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Re: Charger options?

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  • Todd Martin
    Hi Ken, I was in the same boat you are in last year. My work has 120V and I have 240V at home with a broken NLG4. I bought an NLG5 from Metric Mind and have
    Message 1 of 14 , Jun 1, 2009
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      Hi Ken,

      I was in the same boat you are in last year. My work has 120V and I have 240V at home with a broken NLG4. I bought an NLG5 from Metric Mind and have been happy with it.

      A word of caution about the Manzanita Micro. A friend of mine bought one for use in his EV. The Regs failed one day and his batteries were fried. The charger failed at least 3 times before he ended up selling the EV. Each time, Manzanita fixed it (sometimes under warranty) promptly. His comments were that the charger is very powerful, but dumb and easy to break.

      Let me give you an example: When I bought my NLG5, I installed it myself and made a couple mistakes. First, I got confused and switched a control wire with a hot lead. The charger charged at 120V when fed 240V power, it did nothing when fed 120V. Other than that, the charger worked. Separately, I once fed the NLG5 240V juice when it was not hooked up to the battery pack. In that case, a little warning light came on to tell me what I did wrong.

      I believe if I had made the same sort of mistakes with the PFC, it would be cooked.

      Best regards,
      Todd Martin
      '97 Force, Elgin IL

      --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, Ken Olum <kdo@...> wrote:
      >
      > I was not able to fix my Brusa NLG4, so now I'm looking for a new
      > charger. I need to be able to charge on both 120V and 240V. The
      > choices seem to be these:
      >
      > Brusa NLG5: A straightforward replacement of the NLG4. There is even
      > an adapter cable so you don't have to make new wires. Presumably it
      > would treat my batteries very well, just like its predecessor.
      > However, it costs $4000 and does not charge very quickly on 120V
      > (albeit better than the NLG4). Probably 6A output current.
      >
      > Zivan NG3: Sadly, these chargers take a fixed input voltage, so I
      > would need 2. Even so, they are available for about $1100 each, so
      > this is still cheaper than the Brusa. The 120V Zivan charges more
      > quickly than the Brusa, but it draws 18A, raising a possible issue of
      > blowing circuit breakers. This is particularly an issue because my partner
      > works in a building whose garage is very well supplied with 120V
      > outlets, but we have not made any arrangement with the owners of that
      > building, and so would not have any way to reset a circuit breaker.
      >
      > The Zivan has a single temperature sensor, so I would have to either
      > guess which battery compartment is hotter, or devise some plan for
      > automatically switching to the hotter sensor.
      >
      > Manzanita Micro PFC-20, plus 13 individual bypass regulators: Since
      > the charger itself is not temperature compensated, the regulators seem
      > mandatory. The entire package costs about $2600. I wrote to Rich
      > Rudman and he does recommend this charger for gel batteries.
      > This charger has exactly the input stage I want. It can charge on any
      > voltage (60-240), and the input current can be throttled down with a
      > knob. I don't know if this would do a better or worse job than my
      > Brusa. The procedure is very different, but the batteries would have
      > individual regulators, so perhaps it would be better.
      >
      > If I used a PFC-20 I think I would have to shut down the charger when
      > the batteries were charged, rather than floating them. Again, I'm
      > not sure if this is better or worse, although there is the issue that
      > if you don't use the car for several days there is some drain.
      >
      > The PFC-20 is not isolated. This poses a danger if there is a current
      > leak to the frame of the car. In fact, I have such a leak, but it has
      > a very high resistance, and any case I ought to fix it. This danger
      > can be ameliorated by installing a GFCI, which I don't have now.
      > (There was a long discussion on this subject on the EV list in 2002,
      > under the title "Yet another charger question". See
      > http://www.mail-archive.com/ev@.../msg02942.html).
      >
      > I don't see any option I really like here. I'm leaning toward the
      > PFC-20, but I'd be interested in hearing opinions. Especially I'd
      > like to know if anyone has a PFC-20 on a Force.
      >
      > Thanks very much.
      >
      > Ken
      >
    • Robert D. Strattan
      I m in the same boat - I have a 97 Force with 156 V Deka 8G27 gel batteries. My Solectria BC1600 120 Vac charger went belly up. I was ready to by a Zivan
      Message 2 of 14 , Jun 1, 2009
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        I'm in the same boat - I have a '97 Force with 156 V Deka 8G27 gel
        batteries. My Solectria BC1600 120 Vac charger went belly up. I was ready
        to by a Zivan NG3 until I talked with Gregory McCrea at Electric Conversions
        (ElCon) in Sacramento this weekend. He recommended his HF/PFC. I just
        closed the order for a 4,000 W unit he had in stock that will work for both
        120 and 240 Vac and is power factor corrected so it can be tuned to work on
        a 20 Amp 120 Vac circuit. Just slightly higher $s than the Zivan and has
        same charging profile ability. I have dealt with them before, and they know
        their business at ElCon.

