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AH Problem -- Is it a Virus?

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  • ldr214
    Tell me this didn t just happen. I read Doug s post last night, go to the store this morning and the AH meter lets out a squeal like a screech owl. I was about
    Message 1 of 10 , Jan 14, 2008
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      Tell me this didn't just happen.

      I read Doug's post last night, go to the store this morning and the AH
      meter lets out a squeal like a screech owl.

      I was about a block from home in light regen, voltage 175-180. (Regen
      squeal needs a voltage over 186 on my car.)

      I turned the key off and had the AH fuse out faster than the time it
      has taken me to type this far.

      Yesterday I had the service disconnect open while I worked on my
      flacky ignition switch. I was in the area close to the AH box but not
      working with any of the wiring that goes to or from it.

      The noise wasn't anything like the sound a relay would be capable of
      making. Very high pitched grating sound, more like a alarm tone in a
      PC buzzer.

      Will check the connections and further examine as needed. The display
      was still working so I don't know if the cause and results fit the
      other failures.

      So much for logging each AH usage on the new pack. Although the
      odometer is a pretty close estimate.

      The AH reading on last nights short trip seemed to be about 1 AH
      better than it should have been. It is possible that it might have cut
      out early on the trip last night. Have noticed no other AH related
      problems and I have been logging data very closely on these AGM
      batteries.

      Will update if and when I find anything.

      Mike Rydjord
      97 Force
      24175 mi
    • ldr214
      Here is what I have found so far. 1. The black end plate on the meter side of the control box was not there. Guess that prevents condensation or it got lost in
      Message 2 of 10 , Jan 14, 2008
      • 0 Attachment
        Here is what I have found so far.
        1. The black end plate on the meter side of the control box was not
        there. Guess that prevents condensation or it got lost in a previous
        repair/removal.

        2. The end of the board that slides out and makes contact with the
        input wire which has the filter in it is RTV'd to the the box. Guess
        that keeps it from moving. Also keeps me from gently sliding it out so
        I'm going to start removing a lot of silicon.

        3. Looking inside towards pin 1 it looks like there may be some issue
        with corrosion in that area but will not know until completing removal.

        4. The filter and resistor are inside of heat shrink tape on this
        installation. I can see the outline and feel an intact resistor.


        Mike


        --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "ldr214" <replytome@...> wrote:
        >
        > Tell me this didn't just happen.
        >
        > I read Doug's post last night, go to the store this morning and the AH
        > meter lets out a squeal like a screech owl.
        >
        > I was about a block from home in light regen, voltage 175-180. (Regen
        > squeal needs a voltage over 186 on my car.)
        >
        > I turned the key off and had the AH fuse out faster than the time it
        > has taken me to type this far.
        >
        > Yesterday I had the service disconnect open while I worked on my
        > flacky ignition switch. I was in the area close to the AH box but not
        > working with any of the wiring that goes to or from it.
        >
        > The noise wasn't anything like the sound a relay would be capable of
        > making. Very high pitched grating sound, more like a alarm tone in a
        > PC buzzer.
        >
        > Will check the connections and further examine as needed. The display
        > was still working so I don't know if the cause and results fit the
        > other failures.
        >
        > So much for logging each AH usage on the new pack. Although the
        > odometer is a pretty close estimate.
        >
        > The AH reading on last nights short trip seemed to be about 1 AH
        > better than it should have been. It is possible that it might have cut
        > out early on the trip last night. Have noticed no other AH related
        > problems and I have been logging data very closely on these AGM
        > batteries.
        >
        > Will update if and when I find anything.
        >
        > Mike Rydjord
        > 97 Force
        > 24175 mi
        >
      • ldr214
        I have it back in the car and so far it is working normally again. Forget my #2 observation. Because one end of the box was already open I was thinking that
        Message 3 of 10 , Jan 14, 2008
        • 0 Attachment
          I have it back in the car and so far it is working normally again.

          Forget my #2 observation. Because one end of the box was already open
          I was thinking that the board came out in that direction. Not so. It
          removes towards the wiring with the filter.

          I found a very small amount of what could best be described as a light
          residue around the #1 contact post. I used a magnifying glass to
          actually decide there was something there. There was no scorching and
          electricially the connection were all good.

          I used a contact/board cleaning solution and blasted the area clean,
          rubbed off all remaining traces of the residue and then blasted it a
          couple of more times. Inspection with the magnifying glass revealed
          the area to look like the others after cleaning.

          I didn't install a Patterson jumper as there didn't appear to be any
          damage in need of repair.

          Hopefully I was able to catch the problem before it burned the board.
          Will monitor.

          Thanks to all for the advice.

          Mike

          --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "ldr214" <replytome@...> wrote:
          >
          > Here is what I have found so far.
          > 1. The black end plate on the meter side of the control box was not
          > there. Guess that prevents condensation or it got lost in a previous
          > repair/removal.
          >
          > 2. The end of the board that slides out and makes contact with the
          > input wire which has the filter in it is RTV'd to the the box. Guess
          > that keeps it from moving. Also keeps me from gently sliding it out so
          > I'm going to start removing a lot of silicon.
          >
          > 3. Looking inside towards pin 1 it looks like there may be some issue
          > with corrosion in that area but will not know until completing removal.
          >
          > 4. The filter and resistor are inside of heat shrink tape on this
          > installation. I can see the outline and feel an intact resistor.
          >
          >
          > Mike
          >
          >
          > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "ldr214" <replytome@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Tell me this didn't just happen.
          > >
          > > I read Doug's post last night, go to the store this morning and the AH
          > > meter lets out a squeal like a screech owl.
          > >
          > > I was about a block from home in light regen, voltage 175-180. (Regen
          > > squeal needs a voltage over 186 on my car.)
          > >
          > > I turned the key off and had the AH fuse out faster than the time it
          > > has taken me to type this far.
          > >
          > > Yesterday I had the service disconnect open while I worked on my
          > > flacky ignition switch. I was in the area close to the AH box but not
          > > working with any of the wiring that goes to or from it.
          > >
          > > The noise wasn't anything like the sound a relay would be capable of
          > > making. Very high pitched grating sound, more like a alarm tone in a
          > > PC buzzer.
          > >
          > > Will check the connections and further examine as needed. The display
          > > was still working so I don't know if the cause and results fit the
          > > other failures.
          > >
          > > So much for logging each AH usage on the new pack. Although the
          > > odometer is a pretty close estimate.
          > >
          > > The AH reading on last nights short trip seemed to be about 1 AH
          > > better than it should have been. It is possible that it might have cut
          > > out early on the trip last night. Have noticed no other AH related
          > > problems and I have been logging data very closely on these AGM
          > > batteries.
          > >
          > > Will update if and when I find anything.
          > >
          > > Mike Rydjord
          > > 97 Force
          > > 24175 mi
          > >
          >
        • David Patterson
          All: With Doug s and Mike s recent comments regarding intermittent meter behavior, I am not sure that a simple cleaning of the area is a long term solution to
          Message 4 of 10 , Jan 15, 2008
          • 0 Attachment
            All:

            With Doug's and Mike's recent comments regarding intermittent meter behavior, I am not sure that a simple cleaning of the area is a long term solution to the circuit board shorting problem, if related.

