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Re: Interlock circuits

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  • Ray Alden
    Problem solved! Many thanks to Wolf, to Bill, and to others who have tried to help. My 98 Solectria, with 38,000 good miles on it, is now as good as new --
    Message 1 of 21 , Apr 6 4:08 PM
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      Problem solved! Many thanks to Wolf, to Bill, and to others who have
      tried to help. My '98 Solectria, with 38,000 good miles on it, is now
      as good as new -- starting on its third set of batteries, on its second
      set of tires, and everything working perfectly!

      Moments like this can be embarrassing, but confession is good for the
      soul, or something like that. The cause of the problem was a loose nut!

      Cables entering the controller pass through fittings that provide a
      measure of protection and strain relief. The small cable that brings in
      12v for control purposes, to run the controller, goes through one of
      these fittings, and just inside the box, the cable connects at a 90
      degree angle to a plug. The nut on the strain relief was evidently not
      tight enough to grip the cable firmly when we moved the controller out
      of the way to replace the battery pack. When we took the back off the
      controller, the plug had been dislodged from its socket enough to
      interrupt battery to the controller. We put the plug back in, tightened
      the nut securely, and all was fixed.

      You all might want to check those strain relief nuts!

      Then all we had to do was reassemble everything we had taken out
      searching for a more sophisticated answer to the problem.

