EV's
            To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Sunday, March 27, 2011, 8:24 AM
















             









            Unless your EV flys you are using the road infrastructure which costs a lot to

            maintain. All users are obligated to pay for the privilege to do so from as far

            back as the Roman empire using tolls. The "gas tax" of course is a misnomer is

            really a "road use tax" which became a "gas tax" because it was for 100 years

            the easiest way to fund the very expensive conveyance we call roads. Evs up

            until only a few years ago were exempt obviously because they don't use gas. The

            weight of most EVs  which has a direct relationship with road wear, however were

            higher than their conventional counter part ICEs so Evs were causing degradation

            without paying for the repairs which is only fair regardless of all of the other

            benefits that EVs provide.



            Perhaps if you were to suggest a better way to divide the road infrastructure

            burden equitably your legislators might listen. In the mean time we Ev ers will

            just have to enjoy the little time left of not paying our way on the roads by

            not using them any more than we have to. The free lunch from cheap fossil

            fuels is nearly over, this is only one small issue, of the many, facing us as we

            move from this time of extreme global adjustment to a new period of reality

            checks and assessments.



            If you don't like my answer, I am sorry, but you asked, don't shoot the

            messenger.   



             



            ________________________________

            From: Lawrence Winiarski <lawrence_winiarski@...>

            To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com

            Sent: Sun, March 27, 2011 2:42:58 AM

            Subject: [solectria_ev] Proposed new tax on EV's



             

            This is currently an Oregon issue, but I wanted to warn people that

            this is being seriously considered in many other states and countries.



            Basically Oregon Dept. of Transportation has decided that they want to

            get rid of the gas tax and want to move to a GPS tracking system to

            determine road tax.



            This is seriously being considered and they have already done a pilot

            program (where they paid the drivers instead of taxing them)



            Now on the basis of the Pilot program they want to start taxing EV's

            in 2014.



            I am concerned that this program is a bad idea. The costs of

            implementation greatly outweigh the revenue generated. Replacing

            a very simple system (gas tax at the pump) with a complicated per mile

            system distributed over hundreds of millions of vehicles and then

            requiring an entire new bureaucracy which will have to be working in

            tandem for decades with the old system.



            AND a per mile system of road tax will also discourage fuel economy

            AND further discourage electric vehicles.



            I honestly can't see much good coming out of this. I think it's

            just another barrier to EV's that makes them less attractive.



            I'd appreciate comments if you have them.



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



























            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • thp024
            I m not up to date on all the specifics of the Oregon law, but I guess I m not entirely opposed to point-of-use taxes, especially for roads. One big way large
            Message 5 of 12 , Mar 27 9:32 AM
            • 0 Attachment
              I'm not up to date on all the specifics of the Oregon law, but I guess I'm not entirely opposed to point-of-use taxes, especially for roads. One big way large corporations get away with being expensive free-riders on our road network is by only paying gas tax and then not contributing to other sources of revenue that fund the roads. If roads were converted entirely, or mostly, to a use-based tax (say tolls), the actual users would fully fund the road system. This would dis-incentive-ise auto use, and promote the use of trains and bikes, etc., and probably get people to live in the vicinity of where they work and play. Lets face it, the auto is the most energy expensive form of transport, even if you save 5% IN AN ev. Plus, knowing how much they don't contribute to the road funding may change some peoples minds about their stance on privatization and the public good. Remember, the oil that goes into roadway pavement is used by EV drivers as well, and we should pay our share for what we use, too.

