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Re: Overhaul Motor recommendations

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  • ldr214
    Wolf thanks for the nice pictures. What are the chances you could repair a sensor that has had physical contact between the disk the sensor? Sensor now not
    Message 1 of 29 , Jun 30, 2008
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      Wolf thanks for the nice pictures.

      What are the chances you could repair a sensor that has had physical
      contact between the disk the sensor? Sensor now not working with a
      good disk. I think there are at least a few of them out there.

      Interesting how different the same motor looks when you remove the
      cooling fan and shroud, and mount a plate on the end instead. Does the
      truck configuration have any active cooling for the motors?

      Mike
      97 Force

      --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "Wolf" <wolf@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > I was refering to the ACgtx20 motors:
      > http://www.wolftronix.com/E10/images/P4070246.jpg
      > http://www.wolftronix.com/E10/images/P4070231.jpg
      >
      > Wolf
      > *wags his tail*
      > www.wolftronix.com
      >
      > > Solectria had a lot of different suppliers and changed many things as
      > > the cars evolved. It would be wise for all of us to post specifics
      > > when we have a problem or comment. Even amoung the rather similiar 96
      > > and up Force productiuon there are still variations, such as nicad,
      > > chargers, avcon inlets and so on.
      > >
      > > Wolf which motor are you referring to in your post? I don't know if
      > > the truck used the same one as in the 97 Force (ACgtx20).
      > >
      > > Kruspan has some support for disks and sensors.
      > >
      > > Mike
      > > 97
      > > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "Wolf" <wolf@> wrote:
      > >>
      > >>
      > >> Our motors don't have hall effect sensors in them, they are quadature
      > >> optical encoders. The sensors is used for speed and direction of the
      > >> rotor. So long as it can "see" the encoder disc, it will work.
      > >>
      > >> It does not need to be alligned with any actual point on the disc,
      > > or the
      > >> housing. It just need to be able to detect the lines on the encoder
      > > disc.
      > >>
      > >> There are LEDs on the sensor board that light up when it can see the
      > > disc.
      > >>
      > >> Since our motors are AC induction, they don't have magenets in them,
      > >> comutation is simple, you just need to keep a high slip ratio
      > > between the
      > >> stator and the rotor.
      > >>
      > >> If we had brushless DC motors then you would need to have hall effect
      > >> sensors to detect where the rotor magnets where in relation to the
      > > stator
      > >> coils to comutate the motor.
      > >>
      > >> For more info on AC induction motors see:
      > >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induction_motor
      > >>
      > >> Our rotor type:
      > >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squirrel-cage_rotor
      > >>
      > >> Our controllers are variable frequency amplitude drives:
      > >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variable-frequency_drive
      > >>
      > >> Wolf
      > >> *wags his tail*
      > >> www.wolftronix.com
      > >>
      > >> > Location of Hall sensors is important in the sense that they
      > > effect the
      > >> > electronic commutation, or when a certain phase is turned on. A few
      > >> > degrees error in location might not be a problem. Any comment?
      > >> > Bill s
      > >> >
      > >> >
      > >> > ----- Original Message ----
      > >> > From: Charles Bliss <cbliss@>
      > >> > To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
      > >> > Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2008 4:36:22 PM
      > >> > Subject: [solectria_ev] Overhaul Motor recommendations
      > >> >
      > >> >
      > >> > I pulled the Brushless (servo)motor out of my 93 Solectria
      Force. The
      > >> > controller went South so I decided to check out the motor. When
      > > turning
      > >> > the
      > >> > shaft, it sounded like something was dragging or bad bearings.
      When I
      > >> > pulled the cover, it smelled bad but the winding didn't look
      > > burned. The
      > >> > motor seemed to be running fine just before the controller
      opened up.
      > >> >
      > >> > I want to have the motor checked out and serviced. I am looking for
      > >> > recommendations of who / where to send it.
      > >> >
      > >> > I also noticed that the hall effect sensor was not lined up
      with some
      > >> > marks
      > >> > on the casing. Does anyone know if the timing is critical and if
      > > so, how
      > >> > to set it up correctly.
      > >> >
      > >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >> >
      > >> >
      > >> >
      > >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >> >
      > >> >
      > >>
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
    • Jay Grossman
      Wolf, As an aside can you tell me about the 3 wheel solar car you worked on. EVA/DC has restored the MIT Aztec solar car a 94 competitor in the Tour de Sol
      Message 2 of 29 , Jul 1, 2008
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        Wolf,
        As an aside can you tell me about the 3 wheel solar car you worked on. EVA/DC has restored the MIT Aztec solar car a '94 competitor in the Tour de Sol and I wonder if you have any knowledge about this vehicle. Your vehicle description sounds similar.
        Jay H Grossman


        ----- Original Message ----
        From: Wolf <wolf@...>
        To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Monday, June 30, 2008 8:12:47 PM
        Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Re: Overhaul Motor recommendations



        I just remembered why we where adjusting the sensor... :)

        Our solar car had 3 wheels on it, the two in the front steered, and the
        one in the back was powered by the motor.

        When they made the motor mount for the motor, they placed it infront of
        the wheel, and it was chain drive to the rear wheel, the other side had he
        brake caliper and brake disc.

        When they did this they choose to place the output shaft on the right side
        of the car (right side drive).

        When I wired up the car according to the manual, when the switch was in
        the "forward" position our car went backwards.

        No big deal, we just flipped the wiring on the switch, and all was good...

        However our performance numbers did not match what was expected of the
        motor. So we called up Solectria, and they helped trouble shoot the
        problem. Then they found out that the motor was mounted backwards.

        The motor sensors where actuly slightly advanced to account for the
        controller's feedback lag, so the motor did actuly have a perfered forward
        direction.

