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Re: [solectria_ev] Howdy all

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  • d. Bouton Baldridge
    hey Gordon, I don t think I am on that list either. Thanks, Bouty 1992 Force 2000 Ranger EV ________________________________ From: Gordon Stallings
    Message 1 of 9 , Jul 14, 2010
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      hey Gordon,
      I don't think I am on that list either.
      Thanks,
      Bouty
      1992 Force
      2000 Ranger EV




      ________________________________
      From: Gordon Stallings <genki@...>
      To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Tue, July 13, 2010 10:12:07 PM
      Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Howdy all

       
      Welcome, Kevin!

      I've put together a little spreadsheet of Solectria owners. It's on
      Google Docs, by invitation only. I've sent you a message with a link.
      Anybody else who's not on the sheet but would like to be: Just speak
      up and I'll tie you in.
      Also, if you've sold your vehicle, please update or remove your row in
      the table.

      --Gordon Stallings--
      '96 Force
      '99 Force

      On Jul 13, 2010, at 7:52 PM, dexion111 wrote:

      > New member here just saying hello.
      >
      > I have a 98 force arriving tonight at 12am est (not running,
      > condition unknown I like a challange.)
      >
      > 8K miles in nice physical shape definately dead batteries.
      >
      > Key on run produces nothing (no lights/horn, radio etc.)
      >
      > From the service manual I dont see any 12V accessory battery just a
      > dc to dc so I would assume there is a LVC built in somewhere
      > (batteries are low or dead is about all the person I bought it from
      > can say he didnt know anything about it and it scared him.)
      >
      > I have 2 working ev's at the moment (both converted, a 95 saturn
      > converted to lead acid floodies then to Lifepo4 (48 100ah cells) and
      > a scooter with 21 60 ah TS cells in it. I have good knowledge of Dc
      > series motors/controllers this is my first ac conversion however.
      > Seems pretty straight forward just jump over my 48 cell lifepo pack
      > to the force (after disabling the existing pack) or trying to charge
      > up the existing batteries (i have a single 12volt gell cell charger
      > that will do 2,6 and 10 amps) and see if it will light up and fix
      > the stuff that wont.
      >
      > Anyone have any lifepo4 questions I would be happy to answer them (I
      > can also suggest a few places that have them in stock in the usa for
      > delivery as opposed to sending 6K over seas and waiting 8 weeks and
      > hopping not to lose your money if anyone is interested.)
      >
      > Any gotchas on the force for reviving one with dead batteries?
      >
      > Anyone know where the lvc kicks in 130V perhaps (its a 156V nominal
      > model.)
      >
      > Someone replaced the brusa with a zivan for me already which was
      > nice of them (assuming the profile is for gels...) so thats one less
      > worry.
      >
      > Without knowing the condition I understand its hard to give advice
      > but any general pointers would be greatly appreciated.
      >
      > Thanks
      > Kevin
      >







      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Tom Hudson
      Kevin, The first thing you ll want to do is see if the Service Disconnect connector is disconnected. This removes power from everything, including the DC-DC
      Message 2 of 9 , Jul 14, 2010
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        Kevin,

        The first thing you'll want to do is see if the Service Disconnect
        connector is disconnected. This removes power from everything,
        including the DC-DC converter.

        If that is connected, disconnect the motor controller from the main
        power at its large gray Anderson connector and measure the voltage on
        the connector that is attached to the car's frame. If there is no
        voltage there, it's possible the batteries are not fully connected or
        that one of the fuses (there are two -- one in each battery box) are
        blown. The latter is probably pretty unlikely.

        Most likely, the battery voltage is just too low to boot the DC-DC
        converter.

        Good luck! Sounds like you have a service manual, which is good.
        Follow the troubleshooting procedures in there and you should have
        little trouble getting the car going.