              Tim
              Land use planner
              Madison, WI

              --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "d. Bouton Baldridge" <cfrkeepr@...> wrote:
              >
              > Unless your EV flys you are using the road infrastructure which costs a lot to
              > maintain. All users are obligated to pay for the privilege to do so from as far
              > back as the Roman empire using tolls. The "gas tax" of course is a misnomer is
              > really a "road use tax" which became a "gas tax" because it was for 100 years
              > the easiest way to fund the very expensive conveyance we call roads. Evs up
              > until only a few years ago were exempt obviously because they don't use gas. The
              > weight of most EVs  which has a direct relationship with road wear, however were
              > higher than their conventional counter part ICEs so Evs were causing degradation
              > without paying for the repairs which is only fair regardless of all of the other
              > benefits that EVs provide.
              >
              > Perhaps if you were to suggest a better way to divide the road infrastructure
              > burden equitably your legislators might listen. In the mean time we Ev ers will
              > just have to enjoy the little time left of not paying our way on the roads by
              > not using them any more than we have to. The free lunch from cheap fossil
              > fuels is nearly over, this is only one small issue, of the many, facing us as we
              > move from this time of extreme global adjustment to a new period of reality
              > checks and assessments.
              >
              > If you don't like my answer, I am sorry, but you asked, don't shoot the
              > messenger.   
              >
              >  
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > ________________________________
              > From: Lawrence Winiarski <lawrence_winiarski@...>
              > To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Sun, March 27, 2011 2:42:58 AM
              > Subject: [solectria_ev] Proposed new tax on EV's
              >
              >  
              > This is currently an Oregon issue, but I wanted to warn people that
              > this is being seriously considered in many other states and countries.
              >
              > Basically Oregon Dept. of Transportation has decided that they want to
              > get rid of the gas tax and want to move to a GPS tracking system to
              > determine road tax.
              >
              > This is seriously being considered and they have already done a pilot
              > program (where they paid the drivers instead of taxing them)
              >
              > Now on the basis of the Pilot program they want to start taxing EV's
              > in 2014.
              >
              > I am concerned that this program is a bad idea. The costs of
              > implementation greatly outweigh the revenue generated. Replacing
              > a very simple system (gas tax at the pump) with a complicated per mile
              > system distributed over hundreds of millions of vehicles and then
              > requiring an entire new bureaucracy which will have to be working in
              > tandem for decades with the old system.
              >
              > AND a per mile system of road tax will also discourage fuel economy
              > AND further discourage electric vehicles.
              >
              > I honestly can't see much good coming out of this. I think it's
              > just another barrier to EV's that makes them less attractive.
              >
              > I'd appreciate comments if you have them.
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • Dan Fuller
              I also am not opposed to contributing my fair shair to road maintenance, but a HUGE part of this bill as described is GETTING RID of the GAS tax.  You d pay
              Message 6 of 12 , Mar 27 9:58 AM
              • 0 Attachment
                I also am not opposed to contributing my fair shair to road maintenance, but a HUGE part of this bill as described is GETTING RID of the GAS tax.  You'd pay the same per-mile cost whether you drive a moped or an H1 Hummer.  That is NOT equitable.  Our EVs may be heavier than the same model gas car, but look at the numbers:  Our EVs are STILL lighter than the average car, and are much lighter than the minivans and SUVs in common use for single occupant trips.  Once EVs are common, by all means set up a per-mile tax.  But still- give those who are trying to do the right thing a break, and give those who aren't trying yet an incentive to do so.

                --- On Sun, 3/27/11, thp024 <thp024@...> wrote:


                From: thp024 <thp024@...>
                Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: Proposed new tax on EV's
                To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Sunday, March 27, 2011, 9:32 AM


                 



                I'm not up to date on all the specifics of the Oregon law, but I guess I'm not entirely opposed to point-of-use taxes, especially for roads. One big way large corporations get away with being expensive free-riders on our road network is by only paying gas tax and then not contributing to other sources of revenue that fund the roads. If roads were converted entirely, or mostly, to a use-based tax (say tolls), the actual users would fully fund the road system. This would dis-incentive-ise auto use, and promote the use of trains and bikes, etc., and probably get people to live in the vicinity of where they work and play. Lets face it, the auto is the most energy expensive form of transport, even if you save 5% IN AN ev. Plus, knowing how much they don't contribute to the road funding may change some peoples minds about their stance on privatization and the public good. Remember, the oil that goes into roadway pavement is used by EV drivers as well, and we
                should pay our share for what we use, too.

