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Firefly Energy Oasis battery

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  • Noel Luneau
    Is anyone thinking of trying the new Firefly Energy Oasis battery, when it s available? Here are some specs: Specification Summary BCI Group Size: Group 31
    Message 1 of 11 , Feb 7, 2008
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      Is anyone thinking of trying the new Firefly Energy Oasis battery, when
      it's available?

      Here are some specs:

      Specification Summary

      BCI Group Size: Group 31

      Nominal OC Voltage: 12V

      Deep-Cycling Capability: Yes

      Reserve Capacity: 215 min @25A

      CCA: 650 amperes

      CA: 800 amperes

      Internal Resistance (Ohms): 0.0008

      Length: 13.46 (341.88)

      Width: 6.77 (171.96)

      Height: 9.20 (233.68)

      Weight: 70.4 (32.0)

      Terminal Type:Internal Thread

      http://www.fireflyenergy.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2\
      73&Itemid=100
      <http://www.fireflyenergy.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=\
      273&Itemid=100>

      Thanks,

      Noel L.



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Doug Brentlinger
      I don t see a great improvement in performance for the 3D model, I will wait for the 3D2 model. doug Noel Luneau wrote: Is anyone
      Message 2 of 11 , Feb 7, 2008
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        I don't see a great improvement in performance for the 3D model, I will wait for the 3D2 model.
        doug

        Noel Luneau <nluneau@...> wrote:


        Is anyone thinking of trying the new Firefly Energy Oasis battery, when
        it's available?

        Here are some specs:

        Specification Summary

        BCI Group Size: Group 31

        Nominal OC Voltage: 12V

        Deep-Cycling Capability: Yes

        Reserve Capacity: 215 min @25A

        CCA: 650 amperes

        CA: 800 amperes

        Internal Resistance (Ohms): 0.0008

        Length: 13.46 (341.88)

        Width: 6.77 (171.96)

        Height: 9.20 (233.68)

        Weight: 70.4 (32.0)

        Terminal Type:Internal Thread

        http://www.fireflyenergy.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2\
        73&Itemid=100
        <http://www.fireflyenergy.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=\
        273&Itemid=100>

        Thanks,

        Noel L.

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • theoldcars@aol.com
        If this is as claimed there is a lot to be excited about. Looks like almost 1000 cycles before it even slightly drops 95 percent. Claims good cold weather
        Message 3 of 11 , Feb 7, 2008
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          If this is as claimed there is a lot to be excited about. Looks like almost
          1000 cycles before it even slightly drops 95 percent. Claims good cold
          weather performance.

          25 amps for 225 minutes is better than the Panasonic or Ovonics NiMH
          battery.

          I wonder what the 50 amp rating is and how long it can handle 200 or 400 amp
          demands? If this would affect the cycle life and capacity.

          The weight is more than I thought they were going to weigh but other than
          that looks impressive on paper.

          Don Blazer


          In a message dated 2/7/2008 3:21:12 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
          dougb120@... writes:

          I don't see a great improvement in performance for the 3D model, I will wait
          for the 3D2 model.
          doug

          Noel Luneau <_nluneau@..._ (mailto:nluneau@...) > wrote:




          **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
          (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025
          48)


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Mark Freidberg
          From the spec sheet: This breakthrough technology does all of this in a battery that is also lighter than a conventional lead acid product. No, its published
          Message 4 of 11 , Feb 7, 2008
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            From the spec sheet:

            "This breakthrough technology does all of this in a battery that is also lighter than a conventional lead acid product."

            No, its published weight of 70.4 lbs, is basically the same as other group 31 AGM batteries.


            And its *claimed* reserve capacity of 215 minutes is only somewhat longer then that of other group 31 AGMs:

            -Discover EV31A-A: 186 minutes
            -Deka 9A31: 190 minutes
            -Odyssey PC2150: 200 minutes

            And under the cycle life spec, there is some fine print to be read:

            "*Cycle life testing based on test results of 25Ah high-rate battery of similar design features."


            Mark



            theoldcars@... wrote:
            If this is as claimed there is a lot to be excited about. Looks like almost
            1000 cycles before it even slightly drops 95 percent. Claims good cold
            weather performance.