        -Tom

        dexion111 wrote:
        >
        >
        > New member here just saying hello.
        >
        > I have a 98 force arriving tonight at 12am est (not running, condition
        > unknown I like a challange.)
        >
        > 8K miles in nice physical shape definately dead batteries.
        >
        > Key on run produces nothing (no lights/horn, radio etc.)
        >
        > >From the service manual I dont see any 12V accessory battery just a
        > dc to dc so I would assume there is a LVC built in somewhere
        > (batteries are low or dead is about all the person I bought it from
        > can say he didnt know anything about it and it scared him.)
        >
        > I have 2 working ev's at the moment (both converted, a 95 saturn
        > converted to lead acid floodies then to Lifepo4 (48 100ah cells) and a
        > scooter with 21 60 ah TS cells in it. I have good knowledge of Dc
        > series motors/controllers this is my first ac conversion however.
        > Seems pretty straight forward just jump over my 48 cell lifepo pack to
        > the force (after disabling the existing pack) or trying to charge up
        > the existing batteries (i have a single 12volt gell cell charger that
        > will do 2,6 and 10 amps) and see if it will light up and fix the stuff
        > that wont.
        >
        > Anyone have any lifepo4 questions I would be happy to answer them (I
        > can also suggest a few places that have them in stock in the usa for
        > delivery as opposed to sending 6K over seas and waiting 8 weeks and
        > hopping not to lose your money if anyone is interested.)
        >
        > Any gotchas on the force for reviving one with dead batteries?
        >
        > Anyone know where the lvc kicks in 130V perhaps (its a 156V nominal
        > model.)
        >
        > Someone replaced the brusa with a zivan for me already which was nice
        > of them (assuming the profile is for gels...) so thats one less worry.
        >
        > Without knowing the condition I understand its hard to give advice but
        > any general pointers would be greatly appreciated.
        >
        > Thanks
        > Kevin
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • kevin lubot
        All were connected. Fuses/all battery wires have continuity (including dc-dc etc) total charge on the entire pack : 10.21 V heh   Ive got a gel cell regen
        Message 3 of 9 , Jul 14, 2010
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          All were connected. Fuses/all battery wires have continuity (including dc-dc etc)
          total charge on the entire pack : 10.21 V heh
           
          Ive got a gel cell regen charger ill try out on the cells (not really much hope however)
           
          I think ill just toss in the lifepo4's i have this weekend (48 100 ah Blackhawk lifepo4 cells) they are a bit tall but I eyeballed the back battery box and it looks like I can get all 48 in the back compartment and I have 3 (110V) chargers set to 168V and lifepo4 profiles. I just need to figure out the front battery box. Ill have to bypass it and remove the 5 cells up front.
           
          Assuming all goes well I just need to have the zivan reprogrammed to lifepo4 (it would be nice to charge at 18 amps instead of 6) from gel and have it finish at 170V or so not the 182.7 its set to now.
           
          Anyone know anyone that reprograms zivans? (3000 watt 220 version)


          --- On Wed, 7/14/10, Tom Hudson <tdhudson@...> wrote:


          From: Tom Hudson <tdhudson@...>
          Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Howdy all
          To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Wednesday, July 14, 2010, 5:23 PM


           



          Kevin,

          The first thing you'll want to do is see if the Service Disconnect
          connector is disconnected. This removes power from everything,
          including the DC-DC converter.

          If that is connected, disconnect the motor controller from the main
          power at its large gray Anderson connector and measure the voltage on
          the connector that is attached to the car's frame. If there is no
          voltage there, it's possible the batteries are not fully connected or
          that one of the fuses (there are two -- one in each battery box) are
          blown. The latter is probably pretty unlikely.

          Most likely, the battery voltage is just too low to boot the DC-DC
          converter.

          Good luck! Sounds like you have a service manual, which is good.
          Follow the troubleshooting procedures in there and you should have
          little trouble getting the car going.

          -Tom

          dexion111 wrote:
          >
          >
          > New member here just saying hello.
          >
          > I have a 98 force arriving tonight at 12am est (not running, condition
          > unknown I like a challange.)
          >
          > 8K miles in nice physical shape definately dead batteries.
          >
          > Key on run produces nothing (no lights/horn, radio etc.)
          >
          > >From the service manual I dont see any 12V accessory battery just a
          > dc to dc so I would assume there is a LVC built in somewhere
          > (batteries are low or dead is about all the person I bought it from
          > can say he didnt know anything about it and it scared him.)
          >
          > I have 2 working ev's at the moment (both converted, a 95 saturn
          > converted to lead acid floodies then to Lifepo4 (48 100ah cells) and a
          > scooter with 21 60 ah TS cells in it. I have good knowledge of Dc
          > series motors/controllers this is my first ac conversion however.
          > Seems pretty straight forward just jump over my 48 cell lifepo pack to
          > the force (after disabling the existing pack) or trying to charge up
          > the existing batteries (i have a single 12volt gell cell charger that
          > will do 2,6 and 10 amps) and see if it will light up and fix the stuff
          > that wont.
          >
          > Anyone have any lifepo4 questions I would be happy to answer them (I
          > can also suggest a few places that have them in stock in the usa for
          > delivery as opposed to sending 6K over seas and waiting 8 weeks and
          > hopping not to lose your money if anyone is interested.)
          >
          > Any gotchas on the force for reviving one with dead batteries?
          >
          > Anyone know where the lvc kicks in 130V perhaps (its a 156V nominal
          > model.)
          >
          > Someone replaced the brusa with a zivan for me already which was nice
          > of them (assuming the profile is for gels...) so thats one less worry.
          >
          > Without knowing the condition I understand its hard to give advice but
          > any general pointers would be greatly appreciated.
          >
          > Thanks
          > Kevin
          >
          >

