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I drive a '92 or '93 Force

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  • bpassman@quarrytech.com
    It is a 2 door. I have around 10,000 miles on it. I have gone out of my way to experiment by driving it all through winter in Boston. It does very well. I
    Message 1 of 11 , Jul 5 2:33 PM
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      It is a 2 door. I have around 10,000 miles on it. I have gone out
      of
      my way to experiment by driving it all through winter in Boston. It
      does very well. I have changed batteries myself, and it is very easy
      once you know how to move the Air Conditioner out of the way and get
      a
      small screwdriver to remove the rightmost connector from the
      controller. I feel very safe doing this maintenance work myself.
      Everything else on the car has been rock solid.

      I have found that it is easy to find SR27 batteries, Blemished, for
      $40 apiece. That really makes a full set cost $500. Pretty painless.

      I am actually planning to sell this car for $11,000, so I can buy a
      Toyota Prius, so if you know anyone interested, please let me know.
      In the meantime I am continuing to commute with it every day.
    • Tom Hudson
      Bill, Is that a belt drive version Force or does it have the gearbox? I forwarded your message to a guy in Milwaukee who might be in the market for a Force.
      Message 2 of 11 , Jul 6 9:39 AM
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        Bill,

        Is that a belt drive version Force or does it have the gearbox? I forwarded
        your message to a guy in Milwaukee who might be in the market for a Force.

        We were pretty interested in the Prius earlier this year, but it doesn't get
        that much better mileage than our Saturn, so I think we're going to hold off
        on replacing the Saturn for a while.

        -Tom

        Thomas Hudson
        http://asterius.com/solectria/ho -- Electric Vehicles
        http://asterius.com/solectria/ho/pvs.htm -- Solar Power

        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: bpassman@... [mailto:bpassman@...]
        > Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2000 4:34 PM
        > To: force_ev@egroups.com
        > Subject: [force_ev] I drive a '92 or '93 Force
        >
        >
        > It is a 2 door. I have around 10,000 miles on it. I have gone out
        > of
        > my way to experiment by driving it all through winter in Boston. It
        > does very well. I have changed batteries myself, and it is very easy
        > once you know how to move the Air Conditioner out of the way and get
        > a
        > small screwdriver to remove the rightmost connector from the
        > controller. I feel very safe doing this maintenance work myself.
        > Everything else on the car has been rock solid.
        >
        > I have found that it is easy to find SR27 batteries, Blemished, for
        > $40 apiece. That really makes a full set cost $500. Pretty painless.
        >
        > I am actually planning to sell this car for $11,000, so I can buy a
        > Toyota Prius, so if you know anyone interested, please let me know.
        > In the meantime I am continuing to commute with it every day.
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
        > Where do sports heroes like Derek Jeter, Mia Hamm,
        > Vince Carter and Peyton Manning hang out? Where else?
        > Click now and find ‘em all here!
        > http://click.egroups.com/1/6211/2/_/_/_/962832956/
        > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
        >
        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > force_ev-unsubscribe@egroups.com
        >
        >
        >
      • Bill Passman
        It is a Belt drive. No gears. Have they done a final mileage rating on the Prius yet? I am hoping that 2 hacks become available: 1. Allow reprogramming to
        Message 3 of 11 , Jul 6 10:12 AM
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          It is a Belt drive. No gears.

          Have they done a final mileage rating on the Prius yet?
          I am hoping that 2 hacks become available:

          1. Allow reprogramming to increase the speed at which the gas engine kicks in.
          2. Allow users to plug it in to recharge the batteries overnight without
          burning petrol.

          For me, with a short, low-speed commute, I would greatly increase my actual
          mileage.