            25 amps for 225 minutes is better than the Panasonic or Ovonics NiMH
            battery.

            I wonder what the 50 amp rating is and how long it can handle 200 or 400 amp
            demands? If this would affect the cycle life and capacity.

            The weight is more than I thought they were going to weigh but other than
            that looks impressive on paper.

            Don Blazer


            In a message dated 2/7/2008 3:21:12 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
            dougb120@... writes:

            I don't see a great improvement in performance for the 3D model, I will wait
            for the 3D2 model.
            doug

            Noel Luneau <_nluneau@..._ (mailto:nluneau@...) > wrote:

            **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
            (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025
            48)

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






            ---------------------------------
            Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

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          • theoldcars@aol.com
            Hello Mark Good to hear from you. On the Odyssey here is their information. I have heard a lot of good things about the Odyssey and they can handle a high
            Message 5 of 11 , Feb 7, 2008
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              Hello Mark

              Good to hear from you. On the Odyssey here is their information. I have
              heard a lot of good things about the Odyssey and they can handle a high current
              demands. It is their price for the cycle life that I dislike.

              I talked to the main tech person at Odyssey and they do not give a warranty
              for EV use. He also stated as shown below their actual cycle life is not what
              is on many of the sites. Some of the sites list higher cycle life but it is
              not accurate. The tech person said there are over a thousand sites listing
              information on the Odyssey battery and many of them are not correct.

              Cycle life at 80% DOD is 400 take a look at the factory information.
              _http://www.odysseyfactory.com/documents/US-ODY-31-003_1206.pdf_
              (http://www.odysseyfactory.com/documents/US-ODY-31-003_1206.pdf)

              It is sites like this below that are not correct.
              _http://www.odysseysoutheast.com/pc2150-battery.php_
              (http://www.odysseysoutheast.com/pc2150-battery.php)
              Cycle Life (Deep cycle capability) 400 @ 100% DOD (depth of discharge) 500 @
              80% DOD

              It is the cycle life that could be the huge with a Firefly. It depends
              though on how it handles a 50 amp load and how long it can handle peaks of 200 to
              400 amps. The NiMH battery is around 40 pounds but they cost around 1200
              dollars when one could buy them new.

              I was disappointed that the weight was not less. Here is Lan's site if you
              have not seen it.
              _http://southtownelanes.com/electric_pickups.html_
              (http://southtownelanes.com/electric_pickups.html)
              He has been using the Odyssey batteries.

              On the Firefly take a look at the graph in the link below that claims 1000
              cycles and still retain 95% of the capacity. The question is can they handle
              higher demands? And if they can how does it affect their cycle life.

              _http://www.fireflyenergy.com/images/stories/pdfs/FFE-27008ValuePropBro_FinalR
              EV.pdf_
              (http://www.fireflyenergy.com/images/stories/pdfs/FFE-27008ValuePropBro_FinalREV.pdf)

              I have sent this to Lan and he is requesting more information and pricing.

              Don Blazer


              In a message dated 2/7/2008 10:21:28 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
              mark58150@... writes:

              From the spec sheet:

              "This breakthrough technology does all of this in a battery that is also
              lighter than a conventional lead acid product."

              No, its published weight of 70.4 lbs, is basically the same as other group
              31 AGM batteries.

              And its *claimed* reserve capacity of 215 minutes is only somewhat longer
              then that of other group 31 AGMs:

              -Discover EV31A-A: 186 minutes
              -Deka 9A31: 190 minutes
              -Odyssey PC2150: 200 minutes

              And under the cycle life spec, there is some fine print to be read:

              "*Cycle life testing based on test results of 25Ah high-rate battery of
              similar design features."


              Mark



              _theoldcars@..._ (mailto:theoldcars@...) wrote:
              If this is as claimed there is a lot to be excited about. Looks like almost
              1000 cycles before it even slightly drops 95 percent. Claims good cold
              weather performance.

              25 amps for 225 minutes is better than the Panasonic or Ovonics NiMH
              battery.

              I wonder what the 50 amp rating is and how long it can handle 200 or 400 amp
              demands? If this would affect the cycle life and capacity.

              The weight is more than I thought they were going to weigh but other than
              that looks impressive on paper.