        I strongly recommend talking to ElCon at (916) 441-4161, elcon@...
        before you make a decision.

        Is anyone else using the ElCon HF/PFC charger?

        Bob Strattan
        Tulsa, OK
        Email r.strattan@...
      • kappa3842000
        My NLG5 Brusa charger is becoming flakey and I have been considering going to individual chargers. I am including a past note posted by Allan Poulsen (see
        Message 3 of 14 , Jun 1, 2009
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          My NLG5 Brusa charger is becoming flakey and I have been considering going to individual chargers. I am including a past note posted by Allan Poulsen (see below). Note that he uses the individual chargers as a complement to his existing bulk charger, whereas I would use them in a dedicated manner. Soneil chargers can be purchased for $87CDN each (see http://econogics.com/Soneil/pricelst.pdf) however they need to be individually calibrated and many not be able to go up to the Deka recommended 14.1 volts, which is a worry, as I observe that the car really loves that little overcharge burst at the end of the charge cycle.

          *** Does anyone know is Deka/East-Penn recommends specific individual chargers for their Gel batteries? ***

          I have also seen the warning that with individual chargers batteries must be monitored individually after the charge to ensure that they all completed the charge (i.e. one charger did not go defective during the night) because using the pack in that state would cause serious problems.

          Insights appreciated! Thank you.

          Etienne
          1998 Solectria Force
          Ottawa Ont



          ----- Forwarded Message ----
          From: Allan Poulsen <sparkyev_ca@...>
          To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Friday, April 3, 2009 6:13:36 PM
          Subject: [solectria_ev] Notes on using individual battery chargers

          I've had success with balancing batteries in my truck conversion using
          Soneil 1212SRs, one per 12V segment in the string. You should be able
          to put 13 of these (total 156VDC nominal, 5A output) on a 15A 120VAC
          circuit without blowing a fuse, as I've used 12 easily. They are a
          "smart" charger.

          As my truck is using 6V GC batteries, I will be further optimizing to
          use individual 6V chargers (Soneil 604CC) and adding a Paktrakr. I see
          that Soneil also has smaller 12V chargers (1A and 2A) if all you want
          to do is balance batteries after using your bulk charger, and when
          idle. The advantage of 5A was that I then rarely used the bulk charger.

          http://www.soneil com/12_volt. html

          This method is also allowing me to more easily mix older and new
          batteries, and thus make each battery last longer. I have experienced
          a 30% improvement in battery life using the 1212SRs over just using my
          bulk charger.

          I have no connection with Soneil or Paktrakr - it's just the products
          that I use. Other brands may also be suitable for use in series strings.

