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Force on eBay

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  • anbausa
    EV Finder allert; Someone from Phoenix, AZ is currently selling a 1999/2000 Solectria Force on eBay. The URL is
    Message 1 of 20 , Apr 8, 2002
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      EV Finder allert;

      Someone from Phoenix, AZ is currently selling a 1999/2000 Solectria
      Force on eBay. The URL is

      http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
      ViewItem&item=1819731050

      If the URL wraps you might need to cut and past to get it to work
      properly.

      Noel
      www.geocities.com/evfinder/
    • Noel P. Luneau
      For anyone on the list that is looking for a Force, there is one on eBay with four days to go and an immediate buy of $9,900. Specs (from Post): Year: 1998
      Message 2 of 20 , Nov 3, 2005
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        For anyone on the list that is looking for a Force, there is one on eBay
        with four days to go and an immediate buy of $9,900.

        Specs (from Post):
        Year: 1998
        Miles: 11,600
        Color: Red

        Even at the buy now price, it seems to be a good deal. Here is the URL
        -
        http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4587045542
        &sspagename=ADME%3AB%3ASS%3AUS%3A1

        Note: I have no affiliation with this sale!

        Noel L

        ________________________________

        From: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com [mailto:solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com]
        On Behalf Of Stephen Taylor
        Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 5:54 AM
        To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: [solectria_ev] Pre Heater


        Noel

        If you want to send me your fax number I could copy the two pages out of
        my owner's manual that deal with the preheater. I don't have a
        preheater, but the instructions say.

        "The vehicle must be plugged in to energize preheat display and for
        preheat system to operate."

        Stephen Taylor

        "Noel P. Luneau" <nluneau@...> wrote:
        For the pre-heater, does it only work (LCD lights up) when the charger
        is operating? If not, maybe I have a fuse out.

        So many new members, so much interest in EV's, so much control by Big
        Oil.

        Noel



        ---------------------------------
        Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



        ________________________________

        YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



        * Visit your group "solectria_ev
        <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/solectria_ev> " on the web.

        * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        solectria_ev-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        <mailto:solectria_ev-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>

        * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
        Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .


        ________________________________




        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Noel Adams
        There is a 1994 Solectria Force on eBay at the moment. The guys selling it don t appear to know anything about it and it looks like the batteries have not
        Message 3 of 20 , Jan 18, 2006
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          There is a 1994 Solectria Force on eBay at the moment. The guys
          selling it don't appear to know anything about it and it looks like the
          batteries have not been kept charged so it will probably need a new
          pack. There could also be other things wrong with it. However, it
          looks like it is being sold without a reserve so it could go at a
          reasonable price.

          Here's the URL and if it doesn't work then I will have a link on-line
          at evfinder.com after 6pm PST tonight.

          http://tinyurl.com/7scvt

          Noel
          evfinder.com
        • Dave Bush
          Hi everyone, First off - let me introduce myself. I m someone who s very interested in getting his first EV. I ve looked at C-cars and the new Zap Xebra, and
          Message 4 of 20 , Jan 19, 2006
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            Hi everyone,
            First off - let me introduce myself. I'm someone who's very interested
            in getting his first EV. I've looked at C-cars and the new Zap Xebra, and
            both are limited to around 40 MPH. I live a few miles out of town and don't
            want to be the jerk that slows down the morning commute every day, so I'm
            looking for an EV that goes just a little faster. Of all the cars I've owned
            one of my favorites has always been my '92 Geo Metro. Ran forever with great
            gas mileage. (Favorite was the time I made it from Ogdensburg, NY, across
            the border into Canada, onto the 401 west to the 402 west, and almost to
            Port Huron, MI on a single 8 gallon tank of gas. I stopped just shy of the
            border and put $2 Canadian in gas in it just in case I got backed up in
            customs.)

            With all that in mind, it's been suggested that a Force would be
            perfect for me. As a result I joined this group and have been lurking so
            far. Now Noel has posted the link to this auction (thanks again Noel!) and
            I'm keeping an eye on this both because it's a Force and because it's fairly
            close by. (It's in NJ, and I'm in Ithaca, NY.)

            Can you guys tell me what would be a reasonable price for this vehicle
            in the shape described? I don't want to overbid just for the sake of getting
            a Force. It looks like as gas prices have dropped back down from their $3+
            high that the interest in EV's is once again waning, so hopefully it won't
            go for a crazy amount like many of the C-car's I've seen on there.

            Thanks,
            - Dave
            --
            Dave Bush <hockeystatman@...>

            There are two seasons in my world - Hockey and Construction


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Ken Olum
            From: Dave Bush Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 08:31:22 -0500 Can you guys tell me what would be a reasonable price for this vehicle in the
            Message 5 of 20 , Jan 19, 2006
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              From: Dave Bush <hockeystatman@...>
              Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 08:31:22 -0500

              Can you guys tell me what would be a reasonable price for this vehicle
              in the shape described?

              The problem is to figure out what shape this car is in. I don't think
              a Force in completely unknown shape is worth very much. If it is
              working except for needing new batteries, I would say it is worth
              about $10K. Take off at least $2K if the charger is not working. Of
              course what it's worth to you depends on your willingness to do
              whatever is necessary to get it running vs. how willing you are to
              wait for another one to be available.