                Tim
                Land use planner
                Madison, WI

                --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "d. Bouton Baldridge" <cfrkeepr@...> wrote:
                >
                > Unless your EV flys you are using the road infrastructure which costs a lot to
                > maintain. All users are obligated to pay for the privilege to do so from as far
                > back as the Roman empire using tolls. The "gas tax" of course is a misnomer is
                > really a "road use tax" which became a "gas tax" because it was for 100 years
                > the easiest way to fund the very expensive conveyance we call roads. Evs up
                > until only a few years ago were exempt obviously because they don't use gas. The
                > weight of most EVs  which has a direct relationship with road wear, however were
                > higher than their conventional counter part ICEs so Evs were causing degradation
                > without paying for the repairs which is only fair regardless of all of the other
                > benefits that EVs provide.
                >
                > Perhaps if you were to suggest a better way to divide the road infrastructure
                > burden equitably your legislators might listen. In the mean time we Ev ers will
                > just have to enjoy the little time left of not paying our way on the roads by
                > not using them any more than we have to. The free lunch from cheap fossil
                > fuels is nearly over, this is only one small issue, of the many, facing us as we
                > move from this time of extreme global adjustment to a new period of reality
                > checks and assessments.
                >
                > If you don't like my answer, I am sorry, but you asked, don't shoot the
                > messenger.   
                >
                >  
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > ________________________________
                > From: Lawrence Winiarski <lawrence_winiarski@...>
                > To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Sun, March 27, 2011 2:42:58 AM
                > Subject: [solectria_ev] Proposed new tax on EV's
                >
                >  
                > This is currently an Oregon issue, but I wanted to warn people that
                > this is being seriously considered in many other states and countries.
                >
                > Basically Oregon Dept. of Transportation has decided that they want to
                > get rid of the gas tax and want to move to a GPS tracking system to
                > determine road tax.
                >
                > This is seriously being considered and they have already done a pilot
                > program (where they paid the drivers instead of taxing them)
                >
                > Now on the basis of the Pilot program they want to start taxing EV's
                > in 2014.
                >
                > I am concerned that this program is a bad idea. The costs of
                > implementation greatly outweigh the revenue generated. Replacing
                > a very simple system (gas tax at the pump) with a complicated per mile
                > system distributed over hundreds of millions of vehicles and then
                > requiring an entire new bureaucracy which will have to be working in
                > tandem for decades with the old system.
                >
                > AND a per mile system of road tax will also discourage fuel economy
                > AND further discourage electric vehicles.
                >
                > I honestly can't see much good coming out of this. I think it's
                > just another barrier to EV's that makes them less attractive.
                >
                > I'd appreciate comments if you have them.
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >











                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Jim Coate
                My biggest concern is the *tracking* part of this idea. If the state wants to know how many miles I drive each year, then just use the mileage recorded at the
                Message 7 of 12 , Mar 27 2:15 PM
                • 0 Attachment
                  My biggest concern is the *tracking* part of this idea. If the state
                  wants to know how many miles I drive each year, then just use the
                  mileage recorded at the yearly inspection.

                  Requiring GPS tracking in every vehicle gives big brother a whole new
                  way to watch what I'm doing every minute of the day. Scary. And makes
                  some (overseas) companies rich selling high tech gadgets we don't need.

                  Perhaps a system that uses yearly mileage (from the odometer not a GPS
                  tracker) multiplied by some factor to account for vehicle weight and
                  number of wheels?


                  Lawrence Winiarski wrote:
                  > This is currently an Oregon issue, but I wanted to warn people that
                  > this is being seriously considered in many other states and countries.
                  >
                  > Basically Oregon Dept. of Transportation has decided that they want to
                  > get rid of the gas tax and want to move to a GPS tracking system to
                  > determine road tax.
                  >


                  = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
                  NOTE: Mail sent to the "NO_REPLY" address will *not* reach me.
                  To send me a private message, please follow the directions here:
                  http://www.coate.org/contact_jim/
                  = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
                • Doug Brentlinger
                  I live in california and they can track where i am if i have my bay area fast pass in my vehicle, I don t carry it with me, I don t want them knowing where I
                  Message 8 of 12 , Mar 27 5:41 PM
                  • 0 Attachment
                    I live in california and they can track where i am if i have my bay area fast
                    pass in my vehicle, I don't carry it with me, I don't want them knowing where I
                    am. I don't like having this kind of stuff forced on me.