        We had to adjust the circuit board with the hall sensors on it, to make
        the motor more efficent in our "forward" direction, it was like 3 or 4 arc
        seconds, but it made a big difference in motor efficency. :)

        Wolf
        *wags his tail*
        www.wolftronix. com

        >
        > There is a procdure that lines up the hall sensors. I remember doing it
        > once on a solectria 5HP BLDC motor on a solar car...
        >
        > This will find all the stator coils (poles):
        >
        > It involved applying a low voltage, like 12 volts to one coil thru a
        > resistor to limit the current to 1 or so amp, the rotor will cog to line
        > up the magnet with the stator. Then you mark the shaft relation to the
        > housing. Then turn the motor by hand till it snaps to the next cog, then
        > using the same mark on the rotor you place another mark on the housing.
        > Keep rotating and marking till you over lap an exsiting one.
        >
        > Then reverse the voltage on the same coil and repeate the procedure.
        >
        > Then hook up the low voltage to the next coil. (use a different color
        > mark)
        >
        > Repeate the same process for all the coils (some coils will yeild the same
        > results, these are the ones that can be connected in series or parallel,
        > if you have 6 wires exposed from the motor).
        >
        > The three sensors should line up with three consecutive marks you made on
        > the housing.
        >
        > Procedure to find the magnets N/S magnets on the rotor.
        >
        > Apply the low voltage to one of the coils, the rotor will cog an line up
        > with a one of the marks you made on the housing. Circle the mark on the
        > housing. Then rotate the motor shaft by hand to the next cog. Transfer the
        > circled mark to the shaft. Repeat this till the marks over lap. The marks
        > on the shaft will be the locations of all of one type of magnets (North or
        > South, by definition, if the motor coils are marked + and - and you have
        > the positive voltage connected ot the + terminal they will be the North
        > magnets).
        >
        > Reverse the voltage and repeate the procedure, this will find the opposite
        > poles.
        >
        > When you are done, you should know where all the N/S magnets are, and you
        > can align the sense magent to the rotor, it should have the same number of
        > poles as the rotor.
        >
        > Note: this is from memory, of something we did about 10 years ago to
        > confirm that our motor was adjusted right... I do remember a division by
        > three might be needed for the magnet locations... It should make sence
        > when all the marks are on the rotor (shaft) and the stator (housing).
        >
        > Hope this helps. :)
        >
        > Wolf
        > *wags his tail*
        > www.wolftronix. com
        >
        >> Charles Bliss:
        >>
        >> To recap:? Your brushless DC motor has a permanent magnet rotor.
        >> Using the analogy of a clock face you have:
        >> S pole (12:00 - 3:00)
        >> N pole (3:00 - 6:00)
        >> S pole (6:00 - 9:00)
        >> N pole (9:00 - 12:00)
        >>
        >> About how many degrees is the interpole gap at 12:00, 3:00, 6:00 and
        >> 9:00?
        >>
        >> Also, when you look at the stator on-end, how many pole teeth are there
        >> in
        >> the stator metal?
        >>
        >> Sincerely,
        >>
        >> Gary Carlson
        >> gjc0@...
        >>
        >>
        >> -----Original Message-----
        >> From: Charles Bliss <cbliss@cbliss. com>
        >> To: solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com
        >> Sent: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 7:54 am
        >> Subject: RE: [solectria_ev] Re: Overhaul Motor recommendations
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >> I am pretty sure that I need to modify or replace the sensors. At the
        >> minimum, all the wires from the 3 hall effect sensors are brought to the
        >> controller in the original. In the new controller, there are only 6
        >> leads
        >> required, +/- supply and the three phases. The original sensor is a mass
        >> of
        >> machined epoxy. The magnet is four pole 2N, 2S and the sensor looks like
        >> 30
        >> deg separation of the three pickups.
        >>
        >> Any information / help will be appreciated.
        >>
        >> From: solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com]
        >> On
        >> Behalf Of ldr214
        >> Sent: Monday, June 30, 2008 7:41 AM
        >> To: solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com
        >> Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: Overhaul Motor recommendations
        >>
        >> Solectria had a lot of different suppliers and changed many things as
        >> the cars evolved. It would be wise for all of us to post specifics
        >> when we have a problem or comment. Even amoung the rather similiar 96
        >> and up Force productiuon there are still variations, such as nicad,
        >> chargers, avcon inlets and so on.
        >>
        >> Wolf which motor are you referring to in your post? I don't know if
        >> the truck used the same one as in the 97 Force (ACgtx20).
        >>
        >> Kruspan has some support for disks and sensors.
        >>
        >> Mike
        >> 97
        >>
        >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >>
        >>
        >
        >






        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Gerard (Gary) Carlson
        Greetings EVers: I am too poor to buy Lithium Ions for my 1992 Solectria Force. At least I can read and dream.? Here is a link to an interesting article:
        Message 3 of 29 , Jul 1, 2008
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          Greetings EVers:

          I am too poor to buy Lithium Ions for my 1992 Solectria Force.
          At least I can read and dream.? Here is a link to an interesting article:

          http://www.automotivedesignline.com/howto/powertrain/208801379

          Sincerely,

          Gary?Carlson

          _


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Wolf
          My motors came like this: http://www.wolftronix.com/E10/images/P3250141.jpg They look like this when installed:
          Message 4 of 29 , Jul 1, 2008
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            My motors came like this:
            http://www.wolftronix.com/E10/images/P3250141.jpg

            They look like this when installed:
            http://www.wolftronix.com/E10/images/P4280346.jpg

            They have no active cooling, they just sit out in the open, so they
            probably get lots of air flow when moving down the road.

            They are also bolted to a big aluminium belt box, so that helps too. :)

            After driving back from work, they are typicly warm, but not so warm you
            can't touch them (you would be able to keep your hand on them for a long
            time with out getting burned).

            Both my controllers never get above room temperature, I have never seen
            the cooling fans ever come on either.

            My typical drive is 11 miles, in economy mode, under 50 MPH, on country
            roads. :)

            The entire writeup for truck the repair is here:
            http://www.wolftronix.com/E10

            Sensors can be repaired, you just need to replace the IR LED and photo
            diode unit.