          -Bill
          At 11:39 AM 7/6/00 -0500, you wrote:
          >Bill,
          >
          >Is that a belt drive version Force or does it have the gearbox? I forwarded
          >your message to a guy in Milwaukee who might be in the market for a Force.
          >
          >We were pretty interested in the Prius earlier this year, but it doesn't get
          >that much better mileage than our Saturn, so I think we're going to hold off
          >on replacing the Saturn for a while.
          >
          >-Tom
          >
          >Thomas Hudson
          >http://asterius.com/solectria/ho -- Electric Vehicles
          >http://asterius.com/solectria/ho/pvs.htm -- Solar Power
          >
          > > -----Original Message-----
          > > From: bpassman@... [mailto:bpassman@...]
          > > Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2000 4:34 PM
          > > To: force_ev@egroups.com
          > > Subject: [force_ev] I drive a '92 or '93 Force
          > >
          > >
          > > It is a 2 door. I have around 10,000 miles on it. I have gone out
          > > of
          > > my way to experiment by driving it all through winter in Boston. It
          > > does very well. I have changed batteries myself, and it is very easy
          > > once you know how to move the Air Conditioner out of the way and get
          > > a
          > > small screwdriver to remove the rightmost connector from the
          > > controller. I feel very safe doing this maintenance work myself.
          > > Everything else on the car has been rock solid.
          > >
          > > I have found that it is easy to find SR27 batteries, Blemished, for
          > > $40 apiece. That really makes a full set cost $500. Pretty painless.
          > >
          > > I am actually planning to sell this car for $11,000, so I can buy a
          > > Toyota Prius, so if you know anyone interested, please let me know.
          > > In the meantime I am continuing to commute with it every day.
          > >
          > >
          > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
          > > Where do sports heroes like Derek Jeter, Mia Hamm,
          > > Vince Carter and Peyton Manning hang out? Where else?
          > > Click now and find 'em all here!
          > > http://click.egroups.com/1/6211/2/_/_/_/962832956/
          > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
          > >
          > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > > force_ev-unsubscribe@egroups.com
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          >------------------------------------------------------------------------
          >Where do sports heroes like Derek Jeter, Mia Hamm,
          >Vince Carter and Peyton Manning hang out? Where else?
          >Click now and find 'em all here!
          >http://click.egroups.com/1/6211/2/_/_/_/962901615/
          >------------------------------------------------------------------------
          >
          >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          >force_ev-unsubscribe@egroups.com

          -----------------------------------------------------------
          Bill Passman, Quarry Technologies 781.505.8300 x329
          8 New England Executive Park, Burlington, MA 01803
        • Tom Hudson
          Well, with two Solectria vehicles now, we hope we won t have to drive the gas car that much anymore! What I saw on the Prius was on their website: expected
          Message 4 of 11 , Jul 6 9:39 PM
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            Well, with two Solectria vehicles now, we hope we won't have to drive the
            gas car that much anymore!

            What I saw on the Prius was on their website: "expected low 50s mpg in the
            city and low 40s mpg on the highway". Our Saturn gets around 35 on the
            highway, which is where we'd be using it, so a probable 8MPG bump isn't that
            significant. We'd go for the Insight like a shot if it wasn't a two-seater.

            Speaking of the Insight, can you believe that it actually has a bunch of
            D-cell-sized NiMH batteries (120) wired in series that provide power for the
            electric motor?! D cells! Seems a bit rinky-dink to me. 120 modules also
            seems like a lot of places to have a failure. Makes me wonder how they're
            going to handle that in the Prius. I think I'd feel better having fewer,
            higher-voltage modules...

            You might want to subscribe to the Insight mailing list, it's also at
            EGroups. There's been talk over there about hacking the car to make it do
            some things differently, might be fun to listen in on.

            -Tom

            Thomas Hudson
            http://asterius.com/solectria/ho -- Electric Vehicles
            http://asterius.com/solectria/ho/pvs.htm -- Solar Power