            More thoughts: Commercial circuit boards, particularly those used in severe environments (wide temperature ranges, high moisture, high voltage, etc.) are coated with a heavy lacquer like material (conformal coating) to protect the copper foil patterns. The failure on coated boards must have a path through the coating to the conductors and then across the surface. I had speculated on moisture being a problem on the surface.

            The reference to the "light residue" on the surface in recent postings reminded me on some boards I also saw this residue, which appeared like a light gray discolorization on the surface near (over) the two conductors. This board had shorted. I believe the conformal coating material had become "carbonized" and was in fact a short. On one other board, I have also seen severe burnt areas with a"crater" 1/8 inch in diameter with charred material deep into the surface of the positive foil conductor area between the two conductors, with coatings completely gone, obviously shorted.

            Some of these failures could also be from not cleaning the boards completely during production before the conformal coatings were applied, trapping potentially conductive material between the foil patterns.

            Some of these boards are now getting well over 10 years old and I think the conformal coating may be failing from age and temperature cycling more than moisture on the surface, alone. There may be pin holes or cracks to the surface. Moisture may help establish the conducting path. For this reason, if you cannot bypass that area I would suggest you re-coat the surface with RTV or other high voltage conformal coating after cleaning, and check it occasionally for the re-occurrence of the surface discolorization, before more serious problems develop.

            David Patterson


            ----- Original Message -----
            From: ldr214
            To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 6:09 PM
            Subject: [SPAM] [solectria_ev] Re: AH Problem -- Is it a Virus?


            I have it back in the car and so far it is working normally again.

            Forget my #2 observation. Because one end of the box was already open
            I was thinking that the board came out in that direction. Not so. It
            removes towards the wiring with the filter.

            I found a very small amount of what could best be described as a light
            residue around the #1 contact post. I used a magnifying glass to
            actually decide there was something there. There was no scorching and
            electricially the connection were all good.

            I used a contact/board cleaning solution and blasted the area clean,
            rubbed off all remaining traces of the residue and then blasted it a
            couple of more times. Inspection with the magnifying glass revealed
            the area to look like the others after cleaning.

            I didn't install a Patterson jumper as there didn't appear to be any
            damage in need of repair.

            Hopefully I was able to catch the problem before it burned the board.
            Will monitor.

            Thanks to all for the advice.

            Mike

            --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "ldr214" <replytome@...> wrote:
            >
            > Here is what I have found so far.
            > 1. The black end plate on the meter side of the control box was not
            > there. Guess that prevents condensation or it got lost in a previous
            > repair/removal.
            >
            > 2. The end of the board that slides out and makes contact with the
            > input wire which has the filter in it is RTV'd to the the box. Guess
            > that keeps it from moving. Also keeps me from gently sliding it out so
            > I'm going to start removing a lot of silicon.
            >
            > 3. Looking inside towards pin 1 it looks like there may be some issue
            > with corrosion in that area but will not know until completing removal.
            >
            > 4. The filter and resistor are inside of heat shrink tape on this
            > installation. I can see the outline and feel an intact resistor.
            >
            >
            > Mike
            >
            >
            > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "ldr214" <replytome@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Tell me this didn't just happen.
            > >
            > > I read Doug's post last night, go to the store this morning and the AH
            > > meter lets out a squeal like a screech owl.
            > >
            > > I was about a block from home in light regen, voltage 175-180. (Regen
            > > squeal needs a voltage over 186 on my car.)
            > >
            > > I turned the key off and had the AH fuse out faster than the time it
            > > has taken me to type this far.
            > >
            > > Yesterday I had the service disconnect open while I worked on my
            > > flacky ignition switch. I was in the area close to the AH box but not
            > > working with any of the wiring that goes to or from it.
            > >
            > > The noise wasn't anything like the sound a relay would be capable of
            > > making. Very high pitched grating sound, more like a alarm tone in a
            > > PC buzzer.
            > >
            > > Will check the connections and further examine as needed. The display
            > > was still working so I don't know if the cause and results fit the
            > > other failures.
            > >
            > > So much for logging each AH usage on the new pack. Although the
            > > odometer is a pretty close estimate.
            > >
            > > The AH reading on last nights short trip seemed to be about 1 AH
            > > better than it should have been. It is possible that it might have cut
            > > out early on the trip last night. Have noticed no other AH related
            > > problems and I have been logging data very closely on these AGM
            > > batteries.
            > >
            > > Will update if and when I find anything.
            > >
            > > Mike Rydjord
            > > 97 Force
            > > 24175 mi
            > >
            >





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • ldr214
            Dave thanks for your added thoughts. After cleaning the board I could see essentially no difference between the area around the #1 and 2 pins and the rest of
            Message 5 of 10 , Jan 15, 2008
            • 0 Attachment
              Dave thanks for your added thoughts.

              After cleaning the board I could see essentially no difference between
              the area around the #1 and 2 pins and the rest of the board. But I
              still considered adding the jumper.

              But if I added the jumper the viable trace on the board would still be
              there. The jumper would likely be a lower resistance path than the
              fine trace but any new problem in that area of the board might still
              result in a short.

              I could cut the trace and isolate that area.

              My thought considering all the fuses and resistor were all intact was
              to monitor and reinspect. I really hated to cut the trace, because as
              you mentioned this would be a opening in the surface coating. And the
              cut would be final.

              When I was cleaning the area I was able to open a visible "tunnel"
              between the 1 & 2 pins. That area definitely had the residue in it
              before cleaning.

              My impression is this is a contaminate left over from the initial
              assembly.

              The service manual labeling indicates that pins 1 @ 2 are pack voltage
              used by the voltmeter. I'm not sure if this means exclusively and is
              just a over simplification.