            Wolf
            *wags his tail*
            www.wolftronix.com

            > Wolf thanks for the nice pictures.
            >
            > What are the chances you could repair a sensor that has had physical
            > contact between the disk the sensor? Sensor now not working with a
            > good disk. I think there are at least a few of them out there.
            >
            > Interesting how different the same motor looks when you remove the
            > cooling fan and shroud, and mount a plate on the end instead. Does the
            > truck configuration have any active cooling for the motors?
            >
            > Mike
            > 97 Force
            >
            > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "Wolf" <wolf@...> wrote:
            >>
            >>
            >> I was refering to the ACgtx20 motors:
            >> http://www.wolftronix.com/E10/images/P4070246.jpg
            >> http://www.wolftronix.com/E10/images/P4070231.jpg
            >>
            >> Wolf
            >> *wags his tail*
            >> www.wolftronix.com
            >>
            >> > Solectria had a lot of different suppliers and changed many things as
            >> > the cars evolved. It would be wise for all of us to post specifics
            >> > when we have a problem or comment. Even amoung the rather similiar 96
            >> > and up Force productiuon there are still variations, such as nicad,
            >> > chargers, avcon inlets and so on.
            >> >
            >> > Wolf which motor are you referring to in your post? I don't know if
            >> > the truck used the same one as in the 97 Force (ACgtx20).
            >> >
            >> > Kruspan has some support for disks and sensors.
            >> >
            >> > Mike
            >> > 97
            >> > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "Wolf" <wolf@> wrote:
            >> >>
            >> >>
            >> >> Our motors don't have hall effect sensors in them, they are quadature
            >> >> optical encoders. The sensors is used for speed and direction of the
            >> >> rotor. So long as it can "see" the encoder disc, it will work.
            >> >>
            >> >> It does not need to be alligned with any actual point on the disc,
            >> > or the
            >> >> housing. It just need to be able to detect the lines on the encoder
            >> > disc.
            >> >>
            >> >> There are LEDs on the sensor board that light up when it can see the
            >> > disc.
            >> >>
            >> >> Since our motors are AC induction, they don't have magenets in them,
            >> >> comutation is simple, you just need to keep a high slip ratio
            >> > between the
            >> >> stator and the rotor.
            >> >>
            >> >> If we had brushless DC motors then you would need to have hall effect
            >> >> sensors to detect where the rotor magnets where in relation to the
            >> > stator
            >> >> coils to comutate the motor.
            >> >>
            >> >> For more info on AC induction motors see:
            >> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induction_motor
            >> >>
            >> >> Our rotor type:
            >> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squirrel-cage_rotor
            >> >>
            >> >> Our controllers are variable frequency amplitude drives:
            >> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variable-frequency_drive
            >> >>
            >> >> Wolf
            >> >> *wags his tail*
            >> >> www.wolftronix.com
            >> >>
            >> >> > Location of Hall sensors is important in the sense that they
            >> > effect the
            >> >> > electronic commutation, or when a certain phase is turned on. A few
            >> >> > degrees error in location might not be a problem. Any comment?
            >> >> > Bill s
            >> >> >
            >> >> >
            >> >> > ----- Original Message ----
            >> >> > From: Charles Bliss <cbliss@>
            >> >> > To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
            >> >> > Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2008 4:36:22 PM
            >> >> > Subject: [solectria_ev] Overhaul Motor recommendations
            >> >> >
            >> >> >
            >> >> > I pulled the Brushless (servo)motor out of my 93 Solectria
            > Force. The
            >> >> > controller went South so I decided to check out the motor. When
            >> > turning
            >> >> > the
            >> >> > shaft, it sounded like something was dragging or bad bearings.
            > When I
            >> >> > pulled the cover, it smelled bad but the winding didn't look
            >> > burned. The
            >> >> > motor seemed to be running fine just before the controller
            > opened up.
            >> >> >
            >> >> > I want to have the motor checked out and serviced. I am looking for
            >> >> > recommendations of who / where to send it.
            >> >> >
            >> >> > I also noticed that the hall effect sensor was not lined up
            > with some
            >> >> > marks
            >> >> > on the casing. Does anyone know if the timing is critical and if
            >> > so, how
            >> >> > to set it up correctly.
            >> >> >
            >> >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >> >> >
            >> >> >
            >> >> >
            >> >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >> >> >
            >> >> >
            >> >>
            >> >
            >> >
            >> >
            >>
            >
            >
            >
          • Wolf
            I went to Columbus North High School, which is a vocational highschool in Columbus Indiana. I helped build Solar Stealth 1, 2, and 3... and provided support
            Message 5 of 29 , Jul 1, 2008
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              I went to Columbus North High School, which is a vocational highschool in
              Columbus Indiana.

              I helped build Solar Stealth 1, 2, and 3... and provided support and parts
              for 4. :)

              We raced in the Dell Winston Solar Challenge, and once in the Tour de Sol
              (shipping for the car over to australia was the prize for winning the
              Solar Challenge).

              The Solectria BLDC motor powered the first and second car.

              Then we switched to a New Generation Hub Motor which is still being used
              today:

              Here is the 4th version of the car (althow the number on the car
              incremented each year, this was the 4th chassis), with the New Gen motor:
              http://blog.wired.com/cars/2007/07/green-flag-drop.html

              The New Gen motor actuly had an adjustable airgap between the rotor and
              the stator, so I built them a little controller for to maximize the RPM by
              adjusting the gap:
              http://www.wolftronix.com/gap

              Link to the race:
              http://www.winstonsolar.org

              There archives only go back to 2003:
              http://www.winstonsolar.org/challenge/teams2003.shtml

              I was on the team 96, 97, 98, and helping in 99 (I was going to collage
              then).

              2003 was the last year the High School had a team (my youngest brother was
              team captin, so it started with me, and ended with my brother), the car is
              now with a church youth group that is restoring it, when I visit Columbus,
              I will stop by and help them out. :)

              A google search turned up the version 3 car:
              http://bp2.blogger.com/_zE_78rEbbkc/RfdZAVxsRVI/AAAAAAAABdQ/p9vNR9TwRbs/s1600-h/9+-+Solar+Stealth.jpg

              I can't find any on-line pics of the early versions of the car, it was 10+
              years ago, digital cameras where quite rare...