            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: Bill Passman [mailto:bpassman@...]
            > Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2000 12:13 PM
            > To: force_ev@egroups.com
            > Subject: RE: [force_ev] I drive a '92 or '93 Force
            >
            >
            > It is a Belt drive. No gears.
            >
            > Have they done a final mileage rating on the Prius yet?
            > I am hoping that 2 hacks become available:
            >
            > 1. Allow reprogramming to increase the speed at which the gas
            > engine kicks in.
            > 2. Allow users to plug it in to recharge the batteries overnight without
            > burning petrol.
            >
            > For me, with a short, low-speed commute, I would greatly increase
            > my actual
            > mileage.
            >
            > -Bill
            > At 11:39 AM 7/6/00 -0500, you wrote:
            > >Bill,
            > >
            > >Is that a belt drive version Force or does it have the gearbox?
            > I forwarded
            > >your message to a guy in Milwaukee who might be in the market
            > for a Force.
            > >
            > >We were pretty interested in the Prius earlier this year, but it
            > doesn't get
            > >that much better mileage than our Saturn, so I think we're going
            > to hold off
            > >on replacing the Saturn for a while.
            > >
            > >-Tom
            > >
            > >Thomas Hudson
            > >http://asterius.com/solectria/ho -- Electric Vehicles
            > >http://asterius.com/solectria/ho/pvs.htm -- Solar Power
            > >
            > > > -----Original Message-----
            > > > From: bpassman@... [mailto:bpassman@...]
            > > > Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2000 4:34 PM
            > > > To: force_ev@egroups.com
            > > > Subject: [force_ev] I drive a '92 or '93 Force
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > It is a 2 door. I have around 10,000 miles on it. I have gone out
            > > > of
            > > > my way to experiment by driving it all through winter in Boston. It
            > > > does very well. I have changed batteries myself, and it is very easy
            > > > once you know how to move the Air Conditioner out of the way and get
            > > > a
            > > > small screwdriver to remove the rightmost connector from the
            > > > controller. I feel very safe doing this maintenance work myself.
            > > > Everything else on the car has been rock solid.
            > > >
            > > > I have found that it is easy to find SR27 batteries, Blemished, for
            > > > $40 apiece. That really makes a full set cost $500. Pretty painless.
            > > >
            > > > I am actually planning to sell this car for $11,000, so I can buy a
            > > > Toyota Prius, so if you know anyone interested, please let me know.
            > > > In the meantime I am continuing to commute with it every day.
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
            > > > Where do sports heroes like Derek Jeter, Mia Hamm,
            > > > Vince Carter and Peyton Manning hang out? Where else?
            > > > Click now and find 'em all here!
            > > > http://click.egroups.com/1/6211/2/_/_/_/962832956/
            > > >
            > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
            > > >
            > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > > > force_ev-unsubscribe@egroups.com
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            > >------------------------------------------------------------------------
            > >Where do sports heroes like Derek Jeter, Mia Hamm,
            > >Vince Carter and Peyton Manning hang out? Where else?
            > >Click now and find 'em all here!
            > >http://click.egroups.com/1/6211/2/_/_/_/962901615/
            > >------------------------------------------------------------------------
            > >
            > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > >force_ev-unsubscribe@egroups.com
            >
            > -----------------------------------------------------------
            > Bill Passman, Quarry Technologies 781.505.8300 x329
            > 8 New England Executive Park, Burlington, MA 01803
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
            > Where do sports heroes like Derek Jeter, Mia Hamm,
            > Vince Carter and Peyton Manning hang out? Where else?
            > Click now and find ‘em all here!
            > http://click.egroups.com/1/6211/2/_/_/_/962903756/
            > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
            >
            > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > force_ev-unsubscribe@egroups.com
            >
            >
            >
          • Bill Passman
            Somebody needs to cut the price on those batteries. If they dropped price to $200, there would be a revolution in the industry. You would see many lawnmowers,
            Message 5 of 11 , Jul 7 5:39 AM
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              Somebody needs to cut the price on those batteries.
              If they dropped price to $200, there would be a revolution in the industry.
              You would see many lawnmowers, ebikes with real range, and much lower price
              cars.

