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UltraCapacitor power buffer

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  • Collin
    I am putting together a car with a DMOC445 controller and AC24 motor. The DMOC supports regenerative braking and so I d like to use that. Typically one does
    Message 1 of 12 , Jun 25, 2009
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      I am putting together a car with a DMOC445 controller and AC24 motor. The DMOC supports regenerative braking and so I'd like to use that.

      Typically one does not turn the regenerative braking up super high but I'm considering the possibility. If I turn it up a bunch (say, as part of the actual braking system) then it will be feeding a lot of amperage back to the batteries. They may or may not be low enough to accept the whole charge. Whether they are low or not it's not a really great idea to juice batteries with 200 amps for a couple of seconds straight. It's entirely likely that even a half depleted (well... half of the usable charge) will not want to accept that much power. Sooo... to make a long story even longer, I'm considering buffering the DC side of the DMOC with ultracapacitors. I'm thinking of maybe 300-500 farads. This would easily be plenty of buffer. Not only could it shield the batteries from large charging currents but it could also assist them with large demand surges on acceleration. Both would help to prolong and optimize battery life. Has anyone tried this? Any suggestions?
    • reed_bement
      It has been done. See the following white paper for details: http://www.nesscap.com/data_nesscap/EVS19SuperCapPaper_Evermont.pdf
      Message 2 of 12 , Jun 26, 2009
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        It has been done. See the following white paper for details:
        http://www.nesscap.com/data_nesscap/EVS19SuperCapPaper_Evermont.pdf

        --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "Collin" <adderd@...> wrote:
        >
        > I am putting together a car with a DMOC445 controller and AC24 motor. The DMOC supports regenerative braking and so I'd like to use that.
        >
        > Typically one does not turn the regenerative braking up super high but I'm considering the possibility. If I turn it up a bunch (say, as part of the actual braking system) then it will be feeding a lot of amperage back to the batteries. They may or may not be low enough to accept the whole charge. Whether they are low or not it's not a really great idea to juice batteries with 200 amps for a couple of seconds straight. It's entirely likely that even a half depleted (well... half of the usable charge) will not want to accept that much power. Sooo... to make a long story even longer, I'm considering buffering the DC side of the DMOC with ultracapacitors. I'm thinking of maybe 300-500 farads. This would easily be plenty of buffer. Not only could it shield the batteries from large charging currents but it could also assist them with large demand surges on acceleration. Both would help to prolong and optimize battery life. Has anyone tried this? Any suggestions?
        >
      • Collin Kidder
        Good stuff! Thanks for the link. It s good to even have graphs and a study. Of course, it does seem to be a study done by a... shall we say... party with a
        Message 3 of 12 , Jun 26, 2009
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          Good stuff! Thanks for the link. It's good to even have graphs and a
          study. Of course, it does seem to be a study done by a... shall we
          say... party with a vested interest in the results. But still it seems
          to prove that there is at least some small benefit to using caps.

          On 6/26/2009 8:31 AM, reed_bement wrote:
          >
          >
          > It has been done. See the following white paper for details:
          > http://www.nesscap.com/data_nesscap/EVS19SuperCapPaper_Evermont.pdf
          > <http://www.nesscap.com/data_nesscap/EVS19SuperCapPaper_Evermont.pdf>
          >
          > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
          > <mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com>, "Collin" <adderd@...> wrote:
          > >
          > > I am putting together a car with a DMOC445 controller and AC24
          > motor. The DMOC supports regenerative braking and so I'd like to use
          > that.
          > >
          > > Typically one does not turn the regenerative braking up super high
          > but I'm considering the possibility. If I turn it up a bunch (say, as
          > part of the actual braking system) then it will be feeding a lot of
          > amperage back to the batteries. They may or may not be low enough to
          > accept the whole charge. Whether they are low or not it's not a really
          > great idea to juice batteries with 200 amps for a couple of seconds
          > straight. It's entirely likely that even a half depleted (well... half
          > of the usable charge) will not want to accept that much power. Sooo...
          > to make a long story even longer, I'm considering buffering the DC
          > side of the DMOC with ultracapacitors. I'm thinking of maybe 300-500
          > farads. This would easily be plenty of buffer. Not only could it
          > shield the batteries from large charging currents but it could also
          > assist them with large demand surges on acceleration. Both would help
          > to prolong and optimize battery life. Has anyone tried this? Any
          > suggestions?
          > >
          >
          >