                    ________________________________
                    From: Jim Coate <jbc_lists_no_reply@...>
                    To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Sun, March 27, 2011 2:15:16 PM
                    Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Proposed new tax on EV's


                    My biggest concern is the *tracking* part of this idea. If the state
                    wants to know how many miles I drive each year, then just use the
                    mileage recorded at the yearly inspection.

                    Requiring GPS tracking in every vehicle gives big brother a whole new
                    way to watch what I'm doing every minute of the day. Scary. And makes
                    some (overseas) companies rich selling high tech gadgets we don't need.

                    Perhaps a system that uses yearly mileage (from the odometer not a GPS
                    tracker) multiplied by some factor to account for vehicle weight and
                    number of wheels?

                    Lawrence Winiarski wrote:
                    > This is currently an Oregon issue, but I wanted to warn people that
                    > this is being seriously considered in many other states and countries.
                    >
                    > Basically Oregon Dept. of Transportation has decided that they want to
                    > get rid of the gas tax and want to move to a GPS tracking system to
                    > determine road tax.
                    >

                    = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
                    NOTE: Mail sent to the "NO_REPLY" address will *not* reach me.
                    To send me a private message, please follow the directions here:
                    http://www.coate.org/contact_jim/
                    = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =




                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • paul doe
                        If you buy into conspiracy theory ala Enemy of the State then I wouldn t be carrying around a cell phone either (especially the new ones with the GPS
                    Message 9 of 12 , Mar 27 8:26 PM
                    • 0 Attachment
                          If you buy into conspiracy theory ala "Enemy of the State" then I wouldn't be carrying around a cell phone either (especially the new ones with the GPS capability).  All depends on your level of paranoia...  OBTW... When you watch the movie with Gene Hackman and Will Smith keep in mind the technology portrayed is over a decade old! 

                      --- On Sun, 3/27/11, Doug Brentlinger <dougb120@...> wrote:


                      From: Doug Brentlinger <dougb120@...>
                      Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Proposed new tax on EV's
                      To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                      Date: Sunday, March 27, 2011, 8:41 PM


                      I live in california and they can track where i am if i have my bay area fast
                      pass in my vehicle, I don't carry it with me, I don't want them knowing where I
                      am.  I don't like having this kind of stuff forced on me.





                      ________________________________
                      From: Jim Coate <jbc_lists_no_reply@...>
                      To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Sun, March 27, 2011 2:15:16 PM
                      Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Proposed new tax on EV's

                       
                      My biggest concern is the *tracking* part of this idea. If the state
                      wants to know how many miles I drive each year, then just use the
                      mileage recorded at the yearly inspection.

                      Requiring GPS tracking in every vehicle gives big brother a whole new
                      way to watch what I'm doing every minute of the day. Scary. And makes
                      some (overseas) companies rich selling high tech gadgets we don't need.

                      Perhaps a system that uses yearly mileage (from the odometer not a GPS
                      tracker) multiplied by some factor to account for vehicle weight and
                      number of wheels?

                      Lawrence Winiarski wrote:
                      > This is currently an Oregon issue, but I wanted to warn people that
                      > this is being seriously considered in many other states and countries.
                      >
                      > Basically Oregon Dept. of Transportation has decided that they want to
                      > get rid of the gas tax and want to move to a GPS tracking system to
                      > determine road tax.
                      >

                      = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
                      NOTE: Mail sent to the "NO_REPLY" address will *not* reach me.
                      To send me a private message, please follow the directions here:
                      http://www.coate.org/contact_jim/
                      = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =




                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                      ------------------------------------

                      Yahoo! Groups Links





                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Eric Krofchak
                      My 2cents, I live in NJ very near to NY and PA. If someone around here implements something like this would I have to get 3 separate transmitters from 3
                      Message 10 of 12 , Mar 27 10:13 PM
                      • 0 Attachment
                        My 2cents,

                        I live in NJ very near to NY and PA. If someone around here implements
                        something like this would I have to get 3 separate transmitters from 3
                        separate states. What if one implements and the others don't. Do I have to
                        pay the gas tax and the GPS tax depending upon where I bought the gas (or
                        electricity). Do people or trucks just passing thru have to get devices
                        or do
                        they get a free pass on the tax because its not being charged at the pump.
                        In many places in NY city gps's don't work because of the tall
                        buildings, could
                        I drive around the city free. What happens when bright people realize how
                        easy it is to just shield or jam the units from getting a signal with a
                        little tin
                        foil. The permutations and problems with this scheme are endless.
                        They may waste a few million trying to implement it but in the
                        end I think the problems will simply be too great.

