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Interlock circuits

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  • Ray Alden
    My need: There are two safety interlock circuits in the Solectria motor control system that prevent activation: 1) when power is turned on and the direction
    Message 1 of 21 , Mar 9, 2009
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      My need: There are two safety interlock circuits in the Solectria motor control system that prevent activation: 1) when power is turned on and the direction control is not in neutral, and, 2) when the battery charger is on – i.e. when the car is plugged in. I seek information about these interlocks, one of which appears to be locked "on" in my Solectria. At least that is an explanation for the observed symptoms. Everything appears normal except that pressing the accelerator does nothing.

      My technical advisor has an instrument made by Solectria to test the controller – i.e. the large box with "Solectria" on the top – which when connected shows nothing at all. His interpretation is that power within the controller has been interrupted, and we assume the cause to be an interlock circuit. We know that 12v is present at the connector leading to the controller, but that is in a separate cable from the one leading from the "Ignition" box located under the dashboard, just above the steering column. He has a block diagram that shows the two interlock circuits to be associated with the cable between the ignition box and the controller, but it gives not a clue as to how they work.

      Has anyone had and solved a similar problem? Does anyone have knowledge of just how those interlocks work? Does anyone have a suggestion as to how I should proceed?
    • Jim Coate
      ... Welcome! What year Solectria do you have and in turn what controller is in it? From just the symptoms you described, it seems to me that the sky is the
      Message 2 of 21 , Mar 9, 2009
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        Ray Alden wrote:
        > ... interpretation is that power within
        > the controller has been interrupted, and we assume the cause to be an
        > interlock circuit.

        Welcome! What year Solectria do you have and in turn what controller is
        in it?

        From just the symptoms you described, it seems to me that the sky is
        the limit as to what could be wrong... loose wire, bad power supply
        inside the controller, bad diode :-), bad key switch, etc etc. I am
        intrigued by the "instrument made by Solectria to test the controller"
        to which you have access. Knowing nothing about it, I wonder if the
        power supply in the controller has to be working to start up this test box?

        I'm sure others will have more to say, especially if you can find a
        model number on the controller.


        = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
        NOTE: Mail sent to the "NO_REPLY" address will *not* reach me.
        To send me a private message, please follow the directions here:
        http://www.coate.org/contact_jim/
        = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

        --
        Jim Coate, Spencertown, New York
        1997 Solectria Force, 1970's Elec-Traks
        http://www.eeevee.com
        http://www.ElectricTractorStore.com
      • Jim Coate
        PS How exactly does the instrument made by Solectria to test the controller connect to the controller at the same time the controller is connected to the
        Message 3 of 21 , Mar 9, 2009
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          PS How exactly does the "instrument made by Solectria to test
          the controller" connect to the controller at the same time the
          controller is connected to the car??


          = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
          NOTE: Mail sent to the "NO_REPLY" address will *not* reach me.
          To send me a private message, please follow the directions here:
          http://www.coate.org/contact_jim/
          = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

          --
          Jim Coate, Spencertown, New York
          1997 Solectria Force, 1970's Elec-Traks
          http://www.eeevee.com
          http://www.ElectricTractorStore.com
        • Wolf
          Totaly not fair... I did not know there where control boxes out there... :P I am building my own AMC control box: http://www.wolftronix.com/AMC_Control/ Still
          Message 4 of 21 , Mar 9, 2009
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            Totaly not fair... I did not know there where control boxes out there... :P

            I am building my own AMC control box:
            http://www.wolftronix.com/AMC_Control/

            Still need to finish wiring it.

            Also, I put my RS422 to RS232 adapter in the box too. ;)

            I now have 1 motor and 3 AMC drives to fix, so I am investing in my own
            test equipment, much better then taking parts off my truck to test
            repaired parts. :)


            Anyway... To get the drive to come on, you don't need any external power
            supplies other then the main battery power.

            First unplug main power from the drive and measure with a volt meter that
            you have stack voltage present and your fuse is not blown.

            If stack power is good, then unplug the 25-pin connector and short out pin
            1 to pin 14 (on the controller side), if you hear a "thunk" then the
            standby and main power supply are working... if you hear nothing, well,
            then something is bad inside the drive.

            If you get the "thunk" then connect the 25-pin connector back to your car,
            turn on the key switch and see if you hear the same "thunk".

            If not then its a problem in the ignition box in your car.


            If you do get the "thunk", then the problem might be in the interlocks, or
            the power setting signal, or the throttle signal...

            Testing the interlocks:

            First, turn off the key switch and unplug the 25 pin connector. Then using
            an ohm meter measure the resistance between pins 1 and 11 on the 25 pin
            connector (vehicle side, not the motor controller side).

            With the battery charger plugged in, it should read around 0 ohms (short).
            With the battery charger un-plugged, it should read around infinity (open).

            Assuming that it worked, next check the forward / reverse / neutral switch.

            Measure between pins 1 and 3, it should be an open circuit, when in
            neutral or reverse. It should only be shorted when in forward.

            Next measure between pins 1 and 16, it should be an open circuit, when in
            neutral or forward. It should only be shorted when in reverse.

            Assuming that it worked, next check the throttle signal.

            Measure between pins 1 and 26, the resistance should be around 0 ohms when
            the throttle is not pressed, and vary all the way to 10K ohms when fully
            pressed.

            Assuming that it worked, next check the power setting.

            Measure between pins 1 and 18, the resistance should be around 1K ohms in
            economy, 5K ohms in normal, and 10K ohms when in performance. (if you have
            a power setting pot, then it will vary from 0 to 10K ohms).


            Hope this helps. :)


            Wolf
            *wags his tail*
            www.wolftronix.com

            > My need: There are two safety interlock circuits in the Solectria motor
            > control system that prevent activation: 1) when power is turned on and the
            > direction control is not in neutral, and, 2) when the battery charger is
            > on – i.e. when the car is plugged in. I seek information about these
            > interlocks, one of which appears to be locked "on" in my Solectria. At
            > least that is an explanation for the observed symptoms. Everything
            > appears normal except that pressing the accelerator does nothing.
            >
            > My technical advisor has an instrument made by Solectria to test the
            > controller – i.e. the large box with "Solectria" on the top – which when
            > connected shows nothing at all. His interpretation is that power within
            > the controller has been interrupted, and we assume the cause to be an
            > interlock circuit. We know that 12v is present at the connector leading
            > to the controller, but that is in a separate cable from the one leading
            > from the "Ignition" box located under the dashboard, just above the
            > steering column. He has a block diagram that shows the two interlock
            > circuits to be associated with the cable between the ignition box and the
            > controller, but it gives not a clue as to how they work.
            >
            > Has anyone had and solved a similar problem? Does anyone have knowledge
            > of just how those interlocks work? Does anyone have a suggestion as to
            > how I should proceed?
            >
            >
            >
          • Ray Alden
            Thank you, Jim. The Solectria Force is a 1998 model. On the controller is the model number, AC325. Ray ... an ... is ... box?
            Message 5 of 21 , Mar 9, 2009
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              Thank you, Jim. The Solectria Force is a 1998 model. On the controller
              is the model number, AC325.
              Ray
              --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, Jim Coate <jbc_lists_no_reply@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > Ray Alden wrote:
              > > ... interpretation is that power within
              > > the controller has been interrupted, and we assume the cause to be
              an
              > > interlock circuit.
              >
              > Welcome! What year Solectria do you have and in turn what controller
              is
              > in it?
              >
              > From just the symptoms you described, it seems to me that the sky is
              > the limit as to what could be wrong... loose wire, bad power supply
              > inside the controller, bad diode :-), bad key switch, etc etc. I am
              > intrigued by the "instrument made by Solectria to test the controller"
              > to which you have access. Knowing nothing about it, I wonder if the
              > power supply in the controller has to be working to start up this test
              box?
              >
              > I'm sure others will have more to say, especially if you can find a
              > model number on the controller.
              >
              >
              > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
              > NOTE: Mail sent to the "NO_REPLY" address will *not* reach me.
              > To send me a private message, please follow the directions here:
              > http://www.coate.org/contact_jim/
              > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
              >
              > --
              > Jim Coate, Spencertown, New York
              > 1997 Solectria Force, 1970's Elec-Traks
              > http://www.eeevee.com
              > http://www.ElectricTractorStore.com
              >
            • Ray Alden
              This is a bit harder for me to answer, but I ll try. First let me explain that my tech advisor was, back when Solectria was building cars, their tech
              Message 6 of 21 , Mar 9, 2009
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                This is a bit harder for me to answer, but I'll try. First let me
                explain that my tech advisor was, back when Solectria was building cars,
                their tech representative in Northern California doing whatever warranty
                work was required, etc. He kept trying to get more circuit diagrams
                from them, but they wouldn't give them to him -- only block diagrams
                showing interconnections. And of course they would send replacement
                parts for him to connect, when necessary. Anyway, that's why he has the
                tester.

                At the right side of the controller there are some plug/jack
                combinations, one of which he opens (I think) and to which he connects
                the tester, with system power turned on. I wasn't watching closely when
                he did this. But the tester is supposed to light up, and if it had done
                so, there are various buttons and switches and lights that tell him
                something. That's about all I know of it.


                --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, Jim Coate <jbc_lists_no_reply@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > PS How exactly does the "instrument made by Solectria to test
                > the controller" connect to the controller at the same time the
                > controller is connected to the car??
                >
                >
                > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
                > NOTE: Mail sent to the "NO_REPLY" address will *not* reach me.
                > To send me a private message, please follow the directions here:
                > http://www.coate.org/contact_jim/
                > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
                >
                > --
                > Jim Coate, Spencertown, New York
                > 1997 Solectria Force, 1970's Elec-Traks
                > http://www.eeevee.com
                > http://www.ElectricTractorStore.com
                >
              • Ray Alden
                Thank you, Wolf! Much here for us to check out. We have, by the way, checked that stack power is right up there around 165 volts. I didn t mention this in
                Message 7 of 21 , Mar 9, 2009
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                  Thank you, Wolf! Much here for us to check out. We have, by the way,
                  checked that stack power is right up there around 165 volts. I didn't
                  mention this in my initial explanation, but my tech guy replaced the
                  battery stack in kind the day the problem appeared. He has done this
                  about 15 times before -- once for me, in 2003. With the old batteries,
                  the car ran fine -- just not very far! With the new ones, it hasn't yet
                  moved under its own power. All the work he did has been checked over,
                  and over, and over again. Stack power and fuses are good!

                  Just to be sure I understand the instructions, you use the word "drive"
                  in several places, and in some of them it isn't clear to me just what
                  you mean. Let's see if I can find an example:

                  "First unplug main power from the drive" Is that the power to the
                  controller? The 240v ac to the whole car? Or one of the connectors
                  visible when I raise the hood?

                  I expect he will know what 25-pin connector you are speaking about, and
                  I may be able to figure that out myself, in the daylight. I'll try, in
                  the morning.

                  "something is bad inside the drive" -- again, does that mean inside the
                  controller?

                  Sorry to be so dumb about the terminology. I'm a long-retired
                  electronics engineer, but I've never worked on power equipment or motor
                  controllers -- just radios and such. <g>

                  I sure do appreciate your help!

                  Ray


                  --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "Wolf" <wolf@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > Totaly not fair... I did not know there where control boxes out
                  there... :P
                  >
                  > I am building my own AMC control box:
                  > http://www.wolftronix.com/AMC_Control/
                  >
                  > Still need to finish wiring it.
                  >
                  > Also, I put my RS422 to RS232 adapter in the box too. ;)
                  >
                  > I now have 1 motor and 3 AMC drives to fix, so I am investing in my
                  own
                  > test equipment, much better then taking parts off my truck to test
                  > repaired parts. :)
                  >
                  >
                  > Anyway... To get the drive to come on, you don't need any external
                  power
                  > supplies other then the main battery power.
                  >
                  > First unplug main power from the drive and measure with a volt meter
                  that
                  > you have stack voltage present and your fuse is not blown.
                  >
                  > If stack power is good, then unplug the 25-pin connector and short out
                  pin
                  > 1 to pin 14 (on the controller side), if you hear a "thunk" then the
                  > standby and main power supply are working... if you hear nothing,
                  well,
                  > then something is bad inside the drive.
                  >
                  > If you get the "thunk" then connect the 25-pin connector back to your
                  car,
                  > turn on the key switch and see if you hear the same "thunk".
                  >
                  > If not then its a problem in the ignition box in your car.
                  >
                  >
                  > If you do get the "thunk", then the problem might be in the
                  interlocks, or
                  > the power setting signal, or the throttle signal...
                  >
                  > Testing the interlocks:
                  >
                  > First, turn off the key switch and unplug the 25 pin connector. Then
                  using
                  > an ohm meter measure the resistance between pins 1 and 11 on the 25
                  pin
                  > connector (vehicle side, not the motor controller side).
                  >
                  > With the battery charger plugged in, it should read around 0 ohms
                  (short).
                  > With the battery charger un-plugged, it should read around infinity
                  (open).
                  >
                  > Assuming that it worked, next check the forward / reverse / neutral
                  switch.
                  >
                  > Measure between pins 1 and 3, it should be an open circuit, when in
                  > neutral or reverse. It should only be shorted when in forward.
                  >
                  > Next measure between pins 1 and 16, it should be an open circuit, when
                  in
                  > neutral or forward. It should only be shorted when in reverse.
                  >
                  > Assuming that it worked, next check the throttle signal.
                  >
                  > Measure between pins 1 and 26, the resistance should be around 0 ohms
                  when
                  > the throttle is not pressed, and vary all the way to 10K ohms when
                  fully
                  > pressed.
                  >
                  > Assuming that it worked, next check the power setting.
                  >
                  > Measure between pins 1 and 18, the resistance should be around 1K ohms
                  in
                  > economy, 5K ohms in normal, and 10K ohms when in performance. (if you
                  have
                  > a power setting pot, then it will vary from 0 to 10K ohms).
                  >
                  >
                  > Hope this helps. :)
                  >
                  >
                  > Wolf
                  > *wags his tail*
                  > www.wolftronix.com
                  >
                  > > My need: There are two safety interlock circuits in the Solectria
                  motor
                  > > control system that prevent activation: 1) when power is turned on
                  and the
                  > > direction control is not in neutral, and, 2) when the battery
                  charger is
                  > > on – i.e. when the car is plugged in. I seek information about
                  these
                  > > interlocks, one of which appears to be locked "on" in my Solectria.
                  At
                  > > least that is an explanation for the observed symptoms. Everything
                  > > appears normal except that pressing the accelerator does nothing.
                  > >
                  > > My technical advisor has an instrument made by Solectria to test the
                  > > controller – i.e. the large box with "Solectria" on the top
                  – which when
                  > > connected shows nothing at all. His interpretation is that power
                  within
                  > > the controller has been interrupted, and we assume the cause to be
                  an
                  > > interlock circuit. We know that 12v is present at the connector
                  leading
                  > > to the controller, but that is in a separate cable from the one
                  leading
                  > > from the "Ignition" box located under the dashboard, just above the
                  > > steering column. He has a block diagram that shows the two
                  interlock
                  > > circuits to be associated with the cable between the ignition box
                  and the
                  > > controller, but it gives not a clue as to how they work.
                  > >
                  > > Has anyone had and solved a similar problem? Does anyone have
                  knowledge
                  > > of just how those interlocks work? Does anyone have a suggestion as
                  to
                  > > how I should proceed?
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                • Wolf
                  Yeah, when I say Drive I mean the AMC 325 Motor Controller. ;) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Servo_drive The terminology is different depending on where you
                  Message 8 of 21 , Mar 9, 2009
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                    Yeah, when I say "Drive" I mean the AMC 325 Motor Controller. ;)

                    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Servo_drive

                    The terminology is different depending on where you work, or what you have
                    been exposed to...

                    In my day job, I make these:
                    http://www.frasca.com/web_pages/brochures/S92bro.htm
                    And we call the motor controllers "drives". :)

                    Anyway, intresting bit of information... So it was all working fine and
                    then he replaced the batteries and now it does not work anymore...

                    Did it work for a little bit and then die after replacing the batteries?

                    Or did it not work at all after replacing them?

                    Do you have head lights? Radio? Etc...?

                    Also, check to make sure there is not a short between the battery stack
                    positive or negative terminal to chasis ground (vehicle frame).

                    If everything else is good, then I would guess that during disasembly and
                    removal of the batteries (or installation of the new batteries), and
                    important wire broke in a connector... I would do a visual inspection of
                    all the connectors that where removed and plugged back in.