              Wolf
              *wags his tail*
              www.wolftronix.com

              > Wolf,
              > As an aside can you tell me about the 3 wheel solar car you worked on.
              > EVA/DC has restored the MIT Aztec solar car a '94 competitor in the Tour
              > de Sol and I wonder if you have any knowledge about this vehicle. Your
              > vehicle description sounds similar.
              > Jay H Grossman
              >
              >
              > ----- Original Message ----
              > From: Wolf <wolf@...>
              > To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Monday, June 30, 2008 8:12:47 PM
              > Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Re: Overhaul Motor recommendations
              >
              >
              >
              > I just remembered why we where adjusting the sensor... :)
              >
              > Our solar car had 3 wheels on it, the two in the front steered, and the
              > one in the back was powered by the motor.
              >
              > When they made the motor mount for the motor, they placed it infront of
              > the wheel, and it was chain drive to the rear wheel, the other side had he
              > brake caliper and brake disc.
              >
              > When they did this they choose to place the output shaft on the right side
              > of the car (right side drive).
              >
              > When I wired up the car according to the manual, when the switch was in
              > the "forward" position our car went backwards.
              >
              > No big deal, we just flipped the wiring on the switch, and all was good...
              >
              > However our performance numbers did not match what was expected of the
              > motor. So we called up Solectria, and they helped trouble shoot the
              > problem. Then they found out that the motor was mounted backwards.
              >
              > The motor sensors where actuly slightly advanced to account for the
              > controller's feedback lag, so the motor did actuly have a perfered forward
              > direction.
              >
              > We had to adjust the circuit board with the hall sensors on it, to make
              > the motor more efficent in our "forward" direction, it was like 3 or 4 arc
              > seconds, but it made a big difference in motor efficency. :)
              >
              > Wolf
              > *wags his tail*
              > www.wolftronix. com
              >
              >>
              >> There is a procdure that lines up the hall sensors. I remember doing it
              >> once on a solectria 5HP BLDC motor on a solar car...
              >>
              >> This will find all the stator coils (poles):
              >>
              >> It involved applying a low voltage, like 12 volts to one coil thru a
              >> resistor to limit the current to 1 or so amp, the rotor will cog to line
              >> up the magnet with the stator. Then you mark the shaft relation to the
              >> housing. Then turn the motor by hand till it snaps to the next cog, then
              >> using the same mark on the rotor you place another mark on the housing.
              >> Keep rotating and marking till you over lap an exsiting one.
              >>
              >> Then reverse the voltage on the same coil and repeate the procedure.
              >>
              >> Then hook up the low voltage to the next coil. (use a different color
              >> mark)
              >>
              >> Repeate the same process for all the coils (some coils will yeild the
              >> same
              >> results, these are the ones that can be connected in series or parallel,
              >> if you have 6 wires exposed from the motor).
              >>
              >> The three sensors should line up with three consecutive marks you made
              >> on
              >> the housing.
              >>
              >> Procedure to find the magnets N/S magnets on the rotor.
              >>
              >> Apply the low voltage to one of the coils, the rotor will cog an line up
              >> with a one of the marks you made on the housing. Circle the mark on the
              >> housing. Then rotate the motor shaft by hand to the next cog. Transfer
              >> the
              >> circled mark to the shaft. Repeat this till the marks over lap. The
              >> marks
              >> on the shaft will be the locations of all of one type of magnets (North
              >> or
              >> South, by definition, if the motor coils are marked + and - and you have
              >> the positive voltage connected ot the + terminal they will be the North
              >> magnets).
              >>
              >> Reverse the voltage and repeate the procedure, this will find the
              >> opposite
              >> poles.
              >>
              >> When you are done, you should know where all the N/S magnets are, and
              >> you
              >> can align the sense magent to the rotor, it should have the same number
              >> of
              >> poles as the rotor.
              >>
              >> Note: this is from memory, of something we did about 10 years ago to
              >> confirm that our motor was adjusted right... I do remember a division by
              >> three might be needed for the magnet locations... It should make sence
              >> when all the marks are on the rotor (shaft) and the stator (housing).
              >>
              >> Hope this helps. :)
              >>
              >> Wolf
              >> *wags his tail*
              >> www.wolftronix. com
              >>
              >>> Charles Bliss:
              >>>
              >>> To recap:? Your brushless DC motor has a permanent magnet rotor.
              >>> Using the analogy of a clock face you have:
              >>> S pole (12:00 - 3:00)
              >>> N pole (3:00 - 6:00)
              >>> S pole (6:00 - 9:00)
              >>> N pole (9:00 - 12:00)
              >>>
              >>> About how many degrees is the interpole gap at 12:00, 3:00, 6:00 and
              >>> 9:00?
              >>>
              >>> Also, when you look at the stator on-end, how many pole teeth are there
              >>> in
              >>> the stator metal?
              >>>
              >>> Sincerely,
              >>>
              >>> Gary Carlson
              >>> gjc0@...
              >>>
              >>>
              >>> -----Original Message-----
              >>> From: Charles Bliss <cbliss@cbliss. com>
              >>> To: solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com
              >>> Sent: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 7:54 am
              >>> Subject: RE: [solectria_ev] Re: Overhaul Motor recommendations
              >>>
              >>>
              >>>
              >>>
              >>>
              >>>
              >>> I am pretty sure that I need to modify or replace the sensors. At the
              >>> minimum, all the wires from the 3 hall effect sensors are brought to
              >>> the
              >>> controller in the original. In the new controller, there are only 6
              >>> leads
              >>> required, +/- supply and the three phases. The original sensor is a
              >>> mass
              >>> of
              >>> machined epoxy. The magnet is four pole 2N, 2S and the sensor looks
              >>> like
              >>> 30
              >>> deg separation of the three pickups.
              >>>
              >>> Any information / help will be appreciated.
              >>>
              >>> From: solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:solectria_ev@ yahoogroups.
              >>> com]
              >>> On
              >>> Behalf Of ldr214
              >>> Sent: Monday, June 30, 2008 7:41 AM
              >>> To: solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com
              >>> Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: Overhaul Motor recommendations
              >>>
              >>> Solectria had a lot of different suppliers and changed many things as
              >>> the cars evolved. It would be wise for all of us to post specifics
              >>> when we have a problem or comment. Even amoung the rather similiar 96
              >>> and up Force productiuon there are still variations, such as nicad,
              >>> chargers, avcon inlets and so on.
              >>>
              >>> Wolf which motor are you referring to in your post? I don't know if
              >>> the truck used the same one as in the 97 Force (ACgtx20).
              >>>
              >>> Kruspan has some support for disks and sensors.
              >>>
              >>> Mike
              >>> 97
              >>>
              >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >>>
              >>>
              >>>
              >>>
              >>>
              >>>
              >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >>>
              >>>
              >>
              >>
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
            • Jay Grossman
              Wolf, Thanks for the info. Much more impressive when this is done by high school students as opposed to MIT engineering students. Although the age difference
              Message 6 of 29 , Jul 2, 2008
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                Wolf,
                Thanks for the info.
                Much more impressive when this is done by high school students as opposed to MIT engineering students. Although the age difference is not that great there must have been a vast difference in the available resources and support.
                Jay H Grossman 



                ----- Original Message ----
                From: Wolf <wolf@...>
                To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Tuesday, July 1, 2008 8:44:45 PM
                Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Re: Overhaul Motor recommendations



                I went to Columbus North High School, which is a vocational highschool in
                Columbus Indiana.