              -Bill

              At 11:39 PM 7/6/00 -0500, you wrote:
              >Well, with two Solectria vehicles now, we hope we won't have to drive the
              >gas car that much anymore!
              >
              >What I saw on the Prius was on their website: "expected low 50s mpg in the
              >city and low 40s mpg on the highway". Our Saturn gets around 35 on the
              >highway, which is where we'd be using it, so a probable 8MPG bump isn't that
              >significant. We'd go for the Insight like a shot if it wasn't a two-seater.
              >
              >Speaking of the Insight, can you believe that it actually has a bunch of
              >D-cell-sized NiMH batteries (120) wired in series that provide power for the
              >electric motor?! D cells! Seems a bit rinky-dink to me. 120 modules also
              >seems like a lot of places to have a failure. Makes me wonder how they're
              >going to handle that in the Prius. I think I'd feel better having fewer,
              >higher-voltage modules...
              >
              >You might want to subscribe to the Insight mailing list, it's also at
              >EGroups. There's been talk over there about hacking the car to make it do
              >some things differently, might be fun to listen in on.
              >
              >-Tom
              >
              >Thomas Hudson
              >http://asterius.com/solectria/ho -- Electric Vehicles
              >http://asterius.com/solectria/ho/pvs.htm -- Solar Power
              >
              > > -----Original Message-----
              > > From: Bill Passman [mailto:bpassman@...]
              > > Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2000 12:13 PM
              > > To: force_ev@egroups.com
              > > Subject: RE: [force_ev] I drive a '92 or '93 Force
              > >
              > >
              > > It is a Belt drive. No gears.
              > >
              > > Have they done a final mileage rating on the Prius yet?
              > > I am hoping that 2 hacks become available:
              > >
              > > 1. Allow reprogramming to increase the speed at which the gas
              > > engine kicks in.
              > > 2. Allow users to plug it in to recharge the batteries overnight without
              > > burning petrol.
              > >
              > > For me, with a short, low-speed commute, I would greatly increase
              > > my actual
              > > mileage.
              > >
              > > -Bill
              > > At 11:39 AM 7/6/00 -0500, you wrote:
              > > >Bill,
              > > >
              > > >Is that a belt drive version Force or does it have the gearbox?
              > > I forwarded
              > > >your message to a guy in Milwaukee who might be in the market
              > > for a Force.
              > > >
              > > >We were pretty interested in the Prius earlier this year, but it
              > > doesn't get
              > > >that much better mileage than our Saturn, so I think we're going
              > > to hold off
              > > >on replacing the Saturn for a while.
              > > >
              > > >-Tom
              > > >
              > > >Thomas Hudson
              > > >http://asterius.com/solectria/ho -- Electric Vehicles
              > > >http://asterius.com/solectria/ho/pvs.htm -- Solar Power
              > > >
              > > > > -----Original Message-----
              > > > > From: bpassman@... [mailto:bpassman@...]
              > > > > Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2000 4:34 PM
              > > > > To: force_ev@egroups.com
              > > > > Subject: [force_ev] I drive a '92 or '93 Force
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > It is a 2 door. I have around 10,000 miles on it. I have gone out
              > > > > of
              > > > > my way to experiment by driving it all through winter in Boston. It
              > > > > does very well. I have changed batteries myself, and it is very easy
              > > > > once you know how to move the Air Conditioner out of the way and get
              > > > > a
              > > > > small screwdriver to remove the rightmost connector from the
              > > > > controller. I feel very safe doing this maintenance work myself.
              > > > > Everything else on the car has been rock solid.
              > > > >
              > > > > I have found that it is easy to find SR27 batteries, Blemished, for
              > > > > $40 apiece. That really makes a full set cost $500. Pretty painless.
              > > > >
              > > > > I am actually planning to sell this car for $11,000, so I can buy a
              > > > > Toyota Prius, so if you know anyone interested, please let me know.
              > > > > In the meantime I am continuing to commute with it every day.
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
              > > > > Where do sports heroes like Derek Jeter, Mia Hamm,
              > > > > Vince Carter and Peyton Manning hang out? Where else?
              > > > > Click now and find 'em all here!
              > > > > http://click.egroups.com/1/6211/2/_/_/_/962832956/
              > > > >
              > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
              > > > >
              > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > > > > force_ev-unsubscribe@egroups.com
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------
              > > >Where do sports heroes like Derek Jeter, Mia Hamm,
              > > >Vince Carter and Peyton Manning hang out? Where else?
              > > >Click now and find 'em all here!
              > > >http://click.egroups.com/1/6211/2/_/_/_/962901615/
              > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------
              > > >
              > > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > > >force_ev-unsubscribe@egroups.com
              > >
              > > -----------------------------------------------------------
              > > Bill Passman, Quarry Technologies 781.505.8300 x329
              > > 8 New England Executive Park, Burlington, MA 01803
              > >
              > >
              > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
              > > Where do sports heroes like Derek Jeter, Mia Hamm,
              > > Vince Carter and Peyton Manning hang out? Where else?
              > > Click now and find 'em all here!
              > > http://click.egroups.com/1/6211/2/_/_/_/962903756/
              > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
              > >
              > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > > force_ev-unsubscribe@egroups.com
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              >force_ev-unsubscribe@egroups.com

              -----------------------------------------------------------
              Bill Passman, Quarry Technologies 781.505.8300 x329
              8 New England Executive Park, Burlington, MA 01803
            • Tom Hudson
              Well, with GM in the driver s seat on the Ovonic battery front, I m not holding my breath for prices to come down there. Just look at how they ve handled the
              Message 6 of 11 , Jul 8 7:44 AM
              • 0 Attachment
                Well, with GM in the driver's seat on the Ovonic battery front, I'm not
                holding my breath for prices to come down there. Just look at how they've
                handled the EV1 -- They keep claiming that they aren't selling any, but
                there's a months-long waiting list for them.