                    Solectria wiring, especially there crimped wires are not that good:
                    http://www.wolftronix.com/E10/images/P5240145.jpg

                    Fixed connector:
                    http://www.wolftronix.com/E10/images/P5240147.jpg

                    I also recently replaced all the connectors on my truck, cause they where
                    all rusted and intermittantly working:
                    http://www.wolftronix.com/amc320_connector

                    Wolf
                    *wags his tail*
                    www.wolftronix.com

                    > Thank you, Wolf! Much here for us to check out. We have, by the way,
                    > checked that stack power is right up there around 165 volts. I didn't
                    > mention this in my initial explanation, but my tech guy replaced the
                    > battery stack in kind the day the problem appeared. He has done this
                    > about 15 times before -- once for me, in 2003. With the old batteries,
                    > the car ran fine -- just not very far! With the new ones, it hasn't yet
                    > moved under its own power. All the work he did has been checked over,
                    > and over, and over again. Stack power and fuses are good!
                    >
                    > Just to be sure I understand the instructions, you use the word "drive"
                    > in several places, and in some of them it isn't clear to me just what
                    > you mean. Let's see if I can find an example:
                    >
                    > "First unplug main power from the drive" Is that the power to the
                    > controller? The 240v ac to the whole car? Or one of the connectors
                    > visible when I raise the hood?
                    >
                    > I expect he will know what 25-pin connector you are speaking about, and
                    > I may be able to figure that out myself, in the daylight. I'll try, in
                    > the morning.
                    >
                    > "something is bad inside the drive" -- again, does that mean inside the
                    > controller?
                    >
                    > Sorry to be so dumb about the terminology. I'm a long-retired
                    > electronics engineer, but I've never worked on power equipment or motor
                    > controllers -- just radios and such. <g>
                    >
                    > I sure do appreciate your help!
                    >
                    > Ray
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "Wolf" <wolf@...> wrote:
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> Totaly not fair... I did not know there where control boxes out
                    > there... :P
                    >>
                    >> I am building my own AMC control box:
                    >> http://www.wolftronix.com/AMC_Control/
                    >>
                    >> Still need to finish wiring it.
                    >>
                    >> Also, I put my RS422 to RS232 adapter in the box too. ;)
                    >>
                    >> I now have 1 motor and 3 AMC drives to fix, so I am investing in my
                    > own
                    >> test equipment, much better then taking parts off my truck to test
                    >> repaired parts. :)
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> Anyway... To get the drive to come on, you don't need any external
                    > power
                    >> supplies other then the main battery power.
                    >>
                    >> First unplug main power from the drive and measure with a volt meter
                    > that
                    >> you have stack voltage present and your fuse is not blown.
                    >>
                    >> If stack power is good, then unplug the 25-pin connector and short out
                    > pin
                    >> 1 to pin 14 (on the controller side), if you hear a "thunk" then the
                    >> standby and main power supply are working... if you hear nothing,
                    > well,
                    >> then something is bad inside the drive.
                    >>
                    >> If you get the "thunk" then connect the 25-pin connector back to your
                    > car,
                    >> turn on the key switch and see if you hear the same "thunk".
                    >>
                    >> If not then its a problem in the ignition box in your car.
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> If you do get the "thunk", then the problem might be in the
                    > interlocks, or
                    >> the power setting signal, or the throttle signal...
                    >>
                    >> Testing the interlocks:
                    >>
                    >> First, turn off the key switch and unplug the 25 pin connector. Then
                    > using
                    >> an ohm meter measure the resistance between pins 1 and 11 on the 25
                    > pin
                    >> connector (vehicle side, not the motor controller side).
                    >>
                    >> With the battery charger plugged in, it should read around 0 ohms
                    > (short).
                    >> With the battery charger un-plugged, it should read around infinity
                    > (open).
                    >>
                    >> Assuming that it worked, next check the forward / reverse / neutral
                    > switch.
                    >>
                    >> Measure between pins 1 and 3, it should be an open circuit, when in
                    >> neutral or reverse. It should only be shorted when in forward.
                    >>
                    >> Next measure between pins 1 and 16, it should be an open circuit, when
                    > in
                    >> neutral or forward. It should only be shorted when in reverse.
                    >>
                    >> Assuming that it worked, next check the throttle signal.
                    >>
                    >> Measure between pins 1 and 26, the resistance should be around 0 ohms
                    > when
                    >> the throttle is not pressed, and vary all the way to 10K ohms when
                    > fully
                    >> pressed.
                    >>
                    >> Assuming that it worked, next check the power setting.
                    >>
                    >> Measure between pins 1 and 18, the resistance should be around 1K ohms
                    > in
                    >> economy, 5K ohms in normal, and 10K ohms when in performance. (if you
                    > have
                    >> a power setting pot, then it will vary from 0 to 10K ohms).
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> Hope this helps. :)
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> Wolf
                    >> *wags his tail*
                    >> www.wolftronix.com
                    >>
                    >> > My need: There are two safety interlock circuits in the Solectria
                    > motor
                    >> > control system that prevent activation: 1) when power is turned on
                    > and the
                    >> > direction control is not in neutral, and, 2) when the battery
                    > charger is
                    >> > on – i.e. when the car is plugged in. I seek information about
                    > these
                    >> > interlocks, one of which appears to be locked "on" in my Solectria.
                    > At
                    >> > least that is an explanation for the observed symptoms. Everything
                    >> > appears normal except that pressing the accelerator does nothing.
                    >> >
                    >> > My technical advisor has an instrument made by Solectria to test the
                    >> > controller – i.e. the large box with "Solectria" on the top
                    > – which when
                    >> > connected shows nothing at all. His interpretation is that power
                    > within
                    >> > the controller has been interrupted, and we assume the cause to be
                    > an
                    >> > interlock circuit. We know that 12v is present at the connector
                    > leading
                    >> > to the controller, but that is in a separate cable from the one
                    > leading
                    >> > from the "Ignition" box located under the dashboard, just above the
                    >> > steering column. He has a block diagram that shows the two
                    > interlock
                    >> > circuits to be associated with the cable between the ignition box
                    > and the
                    >> > controller, but it gives not a clue as to how they work.
                    >> >
                    >> > Has anyone had and solved a similar problem? Does anyone have
                    > knowledge
                    >> > of just how those interlocks work? Does anyone have a suggestion as
                    > to
                    >> > how I should proceed?
                    >> >
                    >> >
                    >> >
                    >>
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • jwolfe@doitnow.com
                    ... Isn t there a charger interlock or charger control box that prevents operation with the charger plugged in? Jim - Glendale, AZ www.evalbum.com/1703 ...
                    Message 9 of 21 , Mar 10, 2009
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                      > "First unplug main power from the drive" Is that the power to the
                      > controller? The 240v ac to the whole car? Or one of the connectors
                      > visible when I raise the hood?
                      >

                      Isn't there a charger interlock or charger control box that prevents
                      operation with the charger plugged in?


                      Jim - Glendale, AZ
                      www.evalbum.com/1703

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                    • Ray Alden
                      Thanks again! There was nothing intermittent; the car worked fine before; it would not drive at all after the new batteries were installed. Headlights, radio,
                      Message 10 of 21 , Mar 10, 2009
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                        Thanks again!
                        There was nothing intermittent; the car worked fine before; it would not
                        drive at all after the new batteries were installed.
                        Headlights, radio, alarm tones and lights, turn signals, etc. all work
                        just fine. That's why I gave this topic its title. All symptoms match
                        the idea that an interlock circuit is preventing motion under power.

                        Your comment about chassis ground interests me. I did not know the
                        stack was isolated from the chassis. My tech guy told me a story once
                        about having his hand on stack positive and hitting the chassis with
                        uncomfortable results. (This wasn't on my car.) I'll look into this
                        right away.

                        It looks like a closer test of all connectors is in order. I believe
                        that he has always treated all connections with anti-oxide of some sort.

                        I'll report back as we proceed.
                        Ray

                        --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "Wolf" <wolf@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        > Yeah, when I say "Drive" I mean the AMC 325 Motor Controller. ;)
                        >
                        > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Servo_drive
                        >
                        > The terminology is different depending on where you work, or what you
                        have
                        > been exposed to...
                        >
                        > In my day job, I make these:
                        > http://www.frasca.com/web_pages/brochures/S92bro.htm
                        > And we call the motor controllers "drives". :)
                        >
                        > Anyway, interesting bit of information... So it was all working fine
                        and
                        > then he replaced the batteries and now it does not work anymore...
                        >
                        > Did it work for a little bit and then die after replacing the
                        batteries?
                        >
                        > Or did it not work at all after replacing them?
                        >
                        > Do you have head lights? Radio? Etc...?
                        >
                        > Also, check to make sure there is not a short between the battery
                        stack
                        > positive or negative terminal to chassis ground (vehicle frame).
                        >
                        > If everything else is good, then I would guess that during disasembly
                        and
                        > removal of the batteries (or installation of the new batteries), and
                        > important wire broke in a connector... I would do a visual inspection
                        of
                        > all the connectors that where removed and plugged back in.
                        >
                        > Solectria wiring, especially there crimped wires are not that good:
                        > http://www.wolftronix.com/E10/images/P5240145.jpg
                        >
                        > Fixed connector:
                        > http://www.wolftronix.com/E10/images/P5240147.jpg
                        >
                        > I also recently replaced all the connectors on my truck, cause they
                        where
                        > all rusted and intermittantly working:
                        > http://www.wolftronix.com/amc320_connector
                        >
                        > Wolf
                        > *wags his tail*
                        > www.wolftronix.com
                        >
                        > > Thank you, Wolf! Much here for us to check out. We have, by the
                        way,
                        > > checked that stack power is right up there around 165 volts. I
                        didn't
                        > > mention this in my initial explanation, but my tech guy replaced the
                        > > battery stack in kind the day the problem appeared. He has done
                        this
                        > > about 15 times before -- once for me, in 2003. With the old
                        batteries,
                        > > the car ran fine -- just not very far! With the new ones, it hasn't
                        yet
                        > > moved under its own power. All the work he did has been checked
                        over,
                        > > and over, and over again. Stack power and fuses are good!
                        > >
                        > > Just to be sure I understand the instructions, you use the word
                        "drive"
                        > > in several places, and in some of them it isn't clear to me just
                        what
                        > > you mean. Let's see if I can find an example:
                        > >
                        > > "First unplug main power from the drive" Is that the power to the
                        > > controller? The 240v ac to the whole car? Or one of the connectors
                        > > visible when I raise the hood?
                        > >
                        > > I expect he will know what 25-pin connector you are speaking about,
                        and
                        > > I may be able to figure that out myself, in the daylight. I'll try,
                        in
                        > > the morning.
                        > >
                        > > "something is bad inside the drive" -- again, does that mean inside
                        the
                        > > controller?
                        > >
                        > > Sorry to be so dumb about the terminology. I'm a long-retired
                        > > electronics engineer, but I've never worked on power equipment or
                        motor
                        > > controllers -- just radios and such. <g>
                        > >
                        > > I sure do appreciate your help!
                        > >
                        > > Ray
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "Wolf" wolf@ wrote:
                        > >>
                        > >>
                        > >> Totaly not fair... I did not know there where control boxes out
                        > > there... :P
                        > >>
                        > >> I am building my own AMC control box:
                        > >> http://www.wolftronix.com/AMC_Control/
                        > >>
                        > >> Still need to finish wiring it.
                        > >>
                        > >> Also, I put my RS422 to RS232 adapter in the box too. ;)
                        > >>
                        > >> I now have 1 motor and 3 AMC drives to fix, so I am investing in my
                        > > own
                        > >> test equipment, much better then taking parts off my truck to test
                        > >> repaired parts. :)
                        > >>
                        > >>
                        > >> Anyway... To get the drive to come on, you don't need any external
                        > > power
                        > >> supplies other then the main battery power.
                        > >>
                        > >> First unplug main power from the drive and measure with a volt
                        meter
                        > > that
                        > >> you have stack voltage present and your fuse is not blown.
                        > >>
                        > >> If stack power is good, then unplug the 25-pin connector and short
                        out
                        > > pin
                        > >> 1 to pin 14 (on the controller side), if you hear a "thunk" then
                        the
                        > >> standby and main power supply are working... if you hear nothing,
                        > > well,
                        > >> then something is bad inside the drive.
                        > >>
                        > >> If you get the "thunk" then connect the 25-pin connector back to
                        your
                        > > car,
                        > >> turn on the key switch and see if you hear the same "thunk".
                        > >>
                        > >> If not then its a problem in the ignition box in your car.
                        > >>
                        > >>
                        > >> If you do get the "thunk", then the problem might be in the
                        > > interlocks, or
                        > >> the power setting signal, or the throttle signal...
                        > >>
                        > >> Testing the interlocks:
                        > >>
                        > >> First, turn off the key switch and unplug the 25 pin connector.
                        Then
                        > > using
                        > >> an ohm meter measure the resistance between pins 1 and 11 on the 25
                        > > pin
                        > >> connector (vehicle side, not the motor controller side).
                        > >>
                        > >> With the battery charger plugged in, it should read around 0 ohms
                        > > (short).
                        > >> With the battery charger un-plugged, it should read around infinity
                        > > (open).
                        > >>
                        > >> Assuming that it worked, next check the forward / reverse / neutral
                        > > switch.
                        > >>
                        > >> Measure between pins 1 and 3, it should be an open circuit, when in
                        > >> neutral or reverse. It should only be shorted when in forward.
                        > >>
                        > >> Next measure between pins 1 and 16, it should be an open circuit,
                        when
                        > > in
                        > >> neutral or forward. It should only be shorted when in reverse.
                        > >>
                        > >> Assuming that it worked, next check the throttle signal.
                        > >>
                        > >> Measure between pins 1 and 26, the resistance should be around 0
                        ohms
                        > > when
                        > >> the throttle is not pressed, and vary all the way to 10K ohms when
                        > > fully
                        > >> pressed.
                        > >>
                        > >> Assuming that it worked, next check the power setting.
                        > >>
                        > >> Measure between pins 1 and 18, the resistance should be around 1K
                        ohms
                        > > in
                        > >> economy, 5K ohms in normal, and 10K ohms when in performance. (if
                        you
                        > > have
                        > >> a power setting pot, then it will vary from 0 to 10K ohms).
                        > >>
                        > >>
                        > >> Hope this helps. :)
                        > >>
                        > >>
                        > >> Wolf
                        > >> *wags his tail*
                        > >> www.wolftronix.com
                        > >>
                        > >> > My need: There are two safety interlock circuits in the
                        Solectria
                        > > motor
                        > >> > control system that prevent activation: 1) when power is turned
                        on
                        > > and the
                        > >> > direction control is not in neutral, and, 2) when the battery
                        > > charger is
                        > >> > on – i.e. when the car is plugged in. I seek information
                        about
                        > > these
                        > >> > interlocks, one of which appears to be locked "on" in my
                        Solectria.
                        > > At
                        > >> > least that is an explanation for the observed symptoms.
                        Everything
                        > >> > appears normal except that pressing the accelerator does nothing.
                        > >> >
                        > >> > My technical advisor has an instrument made by Solectria to test
                        the
                        > >> > controller – i.e. the large box with "Solectria" on the top
                        > > – which when
                        > >> > connected shows nothing at all. His interpretation is that power
                        > > within
                        > >> > the controller has been interrupted, and we assume the cause to
                        be
                        > > an
                        > >> > interlock circuit. We know that 12v is present at the connector
                        > > leading
                        > >> > to the controller, but that is in a separate cable from the one
                        > > leading
                        > >> > from the "Ignition" box located under the dashboard, just above
                        the
                        > >> > steering column. He has a block diagram that shows the two
                        > > interlock
                        > >> > circuits to be associated with the cable between the ignition box
                        > > and the
                        > >> > controller, but it gives not a clue as to how they work.
                        > >> >
                        > >> > Has anyone had and solved a similar problem? Does anyone have
                        > > knowledge
                        > >> > of just how those interlocks work? Does anyone have a suggestion
                        as
                        > > to
                        > >> > how I should proceed?
                        > >> >
                        > >> >
                        > >> >
                        > >>
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        >
                      • Ray Alden
                        Yes indeed there is! There is an Ignition box under the dash board. We have a drawing that shows connections to this box, and one of them is labeled charge
                        Message 11 of 21 , Mar 10, 2009
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                          Yes indeed there is!
                          There is an "Ignition box" under the dash board. We have a drawing that
                          shows connections to this box, and one of them is labeled "charge
                          interlock", or some such language.

                          Yesterday evening we changed out the ignition box and the directional
                          control switch, without any change in the problem.
                          Ray

                          --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "jwolfe@..." <jwolfe@...> wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          > > "First unplug main power from the drive" Is that the power to the
                          > > controller? The 240v ac to the whole car? Or one of the connectors
                          > > visible when I raise the hood?
                          > >
                          >
                          > Isn't there a charger interlock or charger control box that prevents
                          > operation with the charger plugged in?
                          >
                          >
                          > Jim - Glendale, AZ
                          > www.evalbum.com/1703
                          >
                          > --------------------------------------------------------------------
                          > mail2web LIVE – Free email based on Microsoft® Exchange
                          technology -
                          > http://link.mail2web.com/LIVE
                          >
                        • Ray Alden
                          By the way . . . Your recommendations suggest that you have drawings, schematics, or something that we don t have. E.g. You know which terminal in the
                          Message 12 of 21 , Mar 10, 2009
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                            By the way . . .
                            Your recommendations suggest that you have drawings, schematics, or
                            something that we don't have. E.g. You know which terminal in the
                            25-terminal connector is used for what purpose.

                            Is there information here that you might be willing to share?