          Tips on using Soneil 1212SR, and other 12V chargers connected to a
          series string:
          1) Double check each charger that the outputs are isolated from both
          ground and input leads before connecting to the pack. I had 2 shorted
          units with negative output shorted to the metal case - see #2! Soneil
          was notified and I've been assured this was corrected in their
          manufacture process.
          2) Fuse all connections (max 20A) to the battery as close to the
          battery terminal as possible. If any chargers have ground shorts, you
          will really appreciate this! There is no fuse in the 1212SR!
          3) If using extension wiring from batteries to a terminal block,
          again, use a fuse as close to the battery terminal as possible, and
          suitable gauge wire (I used 12 guage). Also, as these are "smart"
          chargers that occasionally read the voltage of the battery, and have a
          "pulse" phase (see specs), you don't want to share a wire between 2
          chargers (eg. positive of one charger and negative of another charger
          on the same wire to the same point in the pack) since a wire has a
          resistance and thus a measurable voltage when current is flowing. If
          you want each charger to truly maintain the battery it is connected
          to, use dedicated wiring from both charger outputs to both battery
          terminals without sharing these wires with other chargers/batteries.
          4) Check calibration periodically - best done with a Paktrakr or other
          monitoring device to ensure each battery/charger completed the
          expected charge cycle. Note that having separate chargers also helps
          deal with the imbalance that a Paktrakr can cause (sucks a small
          current from first battery in the string monitored by a remote).
          5) If mounting the charger bricks together, use a 1/2 inch spacer of
          some type, and provide a fan to circulate air around the chargers. If
          they get too hot by being packed in too tightly, they will power down
          (and appear to have completed the cycle). Again, use a monitoring
          system to ensure each battery completed it's charge cycle.

          Cheers,
          Allan





          --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, Ken Olum <kdo@...> wrote:
          >
          > I was not able to fix my Brusa NLG4, so now I'm looking for a new
          > charger. I need to be able to charge on both 120V and 240V. The
          > choices seem to be these:
          >
          > Brusa NLG5: A straightforward replacement of the NLG4. There is even
          > an adapter cable so you don't have to make new wires. Presumably it
          > would treat my batteries very well, just like its predecessor.
          > However, it costs $4000 and does not charge very quickly on 120V
          > (albeit better than the NLG4). Probably 6A output current.
          >
          > Zivan NG3: Sadly, these chargers take a fixed input voltage, so I
          > would need 2. Even so, they are available for about $1100 each, so
          > this is still cheaper than the Brusa. The 120V Zivan charges more
          > quickly than the Brusa, but it draws 18A, raising a possible issue of
          > blowing circuit breakers. This is particularly an issue because my partner
          > works in a building whose garage is very well supplied with 120V
          > outlets, but we have not made any arrangement with the owners of that
          > building, and so would not have any way to reset a circuit breaker.
          >
          > The Zivan has a single temperature sensor, so I would have to either
          > guess which battery compartment is hotter, or devise some plan for
          > automatically switching to the hotter sensor.
          >
          > Manzanita Micro PFC-20, plus 13 individual bypass regulators: Since
          > the charger itself is not temperature compensated, the regulators seem
          > mandatory. The entire package costs about $2600. I wrote to Rich
          > Rudman and he does recommend this charger for gel batteries.
          > This charger has exactly the input stage I want. It can charge on any
          > voltage (60-240), and the input current can be throttled down with a
          > knob. I don't know if this would do a better or worse job than my
          > Brusa. The procedure is very different, but the batteries would have
          > individual regulators, so perhaps it would be better.
          >
          > If I used a PFC-20 I think I would have to shut down the charger when
          > the batteries were charged, rather than floating them. Again, I'm
          > not sure if this is better or worse, although there is the issue that
          > if you don't use the car for several days there is some drain.
          >
          > The PFC-20 is not isolated. This poses a danger if there is a current
          > leak to the frame of the car. In fact, I have such a leak, but it has
          > a very high resistance, and any case I ought to fix it. This danger
          > can be ameliorated by installing a GFCI, which I don't have now.
          > (There was a long discussion on this subject on the EV list in 2002,
          > under the title "Yet another charger question". See
          > http://www.mail-archive.com/ev@.../msg02942.html).
          >
          > I don't see any option I really like here. I'm leaning toward the
          > PFC-20, but I'd be interested in hearing opinions. Especially I'd
          > like to know if anyone has a PFC-20 on a Force.
          >
          > Thanks very much.
          >
          > Ken
          >
        • Charles Bliss
          I am running a set of Soneil 1212RS. The down side is at 5 amps, it is kind of slow. I purchased them direct from Soneil for a very good price. Because of
          Message 4 of 14 , Jun 1, 2009
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            I am running a set of Soneil 1212RS. The down side is at 5 amps, it is kind
            of slow. I purchased them direct from Soneil for a very good price.
            Because of the quantity, they considered the sale as "dealer pricing" I
            have never calibrated them but have not seen any variation of note either.
            I am running Lifeline AGM batteries.