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • EVDave
          Folks, I subscribe to an auction site for the state of NEW JERSEY. As many of you know, NJ had a bunch of solectrias that they used. There are three going to
          Message 4 of 12 , Jun 26, 2009
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            Folks,



            I subscribe to an auction site for the state of NEW JERSEY. As many of you
            know, NJ had a bunch of solectrias that they used. There are three going to
            auction if anyone is interested in parts. Here is the link.
            http://www.state.nj.us/treasury/dss/ click on Vehicle Auction and look at
            the bottom of page 4.



            That's is all I know. I am not affiliated with the site at all but I though
            some of you might be interested. Figured someone could get them for a
            song...



            Dave Banas

            Solectria E10

            Yardley, PA



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • ldr214
            If it is the same Vermont study I read a few years ago it has some basic errors in method. One was they put extra weight in the Pba only car. Sort of like my
            Message 5 of 12 , Jun 26, 2009
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              If it is the same Vermont study I read a few years ago it has some basic "errors" in method.

              One was they put extra weight in the Pba only car. Sort of like my having a Lithium powered car carry as much weight as a Pba pack just to make it a fair test.

              Until they can store a lot more energy the biggest advantage of caps probably comes in taming the Peukert factor of a Pba. But at a high cost and with NiMh and/or the Lithium option giving way more bang for the buck it isn't a tough choice to make.

              If someone comes up with a cheap high capacity ultra cap then we all benefit. So far they seem to only be "cheap" if your the gov't spending tax dollars or your driving something way more exotic than a Solectria.

              Anyone have a bunch sitting around that they want to sell cheap ;-)

              Mike R
              97 Force

              --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, Collin Kidder <adderd@...> wrote:
              >
              > Good stuff! Thanks for the link. It's good to even have graphs and a
              > study. Of course, it does seem to be a study done by a... shall we
              > say... party with a vested interest in the results. But still it seems
              > to prove that there is at least some small benefit to using caps.
              >
              > On 6/26/2009 8:31 AM, reed_bement wrote:
              > >
              > >
              > > It has been done. See the following white paper for details:
              > > http://www.nesscap.com/data_nesscap/EVS19SuperCapPaper_Evermont.pdf
              > > <http://www.nesscap.com/data_nesscap/EVS19SuperCapPaper_Evermont.pdf>
              > >
              > > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
              > > <mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com>, "Collin" <adderd@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > I am putting together a car with a DMOC445 controller and AC24
              > > motor. The DMOC supports regenerative braking and so I'd like to use
              > > that.
              > > >
              > > > Typically one does not turn the regenerative braking up super high
              > > but I'm considering the possibility. If I turn it up a bunch (say, as
              > > part of the actual braking system) then it will be feeding a lot of
              > > amperage back to the batteries. They may or may not be low enough to
              > > accept the whole charge. Whether they are low or not it's not a really
              > > great idea to juice batteries with 200 amps for a couple of seconds
              > > straight. It's entirely likely that even a half depleted (well... half
              > > of the usable charge) will not want to accept that much power. Sooo...
              > > to make a long story even longer, I'm considering buffering the DC
              > > side of the DMOC with ultracapacitors. I'm thinking of maybe 300-500
              > > farads. This would easily be plenty of buffer. Not only could it
              > > shield the batteries from large charging currents but it could also
              > > assist them with large demand surges on acceleration. Both would help
              > > to prolong and optimize battery life. Has anyone tried this? Any
              > > suggestions?
              > > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • Charles Bliss
              Is anyone going to bid on them? I would hate to see these goto scrap or?? Too far for me to go. From: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
              Message 6 of 12 , Jun 30, 2009
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                Is anyone going to bid on them? I would hate to see these goto scrap or??
                Too far for me to go.