                            Ray

                            --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "Wolf" <wolf@...> wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            > Yeah, when I say "Drive" I mean the AMC 325 Motor Controller. ;)
                            >
                            > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Servo_drive
                            >
                            > The terminology is different depending on where you work, or what you
                            have
                            > been exposed to...
                            >
                            > In my day job, I make these:
                            > http://www.frasca.com/web_pages/brochures/S92bro.htm
                            > And we call the motor controllers "drives". :)
                            >
                            > Anyway, intresting bit of information... So it was all working fine
                            and
                            > then he replaced the batteries and now it does not work anymore...
                            >
                            > Did it work for a little bit and then die after replacing the
                            batteries?
                            >
                            > Or did it not work at all after replacing them?
                            >
                            > Do you have head lights? Radio? Etc...?
                            >
                            > Also, check to make sure there is not a short between the battery
                            stack
                            > positive or negative terminal to chasis ground (vehicle frame).
                            >
                            > If everything else is good, then I would guess that during disasembly
                            and
                            > removal of the batteries (or installation of the new batteries), and
                            > important wire broke in a connector... I would do a visual inspection
                            of
                            > all the connectors that where removed and plugged back in.
                            >
                            > Solectria wiring, especially there crimped wires are not that good:
                            > http://www.wolftronix.com/E10/images/P5240145.jpg
                            >
                            > Fixed connector:
                            > http://www.wolftronix.com/E10/images/P5240147.jpg
                            >
                            > I also recently replaced all the connectors on my truck, cause they
                            where
                            > all rusted and intermittantly working:
                            > http://www.wolftronix.com/amc320_connector
                            >
                            > Wolf
                            > *wags his tail*
                            > www.wolftronix.com
                            >
                            > > Thank you, Wolf! Much here for us to check out. We have, by the
                            way,
                            > > checked that stack power is right up there around 165 volts. I
                            didn't
                            > > mention this in my initial explanation, but my tech guy replaced the
                            > > battery stack in kind the day the problem appeared. He has done
                            this
                            > > about 15 times before -- once for me, in 2003. With the old
                            batteries,
                            > > the car ran fine -- just not very far! With the new ones, it hasn't
                            yet
                            > > moved under its own power. All the work he did has been checked
                            over,
                            > > and over, and over again. Stack power and fuses are good!
                            > >
                            > > Just to be sure I understand the instructions, you use the word
                            "drive"
                            > > in several places, and in some of them it isn't clear to me just
                            what
                            > > you mean. Let's see if I can find an example:
                            > >
                            > > "First unplug main power from the drive" Is that the power to the
                            > > controller? The 240v ac to the whole car? Or one of the connectors
                            > > visible when I raise the hood?
                            > >
                            > > I expect he will know what 25-pin connector you are speaking about,
                            and
                            > > I may be able to figure that out myself, in the daylight. I'll try,
                            in
                            > > the morning.
                            > >
                            > > "something is bad inside the drive" -- again, does that mean inside
                            the
                            > > controller?
                            > >
                            > > Sorry to be so dumb about the terminology. I'm a long-retired
                            > > electronics engineer, but I've never worked on power equipment or
                            motor
                            > > controllers -- just radios and such. <g>
                            > >
                            > > I sure do appreciate your help!
                            > >
                            > > Ray
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "Wolf" wolf@ wrote:
                            > >>
                            > >>
                            > >> Totaly not fair... I did not know there where control boxes out
                            > > there... :P
                            > >>
                            > >> I am building my own AMC control box:
                            > >> http://www.wolftronix.com/AMC_Control/
                            > >>
                            > >> Still need to finish wiring it.
                            > >>
                            > >> Also, I put my RS422 to RS232 adapter in the box too. ;)
                            > >>
                            > >> I now have 1 motor and 3 AMC drives to fix, so I am investing in my
                            > > own
                            > >> test equipment, much better then taking parts off my truck to test
                            > >> repaired parts. :)
                            > >>
                            > >>
                            > >> Anyway... To get the drive to come on, you don't need any external
                            > > power
                            > >> supplies other then the main battery power.
                            > >>
                            > >> First unplug main power from the drive and measure with a volt
                            meter
                            > > that
                            > >> you have stack voltage present and your fuse is not blown.
                            > >>
                            > >> If stack power is good, then unplug the 25-pin connector and short
                            out
                            > > pin
                            > >> 1 to pin 14 (on the controller side), if you hear a "thunk" then
                            the
                            > >> standby and main power supply are working... if you hear nothing,
                            > > well,
                            > >> then something is bad inside the drive.
                            > >>
                            > >> If you get the "thunk" then connect the 25-pin connector back to
                            your
                            > > car,
                            > >> turn on the key switch and see if you hear the same "thunk".
                            > >>
                            > >> If not then its a problem in the ignition box in your car.
                            > >>
                            > >>
                            > >> If you do get the "thunk", then the problem might be in the
                            > > interlocks, or
                            > >> the power setting signal, or the throttle signal...
                            > >>
                            > >> Testing the interlocks:
                            > >>
                            > >> First, turn off the key switch and unplug the 25 pin connector.
                            Then
                            > > using
                            > >> an ohm meter measure the resistance between pins 1 and 11 on the 25
                            > > pin
                            > >> connector (vehicle side, not the motor controller side).
                            > >>
                            > >> With the battery charger plugged in, it should read around 0 ohms
                            > > (short).
                            > >> With the battery charger un-plugged, it should read around infinity
                            > > (open).
                            > >>
                            > >> Assuming that it worked, next check the forward / reverse / neutral
                            > > switch.
                            > >>
                            > >> Measure between pins 1 and 3, it should be an open circuit, when in
                            > >> neutral or reverse. It should only be shorted when in forward.
                            > >>
                            > >> Next measure between pins 1 and 16, it should be an open circuit,
                            when
                            > > in
                            > >> neutral or forward. It should only be shorted when in reverse.
                            > >>
                            > >> Assuming that it worked, next check the throttle signal.
                            > >>
                            > >> Measure between pins 1 and 26, the resistance should be around 0
                            ohms
                            > > when
                            > >> the throttle is not pressed, and vary all the way to 10K ohms when
                            > > fully
                            > >> pressed.
                            > >>
                            > >> Assuming that it worked, next check the power setting.
                            > >>
                            > >> Measure between pins 1 and 18, the resistance should be around 1K
                            ohms
                            > > in
                            > >> economy, 5K ohms in normal, and 10K ohms when in performance. (if
                            you
                            > > have
                            > >> a power setting pot, then it will vary from 0 to 10K ohms).
                            > >>
                            > >>
                            > >> Hope this helps. :)
                            > >>
                            > >>
                            > >> Wolf
                            > >> *wags his tail*
                            > >> www.wolftronix.com
                            > >>
                            > >> > My need: There are two safety interlock circuits in the
                            Solectria
                            > > motor
                            > >> > control system that prevent activation: 1) when power is turned
                            on
                            > > and the
                            > >> > direction control is not in neutral, and, 2) when the battery
                            > > charger is
                            > >> > on – i.e. when the car is plugged in. I seek information
                            about
                            > > these
                            > >> > interlocks, one of which appears to be locked "on" in my
                            Solectria.
                            > > At
                            > >> > least that is an explanation for the observed symptoms.
                            Everything
                            > >> > appears normal except that pressing the accelerator does nothing.
                            > >> >
                            > >> > My technical advisor has an instrument made by Solectria to test
                            the
                            > >> > controller – i.e. the large box with "Solectria" on the top
                            > > – which when
                            > >> > connected shows nothing at all. His interpretation is that power
                            > > within
                            > >> > the controller has been interrupted, and we assume the cause to
                            be
                            > > an
                            > >> > interlock circuit. We know that 12v is present at the connector
                            > > leading
                            > >> > to the controller, but that is in a separate cable from the one
                            > > leading
                            > >> > from the "Ignition" box located under the dashboard, just above
                            the
                            > >> > steering column. He has a block diagram that shows the two
                            > > interlock
                            > >> > circuits to be associated with the cable between the ignition box
                            > > and the
                            > >> > controller, but it gives not a clue as to how they work.
                            > >> >
                            > >> > Has anyone had and solved a similar problem? Does anyone have
                            > > knowledge
                            > >> > of just how those interlocks work? Does anyone have a suggestion
                            as
                            > > to
                            > >> > how I should proceed?
                            > >> >
                            > >> >
                            > >> >
                            > >>
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            >
                          • Wolf
                            All my info came from page 25 in the user manual: http://www.wolftronix.com/amc320/Manual_AMC_III.pdf :) Wolf *wags his tail* www.wolftronix.com
                            Message 13 of 21 , Mar 10, 2009
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                              All my info came from page 25 in the user manual:
                              http://www.wolftronix.com/amc320/Manual_AMC_III.pdf :)


                              Wolf
                              *wags his tail*
                              www.wolftronix.com

                              > By the way . . .
                              > Your recommendations suggest that you have drawings, schematics, or
                              > something that we don't have. E.g. You know which terminal in the
                              > 25-terminal connector is used for what purpose.
                              >
                              > Is there information here that you might be willing to share?
                              >
                              > Ray
                              >
                              > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "Wolf" <wolf@...> wrote:
                              >>
                              >>
                              >> Yeah, when I say "Drive" I mean the AMC 325 Motor Controller. ;)
                              >>
                              >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Servo_drive
                              >>
                              >> The terminology is different depending on where you work, or what you
                              > have
                              >> been exposed to...
                              >>
                              >> In my day job, I make these:
                              >> http://www.frasca.com/web_pages/brochures/S92bro.htm
                              >> And we call the motor controllers "drives". :)
                              >>
                              >> Anyway, intresting bit of information... So it was all working fine
                              > and
                              >> then he replaced the batteries and now it does not work anymore...
                              >>
                              >> Did it work for a little bit and then die after replacing the
                              > batteries?
                              >>
                              >> Or did it not work at all after replacing them?
                              >>
                              >> Do you have head lights? Radio? Etc...?
                              >>
                              >> Also, check to make sure there is not a short between the battery
                              > stack
                              >> positive or negative terminal to chasis ground (vehicle frame).
                              >>
                              >> If everything else is good, then I would guess that during disasembly
                              > and
                              >> removal of the batteries (or installation of the new batteries), and
                              >> important wire broke in a connector... I would do a visual inspection
                              > of
                              >> all the connectors that where removed and plugged back in.
                              >>
                              >> Solectria wiring, especially there crimped wires are not that good:
                              >> http://www.wolftronix.com/E10/images/P5240145.jpg
                              >>
                              >> Fixed connector:
                              >> http://www.wolftronix.com/E10/images/P5240147.jpg
                              >>
                              >> I also recently replaced all the connectors on my truck, cause they
                              > where
                              >> all rusted and intermittantly working:
                              >> http://www.wolftronix.com/amc320_connector
                              >>
                              >> Wolf
                              >> *wags his tail*
                              >> www.wolftronix.com
                              >>
                              >> > Thank you, Wolf! Much here for us to check out. We have, by the
                              > way,
                              >> > checked that stack power is right up there around 165 volts. I
                              > didn't
                              >> > mention this in my initial explanation, but my tech guy replaced the
                              >> > battery stack in kind the day the problem appeared. He has done
                              > this
                              >> > about 15 times before -- once for me, in 2003. With the old
                              > batteries,
                              >> > the car ran fine -- just not very far! With the new ones, it hasn't
                              > yet
                              >> > moved under its own power. All the work he did has been checked
                              > over,
                              >> > and over, and over again. Stack power and fuses are good!
                              >> >
                              >> > Just to be sure I understand the instructions, you use the word
                              > "drive"
                              >> > in several places, and in some of them it isn't clear to me just
                              > what
                              >> > you mean. Let's see if I can find an example:
                              >> >
                              >> > "First unplug main power from the drive" Is that the power to the
                              >> > controller? The 240v ac to the whole car? Or one of the connectors
                              >> > visible when I raise the hood?
                              >> >
                              >> > I expect he will know what 25-pin connector you are speaking about,
                              > and
                              >> > I may be able to figure that out myself, in the daylight. I'll try,
                              > in
                              >> > the morning.
                              >> >
                              >> > "something is bad inside the drive" -- again, does that mean inside
                              > the
                              >> > controller?
                              >> >
                              >> > Sorry to be so dumb about the terminology. I'm a long-retired
                              >> > electronics engineer, but I've never worked on power equipment or
                              > motor
                              >> > controllers -- just radios and such. <g>
                              >> >
                              >> > I sure do appreciate your help!
                              >> >
                              >> > Ray
                              >> >
                              >> >
                              >> > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "Wolf" wolf@ wrote:
                              >> >>
                              >> >>
                              >> >> Totaly not fair... I did not know there where control boxes out
                              >> > there... :P
                              >> >>
                              >> >> I am building my own AMC control box:
                              >> >> http://www.wolftronix.com/AMC_Control/
                              >> >>
                              >> >> Still need to finish wiring it.
                              >> >>
                              >> >> Also, I put my RS422 to RS232 adapter in the box too. ;)
                              >> >>
                              >> >> I now have 1 motor and 3 AMC drives to fix, so I am investing in my
                              >> > own
                              >> >> test equipment, much better then taking parts off my truck to test
                              >> >> repaired parts. :)
                              >> >>
                              >> >>
                              >> >> Anyway... To get the drive to come on, you don't need any external
                              >> > power
                              >> >> supplies other then the main battery power.
                              >> >>
                              >> >> First unplug main power from the drive and measure with a volt
                              > meter
                              >> > that
                              >> >> you have stack voltage present and your fuse is not blown.
                              >> >>
                              >> >> If stack power is good, then unplug the 25-pin connector and short
                              > out
                              >> > pin
                              >> >> 1 to pin 14 (on the controller side), if you hear a "thunk" then
                              > the
                              >> >> standby and main power supply are working... if you hear nothing,
                              >> > well,
                              >> >> then something is bad inside the drive.
                              >> >>
                              >> >> If you get the "thunk" then connect the 25-pin connector back to
                              > your
                              >> > car,
                              >> >> turn on the key switch and see if you hear the same "thunk".
                              >> >>
                              >> >> If not then its a problem in the ignition box in your car.
                              >> >>
                              >> >>
                              >> >> If you do get the "thunk", then the problem might be in the
                              >> > interlocks, or
                              >> >> the power setting signal, or the throttle signal...
                              >> >>
                              >> >> Testing the interlocks:
                              >> >>
                              >> >> First, turn off the key switch and unplug the 25 pin connector.
                              > Then
                              >> > using
                              >> >> an ohm meter measure the resistance between pins 1 and 11 on the 25
                              >> > pin
                              >> >> connector (vehicle side, not the motor controller side).
                              >> >>
                              >> >> With the battery charger plugged in, it should read around 0 ohms
                              >> > (short).
                              >> >> With the battery charger un-plugged, it should read around infinity
                              >> > (open).
                              >> >>
                              >> >> Assuming that it worked, next check the forward / reverse / neutral
                              >> > switch.
                              >> >>
                              >> >> Measure between pins 1 and 3, it should be an open circuit, when in
                              >> >> neutral or reverse. It should only be shorted when in forward.
                              >> >>
                              >> >> Next measure between pins 1 and 16, it should be an open circuit,
                              > when
                              >> > in
                              >> >> neutral or forward. It should only be shorted when in reverse.
                              >> >>
                              >> >> Assuming that it worked, next check the throttle signal.
                              >> >>
                              >> >> Measure between pins 1 and 26, the resistance should be around 0
                              > ohms
                              >> > when
                              >> >> the throttle is not pressed, and vary all the way to 10K ohms when
                              >> > fully
                              >> >> pressed.
                              >> >>
                              >> >> Assuming that it worked, next check the power setting.
                              >> >>
                              >> >> Measure between pins 1 and 18, the resistance should be around 1K
                              > ohms
                              >> > in
                              >> >> economy, 5K ohms in normal, and 10K ohms when in performance. (if
                              > you
                              >> > have
                              >> >> a power setting pot, then it will vary from 0 to 10K ohms).
                              >> >>
                              >> >>
                              >> >> Hope this helps. :)
                              >> >>
                              >> >>
                              >> >> Wolf
                              >> >> *wags his tail*
                              >> >> www.wolftronix.com
                              >> >>
                              >> >> > My need: There are two safety interlock circuits in the
                              > Solectria
                              >> > motor
                              >> >> > control system that prevent activation: 1) when power is turned
                              > on
                              >> > and the
                              >> >> > direction control is not in neutral, and, 2) when the battery
                              >> > charger is
                              >> >> > on – i.e. when the car is plugged in. I seek information
                              > about
                              >> > these
                              >> >> > interlocks, one of which appears to be locked "on" in my
                              > Solectria.
                              >> > At
                              >> >> > least that is an explanation for the observed symptoms.
                              > Everything
                              >> >> > appears normal except that pressing the accelerator does nothing.
                              >> >> >
                              >> >> > My technical advisor has an instrument made by Solectria to test
                              > the
                              >> >> > controller – i.e. the large box with "Solectria" on the top
                              >> > – which when
                              >> >> > connected shows nothing at all. His interpretation is that power
                              >> > within
                              >> >> > the controller has been interrupted, and we assume the cause to
                              > be
                              >> > an
                              >> >> > interlock circuit. We know that 12v is present at the connector
                              >> > leading
                              >> >> > to the controller, but that is in a separate cable from the one
                              >> > leading
                              >> >> > from the "Ignition" box located under the dashboard, just above
                              > the
                              >> >> > steering column. He has a block diagram that shows the two
                              >> > interlock
                              >> >> > circuits to be associated with the cable between the ignition box
                              >> > and the
                              >> >> > controller, but it gives not a clue as to how they work.
                              >> >> >
                              >> >> > Has anyone had and solved a similar problem? Does anyone have
                              >> > knowledge
                              >> >> > of just how those interlocks work? Does anyone have a suggestion
                              > as
                              >> > to
                              >> >> > how I should proceed?
                              >> >> >
                              >> >> >
                              >> >> >
                              >> >>
                              >> >
                              >> >
                              >> >
                              >>
                              >
                              >
                              >
                            • Jim Coate
                              Perhaps I m missing something, but I don t see any reason to be suspecting the ignition box, charger interlocks, etc at this point. As I understand it (from
                              Message 14 of 21 , Mar 10, 2009
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                                Perhaps I'm missing something, but I don't see any reason to be
                                suspecting the ignition box, charger interlocks, etc at this point.

                                As I understand it (from Wolf's handy pictures) the test box connects
                                directly to the controller and takes the place of all the various
                                selector switches, ignition box, charger interlock and other control
                                signals.