                If you ask me, GM never wanted the electric car to succeed. Look at the
                EV1 -- Yeah, it's really cool looking, and the interior looks like something
                out of Star Trek, but they made the thing so over-complicated that it's
                ludicrous. Listening in on the EV1 mailing list, you get to see all sorts
                of bizarre problems related to the various computers and microswitches and
                such.

                If GM _really_ wanted to make an electric car that was a success, they would
                have done exactly what Solectria did:

                1) Keep it simple. No tire pressure sensors. No over-the-top control
                panels. No keyless entry. These do nothing to contribute to the basic
                transportation need -- they just jack up the price and complexity, which
                leads to more breakdowns.

                2) Make it a four-seater! I'll bet that 95% of the people who don't buy
                (lease) an EV1 reject it because it's a two-seater.

                If GM wanted an EV that was a success, they could have made a Force-class
                lead-acid EV that would sell for about $15,000. Maybe less, given their
                economies of scale. Instead, they designed an over-the-top concept car and
                manufactured it, all the while boo-hooing to the auto industry about how
                they were losing money on each one they sold. It's a real shame.

                As for NiCD batteries, Saft is swamped with orders to the extent that when I
                tried to order a set of NiCDs for our E-10, I was told that they were at
                least 6-9 months lead time on orders, because of supply problems (I assume
                due to nickel, which is used in all their battery technologies). With that
                kind of supply/demand situation, I don't expect their price to drop too soon
                either. I'm thinking of ordering a set of NiCDs for our Force now so that
                down the road, when we need to replace the battery pack, we'll have them!

                -Tom

                Thomas Hudson
                http://asterius.com/solectria/ho -- Electric Vehicles
                http://asterius.com/solectria/ho/pvs.htm -- Solar Power