              Are they required by the AH meter also?

              Has everyone found the box open on the end with the locking connector?
              I will close it if they haven't.

              Will be using the car over the next few days. So far it has been good.

              I have a couple of pictures of the board. Can post them if members
              would like to see what this thing looks like. As they say a picture is
              worth a thousand.......

              Mike

              --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "David Patterson"
              <DRPatterson@...> wrote:
              >
              > All:
              >
              > With Doug's and Mike's recent comments regarding intermittent meter
              behavior, I am not sure that a simple cleaning of the area is a long
              term solution to the circuit board shorting problem, if related.
              >
              > More thoughts: Commercial circuit boards, particularly those used in
              severe environments (wide temperature ranges, high moisture, high
              voltage, etc.) are coated with a heavy lacquer like material
              (conformal coating) to protect the copper foil patterns. The failure
              on coated boards must have a path through the coating to the
              conductors and then across the surface. I had speculated on moisture
              being a problem on the surface.
              >
              > The reference to the "light residue" on the surface in recent
              postings reminded me on some boards I also saw this residue, which
              appeared like a light gray discolorization on the surface near (over)
              the two conductors. This board had shorted. I believe the conformal
              coating material had become "carbonized" and was in fact a short. On
              one other board, I have also seen severe burnt areas with a"crater"
              1/8 inch in diameter with charred material deep into the surface of
              the positive foil conductor area between the two conductors, with
              coatings completely gone, obviously shorted.
              >
              > Some of these failures could also be from not cleaning the boards
              completely during production before the conformal coatings were
              applied, trapping potentially conductive material between the foil
              patterns.
              >
              > Some of these boards are now getting well over 10 years old and I
              think the conformal coating may be failing from age and temperature
              cycling more than moisture on the surface, alone. There may be pin
              holes or cracks to the surface. Moisture may help establish the
              conducting path. For this reason, if you cannot bypass that area I
              would suggest you re-coat the surface with RTV or other high voltage
              conformal coating after cleaning, and check it occasionally for the
              re-occurrence of the surface discolorization, before more serious
              problems develop.
              >
              > David Patterson
              >
              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: ldr214
              > To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 6:09 PM
              > Subject: [SPAM] [solectria_ev] Re: AH Problem -- Is it a Virus?
              >
              >
              > I have it back in the car and so far it is working normally again.
              >
              > Forget my #2 observation. Because one end of the box was already open
              > I was thinking that the board came out in that direction. Not so. It
              > removes towards the wiring with the filter.
              >
              > I found a very small amount of what could best be described as a light
              > residue around the #1 contact post. I used a magnifying glass to
              > actually decide there was something there. There was no scorching and
              > electricially the connection were all good.
              >
              > I used a contact/board cleaning solution and blasted the area clean,
              > rubbed off all remaining traces of the residue and then blasted it a
              > couple of more times. Inspection with the magnifying glass revealed
              > the area to look like the others after cleaning.
              >
              > I didn't install a Patterson jumper as there didn't appear to be any
              > damage in need of repair.
              >
              > Hopefully I was able to catch the problem before it burned the board.
              > Will monitor.
              >
              > Thanks to all for the advice.
              >
              > Mike
              >
              > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "ldr214" <replytome@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Here is what I have found so far.
              > > 1. The black end plate on the meter side of the control box was not
              > > there. Guess that prevents condensation or it got lost in a previous
              > > repair/removal.
              > >
              > > 2. The end of the board that slides out and makes contact with the
              > > input wire which has the filter in it is RTV'd to the the box. Guess
              > > that keeps it from moving. Also keeps me from gently sliding it
              out so
              > > I'm going to start removing a lot of silicon.
              > >
              > > 3. Looking inside towards pin 1 it looks like there may be some
              issue
              > > with corrosion in that area but will not know until completing
              removal.
              > >
              > > 4. The filter and resistor are inside of heat shrink tape on this
              > > installation. I can see the outline and feel an intact resistor.
              > >
              > >
              > > Mike
              > >
              > >
              > > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "ldr214" <replytome@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > Tell me this didn't just happen.
              > > >
              > > > I read Doug's post last night, go to the store this morning
              and the AH
              > > > meter lets out a squeal like a screech owl.
              > > >
              > > > I was about a block from home in light regen, voltage 175-180.
              (Regen
              > > > squeal needs a voltage over 186 on my car.)
              > > >
              > > > I turned the key off and had the AH fuse out faster than the
              time it
              > > > has taken me to type this far.
              > > >
              > > > Yesterday I had the service disconnect open while I worked on my
              > > > flacky ignition switch. I was in the area close to the AH box
              but not
              > > > working with any of the wiring that goes to or from it.
              > > >
              > > > The noise wasn't anything like the sound a relay would be
              capable of
              > > > making. Very high pitched grating sound, more like a alarm
              tone in a
              > > > PC buzzer.
              > > >
              > > > Will check the connections and further examine as needed. The
              display
              > > > was still working so I don't know if the cause and results fit the
              > > > other failures.
              > > >
              > > > So much for logging each AH usage on the new pack. Although the
              > > > odometer is a pretty close estimate.
              > > >
              > > > The AH reading on last nights short trip seemed to be about 1 AH
              > > > better than it should have been. It is possible that it might
              have cut
              > > > out early on the trip last night. Have noticed no other AH related
              > > > problems and I have been logging data very closely on these AGM
              > > > batteries.
              > > >
              > > > Will update if and when I find anything.
              > > >
              > > > Mike Rydjord
              > > > 97 Force
              > > > 24175 mi
              > > >
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • Joshua Goldstein
              ... Yes, I did anyway, and I should have clarified that it s closed at only one end and slides out at that end after removing the four screws (assuming you can
              Message 6 of 10 , Jan 15, 2008
              • 0 Attachment
                > Has everyone found the box open on the end with the locking connector?

