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Batteries (was: Force Valuation, et. al.)

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  • David Roden (Akron OH USA)
    ... Shame on your vendor for not advising you properly. I think you need a better dealer. ... I tried group 24 East Penn Deka Dominators (these are gel
    Message 1 of 4 , Mar 22 12:45 PM
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      On 22 Mar 2002 at 9:45, Tracy, Matt wrote:

      > I picked the 70 ah over the 55 ah. I
      > now know that the 70 ah are starter batteries, and the 55's are deep cycle.

      Shame on your vendor for not advising you properly. I think you need a
      better dealer.

      > I now have ordered some group 24 (bigger than 22NF, smaller than 27's which
      > are the biggest that fit in the boxes) 75 ah DEEP CYCLE AGM's.

      I tried group 24 East Penn Deka Dominators (these are gel batteries, as
      recommended by Solectria, not AGM type) in my '91 Force, and it struggled to
      get over 30 miles of range. This figures, because their capacity at 75 amps
      is only 33 amp hours. Group 24 is really too small for a Force.

      I think you will be more satisfied with group 27s (Deka: 40 amp hours at 75
      amps). The range will be that much better. And even if you don't need that
      much range, group 27 batteries will last longer because you will be using
      less of their capacity on each cycle.

      One more thing. Be careful that the "AGM" batteries your vendor sells you
      are not actually maintenance-free flooded batteries. These are sometimes
      sold as combination deep cycle / starting batteries, and some dealers
      apparently don't know the difference because AGM, which means Absorbed Glass
      Mat, is sometimes incorrectly used to refer to ~any~ non-waterable battery.
      Such "combination" batteries will not last long in an EV application.


      David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
      1991 Solectria Force 144vac
      1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
      1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
      1974 Avco New Idea 36vdc
      = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
      Thou shalt not send me any thing which says unto thee, "send this to all
      thou knowest." Neither shalt thou send me any spam, lest I smite thee.
      = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
    • Tom Hudson
      ... FYI, we have group 24 Deka Dominators in our E-10, and were lucky to get 35Ah out of them when they were new. They re coming up on two years old now and
      Message 2 of 4 , Mar 22 2:45 PM
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        > I tried group 24 East Penn Deka Dominators (these are gel batteries, as
        > recommended by Solectria, not AGM type) in my '91 Force, and it
        > struggled to
        > get over 30 miles of range. This figures, because their capacity
        > at 75 amps
        > is only 33 amp hours. Group 24 is really too small for a Force.

        FYI, we have group 24 Deka Dominators in our E-10, and were lucky to get
        35Ah out of them when they were new. They're coming up on two years old now
        and I'm seeing a voltage drop at fairly low Ah consumption. I picked up a
        battery load tester and will probably do a detailed battery evaluation this
        summer.

        I have a sneaking suspicion that the charger in the E-10 is using too high a
        finish voltage, even though I've never messed with it -- The truck
        originally had three strings of 12 batteries in it (Hawkers, I think) but
        was later changed to two strings of group 24's and I wonder if they ever
        reprogrammed the charger for the different batteries. The reason I'm
        wondering is because I remember looking at the batter charger output when I
        first got the truck and I noticed what I thought was a pretty high finish
        voltage.

        David, do you know if the Hawkers had a higher finish voltage than the
        Dekas/Sonnenscheins?

        If it's too high, I suspect the charger could be doing some damage.

        -Tom
      • David Roden (Akron OH USA)
        ... Yikes! Yes, much higher, about 14.8 to 15.0 volts per module. That s way too high for the Dominators, which should finish at about 14.3, tops. The
        Message 3 of 4 , Mar 22 8:54 PM
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          On 22 Mar 2002 at 16:45, Tom Hudson wrote:

          > David, do you know if the Hawkers had a higher finish voltage than the
          > Dekas/Sonnenscheins?
          >
          > If it's too high, I suspect the charger could be doing some damage.
          >

          Yikes! Yes, much higher, about 14.8 to 15.0 volts per module. That's way
          too high for the Dominators, which should finish at about 14.3, tops. The
          Hawkers have a very different chemistry.

          My car came with a charger programmed for Hawkers. When I was using the
          Dominators, I charged with it once. I came out to the garage late in the
          charge cycle, and heard several batteries venting (whistling). I never used
          that charger again.

          Venting is bad news. Not only does it indicate a strenuous overcharge, it
          also means that your batteries are also losing irreplaceable water. In this
          case, the high finish voltage meant a high finish current; the batteries
          were gassing strongly. They had to vent to release pressure, because their
          (relatively feeble) recombination catalyst couldn't begin keep up.


          David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
          1991 Solectria Force 144vac
          1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
          1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
          1974 Avco New Idea 36vdc
          = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
          Thou shalt not send me any thing which says unto thee, "send this to all
          thou knowest." Neither shalt thou send me any spam, lest I smite thee.
          = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
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