                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: Bill Passman [mailto:bpassman@...]
                > Sent: Friday, July 07, 2000 7:40 AM
                > To: force_ev@egroups.com
                > Subject: RE: [force_ev] I drive a '92 or '93 Force
                >
                >
                > Somebody needs to cut the price on those batteries.
                > If they dropped price to $200, there would be a revolution in the
                > industry.
                > You would see many lawnmowers, ebikes with real range, and much
                > lower price
                > cars.
                >
                > -Bill
                >
                > At 11:39 PM 7/6/00 -0500, you wrote:
                > >Well, with two Solectria vehicles now, we hope we won't have to drive the
                > >gas car that much anymore!
                > >
                > >What I saw on the Prius was on their website: "expected low 50s
                > mpg in the
                > >city and low 40s mpg on the highway". Our Saturn gets around 35 on the
                > >highway, which is where we'd be using it, so a probable 8MPG
                > bump isn't that
                > >significant. We'd go for the Insight like a shot if it wasn't a
                > two-seater.
                > >
                > >Speaking of the Insight, can you believe that it actually has a bunch of
                > >D-cell-sized NiMH batteries (120) wired in series that provide
                > power for the
                > >electric motor?! D cells! Seems a bit rinky-dink to me. 120
                > modules also
                > >seems like a lot of places to have a failure. Makes me wonder
                > how they're
                > >going to handle that in the Prius. I think I'd feel better having fewer,
                > >higher-voltage modules...
                > >
                > >You might want to subscribe to the Insight mailing list, it's also at
                > >EGroups. There's been talk over there about hacking the car to
                > make it do
                > >some things differently, might be fun to listen in on.
                > >
                > >-Tom
                > >
                > >Thomas Hudson
                > >http://asterius.com/solectria/ho -- Electric Vehicles
                > >http://asterius.com/solectria/ho/pvs.htm -- Solar Power
                > >
                > > > -----Original Message-----
                > > > From: Bill Passman [mailto:bpassman@...]
                > > > Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2000 12:13 PM
                > > > To: force_ev@egroups.com
                > > > Subject: RE: [force_ev] I drive a '92 or '93 Force
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > It is a Belt drive. No gears.
                > > >
                > > > Have they done a final mileage rating on the Prius yet?
                > > > I am hoping that 2 hacks become available:
                > > >
                > > > 1. Allow reprogramming to increase the speed at which the gas
                > > > engine kicks in.
                > > > 2. Allow users to plug it in to recharge the batteries
                > overnight without
                > > > burning petrol.
                > > >
                > > > For me, with a short, low-speed commute, I would greatly increase
                > > > my actual
                > > > mileage.
                > > >
                > > > -Bill
                > > > At 11:39 AM 7/6/00 -0500, you wrote:
                > > > >Bill,
                > > > >
                > > > >Is that a belt drive version Force or does it have the gearbox?
                > > > I forwarded
                > > > >your message to a guy in Milwaukee who might be in the market
                > > > for a Force.
                > > > >
                > > > >We were pretty interested in the Prius earlier this year, but it
                > > > doesn't get
                > > > >that much better mileage than our Saturn, so I think we're going
                > > > to hold off
                > > > >on replacing the Saturn for a while.
                > > > >
                > > > >-Tom
                > > > >
                > > > >Thomas Hudson
                > > > >http://asterius.com/solectria/ho -- Electric Vehicles
                > > > >http://asterius.com/solectria/ho/pvs.htm -- Solar Power
                > > > >
                > > > > > -----Original Message-----
                > > > > > From: bpassman@... [mailto:bpassman@...]
                > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2000 4:34 PM
                > > > > > To: force_ev@egroups.com
                > > > > > Subject: [force_ev] I drive a '92 or '93 Force
                > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > > > It is a 2 door. I have around 10,000 miles on it. I
                > have gone out
                > > > > > of
                > > > > > my way to experiment by driving it all through winter in
                > Boston. It
                > > > > > does very well. I have changed batteries myself, and it
                > is very easy
                > > > > > once you know how to move the Air Conditioner out of the
                > way and get
                > > > > > a
                > > > > > small screwdriver to remove the rightmost connector from the
                > > > > > controller. I feel very safe doing this maintenance work myself.
                > > > > > Everything else on the car has been rock solid.
                > > > > >
                > > > > > I have found that it is easy to find SR27 batteries,
                > Blemished, for
                > > > > > $40 apiece. That really makes a full set cost $500.
                > Pretty painless.
                > > > > >
                > > > > > I am actually planning to sell this car for $11,000, so I
                > can buy a
                > > > > > Toyota Prius, so if you know anyone interested, please
                > let me know.
                > > > > > In the meantime I am continuing to commute with it every day.
                > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > >
                > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                > > > > > Where do sports heroes like Derek Jeter, Mia Hamm,
                > > > > > Vince Carter and Peyton Manning hang out? Where else?
                > > > > > Click now and find 'em all here!
                > > > > > http://click.egroups.com/1/6211/2/_/_/_/962832956/
                > > > > >
                > > >
                > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                > > > > >
                > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > > > > > force_ev-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > >
                > >------------------------------------------------------------------------
                > > > >Where do sports heroes like Derek Jeter, Mia Hamm,
                > > > >Vince Carter and Peyton Manning hang out? Where else?
                > > > >Click now and find 'em all here!
                > > > >http://click.egroups.com/1/6211/2/_/_/_/962901615/
                > > >
                > >------------------------------------------------------------------------
                > > > >
                > > > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > > > >force_ev-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                > > >
                > > > -----------------------------------------------------------
                > > > Bill Passman, Quarry Technologies 781.505.8300 x329
                > > > 8 New England Executive Park, Burlington, MA 01803
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                > > > Where do sports heroes like Derek Jeter, Mia Hamm,
                > > > Vince Carter and Peyton Manning hang out? Where else?
                > > > Click now and find 'em all here!
                > > > http://click.egroups.com/1/6211/2/_/_/_/962903756/
                > > >
                > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                > > >
                > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > > > force_ev-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > >force_ev-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                >
                > -----------------------------------------------------------
                > Bill Passman, Quarry Technologies 781.505.8300 x329
                > 8 New England Executive Park, Burlington, MA 01803
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                > Law.com is the preeminent online destination for legal professionals.
                > Visit Law.com for exclusive content from American Lawyer Media, online
                > CLE Seminars, Practice Centers and Career Listings.
                > http://click.egroups.com/1/5803/2/_/_/_/962973583/
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                > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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                >
                >
                >
              • Jeff Saunders
                Are the NiCd s a straight swap, or do you need to add/change any battery management components? Thanks, - Jeff Saunders ... that when I ... were at ... assume
                Message 7 of 11 , Sep 21, 2000
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                  Are the NiCd's a straight swap, or do you need to
                  add/change any battery management components?