                Yes, I did anyway, and I should have clarified that it's closed at only one
                end and slides out at that end after removing the four screws (assuming you
                can get your fingernails between the end plate and the box).
                I'm not sure if closing the other end would make condensation worse or
                better. But it occurs to me that the positioning of the box under the dash
                could affect where any condensation goes to. Perhaps there's a position
                where either water wouldn't condense inside (open end higher?) or any
                condensate would go in a different direction than ending up at pins 1 and 2
                where a drop of water can cause the pitting/scorching short (e.g. board
                positioned upside down?).
                Mine is working perfectly now after the repair. Maybe the rest of you
                (humid climate residents) can use prevention successfully...
                Joshua Goldstein ('99 Force)

                [I cut off the bottom of this string of messages which was getting long --
                see an earlier message in the thread if you want the whole thing]


                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "ldr214" <replytome@...>
                To: <solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 12:41 PM
                Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: More Thoughts on AH Meter Circuit Board Failure


                > Dave thanks for your added thoughts.
                >
                > After cleaning the board I could see essentially no difference between
                > the area around the #1 and 2 pins and the rest of the board. But I
                > still considered adding the jumper.
                >
                > But if I added the jumper the viable trace on the board would still be
                > there. The jumper would likely be a lower resistance path than the
                > fine trace but any new problem in that area of the board might still
                > result in a short.
                >
                > I could cut the trace and isolate that area.
                >
                > My thought considering all the fuses and resistor were all intact was
                > to monitor and reinspect. I really hated to cut the trace, because as
                > you mentioned this would be a opening in the surface coating. And the
                > cut would be final.
                >
                > When I was cleaning the area I was able to open a visible "tunnel"
                > between the 1 & 2 pins. That area definitely had the residue in it
                > before cleaning.
                >
                > My impression is this is a contaminate left over from the initial
                > assembly.
                >
                > The service manual labeling indicates that pins 1 @ 2 are pack voltage
                > used by the voltmeter. I'm not sure if this means exclusively and is
                > just a over simplification.
                >
                > Are they required by the AH meter also?
                >
                > Has everyone found the box open on the end with the locking connector?
                > I will close it if they haven't.
                >
                > Will be using the car over the next few days. So far it has been good.
                >
                > I have a couple of pictures of the board. Can post them if members
                > would like to see what this thing looks like. As they say a picture is
                > worth a thousand.......
                >
                > Mike
                >
                > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "David Patterson"
                > <DRPatterson@...> wrote:
                >>
                >> All:
                >>
                >> With Doug's and Mike's recent comments regarding intermittent meter
                > behavior, I am not sure that a simple cleaning of the area is a long
                > term solution to the circuit board shorting problem, if related.
                >>
                >> More thoughts: Commercial circuit boards, particularly those used in
                > severe environments (wide temperature ranges, high moisture, high
                > voltage, etc.) are coated with a heavy lacquer like material
                > (conformal coating) to protect the copper foil patterns. The failure
                > on coated boards must have a path through the coating to the
                > conductors and then across the surface. I had speculated on moisture
                > being a problem on the surface.
                >>
                >> The reference to the "light residue" on the surface in recent
                > postings reminded me on some boards I also saw this residue, which
                > appeared like a light gray discolorization on the surface near (over)
                > the two conductors. This board had shorted. I believe the conformal
                > coating material had become "carbonized" and was in fact a short. On
                > one other board, I have also seen severe burnt areas with a"crater"
                > 1/8 inch in diameter with charred material deep into the surface of
                > the positive foil conductor area between the two conductors, with
                > coatings completely gone, obviously shorted.
                >>
                >> Some of these failures could also be from not cleaning the boards
                > completely during production before the conformal coatings were
                > applied, trapping potentially conductive material between the foil
                > patterns.
                >>
                >> Some of these boards are now getting well over 10 years old and I
                > think the conformal coating may be failing from age and temperature
                > cycling more than moisture on the surface, alone. There may be pin
                > holes or cracks to the surface. Moisture may help establish the
                > conducting path. For this reason, if you cannot bypass that area I
                > would suggest you re-coat the surface with RTV or other high voltage
                > conformal coating after cleaning, and check it occasionally for the
                > re-occurrence of the surface discolorization, before more serious
                > problems develop.
                >>
                >> David Patterson
                >>
                >>
                >> ----- Original Message -----
                >> From: ldr214
                >> To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                >> Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 6:09 PM
                >> Subject: [SPAM] [solectria_ev] Re: AH Problem -- Is it a Virus?
                >>
                >>
                >> I have it back in the car and so far it is working normally again.
                >>
                >> Forget my #2 observation. Because one end of the box was already open
                >> I was thinking that the board came out in that direction. Not so. It
                >> removes towards the wiring with the filter.
                >>
                >> I found a very small amount of what could best be described as a light
                >> residue around the #1 contact post. I used a magnifying glass to
                >> actually decide there was something there. There was no scorching and
                >> electricially the connection were all good.
                >>
                >> I used a contact/board cleaning solution and blasted the area clean,
                >> rubbed off all remaining traces of the residue and then blasted it a
                >> couple of more times. Inspection with the magnifying glass revealed
                >> the area to look like the others after cleaning.
                >>
                >> I didn't install a Patterson jumper as there didn't appear to be any
                >> damage in need of repair.
                >>
                >> Hopefully I was able to catch the problem before it burned the board.
                >> Will monitor.
                >>
                >> Thanks to all for the advice.
                >>
                >> Mike
                >>
              • David Patterson
                Mike: If you monitor the situation on the surface between the pins, you may be OK. If you later decide to add the jumper I would suggest cutting all traces
                Message 7 of 10 , Jan 15, 2008
                • 0 Attachment
                  Mike:
                  If you monitor the situation on the surface between the pins, you may be OK. If you later decide to add the jumper I would suggest cutting all traces bringing positive voltage back into that area to isolate fully.

                  The raw battery voltage is regulated inside the meter down to +5 volts to power the AH meter and supplies full voltage to the voltmeter. Yes, 156 volts, down to low voltage for the sensitive, low current, CMOS integrated circuits. This is how they power the meter board and the IC display driver on the back of the meter up on the dash, after regulation and more filtering. I am surprised they did not have more problems in that part of the circuit. But it survives this noisy environment and works.

                  David Patterson

                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: ldr214
                  To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 9:41 AM
                  Subject: [SPAM] [solectria_ev] Re: More Thoughts on AH Meter Circuit Board Failure


                  Dave thanks for your added thoughts.

                  After cleaning the board I could see essentially no difference between
                  the area around the #1 and 2 pins and the rest of the board. But I
                  still considered adding the jumper.

                  But if I added the jumper the viable trace on the board would still be
                  there. The jumper would likely be a lower resistance path than the
                  fine trace but any new problem in that area of the board might still
                  result in a short.

                  I could cut the trace and isolate that area.

                  My thought considering all the fuses and resistor were all intact was
                  to monitor and reinspect. I really hated to cut the trace, because as
                  you mentioned this would be a opening in the surface coating. And the
                  cut would be final.

