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Motor Connector Polarity

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  • Bill Swann
    I was going to test a friend s controller because, in his car, there is no response when the accelerator is pressed. He also has a marginal set of batteries.
    Message 1 of 19 , Nov 27, 2007
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      I was going to test a friend's controller because, in his car, there
      is no response when the accelerator is pressed. He also has a marginal
      set of batteries. (156 volt full charge) Someone suggested putting a
      questionable controller in a car with a known good battery set- mine.
      So after I made all of the connections, I noticed that the color coding
      on the main motor connector was reversed. That is, red-blue,white-
      white,blue-red, whereas my connector is red-red,blue-blue,white-white.
      I know that for a 3 phase motor, 2 legs are reversed to reverse the
      motor rotation direction. I halted the test at that point. Does anyone
      have any feedback/suggestions?
    • Bill Swann
      Has anyone tested the DB-25 connector that goes into the controller? What I mean is to insert a breakout male/female connector in the cable. and test for
      Message 2 of 19 , Dec 10, 2007
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        Has anyone tested the DB-25 connector that goes into the controller?
        What I mean is to insert a breakout male/female connector in the cable.
        and test for voltages per the schematic shown in the file (in the file
        section) called "E-10 Solectria Controllers AMCXXX.pdf"?
        Thanks, Bill S

        --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Swann" <dbswann4@...> wrote:
        >
        > I was going to test a friend's controller because, in his car, there
        > is no response when the accelerator is pressed. He also has a
        marginal
        > set of batteries. (156 volt full charge) Someone suggested putting a
        > questionable controller in a car with a known good battery set- mine.
        > So after I made all of the connections, I noticed that the color
        coding
        > on the main motor connector was reversed. That is, red-blue,white-
        > white,blue-red, whereas my connector is red-red,blue-blue,white-
        white.
        > I know that for a 3 phase motor, 2 legs are reversed to reverse the
        > motor rotation direction. I halted the test at that point. Does
        anyone
        > have any feedback/suggestions?
        >
      • Gerard (Gary) Carlson
        Greings: Three+ years ago I made a box that plugs into the DB-25 to imitate the FWD/REV, economy knob?and Throttle of the car.? I disconnected the drive belt
        Message 3 of 19 , Dec 10, 2007
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          Greings:

          Three+ years ago I made a box that plugs into the DB-25 to imitate the FWD/REV, economy knob?and Throttle of the car.? I disconnected the drive belt from the motor and "drove" the car from the box.? I used it to isolate a problem to either the car or the controller.? The controller is a Brusa AMC320.


          Gary Carlson
          gjc0@...


          -----Original Message-----
          From: Bill Swann <dbswann4@...>
          To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 1:30 pm
          Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: Motor Connector Polarity






          Has anyone tested the DB-25 connector that goes into the controller?
          What I mean is to insert a breakout male/female connector in the cable.
          and test for voltages per the schematic shown in the file (in the file
          section) called "E-10 Solectria Controllers AMCXXX.pdf"?
          Thanks, Bill S

          --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Swann" <dbswann4@...> wrote:
          >
          > I was going to test a friend's controller because, in his car, there
          > is no response when the accelerator is pressed. He also has a
          marginal
          > set of batteries. (156 volt full charge) Someone suggested putting a
          > questionable controller in a car with a known good battery set- mine.
          > So after I made all of the connections, I noticed that the color
          coding
          > on the main motor connector was reversed. That is, red-blue,white-
          > white,blue-red, whereas my connector is red-red,blue-blue,white-
          white.
          > I know that for a 3 phase motor, 2 legs are reversed to reverse the
          > motor rotation direction. I halted the test at that point. Does
          anyone
          > have any feedback/suggestions?
          >





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        • Dorothy Swann
          Thanks Gary. this is precisely the problem that I am addressing- No response when I press the accelerator . I had hoped to isolate the problem to the
          Message 4 of 19 , Dec 11, 2007
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            Thanks Gary. this is precisely the problem that I am addressing-"No response when I press the accelerator". I had hoped to isolate the problem to the controller or the car.
            Bill S


            ----- Original Message ----
            From: Gerard (Gary) Carlson <gjc0@...>
            To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 10:45:17 PM
            Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Re: Motor Connector Polarity

            Greings:

            Three+ years ago I made a box that plugs into the DB-25 to imitate the FWD/REV, economy knob?and Throttle of the car.? I disconnected the drive belt from the motor and "drove" the car from the box.? I used it to isolate a problem to either the car or the controller.? The controller is a Brusa AMC320.