                  Thanks,

                  - Jeff Saunders


                  --- In force_ev@egroups.com, "Tom Hudson" <tomhudson@e...> wrote:
                  > As for NiCD batteries, Saft is swamped with orders to the extent
                  that when I
                  > tried to order a set of NiCDs for our E-10, I was told that they
                  were at
                  > least 6-9 months lead time on orders, because of supply problems (I
                  assume
                  > due to nickel, which is used in all their battery technologies).
                  With that
                  > kind of supply/demand situation, I don't expect their price to drop
                  too soon
                  > either. I'm thinking of ordering a set of NiCDs for our Force now
                  so that
                  > down the road, when we need to replace the battery pack, we'll have
                  them!
                  >
                  > -Tom
                  >
                  > Thomas Hudson
                • Bill Passman
                  I suspect that there would be some charger modification, but Solectria would know for sure. -Bill ... Bill Passman, Quarry Technologies 781.505.8300 x329 8
                  Message 8 of 11 , Sep 21, 2000
                  • 0 Attachment
                    I suspect that there would be some charger modification, but Solectria
                    would know for sure.
                    -Bill

                    At 03:23 AM 9/21/00, you wrote:
                    >
                    >Are the NiCd's a straight swap, or do you need to
                    >add/change any battery management components?
                    >
                    >Thanks,
                    >
                    >- Jeff Saunders
                    >
                    >
                    >--- In force_ev@egroups.com, "Tom Hudson" <tomhudson@e...> wrote:
                    > > As for NiCD batteries, Saft is swamped with orders to the extent
                    >that when I
                    > > tried to order a set of NiCDs for our E-10, I was told that they
                    >were at
                    > > least 6-9 months lead time on orders, because of supply problems (I
                    >assume
                    > > due to nickel, which is used in all their battery technologies).
                    >With that
                    > > kind of supply/demand situation, I don't expect their price to drop
                    >too soon
                    > > either. I'm thinking of ordering a set of NiCDs for our Force now
                    >so that
                    > > down the road, when we need to replace the battery pack, we'll have
                    >them!
                    > >
                    > > -Tom
                    > >
                    > > Thomas Hudson
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    >force_ev-unsubscribe@egroups.com

                    -----------------------------------------------------------
                    Bill Passman, Quarry Technologies 781.505.8300 x329
                    8 New England Executive Park, Burlington, MA 01803
                  • Tom Hudson
                    You d need to change the profile in the BC3300 charger (a simple reprogramming) and I suspect the motor controller would also have to be reprogrammed -- It has
                    Message 9 of 11 , Sep 21, 2000
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                      You'd need to change the profile in the BC3300 charger (a simple
                      reprogramming) and I suspect the motor controller would also have to be
                      reprogrammed -- It has regen and limp mode parameters that would probably
                      have to be updated. These are simple operations, Solectria has all the
                      profiles necessary.

                      Jeff, do you own a Force? If so, I'd like to add you to our owners' website
                      (URL below)!

                      -Tom

                      Thomas Hudson
                      http://asterius.com/solectria/ho -- Our Electric Vehicles
                      http://asterius.com/solectria/ho/pvs.htm -- Solar Power
                      http://asterius.com/solectria -- Solectria Owners Website