      Peace to all, and thanks again.
      Ray

      --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, Bill or Dorothy Swann
      <dbswann4@...> wrote:
      >
      > Thanks for asking. It is mentioned on page 20 of this link at Kruspan
      <http://www.kruspan.ch/assets/downloads/Manual_AMC_III_Kruspan_V042005.p\
      df>
      >
      > Thanks,Bill S
      > Ph 832-338-3080
      > www.hstech.biz
      > www.promotingevs.com
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ________________________________
      > From: Ray Alden rmalden_2000@...
      > To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Sunday, April 5, 2009 5:46:30 PM
      > Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: Interlock circuits
      >
      >
      > Thanks, Bill: I take it you mean full pack voltage, is that correct?
      > When I made that test -- pins 1 to 14 -- 12v control voltage was
      > applied, but I think that I'd pulled the high-voltage connector. I'd
      > better do that over again!
      > Can you tell me where in the manual you found that "fine print"? I'm
      > just learning my way around in that book.
      > Ray
      >
      > --- In solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com, Bill or Dorothy Swann
      > dbswann4@ .> wrote:
      > >
      > > I read in the fine print in the manual, that the battery voltage
      needs
      > to be applied for a minute before shorting the pins. It worked for me.
      > >
      > > Thanks,Bill S
      > > Ph 832-338-3080
      > > www.hstech.biz
      > > www.promotingevs. com
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > ____________ _________ _________ __
      > > From: Ray Alden rmalden_2000@ ...
      > > To: solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com
      > > Sent: Friday, April 3, 2009 5:37:16 PM
      > > Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: Interlock circuits
      > >
      > >
      > > Wolf: Travel and a broken computer interrupted my repair efforts on
      > my
      > > idle Solectria. I did download the user manual to which you
      referred,
      > > before leaving on a trip. Now I've run the first test that you
      > > suggested -- shorted pins 1 and 14 -- no "thunk" observed.
      > > My plan is to open the case and check that 12v and ground, and pins
      1
      > > and 14, are actually connected to the "drive" -- i.e. check that the
      > > connector is okay on those pins. Beyond that, I don't know what to
      > do.
      > > Have you a suggestion beyond that first test?
      > > Your help is sure appreciated!
      > > Ray
      > >
      > > --- In solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com, "Wolf" wolf@ wrote:
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > All my info came from page 25 in the user manual:
      > > > http://www.wolftron ix.com/amc320/ Manual_AMC_ III.pdf :)
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Wolf
      > > > *wags his tail*
      > > > www.wolftronix. com
      > > >
      > > > > By the way . . .
      > > > > Your recommendations suggest that you have drawings, schematics,
      > or
      > > > > something that we don't have. E.g. You know which terminal in
      the
      > > > > 25-terminal connector is used for what purpose.
      > > > >
      > > > > Is there information here that you might be willing to share?
      > > > >
      > > > > Ray
      > > > >
      > > > > --- In solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com, "Wolf" wolf@ wrote:
      > > > >>
      > > > >>
      > > > >> Yeah, when I say "Drive" I mean the AMC 325 Motor Controller.
      ;)
      > > > >>
      > > > >> http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Servo_drive
      > > > >>
      > > > >> The terminology is different depending on where you work, or
      what
      > > you
      > > > > have
      > > > >> been exposed to...
      > > > >>
      > > > >> In my day job, I make these:
      > > > >> http://www.frasca com/web_pages/ brochures/ S92bro.htm
      > > > >> And we call the motor controllers "drives". :)
      > > > >>
      > > > >> Anyway, intresting bit of information. .. So it was all working
      > fine
      > > > > and
      > > > >> then he replaced the batteries and now it does not work
      > anymore...
      > > > >>
      > > > >> Did it work for a little bit and then die after replacing the
      > > > > batteries?
      > > > >>
      > > > >> Or did it not work at all after replacing them?
      > > > >>
      > > > >> Do you have head lights? Radio? Etc...?
      > > > >>
      > > > >> Also, check to make sure there is not a short between the
      battery
      > > > > stack
      > > > >> positive or negative terminal to chasis ground (vehicle frame).
      > > > >>
      > > > >> If everything else is good, then I would guess that during
      > > disasembly
      > > > > and
      > > > >> removal of the batteries (or installation of the new
      batteries),
      > > and
      > > > >> important wire broke in a connector... I would do a visual