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • ldr214
          Kevin, I did another post earlier and signed in with the wrong yahoo name for this site so I don t know where in cyber space that one is. ELCon in Sacramento
          Message 4 of 9 , Jul 14, 2010
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            Kevin,
            I did another post earlier and signed in with the wrong yahoo name for this site so I don't know where in cyber space that one is.

            ELCon in Sacramento CA may reprogram the Zivan. Greg use to charge around 80 not sure what it is these days. 916- 441- 4161

            You sound very knowledgeable and experienced so you could "boot" the 12V system with a 12V battery (power supply) on the 12V side of the DC/DC. This would tell you a few nice to know things before you put in all those batteries. Fuse, isolate and test as you deem necessary. Maybe one of the gels will come up enough to be a good weak 12V source if you don't have another. The Brusa dc/dc is very reliable and you'll find that the data plates have the necessary info on them. Some are a higher output 13+ and earlier ones just 12V. Geo stuff works better on the higher ones I imagine. Mine is a 12V one and there is a a big difference in the fan speed at 12V vs the 14V in a gasser.

            When you get it up and running don't be surprised if the vacuum pump runs steady, as the pressure switch likes to stick if not used a lot. Pretty easy fix.

            8K isn't a lot of miles on a deka pack. Any history as to why it was parked?

            The front of the Force might be really light without any batteries up there. Would have to ask someone who has tried it but right now I find the car to be very well balanced. Easy enough for you to do the math on the distribution so I'll leave it at that. Solectria also used a heavy duty replacement coil in the back so expect the rear to come up a little when you take the lead out.

            If your car was in the rust belt you might want to clean the DB9 and DB 25 connectors from the controller as some have had issues.

            Enjoy

            Mike R
            97 Force


            --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, kevin lubot <dexion111@...> wrote:
            >
            > All were connected. Fuses/all battery wires have continuity (including dc-dc etc)
            > total charge on the entire pack : 10.21 V heh
            > Â
            > Ive got a gel cell regen charger ill try out on the cells (not really much hope however)
            > Â
            > I think ill just toss in the lifepo4's i have this weekend (48 100 ah Blackhawk lifepo4 cells) they are a bit tall but I eyeballed the back battery box and it looks like I can get all 48 in the back compartment and I have 3 (110V) chargers set to 168V and lifepo4 profiles. I just need to figure out the front battery box. Ill have to bypass it and remove the 5 cells up front.
            > Â
            > Assuming all goes well I just need to have the zivan reprogrammed to lifepo4 (it would be nice to charge at 18 amps instead of 6)Â from gel and have it finish at 170V or so not the 182.7 its set to now.
            > Â
            > Anyone know anyone that reprograms zivans? (3000 watt 220 version)
            >
          • dexion111
            I may just leave the 5 cells up front for weight but not hooked up if I do the lifepo s. The first cell I tried went through rejoove and then started charging.
            Message 5 of 9 , Jul 14, 2010
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              I may just leave the 5 cells up front for weight but not hooked up if I do the lifepo's. The first cell I tried went through rejoove and then started charging. My experience with this charger is if it cant charge it will know and not try to charge it just try to rejoove for 4 hours then display bad bat. This one rejooved for 30 minutes and then started charging. So perhaps i may be able to get something from the pack for testing. I can jump the dc to dc to test good idea but now the old lead is making me curious if I can get some life back.

              So according to the former owner he payed 16K for it in 2006. Fully working but with weak batts. (From what I can see the former owner before him replaced the brusa charger with a zivan in 2005 from the paperwork.) The new owner didnt know anything about ev's or lead and thought he wasnt supposed to leave it plugged in. Last winter it was minus 30F and the pack went dead (he thought he would have better range in the winter.) He said he replaced the cells (paid someone who rode a harley(?) to come by and replace the cells in 2008 one year before he let it go dead. If thats the case these cells are only 2 years old and have nearly nothing on them (cycles etc.)I cant find a reciept however and the batteries dont have any date/year removed from the label. He got so disgusted with it he just sold it as is (new tires as well in 2005). I talked to him for a while and suggested he try to put in some more cells (or recharge the ones there individually) but the whole thing scared him and he didnt want to touch the car any more just have it gone.