              Don Blazer





              **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
              (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025
              48)


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • ldr214
              My 2 cents worth as I work on a battery presentation for our EAA chapter meeting tomorrow. A group 31 isn t going to fit in the battery compartments of a 97
              Message 6 of 11 , Feb 8, 2008
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                My 2 cents worth as I work on a battery presentation for our EAA
                chapter meeting tomorrow.

                A group 31 isn't going to fit in the battery compartments of a 97
                Force or most others. A group 27 battery is only a nominal 12 inches
                long and that doesn't allow much room for fit.

                The 27 isn't a very popular heavy industry size so we might have to
                wait awhile.

                Seems like a very highly refined AGM battery with a lot of good
                numbers, if the price point doesn't clobber it.

                I wonder about that resistance number. There is no standard for
                measuring resistance so it would be nice if they said how they
                obtained it. Anyhow it is likely a low one even if not that low in
                practicial use.

                Weight factor?
                "watts are watts" and in this case it looks like "lead is lead."

                CCA?
                I just tested a 5 year old Dynasty AGM group 27 on Tuesday and it
                turned in a CCA of 730. (It is very weak on capacity.) Point being we
                need to operate one in a EV or have the manufacturer give us a hint
                that they are good to go before rendering judgement on these numbers.

                I'm hoping they are a step forward and will add to the available EV
                battery options. Companies like Concorde and Deka have some proven
                products in the deep cycle Pba department. Firefly needs to beat them
                on the street to be successful unless they are just going to be in
                "Caterpillar" products.


                Mike Rydjord
                97 Force

                --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "Noel Luneau" <nluneau@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Is anyone thinking of trying the new Firefly Energy Oasis battery, when
                > it's available?
                >
                > Here are some specs:
                >
                > Specification Summary
                >
                > BCI Group Size: Group 31
                >
                > Nominal OC Voltage: 12V
                >
                > Deep-Cycling Capability: Yes
                >
                > Reserve Capacity: 215 min @25A
                >
                > CCA: 650 amperes
                >
                > CA: 800 amperes
                >
                > Internal Resistance (Ohms): 0.0008
                >
                > Length: 13.46 (341.88)
                >
                > Width: 6.77 (171.96)
                >
                > Height: 9.20 (233.68)
                >
                > Weight: 70.4 (32.0)
                >
                > Terminal Type:Internal Thread
                >
                >
                http://www.fireflyenergy.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2\
                > 73&Itemid=100
                >
                <http://www.fireflyenergy.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=\
                > 273&Itemid=100>
                >
                > Thanks,
                >
                > Noel L.
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
              • ehsif727
                I installed silicone batteries in my 1996 Force and they were 13 inches long and they fit with no extra room so I dont think that you could get these Oasis
                Message 7 of 11 , Feb 8, 2008
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                  I installed silicone batteries in my 1996 Force and they were 13
                  inches long and they fit with no extra room so I dont think that you
                  could get these Oasis group 31 batteries (which are longer) to fit in
                  the front battery compartment.
                  Eric Fisher

                  --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "Noel Luneau" <nluneau@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Is anyone thinking of trying the new Firefly Energy Oasis battery, when
                  > it's available?
                  >
                  > Here are some specs:
                  >
                  > Specification Summary
                  >
                  > BCI Group Size: Group 31
                  >
                  > Nominal OC Voltage: 12V
                  >
                  > Deep-Cycling Capability: Yes
                  >
                  > Reserve Capacity: 215 min @25A
                  >
                  > CCA: 650 amperes
                  >
                  > CA: 800 amperes
                  >
                  > Internal Resistance (Ohms): 0.0008
                  >
                  > Length: 13.46 (341.88)
                  >
                  > Width: 6.77 (171.96)
                  >
                  > Height: 9.20 (233.68)
                  >
                  > Weight: 70.4 (32.0)
                  >
                  > Terminal Type:Internal Thread
                  >
                  >
                  http://www.fireflyenergy.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2\
                  > 73&Itemid=100
                  >
                  <http://www.fireflyenergy.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=\
                  > 273&Itemid=100>
                  >
                  > Thanks,
                  >
                  > Noel L.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                • Stephen Taylor
                  The group 31 size does seem to vary somewhat from different manufacturers. The Firefly battery doesn t fit because it is well over 13 inches, but the Deka
                  Message 8 of 11 , Feb 8, 2008
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                    The group 31 size does seem to vary somewhat from different manufacturers. The Firefly battery doesn't fit because it is well over 13 inches, but the Deka Dominator Group 31 says it is only 12 15/16 verses the group 27s 12 3/4. Sounds like it would fit. It weighs 10lbs more than the group 27 so you would be adding 130 lbs to the car.