                                If the controller is connected only to the battery pack and to the test
                                box (and maybe the motor if the car is up on jack stands?), and it
                                doesn't work, the doesn't the problem then have to be in the batteries
                                or the controller?

                                Looking at it another way...when replacing the batteries, the only
                                things disturbed are the batteries and the controller, and maybe the air
                                conditioning stuff depending on the particular car. So those are the
                                most likely places to look for a problem.

                                If the batteries are wired properly, and not shorted to the chasis (eek
                                if they are!), then that leaves the controller. Problems with the
                                controller could range from the multi-pin connectors on the side of the
                                case being corroded to electronic failures inside the controller. If and
                                only if the controller works with the test box would I worry with the
                                various switches and interlock circuits in the car.

                                (all of the above assumes the test box works :-)


                                Ray Alden wrote:
                                >
                                > There was nothing intermittent; the car worked fine before; it would not
                                > drive at all after the new batteries were installed.
                                > Headlights, radio, alarm tones and lights, turn signals, etc. all work
                                > just fine. That's why I gave this topic its title. All symptoms match
                                > the idea that an interlock circuit is preventing motion under power.
                                >
                                > I did not know the stack was isolated from the chassis.
                                >
                                > Yesterday evening we changed out the ignition box and the directional
                                > control switch, without any change in the problem.


                                = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
                                NOTE: Mail sent to the "NO_REPLY" address will *not* reach me.
                                To send me a private message, please follow the directions here:
                                http://www.coate.org/contact_jim/
                                = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

                                --
                                Jim Coate, Spencertown, New York
                                1997 Solectria Force, 1970's Elec-Traks
                                http://www.eeevee.com
                                http://www.ElectricTractorStore.com
                              • Ray Alden
                                Thanks, Jim. Seems like I should learn more about that test box than I now know. I ll be back with more. Ray ... test ... air ... (eek ... the ... and ...
                                Message 15 of 21 , Mar 11, 2009
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                                  Thanks, Jim. Seems like I should learn more about that test box than I
                                  now know.
                                  I'll be back with more.
                                  Ray

                                  --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, Jim Coate <jbc_lists_no_reply@...>
                                  wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Perhaps I'm missing something, but I don't see any reason to be
                                  > suspecting the ignition box, charger interlocks, etc at this point.
                                  >
                                  > As I understand it (from Wolf's handy pictures) the test box connects
                                  > directly to the controller and takes the place of all the various
                                  > selector switches, ignition box, charger interlock and other control
                                  > signals.
                                  >
                                  > If the controller is connected only to the battery pack and to the
                                  test
                                  > box (and maybe the motor if the car is up on jack stands?), and it
                                  > doesn't work, the doesn't the problem then have to be in the batteries
                                  > or the controller?
                                  >
                                  > Looking at it another way...when replacing the batteries, the only
                                  > things disturbed are the batteries and the controller, and maybe the
                                  air
                                  > conditioning stuff depending on the particular car. So those are the
                                  > most likely places to look for a problem.
                                  >
                                  > If the batteries are wired properly, and not shorted to the chasis
                                  (eek
                                  > if they are!), then that leaves the controller. Problems with the
                                  > controller could range from the multi-pin connectors on the side of
                                  the
                                  > case being corroded to electronic failures inside the controller. If
                                  and
                                  > only if the controller works with the test box would I worry with the
                                  > various switches and interlock circuits in the car.
                                  >
                                  > (all of the above assumes the test box works :-)
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Ray Alden wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > There was nothing intermittent; the car worked fine before; it would
                                  not
                                  > > drive at all after the new batteries were installed.
                                  > > Headlights, radio, alarm tones and lights, turn signals, etc. all
                                  work
                                  > > just fine. That's why I gave this topic its title. All symptoms
                                  match
                                  > > the idea that an interlock circuit is preventing motion under power.
                                  > >
                                  > > I did not know the stack was isolated from the chassis.
                                  > >
                                  > > Yesterday evening we changed out the ignition box and the
                                  directional
                                  > > control switch, without any change in the problem.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
                                  > NOTE: Mail sent to the "NO_REPLY" address will *not* reach me.
                                  > To send me a private message, please follow the directions here:
                                  > http://www.coate.org/contact_jim/
                                  > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
                                  >
                                  > --
                                  > Jim Coate, Spencertown, New York
                                  > 1997 Solectria Force, 1970's Elec-Traks
                                  > http://www.eeevee.com
                                  > http://www.ElectricTractorStore.com
                                  >
                                • Ray Alden
                                  Wolf: Travel and a broken computer interrupted my repair efforts on my idle Solectria. I did download the user manual to which you referred, before leaving
                                  Message 16 of 21 , Apr 3 4:37 PM
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                                    Wolf: Travel and a broken computer interrupted my repair efforts on my
                                    idle Solectria. I did download the user manual to which you referred,
                                    before leaving on a trip. Now I've run the first test that you
                                    suggested -- shorted pins 1 and 14 -- no "thunk" observed.
                                    My plan is to open the case and check that 12v and ground, and pins 1
                                    and 14, are actually connected to the "drive" -- i.e. check that the
                                    connector is okay on those pins. Beyond that, I don't know what to do.
                                    Have you a suggestion beyond that first test?
                                    Your help is sure appreciated!
                                    Ray


                                    --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "Wolf" <wolf@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > All my info came from page 25 in the user manual:
                                    > http://www.wolftronix.com/amc320/Manual_AMC_III.pdf :)
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Wolf
                                    > *wags his tail*
                                    > www.wolftronix.com
                                    >
                                    > > By the way . . .
                                    > > Your recommendations suggest that you have drawings, schematics, or
                                    > > something that we don't have. E.g. You know which terminal in the
                                    > > 25-terminal connector is used for what purpose.
                                    > >
                                    > > Is there information here that you might be willing to share?
                                    > >
                                    > > Ray
                                    > >
                                    > > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "Wolf" wolf@ wrote:
                                    > >>
                                    > >>
                                    > >> Yeah, when I say "Drive" I mean the AMC 325 Motor Controller. ;)
                                    > >>
                                    > >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Servo_drive
                                    > >>
                                    > >> The terminology is different depending on where you work, or what
                                    you
                                    > > have
                                    > >> been exposed to...
                                    > >>
                                    > >> In my day job, I make these:
                                    > >> http://www.frasca.com/web_pages/brochures/S92bro.htm
                                    > >> And we call the motor controllers "drives". :)
                                    > >>
                                    > >> Anyway, intresting bit of information... So it was all working fine
                                    > > and
                                    > >> then he replaced the batteries and now it does not work anymore...
                                    > >>
                                    > >> Did it work for a little bit and then die after replacing the
                                    > > batteries?
                                    > >>
                                    > >> Or did it not work at all after replacing them?
                                    > >>
                                    > >> Do you have head lights? Radio? Etc...?
                                    > >>
                                    > >> Also, check to make sure there is not a short between the battery
                                    > > stack
                                    > >> positive or negative terminal to chasis ground (vehicle frame).
                                    > >>
                                    > >> If everything else is good, then I would guess that during
                                    disasembly
                                    > > and
                                    > >> removal of the batteries (or installation of the new batteries),
                                    and
                                    > >> important wire broke in a connector... I would do a visual
                                    inspection
                                    > > of
                                    > >> all the connectors that where removed and plugged back in.
                                    > >>
                                    > >> Solectria wiring, especially there crimped wires are not that good:
                                    > >> http://www.wolftronix.com/E10/images/P5240145.jpg
                                    > >>
                                    > >> Fixed connector:
                                    > >> http://www.wolftronix.com/E10/images/P5240147.jpg
                                    > >>
                                    > >> I also recently replaced all the connectors on my truck, cause they
                                    > > where
                                    > >> all rusted and intermittantly working:
                                    > >> http://www.wolftronix.com/amc320_connector
                                    > >>
                                    > >> Wolf
                                    > >> *wags his tail*
                                    > >> www.wolftronix.com
                                    > >>
                                    > >> > Thank you, Wolf! Much here for us to check out. We have, by
                                    the
                                    > > way,
                                    > >> > checked that stack power is right up there around 165 volts. I
                                    > > didn't
                                    > >> > mention this in my initial explanation, but my tech guy replaced
                                    the
                                    > >> > battery stack in kind the day the problem appeared. He has done
                                    > > this
                                    > >> > about 15 times before -- once for me, in 2003. With the old
                                    > > batteries,
                                    > >> > the car ran fine -- just not very far! With the new ones, it
                                    hasn't
                                    > > yet
                                    > >> > moved under its own power. All the work he did has been checked
                                    > > over,
                                    > >> > and over, and over again. Stack power and fuses are good!
                                    > >> >
                                    > >> > Just to be sure I understand the instructions, you use the word
                                    > > "drive"
                                    > >> > in several places, and in some of them it isn't clear to me just
                                    > > what
                                    > >> > you mean. Let's see if I can find an example:
                                    > >> >
                                    > >> > "First unplug main power from the drive" Is that the power to
                                    the
                                    > >> > controller? The 240v ac to the whole car? Or one of the
                                    connectors
                                    > >> > visible when I raise the hood?
                                    > >> >
                                    > >> > I expect he will know what 25-pin connector you are speaking
                                    about,
                                    > > and
                                    > >> > I may be able to figure that out myself, in the daylight. I'll
                                    try,
                                    > > in
                                    > >> > the morning.
                                    > >> >
                                    > >> > "something is bad inside the drive" -- again, does that mean
                                    inside
                                    > > the
                                    > >> > controller?
                                    > >> >
                                    > >> > Sorry to be so dumb about the terminology. I'm a long-retired
                                    > >> > electronics engineer, but I've never worked on power equipment or
                                    > > motor
                                    > >> > controllers -- just radios and such. <g>
                                    > >> >
                                    > >> > I sure do appreciate your help!
                                    > >> >
                                    > >> > Ray
                                    > >> >
                                    > >> >
                                    > >> > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "Wolf" wolf@ wrote:
                                    > >> >>
                                    > >> >>
                                    > >> >> Totaly not fair... I did not know there where control boxes out
                                    > >> > there... :P
                                    > >> >>
                                    > >> >> I am building my own AMC control box:
                                    > >> >> http://www.wolftronix.com/AMC_Control/
                                    > >> >>
                                    > >> >> Still need to finish wiring it.
                                    > >> >>
                                    > >> >> Also, I put my RS422 to RS232 adapter in the box too. ;)
                                    > >> >>
                                    > >> >> I now have 1 motor and 3 AMC drives to fix, so I am investing in
                                    my
                                    > >> > own
                                    > >> >> test equipment, much better then taking parts off my truck to
                                    test
                                    > >> >> repaired parts. :)
                                    > >> >>
                                    > >> >>
                                    > >> >> Anyway... To get the drive to come on, you don't need any
                                    external
                                    > >> > power
                                    > >> >> supplies other then the main battery power.
                                    > >> >>
                                    > >> >> First unplug main power from the drive and measure with a volt
                                    > > meter
                                    > >> > that
                                    > >> >> you have stack voltage present and your fuse is not blown.
                                    > >> >>
                                    > >> >> If stack power is good, then unplug the 25-pin connector and
                                    short
                                    > > out
                                    > >> > pin
                                    > >> >> 1 to pin 14 (on the controller side), if you hear a "thunk" then
                                    > > the
                                    > >> >> standby and main power supply are working... if you hear
                                    nothing,
                                    > >> > well,
                                    > >> >> then something is bad inside the drive.
                                    > >> >>
                                    > >> >> If you get the "thunk" then connect the 25-pin connector back to
                                    > > your
                                    > >> > car,
                                    > >> >> turn on the key switch and see if you hear the same "thunk".
                                    > >> >>
                                    > >> >> If not then its a problem in the ignition box in your car.
                                    > >> >>
                                    > >> >>
                                    > >> >> If you do get the "thunk", then the problem might be in the
                                    > >> > interlocks, or
                                    > >> >> the power setting signal, or the throttle signal...
                                    > >> >>
                                    > >> >> Testing the interlocks:
                                    > >> >>
                                    > >> >> First, turn off the key switch and unplug the 25 pin connector.
                                    > > Then
                                    > >> > using
                                    > >> >> an ohm meter measure the resistance between pins 1 and 11 on the
                                    25
                                    > >> > pin
                                    > >> >> connector (vehicle side, not the motor controller side).
                                    > >> >>
                                    > >> >> With the battery charger plugged in, it should read around 0
                                    ohms
                                    > >> > (short).
                                    > >> >> With the battery charger un-plugged, it should read around
                                    infinity
                                    > >> > (open).
                                    > >> >>
                                    > >> >> Assuming that it worked, next check the forward / reverse /
                                    neutral
                                    > >> > switch.
                                    > >> >>
                                    > >> >> Measure between pins 1 and 3, it should be an open circuit, when
                                    in
                                    > >> >> neutral or reverse. It should only be shorted when in forward.
                                    > >> >>
                                    > >> >> Next measure between pins 1 and 16, it should be an open
                                    circuit,
                                    > > when
                                    > >> > in
                                    > >> >> neutral or forward. It should only be shorted when in reverse.
                                    > >> >>
                                    > >> >> Assuming that it worked, next check the throttle signal.
                                    > >> >>
                                    > >> >> Measure between pins 1 and 26, the resistance should be around 0
                                    > > ohms
                                    > >> > when
                                    > >> >> the throttle is not pressed, and vary all the way to 10K ohms
                                    when
                                    > >> > fully
                                    > >> >> pressed.
                                    > >> >>
                                    > >> >> Assuming that it worked, next check the power setting.
                                    > >> >>
                                    > >> >> Measure between pins 1 and 18, the resistance should be around
                                    1K
                                    > > ohms
                                    > >> > in
                                    > >> >> economy, 5K ohms in normal, and 10K ohms when in performance.
                                    (if
                                    > > you
                                    > >> > have
                                    > >> >> a power setting pot, then it will vary from 0 to 10K ohms).
                                    > >> >>
                                    > >> >>
                                    > >> >> Hope this helps. :)
                                    > >> >>
                                    > >> >>
                                    > >> >> Wolf
                                    > >> >> *wags his tail*
                                    > >> >> www.wolftronix.com
                                    > >> >>
                                    > >> >> > My need: There are two safety interlock circuits in the
                                    > > Solectria
                                    > >> > motor
                                    > >> >> > control system that prevent activation: 1) when power is
                                    turned
                                    > > on
                                    > >> > and the
                                    > >> >> > direction control is not in neutral, and, 2) when the battery
                                    > >> > charger is
                                    > >> >> > on – i.e. when the car is plugged in. I seek information
                                    > > about
                                    > >> > these
                                    > >> >> > interlocks, one of which appears to be locked "on" in my
                                    > > Solectria.
                                    > >> > At
                                    > >> >> > least that is an explanation for the observed symptoms.
                                    > > Everything
                                    > >> >> > appears normal except that pressing the accelerator does
                                    nothing.
                                    > >> >> >
                                    > >> >> > My technical advisor has an instrument made by Solectria to
                                    test
                                    > > the
                                    > >> >> > controller – i.e. the large box with "Solectria" on the
                                    top
                                    > >> > – which when
                                    > >> >> > connected shows nothing at all. His interpretation is that
                                    power
                                    > >> > within
                                    > >> >> > the controller has been interrupted, and we assume the cause
                                    to
                                    > > be
                                    > >> > an
                                    > >> >> > interlock circuit. We know that 12v is present at the
                                    connector
                                    > >> > leading
                                    > >> >> > to the controller, but that is in a separate cable from the
                                    one
                                    > >> > leading
                                    > >> >> > from the "Ignition" box located under the dashboard, just
                                    above
                                    > > the
                                    > >> >> > steering column. He has a block diagram that shows the two
                                    > >> > interlock
                                    > >> >> > circuits to be associated with the cable between the ignition
                                    box
                                    > >> > and the
                                    > >> >> > controller, but it gives not a clue as to how they work.
                                    > >> >> >
                                    > >> >> > Has anyone had and solved a similar problem? Does anyone have
                                    > >> > knowledge
                                    > >> >> > of just how those interlocks work? Does anyone have a
                                    suggestion
                                    > > as
                                    > >> > to
                                    > >> >> > how I should proceed?
                                    > >> >> >
                                    > >> >> >
                                    > >> >> >
                                    > >> >>
                                    > >> >
                                    > >> >
                                    > >> >
                                    > >>
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    >
                                  • Bill or Dorothy Swann
                                    I read in the fine print in the manual, that the battery voltage needs to be applied for a minute before shorting the pins. It worked for me. Thanks,Bill S Ph
                                    Message 17 of 21 , Apr 3 7:02 PM
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                                      I read in the fine print in the manual, that the battery voltage needs to be applied for a minute before shorting the pins. It worked for me.