      > > inspection
      > > > > of
      > > > >> all the connectors that where removed and plugged back in.
      > > > >>
      > > > >> Solectria wiring, especially there crimped wires are not that
      > good:
      > > > >> http://www.wolftron ix.com/E10/ images/P5240145. jpg
      > > > >>
      > > > >> Fixed connector:
      > > > >> http://www.wolftron ix.com/E10/ images/P5240147. jpg
      > > > >>
      > > > >> I also recently replaced all the connectors on my truck, cause
      > they
      > > > > where
      > > > >> all rusted and intermittantly working:
      > > > >> http://www.wolftron ix.com/amc320_ connector
      > > > >>
      > > > >> Wolf
      > > > >> *wags his tail*
      > > > >> www.wolftronix. com
      > > > >>
      > > > >> > Thank you, Wolf! Much here for us to check out. We have,
      by
      > > the
      > > > > way,
      > > > >> > checked that stack power is right up there around 165 volts.
      I
      > > > > didn't
      > > > >> > mention this in my initial explanation, but my tech guy
      > replaced
      > > the
      > > > >> > battery stack in kind the day the problem appeared. He has
      > done
      > > > > this
      > > > >> > about 15 times before -- once for me, in 2003. With the old
      > > > > batteries,
      > > > >> > the car ran fine -- just not very far! With the new ones, it
      > > hasn't
      > > > > yet
      > > > >> > moved under its own power. All the work he did has been
      > checked
      > > > > over,
      > > > >> > and over, and over again. Stack power and fuses are good!
      > > > >> >
      > > > >> > Just to be sure I understand the instructions, you use the
      word
      > > > > "drive"
      > > > >> > in several places, and in some of them it isn't clear to me
      > just
      > > > > what
      > > > >> > you mean. Let's see if I can find an example:
      > > > >> >
      > > > >> > "First unplug main power from the drive" Is that the power
      > to
      > > the
      > > > >> > controller? The 240v ac to the whole car? Or one of the
      > > connectors
      > > > >> > visible when I raise the hood?
      > > > >> >
      > > > >> > I expect he will know what 25-pin connector you are speaking
      > > about,
      > > > > and
      > > > >> > I may be able to figure that out myself, in the daylight.
      I'll
      > > try,
      > > > > in
      > > > >> > the morning.
      > > > >> >
      > > > >> > "something is bad inside the drive" -- again, does that mean
      > > inside
      > > > > the
      > > > >> > controller?
      > > > >> >
      > > > >> > Sorry to be so dumb about the terminology. I'm a
      long-retired
      > > > >> > electronics engineer, but I've never worked on power
      equipment
      > or
      > > > > motor
      > > > >> > controllers -- just radios and such. <g>
      > > > >> >
      > > > >> > I sure do appreciate your help!
      > > > >> >
      > > > >> > Ray
      > > > >> >
      > > > >> >
      > > > >> > --- In solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com, "Wolf" wolf@ wrote:
      > > > >> >>
      > > > >> >>
      > > > >> >> Totaly not fair... I did not know there where control boxes
      > out
      > > > >> > there... :P
      > > > >> >>
      > > > >> >> I am building my own AMC control box:
      > > > >> >> http://www.wolftron ix.com/AMC_ Control/
      > > > >> >>
      > > > >> >> Still need to finish wiring it.
      > > > >> >>
      > > > >> >> Also, I put my RS422 to RS232 adapter in the box too. ;)
      > > > >> >>
      > > > >> >> I now have 1 motor and 3 AMC drives to fix, so I am
      investing
      > in
      > > my
      > > > >> > own
      > > > >> >> test equipment, much better then taking parts off my truck
      to
      > > test
      > > > >> >> repaired parts. :)
      > > > >> >>
      > > > >> >>
      > > > >> >> Anyway... To get the drive to come on, you don't need any
      > > external
      > > > >> > power
      > > > >> >> supplies other then the main battery power.
      > > > >> >>
      > > > >> >> First unplug main power from the drive and measure with a
      volt
      > > > > meter
      > > > >> > that
      > > > >> >> you have stack voltage present and your fuse is not blown.
      > > > >> >>
      > > > >> >> If stack power is good, then unplug the 25-pin connector and
      > > short
      > > > > out
      > > > >> > pin
      > > > >> >> 1 to pin 14 (on the controller side), if you hear a "thunk"
      > then
      > > > > the
      > > > >> >> standby and main power supply are working... if you hear
      > > nothing,
      > > > >> > well,
      > > > >> >> then something is bad inside the drive.
      > > > >> >>
      > > > >> >> If you get the "thunk" then connect the 25-pin connector
      back
      > to
      > > > > your
      > > > >> > car,
      > > > >> >> turn on the key switch and see if you hear the same "thunk".
      > > > >> >>
      > > > >> >> If not then its a problem in the ignition box in your car.
      > > > >> >>
      > > > >> >>