                  When I was cleaning the area I was able to open a visible "tunnel"
                  between the 1 & 2 pins. That area definitely had the residue in it
                  before cleaning.

                  My impression is this is a contaminate left over from the initial
                  assembly.

                  The service manual labeling indicates that pins 1 @ 2 are pack voltage
                  used by the voltmeter. I'm not sure if this means exclusively and is
                  just a over simplification.

                  Are they required by the AH meter also?

                  Has everyone found the box open on the end with the locking connector?
                  I will close it if they haven't.

                  Will be using the car over the next few days. So far it has been good.

                  I have a couple of pictures of the board. Can post them if members
                  would like to see what this thing looks like. As they say a picture is
                  worth a thousand.......

                  Mike

                  --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "David Patterson"
                  <DRPatterson@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > All:
                  >
                  > With Doug's and Mike's recent comments regarding intermittent meter
                  behavior, I am not sure that a simple cleaning of the area is a long
                  term solution to the circuit board shorting problem, if related.
                  >
                  > More thoughts: Commercial circuit boards, particularly those used in
                  severe environments (wide temperature ranges, high moisture, high
                  voltage, etc.) are coated with a heavy lacquer like material
                  (conformal coating) to protect the copper foil patterns. The failure
                  on coated boards must have a path through the coating to the
                  conductors and then across the surface. I had speculated on moisture
                  being a problem on the surface.
                  >
                  > The reference to the "light residue" on the surface in recent
                  postings reminded me on some boards I also saw this residue, which
                  appeared like a light gray discolorization on the surface near (over)
                  the two conductors. This board had shorted. I believe the conformal
                  coating material had become "carbonized" and was in fact a short. On
                  one other board, I have also seen severe burnt areas with a"crater"
                  1/8 inch in diameter with charred material deep into the surface of
                  the positive foil conductor area between the two conductors, with
                  coatings completely gone, obviously shorted.
                  >
                  > Some of these failures could also be from not cleaning the boards
                  completely during production before the conformal coatings were
                  applied, trapping potentially conductive material between the foil
                  patterns.
                  >
                  > Some of these boards are now getting well over 10 years old and I
                  think the conformal coating may be failing from age and temperature
                  cycling more than moisture on the surface, alone. There may be pin
                  holes or cracks to the surface. Moisture may help establish the
                  conducting path. For this reason, if you cannot bypass that area I
                  would suggest you re-coat the surface with RTV or other high voltage
                  conformal coating after cleaning, and check it occasionally for the
                  re-occurrence of the surface discolorization, before more serious
                  problems develop.
                  >
                  > David Patterson
                  >
                  >
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: ldr214
                  > To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                  > Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 6:09 PM
                  > Subject: [SPAM] [solectria_ev] Re: AH Problem -- Is it a Virus?
                  >
                  >
                  > I have it back in the car and so far it is working normally again.
                  >
                  > Forget my #2 observation. Because one end of the box was already open
                  > I was thinking that the board came out in that direction. Not so. It
                  > removes towards the wiring with the filter.
                  >
                  > I found a very small amount of what could best be described as a light
                  > residue around the #1 contact post. I used a magnifying glass to
                  > actually decide there was something there. There was no scorching and
                  > electricially the connection were all good.
                  >
                  > I used a contact/board cleaning solution and blasted the area clean,
                  > rubbed off all remaining traces of the residue and then blasted it a
                  > couple of more times. Inspection with the magnifying glass revealed
                  > the area to look like the others after cleaning.
                  >
                  > I didn't install a Patterson jumper as there didn't appear to be any
                  > damage in need of repair.
                  >
                  > Hopefully I was able to catch the problem before it burned the board.
                  > Will monitor.
                  >
                  > Thanks to all for the advice.
                  >
                  > Mike
                  >
                  > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "ldr214" <replytome@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Here is what I have found so far.
                  > > 1. The black end plate on the meter side of the control box was not
                  > > there. Guess that prevents condensation or it got lost in a previous
                  > > repair/removal.
                  > >
                  > > 2. The end of the board that slides out and makes contact with the
                  > > input wire which has the filter in it is RTV'd to the the box. Guess
                  > > that keeps it from moving. Also keeps me from gently sliding it
                  out so
                  > > I'm going to start removing a lot of silicon.
                  > >
                  > > 3. Looking inside towards pin 1 it looks like there may be some
                  issue
                  > > with corrosion in that area but will not know until completing
                  removal.
                  > >
                  > > 4. The filter and resistor are inside of heat shrink tape on this
                  > > installation. I can see the outline and feel an intact resistor.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Mike
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "ldr214" <replytome@> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > Tell me this didn't just happen.
                  > > >
                  > > > I read Doug's post last night, go to the store this morning
                  and the AH
                  > > > meter lets out a squeal like a screech owl.
                  > > >
                  > > > I was about a block from home in light regen, voltage 175-180.
                  (Regen
                  > > > squeal needs a voltage over 186 on my car.)
                  > > >
                  > > > I turned the key off and had the AH fuse out faster than the
                  time it
                  > > > has taken me to type this far.
                  > > >
                  > > > Yesterday I had the service disconnect open while I worked on my
                  > > > flacky ignition switch. I was in the area close to the AH box
                  but not
                  > > > working with any of the wiring that goes to or from it.
                  > > >
                  > > > The noise wasn't anything like the sound a relay would be
                  capable of
                  > > > making. Very high pitched grating sound, more like a alarm
                  tone in a
                  > > > PC buzzer.
                  > > >
                  > > > Will check the connections and further examine as needed. The
                  display
                  > > > was still working so I don't know if the cause and results fit the
                  > > > other failures.
                  > > >
                  > > > So much for logging each AH usage on the new pack. Although the
                  > > > odometer is a pretty close estimate.
                  > > >
                  > > > The AH reading on last nights short trip seemed to be about 1 AH
                  > > > better than it should have been. It is possible that it might
                  have cut
                  > > > out early on the trip last night. Have noticed no other AH related
                  > > > problems and I have been logging data very closely on these AGM
                  > > > batteries.
                  > > >
                  > > > Will update if and when I find anything.
                  > > >
                  > > > Mike Rydjord
                  > > > 97 Force
                  > > > 24175 mi
                  > > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >





                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Mike Phillips
                  Hi David, When I repair the US Electricar boards, I don t see carbon tracking or conformal coating failures. Our boards are mostly from 1993/1994. I think it
                  Message 8 of 10 , Jan 15, 2008
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Hi David,

                    When I repair the US Electricar boards, I don't see carbon tracking or
                    conformal coating failures. Our boards are mostly from 1993/1994. I
                    think it may be because the conformal coating on our boards is
                    silicone not acrylic. I think acrylic is just too hard and it fails
                    electrically with a life full of thermal cycles. I'm also suspicious
                    of acrylic becoming more conductive as it ages.