              I think things would have been different if he had just left it plugged in over the winter.


              Thanks for the number I may try to get the lead up and running or even replace it. Ive did a cost for both lithium and these gel's. If i get 25K out of the gels they are the same price per mile as lithiums would be (assuming the lifepos last for 90K miles.) So really I kind of like the idea of leaving the cells in my other ev and getting the force up for 2500 bucks if i need to replace the pack. Having two fully functional ev cars is nice.

              I still cant beat mr solar (others have lower prices but they wont dropship so it is higher than mr solars 198 per cell + 94 for shipping.)



              --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "ldr214" <replytome@...> wrote:
              >
              > Kevin,
              > I did another post earlier and signed in with the wrong yahoo name for this site so I don't know where in cyber space that one is.
              >
              > ELCon in Sacramento CA may reprogram the Zivan. Greg use to charge around 80 not sure what it is these days. 916- 441- 4161
              >
              > You sound very knowledgeable and experienced so you could "boot" the 12V system with a 12V battery (power supply) on the 12V side of the DC/DC. This would tell you a few nice to know things before you put in all those batteries. Fuse, isolate and test as you deem necessary. Maybe one of the gels will come up enough to be a good weak 12V source if you don't have another. The Brusa dc/dc is very reliable and you'll find that the data plates have the necessary info on them. Some are a higher output 13+ and earlier ones just 12V. Geo stuff works better on the higher ones I imagine. Mine is a 12V one and there is a a big difference in the fan speed at 12V vs the 14V in a gasser.
              >
              > When you get it up and running don't be surprised if the vacuum pump runs steady, as the pressure switch likes to stick if not used a lot. Pretty easy fix.
              >
              > 8K isn't a lot of miles on a deka pack. Any history as to why it was parked?
              >
              > The front of the Force might be really light without any batteries up there. Would have to ask someone who has tried it but right now I find the car to be very well balanced. Easy enough for you to do the math on the distribution so I'll leave it at that. Solectria also used a heavy duty replacement coil in the back so expect the rear to come up a little when you take the lead out.
              >
              > If your car was in the rust belt you might want to clean the DB9 and DB 25 connectors from the controller as some have had issues.
              >
              > Enjoy
              >
              > Mike R
              > 97 Force
              >
              >
              > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, kevin lubot <dexion111@> wrote:
              > >
              > > All were connected. Fuses/all battery wires have continuity (including dc-dc etc)
              > > total charge on the entire pack : 10.21 V heh
              > > Â
              > > Ive got a gel cell regen charger ill try out on the cells (not really much hope however)
              > > Â
              > > I think ill just toss in the lifepo4's i have this weekend (48 100 ah Blackhawk lifepo4 cells) they are a bit tall but I eyeballed the back battery box and it looks like I can get all 48 in the back compartment and I have 3 (110V) chargers set to 168V and lifepo4 profiles. I just need to figure out the front battery box. Ill have to bypass it and remove the 5 cells up front.
              > > Â
              > > Assuming all goes well I just need to have the zivan reprogrammed to lifepo4 (it would be nice to charge at 18 amps instead of 6)Â from gel and have it finish at 170V or so not the 182.7 its set to now.
              > > Â
              > > Anyone know anyone that reprograms zivans? (3000 watt 220 version)
              > >
              >
            • dexion111
              Ok used a 12.5V power supply (15 amps) to test the 12volt system. Everything works, horn, radio, lights, reverse light, wipers etc. Nothing wrong (the vaccume
              Message 6 of 9 , Jul 14, 2010
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                Ok used a 12.5V power supply (15 amps) to test the 12volt system. Everything works, horn, radio, lights, reverse light, wipers etc. Nothing wrong (the vaccume pump even shuts off when its well full isnt correct empty enough heh)