              Ken
            • Dave Bush
              ... Thanks Ken - I appreciate the info. I guess I still have to get my mind out of well what would I expect to pay for a used Metro mode when thinking of
              Message 6 of 20 , Jan 19, 2006
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                On 1/19/06, Ken Olum <kdo@...> wrote:
                >
                > The problem is to figure out what shape this car is in. I don't think
                > a Force in completely unknown shape is worth very much. If it is
                > working except for needing new batteries, I would say it is worth
                > about $10K. Take off at least $2K if the charger is not working. Of
                > course what it's worth to you depends on your willingness to do
                > whatever is necessary to get it running vs. how willing you are to
                > wait for another one to be available.


                Thanks Ken - I appreciate the info.

                I guess I still have to get my mind out of "well what would I expect to pay
                for a used Metro" mode when thinking of these. I was thinking it'd go for
                much, much less than that.

                Doesn't stop my interest in getting one though. I'll keep my eye on it, and
                if it goes cheap enough my wife will have something to complain about in the
                drive way 'til I get it working. :)

                --
                Dave Bush <hockeystatman@...>

                There are two seasons in my world - Hockey and Construction


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Adam Kuehn
                ... It very well might. The strong implication in the ad was that this was NOT a working vehicle - the ad shows it on a tow rig - and the cosmetic pictures
                Message 7 of 20 , Jan 19, 2006
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                  Dave Bush wrote:
                  > > The problem is to figure out what shape this car is in. I don't think
                  > > a Force in completely unknown shape is worth very much. If it is
                  > > working except for needing new batteries, I would say it is worth
                  > > about $10K. Take off at least $2K if the charger is not working.
                  >
                  >I guess I still have to get my mind out of "well what would I expect to pay
                  >for a used Metro" mode when thinking of these. I was thinking it'd go for
                  >much, much less than that.

                  It very well might. The strong implication in the ad was that this
                  was NOT a working vehicle - the ad shows it on a tow rig - and the
                  cosmetic pictures show it in much worse shape that most Forces I have
                  seen up for auction. (Force owners are usually pretty meticulous
                  with their maintenance.) I don't know what the back end of that
                  model year should look like, but I also thought it noteworthy that no
                  under-the-hood picture appeared in the ad. I would bid with
                  caution. This vehicle looks to have been neglected for some time.



                  -Adam Kuehn
                • Dave Bush
                  ... Home users yes, but this looks like it was a fleet vehicle for the NY Power Authority. Not to imply that fleets are more careless than home users, but I
                  Message 8 of 20 , Jan 19, 2006
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                    On 1/19/06, Adam Kuehn <akuehn@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > It very well might. The strong implication in the ad was that this
                    > was NOT a working vehicle - the ad shows it on a tow rig - and the
                    > cosmetic pictures show it in much worse shape that most Forces I have
                    > seen up for auction. (Force owners are usually pretty meticulous
                    > with their maintenance.)


                    Home users yes, but this looks like it was a fleet vehicle for the NY Power
                    Authority. Not to imply that fleets are more careless than home users, but I
                    think your average personal EV user is much more particular about everything
                    than some fleet vehicle that someone jumps in and just drives.

                    I don't know what the back end of that
                    > model year should look like, but I also thought it noteworthy that no
                    > under-the-hood picture appeared in the ad.


                    Good point. I'll email and ask for some.

                    I did notice the ding on the back passenger's side. That didn't look too
                    bad, and overall the picture of the back of the car looked okay to me. I'm
                    guessing that's around the same year as the Metro I had. (a '92) The body
                    style is from that era Metro / before they went to the newer angular style
                    that offered a sedan.

                    I also remember there being a recall by GM on Metros of this era because of
                    a problem with the clasp on the hood. That might explain the lack of under
                    the hood pics, but I highly doubt it. I think the problem was weakness, not
                    "won't open" type of problems.

                    I would bid with
                    > caution. This vehicle looks to have been neglected for some time.


                    My wife and I were discussing this, and we're thinking if it's close to the
                    $1,000 mark then it'll be something that's worth taking a chance on. More
                    than that, and I'll be patient & see what comes along next.

                    --
                    Dave Bush <hockeystatman@...>

                    There are two seasons in my world - Hockey and Construction


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Jim Coate
                    I would second Adams comments as I too have concerns over the condition of this car. $10K should get something pretty much ready to drive I d think. I actually
                    Message 9 of 20 , Jan 19, 2006
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                      I would second Adams comments as I too have concerns over the condition
                      of this car. $10K should get something pretty much ready to drive I'd
                      think. I actually like the hatchback shape, but the tail light is broken
                      with some small dents and scratches in the area yet can't see much
                      beyond that in the picture. NJ gets enough snow I'd want to see under
                      the bottom to check for rust. Maybe call the guy and ask to view it
                      ahead of time?

                      Owners of '94 models might be able to clear something up for me: Just
                      from the pictures, this '94 appears to have less features than my '97.
                      The center console has no mode selector ("economy", "normal", "power")
                      and has no regen on/off switch. One picture shows what I'm guessing to
                      be two smallish chargers in the hatchback area, instead of one larger
                      unit. So... did the 94's have a different drive train than the newer models?

                      Disclaimer: I'm near Chatham, NY so this is close enough that I've
                      considered bidding if the price stays low enough. Or if you (Dave) win
                      it maybe you'd like to take it on a detour back to Ithaca...