                    I noticed at Fry's, a local mega retailer, that they have little
                    bottles of various conformal coatings. Silicone and acrylic are there.
                    Has anyone tried silicone liquid? I think the problem with silicone in
                    a tube is that it won't displace the air, and allows a potential
                    conductive path for high voltage with trapped air.

                    Hope this helps.

                    Mike



                    --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "David Patterson"
                    <DRPatterson@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > All:
                    >
                    > With Doug's and Mike's recent comments regarding intermittent meter
                    behavior, I am not sure that a simple cleaning of the area is a long
                    term solution to the circuit board shorting problem, if related.
                    >
                    > More thoughts: Commercial circuit boards, particularly those used in
                    severe environments (wide temperature ranges, high moisture, high
                    voltage, etc.) are coated with a heavy lacquer like material
                    (conformal coating) to protect the copper foil patterns. The failure
                    on coated boards must have a path through the coating to the
                    conductors and then across the surface. I had speculated on moisture
                    being a problem on the surface.
                    >
                    > The reference to the "light residue" on the surface in recent
                    postings reminded me on some boards I also saw this residue, which
                    appeared like a light gray discolorization on the surface near (over)
                    the two conductors. This board had shorted. I believe the conformal
                    coating material had become "carbonized" and was in fact a short. On
                    one other board, I have also seen severe burnt areas with a"crater"
                    1/8 inch in diameter with charred material deep into the surface of
                    the positive foil conductor area between the two conductors, with
                    coatings completely gone, obviously shorted.
                    >
                    > Some of these failures could also be from not cleaning the boards
                    completely during production before the conformal coatings were
                    applied, trapping potentially conductive material between the foil
                    patterns.
                    >
                    > Some of these boards are now getting well over 10 years old and I
                    think the conformal coating may be failing from age and temperature
                    cycling more than moisture on the surface, alone. There may be pin
                    holes or cracks to the surface. Moisture may help establish the
                    conducting path. For this reason, if you cannot bypass that area I
                    would suggest you re-coat the surface with RTV or other high voltage
                    conformal coating after cleaning, and check it occasionally for the
                    re-occurrence of the surface discolorization, before more serious
                    problems develop.
                    >
                    > David Patterson
                    >
                    >
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: ldr214
                    > To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                    > Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 6:09 PM
                    > Subject: [SPAM] [solectria_ev] Re: AH Problem -- Is it a Virus?
                    >
                    >
                    > I have it back in the car and so far it is working normally again.
                    >
                    > Forget my #2 observation. Because one end of the box was already open
                    > I was thinking that the board came out in that direction. Not so. It
                    > removes towards the wiring with the filter.
                    >
                    > I found a very small amount of what could best be described as a light
                    > residue around the #1 contact post. I used a magnifying glass to
                    > actually decide there was something there. There was no scorching and
                    > electricially the connection were all good.
                    >
                    > I used a contact/board cleaning solution and blasted the area clean,
                    > rubbed off all remaining traces of the residue and then blasted it a
                    > couple of more times. Inspection with the magnifying glass revealed
                    > the area to look like the others after cleaning.
                    >
                    > I didn't install a Patterson jumper as there didn't appear to be any
                    > damage in need of repair.
                    >
                    > Hopefully I was able to catch the problem before it burned the board.
                    > Will monitor.
                    >
                    > Thanks to all for the advice.
                    >
                    > Mike
                    >
                    > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "ldr214" <replytome@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Here is what I have found so far.
                    > > 1. The black end plate on the meter side of the control box was not
                    > > there. Guess that prevents condensation or it got lost in a previous
                    > > repair/removal.
                    > >
                    > > 2. The end of the board that slides out and makes contact with the
                    > > input wire which has the filter in it is RTV'd to the the box. Guess
                    > > that keeps it from moving. Also keeps me from gently sliding it
                    out so
                    > > I'm going to start removing a lot of silicon.
                    > >
                    > > 3. Looking inside towards pin 1 it looks like there may be some
                    issue
                    > > with corrosion in that area but will not know until completing
                    removal.
                    > >
                    > > 4. The filter and resistor are inside of heat shrink tape on this
                    > > installation. I can see the outline and feel an intact resistor.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Mike
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "ldr214" <replytome@> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > Tell me this didn't just happen.
                    > > >
                    > > > I read Doug's post last night, go to the store this morning
                    and the AH
                    > > > meter lets out a squeal like a screech owl.
                    > > >
                    > > > I was about a block from home in light regen, voltage 175-180.
                    (Regen
                    > > > squeal needs a voltage over 186 on my car.)
                    > > >
                    > > > I turned the key off and had the AH fuse out faster than the
                    time it
                    > > > has taken me to type this far.
                    > > >
                    > > > Yesterday I had the service disconnect open while I worked on my
                    > > > flacky ignition switch. I was in the area close to the AH box
                    but not
                    > > > working with any of the wiring that goes to or from it.
                    > > >
                    > > > The noise wasn't anything like the sound a relay would be
                    capable of
                    > > > making. Very high pitched grating sound, more like a alarm
                    tone in a
                    > > > PC buzzer.
                    > > >
                    > > > Will check the connections and further examine as needed. The
                    display
                    > > > was still working so I don't know if the cause and results fit the
                    > > > other failures.
                    > > >
                    > > > So much for logging each AH usage on the new pack. Although the
                    > > > odometer is a pretty close estimate.
                    > > >
                    > > > The AH reading on last nights short trip seemed to be about 1 AH
                    > > > better than it should have been. It is possible that it might
                    have cut
                    > > > out early on the trip last night. Have noticed no other AH related
                    > > > problems and I have been logging data very closely on these AGM
                    > > > batteries.
                    > > >
                    > > > Will update if and when I find anything.
                    > > >
                    > > > Mike Rydjord
                    > > > 97 Force
                    > > > 24175 mi
                    > > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                  • Mike Phillips
                    I d sure like to see the pics of your board. Mike ... open ... light ... scorching and ... board. ... was not ... previous ... Guess ... fit the ... related
                    Message 9 of 10 , Jan 15, 2008
                    • 0 Attachment
                      I'd sure like to see the pics of your board.