                I helped build Solar Stealth 1, 2, and 3... and provided support and parts
                for 4. :)

                We raced in the Dell Winston Solar Challenge, and once in the Tour de Sol
                (shipping for the car over to australia was the prize for winning the
                Solar Challenge).

                The Solectria BLDC motor powered the first and second car.

                Then we switched to a New Generation Hub Motor which is still being used
                today:

                Here is the 4th version of the car (althow the number on the car
                incremented each year, this was the 4th chassis), with the New Gen motor:
                http://blog. wired.com/ cars/2007/ 07/green- flag-drop. html

                The New Gen motor actuly had an adjustable airgap between the rotor and
                the stator, so I built them a little controller for to maximize the RPM by
                adjusting the gap:
                http://www.wolftron ix.com/gap

                Link to the race:
                http://www.winstons olar.org

                There archives only go back to 2003:
                http://www.winstons olar.org/ challenge/ teams2003. shtml

                I was on the team 96, 97, 98, and helping in 99 (I was going to collage
                then).

                2003 was the last year the High School had a team (my youngest brother was
                team captin, so it started with me, and ended with my brother), the car is
                now with a church youth group that is restoring it, when I visit Columbus,
                I will stop by and help them out. :)

                A google search turned up the version 3 car:
                http://bp2.blogger. com/_zE_78rEbbkc /RfdZAVxsRVI/ AAAAAAAABdQ/ p9vNR9TwRbs/ s1600-h/9+ -+Solar+Stealth. jpg

                I can't find any on-line pics of the early versions of the car, it was 10+
                years ago, digital cameras where quite rare...

                Wolf
                *wags his tail*
                www.wolftronix. com

                > Wolf,
                > As an aside can you tell me about the 3 wheel solar car you worked on.
                > EVA/DC has restored the MIT Aztec solar car a '94 competitor in the Tour
                > de Sol and I wonder if you have any knowledge about this vehicle. Your
                > vehicle description sounds similar.
                > Jay H Grossman
                >
                >
                > ----- Original Message ----
                > From: Wolf <wolf@wolftronix. com>
                > To: solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com
                > Sent: Monday, June 30, 2008 8:12:47 PM
                > Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Re: Overhaul Motor recommendations
                >
                >
                >
                > I just remembered why we where adjusting the sensor... :)
                >
                > Our solar car had 3 wheels on it, the two in the front steered, and the
                > one in the back was powered by the motor.
                >
                > When they made the motor mount for the motor, they placed it infront of
                > the wheel, and it was chain drive to the rear wheel, the other side had he
                > brake caliper and brake disc.
                >
                > When they did this they choose to place the output shaft on the right side
                > of the car (right side drive).
                >
                > When I wired up the car according to the manual, when the switch was in
                > the "forward" position our car went backwards.
                >
                > No big deal, we just flipped the wiring on the switch, and all was good...
                >
                > However our performance numbers did not match what was expected of the
                > motor. So we called up Solectria, and they helped trouble shoot the
                > problem. Then they found out that the motor was mounted backwards.
                >
                > The motor sensors where actuly slightly advanced to account for the
                > controller's feedback lag, so the motor did actuly have a perfered forward
                > direction.
                >
                > We had to adjust the circuit board with the hall sensors on it, to make
                > the motor more efficent in our "forward" direction, it was like 3 or 4 arc
                > seconds, but it made a big difference in motor efficency. :)
                >
                > Wolf
                > *wags his tail*
                > www.wolftronix. com
                >
                >>
                >> There is a procdure that lines up the hall sensors. I remember doing it
                >> once on a solectria 5HP BLDC motor on a solar car...
                >>
                >> This will find all the stator coils (poles):
                >>
                >> It involved applying a low voltage, like 12 volts to one coil thru a
                >> resistor to limit the current to 1 or so amp, the rotor will cog to line
                >> up the magnet with the stator. Then you mark the shaft relation to the
                >> housing. Then turn the motor by hand till it snaps to the next cog, then
                >> using the same mark on the rotor you place another mark on the housing.
                >> Keep rotating and marking till you over lap an exsiting one.
                >>
                >> Then reverse the voltage on the same coil and repeate the procedure.
                >>
                >> Then hook up the low voltage to the next coil. (use a different color
                >> mark)
                >>
                >> Repeate the same process for all the coils (some coils will yeild the
                >> same
                >> results, these are the ones that can be connected in series or parallel,
                >> if you have 6 wires exposed from the motor).
                >>
                >> The three sensors should line up with three consecutive marks you made
                >> on
                >> the housing.
                >>
                >> Procedure to find the magnets N/S magnets on the rotor.
                >>
                >> Apply the low voltage to one of the coils, the rotor will cog an line up
                >> with a one of the marks you made on the housing. Circle the mark on the
                >> housing. Then rotate the motor shaft by hand to the next cog. Transfer
                >> the
                >> circled mark to the shaft. Repeat this till the marks over lap. The
                >> marks
                >> on the shaft will be the locations of all of one type of magnets (North
                >> or
                >> South, by definition, if the motor coils are marked + and - and you have
                >> the positive voltage connected ot the + terminal they will be the North
                >> magnets).
                >>
                >> Reverse the voltage and repeate the procedure, this will find the
                >> opposite
                >> poles.
                >>
                >> When you are done, you should know where all the N/S magnets are, and
                >> you
                >> can align the sense magent to the rotor, it should have the same number
                >> of
                >> poles as the rotor.
                >>
                >> Note: this is from memory, of something we did about 10 years ago to
                >> confirm that our motor was adjusted right... I do remember a division by
                >> three might be needed for the magnet locations... It should make sence
                >> when all the marks are on the rotor (shaft) and the stator (housing).
                >>
                >> Hope this helps. :)
                >>
                >> Wolf
                >> *wags his tail*
                >> www.wolftronix. com
                >>
                >>> Charles Bliss:
                >>>
                >>> To recap:? Your brushless DC motor has a permanent magnet rotor.
                >>> Using the analogy of a clock face you have:
                >>> S pole (12:00 - 3:00)
                >>> N pole (3:00 - 6:00)
                >>> S pole (6:00 - 9:00)
                >>> N pole (9:00 - 12:00)
                >>>
                >>> About how many degrees is the interpole gap at 12:00, 3:00, 6:00 and
                >>> 9:00?
                >>>
                >>> Also, when you look at the stator on-end, how many pole teeth are there
                >>> in
                >>> the stator metal?
                >>>
                >>> Sincerely,
                >>>
                >>> Gary Carlson
                >>> gjc0@...
                >>>
                >>>
                >>> -----Original Message-----
                >>> From: Charles Bliss <cbliss@cbliss. com>
                >>> To: solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com
                >>> Sent: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 7:54 am
                >>> Subject: RE: [solectria_ev] Re: Overhaul Motor recommendations
                >>>
                >>>
                >>>
                >>>
                >>>
                >>>
                >>> I am pretty sure that I need to modify or replace the sensors. At the
                >>> minimum, all the wires from the 3 hall effect sensors are brought to
                >>> the
                >>> controller in the original. In the new controller, there are only 6
                >>> leads
                >>> required, +/- supply and the three phases. The original sensor is a
                >>> mass
                >>> of
                >>> machined epoxy. The magnet is four pole 2N, 2S and the sensor looks
                >>> like
                >>> 30
                >>> deg separation of the three pickups.
                >>>
                >>> Any information / help will be appreciated.
                >>>
                >>> From: solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:solectria_ ev@ yahoogroups.
                >>> com]
                >>> On
                >>> Behalf Of ldr214
                >>> Sent: Monday, June 30, 2008 7:41 AM
                >>> To: solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com
                >>> Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: Overhaul Motor recommendations
                >>>
                >>> Solectria had a lot of different suppliers and changed many things as
                >>> the cars evolved. It would be wise for all of us to post specifics
                >>> when we have a problem or comment. Even amoung the rather similiar 96
                >>> and up Force productiuon there are still variations, such as nicad,
                >>> chargers, avcon inlets and so on.
                >>>
                >>> Wolf which motor are you referring to in your post? I don't know if
                >>> the truck used the same one as in the 97 Force (ACgtx20).
                >>>
                >>> Kruspan has some support for disks and sensors.
                >>>
                >>> Mike
                >>> 97
                >>>
                >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >>>
                >>>
                >>>
                >>>
                >>>
                >>>
                >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >>>
                >>>
                >>
                >>
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >






                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • rod robinson
                HI Gary, Great article, thanks so much. Rod Robinson (Future EV er). To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.comFrom: gjc0@aol.comDate: Tue, 1 Jul 2008 13:10:39
                Message 7 of 29 , Jul 2, 2008
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                  HI Gary,
                  Great article, thanks so much.
                  Rod Robinson (Future EV'er).



                  To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.comFrom: gjc0@...: Tue, 1 Jul 2008 13:10:39 -0400Subject: [solectria_ev] Article: Care and Feeding of Lithium Ion Batteries




                  Greetings EVers:I am too poor to buy Lithium Ions for my 1992 Solectria Force.At least I can read and dream.? Here is a link to an interesting article:http://www.automotivedesignline.com/howto/powertrain/208801379Sincerely,Gary?Carlson_ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                  _________________________________________________________________
                  Your Future Starts Here. Dream it? Then be it! Find it at www.seek.com.au
                  http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fninemsn%2Eseek%2Ecom%2Eau%2F%3Ftracking%3Dsk%3Ahet%3Ask%3Anine%3A0%3Ahot%3Atext&_t=764565661&_r=OCT07_endtext_Future&_m=EXT

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Tom Hudson
                  Our E-10 had this a while back and our Force just recently developed the same thing. There is a spot on the accelerator potentiometer that is where it sits
                  Message 8 of 29 , Jul 2, 2008
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                    Our E-10 had this a while back and our Force just recently developed the
                    same thing. There is a spot on the accelerator potentiometer that is
                    where it sits during normal driving and I assume the wiper in the pot
                    eventually rubs this area until it starts to fail. That failure results
                    in jerky power when driving with your foot in that position. The remedy
                    is to replace the potbox potentiometer. Does anybody have a source for
                    these? I definitely need to replace mine ASAP.

                    -Tom

                    Will Beckett (PCSolutions) wrote:
                    >
                    > I once replace a bad potentiometer that controls the acceleration and
                    > would
                    > cause the car to jump a bit at specific speeds (around 45mph). It also
                    > could be a speed sensor but I would need to feel it to know for sure.
                    >
                    > .
                    >
                    >


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Bill or Dorothy Swann
                    I have never taken the pot box apart. Is the pot got some manufacturers markings? Bill S ... From: Tom Hudson To:
                    Message 9 of 29 , Jul 2, 2008
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                      I have never taken the pot box apart. Is the pot got some manufacturers markings?
                      Bill S


                      ----- Original Message ----
                      From: Tom Hudson <tdhudson@...>
                      To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Wednesday, July 2, 2008 1:41:46 PM
                      Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] "Engine" missing.


                      Our E-10 had this a while back and our Force just recently developed the
                      same thing. There is a spot on the accelerator potentiometer that is
                      where it sits during normal driving and I assume the wiper in the pot
                      eventually rubs this area until it starts to fail. That failure results
                      in jerky power when driving with your foot in that position. The remedy
                      is to replace the potbox potentiometer. Does anybody have a source for
                      these? I definitely need to replace mine ASAP.

                      -Tom

                      Will Beckett (PCSolutions) wrote:
                      >
                      > I once replace a bad potentiometer that controls the acceleration and
                      > would
                      > cause the car to jump a bit at specific speeds (around 45mph). It also
                      > could be a speed sensor but I would need to feel it to know for sure.
                      >
                      > .
                      >
                      >

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Gerard (Gary) Carlson
                      Greetings: A long time ago I replaced the potentiometer (POT) in my 1992 Force. I removed the POT and found some numbers on it that corresponded to the
                      Message 10 of 29 , Jul 2, 2008
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                        Greetings:

                        A long time ago I replaced the potentiometer (POT) in my 1992 Force.
                        I removed the POT and found some numbers on it that corresponded to the manufacturer's part number.

                        I was able to find a replacement part at www.digikey.com

                        Another method is to measure the shaft diameter, thread size of the nut and the resistance value between the two outer wires (when disconnected).? This will give you the specs. that you need.

                        Sincerely,

                        Gary Carlson
                        gjc0@...


                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: Tom Hudson <tdhudson@...>
                        To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 11:41 am
                        Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] "Engine" missing.