                From: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com [mailto:solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com] On
                Behalf Of EVDave
                Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 11:50 AM
                To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [solectria_ev] Solectria vehicles at state auction








                Folks,

                I subscribe to an auction site for the state of NEW JERSEY. As many of you
                know, NJ had a bunch of solectrias that they used. There are three going to
                auction if anyone is interested in parts. Here is the link.
                http://www.state.nj.us/treasury/dss/ click on Vehicle Auction and look at
                the bottom of page 4.

                That's is all I know. I am not affiliated with the site at all but I though
                some of you might be interested. Figured someone could get them for a
                song...

                Dave Banas

                Solectria E10

                Yardley, PA

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • EVDave
                Im probably gonna go if anyone else is gonna be there. say hi.. I don t know if ill bid but if I can get a second e10, it would be a fun project to rebuild and
                Message 7 of 12 , Jun 30, 2009
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                  Im probably gonna go if anyone else is gonna be there. say hi..



                  I don't know if ill bid but if I can get a second e10, it would be a fun
                  project to rebuild and ebay off.



                  Don't worry wolf, if I buy it for parts ill keep you in mind for the AC
                  stuff.. :-)



                  Dave Banas

                  Yardley, PA

                  Solectria E-10



                  _____

                  From: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com [mailto:solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com] On
                  Behalf Of Charles Bliss
                  Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 1:07 PM
                  To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: RE: [solectria_ev] Solectria vehicles at state auction








                  Is anyone going to bid on them? I would hate to see these goto scrap or??
                  Too far for me to go.

                  From: solectria_ev@ <mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
                  [mailto:solectria_ev@ <mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com>
                  yahoogroups.com] On
                  Behalf Of EVDave
                  Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 11:50 AM
                  To: solectria_ev@ <mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [solectria_ev] Solectria vehicles at state auction

                  Folks,

                  I subscribe to an auction site for the state of NEW JERSEY. As many of you
                  know, NJ had a bunch of solectrias that they used. There are three going to
                  auction if anyone is interested in parts. Here is the link.
                  http://www.state <http://www.state.nj.us/treasury/dss/> nj.us/treasury/dss/
                  click on Vehicle Auction and look at
                  the bottom of page 4.

                  That's is all I know. I am not affiliated with the site at all but I though
                  some of you might be interested. Figured someone could get them for a
                  song...

                  Dave Banas

                  Solectria E10

                  Yardley, PA

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Arthur Marquardt
                  It is a pity they don t describe them better is anybody available to inspect them. They might be good as parts vehicles. Art ________________________________
                  Message 8 of 12 , Jun 30, 2009
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                    It is a pity they don't describe them better is anybody available to inspect them. They might be good as parts vehicles.
                    Art




                    ________________________________
                    From: Charles Bliss <cbliss@...>
                    To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 12:07:03 PM
                    Subject: RE: [solectria_ev] Solectria vehicles at state auction





                    Is anyone going to bid on them? I would hate to see these goto scrap or??
                    Too far for me to go.

                    From: solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com] On
                    Behalf Of EVDave
                    Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 11:50 AM
                    To: solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com
                    Subject: [solectria_ev] Solectria vehicles at state auction

                    Folks,

                    I subscribe to an auction site for the state of NEW JERSEY. As many of you
                    know, NJ had a bunch of solectrias that they used. There are three going to
                    auction if anyone is interested in parts. Here is the link.
                    http://www.state nj.us/treasury/ dss/ click on Vehicle Auction and look at
                    the bottom of page 4.