            Gary Carlson
            gjc0@...

            -----Original Message-----
            From: Bill Swann <dbswann4@yahoo. com>
            To: solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com
            Sent: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 1:30 pm
            Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: Motor Connector Polarity

            Has anyone tested the DB-25 connector that goes into the controller?
            What I mean is to insert a breakout male/female connector in the cable.
            and test for voltages per the schematic shown in the file (in the file
            section) called "E-10 Solectria Controllers AMCXXX.pdf"?
            Thanks, Bill S

            --- In solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com, "Bill Swann" <dbswann4@.. .> wrote:
            >
            > I was going to test a friend's controller because, in his car, there
            > is no response when the accelerator is pressed. He also has a
            marginal
            > set of batteries. (156 volt full charge) Someone suggested putting a
            > questionable controller in a car with a known good battery set- mine.
            > So after I made all of the connections, I noticed that the color
            coding
            > on the main motor connector was reversed. That is, red-blue,white-
            > white,blue-red, whereas my connector is red-red,blue- blue,white-
            white.
            > I know that for a 3 phase motor, 2 legs are reversed to reverse the
            > motor rotation direction. I halted the test at that point. Does
            anyone
            > have any feedback/suggestion s?
            >

            ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
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            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Bill Swann
            I opened up the controller (AMC-325) to discover some fried MOSFETs. Has anyone been confronted with this, and what to do? Is the only repair facility
            Message 5 of 19 , Jan 6, 2008
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              I opened up the controller (AMC-325) to discover some fried MOSFETs.
              Has anyone been confronted with this, and what to do? Is the only
              repair facility www.Krispan.de ?
              Bill S
              --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, Dorothy Swann <dbswann4@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > Thanks Gary. this is precisely the problem that I am addressing-"No
              response when I press the accelerator". I had hoped to isolate the
              problem to the controller or the car.
              > Bill S
              >
              >
              > ----- Original Message ----
              > From: Gerard (Gary) Carlson <gjc0@...>
              > To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 10:45:17 PM
              > Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Re: Motor Connector Polarity
              >
              > Greings:
              >
              > Three+ years ago I made a box that plugs into the DB-25 to imitate
              the FWD/REV, economy knob?and Throttle of the car.? I disconnected
              the drive belt from the motor and "drove" the car from the box.? I
              used it to isolate a problem to either the car or the controller.?
              The controller is a Brusa AMC320.
              >
              > Gary Carlson
              > gjc0@...
              >
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: Bill Swann <dbswann4@yahoo. com>
              > To: solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com
              > Sent: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 1:30 pm
              > Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: Motor Connector Polarity
              >
              > Has anyone tested the DB-25 connector that goes into the controller?
              > What I mean is to insert a breakout male/female connector in the
              cable.
              > and test for voltages per the schematic shown in the file (in the
              file
              > section) called "E-10 Solectria Controllers AMCXXX.pdf"?
              > Thanks, Bill S
              >
              > --- In solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com, "Bill Swann" <dbswann4@ .>
              wrote:
              > >
              > > I was going to test a friend's controller because, in his car,
              there
              > > is no response when the accelerator is pressed. He also has a
              > marginal
              > > set of batteries. (156 volt full charge) Someone suggested
              putting a
              > > questionable controller in a car with a known good battery set-
              mine.
              > > So after I made all of the connections, I noticed that the color
              > coding
              > > on the main motor connector was reversed. That is, red-blue,white-
              > > white,blue-red, whereas my connector is red-red,blue- blue,white-
              > white.
              > > I know that for a 3 phase motor, 2 legs are reversed to reverse
              the
              > > motor rotation direction. I halted the test at that point. Does
              > anyone
              > > have any feedback/suggestion s?
              > >
              >
              > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
              > More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
              http://o.aolcdn com/cdn.webmail. aol.com/mailtour /aol/en-us/
              text.htm? ncid=aolcmp00050 000000003
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • Gerard (Gary) Carlson
              Bill: A few other questions: 0)?? Any idea about what caused the controller to fail? 1)? Does anyone have a schematic of the AMC 325? 2)? Are the MOSFETs the
              Message 6 of 19 , Jan 6, 2008
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                Bill:



                A few other questions:


                0)?? Any idea about what caused the controller to fail?