                      Mike



                      >
                      > I have a couple of pictures of the board. Can post them if members
                      > would like to see what this thing looks like. As they say a picture is
                      > worth a thousand.......
                      >
                      > Mike
                      >
                      > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "David Patterson"
                      > <DRPatterson@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > All:
                      > >
                      > > With Doug's and Mike's recent comments regarding intermittent meter
                      > behavior, I am not sure that a simple cleaning of the area is a long
                      > term solution to the circuit board shorting problem, if related.
                      > >
                      > > More thoughts: Commercial circuit boards, particularly those used in
                      > severe environments (wide temperature ranges, high moisture, high
                      > voltage, etc.) are coated with a heavy lacquer like material
                      > (conformal coating) to protect the copper foil patterns. The failure
                      > on coated boards must have a path through the coating to the
                      > conductors and then across the surface. I had speculated on moisture
                      > being a problem on the surface.
                      > >
                      > > The reference to the "light residue" on the surface in recent
                      > postings reminded me on some boards I also saw this residue, which
                      > appeared like a light gray discolorization on the surface near (over)
                      > the two conductors. This board had shorted. I believe the conformal
                      > coating material had become "carbonized" and was in fact a short. On
                      > one other board, I have also seen severe burnt areas with a"crater"
                      > 1/8 inch in diameter with charred material deep into the surface of
                      > the positive foil conductor area between the two conductors, with
                      > coatings completely gone, obviously shorted.
                      > >
                      > > Some of these failures could also be from not cleaning the boards
                      > completely during production before the conformal coatings were
                      > applied, trapping potentially conductive material between the foil
                      > patterns.
                      > >
                      > > Some of these boards are now getting well over 10 years old and I
                      > think the conformal coating may be failing from age and temperature
                      > cycling more than moisture on the surface, alone. There may be pin
                      > holes or cracks to the surface. Moisture may help establish the
                      > conducting path. For this reason, if you cannot bypass that area I
                      > would suggest you re-coat the surface with RTV or other high voltage
                      > conformal coating after cleaning, and check it occasionally for the
                      > re-occurrence of the surface discolorization, before more serious
                      > problems develop.
                      > >
                      > > David Patterson
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > ----- Original Message -----
                      > > From: ldr214
                      > > To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                      > > Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 6:09 PM
                      > > Subject: [SPAM] [solectria_ev] Re: AH Problem -- Is it a Virus?
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > I have it back in the car and so far it is working normally again.
                      > >
                      > > Forget my #2 observation. Because one end of the box was already
                      open
                      > > I was thinking that the board came out in that direction. Not so. It
                      > > removes towards the wiring with the filter.
                      > >
                      > > I found a very small amount of what could best be described as a
                      light
                      > > residue around the #1 contact post. I used a magnifying glass to
                      > > actually decide there was something there. There was no
                      scorching and
                      > > electricially the connection were all good.
                      > >
                      > > I used a contact/board cleaning solution and blasted the area clean,
                      > > rubbed off all remaining traces of the residue and then blasted it a
                      > > couple of more times. Inspection with the magnifying glass revealed
                      > > the area to look like the others after cleaning.
                      > >
                      > > I didn't install a Patterson jumper as there didn't appear to be any
                      > > damage in need of repair.
                      > >
                      > > Hopefully I was able to catch the problem before it burned the
                      board.
                      > > Will monitor.
                      > >
                      > > Thanks to all for the advice.
                      > >
                      > > Mike
                      > >
                      > > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "ldr214" <replytome@> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > Here is what I have found so far.
                      > > > 1. The black end plate on the meter side of the control box
                      was not
                      > > > there. Guess that prevents condensation or it got lost in a
                      previous
                      > > > repair/removal.
                      > > >
                      > > > 2. The end of the board that slides out and makes contact with the
                      > > > input wire which has the filter in it is RTV'd to the the box.
                      Guess
                      > > > that keeps it from moving. Also keeps me from gently sliding it
                      > out so
                      > > > I'm going to start removing a lot of silicon.
                      > > >
                      > > > 3. Looking inside towards pin 1 it looks like there may be some
                      > issue
                      > > > with corrosion in that area but will not know until completing
                      > removal.
                      > > >
                      > > > 4. The filter and resistor are inside of heat shrink tape on this
                      > > > installation. I can see the outline and feel an intact resistor.
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > Mike
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "ldr214" <replytome@> wrote:
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Tell me this didn't just happen.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > I read Doug's post last night, go to the store this morning
                      > and the AH
                      > > > > meter lets out a squeal like a screech owl.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > I was about a block from home in light regen, voltage 175-180.
                      > (Regen
                      > > > > squeal needs a voltage over 186 on my car.)
                      > > > >
                      > > > > I turned the key off and had the AH fuse out faster than the
                      > time it
                      > > > > has taken me to type this far.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Yesterday I had the service disconnect open while I worked on my
                      > > > > flacky ignition switch. I was in the area close to the AH box
                      > but not
                      > > > > working with any of the wiring that goes to or from it.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > The noise wasn't anything like the sound a relay would be
                      > capable of
                      > > > > making. Very high pitched grating sound, more like a alarm
                      > tone in a
                      > > > > PC buzzer.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Will check the connections and further examine as needed. The
                      > display
                      > > > > was still working so I don't know if the cause and results
                      fit the
                      > > > > other failures.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > So much for logging each AH usage on the new pack. Although the
                      > > > > odometer is a pretty close estimate.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > The AH reading on last nights short trip seemed to be about 1 AH
                      > > > > better than it should have been. It is possible that it might
                      > have cut
                      > > > > out early on the trip last night. Have noticed no other AH
                      related
                      > > > > problems and I have been logging data very closely on these AGM
                      > > > > batteries.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Will update if and when I find anything.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Mike Rydjord
                      > > > > 97 Force
                      > > > > 24175 mi
                      > > > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > >
                      >
                    • David Patterson
                      Thanks Mike for you inputs on the Silicon conformal coating option rather than RTV for those considering repair the suspect area. I think your right about the
                      Message 10 of 10 , Jan 16, 2008
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Thanks Mike for you inputs on the Silicon conformal coating option rather than RTV for those considering repair the suspect area. I think your right about the conformal coating failure being aggravated by age, thermal cycles and/or moisture.