                    That's is all I know. I am not affiliated with the site at all but I though
                    some of you might be interested. Figured someone could get them for a
                    song...

                    Dave Banas

                    Solectria E10

                    Yardley, PA

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • kevin gildea
                    I will go and buy all 3 and will only want to keep one.I am certain that others will bid also and that they will not be scrapped. Kevin Gildea. Hingham , Ma.
                    Message 9 of 12 , Jun 30, 2009
                    • 0 Attachment
                      I will go and buy all 3 and will only want to keep one.I am certain that
                      others will bid also and that they will not be scrapped. Kevin Gildea.
                      Hingham , Ma. 781 243 9699

                      On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 1:07 PM, Charles Bliss <cbliss@...> wrote:

                      >
                      >
                      > Is anyone going to bid on them? I would hate to see these goto scrap or??
                      > Too far for me to go.
                      >
                      > From: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com <solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:
                      > solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com <solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com>] On
                      > Behalf Of EVDave
                      > Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 11:50 AM
                      > To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com <solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com>
                      > Subject: [solectria_ev] Solectria vehicles at state auction
                      >
                      >
                      > Folks,
                      >
                      > I subscribe to an auction site for the state of NEW JERSEY. As many of you
                      > know, NJ had a bunch of solectrias that they used. There are three going to
                      > auction if anyone is interested in parts. Here is the link.
                      > http://www.state.nj.us/treasury/dss/ click on Vehicle Auction and look at
                      > the bottom of page 4.
                      >
                      > That's is all I know. I am not affiliated with the site at all but I though
                      > some of you might be interested. Figured someone could get them for a
                      > song...
                      >
                      > Dave Banas
                      >
                      > Solectria E10
                      >
                      > Yardley, PA
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >
                      >


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Charles Bliss
                      And I and others in the group would be very interested in purchasing / shipping and providing you some profit for your trouble. From:
                      Message 10 of 12 , Jun 30, 2009
                      • 0 Attachment
                        And I and others in the group would be very interested in purchasing /
                        shipping and providing you some profit for your trouble.



                        From: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com [mailto:solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com] On
                        Behalf Of kevin gildea
                        Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 11:33 AM
                        To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Solectria vehicles at state auction








                        I will go and buy all 3 and will only want to keep one.I am certain that
                        others will bid also and that they will not be scrapped. Kevin Gildea.
                        Hingham , Ma. 781 243 9699

                        On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 1:07 PM, Charles Bliss <cbliss@...
                        <mailto:cbliss%40cbliss.com> > wrote:

                        >
                        >
                        > Is anyone going to bid on them? I would hate to see these goto scrap or??
                        > Too far for me to go.
                        >
                        > From: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com <mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com>
                        <solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:
                        > solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com <mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com>
                        <solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com>] On
                        > Behalf Of EVDave
                        > Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 11:50 AM
                        > To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com <mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com>
                        <solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com>
                        > Subject: [solectria_ev] Solectria vehicles at state auction
                        >
                        >
                        > Folks,
                        >
                        > I subscribe to an auction site for the state of NEW JERSEY. As many of you
                        > know, NJ had a bunch of solectrias that they used. There are three going
                        to
                        > auction if anyone is interested in parts. Here is the link.
                        > http://www.state.nj.us/treasury/dss/ click on Vehicle Auction and look at
                        > the bottom of page 4.
                        >
                        > That's is all I know. I am not affiliated with the site at all but I
                        though
                        > some of you might be interested. Figured someone could get them for a
                        > song...
                        >
                        > Dave Banas
                        >
                        > Solectria E10
                        >
                        > Yardley, PA
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        >
                        >

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Wolf
                        Sweet. :) I never heard back from the other guy that was selling his AC parts. Hopefully they are 144 volt trucks. :) Wolf *wags his tail* www.wolftronix.com
                        Message 11 of 12 , Jul 1 9:34 PM
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Sweet. :)

                          I never heard back from the other guy that was selling his AC parts.