                                      Thanks,Bill S
                                      Ph 832-338-3080
                                      www.hstech.biz
                                      www.promotingevs.com




                                      ________________________________
                                      From: Ray Alden <rmalden_2000@...>
                                      To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Friday, April 3, 2009 5:37:16 PM
                                      Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: Interlock circuits


                                      Wolf: Travel and a broken computer interrupted my repair efforts on my
                                      idle Solectria. I did download the user manual to which you referred,
                                      before leaving on a trip. Now I've run the first test that you
                                      suggested -- shorted pins 1 and 14 -- no "thunk" observed.
                                      My plan is to open the case and check that 12v and ground, and pins 1
                                      and 14, are actually connected to the "drive" -- i.e. check that the
                                      connector is okay on those pins. Beyond that, I don't know what to do.
                                      Have you a suggestion beyond that first test?
                                      Your help is sure appreciated!
                                      Ray

                                      --- In solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com, "Wolf" <wolf@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > All my info came from page 25 in the user manual:
                                      > http://www.wolftron ix.com/amc320/ Manual_AMC_ III.pdf :)
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Wolf
                                      > *wags his tail*
                                      > www.wolftronix. com
                                      >
                                      > > By the way . . .
                                      > > Your recommendations suggest that you have drawings, schematics, or
                                      > > something that we don't have. E.g. You know which terminal in the
                                      > > 25-terminal connector is used for what purpose.
                                      > >
                                      > > Is there information here that you might be willing to share?
                                      > >
                                      > > Ray
                                      > >
                                      > > --- In solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com, "Wolf" wolf@ wrote:
                                      > >>
                                      > >>
                                      > >> Yeah, when I say "Drive" I mean the AMC 325 Motor Controller. ;)
                                      > >>
                                      > >> http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Servo_drive
                                      > >>
                                      > >> The terminology is different depending on where you work, or what
                                      you
                                      > > have
                                      > >> been exposed to...
                                      > >>
                                      > >> In my day job, I make these:
                                      > >> http://www.frasca com/web_pages/ brochures/ S92bro.htm
                                      > >> And we call the motor controllers "drives". :)
                                      > >>
                                      > >> Anyway, intresting bit of information. .. So it was all working fine
                                      > > and
                                      > >> then he replaced the batteries and now it does not work anymore...
                                      > >>
                                      > >> Did it work for a little bit and then die after replacing the
                                      > > batteries?
                                      > >>
                                      > >> Or did it not work at all after replacing them?
                                      > >>
                                      > >> Do you have head lights? Radio? Etc...?
                                      > >>
                                      > >> Also, check to make sure there is not a short between the battery
                                      > > stack
                                      > >> positive or negative terminal to chasis ground (vehicle frame).
                                      > >>
                                      > >> If everything else is good, then I would guess that during
                                      disasembly
                                      > > and
                                      > >> removal of the batteries (or installation of the new batteries),
                                      and
                                      > >> important wire broke in a connector... I would do a visual
                                      inspection
                                      > > of
                                      > >> all the connectors that where removed and plugged back in.
                                      > >>
                                      > >> Solectria wiring, especially there crimped wires are not that good:
                                      > >> http://www.wolftron ix.com/E10/ images/P5240145. jpg
                                      > >>
                                      > >> Fixed connector:
                                      > >> http://www.wolftron ix.com/E10/ images/P5240147. jpg
                                      > >>
                                      > >> I also recently replaced all the connectors on my truck, cause they
                                      > > where
                                      > >> all rusted and intermittantly working:
                                      > >> http://www.wolftron ix.com/amc320_ connector
                                      > >>
                                      > >> Wolf
                                      > >> *wags his tail*
                                      > >> www.wolftronix. com
                                      > >>
                                      > >> > Thank you, Wolf! Much here for us to check out. We have, by
                                      the
                                      > > way,
                                      > >> > checked that stack power is right up there around 165 volts. I
                                      > > didn't
                                      > >> > mention this in my initial explanation, but my tech guy replaced
                                      the
                                      > >> > battery stack in kind the day the problem appeared. He has done
                                      > > this
                                      > >> > about 15 times before -- once for me, in 2003. With the old
                                      > > batteries,
                                      > >> > the car ran fine -- just not very far! With the new ones, it
                                      hasn't
                                      > > yet
                                      > >> > moved under its own power. All the work he did has been checked
                                      > > over,
                                      > >> > and over, and over again. Stack power and fuses are good!
                                      > >> >
                                      > >> > Just to be sure I understand the instructions, you use the word
                                      > > "drive"
                                      > >> > in several places, and in some of them it isn't clear to me just
                                      > > what
                                      > >> > you mean. Let's see if I can find an example:
                                      > >> >
                                      > >> > "First unplug main power from the drive" Is that the power to
                                      the
                                      > >> > controller? The 240v ac to the whole car? Or one of the
                                      connectors
                                      > >> > visible when I raise the hood?
                                      > >> >
                                      > >> > I expect he will know what 25-pin connector you are speaking
                                      about,
                                      > > and
                                      > >> > I may be able to figure that out myself, in the daylight. I'll
                                      try,
                                      > > in
                                      > >> > the morning.
                                      > >> >
                                      > >> > "something is bad inside the drive" -- again, does that mean
                                      inside
                                      > > the
                                      > >> > controller?
                                      > >> >
                                      > >> > Sorry to be so dumb about the terminology. I'm a long-retired
                                      > >> > electronics engineer, but I've never worked on power equipment or
                                      > > motor
                                      > >> > controllers -- just radios and such. <g>
                                      > >> >
                                      > >> > I sure do appreciate your help!
                                      > >> >
                                      > >> > Ray
                                      > >> >
                                      > >> >
                                      > >> > --- In solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com, "Wolf" wolf@ wrote:
                                      > >> >>
                                      > >> >>
                                      > >> >> Totaly not fair... I did not know there where control boxes out
                                      > >> > there... :P
                                      > >> >>
                                      > >> >> I am building my own AMC control box:
                                      > >> >> http://www.wolftron ix.com/AMC_ Control/
                                      > >> >>
                                      > >> >> Still need to finish wiring it.
                                      > >> >>
                                      > >> >> Also, I put my RS422 to RS232 adapter in the box too. ;)
                                      > >> >>
                                      > >> >> I now have 1 motor and 3 AMC drives to fix, so I am investing in
                                      my
                                      > >> > own
                                      > >> >> test equipment, much better then taking parts off my truck to
                                      test
                                      > >> >> repaired parts. :)
                                      > >> >>
                                      > >> >>
                                      > >> >> Anyway... To get the drive to come on, you don't need any
                                      external
                                      > >> > power
                                      > >> >> supplies other then the main battery power.
                                      > >> >>
                                      > >> >> First unplug main power from the drive and measure with a volt
                                      > > meter
                                      > >> > that
                                      > >> >> you have stack voltage present and your fuse is not blown.
                                      > >> >>
                                      > >> >> If stack power is good, then unplug the 25-pin connector and
                                      short
                                      > > out
                                      > >> > pin
                                      > >> >> 1 to pin 14 (on the controller side), if you hear a "thunk" then
                                      > > the
                                      > >> >> standby and main power supply are working... if you hear
                                      nothing,
                                      > >> > well,
                                      > >> >> then something is bad inside the drive.
                                      > >> >>
                                      > >> >> If you get the "thunk" then connect the 25-pin connector back to
                                      > > your
                                      > >> > car,
                                      > >> >> turn on the key switch and see if you hear the same "thunk".
                                      > >> >>
                                      > >> >> If not then its a problem in the ignition box in your car.
                                      > >> >>
                                      > >> >>
                                      > >> >> If you do get the "thunk", then the problem might be in the
                                      > >> > interlocks, or
                                      > >> >> the power setting signal, or the throttle signal...
                                      > >> >>
                                      > >> >> Testing the interlocks:
                                      > >> >>
                                      > >> >> First, turn off the key switch and unplug the 25 pin connector.
                                      > > Then
                                      > >> > using
                                      > >> >> an ohm meter measure the resistance between pins 1 and 11 on the
                                      25
                                      > >> > pin
                                      > >> >> connector (vehicle side, not the motor controller side).
                                      > >> >>
                                      > >> >> With the battery charger plugged in, it should read around 0
                                      ohms
                                      > >> > (short).
                                      > >> >> With the battery charger un-plugged, it should read around
                                      infinity
                                      > >> > (open).
                                      > >> >>
                                      > >> >> Assuming that it worked, next check the forward / reverse /
                                      neutral
                                      > >> > switch.
                                      > >> >>
                                      > >> >> Measure between pins 1 and 3, it should be an open circuit, when
                                      in
                                      > >> >> neutral or reverse. It should only be shorted when in forward.
                                      > >> >>
                                      > >> >> Next measure between pins 1 and 16, it should be an open
                                      circuit,
                                      > > when
                                      > >> > in
                                      > >> >> neutral or forward. It should only be shorted when in reverse.
                                      > >> >>
                                      > >> >> Assuming that it worked, next check the throttle signal.
                                      > >> >>
                                      > >> >> Measure between pins 1 and 26, the resistance should be around 0
                                      > > ohms
                                      > >> > when
                                      > >> >> the throttle is not pressed, and vary all the way to 10K ohms
                                      when
                                      > >> > fully
                                      > >> >> pressed.
                                      > >> >>
                                      > >> >> Assuming that it worked, next check the power setting.
                                      > >> >>
                                      > >> >> Measure between pins 1 and 18, the resistance should be around
                                      1K
                                      > > ohms
                                      > >> > in
                                      > >> >> economy, 5K ohms in normal, and 10K ohms when in performance.
                                      (if
                                      > > you
                                      > >> > have
                                      > >> >> a power setting pot, then it will vary from 0 to 10K ohms).
                                      > >> >>
                                      > >> >>
                                      > >> >> Hope this helps. :)
                                      > >> >>
                                      > >> >>
                                      > >> >> Wolf
                                      > >> >> *wags his tail*
                                      > >> >> www.wolftronix. com
                                      > >> >>
                                      > >> >> > My need: There are two safety interlock circuits in the
                                      > > Solectria
                                      > >> > motor
                                      > >> >> > control system that prevent activation: 1) when power is
                                      turned
                                      > > on
                                      > >> > and the
                                      > >> >> > direction control is not in neutral, and, 2) when the battery
                                      > >> > charger is
                                      > >> >> > on – i.e. when the car is plugged in. I seek information
                                      > > about
                                      > >> > these
                                      > >> >> > interlocks, one of which appears to be locked "on" in my
                                      > > Solectria.
                                      > >> > At
                                      > >> >> > least that is an explanation for the observed symptoms.
                                      > > Everything
                                      > >> >> > appears normal except that pressing the accelerator does
                                      nothing.
                                      > >> >> >
                                      > >> >> > My technical advisor has an instrument made by Solectria to
                                      test
                                      > > the
                                      > >> >> > controller – i.e. the large box with "Solectria" on the
                                      top
                                      > >> > – which when
                                      > >> >> > connected shows nothing at all. His interpretation is that
                                      power
                                      > >> > within
                                      > >> >> > the controller has been interrupted, and we assume the cause
                                      to
                                      > > be
                                      > >> > an
                                      > >> >> > interlock circuit. We know that 12v is present at the
                                      connector
                                      > >> > leading
                                      > >> >> > to the controller, but that is in a separate cable from the
                                      one
                                      > >> > leading
                                      > >> >> > from the "Ignition" box located under the dashboard, just
                                      above
                                      > > the
                                      > >> >> > steering column. He has a block diagram that shows the two
                                      > >> > interlock
                                      > >> >> > circuits to be associated with the cable between the ignition
                                      box
                                      > >> > and the
                                      > >> >> > controller, but it gives not a clue as to how they work.
                                      > >> >> >
                                      > >> >> > Has anyone had and solved a similar problem? Does anyone have
                                      > >> > knowledge
                                      > >> >> > of just how those interlocks work? Does anyone have a
                                      suggestion
                                      > > as
                                      > >> > to
                                      > >> >> > how I should proceed?
                                      > >> >> >
                                      > >> >> >
                                      > >> >> >
                                      > >> >>
                                      > >> >
                                      > >> >
                                      > >> >
                                      > >>
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      >




                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • Wolf
                                      If after shorting out pins 1 and 14 with no thunk then either the standby supply has failed or the main supply has failed. The next thing I would check is
                                      Message 18 of 21 , Apr 5 3:04 PM
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                                        If after shorting out pins 1 and 14 with no "thunk" then either the
                                        standby supply has failed or the main supply has failed.

                                        The next thing I would check is the fuse:
                                        http://www.wolftronix.com/amc325_1114/images/IMG_6910.jpg
                                        located on the right hand side of the pic, under the lable (caution full
                                        battery stack voltage is present in that section).

                                        The other thing you could easily check is this diode:
                                        http://www.wolftronix.com/amc320/images/IMG_7298.jpg
                                        Middle of the pic

                                        I had one drive where it was the part that was keeping it from turning it
                                        on... But i think that might be a rare problem.

                                        Wolf
                                        *wags his tail*
                                        www.wolftronix.com