            From: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com [mailto:solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com] On
            Behalf Of kappa3842000
            Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 2:42 PM
            To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: Charger options?




            My NLG5 Brusa charger is becoming flakey and I have been considering going
            to individual chargers. I am including a past note posted by Allan Poulsen
            (see below). Note that he uses the individual chargers as a complement to
            his existing bulk charger, whereas I would use them in a dedicated manner.
            Soneil chargers can be purchased for $87CDN each (see
            http://econogics.com/Soneil/pricelst.pdf) however they need to be
            individually calibrated and many not be able to go up to the Deka
            recommended 14.1 volts, which is a worry, as I observe that the car really
            loves that little overcharge burst at the end of the charge cycle.

            *** Does anyone know is Deka/East-Penn recommends specific individual
            chargers for their Gel batteries? ***

            I have also seen the warning that with individual chargers batteries must be
            monitored individually after the charge to ensure that they all completed
            the charge (i.e. one charger did not go defective during the night) because
            using the pack in that state would cause serious problems.

            Insights appreciated! Thank you.

            Etienne
            1998 Solectria Force
            Ottawa Ont
          • Ken Olum
            Dear Bob, Thanks again for the recommendation. I ve had a long conversation with Greg McCrea. This seems like a very good unit at an attractive price. At
            Message 5 of 14 , Jun 2, 2009
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              Dear Bob,

              Thanks again for the recommendation. I've had a long conversation
              with Greg McCrea. This seems like a very good unit at an attractive
              price. At Greg's recommendation, I'll wait for you to get yours and
              make sure everything works right for you before getting one of my own,
              but I'll probably buy from him.

              Incidentally, he told me that it's fine to mount the charger with the
              fins sticking up (the position marked "marginal" in the
              documentation). On the other hand, he recommends that we should have
              ventilation in our trunks (or open the trunk), so that the charger is
              not operating in an enclosed space.

              Ken
            • Stephen Taylor
              Is the charger really 4000 watts?  Last fall Greg talked about this unit, but it was going to be 1500 watts or less whether using 240 volts or 120 volts from
              Message 6 of 14 , Jun 2, 2009
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                Is the charger really 4000 watts?  Last fall Greg talked about this unit, but it was going to be 1500 watts or less whether using 240 volts or 120 volts from what I can remember of my conversation at the time.   If it is 4000 watts I'm assuming it goes at reduced power for 120 volts, what rate would that be at 120 volts?
                 
                I always charge my cars with the trunk open anyways.
                 
                Stephen Taylor

                --- On Tue, 6/2/09, Ken Olum <kdo@...> wrote:


                From: Ken Olum <kdo@...>
                Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Re:Charger options?
                To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Tuesday, June 2, 2009, 12:43 PM








                Dear Bob,

                Thanks again for the recommendation. I've had a long conversation
                with Greg McCrea. This seems like a very good unit at an attractive
                price. At Greg's recommendation, I'll wait for you to get yours and
                make sure everything works right for you before getting one of my own,
                but I'll probably buy from him.

                Incidentally, he told me that it's fine to mount the charger with the
                fins sticking up (the position marked "marginal" in the
                documentation) . On the other hand, he recommends that we should have
                ventilation in our trunks (or open the trunk), so that the charger is
                not operating in an enclosed space.

                Ken


















                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Jerry Pohorsky
                Hi Stephen, Yes, the charger really is 4,000 watts. There is also a 1,500 watt unit as you mentioned. Even more surprising is that Greg also has a 5,000 Watt
                Message 7 of 14 , Jun 2, 2009
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                  Hi Stephen,

                  Yes, the charger really is 4,000 watts.
                  There is also a 1,500 watt unit as you mentioned.
                  Even more surprising is that Greg also has a 5,000 Watt unit.
                  I think there is also a 3,000 watt unit, but I have to check my email
                  from him to confirm that.

                  I got a user guide from him along with a price list dated April 1, 2009
                  (no fooling).