                    Stephen Taylor




                    ---------------------------------
                    Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Mark Freidberg
                    Don makes a good point about cycle life. It will be interesting to learn how it varies with higher amp draws. If Firefly can manufacture a battery with good
                    Message 9 of 11 , Feb 8, 2008
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                      Don makes a good point about cycle life. It will be interesting to
                      learn how it varies with higher amp draws. If Firefly can manufacture
                      a battery with good potential for application in the Force, hopefully
                      they'll also begin to make it in a size that will fit.

                      Mark


                      --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Taylor <sparrow262@...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > The group 31 size does seem to vary somewhat from different
                      manufacturers. The Firefly battery doesn't fit because it is well
                      over 13 inches, but the Deka Dominator Group 31 says it is only 12
                      15/16 verses the group 27s 12 3/4. Sounds like it would fit. It
                      weighs 10lbs more than the group 27 so you would be adding 130 lbs to
                      the car.
                      >
                      > Stephen Taylor
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ---------------------------------
                      > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.
                      Try it now.
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                    • Kenneth Martin
                      How much does each one cost? kwm ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      Message 10 of 11 , Feb 9, 2008
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                        How much does each one cost?
                        kwm

                        On Feb 7, 2008, at 2:06 PM, Noel Luneau wrote:

                        >
                        >
                        > Is anyone thinking of trying the new Firefly Energy Oasis battery,
                        > when
                        > it's available?
                        >
                        > Here are some specs:
                        >
                        > Specification Summary
                        >
                        > BCI Group Size: Group 31
                        >
                        > Nominal OC Voltage: 12V
                        >
                        > Deep-Cycling Capability: Yes
                        >
                        > Reserve Capacity: 215 min @25A
                        >
                        > CCA: 650 amperes
                        >
                        > CA: 800 amperes
                        >
                        > Internal Resistance (Ohms): 0.0008
                        >
                        > Length: 13.46 (341.88)
                        >
                        > Width: 6.77 (171.96)
                        >
                        > Height: 9.20 (233.68)
                        >
                        > Weight: 70.4 (32.0)
                        >
                        > Terminal Type:Internal Thread
                        >
                        > http://www.fireflyenergy.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2
                        > \
                        > 73&Itemid=100
                        > <http://www.fireflyenergy.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=
                        > \
                        > 273&Itemid=100>
                        >
                        > Thanks,
                        >
                        > Noel L.
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        >
                        >



                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Noel Adams
                        Last time I talked to Firefly - it was their publicity guy not the technical end - I was told that the Oasis battery isn t meant for EV applications, it is
                        Message 11 of 11 , Feb 9, 2008
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                          Last time I talked to Firefly - it was their publicity guy not the technical end - I was told that the Oasis battery isn't meant for EV applications, it is targeted at Truck drivers who can no longer sit with their engine idling all night. Firefly are supposedly working on a battery that will be good for EV/PHEV applications but they wouldn't have anything to talk about until the middle of 2008.

                          Noel

                          To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.comFrom: mark58150@...: Sat, 9 Feb 2008 04:08:39 +0000Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: Firefly Energy Oasis battery




                          Don makes a good point about cycle life. It will be interesting to learn how it varies with higher amp draws. If Firefly can manufacture a battery with good potential for application in the Force, hopefully they'll also begin to make it in a size that will fit. Mark--- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Taylor <sparrow262@...> wrote:>> The group 31 size does seem to vary somewhat from different manufacturers. The Firefly battery doesn't fit because it is well over 13 inches, but the Deka Dominator Group 31 says it is only 12 15/16 verses the group 27s 12 3/4. Sounds like it would fit. It weighs 10lbs more than the group 27 so you would be adding 130 lbs to the car.> > Stephen Taylor> > > > > ---------------------------------> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]>






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