                --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "dexion111" <dexion111@...> wrote:
                >
                > I may just leave the 5 cells up front for weight but not hooked up if I do the lifepo's. The first cell I tried went through rejoove and then started charging. My experience with this charger is if it cant charge it will know and not try to charge it just try to rejoove for 4 hours then display bad bat. This one rejooved for 30 minutes and then started charging. So perhaps i may be able to get something from the pack for testing. I can jump the dc to dc to test good idea but now the old lead is making me curious if I can get some life back.
                >
                > So according to the former owner he payed 16K for it in 2006. Fully working but with weak batts. (From what I can see the former owner before him replaced the brusa charger with a zivan in 2005 from the paperwork.) The new owner didnt know anything about ev's or lead and thought he wasnt supposed to leave it plugged in. Last winter it was minus 30F and the pack went dead (he thought he would have better range in the winter.) He said he replaced the cells (paid someone who rode a harley(?) to come by and replace the cells in 2008 one year before he let it go dead. If thats the case these cells are only 2 years old and have nearly nothing on them (cycles etc.)I cant find a reciept however and the batteries dont have any date/year removed from the label. He got so disgusted with it he just sold it as is (new tires as well in 2005). I talked to him for a while and suggested he try to put in some more cells (or recharge the ones there individually) but the whole thing scared him and he didnt want to touch the car any more just have it gone.
                >
                > I think things would have been different if he had just left it plugged in over the winter.
                >
                >
                > Thanks for the number I may try to get the lead up and running or even replace it. Ive did a cost for both lithium and these gel's. If i get 25K out of the gels they are the same price per mile as lithiums would be (assuming the lifepos last for 90K miles.) So really I kind of like the idea of leaving the cells in my other ev and getting the force up for 2500 bucks if i need to replace the pack. Having two fully functional ev cars is nice.
                >
                > I still cant beat mr solar (others have lower prices but they wont dropship so it is higher than mr solars 198 per cell + 94 for shipping.)
                >
                >
                >
                > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "ldr214" <replytome@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Kevin,
                > > I did another post earlier and signed in with the wrong yahoo name for this site so I don't know where in cyber space that one is.
                > >
                > > ELCon in Sacramento CA may reprogram the Zivan. Greg use to charge around 80 not sure what it is these days. 916- 441- 4161
                > >
                > > You sound very knowledgeable and experienced so you could "boot" the 12V system with a 12V battery (power supply) on the 12V side of the DC/DC. This would tell you a few nice to know things before you put in all those batteries. Fuse, isolate and test as you deem necessary. Maybe one of the gels will come up enough to be a good weak 12V source if you don't have another. The Brusa dc/dc is very reliable and you'll find that the data plates have the necessary info on them. Some are a higher output 13+ and earlier ones just 12V. Geo stuff works better on the higher ones I imagine. Mine is a 12V one and there is a a big difference in the fan speed at 12V vs the 14V in a gasser.
                > >
                > > When you get it up and running don't be surprised if the vacuum pump runs steady, as the pressure switch likes to stick if not used a lot. Pretty easy fix.
                > >
                > > 8K isn't a lot of miles on a deka pack. Any history as to why it was parked?
                > >
                > > The front of the Force might be really light without any batteries up there. Would have to ask someone who has tried it but right now I find the car to be very well balanced. Easy enough for you to do the math on the distribution so I'll leave it at that. Solectria also used a heavy duty replacement coil in the back so expect the rear to come up a little when you take the lead out.
                > >
                > > If your car was in the rust belt you might want to clean the DB9 and DB 25 connectors from the controller as some have had issues.
                > >
                > > Enjoy
                > >
                > > Mike R
                > > 97 Force
                > >
                > >
                > > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, kevin lubot <dexion111@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > All were connected. Fuses/all battery wires have continuity (including dc-dc etc)
                > > > total charge on the entire pack : 10.21 V heh
                > > > Â
                > > > Ive got a gel cell regen charger ill try out on the cells (not really much hope however)
                > > > Â
                > > > I think ill just toss in the lifepo4's i have this weekend (48 100 ah Blackhawk lifepo4 cells) they are a bit tall but I eyeballed the back battery box and it looks like I can get all 48 in the back compartment and I have 3 (110V) chargers set to 168V and lifepo4 profiles. I just need to figure out the front battery box. Ill have to bypass it and remove the 5 cells up front.
                > > > Â
                > > > Assuming all goes well I just need to have the zivan reprogrammed to lifepo4 (it would be nice to charge at 18 amps instead of 6)Â from gel and have it finish at 170V or so not the 182.7 its set to now.
                > > > Â
                > > > Anyone know anyone that reprograms zivans? (3000 watt 220 version)
                > > >
                > >
                >
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