                  The chargers put out about half as much charge current at 120 VAC than
                  they do a 240 VAC as you would expect.
                  I have a photo of the 5,000 watt unit that shows a small fan in the
                  middle of the heat sink.

                  I'll see if I am successful in uploading these documents in the files
                  section.

                  Adios,

                  Jerry Pohorsky


                  Stephen Taylor wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > Is the charger really 4000 watts? Last fall Greg talked about this
                  > unit, but it was going to be 1500 watts or less whether using 240
                  > volts or 120 volts from what I can remember of my conversation at the
                  > time. If it is 4000 watts I'm assuming it goes at reduced power for
                  > 120 volts, what rate would that be at 120 volts?
                  >
                  > I always charge my cars with the trunk open anyways.
                  >
                  > Stephen Taylor
                  >
                  > --- On Tue, 6/2/09, Ken Olum <kdo@...
                  > <mailto:kdo%40cosmos.phy.tufts.edu>> wrote:
                  >
                  > From: Ken Olum <kdo@...
                  > <mailto:kdo%40cosmos.phy.tufts.edu>>
                  > Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Re:Charger options?
                  > To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com <mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com>
                  > Date: Tuesday, June 2, 2009, 12:43 PM
                  >
                  > Dear Bob,
                  >
                  > Thanks again for the recommendation. I've had a long conversation
                  > with Greg McCrea. This seems like a very good unit at an attractive
                  > price. At Greg's recommendation, I'll wait for you to get yours and
                  > make sure everything works right for you before getting one of my own,
                  > but I'll probably buy from him.
                  >
                  > Incidentally, he told me that it's fine to mount the charger with the
                  > fins sticking up (the position marked "marginal" in the
                  > documentation) . On the other hand, he recommends that we should have
                  > ventilation in our trunks (or open the trunk), so that the charger is
                  > not operating in an enclosed space.
                  >
                  > Ken
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                • Jim Coate
                  Intriguing, but the skeptic in me says too good to be true? Who makes this charger? Is it isolated? Temp sensor/compensation? ... -- Jim Coate *The Electric
                  Message 8 of 14 , Jun 2, 2009
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                    Intriguing, but the skeptic in me says too good to be true?

                    Who makes this charger? Is it isolated? Temp sensor/compensation?

                    Robert D. Strattan wrote:
                    >
                    > ElCon [...] recommended his HF/PFC. I just
                    > closed the order for a 4,000 W unit he had in stock that will work for both
                    > 120 and 240 Vac and is power factor corrected so it can be tuned to work on
                    > a 20 Amp 120 Vac circuit.


                    --
                    Jim Coate
                    *The Electric Tractor Store*
                    http://www.ElectricTractorStore.com

                    = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
                    NOTE: Mail sent to the "NO_REPLY" address will *not* reach me.
                    To send me a private message, please follow the directions here:
                    http://www.coate.org/contact_jim/
                    = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
                  • Paul Schafer
                    I read in a blog that the HF/PFC looks like this charger from Delta-Q   Here is the link   http://www.delta-q.com/products/quiq.shtml Here is the blog: 
                    Message 9 of 14 , Jun 2, 2009
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                      I read in a blog that the HF/PFC looks like this charger from Delta-Q   Here is the link

                        http://www.delta-q.com/products/quiq.shtml

                      Here is the blog:  http://eprotege.blogspot.com/2009/04/choosing-charger.html

                      Paul Schafer

                      --- On Tue, 6/2/09, Jerry Pohorsky <Pohorsky@...> wrote:

                      From: Jerry Pohorsky <Pohorsky@...>
                      Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Re:Charger options?
                      To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                      Date: Tuesday, June 2, 2009, 10:09 PM

















                      Hi Stephen,



                      Yes, the charger really is 4,000 watts.

                      There is also a 1,500 watt unit as you mentioned.

                      Even more surprising is that Greg also has a 5,000 Watt unit.

                      I think there is also a 3,000 watt unit, but I have to check my email

                      from him to confirm that.



                      I got a user guide from him along with a price list dated April 1, 2009

                      (no fooling).



                      The chargers put out about half as much charge current at 120 VAC than

                      they do a 240 VAC as you would expect.