                                        > Wolf: Travel and a broken computer interrupted my repair efforts on my
                                        > idle Solectria. I did download the user manual to which you referred,
                                        > before leaving on a trip. Now I've run the first test that you
                                        > suggested -- shorted pins 1 and 14 -- no "thunk" observed.
                                        > My plan is to open the case and check that 12v and ground, and pins 1
                                        > and 14, are actually connected to the "drive" -- i.e. check that the
                                        > connector is okay on those pins. Beyond that, I don't know what to do.
                                        > Have you a suggestion beyond that first test?
                                        > Your help is sure appreciated!
                                        > Ray
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "Wolf" <wolf@...> wrote:
                                        >>
                                        >>
                                        >> All my info came from page 25 in the user manual:
                                        >> http://www.wolftronix.com/amc320/Manual_AMC_III.pdf :)
                                        >>
                                        >>
                                        >> Wolf
                                        >> *wags his tail*
                                        >> www.wolftronix.com
                                        >>
                                        >> > By the way . . .
                                        >> > Your recommendations suggest that you have drawings, schematics, or
                                        >> > something that we don't have. E.g. You know which terminal in the
                                        >> > 25-terminal connector is used for what purpose.
                                        >> >
                                        >> > Is there information here that you might be willing to share?
                                        >> >
                                        >> > Ray
                                        >> >
                                        >> > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "Wolf" wolf@ wrote:
                                        >> >>
                                        >> >>
                                        >> >> Yeah, when I say "Drive" I mean the AMC 325 Motor Controller. ;)
                                        >> >>
                                        >> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Servo_drive
                                        >> >>
                                        >> >> The terminology is different depending on where you work, or what
                                        > you
                                        >> > have
                                        >> >> been exposed to...
                                        >> >>
                                        >> >> In my day job, I make these:
                                        >> >> http://www.frasca.com/web_pages/brochures/S92bro.htm
                                        >> >> And we call the motor controllers "drives". :)
                                        >> >>
                                        >> >> Anyway, intresting bit of information... So it was all working fine
                                        >> > and
                                        >> >> then he replaced the batteries and now it does not work anymore...
                                        >> >>
                                        >> >> Did it work for a little bit and then die after replacing the
                                        >> > batteries?
                                        >> >>
                                        >> >> Or did it not work at all after replacing them?
                                        >> >>
                                        >> >> Do you have head lights? Radio? Etc...?
                                        >> >>
                                        >> >> Also, check to make sure there is not a short between the battery
                                        >> > stack
                                        >> >> positive or negative terminal to chasis ground (vehicle frame).
                                        >> >>
                                        >> >> If everything else is good, then I would guess that during
                                        > disasembly
                                        >> > and
                                        >> >> removal of the batteries (or installation of the new batteries),
                                        > and
                                        >> >> important wire broke in a connector... I would do a visual
                                        > inspection
                                        >> > of
                                        >> >> all the connectors that where removed and plugged back in.
                                        >> >>
                                        >> >> Solectria wiring, especially there crimped wires are not that good:
                                        >> >> http://www.wolftronix.com/E10/images/P5240145.jpg
                                        >> >>
                                        >> >> Fixed connector:
                                        >> >> http://www.wolftronix.com/E10/images/P5240147.jpg
                                        >> >>
                                        >> >> I also recently replaced all the connectors on my truck, cause they
                                        >> > where
                                        >> >> all rusted and intermittantly working:
                                        >> >> http://www.wolftronix.com/amc320_connector
                                        >> >>
                                        >> >> Wolf
                                        >> >> *wags his tail*
                                        >> >> www.wolftronix.com
                                        >> >>
                                        >> >> > Thank you, Wolf! Much here for us to check out. We have, by
                                        > the
                                        >> > way,
                                        >> >> > checked that stack power is right up there around 165 volts. I
                                        >> > didn't
                                        >> >> > mention this in my initial explanation, but my tech guy replaced
                                        > the
                                        >> >> > battery stack in kind the day the problem appeared. He has done
                                        >> > this
                                        >> >> > about 15 times before -- once for me, in 2003. With the old
                                        >> > batteries,
                                        >> >> > the car ran fine -- just not very far! With the new ones, it
                                        > hasn't
                                        >> > yet
                                        >> >> > moved under its own power. All the work he did has been checked
                                        >> > over,
                                        >> >> > and over, and over again. Stack power and fuses are good!
                                        >> >> >
                                        >> >> > Just to be sure I understand the instructions, you use the word
                                        >> > "drive"
                                        >> >> > in several places, and in some of them it isn't clear to me just
                                        >> > what
                                        >> >> > you mean. Let's see if I can find an example:
                                        >> >> >
                                        >> >> > "First unplug main power from the drive" Is that the power to
                                        > the
                                        >> >> > controller? The 240v ac to the whole car? Or one of the
                                        > connectors
                                        >> >> > visible when I raise the hood?
                                        >> >> >
                                        >> >> > I expect he will know what 25-pin connector you are speaking
                                        > about,
                                        >> > and
                                        >> >> > I may be able to figure that out myself, in the daylight. I'll
                                        > try,
                                        >> > in
                                        >> >> > the morning.
                                        >> >> >
                                        >> >> > "something is bad inside the drive" -- again, does that mean
                                        > inside
                                        >> > the
                                        >> >> > controller?
                                        >> >> >
                                        >> >> > Sorry to be so dumb about the terminology. I'm a long-retired
                                        >> >> > electronics engineer, but I've never worked on power equipment or
                                        >> > motor
                                        >> >> > controllers -- just radios and such. <g>
                                        >> >> >
                                        >> >> > I sure do appreciate your help!
                                        >> >> >
                                        >> >> > Ray
                                        >> >> >
                                        >> >> >
                                        >> >> > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "Wolf" wolf@ wrote:
                                        >> >> >>
                                        >> >> >>
                                        >> >> >> Totaly not fair... I did not know there where control boxes out
                                        >> >> > there... :P
                                        >> >> >>
                                        >> >> >> I am building my own AMC control box:
                                        >> >> >> http://www.wolftronix.com/AMC_Control/
                                        >> >> >>
                                        >> >> >> Still need to finish wiring it.
                                        >> >> >>
                                        >> >> >> Also, I put my RS422 to RS232 adapter in the box too. ;)
                                        >> >> >>
                                        >> >> >> I now have 1 motor and 3 AMC drives to fix, so I am investing in
                                        > my
                                        >> >> > own
                                        >> >> >> test equipment, much better then taking parts off my truck to
                                        > test
                                        >> >> >> repaired parts. :)
                                        >> >> >>
                                        >> >> >>
                                        >> >> >> Anyway... To get the drive to come on, you don't need any
                                        > external
                                        >> >> > power
                                        >> >> >> supplies other then the main battery power.
                                        >> >> >>
                                        >> >> >> First unplug main power from the drive and measure with a volt
                                        >> > meter
                                        >> >> > that
                                        >> >> >> you have stack voltage present and your fuse is not blown.
                                        >> >> >>
                                        >> >> >> If stack power is good, then unplug the 25-pin connector and
                                        > short
                                        >> > out
                                        >> >> > pin
                                        >> >> >> 1 to pin 14 (on the controller side), if you hear a "thunk" then
                                        >> > the
                                        >> >> >> standby and main power supply are working... if you hear
                                        > nothing,
                                        >> >> > well,
                                        >> >> >> then something is bad inside the drive.
                                        >> >> >>
                                        >> >> >> If you get the "thunk" then connect the 25-pin connector back to
                                        >> > your
                                        >> >> > car,
                                        >> >> >> turn on the key switch and see if you hear the same "thunk".
                                        >> >> >>
                                        >> >> >> If not then its a problem in the ignition box in your car.
                                        >> >> >>
                                        >> >> >>
                                        >> >> >> If you do get the "thunk", then the problem might be in the
                                        >> >> > interlocks, or
                                        >> >> >> the power setting signal, or the throttle signal...
                                        >> >> >>
                                        >> >> >> Testing the interlocks:
                                        >> >> >>
                                        >> >> >> First, turn off the key switch and unplug the 25 pin connector.
                                        >> > Then
                                        >> >> > using
                                        >> >> >> an ohm meter measure the resistance between pins 1 and 11 on the
                                        > 25
                                        >> >> > pin
                                        >> >> >> connector (vehicle side, not the motor controller side).
                                        >> >> >>
                                        >> >> >> With the battery charger plugged in, it should read around 0
                                        > ohms
                                        >> >> > (short).
                                        >> >> >> With the battery charger un-plugged, it should read around
                                        > infinity
                                        >> >> > (open).
                                        >> >> >>
                                        >> >> >> Assuming that it worked, next check the forward / reverse /
                                        > neutral
                                        >> >> > switch.
                                        >> >> >>
                                        >> >> >> Measure between pins 1 and 3, it should be an open circuit, when
                                        > in
                                        >> >> >> neutral or reverse. It should only be shorted when in forward.
                                        >> >> >>
                                        >> >> >> Next measure between pins 1 and 16, it should be an open
                                        > circuit,
                                        >> > when
                                        >> >> > in
                                        >> >> >> neutral or forward. It should only be shorted when in reverse.
                                        >> >> >>
                                        >> >> >> Assuming that it worked, next check the throttle signal.
                                        >> >> >>
                                        >> >> >> Measure between pins 1 and 26, the resistance should be around 0
                                        >> > ohms
                                        >> >> > when
                                        >> >> >> the throttle is not pressed, and vary all the way to 10K ohms
                                        > when
                                        >> >> > fully
                                        >> >> >> pressed.
                                        >> >> >>
                                        >> >> >> Assuming that it worked, next check the power setting.
                                        >> >> >>
                                        >> >> >> Measure between pins 1 and 18, the resistance should be around
                                        > 1K
                                        >> > ohms
                                        >> >> > in
                                        >> >> >> economy, 5K ohms in normal, and 10K ohms when in performance.
                                        > (if
                                        >> > you
                                        >> >> > have
                                        >> >> >> a power setting pot, then it will vary from 0 to 10K ohms).
                                        >> >> >>
                                        >> >> >>
                                        >> >> >> Hope this helps. :)
                                        >> >> >>
                                        >> >> >>
                                        >> >> >> Wolf
                                        >> >> >> *wags his tail*
                                        >> >> >> www.wolftronix.com
                                        >> >> >>
                                        >> >> >> > My need: There are two safety interlock circuits in the
                                        >> > Solectria
                                        >> >> > motor
                                        >> >> >> > control system that prevent activation: 1) when power is
                                        > turned
                                        >> > on
                                        >> >> > and the
                                        >> >> >> > direction control is not in neutral, and, 2) when the battery
                                        >> >> > charger is
                                        >> >> >> > on – i.e. when the car is plugged in. I seek information
                                        >> > about
                                        >> >> > these
                                        >> >> >> > interlocks, one of which appears to be locked "on" in my
                                        >> > Solectria.
                                        >> >> > At
                                        >> >> >> > least that is an explanation for the observed symptoms.
                                        >> > Everything
                                        >> >> >> > appears normal except that pressing the accelerator does
                                        > nothing.
                                        >> >> >> >
                                        >> >> >> > My technical advisor has an instrument made by Solectria to
                                        > test
                                        >> > the
                                        >> >> >> > controller – i.e. the large box with "Solectria" on the
                                        > top
                                        >> >> > – which when
                                        >> >> >> > connected shows nothing at all. His interpretation is that
                                        > power
                                        >> >> > within
                                        >> >> >> > the controller has been interrupted, and we assume the cause
                                        > to
                                        >> > be
                                        >> >> > an
                                        >> >> >> > interlock circuit. We know that 12v is present at the
                                        > connector
                                        >> >> > leading
                                        >> >> >> > to the controller, but that is in a separate cable from the
                                        > one
                                        >> >> > leading
                                        >> >> >> > from the "Ignition" box located under the dashboard, just
                                        > above
                                        >> > the
                                        >> >> >> > steering column. He has a block diagram that shows the two
                                        >> >> > interlock
                                        >> >> >> > circuits to be associated with the cable between the ignition
                                        > box
                                        >> >> > and the
                                        >> >> >> > controller, but it gives not a clue as to how they work.
                                        >> >> >> >
                                        >> >> >> > Has anyone had and solved a similar problem? Does anyone have
                                        >> >> > knowledge
                                        >> >> >> > of just how those interlocks work? Does anyone have a
                                        > suggestion
                                        >> > as
                                        >> >> > to
                                        >> >> >> > how I should proceed?
                                        >> >> >> >
                                        >> >> >> >
                                        >> >> >> >
                                        >> >> >>
                                        >> >> >
                                        >> >> >
                                        >> >> >
                                        >> >>
                                        >> >
                                        >> >
                                        >> >
                                        >>
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                      • Ray Alden
                                        Thanks, Bill: I take it you mean full pack voltage, is that correct? When I made that test -- pins 1 to 14 -- 12v control voltage was applied, but I think
                                        Message 19 of 21 , Apr 5 3:46 PM
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                                          Thanks, Bill: I take it you mean full pack voltage, is that correct?
                                          When I made that test -- pins 1 to 14 -- 12v control voltage was
                                          applied, but I think that I'd pulled the high-voltage connector. I'd
                                          better do that over again!
                                          Can you tell me where in the manual you found that "fine print"? I'm
                                          just learning my way around in that book.
                                          Ray



                                          --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, Bill or Dorothy Swann
                                          <dbswann4@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > I read in the fine print in the manual, that the battery voltage needs
                                          to be applied for a minute before shorting the pins. It worked for me.
                                          >
                                          > Thanks,Bill S
                                          > Ph 832-338-3080
                                          > www.hstech.biz
                                          > www.promotingevs.com
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > ________________________________
                                          > From: Ray Alden rmalden_2000@...
                                          > To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                                          > Sent: Friday, April 3, 2009 5:37:16 PM
                                          > Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: Interlock circuits
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Wolf: Travel and a broken computer interrupted my repair efforts on
                                          my
                                          > idle Solectria. I did download the user manual to which you referred,
                                          > before leaving on a trip. Now I've run the first test that you
                                          > suggested -- shorted pins 1 and 14 -- no "thunk" observed.
                                          > My plan is to open the case and check that 12v and ground, and pins 1
                                          > and 14, are actually connected to the "drive" -- i.e. check that the
                                          > connector is okay on those pins. Beyond that, I don't know what to
                                          do.
                                          > Have you a suggestion beyond that first test?
                                          > Your help is sure appreciated!
                                          > Ray
                                          >
                                          > --- In solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com, "Wolf" wolf@ wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > All my info came from page 25 in the user manual:
                                          > > http://www.wolftron ix.com/amc320/ Manual_AMC_ III.pdf :)
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > Wolf
                                          > > *wags his tail*
                                          > > www.wolftronix. com
                                          > >
                                          > > > By the way . . .
                                          > > > Your recommendations suggest that you have drawings, schematics,
                                          or
                                          > > > something that we don't have. E.g. You know which terminal in the
                                          > > > 25-terminal connector is used for what purpose.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Is there information here that you might be willing to share?
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Ray
                                          > > >
                                          > > > --- In solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com, "Wolf" wolf@ wrote:
                                          > > >>
                                          > > >>
                                          > > >> Yeah, when I say "Drive" I mean the AMC 325 Motor Controller. ;)
                                          > > >>
                                          > > >> http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Servo_drive
                                          > > >>
                                          > > >> The terminology is different depending on where you work, or what
                                          > you
                                          > > > have
                                          > > >> been exposed to...
                                          > > >>
                                          > > >> In my day job, I make these:
                                          > > >> http://www.frasca com/web_pages/ brochures/ S92bro.htm
                                          > > >> And we call the motor controllers "drives". :)
                                          > > >>
                                          > > >> Anyway, intresting bit of information. .. So it was all working
                                          fine
                                          > > > and
                                          > > >> then he replaced the batteries and now it does not work
                                          anymore...
                                          > > >>
                                          > > >> Did it work for a little bit and then die after replacing the
                                          > > > batteries?
                                          > > >>
                                          > > >> Or did it not work at all after replacing them?
                                          > > >>
                                          > > >> Do you have head lights? Radio? Etc...?
                                          > > >>
                                          > > >> Also, check to make sure there is not a short between the battery
                                          > > > stack
                                          > > >> positive or negative terminal to chasis ground (vehicle frame).
                                          > > >>
                                          > > >> If everything else is good, then I would guess that during
                                          > disasembly
                                          > > > and
                                          > > >> removal of the batteries (or installation of the new batteries),
                                          > and
                                          > > >> important wire broke in a connector... I would do a visual
                                          > inspection
                                          > > > of
                                          > > >> all the connectors that where removed and plugged back in.
                                          > > >>
                                          > > >> Solectria wiring, especially there crimped wires are not that
                                          good:
                                          > > >> http://www.wolftron ix.com/E10/ images/P5240145. jpg
                                          > > >>
                                          > > >> Fixed connector:
                                          > > >> http://www.wolftron ix.com/E10/ images/P5240147. jpg
                                          > > >>
                                          > > >> I also recently replaced all the connectors on my truck, cause
                                          they
                                          > > > where
                                          > > >> all rusted and intermittantly working:
                                          > > >> http://www.wolftron ix.com/amc320_ connector
                                          > > >>
                                          > > >> Wolf
                                          > > >> *wags his tail*
                                          > > >> www.wolftronix. com
                                          > > >>
                                          > > >> > Thank you, Wolf! Much here for us to check out. We have, by
                                          > the
                                          > > > way,
                                          > > >> > checked that stack power is right up there around 165 volts. I
                                          > > > didn't
                                          > > >> > mention this in my initial explanation, but my tech guy
                                          replaced
                                          > the
                                          > > >> > battery stack in kind the day the problem appeared. He has
                                          done
                                          > > > this
                                          > > >> > about 15 times before -- once for me, in 2003. With the old
                                          > > > batteries,
                                          > > >> > the car ran fine -- just not very far! With the new ones, it
                                          > hasn't
                                          > > > yet
                                          > > >> > moved under its own power. All the work he did has been
                                          checked
                                          > > > over,
                                          > > >> > and over, and over again. Stack power and fuses are good!
                                          > > >> >
                                          > > >> > Just to be sure I understand the instructions, you use the word
                                          > > > "drive"
                                          > > >> > in several places, and in some of them it isn't clear to me
                                          just
                                          > > > what
                                          > > >> > you mean. Let's see if I can find an example:
                                          > > >> >
                                          > > >> > "First unplug main power from the drive" Is that the power
                                          to
                                          > the
                                          > > >> > controller? The 240v ac to the whole car? Or one of the
                                          > connectors
                                          > > >> > visible when I raise the hood?
                                          > > >> >
                                          > > >> > I expect he will know what 25-pin connector you are speaking
                                          > about,
                                          > > > and
                                          > > >> > I may be able to figure that out myself, in the daylight. I'll
                                          > try,
                                          > > > in
                                          > > >> > the morning.
                                          > > >> >
                                          > > >> > "something is bad inside the drive" -- again, does that mean
                                          > inside
                                          > > > the
                                          > > >> > controller?
                                          > > >> >
                                          > > >> > Sorry to be so dumb about the terminology. I'm a long-retired
                                          > > >> > electronics engineer, but I've never worked on power equipment
                                          or
                                          > > > motor
                                          > > >> > controllers -- just radios and such. <g>
                                          > > >> >
                                          > > >> > I sure do appreciate your help!
                                          > > >> >
                                          > > >> > Ray
                                          > > >> >
                                          > > >> >
                                          > > >> > --- In solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com, "Wolf" wolf@ wrote:
                                          > > >> >>
                                          > > >> >>
                                          > > >> >> Totaly not fair... I did not know there where control boxes
                                          out
                                          > > >> > there... :P
                                          > > >> >>
                                          > > >> >> I am building my own AMC control box:
                                          > > >> >> http://www.wolftron ix.com/AMC_ Control/
                                          > > >> >>
                                          > > >> >> Still need to finish wiring it.
                                          > > >> >>
                                          > > >> >> Also, I put my RS422 to RS232 adapter in the box too. ;)
                                          > > >> >>
                                          > > >> >> I now have 1 motor and 3 AMC drives to fix, so I am investing
                                          in
                                          > my
                                          > > >> > own
                                          > > >> >> test equipment, much better then taking parts off my truck to
                                          > test
                                          > > >> >> repaired parts. :)
                                          > > >> >>
                                          > > >> >>
                                          > > >> >> Anyway... To get the drive to come on, you don't need any
                                          > external
                                          > > >> > power
                                          > > >> >> supplies other then the main battery power.
                                          > > >> >>
                                          > > >> >> First unplug main power from the drive and measure with a volt
                                          > > > meter
                                          > > >> > that
                                          > > >> >> you have stack voltage present and your fuse is not blown.
                                          > > >> >>
                                          > > >> >> If stack power is good, then unplug the 25-pin connector and
                                          > short
                                          > > > out
                                          > > >> > pin
                                          > > >> >> 1 to pin 14 (on the controller side), if you hear a "thunk"
                                          then
                                          > > > the
                                          > > >> >> standby and main power supply are working... if you hear
                                          > nothing,
                                          > > >> > well,
                                          > > >> >> then something is bad inside the drive.
                                          > > >> >>
                                          > > >> >> If you get the "thunk" then connect the 25-pin connector back
                                          to
                                          > > > your
                                          > > >> > car,
                                          > > >> >> turn on the key switch and see if you hear the same "thunk".
                                          > > >> >>
                                          > > >> >> If not then its a problem in the ignition box in your car.
                                          > > >> >>
                                          > > >> >>
                                          > > >> >> If you do get the "thunk", then the problem might be in the
                                          > > >> > interlocks, or
                                          > > >> >> the power setting signal, or the throttle signal...
                                          > > >> >>
                                          > > >> >> Testing the interlocks:
                                          > > >> >>
                                          > > >> >> First, turn off the key switch and unplug the 25 pin
                                          connector.
                                          > > > Then
                                          > > >> > using
                                          > > >> >> an ohm meter measure the resistance between pins 1 and 11 on
                                          the
                                          > 25
                                          > > >> > pin
                                          > > >> >> connector (vehicle side, not the motor controller side).
                                          > > >> >>
                                          > > >> >> With the battery charger plugged in, it should read around 0
                                          > ohms
                                          > > >> > (short).
                                          > > >> >> With the battery charger un-plugged, it should read around
                                          > infinity
                                          > > >> > (open).
                                          > > >> >>
                                          > > >> >> Assuming that it worked, next check the forward / reverse /
                                          > neutral
                                          > > >> > switch.
                                          > > >> >>
                                          > > >> >> Measure between pins 1 and 3, it should be an open circuit,
                                          when
                                          > in
                                          > > >> >> neutral or reverse. It should only be shorted when in forward.
                                          > > >> >>
                                          > > >> >> Next measure between pins 1 and 16, it should be an open
                                          > circuit,
                                          > > > when
                                          > > >> > in
                                          > > >> >> neutral or forward. It should only be shorted when in reverse.
                                          > > >> >>
                                          > > >> >> Assuming that it worked, next check the throttle signal.
                                          > > >> >>
                                          > > >> >> Measure between pins 1 and 26, the resistance should be around
                                          0
                                          > > > ohms
                                          > > >> > when
                                          > > >> >> the throttle is not pressed, and vary all the way to 10K ohms
                                          > when
                                          > > >> > fully
                                          > > >> >> pressed.
                                          > > >> >>
                                          > > >> >> Assuming that it worked, next check the power setting.
                                          > > >> >>
                                          > > >> >> Measure between pins 1 and 18, the resistance should be around
                                          > 1K
                                          > > > ohms
                                          > > >> > in
                                          > > >> >> economy, 5K ohms in normal, and 10K ohms when in performance.
                                          > (if
                                          > > > you
                                          > > >> > have
                                          > > >> >> a power setting pot, then it will vary from 0 to 10K ohms).
                                          > > >> >>
                                          > > >> >>
                                          > > >> >> Hope this helps. :)
                                          > > >> >>
                                          > > >> >>
                                          > > >> >> Wolf
                                          > > >> >> *wags his tail*
                                          > > >> >> www.wolftronix. com
                                          > > >> >>
                                          > > >> >> > My need: There are two safety interlock circuits in the
                                          > > > Solectria
                                          > > >> > motor
                                          > > >> >> > control system that prevent activation: 1) when power is
                                          > turned
                                          > > > on
                                          > > >> > and the
                                          > > >> >> > direction control is not in neutral, and, 2) when the
                                          battery
                                          > > >> > charger is
                                          > > >> >> > on â€" i.e. when the car is plugged in. I seek
                                          information
                                          > > > about
                                          > > >> > these
                                          > > >> >> > interlocks, one of which appears to be locked "on" in my
                                          > > > Solectria.
                                          > > >> > At
                                          > > >> >> > least that is an explanation for the observed symptoms.
                                          > > > Everything
                                          > > >> >> > appears normal except that pressing the accelerator does
                                          > nothing.
                                          > > >> >> >
                                          > > >> >> > My technical advisor has an instrument made by Solectria to
                                          > test
                                          > > > the
                                          > > >> >> > controller â€" i.e. the large box with "Solectria" on
                                          the
                                          > top
                                          > > >> > â€" which when
                                          > > >> >> > connected shows nothing at all. His interpretation is that
                                          > power
                                          > > >> > within
                                          > > >> >> > the controller has been interrupted, and we assume the cause
                                          > to
                                          > > > be
                                          > > >> > an
                                          > > >> >> > interlock circuit. We know that 12v is present at the
                                          > connector
                                          > > >> > leading
                                          > > >> >> > to the controller, but that is in a separate cable from the
                                          > one
                                          > > >> > leading
                                          > > >> >> > from the "Ignition" box located under the dashboard, just
                                          > above
                                          > > > the
                                          > > >> >> > steering column. He has a block diagram that shows the two
                                          > > >> > interlock
                                          > > >> >> > circuits to be associated with the cable between the
                                          ignition
                                          > box
                                          > > >> > and the
                                          > > >> >> > controller, but it gives not a clue as to how they work.
                                          > > >> >> >
                                          > > >> >> > Has anyone had and solved a similar problem? Does anyone
                                          have
                                          > > >> > knowledge
                                          > > >> >> > of just how those interlocks work? Does anyone have a
                                          > suggestion
                                          > > > as
                                          > > >> > to
                                          > > >> >> > how I should proceed?
                                          > > >> >> >
                                          > > >> >> >
                                          > > >> >> >
                                          > > >> >>
                                          > > >> >
                                          > > >> >
                                          > > >> >
                                          > > >>
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          >
                                        • Bill or Dorothy Swann
                                          Thanks for asking. It is mentioned on page 20 of this link at Kruspan Thanks,Bill S
                                          Message 20 of 21 , Apr 5 5:24 PM
                                          View Source
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            Thanks for asking. It is mentioned on page 20 of this link at Kruspan <http://www.kruspan.ch/assets/downloads/Manual_AMC_III_Kruspan_V042005.pdf>