                      > -----Original Message-----
                      > From: Bill Passman [mailto:bpassman@...]
                      > Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 7:39 AM
                      > To: force_ev@egroups.com
                      > Subject: Re: [force_ev] Re: I drive a '92 or '93 Force
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > I suspect that there would be some charger modification, but Solectria
                      > would know for sure.
                      > -Bill
                      >
                      > At 03:23 AM 9/21/00, you wrote:
                      > >
                      > >Are the NiCd's a straight swap, or do you need to
                      > >add/change any battery management components?
                      > >
                      > >Thanks,
                      > >
                      > >- Jeff Saunders
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >--- In force_ev@egroups.com, "Tom Hudson" <tomhudson@e...> wrote:
                      > > > As for NiCD batteries, Saft is swamped with orders to the extent
                      > >that when I
                      > > > tried to order a set of NiCDs for our E-10, I was told that they
                      > >were at
                      > > > least 6-9 months lead time on orders, because of supply problems (I
                      > >assume
                      > > > due to nickel, which is used in all their battery technologies).
                      > >With that
                      > > > kind of supply/demand situation, I don't expect their price to drop
                      > >too soon
                      > > > either. I'm thinking of ordering a set of NiCDs for our Force now
                      > >so that
                      > > > down the road, when we need to replace the battery pack, we'll have
                      > >them!
                      > > >
                      > > > -Tom
                      > > >
                      > > > Thomas Hudson
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                      > >force_ev-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                      >
                      > -----------------------------------------------------------
                      > Bill Passman, Quarry Technologies 781.505.8300 x329
                      > 8 New England Executive Park, Burlington, MA 01803
                      >
                      >
                      > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                      > force_ev-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                      >
                      >
                      >
                    • Jeff Saunders
                      I don t own a Force (yet), but I covet Beckett s. - Jeff ... to be ... probably ... the ... owners website
                      Message 10 of 11 , Sep 21, 2000
                      • 0 Attachment
                        I don't own a Force (yet), but I covet Beckett's.

                        - Jeff

                        --- In force_ev@egroups.com, "Tom Hudson" <tomhudson@e...> wrote:
                        > You'd need to change the profile in the BC3300 charger (a simple
                        > reprogramming) and I suspect the motor controller would also have
                        to
                        be
                        > reprogrammed -- It has regen and limp mode parameters that would
                        probably
                        > have to be updated. These are simple operations, Solectria has all
                        the
                        > profiles necessary.
                        >
                        > Jeff, do you own a Force? If so, I'd like to add you to our
                        owners'
                        website
                        > (URL below)!
                        >
                        > -Tom
                        >
                        > >
                      • David Roden (Akron OH USA)
                        ... Here s what I ve been told, and have taken as my starting point. There may have been a change in Saft s charging instructions, but as of last year, it
                        Message 11 of 11 , Sep 25, 2000
                        • 0 Attachment
                          On 21 Sep 2000, at 12:16, Tom Hudson wrote:

                          > You'd need to change the profile in the BC3300 charger (a simple
                          > reprogramming) ...

                          Here's what I've been told, and have taken as my starting point. There
                          may have been a change in Saft's charging instructions, but as of last
                          year, it unfortunately wasn't quite that simple.

                          The following information applies only to the reduced maintenance (the
                          recombinant type with the MR/MRE suffix) Saft nicads. The older types
                          are different.

                          To do it the "canonical" way, you need at least an interface to the amp-
                          hour counter and possibly a new amp-hour counter. You will also need to
                          replace the logic board in the charger, because some of the i/o lines
                          perform different duties and the firmware is different. Also, the
                          charger's logic power supply must be re-connected to the battery side so
                          that it's powered up all the time. Solectria should be able to quote you
                          on performing this service. Sorry to say it's not as trivial as a simple
                          profile change.

                          The reason for the mods is that Saft requires (or requirED, as of about a
                          year ago) the charger to monitor not just on-charge voltage, but also amp-
                          hours into and out of the battery.

                          I think there are ways to use the stock charger w/o the interface and
                          logic board change, but I don't recommend them if you live in an area
                          where the temperature frequently exceeds 85 degrees F or so. I don't
                          know whether Solectria would be willing to set this up for you or not.
                          You'd also lose the Saft warranty and maybe Solectria's.

                          Someone with a moderate amount of engineering and programming expertise
                          could probably come pretty close to the Saft charging specs by using an E-
                          meter and a Basic Stamp. Of course this is not a Solectria-approved
                          solution either ...


                          David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
                          1991 Solectria Force 144vac
                          1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
                          1979 General Engines ElectroPed 24vdc
                          1974 Honda Civic EV 96vdc
                          1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
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