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Re: [solectria_ev] Re: Charger problem-

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  • Joshua Goldstein
    As an indication of how heat-sensitive is the charger (NLG4), mine recently has been cycling on and off every few seconds when first plugged in, but if I blow
    Message 1 of 9 , Sep 3, 2009
    • 0 Attachment
      As an indication of how heat-sensitive is the charger (NLG4), mine recently
      has been cycling on and off every few seconds when first plugged in, but if
      I blow into it hard a few times it settles down and runs the whole cycle
      fine. I've started charging with the trunk open (at least in summer). Any
      other way people can keep it cool might be a good idea.
      Joshua Goldstein '99 Force


      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "ldr214" <replytome@...>
      To: <solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 12:29 AM
      Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: Charger problem-


      > Don't think mine ran that long but similiar and it was in need of repair.
      > Are you getting any lights? The dreaded yellow one? Next step is codes in
      > the Monlog.
      >
      > Are you referring to a Brusa NLG4? I am.
      >
      >
      > MIke R
      > 97 Force
      >
      > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "dbswann4" <dbswann4@...> wrote:
      >>
      >> I am posting this for Heather in Clearlake,Tx. The 220 v charger runs for
      >> about 15 seconds, then cuts off. Unplug and re-plug the unit, and the
      >> same thing happens. It also happens when charging at 110v. Has anyone
      >> experienced this problem?
      >> Thanks, Bill S
      >>
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
    • Stephen Taylor
      How do you blow into an NLG4?  It is a closed black cube with a heat sink and fan on top.  No holes in the case to blow into.   On one of my NLG4s, I cut 2
      Message 2 of 9 , Sep 3, 2009
      • 0 Attachment
        How do you blow into an NLG4?  It is a closed black cube with a heat sink and fan on top.  No holes in the case to blow into.
         
        On one of my NLG4s, I cut 2 2inch holes in the case on opposite sides of the charger.  On one side I put a computer fan to pull cooler air thru the guts of the charger on the other side a cheap foam filter.  I did this for my NiCD NLG4 since they don't seem to last much more than a year or two anyways.  From what I see the NiCD charger also works twice as long as the regular one, because at the very least the NiCD batteries have almost twice the capacity of the lead acid batteries.  Also the NiCD charger brings the batteries up to as high as 212 volts at full power compared to only 183.3 volt for the lead acid charger at full power.
         
        I always charge my cars with the trunk open.  Then again with no public charging available in Atlanta, I alwyas am charging in my garage.
         
        Stephen Taylor


        --- On Thu, 9/3/09, Joshua Goldstein <jg@...> wrote:


        From: Joshua Goldstein <jg@...>
        Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Re: Charger problem-
        To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Thursday, September 3, 2009, 10:35 AM


         



        As an indication of how heat-sensitive is the charger (NLG4), mine recently
        has been cycling on and off every few seconds when first plugged in, but if
        I blow into it hard a few times it settles down and runs the whole cycle
        fine. I've started charging with the trunk open (at least in summer). Any
        other way people can keep it cool might be a good idea.
        Joshua Goldstein '99 Force

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "ldr214" <replytome@sbcglobal .net>
        To: <solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com>
        Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 12:29 AM
        Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: Charger problem-

        > Don't think mine ran that long but similiar and it was in need of repair.
        > Are you getting any lights? The dreaded yellow one? Next step is codes in
        > the Monlog.
        >
        > Are you referring to a Brusa NLG4? I am.
        >
        >
        > MIke R
        > 97 Force
        >
        > --- In solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com, "dbswann4" <dbswann4@.. .> wrote:
        >>
        >> I am posting this for Heather in Clearlake,Tx. The 220 v charger runs for
        >> about 15 seconds, then cuts off. Unplug and re-plug the unit, and the
        >> same thing happens. It also happens when charging at 110v. Has anyone
        >> experienced this problem?
        >> Thanks, Bill S
        >>
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ------------ --------- --------- ------
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >


















        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • ldr214
        Joshua, An open trunk and cool air really help the air cooled NLG4. But in hot weather what really works well to help keep the internal temp down is to turn
        Message 3 of 9 , Sep 3, 2009
        • 0 Attachment
          Joshua,
          An open trunk and cool air really help the air cooled NLG4. But in hot weather what really works well to help keep the internal temp down is to turn down the charging output. I've watched the charger internal temp via the mono program during many charge cycles. You can get a good temp drop at around 15 amps output. Charge time increase isn't very significant.

          Log into the charger and change the charge rate in section 1 of the charge profile from 20 down to about 15 amps. On my charger this drops the internal peak temperature a significant amount (around 20+ C.)