                      And finally, how steep are the hills in your area around Ithaca? On flat
                      ground, yes, the Force can get up to highway speeds just fine. But
                      around me there are some steep hills on local roads where, even in power
                      mode, about 30-35mph is all it can muster. But the regen sure is fun
                      coming down the other side of the hill :-)


                      Adam Kuehn wrote:
                      > Dave Bush wrote:
                      >
                      >>>The problem is to figure out what shape this car is in. I don't think
                      >>>a Force in completely unknown shape is worth very much. If it is
                      >>>working except for needing new batteries, I would say it is worth
                      >>>about $10K. Take off at least $2K if the charger is not working.
                      >>
                      >>I guess I still have to get my mind out of "well what would I expect to pay
                      >>for a used Metro" mode when thinking of these. I was thinking it'd go for
                      >>much, much less than that.
                      >
                      >
                      > It very well might. The strong implication in the ad was that this
                      > was NOT a working vehicle - the ad shows it on a tow rig - and the
                      > cosmetic pictures show it in much worse shape that most Forces I have
                      > seen up for auction. (Force owners are usually pretty meticulous
                      > with their maintenance.) I don't know what the back end of that
                      > model year should look like, but I also thought it noteworthy that no
                      > under-the-hood picture appeared in the ad. I would bid with
                      > caution. This vehicle looks to have been neglected for some time.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > -Adam Kuehn
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >


                      --
                      Jim Coate
                      1970's Elec-Trak's
                      1998 Chevy S-10 NiMH BEV
                      1997 Chevy S-10 NGV Bi-Fuel
                      http://www.eeevee.com
                    • gjc0@aol.com
                      Dave Bush: We first need to make the assumption that you want an EV. The 1992 Geo Metro that you had is cheaper to operate than a 1994 Solectria Force when
                      Message 10 of 20 , Jan 19, 2006
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                        Dave Bush:

                        We first need to make the assumption that you want an EV. The
                        1992 Geo Metro that you had is cheaper to operate than a 1994
                        Solectria Force when you consider the cost of battery amortization.
                        (Numbers available upon request)

                        I looked at the EBAY add and they don't claim to know much.
                        Assuming that the motor, controller and chargers are good,
                        you will most likely need to replace the batteries.
                        If you go with seal gel batteries (Deka, East Penn, MK Batteries)
                        allow $2,000 for replacements.

                        If you later find that the charger(s) is bad, you can get a good
                        Zivan for about $800 new. Note that battery chargers need to
                        be calibrated to match the type of battery that you are using.
                        A mismatched charger-battery system will eventually destroy your
                        $2,000 battery pack.

                        If your controller or motor is bad, the cost climbs well over $2,000
                        if you need to buy replacements.

                        Add to these considerations the need to do body and interior work to get the car up to your standards.

                        All that said, we now need to consider the cost of the 1994 Solectria Force. Note that its value can vary tremendously depending upon the condition of the components in it. If all the components are good, maybe $4,000 (given it needs body work).

                        If you have no idea about the condition of the motor, controller and chargers, I would bid considerably less unless you feel very lucky.

                        Good luck,
                        Gary Carlson
                        1992 Solectria Force Owner (with 10,000+ personal EV miles)

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: Dave Bush <hockeystatman@...>
                        To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 08:31:22 -0500
                        Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Force on eBay


                        Hi everyone,
                        First off - let me introduce myself. I'm someone who's very interested
                        in getting his first EV. I've looked at C-cars and the new Zap Xebra, and
                        both are limited to around 40 MPH. I live a few miles out of town and don't
                        want to be the jerk that slows down the morning commute every day, so I'm
                        looking for an EV that goes just a little faster. Of all the cars I've owned
                        one of my favorites has always been my '92 Geo Metro. Ran forever with great
                        gas mileage. (Favorite was the time I made it from Ogdensburg, NY, across
                        the border into Canada, onto the 401 west to the 402 west, and almost to
                        Port Huron, MI on a single 8 gallon tank of gas. I stopped just shy of the
                        border and put $2 Canadian in gas in it just in case I got backed up in
                        customs.)

                        With all that in mind, it's been suggested that a Force would be
                        perfect for me. As a result I joined this group and have been lurking so
                        far. Now Noel has posted the link to this auction (thanks again Noel!) and
                        I'm keeping an eye on this both because it's a Force and because it's fairly
                        close by. (It's in NJ, and I'm in Ithaca, NY.)

                        Can you guys tell me what would be a reasonable price for this vehicle
                        in the shape described? I don't want to overbid just for the sake of getting
                        a Force. It looks like as gas prices have dropped back down from their $3+
                        high that the interest in EV's is once again waning, so hopefully it won't
                        go for a crazy amount like many of the C-car's I've seen on there.

                        Thanks,
                        - Dave
                        --
                        Dave Bush <hockeystatman@...>

                        There are two seasons in my world - Hockey and Construction


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                        Yahoo! Groups Links






                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Dave Bush
                        ... Just looked at Map Quest - that d be a bit of a detour! :) So if you re a NYS Force owner, what s your overall opinion / experience of driving a Force in
                        Message 11 of 20 , Jan 19, 2006
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                          On 1/19/06, Jim Coate <jbc@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Disclaimer: I'm near Chatham, NY so this is close enough that I've
                          > considered bidding if the price stays low enough. Or if you (Dave) win
                          > it maybe you'd like to take it on a detour back to Ithaca...


                          Just looked at Map Quest - that'd be a bit of a detour! :)

                          So if you're a NYS Force owner, what's your overall opinion / experience of
                          driving a Force in NYS? Do you drive yours year round? (Feel free to reply
                          off-list if you don't want to clog up the list with this info.)