      > > > >> >> If you do get the "thunk", then the problem might be in the
      > > > >> > interlocks, or
      > > > >> >> the power setting signal, or the throttle signal...
      > > > >> >>
      > > > >> >> Testing the interlocks:
      > > > >> >>
      > > > >> >> First, turn off the key switch and unplug the 25 pin
      > connector.
      > > > > Then
      > > > >> > using
      > > > >> >> an ohm meter measure the resistance between pins 1 and 11 on
      > the
      > > 25
      > > > >> > pin
      > > > >> >> connector (vehicle side, not the motor controller side).
      > > > >> >>
      > > > >> >> With the battery charger plugged in, it should read around 0
      > > ohms
      > > > >> > (short).
      > > > >> >> With the battery charger un-plugged, it should read around
      > > infinity
      > > > >> > (open).
      > > > >> >>
      > > > >> >> Assuming that it worked, next check the forward / reverse /
      > > neutral
      > > > >> > switch.
      > > > >> >>
      > > > >> >> Measure between pins 1 and 3, it should be an open circuit,
      > when
      > > in
      > > > >> >> neutral or reverse. It should only be shorted when in
      forward.
      > > > >> >>
      > > > >> >> Next measure between pins 1 and 16, it should be an open
      > > circuit,
      > > > > when
      > > > >> > in
      > > > >> >> neutral or forward. It should only be shorted when in
      reverse.
      > > > >> >>
      > > > >> >> Assuming that it worked, next check the throttle signal.
      > > > >> >>
      > > > >> >> Measure between pins 1 and 26, the resistance should be
      around
      > 0
      > > > > ohms
      > > > >> > when
      > > > >> >> the throttle is not pressed, and vary all the way to 10K
      ohms
      > > when
      > > > >> > fully
      > > > >> >> pressed.
      > > > >> >>
      > > > >> >> Assuming that it worked, next check the power setting.
      > > > >> >>
      > > > >> >> Measure between pins 1 and 18, the resistance should be
      around
      > > 1K
      > > > > ohms
      > > > >> > in
      > > > >> >> economy, 5K ohms in normal, and 10K ohms when in
      performance.
      > > (if
      > > > > you
      > > > >> > have
      > > > >> >> a power setting pot, then it will vary from 0 to 10K ohms).
      > > > >> >>
      > > > >> >>
      > > > >> >> Hope this helps. :)
      > > > >> >>
      > > > >> >>
      > > > >> >> Wolf
      > > > >> >> *wags his tail*
      > > > >> >> www.wolftronix. com
      > > > >> >>
      > > > >> >> > My need: There are two safety interlock circuits in the
      > > > > Solectria
      > > > >> > motor
      > > > >> >> > control system that prevent activation: 1) when power is
      > > turned
      > > > > on
      > > > >> > and the
      > > > >> >> > direction control is not in neutral, and, 2) when the
      > battery
      > > > >> > charger is
      > > > >> >> > on â€" i.e. when the car is plugged in. I seek
      > information
      > > > > about
      > > > >> > these
      > > > >> >> > interlocks, one of which appears to be locked "on" in my
      > > > > Solectria.
      > > > >> > At
      > > > >> >> > least that is an explanation for the observed symptoms.
      > > > > Everything
      > > > >> >> > appears normal except that pressing the accelerator does
      > > nothing.
      > > > >> >> >
      > > > >> >> > My technical advisor has an instrument made by Solectria
      to
      > > test
      > > > > the
      > > > >> >> > controller â€" i.e. the large box with "Solectria"
      on
      > the
      > > top
      > > > >> > â€" which when
      > > > >> >> > connected shows nothing at all. His interpretation is
      that
      > > power
      > > > >> > within
      > > > >> >> > the controller has been interrupted, and we assume the
      cause
      > > to
      > > > > be
      > > > >> > an
      > > > >> >> > interlock circuit. We know that 12v is present at the
      > > connector
      > > > >> > leading
      > > > >> >> > to the controller, but that is in a separate cable from
      the
      > > one
      > > > >> > leading
      > > > >> >> > from the "Ignition" box located under the dashboard, just
      > > above
      > > > > the
      > > > >> >> > steering column. He has a block diagram that shows the
      two
      > > > >> > interlock
      > > > >> >> > circuits to be associated with the cable between the
      > ignition
      > > box
      > > > >> > and the
      > > > >> >> > controller, but it gives not a clue as to how they work.
      > > > >> >> >
      > > > >> >> > Has anyone had and solved a similar problem? Does anyone
      > have
      > > > >> > knowledge
      > > > >> >> > of just how those interlocks work? Does anyone have a
      > > suggestion
      > > > > as
      > > > >> > to
      > > > >> >> > how I should proceed?
      > > > >> >> >
      > > > >> >> >
      > > > >> >> >
      > > > >> >>
      > > > >> >
      > > > >> >
      > > > >> >
      > > > >>
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
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