          FWIW I also unplug my charger so it isn't floating on very hot days. I use the car almost daily and feel like it isn't going to do the batteries any harm not to be on float but it is very apparent that the internal temperature of the charger slowly increases even in float mode when the air temp is above 90, after a few hours the cooling fan comes on.

          The NLG4 is such a capable charger I feel it is worth any effort to keep it working well.

          My temperature monitoring has found that hot weather charging adds about 5-10 degrees to the battery temp on a 20 AH charge, a drive adds about the same. Add them up and the batteries can get very warm very quick if you don't have a cooling period. So hot summer days can present a heat issue worth monitoring for pack life in addition to strain on the electronics like the charger.

          The Force battery compartments are optimized for keeping warm. Pba batteries lose capacity when cold but they last just as long or longer if kept cool and charged. Get them hot and capacity increases but the life expectancy goes down significantly.

          Keep cool,
          Mike R
          97 Force

          --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "Joshua Goldstein" <jg@...> wrote:
          >
          > As an indication of how heat-sensitive is the charger (NLG4), mine recently
          > has been cycling on and off every few seconds when first plugged in, but if
          > I blow into it hard a few times it settles down and runs the whole cycle
          > fine. I've started charging with the trunk open (at least in summer). Any
          > other way people can keep it cool might be a good idea.
          > Joshua Goldstein '99 Force
          >
          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: "ldr214" <replytome@...>
          > To: <solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com>
          > Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 12:29 AM
          > Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: Charger problem-
          >
          >
          > > Don't think mine ran that long but similiar and it was in need of repair.
          > > Are you getting any lights? The dreaded yellow one? Next step is codes in
          > > the Monlog.
          > >
          > > Are you referring to a Brusa NLG4? I am.
          > >
          > >
          > > MIke R
          > > 97 Force
          > >
          > > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "dbswann4" <dbswann4@> wrote:
          > >>
          > >> I am posting this for Heather in Clearlake,Tx. The 220 v charger runs for
          > >> about 15 seconds, then cuts off. Unplug and re-plug the unit, and the
          > >> same thing happens. It also happens when charging at 110v. Has anyone
          > >> experienced this problem?
          > >> Thanks, Bill S
          > >>
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > ------------------------------------
          > >
          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
        • EV Dave
          My charger is programmed to get a read on the batteries for about 1 minute before it starts charging.. When I plug in the charger, the fan does run for about 3
          Message 4 of 9 , Sep 3, 2009
          • 0 Attachment
            My charger is programmed to get a read on the batteries for about 1 minute
            before it starts charging.. When I plug in the charger, the fan does run for
            about 3 seconds before it shuts off, then a minute later the charging
            process starts up... just an fyi if it may apply to her situation. Is she
            sure it is really cutting off? Or is it possibly going into a precharge mode
            before it begins the real charging process?



            db



            Dave Banas

            Yardley, PA

            Solectria E10

            _____

            From: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com [mailto:solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com] On
            Behalf Of Joshua Goldstein
            Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 10:36 AM
            To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Re: Charger problem-





            As an indication of how heat-sensitive is the charger (NLG4), mine recently
            has been cycling on and off every few seconds when first plugged in, but if
            I blow into it hard a few times it settles down and runs the whole cycle
            fine. I've started charging with the trunk open (at least in summer). Any
            other way people can keep it cool might be a good idea.
            Joshua Goldstein '99 Force

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "ldr214" <replytome@sbcglobal <mailto:replytome%40sbcglobal.net> .net>
            To: <solectria_ev@ <mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 12:29 AM
            Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: Charger problem-

            > Don't think mine ran that long but similiar and it was in need of repair.
            > Are you getting any lights? The dreaded yellow one? Next step is codes in
            > the Monlog.
            >
            > Are you referring to a Brusa NLG4? I am.
            >
            >
            > MIke R
            > 97 Force
            >
            > --- In solectria_ev@ <mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com>
            yahoogroups.com, "dbswann4" <dbswann4@...> wrote:
            >>
            >> I am posting this for Heather in Clearlake,Tx. The 220 v charger runs for

            >> about 15 seconds, then cuts off. Unplug and re-plug the unit, and the
            >> same thing happens. It also happens when charging at 110v. Has anyone
            >> experienced this problem?
            >> Thanks, Bill S
            >>
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Joshua Goldstein
            Stephen, I blew in through the fan opening. Not that I m proposing it as a long-term solution! Cutting holes in the case would work better! Reminds me of the
            Message 5 of 9 , Sep 3, 2009
            • 0 Attachment
              Stephen, I blew in through the fan opening. Not that I'm proposing it as a
              long-term solution! Cutting holes in the case would work better! Reminds me
              of the early microcomputers where we used an open case, a fan, and a bowl of
              ice :-)
              Mike, that sounds like an excellent idea -- reprogramming the charger down
              to 15 amps. The NLG4 is a weak spot but there isn't anything else that
              works as well so we need to baby them (my opinion).
              Joshua