                          And finally, how steep are the hills in your area around Ithaca? On flat
                          > ground, yes, the Force can get up to highway speeds just fine. But
                          > around me there are some steep hills on local roads where, even in power
                          > mode, about 30-35mph is all it can muster. But the regen sure is fun
                          > coming down the other side of the hill :-)


                          Well Ithaca is a bit hilly, and I actually live just outside of Ithaca in
                          Newfield, NY. There are some hills to get up. Route 13 changes to 2 lanes in
                          the up hill direction though, so that should minimize the pain for anyone
                          behind me. The steepest hills I'd probably see is getting up to Cornell if I
                          get the job I'm interviewing for next Thursday. That's in-city driving
                          though, so 30-35 would be fine.

                          Thanks to all that have replied so far. Your knowledge and experience is why
                          I joined this list, and it is very much appreciated. It sounds like unless
                          this goes for peanuts that I might want to pass and keep looking.

                          Jim - if the price is low, let's not get in a bidding war against each
                          other. My eBay ID is GOSENSGO.

                          Thanks everyone,
                          - Dave
                          --
                          Dave Bush <hockeystatman@...>

                          There are two seasons in my world - Hockey and Construction


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • ldr214
                          Dave, Finger lakes area to NJ isn t eactly a short drive to go take a look but if you have a representative closer who could give you an opinion on the
                          Message 12 of 20 , Jan 19, 2006
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                            Dave,
                            Finger lakes area to NJ isn't eactly a short drive to go take a look
                            but if you have a representative closer who could give you an opinion
                            on the condition of the metro it would be worth doing. If the car
                            itself is a project then you may not even want to consider the
                            electric part of it.

                            Like with any other vehicle you could do a records search on the vin
                            number. A previous owner might be a source of info.

                            There are some owners on the forum who definitely have a Force of that
                            vintage. Just recently two of them had charger problems and I think
                            after some troublshooting they where able to resolve it rather
                            cheaply. If I'm correct that car has two chargers working in parallel,
                            trunk picture.

                            Point being the car most likely it had some mechanicial problem and
                            then was neglected. This could be almost anything or everything and
                            the lucky high bidder is going to find out just how much or how little
                            it takes to get it running if that is their desire.

                            Personally I would bid on that car as a marginal parts donor and if it
                            turns out to be a "diamond in the rough" you can say you got it on
                            ebay. Do you need the parts or know someone who does? Certainly find
                            out if it has already been stripped. More pictures. If they won't send
                            them don't bid.

                            Know idea if you want your first EV to be a project car. Support for
                            some of the parts in the Foce isn't the greatest. Somebody correct me
                            if I'm wrong on that.

                            Lastly my 97 Force is a great around town car. Also capable of mixing
                            it up in I-80 CA traffic for a few miles but I don't recall ever
                            passing anyone. The Force is pretty much electricially incapable of
                            speeds above 70 and you won't set any acceleration records above 50. A
                            "quick" car up to about 40 and from 50-70 you might/will get the slow
                            poke look from others.

                            You have a warm spot for Metro's so a better, running, Force might be
                            a better choice for a 1st EV. Or any other EV that you can actually
                            use instead of fix. But then again diamond mining can be profitable.

                            Anyhow that is just one opinion.

                            Mike
                            97



                            --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, Dave Bush <hockeystatman@g...>
                            wrote:
                            >
                            > Hi everyone,
                            > First off - let me introduce myself. I'm someone who's very
                            interested
                            > in getting his first EV. I've looked at C-cars and the new Zap
                            Xebra, and
                            > both are limited to around 40 MPH. I live a few miles out of town
                            and don't
                            > want to be the jerk that slows down the morning commute every day,
                            so I'm
                            > looking for an EV that goes just a little faster. Of all the cars
                            I've owned
                            > one of my favorites has always been my '92 Geo Metro. Ran forever
                            with great
                            > gas mileage. (Favorite was the time I made it from Ogdensburg, NY,
                            across
                            > the border into Canada, onto the 401 west to the 402 west, and almost to
                            > Port Huron, MI on a single 8 gallon tank of gas. I stopped just shy
                            of the
                            > border and put $2 Canadian in gas in it just in case I got backed up in
                            > customs.)
                            >
                            > With all that in mind, it's been suggested that a Force would be
                            > perfect for me. As a result I joined this group and have been lurking so
                            > far. Now Noel has posted the link to this auction (thanks again
                            Noel!) and
                            > I'm keeping an eye on this both because it's a Force and because
                            it's fairly
                            > close by. (It's in NJ, and I'm in Ithaca, NY.)
                            >
                            > Can you guys tell me what would be a reasonable price for this
                            vehicle
                            > in the shape described? I don't want to overbid just for the sake of
                            getting
                            > a Force. It looks like as gas prices have dropped back down from
                            their $3+
                            > high that the interest in EV's is once again waning, so hopefully it
                            won't
                            > go for a crazy amount like many of the C-car's I've seen on there.
                            >
                            > Thanks,
                            > - Dave
                            > --
                            > Dave Bush <hockeystatman@g...>
                            >
                            > There are two seasons in my world - Hockey and Construction
                            >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                          • Rex Allison
                            Dave, There are always exceptions but it seems for Lead Acid Force EVs in perfect working condition with brand new batteries sell in this sort of range: Force
                            Message 13 of 20 , Jan 19, 2006
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                              Dave,
                              There are always exceptions but it seems for Lead Acid
                              Force EVs in perfect working condition with brand new
                              batteries sell in this sort of range:
                              Force Sedans 12-16k
                              Force Hatchbacks 9-11k (smaller vehicle and older
                              parts)

                              There isn't any "Blue Book" information on purchasing
                              an EV but I sort of have my own guidelines when
                              looking at a used EV.