                        Our E-10 had this a while back and our Force just recently developed the
                        same thing. There is a spot on the accelerator potentiometer that is
                        where it sits during normal driving and I assume the wiper in the pot
                        eventually rubs this area until it starts to fail. That failure results
                        in jerky power when driving with your foot in that position. The remedy
                        is to replace the potbox potentiometer. Does anybody have a source for
                        these? I definitely need to replace mine ASAP.

                        -Tom

                        Will Beckett (PCSolutions) wrote:
                        >
                        > I once replace a bad potentiometer that controls the acceleration and
                        > would
                        > cause the car to jump a bit at specific speeds (around 45mph). It also
                        > could be a speed sensor but I would need to feel it to know for sure.
                        >
                        > .
                        >
                        >

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Bill or Dorothy Swann
                        Hello Gary. I cannot argue with a P/N but, aren t pots, in some cases, non-linear? Bill s ... From: Gerard (Gary) Carlson To:
                        Message 11 of 29 , Jul 2, 2008
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                          Hello Gary. I cannot argue with a P/N but, aren't pots, in some cases, non-linear?
                          Bill s



                          ----- Original Message ----
                          From: Gerard (Gary) Carlson <gjc0@...>
                          To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Wednesday, July 2, 2008 3:01:19 PM
                          Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] "Engine" missing.


                          Greetings:

                          A long time ago I replaced the potentiometer (POT) in my 1992 Force.
                          I removed the POT and found some numbers on it that corresponded to the manufacturer' s part number.

                          I was able to find a replacement part at www.digikey. com

                          Another method is to measure the shaft diameter, thread size of the nut and the resistance value between the two outer wires (when disconnected) .? This will give you the specs. that you need.

                          Sincerely,

                          Gary Carlson
                          gjc0@...

                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: Tom Hudson <tdhudson@klanky. com>
                          To: solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com
                          Sent: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 11:41 am
                          Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] "Engine" missing.

                          Our E-10 had this a while back and our Force just recently developed the
                          same thing. There is a spot on the accelerator potentiometer that is
                          where it sits during normal driving and I assume the wiper in the pot
                          eventually rubs this area until it starts to fail. That failure results
                          in jerky power when driving with your foot in that position. The remedy
                          is to replace the potbox potentiometer. Does anybody have a source for
                          these? I definitely need to replace mine ASAP.

                          -Tom

                          Will Beckett (PCSolutions) wrote:
                          >
                          > I once replace a bad potentiometer that controls the acceleration and
                          > would
                          > cause the car to jump a bit at specific speeds (around 45mph). It also
                          > could be a speed sensor but I would need to feel it to know for sure.
                          >
                          > .
                          >
                          >

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Will Beckett (PCSolutions)
                          Solectria once told me that the source for these pots was critical, so I would suggest using the manufacturer and specific part number on the pot. BTW, it
                          Message 12 of 29 , Jul 2, 2008
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                            Solectria once told me that the source for these pots was critical, so I
                            would suggest using the manufacturer and specific part number on the pot.
                            BTW, it isn't in a box. You can see the pot.

                            -Will

                            From: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com [mailto:solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com] On
                            Behalf Of Bill or Dorothy Swann
                            Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 2:20 PM
                            To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] "Engine" missing.

                            Hello Gary. I cannot argue with a P/N but, aren't pots, in some cases,
                            non-linear?
                            Bill s

                            ----- Original Message ----
                            From: Gerard (Gary) Carlson <gjc0@... <mailto:gjc0%40aol.com> >
                            To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com <mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Wednesday, July 2, 2008 3:01:19 PM
                            Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] "Engine" missing.

                            Greetings:

                            A long time ago I replaced the potentiometer (POT) in my 1992 Force.
                            I removed the POT and found some numbers on it that corresponded to the
                            manufacturer' s part number.

                            I was able to find a replacement part at www.digikey. com

                            Another method is to measure the shaft diameter, thread size of the nut and
                            the resistance value between the two outer wires (when disconnected) .? This
                            will give you the specs. that you need.

                            Sincerely,

                            Gary Carlson
                            gjc0@... <mailto:gjc0%40aol.com>

                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: Tom Hudson <tdhudson@klanky. com>
                            To: solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com
                            Sent: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 11:41 am
                            Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] "Engine" missing.

                            Our E-10 had this a while back and our Force just recently developed the
                            same thing. There is a spot on the accelerator potentiometer that is
                            where it sits during normal driving and I assume the wiper in the pot
                            eventually rubs this area until it starts to fail. That failure results
                            in jerky power when driving with your foot in that position. The remedy
                            is to replace the potbox potentiometer. Does anybody have a source for
                            these? I definitely need to replace mine ASAP.

                            -Tom

                            Will Beckett (PCSolutions) wrote:
                            >
                            > I once replace a bad potentiometer that controls the acceleration and
                            > would
                            > cause the car to jump a bit at specific speeds (around 45mph). It also
                            > could be a speed sensor but I would need to feel it to know for sure.
                            >
                            > .
                            >
                            >

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Charles Bliss
                            You can probably pick one up at a good electronics surplus store. They tend to have higher quality and good prices. If you are in the Bay Area, consider
                            Message 13 of 29 , Jul 2, 2008
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                              You can probably pick one up at a good electronics surplus store. They tend
                              to have higher quality and good prices. If you are in the Bay Area,
                              consider looking at Halted ( http://www.halted.com/ )



                              From: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com [mailto:solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com] On
                              Behalf Of Will Beckett (PCSolutions)
                              Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 3:28 PM
                              To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: RE: [solectria_ev] "Engine" missing.



                              Solectria once told me that the source for these pots was critical, so I
                              would suggest using the manufacturer and specific part number on the pot.
                              BTW, it isn't in a box. You can see the pot.

                              -Will








                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Gerard (Gary) Carlson
                              Bill: Linear vs non-linear (logarithmic)? can be determined with an ohm meter. 1)? measure the resistance between the two outer terminals. (say for example it
                              Message 14 of 29 , Jul 2, 2008
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                                Bill:

                                Linear vs non-linear (logarithmic)? can be determined with an ohm meter.

                                1)? measure the resistance between the two outer terminals.
                                (say for example it is about 5,000 ohms)

                                2)? Next, determine the degrees of rotation.? (270 degrees is a reasonable number)

                                3)? Measure the resistance between one end and the middle terminal (the slider)
                                at 0 degrees, 90 degrees, 180 degrees, and 270 degrees.