                      I have a photo of the 5,000 watt unit that shows a small fan in the

                      middle of the heat sink.



                      I'll see if I am successful in uploading these documents in the files

                      section.



                      Adios,



                      Jerry Pohorsky



                      Stephen Taylor wrote:

                      >

                      >

                      > Is the charger really 4000 watts? Last fall Greg talked about this

                      > unit, but it was going to be 1500 watts or less whether using 240

                      > volts or 120 volts from what I can remember of my conversation at the

                      > time. If it is 4000 watts I'm assuming it goes at reduced power for

                      > 120 volts, what rate would that be at 120 volts?

                      >

                      > I always charge my cars with the trunk open anyways.

                      >

                      > Stephen Taylor

                      >

                      > --- On Tue, 6/2/09, Ken Olum <kdo@.... tufts.edu

                      > <mailto:kdo% 40cosmos. phy.tufts. edu>> wrote:

                      >

                      > From: Ken Olum <kdo@.... tufts.edu

                      > <mailto:kdo% 40cosmos. phy.tufts. edu>>

                      > Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Re:Charger options?

                      > To: solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:solectria_ ev%40yahoogroups .com>

                      > Date: Tuesday, June 2, 2009, 12:43 PM

                      >

                      > Dear Bob,

                      >

                      > Thanks again for the recommendation. I've had a long conversation

                      > with Greg McCrea. This seems like a very good unit at an attractive

                      > price. At Greg's recommendation, I'll wait for you to get yours and

                      > make sure everything works right for you before getting one of my own,

                      > but I'll probably buy from him.

                      >

                      > Incidentally, he told me that it's fine to mount the charger with the

                      > fins sticking up (the position marked "marginal" in the

                      > documentation) . On the other hand, he recommends that we should have

                      > ventilation in our trunks (or open the trunk), so that the charger is

                      > not operating in an enclosed space.

                      >

                      > Ken

                      >

                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                      >

                      >































                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Jerry Pohorsky
                      Howdy, I was successful in uploading the files to the solectria_ev Yahoo group website and tried to post a message saying so over an hour ago. Somehow, the
                      Message 10 of 14 , Jun 3, 2009
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                        Howdy,

                        I was successful in uploading the files to the solectria_ev Yahoo group
                        website and tried to post a message saying so over an hour ago.
                        Somehow, the message never showed up, so I'll try again.

                        The three files are:

                        1. Instructions for PFC 1500W Charger.doc
                        2. QuotationRetail.doc
                        3. 5kwPFCphoto.jpg

                        You can order the chargers from Greg McCrea in Sacramento, CA.
                        Contact info is at his website: www.zivanusa.com .
                        He does not have any mention of these charges on the website, but look
                        at the QuotationRetail.doc file I uploaded for the price list.
                        These chargers are programmed for your specific battery pack in a
                        similar way to what he does for the Zivan chargers.