                              First, most EVs are really conversions (Solectrias
                              being the probablly the most professional of this
                              group) so you want to compare the price of buying the
                              components and converting the vehicle yourself.

                              For a Force these are very rough estimates:
                              Motor $2k
                              Controller $5k
                              Transaxle $2k
                              Charger $2k
                              DC-DC $1k
                              Metering $0.5k
                              Battery Boxes $0.5k
                              Potbox + Misc. $0.5k
                              =========================
                              Total $13.5k

                              Electro Automotive kit is $13.5k

                              Plus:
                              Batteries $2k
                              Good Condition Donar $2k

                              So starting from scratch would be $17.5k
                              plus your own time.

                              One observation I've made is that most used EVs that
                              are in perfect running condition sell for
                              approximately the cost of the components. Anything
                              below this is what I consider a deal assuming the
                              vehicle meets your needs. Some people just want their
                              money back so they can convert another car since the
                              learning experience was a reward in itself.

                              So if you are just the batteries need replacing knock
                              off $2k.

                              My other observation is that for non-running vehicles
                              with questionable components seem to sell for about
                              half as much as running vehicles so anything below
                              this I consider a deal. So lets say the vehicle in
                              question would sell for $9k - $2k for batteries = $7k,
                              and take half of that $3.5k.

                              At the same time their seem to be a lower limit of $2k
                              - $3k for used EVs this seems to be more from the fact
                              that their is some value in the chassis and the
                              battery boxes and mounting all the components.

                              When you get into the lower price range you are now
                              getting into a project car and you need to ask
                              yourself if you have the time and the know-how to get
                              the vehicle up and running or is it going to sit in
                              the driveway until you sell it.

                              This of course is just my $0.00002k.

                              Rex


                              --- Dave Bush <hockeystatman@...> wrote:

                              > On 1/19/06, Jim Coate <jbc@...> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > Disclaimer: I'm near Chatham, NY so this is close
                              > enough that I've
                              > > considered bidding if the price stays low enough.
                              > Or if you (Dave) win
                              > > it maybe you'd like to take it on a detour back to
                              > Ithaca...
                              >
                              >
                              > Just looked at Map Quest - that'd be a bit of a
                              > detour! :)
                              >
                              > So if you're a NYS Force owner, what's your overall
                              > opinion / experience of
                              > driving a Force in NYS? Do you drive yours year
                              > round? (Feel free to reply
                              > off-list if you don't want to clog up the list with
                              > this info.)
                              >
                              > And finally, how steep are the hills in your area
                              > around Ithaca? On flat
                              > > ground, yes, the Force can get up to highway
                              > speeds just fine. But
                              > > around me there are some steep hills on local
                              > roads where, even in power
                              > > mode, about 30-35mph is all it can muster. But the
                              > regen sure is fun
                              > > coming down the other side of the hill :-)
                              >
                              >
                              > Well Ithaca is a bit hilly, and I actually live just
                              > outside of Ithaca in
                              > Newfield, NY. There are some hills to get up. Route
                              > 13 changes to 2 lanes in
                              > the up hill direction though, so that should
                              > minimize the pain for anyone
                              > behind me. The steepest hills I'd probably see is
                              > getting up to Cornell if I
                              > get the job I'm interviewing for next Thursday.
                              > That's in-city driving
                              > though, so 30-35 would be fine.
                              >
                              > Thanks to all that have replied so far. Your
                              > knowledge and experience is why
                              > I joined this list, and it is very much appreciated.
                              > It sounds like unless
                              > this goes for peanuts that I might want to pass and
                              > keep looking.
                              >
                              > Jim - if the price is low, let's not get in a
                              > bidding war against each
                              > other. My eBay ID is GOSENSGO.
                              >
                              > Thanks everyone,
                              > - Dave
                              > --
                              > Dave Bush <hockeystatman@...>
                              >
                              > There are two seasons in my world - Hockey and
                              > Construction
                              >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                              > removed]
                              >
                              >


                              __________________________________________________
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                            • Noel Adams
                              In the sales that I ve tracked a Force in good condition with a good pack have sold in the range of $9K to $12K. I only tracked one that sold with a bad pack
                              Message 14 of 20 , Jan 19, 2006
                              • 0 Attachment
                                In the sales that I've tracked a Force in good condition with a good pack
                                have sold in the range of $9K to $12K. I only tracked one that sold with a
                                bad pack and that went for around $5K. I expect this to go for under this
                                amount because it is most likely to need some work to get it going and will
                                almost certainly need a new pack.