                                            Thanks,Bill S
                                            Ph 832-338-3080
                                            www.hstech.biz
                                            www.promotingevs.com




                                            ________________________________
                                            From: Ray Alden <rmalden_2000@...>
                                            To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                                            Sent: Sunday, April 5, 2009 5:46:30 PM
                                            Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: Interlock circuits


                                            Thanks, Bill: I take it you mean full pack voltage, is that correct?
                                            When I made that test -- pins 1 to 14 -- 12v control voltage was
                                            applied, but I think that I'd pulled the high-voltage connector. I'd
                                            better do that over again!
                                            Can you tell me where in the manual you found that "fine print"? I'm
                                            just learning my way around in that book.
                                            Ray

                                            --- In solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com, Bill or Dorothy Swann
                                            <dbswann4@.. .> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > I read in the fine print in the manual, that the battery voltage needs
                                            to be applied for a minute before shorting the pins. It worked for me.
                                            >
                                            > Thanks,Bill S
                                            > Ph 832-338-3080
                                            > www.hstech.biz
                                            > www.promotingevs. com
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > ____________ _________ _________ __
                                            > From: Ray Alden rmalden_2000@ ...
                                            > To: solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com
                                            > Sent: Friday, April 3, 2009 5:37:16 PM
                                            > Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: Interlock circuits
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > Wolf: Travel and a broken computer interrupted my repair efforts on
                                            my
                                            > idle Solectria. I did download the user manual to which you referred,
                                            > before leaving on a trip. Now I've run the first test that you
                                            > suggested -- shorted pins 1 and 14 -- no "thunk" observed.
                                            > My plan is to open the case and check that 12v and ground, and pins 1
                                            > and 14, are actually connected to the "drive" -- i.e. check that the
                                            > connector is okay on those pins. Beyond that, I don't know what to
                                            do.
                                            > Have you a suggestion beyond that first test?
                                            > Your help is sure appreciated!
                                            > Ray
                                            >
                                            > --- In solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com, "Wolf" wolf@ wrote:
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > All my info came from page 25 in the user manual:
                                            > > http://www.wolftron ix.com/amc320/ Manual_AMC_ III.pdf :)
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > Wolf
                                            > > *wags his tail*
                                            > > www.wolftronix. com
                                            > >
                                            > > > By the way . . .
                                            > > > Your recommendations suggest that you have drawings, schematics,
                                            or
                                            > > > something that we don't have. E.g. You know which terminal in the
                                            > > > 25-terminal connector is used for what purpose.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Is there information here that you might be willing to share?
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Ray
                                            > > >
                                            > > > --- In solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com, "Wolf" wolf@ wrote:
                                            > > >>
                                            > > >>
                                            > > >> Yeah, when I say "Drive" I mean the AMC 325 Motor Controller. ;)
                                            > > >>
                                            > > >> http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Servo_drive
                                            > > >>
                                            > > >> The terminology is different depending on where you work, or what
                                            > you
                                            > > > have
                                            > > >> been exposed to...
                                            > > >>
                                            > > >> In my day job, I make these:
                                            > > >> http://www.frasca com/web_pages/ brochures/ S92bro.htm
                                            > > >> And we call the motor controllers "drives". :)
                                            > > >>
                                            > > >> Anyway, intresting bit of information. .. So it was all working
                                            fine
                                            > > > and
                                            > > >> then he replaced the batteries and now it does not work
                                            anymore...
                                            > > >>
                                            > > >> Did it work for a little bit and then die after replacing the
                                            > > > batteries?
                                            > > >>
                                            > > >> Or did it not work at all after replacing them?
                                            > > >>
                                            > > >> Do you have head lights? Radio? Etc...?
                                            > > >>
                                            > > >> Also, check to make sure there is not a short between the battery
                                            > > > stack
                                            > > >> positive or negative terminal to chasis ground (vehicle frame).
                                            > > >>
                                            > > >> If everything else is good, then I would guess that during
                                            > disasembly
                                            > > > and
                                            > > >> removal of the batteries (or installation of the new batteries),
                                            > and
                                            > > >> important wire broke in a connector... I would do a visual
                                            > inspection
                                            > > > of
                                            > > >> all the connectors that where removed and plugged back in.
                                            > > >>
                                            > > >> Solectria wiring, especially there crimped wires are not that
                                            good:
                                            > > >> http://www.wolftron ix.com/E10/ images/P5240145. jpg
                                            > > >>
                                            > > >> Fixed connector:
                                            > > >> http://www.wolftron ix.com/E10/ images/P5240147. jpg
                                            > > >>
                                            > > >> I also recently replaced all the connectors on my truck, cause
                                            they
                                            > > > where
                                            > > >> all rusted and intermittantly working:
                                            > > >> http://www.wolftron ix.com/amc320_ connector
                                            > > >>
                                            > > >> Wolf
                                            > > >> *wags his tail*
                                            > > >> www.wolftronix. com
                                            > > >>
                                            > > >> > Thank you, Wolf! Much here for us to check out. We have, by
                                            > the
                                            > > > way,
                                            > > >> > checked that stack power is right up there around 165 volts. I
                                            > > > didn't
                                            > > >> > mention this in my initial explanation, but my tech guy
                                            replaced
                                            > the
                                            > > >> > battery stack in kind the day the problem appeared. He has
                                            done
                                            > > > this
                                            > > >> > about 15 times before -- once for me, in 2003. With the old
                                            > > > batteries,
                                            > > >> > the car ran fine -- just not very far! With the new ones, it
                                            > hasn't
                                            > > > yet
                                            > > >> > moved under its own power. All the work he did has been
                                            checked
                                            > > > over,
                                            > > >> > and over, and over again. Stack power and fuses are good!
                                            > > >> >
                                            > > >> > Just to be sure I understand the instructions, you use the word
                                            > > > "drive"
                                            > > >> > in several places, and in some of them it isn't clear to me
                                            just
                                            > > > what
                                            > > >> > you mean. Let's see if I can find an example:
                                            > > >> >
                                            > > >> > "First unplug main power from the drive" Is that the power
                                            to
                                            > the
                                            > > >> > controller? The 240v ac to the whole car? Or one of the
                                            > connectors
                                            > > >> > visible when I raise the hood?
                                            > > >> >
                                            > > >> > I expect he will know what 25-pin connector you are speaking
                                            > about,
                                            > > > and
                                            > > >> > I may be able to figure that out myself, in the daylight. I'll
                                            > try,
                                            > > > in
                                            > > >> > the morning.
                                            > > >> >
                                            > > >> > "something is bad inside the drive" -- again, does that mean
                                            > inside
                                            > > > the
                                            > > >> > controller?
                                            > > >> >
                                            > > >> > Sorry to be so dumb about the terminology. I'm a long-retired
                                            > > >> > electronics engineer, but I've never worked on power equipment
                                            or
                                            > > > motor
                                            > > >> > controllers -- just radios and such. <g>
                                            > > >> >
                                            > > >> > I sure do appreciate your help!
                                            > > >> >
                                            > > >> > Ray
                                            > > >> >
                                            > > >> >
                                            > > >> > --- In solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com, "Wolf" wolf@ wrote:
                                            > > >> >>
                                            > > >> >>
                                            > > >> >> Totaly not fair... I did not know there where control boxes
                                            out
                                            > > >> > there... :P
                                            > > >> >>
                                            > > >> >> I am building my own AMC control box:
                                            > > >> >> http://www.wolftron ix.com/AMC_ Control/
                                            > > >> >>
                                            > > >> >> Still need to finish wiring it.
                                            > > >> >>
                                            > > >> >> Also, I put my RS422 to RS232 adapter in the box too. ;)
                                            > > >> >>
                                            > > >> >> I now have 1 motor and 3 AMC drives to fix, so I am investing
                                            in
                                            > my
                                            > > >> > own
                                            > > >> >> test equipment, much better then taking parts off my truck to
                                            > test
                                            > > >> >> repaired parts. :)
                                            > > >> >>
                                            > > >> >>
                                            > > >> >> Anyway... To get the drive to come on, you don't need any
                                            > external
                                            > > >> > power
                                            > > >> >> supplies other then the main battery power.
                                            > > >> >>
                                            > > >> >> First unplug main power from the drive and measure with a volt
                                            > > > meter
                                            > > >> > that
                                            > > >> >> you have stack voltage present and your fuse is not blown.
                                            > > >> >>
                                            > > >> >> If stack power is good, then unplug the 25-pin connector and
                                            > short
                                            > > > out
                                            > > >> > pin
                                            > > >> >> 1 to pin 14 (on the controller side), if you hear a "thunk"
                                            then
                                            > > > the
                                            > > >> >> standby and main power supply are working... if you hear
                                            > nothing,
                                            > > >> > well,
                                            > > >> >> then something is bad inside the drive.
                                            > > >> >>
                                            > > >> >> If you get the "thunk" then connect the 25-pin connector back
                                            to
                                            > > > your
                                            > > >> > car,
                                            > > >> >> turn on the key switch and see if you hear the same "thunk".
                                            > > >> >>
                                            > > >> >> If not then its a problem in the ignition box in your car.
                                            > > >> >>
                                            > > >> >>
                                            > > >> >> If you do get the "thunk", then the problem might be in the
                                            > > >> > interlocks, or
                                            > > >> >> the power setting signal, or the throttle signal...
                                            > > >> >>
                                            > > >> >> Testing the interlocks:
                                            > > >> >>
                                            > > >> >> First, turn off the key switch and unplug the 25 pin
                                            connector.
                                            > > > Then
                                            > > >> > using
                                            > > >> >> an ohm meter measure the resistance between pins 1 and 11 on
                                            the
                                            > 25
                                            > > >> > pin
                                            > > >> >> connector (vehicle side, not the motor controller side).
                                            > > >> >>
                                            > > >> >> With the battery charger plugged in, it should read around 0
                                            > ohms
                                            > > >> > (short).
                                            > > >> >> With the battery charger un-plugged, it should read around
                                            > infinity
                                            > > >> > (open).
                                            > > >> >>
                                            > > >> >> Assuming that it worked, next check the forward / reverse /
                                            > neutral
                                            > > >> > switch.
                                            > > >> >>
                                            > > >> >> Measure between pins 1 and 3, it should be an open circuit,
                                            when
                                            > in
                                            > > >> >> neutral or reverse. It should only be shorted when in forward.
                                            > > >> >>
                                            > > >> >> Next measure between pins 1 and 16, it should be an open
                                            > circuit,
                                            > > > when
                                            > > >> > in
                                            > > >> >> neutral or forward. It should only be shorted when in reverse.
                                            > > >> >>
                                            > > >> >> Assuming that it worked, next check the throttle signal.
                                            > > >> >>
                                            > > >> >> Measure between pins 1 and 26, the resistance should be around
                                            0
                                            > > > ohms
                                            > > >> > when
                                            > > >> >> the throttle is not pressed, and vary all the way to 10K ohms
                                            > when
                                            > > >> > fully
                                            > > >> >> pressed.
                                            > > >> >>
                                            > > >> >> Assuming that it worked, next check the power setting.
                                            > > >> >>
                                            > > >> >> Measure between pins 1 and 18, the resistance should be around
                                            > 1K
                                            > > > ohms
                                            > > >> > in
                                            > > >> >> economy, 5K ohms in normal, and 10K ohms when in performance.
                                            > (if
                                            > > > you
                                            > > >> > have
                                            > > >> >> a power setting pot, then it will vary from 0 to 10K ohms).
                                            > > >> >>
                                            > > >> >>
                                            > > >> >> Hope this helps. :)
                                            > > >> >>
                                            > > >> >>
                                            > > >> >> Wolf
                                            > > >> >> *wags his tail*
                                            > > >> >> www.wolftronix. com
                                            > > >> >>
                                            > > >> >> > My need: There are two safety interlock circuits in the
                                            > > > Solectria
                                            > > >> > motor
                                            > > >> >> > control system that prevent activation: 1) when power is
                                            > turned
                                            > > > on
                                            > > >> > and the
                                            > > >> >> > direction control is not in neutral, and, 2) when the
                                            battery
                                            > > >> > charger is
                                            > > >> >> > on â€" i.e. when the car is plugged in. I seek
                                            information
                                            > > > about
                                            > > >> > these
                                            > > >> >> > interlocks, one of which appears to be locked "on" in my
                                            > > > Solectria.
                                            > > >> > At
                                            > > >> >> > least that is an explanation for the observed symptoms.
                                            > > > Everything
                                            > > >> >> > appears normal except that pressing the accelerator does
                                            > nothing.
                                            > > >> >> >
                                            > > >> >> > My technical advisor has an instrument made by Solectria to
                                            > test
                                            > > > the
                                            > > >> >> > controller â€" i.e. the large box with "Solectria" on
                                            the
                                            > top
                                            > > >> > â€" which when
                                            > > >> >> > connected shows nothing at all. His interpretation is that
                                            > power
                                            > > >> > within
                                            > > >> >> > the controller has been interrupted, and we assume the cause
                                            > to
                                            > > > be
                                            > > >> > an
                                            > > >> >> > interlock circuit. We know that 12v is present at the
                                            > connector
                                            > > >> > leading
                                            > > >> >> > to the controller, but that is in a separate cable from the
                                            > one
                                            > > >> > leading
                                            > > >> >> > from the "Ignition" box located under the dashboard, just
                                            > above
                                            > > > the
                                            > > >> >> > steering column. He has a block diagram that shows the two
                                            > > >> > interlock
                                            > > >> >> > circuits to be associated with the cable between the
                                            ignition
                                            > box
                                            > > >> > and the
                                            > > >> >> > controller, but it gives not a clue as to how they work.
                                            > > >> >> >
                                            > > >> >> > Has anyone had and solved a similar problem? Does anyone
                                            have
                                            > > >> > knowledge
                                            > > >> >> > of just how those interlocks work? Does anyone have a
                                            > suggestion
                                            > > > as
                                            > > >> > to
                                            > > >> >> > how I should proceed?
                                            > > >> >> >
                                            > > >> >> >
                                            > > >> >> >
                                            > > >> >>
                                            > > >> >
                                            > > >> >
                                            > > >> >
                                            > > >>
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            >




                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • Ray Alden
                                            Problem solved! Many thanks to Wolf, to Bill, and to others who have tried to help. My 98 Solectria, with 38,000 good miles on it, is now as good as new --
                                            Message 21 of 21 , Apr 6 4:08 PM
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                                              Problem solved! Many thanks to Wolf, to Bill, and to others who have
                                              tried to help. My '98 Solectria, with 38,000 good miles on it, is now
                                              as good as new -- starting on its third set of batteries, on its second
                                              set of tires, and everything working perfectly!