                                4)? If the POT is linear you should see the following:

                                0 degrees: 0 ohms
                                90 degrees:? 1667 ohms
                                180 degrees: 3333 ohms
                                270 degrees: 5000 ohms

                                If on the other hand, the resistance is all skewed to one end, you probably have a logarithmic POT.

                                You can choose other degrees of rotation of course.
                                Also, work to one significant figure.? Don't expect great accuracy.
                                If you are an experienced techie, sorry?for the detail.? Maybe someone else will benefit.?



                                I believe mine is linear.

                                Good luck,

                                Gary Carlson
                                gjc0@...


                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: Bill or Dorothy Swann <dbswann4@...>
                                To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 2:20 pm
                                Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] "Engine" missing.






                                Hello Gary. I cannot argue with a P/N but, aren't pots, in some cases, non-linear?
                                Bill s

                                ----- Original Message ----
                                From: Gerard (Gary) Carlson <gjc0@...>
                                To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Wednesday, July 2, 2008 3:01:19 PM
                                Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] "Engine" missing.

                                Greetings:

                                A long time ago I replaced the potentiometer (POT) in my 1992 Force.
                                I removed the POT and found some numbers on it that corresponded to the manufacturer' s part number.

                                I was able to find a replacement part at www.digikey. com

                                Another method is to measure the shaft diameter, thread size of the nut and the resistance value between the two outer wires (when disconnected) .? This will give you the specs. that you need.

                                Sincerely,

                                Gary Carlson
                                gjc0@...

                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: Tom Hudson <tdhudson@klanky. com>
                                To: solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com
                                Sent: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 11:41 am
                                Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] "Engine" missing.

                                Our E-10 had this a while back and our Force just recently developed the
                                same thing. There is a spot on the accelerator potentiometer that is
                                where it sits during normal driving and I assume the wiper in the pot
                                eventually rubs this area until it starts to fail. That failure results
                                in jerky power when driving with your foot in that position. The remedy
                                is to replace the potbox potentiometer. Does anybody have a source for
                                these? I definitely need to replace mine ASAP.

                                -Tom

                                Will Beckett (PCSolutions) wrote:
                                >
                                > I once replace a bad potentiometer that controls the acceleration and
                                > would
                                > cause the car to jump a bit at specific speeds (around 45mph). It also
                                > could be a speed sensor but I would need to feel it to know for sure.
                                >
                                > .
                                >
                                >

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                              • Wolf
                                logarithmic pots are also known as audio taper or attenuator . :) Wolf *wags his tail* www.wolftronix.com
                                Message 15 of 29 , Jul 2, 2008
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                                  logarithmic pots are also known as "audio taper" or "attenuator". :)

                                  Wolf
                                  *wags his tail*
                                  www.wolftronix.com

                                  > Bill:
                                  >
                                  > Linear vs non-linear (logarithmic)? can be determined with an ohm meter.
                                  >
                                  > 1)? measure the resistance between the two outer terminals.
                                  > (say for example it is about 5,000 ohms)
                                  >
                                  > 2)? Next, determine the degrees of rotation.? (270 degrees is a reasonable
                                  > number)
                                  >
                                  > 3)? Measure the resistance between one end and the middle terminal (the
                                  > slider)
                                  > at 0 degrees, 90 degrees, 180 degrees, and 270 degrees.
                                  >
                                  > 4)? If the POT is linear you should see the following:
                                  >
                                  > 0 degrees: 0 ohms
                                  > 90 degrees:? 1667 ohms
                                  > 180 degrees: 3333 ohms
                                  > 270 degrees: 5000 ohms
                                  >
                                  > If on the other hand, the resistance is all skewed to one end, you
                                  > probably have a logarithmic POT.
                                  >
                                  > You can choose other degrees of rotation of course.
                                  > Also, work to one significant figure.? Don't expect great accuracy.
                                  > If you are an experienced techie, sorry?for the detail.? Maybe someone
                                  > else will benefit.?
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > I believe mine is linear.
                                  >
                                  > Good luck,
                                  >
                                  > Gary Carlson
                                  > gjc0@...
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > -----Original Message-----
                                  > From: Bill or Dorothy Swann <dbswann4@...>
                                  > To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Sent: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 2:20 pm
                                  > Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] "Engine" missing.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Hello Gary. I cannot argue with a P/N but, aren't pots, in some cases,
                                  > non-linear?
                                  > Bill s
                                  >
                                  > ----- Original Message ----
                                  > From: Gerard (Gary) Carlson <gjc0@...>
                                  > To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Sent: Wednesday, July 2, 2008 3:01:19 PM
                                  > Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] "Engine" missing.
                                  >
                                  > Greetings:
                                  >
                                  > A long time ago I replaced the potentiometer (POT) in my 1992 Force.
                                  > I removed the POT and found some numbers on it that corresponded to the
                                  > manufacturer' s part number.
                                  >
                                  > I was able to find a replacement part at www.digikey. com
                                  >
                                  > Another method is to measure the shaft diameter, thread size of the nut
                                  > and the resistance value between the two outer wires (when disconnected)
                                  > .? This will give you the specs. that you need.
                                  >
                                  > Sincerely,
                                  >
                                  > Gary Carlson
                                  > gjc0@...
                                  >
                                  > -----Original Message-----
                                  > From: Tom Hudson <tdhudson@klanky. com>
                                  > To: solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com
                                  > Sent: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 11:41 am
                                  > Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] "Engine" missing.
                                  >
                                  > Our E-10 had this a while back and our Force just recently developed the
                                  > same thing. There is a spot on the accelerator potentiometer that is
                                  > where it sits during normal driving and I assume the wiper in the pot
                                  > eventually rubs this area until it starts to fail. That failure results
                                  > in jerky power when driving with your foot in that position. The remedy
                                  > is to replace the potbox potentiometer. Does anybody have a source for
                                  > these? I definitely need to replace mine ASAP.
                                  >
                                  > -Tom
                                  >
                                  > Will Beckett (PCSolutions) wrote:
                                  >>
                                  >> I once replace a bad potentiometer that controls the acceleration and
                                  >> would
                                  >> cause the car to jump a bit at specific speeds (around 45mph). It also
                                  >> could be a speed sensor but I would need to feel it to know for sure.
                                  >>
                                  >> .
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >
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