                                Noel


                                >From: Rex Allison <ev64bug@...>
                                >Reply-To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                                >To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                                >Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Force on eBay
                                >Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 12:26:34 -0800 (PST)
                                >
                                >Dave,
                                >There are always exceptions but it seems for Lead Acid
                                >Force EVs in perfect working condition with brand new
                                >batteries sell in this sort of range:
                                >Force Sedans 12-16k
                                >Force Hatchbacks 9-11k (smaller vehicle and older
                                >parts)
                                >
                                >There isn't any "Blue Book" information on purchasing
                                >an EV but I sort of have my own guidelines when
                                >looking at a used EV.
                                >
                                >First, most EVs are really conversions (Solectrias
                                >being the probablly the most professional of this
                                >group) so you want to compare the price of buying the
                                >components and converting the vehicle yourself.
                                >
                                >For a Force these are very rough estimates:
                                >Motor $2k
                                >Controller $5k
                                >Transaxle $2k
                                >Charger $2k
                                >DC-DC $1k
                                >Metering $0.5k
                                >Battery Boxes $0.5k
                                >Potbox + Misc. $0.5k
                                >=========================
                                >Total $13.5k
                                >
                                >Electro Automotive kit is $13.5k
                                >
                                >Plus:
                                >Batteries $2k
                                >Good Condition Donar $2k
                                >
                                >So starting from scratch would be $17.5k
                                >plus your own time.
                                >
                                >One observation I've made is that most used EVs that
                                >are in perfect running condition sell for
                                >approximately the cost of the components. Anything
                                >below this is what I consider a deal assuming the
                                >vehicle meets your needs. Some people just want their
                                >money back so they can convert another car since the
                                >learning experience was a reward in itself.
                                >
                                >So if you are just the batteries need replacing knock
                                >off $2k.
                                >
                                >My other observation is that for non-running vehicles
                                >with questionable components seem to sell for about
                                >half as much as running vehicles so anything below
                                >this I consider a deal. So lets say the vehicle in
                                >question would sell for $9k - $2k for batteries = $7k,
                                >and take half of that $3.5k.
                                >
                                >At the same time their seem to be a lower limit of $2k
                                >- $3k for used EVs this seems to be more from the fact
                                >that their is some value in the chassis and the
                                >battery boxes and mounting all the components.
                                >
                                >When you get into the lower price range you are now
                                >getting into a project car and you need to ask
                                >yourself if you have the time and the know-how to get
                                >the vehicle up and running or is it going to sit in
                                >the driveway until you sell it.
                                >
                                >This of course is just my $0.00002k.
                                >
                                >Rex
                                >
                                >
                                >--- Dave Bush <hockeystatman@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > > On 1/19/06, Jim Coate <jbc@...> wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > > Disclaimer: I'm near Chatham, NY so this is close
                                > > enough that I've
                                > > > considered bidding if the price stays low enough.
                                > > Or if you (Dave) win
                                > > > it maybe you'd like to take it on a detour back to
                                > > Ithaca...
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > Just looked at Map Quest - that'd be a bit of a
                                > > detour! :)
                                > >
                                > > So if you're a NYS Force owner, what's your overall
                                > > opinion / experience of
                                > > driving a Force in NYS? Do you drive yours year
                                > > round? (Feel free to reply
                                > > off-list if you don't want to clog up the list with
                                > > this info.)
                                > >
                                > > And finally, how steep are the hills in your area
                                > > around Ithaca? On flat
                                > > > ground, yes, the Force can get up to highway
                                > > speeds just fine. But
                                > > > around me there are some steep hills on local
                                > > roads where, even in power
                                > > > mode, about 30-35mph is all it can muster. But the
                                > > regen sure is fun
                                > > > coming down the other side of the hill :-)
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > Well Ithaca is a bit hilly, and I actually live just
                                > > outside of Ithaca in
                                > > Newfield, NY. There are some hills to get up. Route
                                > > 13 changes to 2 lanes in
                                > > the up hill direction though, so that should
                                > > minimize the pain for anyone
                                > > behind me. The steepest hills I'd probably see is
                                > > getting up to Cornell if I
                                > > get the job I'm interviewing for next Thursday.
                                > > That's in-city driving
                                > > though, so 30-35 would be fine.
                                > >
                                > > Thanks to all that have replied so far. Your
                                > > knowledge and experience is why
                                > > I joined this list, and it is very much appreciated.
                                > > It sounds like unless
                                > > this goes for peanuts that I might want to pass and
                                > > keep looking.
                                > >
                                > > Jim - if the price is low, let's not get in a
                                > > bidding war against each
                                > > other. My eBay ID is GOSENSGO.
                                > >
                                > > Thanks everyone,
                                > > - Dave
                                > > --
                                > > Dave Bush <hockeystatman@...>
                                > >
                                > > There are two seasons in my world - Hockey and
                                > > Construction
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                                > > removed]
                                > >
                                > >
                                >
                                >
                                >__________________________________________________
                                >Do You Yahoo!?
                                >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                >http://mail.yahoo.com
                              • Jim Coate
                                ... I only got the car a couple of months ago (from the same batch the Noel and a few others got theirs), and just got it registered recently. So far I have
                                Message 15 of 20 , Jan 19, 2006
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Dave Bush wrote:
                                  > So if you're a NYS Force owner, what's your overall opinion / experience of
                                  > driving a Force in NYS? Do you drive yours year round?

                                  I only got the car a couple of months ago (from the same batch the Noel
                                  and a few others got theirs), and just got it registered recently. So
                                  far I have found:
                                  * Insurance was weird to get; tomorrow I have an appointment for a
                                  safety inspection so we'll see how that goes in terms of being able to
                                  exempt me from the emissions test
                                  * In the "power" mode it has less performance than a stock Metro with a
                                  3-cylinder engine, at least when climbing hills
                                  * It uses 1.5 to 2.0 Ahrs/mile
                                  * Range is 15-20 miles
                                  * Heater is undersized for the recent blast of just-below-zero
                                  temperatures... I haven't used a thermometer but I'd guess the heater
                                  can add 30 or so degrees to whatever the outside temp is.
                                  * It handles pretty well in the snow... it made it up one of the evil
                                  hills with 1" or 2" of unplowed snow.
                                  * Overall it is fun to drive. It's small size makes it feel faster. And
                                  in a way it is more fun to be on the outside as someone else drives and
                                  it moves silently away. My fiancé is the more regular user of it,
                                  driving it to work each day - and seems to be making a convert of her
                                  :-) And I have a standing invite to go do a show & tell at a local high
                                  school.
                                  * I was pretty lucky in terms of condition: new mirror, wiper blades, a
                                  switch and a fuse were all that needed fixing so far. Although I should
                                  probably check the alignment and such.