                          Hopefully they are 144 volt trucks. :)

                          Wolf
                          *wags his tail*
                          www.wolftronix.com

                          > Im probably gonna go if anyone else is gonna be there. say hi..
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > I don't know if ill bid but if I can get a second e10, it would be a fun
                          > project to rebuild and ebay off.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Don't worry wolf, if I buy it for parts ill keep you in mind for the AC
                          > stuff.. :-)
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Dave Banas
                          >
                          > Yardley, PA
                          >
                          > Solectria E-10
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > _____
                          >
                          > From: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com [mailto:solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com]
                          > On
                          > Behalf Of Charles Bliss
                          > Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 1:07 PM
                          > To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                          > Subject: RE: [solectria_ev] Solectria vehicles at state auction
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Is anyone going to bid on them? I would hate to see these goto scrap or??
                          > Too far for me to go.
                          >
                          > From: solectria_ev@ <mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com>
                          > yahoogroups.com
                          > [mailto:solectria_ev@ <mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com>
                          > yahoogroups.com] On
                          > Behalf Of EVDave
                          > Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 11:50 AM
                          > To: solectria_ev@ <mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
                          > Subject: [solectria_ev] Solectria vehicles at state auction
                          >
                          > Folks,
                          >
                          > I subscribe to an auction site for the state of NEW JERSEY. As many of you
                          > know, NJ had a bunch of solectrias that they used. There are three going
                          > to
                          > auction if anyone is interested in parts. Here is the link.
                          > http://www.state <http://www.state.nj.us/treasury/dss/>
                          > nj.us/treasury/dss/
                          > click on Vehicle Auction and look at
                          > the bottom of page 4.
                          >
                          > That's is all I know. I am not affiliated with the site at all but I
                          > though
                          > some of you might be interested. Figured someone could get them for a
                          > song...
                          >
                          > Dave Banas
                          >
                          > Solectria E10
                          >
                          > Yardley, PA
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                          >
                        • mike young
                          i will be in attendance with interest. mike young ... From: EVDave To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 1:26 PM Subject: RE:
                          Message 12 of 12 , Jul 4 3:19 AM
                          • 0 Attachment
                            i will be in attendance with interest. mike young
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: EVDave
                            To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 1:26 PM
                            Subject: RE: [solectria_ev] Solectria vehicles at state auction





                            Im probably gonna go if anyone else is gonna be there. say hi..

                            I don't know if ill bid but if I can get a second e10, it would be a fun
                            project to rebuild and ebay off.

                            Don't worry wolf, if I buy it for parts ill keep you in mind for the AC
                            stuff.. :-)

                            Dave Banas

                            Yardley, PA

                            Solectria E-10

                            _____

                            From: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com [mailto:solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com] On
                            Behalf Of Charles Bliss
                            Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 1:07 PM
                            To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: RE: [solectria_ev] Solectria vehicles at state auction

                            Is anyone going to bid on them? I would hate to see these goto scrap or??
                            Too far for me to go.

                            From: solectria_ev@ <mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
                            [mailto:solectria_ev@ <mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com>
                            yahoogroups.com] On
                            Behalf Of EVDave
                            Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 11:50 AM
                            To: solectria_ev@ <mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: [solectria_ev] Solectria vehicles at state auction

                            Folks,

                            I subscribe to an auction site for the state of NEW JERSEY. As many of you
                            know, NJ had a bunch of solectrias that they used. There are three going to
                            auction if anyone is interested in parts. Here is the link.
                            http://www.state <http://www.state.nj.us/treasury/dss/> nj.us/treasury/dss/
                            click on Vehicle Auction and look at
                            the bottom of page 4.

                            That's is all I know. I am not affiliated with the site at all but I though
                            some of you might be interested. Figured someone could get them for a
                            song...

                            Dave Banas

                            Solectria E10

                            Yardley, PA

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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