                        Eric







                        On 3/27/2011 2:42 AM, Lawrence Winiarski wrote:
                        >
                        > This is currently an Oregon issue, but I wanted to warn people that
                        > this is being seriously considered in many other states and countries.
                        >
                        > Basically Oregon Dept. of Transportation has decided that they want to
                        > get rid of the gas tax and want to move to a GPS tracking system to
                        > determine road tax.
                        >
                        > This is seriously being considered and they have already done a pilot
                        > program (where they paid the drivers instead of taxing them)
                        >
                        > Now on the basis of the Pilot program they want to start taxing EV's
                        > in 2014.
                        >
                        > I am concerned that this program is a bad idea. The costs of
                        > implementation greatly outweigh the revenue generated. Replacing
                        > a very simple system (gas tax at the pump) with a complicated per mile
                        > system distributed over hundreds of millions of vehicles and then
                        > requiring an entire new bureaucracy which will have to be working in
                        > tandem for decades with the old system.
                        >
                        > AND a per mile system of road tax will also discourage fuel economy
                        > AND further discourage electric vehicles.
                        >
                        > I honestly can't see much good coming out of this. I think it's
                        > just another barrier to EV's that makes them less attractive.
                        >
                        > I'd appreciate comments if you have them.
                        >
                        >



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                      • Lawrence Winiarski
                        Yeah and then complicate it with plug-in hybrids.   Some of the gas might or mightnot be taxed and some of the driving might be from electricity and some may
                        Message 11 of 12 , Mar 27 10:56 PM
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Yeah and then complicate it with plug-in hybrids.   Some of the gas might or mightnot be taxed and some of the driving might be from electricity and some may befrom gasoline.   And some states might tax the gas, and others not.
                          And EV drivers usually don't drive that far anyway because of range issues so therevenue is gonna be miniscule compared to the cost of implementation.
                          And for god's sake, why not let the EV drivers drive for free?  I'd say that even if I wasn't anEV driver.     We've got lots and lots and lots of real problems facing this country andfiguring a way to tax EV drivers (who have been around for 100 YEARS) just seems odd.If more people started driving EV's then likely the wear and tear would go down..not upbecause most EV's are actually smaller cars.
                          And why not let the EV drivers get some public benefit?   We reduce smog, we leavemore fossil fuels for the other guy, I doubt a single EV driver is doing this to get outof paying road taxes.   And the argument that I have to pay for the roads, I could alsomake that the fossil fuel guys ought to pay for polluting MY air.    _._,___

















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                        • anbausa
                          This thread is getting way too much into the political areana. Consider it ended. Moderator
                          Message 12 of 12 , Mar 28 8:30 AM
                          • 0 Attachment
                            This thread is getting way too much into the political areana. Consider it ended.

                            Moderator

                            --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, Lawrence Winiarski <lawrence_winiarski@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Yeah and then complicate it with plug-in hybrids.   Some of the gas might or mightnot be taxed and some of the driving might be from electricity and some may befrom gasoline.   And some states might tax the gas, and others not.
                            > And EV drivers usually don't drive that far anyway because of range issues so therevenue is gonna be miniscule compared to the cost of implementation.
                            > And for god's sake, why not let the EV drivers drive for free?  I'd say that even if I wasn't anEV driver.     We've got lots and lots and lots of real problems facing this country andfiguring a way to tax EV drivers (who have been around for 100 YEARS) just seems odd.If more people started driving EV's then likely the wear and tear would go down..not upbecause most EV's are actually smaller cars.
                            > And why not let the EV drivers get some public benefit?   We reduce smog, we leavemore fossil fuels for the other guy, I doubt a single EV driver is doing this to get outof paying road taxes.   And the argument that I have to pay for the roads, I could alsomake that the fossil fuel guys ought to pay for polluting MY air.    _._,___
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