                                  > Well Ithaca is a bit hilly, and I actually live just outside of Ithaca in
                                  > Newfield, NY. There are some hills to get up. Route 13 changes to 2 lanes in
                                  > the up hill direction though, so that should minimize the pain for anyone
                                  > behind me. The steepest hills I'd probably see is getting up to Cornell if I
                                  > get the job I'm interviewing for next Thursday. That's in-city driving
                                  > though, so 30-35 would be fine.

                                  Those speeds will help a lot. Although I'm still curious if the '94 has
                                  the same power as a '97.


                                  > Just looked at Map Quest - that'd be a bit of a detour! :)

                                  Oops, I should have looked at a map first.
                                  And I won't be getting into any bidding wars.



                                  --
                                  Jim Coate
                                  1970's Elec-Trak's
                                  1998 Chevy S-10 NiMH BEV
                                  1997 Chevy S-10 NGV Bi-Fuel
                                  http://www.eeevee.com
                                • theoldcars@aol.com
                                  I took a look and have to add the body damage could be worse than what you can see. The pictures do not show the body damage well at all. There is at least
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Jan 19, 2006
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    I took a look and have to add the body damage could be worse than what you
                                    can see. The pictures do not show the body damage well at all. There is at
                                    least 1000 to 2000 dollars in damage to the right quarter, tail lamp and bumper
                                    area. Depending on how hard it hit the bumper and reinforcement there could
                                    be frame and floor damage. If anyone goes and takes a look at it in person.
                                    It would be a good idea to look at the floor and rail for damage.

                                    Rex has really covered a lot of good points. I think it is important to take
                                    into consideration what it cost to build an electric vehicle.

                                    I have seen the newer Solectria years sell for as much as 17,000 to as low
                                    as 4,000. This vehicle is a risky buy and it should not sell for a lot because
                                    of all the unknowns

                                    Don


                                    In a message dated 1/19/2006 5:58:08 PM Pacific Standard Time,
                                    evfinder@... writes:

                                    In the sales that I've tracked a Force in good condition with a good pack
                                    have sold in the range of $9K to $12K. I only tracked one that sold with a
                                    bad pack and that went for around $5K. I expect this to go for under this
                                    amount because it is most likely to need some work to get it going and will
                                    almost certainly need a new pack.

                                    Noel


                                    >From: Rex Allison <ev64bug@...>
                                    >Reply-To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                                    >To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                                    >Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Force on eBay
                                    >Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 12:26:34 -0800 (PST)
                                    >
                                    >Dave,
                                    >There are always exceptions but it seems for Lead Acid
                                    >Force EVs in perfect working condition with brand new
                                    >batteries sell in this sort of range:
                                    >Force Sedans 12-16k
                                    >Force Hatchbacks 9-11k (smaller vehicle and older
                                    >parts)
                                    >
                                    >There isn't any "Blue Book" information on purchasing
                                    >an EV but I sort of have my own guidelines when
                                    >looking at a used EV.
                                    >
                                    >First, most EVs are really conversions (Solectrias
                                    >being the probablly the most professional of this
                                    >group) so you want to compare the price of buying the
                                    >components and converting the vehicle yourself.
                                    >
                                    >For a Force these are very rough estimates:
                                    >Motor $2k
                                    >Controller $5k
                                    >Transaxle $2k
                                    >Charger $2k
                                    >DC-DC $1k
                                    >Metering $0.5k
                                    >Battery Boxes $0.5k
                                    >Potbox + Misc. $0.5k
                                    >=========================
                                    >Total $13.5k
                                    >
                                    >Electro Automotive kit is $13.5k
                                    >
                                    >Plus:
                                    >Batteries $2k
                                    >Good Condition Donar $2k
                                    >
                                    >So starting from scratch would be $17.5k
                                    >plus your own time.
                                    >
                                    >One observation I've made is that most used EVs that
                                    >are in perfect running condition sell for
                                    >approximately the cost of the components. Anything
                                    >below this is what I consider a deal assuming the
                                    >vehicle meets your needs. Some people just want their
                                    >money back so they can convert another car since the
                                    >learning experience was a reward in itself.
                                    >
                                    >So if you are just the batteries need replacing knock
                                    >off $2k.
                                    >
                                    >My other observation is that for non-running vehicles
                                    >with questionable components seem to sell for about
                                    >half as much as running vehicles so anything below
                                    >this I consider a deal. So lets say the vehicle in
                                    >question would sell for $9k - $2k for batteries = $7k,
                                    >and take half of that $3.5k.
                                    >
                                    >At the same time their seem to be a lower limit of $2k
                                    >- $3k for used EVs this seems to be more from the fact
                                    >that their is some value in the chassis and the
                                    >battery boxes and mounting all the components.
                                    >
                                    >When you get into the lower price range you are now
                                    >getting into a project car and you need to ask
                                    >yourself if you have the time and the know-how to get
                                    >the vehicle up and running or is it going to sit in
                                    >the driveway until you sell it.
                                    >
                                    >This of course is just my $0.00002k.
                                    >
                                    >Rex
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >--- Dave Bush <hockeystatman@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > > On 1/19/06, Jim Coate <jbc@...> wrote:
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Disclaimer: I'm near Chatham, NY so this is close
                                    > > enough that I've
                                    > > > considered bidding if the price stays low enough.
                                    > > Or if you (Dave) win
                                    > > > it maybe you'd like to take it on a detour back to
                                    > > Ithaca...
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > Just looked at Map Quest - that'd be a bit of a
                                    > > detour! :)
                                    > >
                                    > > So if you're a NYS Force owner, what's your overall
                                    > > opinion / experience of
                                    > > driving a Force in NYS? Do you drive yours year
                                    > > round? (Feel free to reply
                                    > > off-list if you don't want to clog up the list with
                                    > > this info.)
                                    > >
                                    > > And finally, how steep are the hills in your area
                                    > > around Ithaca? On flat
                                    > > > ground, yes, the Force can get up to highway
                                    > > speeds just fine. But
                                    > > > around me there are some steep hills on local
                                    > > roads where, even in power
                                    > > > mode, about 30-35mph is all it can muster. But the
                                    > > regen sure is fun
                                    > > > coming down the other side of the hill :-)
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > Well Ithaca is a bit hilly, and I actually live just
                                    > > outside of Ithaca in
                                    > > Newfield, NY. There are some hills to get up. Route
                                    > > 13 changes to 2 lanes in
                                    > > the up hill direction though, so that should
                                    > > minimize the pain for anyone
                                    > > behind me. The steepest hills I'd probably see is
                                    > > getting up to Cornell if I
                                    > > get the job I'm interviewing for next Thursday.
                                    > > That's in-city driving
                                    > > though, so 30-35 would be fine.
                                    > >
                                    > > Thanks to all that have replied so far. Your
                                    > > knowledge and experience is why
                                    > > I joined this list, and it is very much appreciated.
                                    > > It sounds like unless
                                    > > this goes for peanuts that I might want to pass and
                                    > > keep looking.
                                    > >
                                    > > Jim - if the price is low, let's not get in a
                                    > > bidding war against each
                                    > > other. My eBay ID is GOSENSGO.
                                    > >
                                    > > Thanks everyone,
                                    > > - Dave
                                    > > --
                                    > > Dave Bush <hockeystatman@...>
                                    > >
                                    > > There are two seasons in my world - Hockey and
                                    > > Construction
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                                    > > removed]
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    >
                                    >
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                                    >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Jim Coate
                                    and the auction has been ended early (likely sold outside of eBay), so we ll never know what price it would have brought... hopefully the new owner says
                                    Message 17 of 20 , Jan 19, 2006
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      and the auction has been ended early (likely sold outside of eBay), so
                                      we'll never know what price it would have brought... hopefully the new
                                      owner says 'hello' soon!