                        David Patterson

                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: Mike Phillips
                        To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 11:27 PM
                        Subject: [SPAM] [solectria_ev] Re: More Thoughts on AH Meter Circuit Board Failure


                        Hi David,

                        When I repair the US Electricar boards, I don't see carbon tracking or
                        conformal coating failures. Our boards are mostly from 1993/1994. I
                        think it may be because the conformal coating on our boards is
                        silicone not acrylic. I think acrylic is just too hard and it fails
                        electrically with a life full of thermal cycles. I'm also suspicious
                        of acrylic becoming more conductive as it ages.

                        I noticed at Fry's, a local mega retailer, that they have little
                        bottles of various conformal coatings. Silicone and acrylic are there.
                        Has anyone tried silicone liquid? I think the problem with silicone in
                        a tube is that it won't displace the air, and allows a potential
                        conductive path for high voltage with trapped air.

                        Hope this helps.

                        Mike

                        --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "David Patterson"
                        <DRPatterson@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > All:
                        >
                        > With Doug's and Mike's recent comments regarding intermittent meter
                        behavior, I am not sure that a simple cleaning of the area is a long
                        term solution to the circuit board shorting problem, if related.
                        >
                        > More thoughts: Commercial circuit boards, particularly those used in
                        severe environments (wide temperature ranges, high moisture, high
                        voltage, etc.) are coated with a heavy lacquer like material
                        (conformal coating) to protect the copper foil patterns. The failure
                        on coated boards must have a path through the coating to the
                        conductors and then across the surface. I had speculated on moisture
                        being a problem on the surface.
                        >
                        > The reference to the "light residue" on the surface in recent
                        postings reminded me on some boards I also saw this residue, which
                        appeared like a light gray discolorization on the surface near (over)
                        the two conductors. This board had shorted. I believe the conformal
                        coating material had become "carbonized" and was in fact a short. On
                        one other board, I have also seen severe burnt areas with a"crater"
                        1/8 inch in diameter with charred material deep into the surface of
                        the positive foil conductor area between the two conductors, with
                        coatings completely gone, obviously shorted.
                        >
                        > Some of these failures could also be from not cleaning the boards
                        completely during production before the conformal coatings were
                        applied, trapping potentially conductive material between the foil
                        patterns.
                        >
                        > Some of these boards are now getting well over 10 years old and I
                        think the conformal coating may be failing from age and temperature
                        cycling more than moisture on the surface, alone. There may be pin
                        holes or cracks to the surface. Moisture may help establish the
                        conducting path. For this reason, if you cannot bypass that area I
                        would suggest you re-coat the surface with RTV or other high voltage
                        conformal coating after cleaning, and check it occasionally for the
                        re-occurrence of the surface discolorization, before more serious
                        problems develop.
                        >
                        > David Patterson
                        >
                        >
                        > ----- Original Message -----
                        > From: ldr214
                        > To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                        > Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 6:09 PM
                        > Subject: [SPAM] [solectria_ev] Re: AH Problem -- Is it a Virus?
                        >
                        >
                        > I have it back in the car and so far it is working normally again.
                        >
                        > Forget my #2 observation. Because one end of the box was already open
                        > I was thinking that the board came out in that direction. Not so. It
                        > removes towards the wiring with the filter.
                        >
                        > I found a very small amount of what could best be described as a light
                        > residue around the #1 contact post. I used a magnifying glass to
                        > actually decide there was something there. There was no scorching and
                        > electricially the connection were all good.
                        >
                        > I used a contact/board cleaning solution and blasted the area clean,
                        > rubbed off all remaining traces of the residue and then blasted it a
                        > couple of more times. Inspection with the magnifying glass revealed
                        > the area to look like the others after cleaning.
                        >
                        > I didn't install a Patterson jumper as there didn't appear to be any
                        > damage in need of repair.
                        >
                        > Hopefully I was able to catch the problem before it burned the board.
                        > Will monitor.
                        >
                        > Thanks to all for the advice.
                        >
                        > Mike
                        >
                        > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "ldr214" <replytome@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Here is what I have found so far.
                        > > 1. The black end plate on the meter side of the control box was not
                        > > there. Guess that prevents condensation or it got lost in a previous
                        > > repair/removal.
                        > >
                        > > 2. The end of the board that slides out and makes contact with the
                        > > input wire which has the filter in it is RTV'd to the the box. Guess
                        > > that keeps it from moving. Also keeps me from gently sliding it
                        out so
                        > > I'm going to start removing a lot of silicon.
                        > >
                        > > 3. Looking inside towards pin 1 it looks like there may be some
                        issue
                        > > with corrosion in that area but will not know until completing
                        removal.
                        > >
                        > > 4. The filter and resistor are inside of heat shrink tape on this
                        > > installation. I can see the outline and feel an intact resistor.
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Mike
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "ldr214" <replytome@> wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > Tell me this didn't just happen.
                        > > >
                        > > > I read Doug's post last night, go to the store this morning
                        and the AH
                        > > > meter lets out a squeal like a screech owl.
                        > > >
                        > > > I was about a block from home in light regen, voltage 175-180.
                        (Regen
                        > > > squeal needs a voltage over 186 on my car.)
                        > > >
                        > > > I turned the key off and had the AH fuse out faster than the
                        time it
                        > > > has taken me to type this far.
                        > > >
                        > > > Yesterday I had the service disconnect open while I worked on my
                        > > > flacky ignition switch. I was in the area close to the AH box
                        but not
                        > > > working with any of the wiring that goes to or from it.
                        > > >
                        > > > The noise wasn't anything like the sound a relay would be
                        capable of
                        > > > making. Very high pitched grating sound, more like a alarm
                        tone in a
                        > > > PC buzzer.
                        > > >
                        > > > Will check the connections and further examine as needed. The
                        display
                        > > > was still working so I don't know if the cause and results fit the
                        > > > other failures.
                        > > >
                        > > > So much for logging each AH usage on the new pack. Although the
                        > > > odometer is a pretty close estimate.
                        > > >
                        > > > The AH reading on last nights short trip seemed to be about 1 AH
                        > > > better than it should have been. It is possible that it might
                        have cut
                        > > > out early on the trip last night. Have noticed no other AH related
                        > > > problems and I have been logging data very closely on these AGM
                        > > > batteries.
                        > > >
                        > > > Will update if and when I find anything.
                        > > >
                        > > > Mike Rydjord
                        > > > 97 Force
                        > > > 24175 mi
                        > > >
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >





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