                        Adios,

                        Jerry Pohorsky

                        Jerry Pohorsky wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        > Hi Stephen,
                        >
                        > Yes, the charger really is 4,000 watts.
                        > There is also a 1,500 watt unit as you mentioned.
                        > Even more surprising is that Greg also has a 5,000 Watt unit.
                        > I think there is also a 3,000 watt unit, but I have to check my email
                        > from him to confirm that.
                        >
                        > I got a user guide from him along with a price list dated April 1, 2009
                        > (no fooling).
                        >
                        > The chargers put out about half as much charge current at 120 VAC than
                        > they do a 240 VAC as you would expect.
                        > I have a photo of the 5,000 watt unit that shows a small fan in the
                        > middle of the heat sink.
                        >
                        > I'll see if I am successful in uploading these documents in the files
                        > section.
                        >
                        > Adios,
                        >
                        > Jerry Pohorsky
                        >
                        > Stephen Taylor wrote:
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Is the charger really 4000 watts? Last fall Greg talked about this
                        > > unit, but it was going to be 1500 watts or less whether using 240
                        > > volts or 120 volts from what I can remember of my conversation at the
                        > > time. If it is 4000 watts I'm assuming it goes at reduced power for
                        > > 120 volts, what rate would that be at 120 volts?
                        > >
                        > > I always charge my cars with the trunk open anyways.
                        > >
                        > > Stephen Taylor
                        > >
                        > > --- On Tue, 6/2/09, Ken Olum <kdo@...
                        > <mailto:kdo%40cosmos.phy.tufts.edu>
                        > > <mailto:kdo%40cosmos.phy.tufts.edu>> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > From: Ken Olum <kdo@...
                        > <mailto:kdo%40cosmos.phy.tufts.edu>
                        > > <mailto:kdo%40cosmos.phy.tufts.edu>>
                        > > Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Re:Charger options?
                        > > To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                        > <mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com>
                        > <mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com>
                        > > Date: Tuesday, June 2, 2009, 12:43 PM
                        > >
                        > > Dear Bob,
                        > >
                        > > Thanks again for the recommendation. I've had a long conversation
                        > > with Greg McCrea. This seems like a very good unit at an attractive
                        > > price. At Greg's recommendation, I'll wait for you to get yours and
                        > > make sure everything works right for you before getting one of my own,
                        > > but I'll probably buy from him.
                        > >
                        > > Incidentally, he told me that it's fine to mount the charger with the
                        > > fins sticking up (the position marked "marginal" in the
                        > > documentation) . On the other hand, he recommends that we should have
                        > > ventilation in our trunks (or open the trunk), so that the charger is
                        > > not operating in an enclosed space.
                        > >
                        > > Ken
                        > >
                        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > >
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                      • Ken Olum
                        According to Greg McCrea, it is isolated and there is temperature compensation (only one channel, naturally). The current draw on 110VAC can be programmed,
                        Message 11 of 14 , Jun 3, 2009
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                          According to Greg McCrea, it is isolated and there is temperature
                          compensation (only one channel, naturally). The current draw on
                          110VAC can be programmed, but apparently only by him -- not by the
                          end user.

                          Ken
                        • Robert Strattan
                          I just received my HF/PFC 4000 Charger last Friday from Greg & company at ElCon and have done 3 charges with it so far, all with no problems. I haven t worked
                          Message 12 of 14 , Jun 9, 2009
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                            I just received my HF/PFC 4000 Charger last Friday from Greg & company at ElCon and have done 3 charges with it so far, all with no problems. I haven't worked out the final mounting yet, but it looks like I can mount it several different places in the trunk area.

                            It is isolated and has a single channel temperature probe. The power cord had a 30 A 250 V twist lock plug that I couldn't find a receptacle match to any hardware stores over the week-end, but I have changed it to a more common design that will work for both 120 and 240 V sources. My '97 Force is wired with a 120 V plug in the gas flap for the old BC1600 that has failed. I am using that for 120 V charging, then un-plug in the trunk to go to external 240 V source for that charging.

                            There is a + high voltage pig tail at the battery SB50 connector labeled to use for charger interlock, goes to 0 when charging. Haven't figured out how I'm going to use that yet.

                            When charging from 240 V, it starts at 23 Adc to the battery, then tapers down to slightly over an Amp at the finish. When charging from 120 V, it delivers 12 A to the battery while drawing slightly over 20 A ac from the line, but the 20 A circuit breaker has tolerated it so far. I haven't seen it taking the battery above 176 V. The documentation shows an IUIU curve just as a Zivan, but so far it looks like an IU curve to me.

                            I'm well pleased with it. The cost was $1,380 plus shipping.

                            Bob Strattan
                            Tulsa, OK
                            '97 Force

                            --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, Ken Olum <kdo@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > According to Greg McCrea, it is isolated and there is temperature
                            > compensation (only one channel, naturally). The current draw on
                            > 110VAC can be programmed, but apparently only by him -- not by the
                            > end user.
                            >
                            > Ken
                            >
                          • Robert Strattan
                            I uploaded a copy of the ElCon PFC 4000 Charger manual to the Files section. Bob Strattan Tulsa, OK 97 Force
                            Message 13 of 14 , Jun 10, 2009
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                              I uploaded a copy of the ElCon PFC 4000 Charger manual to the Files section.

                              Bob Strattan
                              Tulsa, OK
                              '97 Force
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