                                      --
                                      Jim Coate
                                      1970's Elec-Trak's
                                      1998 Chevy S-10 NiMH BEV
                                      1997 Chevy S-10 NGV Bi-Fuel
                                      http://www.eeevee.com
                                    • Dave Bush
                                      ... My wife will be relieved. :) We have quite different taste in cars. I like small, highly efficient vehicles, and she wants a Honda Pilot. The joke about
                                      Message 18 of 20 , Jan 20, 2006
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        On 1/19/06, Jim Coate <jbc@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > and the auction has been ended early (likely sold outside of eBay), so
                                        > we'll never know what price it would have brought... hopefully the new
                                        > owner says 'hello' soon!


                                        My wife will be relieved. :)

                                        We have quite different taste in cars. I like small, highly efficient
                                        vehicles, and she wants a Honda Pilot. The joke about the cars I like
                                        fitting in the back of the land barges she likes fly regularly.

                                        Back to lurking and looking I guess.

                                        --
                                        Dave Bush <hockeystatman@...>

                                        There are two seasons in my world - Hockey and Construction


                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • Ed Garcia
                                        Attached is a picture of the orginal Honda Pilot that was manufactured in 1989 and 1990 only. That s right, the marque was used for an ATV before it became an
                                        Message 19 of 20 , Jan 20, 2006
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Attached is a picture of the orginal Honda Pilot that was manufactured in 1989 and 1990 only. That's right, the marque was used for an ATV before it became an SUV. Depending on which Pilot she likes, maybe you guys are not so far apart after all!

                                          Ed Garcia
                                          2001 Solectria force and a gas guzzling Ford F150

                                          Dave Bush <hockeystatman@...> wrote:
                                          On 1/19/06, Jim Coate <jbc@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > and the auction has been ended early (likely sold outside of eBay), so
                                          > we'll never know what price it would have brought... hopefully the new
                                          > owner says 'hello' soon!


                                          My wife will be relieved. :)

                                          We have quite different taste in cars. I like small, highly efficient
                                          vehicles, and she wants a Honda Pilot. The joke about the cars I like
                                          fitting in the back of the land barges she likes fly regularly.

                                          Back to lurking and looking I guess.

                                          --
                                          Dave Bush <hockeystatman@...>

                                          There are two seasons in my world - Hockey and Construction


                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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                                        • Noel P. Luneau
                                          1997 Force for sale on eBay. It s starting at $9,500. See this link: http://tinyurl.com/fwz69 Noel Luneau [Non-text portions of this message have been
                                          Message 20 of 20 , Feb 28, 2006
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            1997 Force for sale on eBay. It's starting at $9,500.

                                            See this link: http://tinyurl.com/fwz69

                                            Noel Luneau


                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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