                                              Moments like this can be embarrassing, but confession is good for the
                                              soul, or something like that. The cause of the problem was a loose nut!

                                              Cables entering the controller pass through fittings that provide a
                                              measure of protection and strain relief. The small cable that brings in
                                              12v for control purposes, to run the controller, goes through one of
                                              these fittings, and just inside the box, the cable connects at a 90
                                              degree angle to a plug. The nut on the strain relief was evidently not
                                              tight enough to grip the cable firmly when we moved the controller out
                                              of the way to replace the battery pack. When we took the back off the
                                              controller, the plug had been dislodged from its socket enough to
                                              interrupt battery to the controller. We put the plug back in, tightened
                                              the nut securely, and all was fixed.

                                              You all might want to check those strain relief nuts!

                                              Then all we had to do was reassemble everything we had taken out
                                              searching for a more sophisticated answer to the problem.

                                              Peace to all, and thanks again.
                                              Ray

                                              --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, Bill or Dorothy Swann
                                              <dbswann4@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > Thanks for asking. It is mentioned on page 20 of this link at Kruspan
                                              <http://www.kruspan.ch/assets/downloads/Manual_AMC_III_Kruspan_V042005.p\
                                              df>
                                              >
                                              > Thanks,Bill S
                                              > Ph 832-338-3080
                                              > www.hstech.biz
                                              > www.promotingevs.com
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > ________________________________
                                              > From: Ray Alden rmalden_2000@...
                                              > To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                                              > Sent: Sunday, April 5, 2009 5:46:30 PM
                                              > Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: Interlock circuits
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Thanks, Bill: I take it you mean full pack voltage, is that correct?
                                              > When I made that test -- pins 1 to 14 -- 12v control voltage was
                                              > applied, but I think that I'd pulled the high-voltage connector. I'd
                                              > better do that over again!
                                              > Can you tell me where in the manual you found that "fine print"? I'm
                                              > just learning my way around in that book.
                                              > Ray
                                              >
                                              > --- In solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com, Bill or Dorothy Swann
                                              > dbswann4@ .> wrote:
                                              > >
                                              > > I read in the fine print in the manual, that the battery voltage
                                              needs
                                              > to be applied for a minute before shorting the pins. It worked for me.
                                              > >
                                              > > Thanks,Bill S
                                              > > Ph 832-338-3080
                                              > > www.hstech.biz
                                              > > www.promotingevs. com
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > ____________ _________ _________ __
                                              > > From: Ray Alden rmalden_2000@ ...
                                              > > To: solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com
                                              > > Sent: Friday, April 3, 2009 5:37:16 PM
                                              > > Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: Interlock circuits
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > Wolf: Travel and a broken computer interrupted my repair efforts on
                                              > my
                                              > > idle Solectria. I did download the user manual to which you
                                              referred,
                                              > > before leaving on a trip. Now I've run the first test that you
                                              > > suggested -- shorted pins 1 and 14 -- no "thunk" observed.
                                              > > My plan is to open the case and check that 12v and ground, and pins
                                              1
                                              > > and 14, are actually connected to the "drive" -- i.e. check that the
                                              > > connector is okay on those pins. Beyond that, I don't know what to
                                              > do.
                                              > > Have you a suggestion beyond that first test?
                                              > > Your help is sure appreciated!
                                              > > Ray
                                              > >
                                              > > --- In solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com, "Wolf" wolf@ wrote:
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > > All my info came from page 25 in the user manual:
                                              > > > http://www.wolftron ix.com/amc320/ Manual_AMC_ III.pdf :)
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Wolf
                                              > > > *wags his tail*
                                              > > > www.wolftronix. com
                                              > > >
                                              > > > > By the way . . .
                                              > > > > Your recommendations suggest that you have drawings, schematics,
                                              > or
                                              > > > > something that we don't have. E.g. You know which terminal in
                                              the
                                              > > > > 25-terminal connector is used for what purpose.
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > Is there information here that you might be willing to share?
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > Ray
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > --- In solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com, "Wolf" wolf@ wrote:
                                              > > > >>
                                              > > > >>
                                              > > > >> Yeah, when I say "Drive" I mean the AMC 325 Motor Controller.
                                              ;)
                                              > > > >>
                                              > > > >> http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Servo_drive
                                              > > > >>
                                              > > > >> The terminology is different depending on where you work, or
                                              what
                                              > > you
                                              > > > > have
                                              > > > >> been exposed to...
                                              > > > >>
                                              > > > >> In my day job, I make these:
                                              > > > >> http://www.frasca com/web_pages/ brochures/ S92bro.htm
                                              > > > >> And we call the motor controllers "drives". :)
                                              > > > >>
                                              > > > >> Anyway, intresting bit of information. .. So it was all working
                                              > fine
                                              > > > > and
                                              > > > >> then he replaced the batteries and now it does not work
                                              > anymore...
                                              > > > >>
                                              > > > >> Did it work for a little bit and then die after replacing the
                                              > > > > batteries?
                                              > > > >>
                                              > > > >> Or did it not work at all after replacing them?
                                              > > > >>
                                              > > > >> Do you have head lights? Radio? Etc...?
                                              > > > >>
                                              > > > >> Also, check to make sure there is not a short between the
                                              battery
                                              > > > > stack
                                              > > > >> positive or negative terminal to chasis ground (vehicle frame).
                                              > > > >>
                                              > > > >> If everything else is good, then I would guess that during
                                              > > disasembly
                                              > > > > and
                                              > > > >> removal of the batteries (or installation of the new
                                              batteries),
                                              > > and
                                              > > > >> important wire broke in a connector... I would do a visual
                                              > > inspection
                                              > > > > of
                                              > > > >> all the connectors that where removed and plugged back in.
                                              > > > >>
                                              > > > >> Solectria wiring, especially there crimped wires are not that
                                              > good:
                                              > > > >> http://www.wolftron ix.com/E10/ images/P5240145. jpg
                                              > > > >>
                                              > > > >> Fixed connector:
                                              > > > >> http://www.wolftron ix.com/E10/ images/P5240147. jpg
                                              > > > >>
                                              > > > >> I also recently replaced all the connectors on my truck, cause
                                              > they
                                              > > > > where
                                              > > > >> all rusted and intermittantly working:
                                              > > > >> http://www.wolftron ix.com/amc320_ connector
                                              > > > >>
                                              > > > >> Wolf
                                              > > > >> *wags his tail*
                                              > > > >> www.wolftronix. com
                                              > > > >>
                                              > > > >> > Thank you, Wolf! Much here for us to check out. We have,
                                              by
                                              > > the
                                              > > > > way,
                                              > > > >> > checked that stack power is right up there around 165 volts.
                                              I
                                              > > > > didn't
                                              > > > >> > mention this in my initial explanation, but my tech guy
                                              > replaced
                                              > > the
                                              > > > >> > battery stack in kind the day the problem appeared. He has
                                              > done
                                              > > > > this
                                              > > > >> > about 15 times before -- once for me, in 2003. With the old
                                              > > > > batteries,
                                              > > > >> > the car ran fine -- just not very far! With the new ones, it
                                              > > hasn't
                                              > > > > yet
                                              > > > >> > moved under its own power. All the work he did has been
                                              > checked
                                              > > > > over,
                                              > > > >> > and over, and over again. Stack power and fuses are good!
                                              > > > >> >
                                              > > > >> > Just to be sure I understand the instructions, you use the
                                              word
                                              > > > > "drive"
                                              > > > >> > in several places, and in some of them it isn't clear to me
                                              > just
                                              > > > > what
                                              > > > >> > you mean. Let's see if I can find an example:
                                              > > > >> >
                                              > > > >> > "First unplug main power from the drive" Is that the power
                                              > to
                                              > > the
                                              > > > >> > controller? The 240v ac to the whole car? Or one of the
                                              > > connectors
                                              > > > >> > visible when I raise the hood?
                                              > > > >> >
                                              > > > >> > I expect he will know what 25-pin connector you are speaking
                                              > > about,
                                              > > > > and
                                              > > > >> > I may be able to figure that out myself, in the daylight.
                                              I'll
                                              > > try,
                                              > > > > in
                                              > > > >> > the morning.
                                              > > > >> >
                                              > > > >> > "something is bad inside the drive" -- again, does that mean
                                              > > inside
                                              > > > > the
                                              > > > >> > controller?
                                              > > > >> >
                                              > > > >> > Sorry to be so dumb about the terminology. I'm a
                                              long-retired
                                              > > > >> > electronics engineer, but I've never worked on power
                                              equipment
                                              > or
                                              > > > > motor
                                              > > > >> > controllers -- just radios and such. <g>
                                              > > > >> >
                                              > > > >> > I sure do appreciate your help!
                                              > > > >> >
                                              > > > >> > Ray
                                              > > > >> >
                                              > > > >> >
                                              > > > >> > --- In solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com, "Wolf" wolf@ wrote:
                                              > > > >> >>
                                              > > > >> >>
                                              > > > >> >> Totaly not fair... I did not know there where control boxes
                                              > out
                                              > > > >> > there... :P
                                              > > > >> >>
                                              > > > >> >> I am building my own AMC control box:
                                              > > > >> >> http://www.wolftron ix.com/AMC_ Control/
                                              > > > >> >>
                                              > > > >> >> Still need to finish wiring it.
                                              > > > >> >>
                                              > > > >> >> Also, I put my RS422 to RS232 adapter in the box too. ;)
                                              > > > >> >>
                                              > > > >> >> I now have 1 motor and 3 AMC drives to fix, so I am
                                              investing
                                              > in
                                              > > my
                                              > > > >> > own
                                              > > > >> >> test equipment, much better then taking parts off my truck
                                              to
                                              > > test
                                              > > > >> >> repaired parts. :)
                                              > > > >> >>
                                              > > > >> >>
                                              > > > >> >> Anyway... To get the drive to come on, you don't need any
                                              > > external
                                              > > > >> > power
                                              > > > >> >> supplies other then the main battery power.
                                              > > > >> >>
                                              > > > >> >> First unplug main power from the drive and measure with a
                                              volt
                                              > > > > meter
                                              > > > >> > that
                                              > > > >> >> you have stack voltage present and your fuse is not blown.
                                              > > > >> >>
                                              > > > >> >> If stack power is good, then unplug the 25-pin connector and
                                              > > short
                                              > > > > out
                                              > > > >> > pin
                                              > > > >> >> 1 to pin 14 (on the controller side), if you hear a "thunk"
                                              > then
                                              > > > > the
                                              > > > >> >> standby and main power supply are working... if you hear
                                              > > nothing,
                                              > > > >> > well,
                                              > > > >> >> then something is bad inside the drive.
                                              > > > >> >>
                                              > > > >> >> If you get the "thunk" then connect the 25-pin connector
                                              back
                                              > to
                                              > > > > your
                                              > > > >> > car,
                                              > > > >> >> turn on the key switch and see if you hear the same "thunk".
                                              > > > >> >>
                                              > > > >> >> If not then its a problem in the ignition box in your car.
                                              > > > >> >>
                                              > > > >> >>
                                              > > > >> >> If you do get the "thunk", then the problem might be in the
                                              > > > >> > interlocks, or
                                              > > > >> >> the power setting signal, or the throttle signal...
                                              > > > >> >>
                                              > > > >> >> Testing the interlocks:
                                              > > > >> >>
                                              > > > >> >> First, turn off the key switch and unplug the 25 pin
                                              > connector.
                                              > > > > Then
                                              > > > >> > using
                                              > > > >> >> an ohm meter measure the resistance between pins 1 and 11 on
                                              > the
                                              > > 25
                                              > > > >> > pin
                                              > > > >> >> connector (vehicle side, not the motor controller side).
                                              > > > >> >>
                                              > > > >> >> With the battery charger plugged in, it should read around 0
                                              > > ohms
                                              > > > >> > (short).
                                              > > > >> >> With the battery charger un-plugged, it should read around
                                              > > infinity
                                              > > > >> > (open).
                                              > > > >> >>
                                              > > > >> >> Assuming that it worked, next check the forward / reverse /
                                              > > neutral
                                              > > > >> > switch.
                                              > > > >> >>
                                              > > > >> >> Measure between pins 1 and 3, it should be an open circuit,
                                              > when
                                              > > in
                                              > > > >> >> neutral or reverse. It should only be shorted when in
                                              forward.
                                              > > > >> >>
                                              > > > >> >> Next measure between pins 1 and 16, it should be an open
                                              > > circuit,
                                              > > > > when
                                              > > > >> > in
                                              > > > >> >> neutral or forward. It should only be shorted when in
                                              reverse.
                                              > > > >> >>
                                              > > > >> >> Assuming that it worked, next check the throttle signal.
                                              > > > >> >>
                                              > > > >> >> Measure between pins 1 and 26, the resistance should be
                                              around
                                              > 0
                                              > > > > ohms
                                              > > > >> > when
                                              > > > >> >> the throttle is not pressed, and vary all the way to 10K
                                              ohms
                                              > > when
                                              > > > >> > fully
                                              > > > >> >> pressed.
                                              > > > >> >>
                                              > > > >> >> Assuming that it worked, next check the power setting.
                                              > > > >> >>
                                              > > > >> >> Measure between pins 1 and 18, the resistance should be
                                              around
                                              > > 1K
                                              > > > > ohms
                                              > > > >> > in
                                              > > > >> >> economy, 5K ohms in normal, and 10K ohms when in
                                              performance.
                                              > > (if
                                              > > > > you
                                              > > > >> > have
                                              > > > >> >> a power setting pot, then it will vary from 0 to 10K ohms).
                                              > > > >> >>
                                              > > > >> >>
                                              > > > >> >> Hope this helps. :)
                                              > > > >> >>
                                              > > > >> >>
                                              > > > >> >> Wolf
                                              > > > >> >> *wags his tail*
                                              > > > >> >> www.wolftronix. com
                                              > > > >> >>
                                              > > > >> >> > My need: There are two safety interlock circuits in the
                                              > > > > Solectria
                                              > > > >> > motor
                                              > > > >> >> > control system that prevent activation: 1) when power is
                                              > > turned
                                              > > > > on
                                              > > > >> > and the
                                              > > > >> >> > direction control is not in neutral, and, 2) when the
                                              > battery
                                              > > > >> > charger is
                                              > > > >> >> > on â€" i.e. when the car is plugged in. I seek
                                              > information
                                              > > > > about
                                              > > > >> > these
                                              > > > >> >> > interlocks, one of which appears to be locked "on" in my
                                              > > > > Solectria.
                                              > > > >> > At
                                              > > > >> >> > least that is an explanation for the observed symptoms.
                                              > > > > Everything
                                              > > > >> >> > appears normal except that pressing the accelerator does
                                              > > nothing.
                                              > > > >> >> >
                                              > > > >> >> > My technical advisor has an instrument made by Solectria
                                              to
                                              > > test
                                              > > > > the
                                              > > > >> >> > controller â€" i.e. the large box with "Solectria"
                                              on
                                              > the
                                              > > top
                                              > > > >> > â€" which when
                                              > > > >> >> > connected shows nothing at all. His interpretation is
                                              that
                                              > > power
                                              > > > >> > within
                                              > > > >> >> > the controller has been interrupted, and we assume the
                                              cause
                                              > > to
                                              > > > > be
                                              > > > >> > an
                                              > > > >> >> > interlock circuit. We know that 12v is present at the
                                              > > connector
                                              > > > >> > leading
                                              > > > >> >> > to the controller, but that is in a separate cable from
                                              the
                                              > > one
                                              > > > >> > leading
                                              > > > >> >> > from the "Ignition" box located under the dashboard, just
                                              > > above
                                              > > > > the
                                              > > > >> >> > steering column. He has a block diagram that shows the
                                              two
                                              > > > >> > interlock
                                              > > > >> >> > circuits to be associated with the cable between the
                                              > ignition
                                              > > box
                                              > > > >> > and the
                                              > > > >> >> > controller, but it gives not a clue as to how they work.
                                              > > > >> >> >
                                              > > > >> >> > Has anyone had and solved a similar problem? Does anyone
                                              > have
                                              > > > >> > knowledge
                                              > > > >> >> > of just how those interlocks work? Does anyone have a
                                              > > suggestion
                                              > > > > as
                                              > > > >> > to
                                              > > > >> >> > how I should proceed?
                                              > > > >> >> >
                                              > > > >> >> >
                                              > > > >> >> >
                                              > > > >> >>
                                              > > > >> >
                                              > > > >> >
                                              > > > >> >
                                              > > > >>
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              > >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              >
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