              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Stephen Taylor" <sparrow262@...>
              To: <solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 12:13 PM
              Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Re: Charger problem-


              > How do you blow into an NLG4? It is a closed black cube with a heat sink
              > and fan on top. No holes in the case to blow into.
              >
              > On one of my NLG4s, I cut 2 2inch holes in the case on opposite sides of
              > the charger. On one side I put a computer fan to pull cooler air thru the
              > guts of the charger on the other side a cheap foam filter. I did this for
              > my NiCD NLG4 since they don't seem to last much more than a year or two
              > anyways. From what I see the NiCD charger also works twice as long as the
              > regular one, because at the very least the NiCD batteries have almost
              > twice the capacity of the lead acid batteries. Also the NiCD charger
              > brings the batteries up to as high as 212 volts at full power compared to
              > only 183.3 volt for the lead acid charger at full power.
              >
              > I always charge my cars with the trunk open. Then again with no public
              > charging available in Atlanta, I alwyas am charging in my garage.
              >
              > Stephen Taylor
              >

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "ldr214" <replytome@...>
              To: <solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 1:13 PM
              Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: Charger problem-


              > Joshua,
              > An open trunk and cool air really help the air cooled NLG4. But in hot
              > weather what really works well to help keep the internal temp down is to
              > turn down the charging output. I've watched the charger internal temp via
              > the mono program during many charge cycles. You can get a good temp drop
              > at around 15 amps output. Charge time increase isn't very significant.
              >
              > Log into the charger and change the charge rate in section 1 of the charge
              > profile from 20 down to about 15 amps. On my charger this drops the
              > internal peak temperature a significant amount (around 20+ C.)
              >
              > FWIW I also unplug my charger so it isn't floating on very hot days. I use
              > the car almost daily and feel like it isn't going to do the batteries any
              > harm not to be on float but it is very apparent that the internal
              > temperature of the charger slowly increases even in float mode when the
              > air temp is above 90, after a few hours the cooling fan comes on.
              >
              > The NLG4 is such a capable charger I feel it is worth any effort to keep
              > it working well.
              >
              > My temperature monitoring has found that hot weather charging adds about
              > 5-10 degrees to the battery temp on a 20 AH charge, a drive adds about the
              > same. Add them up and the batteries can get very warm very quick if you
              > don't have a cooling period. So hot summer days can present a heat issue
              > worth monitoring for pack life in addition to strain on the electronics
              > like the charger.
              >
              > The Force battery compartments are optimized for keeping warm. Pba
              > batteries lose capacity when cold but they last just as long or longer if
              > kept cool and charged. Get them hot and capacity increases but the life
              > expectancy goes down significantly.
              >
              > Keep cool,
              > Mike R
              > 97 Force
              >
              > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "Joshua Goldstein" <jg@...> wrote:
              >>
              >> As an indication of how heat-sensitive is the charger (NLG4), mine
              >> recently
              >> has been cycling on and off every few seconds when first plugged in, but
              >> if
              >> I blow into it hard a few times it settles down and runs the whole cycle
              >> fine. I've started charging with the trunk open (at least in summer).
              >> Any
              >> other way people can keep it cool might be a good idea.
              >> Joshua Goldstein '99 Force
              >>
              >>
              >> ----- Original Message -----
              >> From: "ldr214" <replytome@...>
              >> To: <solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com>
              >> Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 12:29 AM
              >> Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: Charger problem-
              >>
              >>
              >> > Don't think mine ran that long but similiar and it was in need of
              >> > repair.
              >> > Are you getting any lights? The dreaded yellow one? Next step is codes
              >> > in
              >> > the Monlog.
              >> >
              >> > Are you referring to a Brusa NLG4? I am.
              >> >
              >> >
              >> > MIke R
              >> > 97 Force
              >> >
              >> > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "dbswann4" <dbswann4@> wrote:
              >> >>
              >> >> I am posting this for Heather in Clearlake,Tx. The 220 v charger runs
              >> >> for
              >> >> about 15 seconds, then cuts off. Unplug and re-plug the unit, and the
              >> >> same thing happens. It also happens when charging at 110v. Has anyone
              >> >> experienced this problem?
              >> >> Thanks, Bill S
              >> >>
              >> >
              >> >
              >> >
              >> >
              >> > ------------------------------------
              >> >
              >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >> >
              >> >
              >> >
              >>
              >
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
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