                1)? Does anyone have a schematic of the AMC 325?

                2)? Are the MOSFETs the only thing that are fried?

                3)? Is the PC board intact or damaged?



                My thinking is that it would be good to have an idea why the controller failed.? This could direct you to also test the motor to see if it has a shorted phase.? (Any decent motor shop should be able to test it for you).

                If Krispan is really expensive or takes to long to fix it you could always try to repair the controller yourself (or via a skilled electronics technician).

                Without a schematic, you need to become somewhat of a electronics detective.? For example, the controller MOSFETs are arranged in a three phase "H" bridge.? It consists of three branches tied to +V and three branches tied to -V.? Are the fried MOSFETs on the same phase of the motor??

                Do the fried MOSFETs share a common driver chip?? (if so replace the driver also).

                Depending upon Krispan's fees, you might risk replacing the MOSFETs / driver chip alone and see what happens.? (Get the motor checked out also).

                By the way, most motor shops at least know of industrial techs who work on AC variable frequency drives (which is what our controllers are)? If you shop around, you might find a brave soul who is willing to give it a try.

                Another thought is to find an under-employed tech who is willing to reverse engineer the controller and make a schematic for you.? You might get a few folks to share the expense if there is not a controller schematic available.

                Good luck, and let us know what you find.

                Gary?Carlson
                gjc0@...
                1992 Solectria Force


                -----Original Message-----
                From: Bill Swann <dbswann4@...>
                To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 2:01 pm
                Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: Motor Connector Polarity






                I opened up the controller (AMC-325) to discover some fried MOSFETs.
                Has anyone been confronted with this, and what to do? Is the only
                repair facility www.Krispan.de ?
                Bill S
                --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, Dorothy Swann <dbswann4@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > Thanks Gary. this is precisely the problem that I am addressing-"No
                response when I press the accelerator". I had hoped to isolate the
                problem to the controller or the car.
                > Bill S
                >
                >
                > ----- Original Message ----
                > From: Gerard (Gary) Carlson <gjc0@...>
                > To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 10:45:17 PM
                > Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Re: Motor Connector Polarity
                >
                > Greings:
                >
                > Three+ years ago I made a box that plugs into the DB-25 to imitate
                the FWD/REV, economy knob?and Throttle of the car.? I disconnected
                the drive belt from the motor and "drove" the car from the box.? I
                used it to isolate a problem to either the car or the controller.?
                The controller is a Brusa AMC320.
                >
                > Gary Carlson
                > gjc0@...
                >
                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: Bill Swann <dbswann4@yahoo. com>
                > To: solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com
                > Sent: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 1:30 pm
                > Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: Motor Connector Polarity
                >
                > Has anyone tested the DB-25 connector that goes into the controller?
                > What I mean is to insert a breakout male/female connector in the
                cable.
                > and test for voltages per the schematic shown in the file (in the
                file
                > section) called "E-10 Solectria Controllers AMCXXX.pdf"?
                > Thanks, Bill S
                >
                > --- In solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com, "Bill Swann" <dbswann4@ .>
                wrote:
                > >
                > > I was going to test a friend's controller because, in his car,
                there
                > > is no response when the accelerator is pressed. He also has a
                > marginal
                > > set of batteries. (156 volt full charge) Someone suggested
                putting a
                > > questionable controller in a car with a known good battery set-
                mine.
                > > So after I made all of the connections, I noticed that the color
                > coding
                > > on the main motor connector was reversed. That is, red-blue,white-
                > > white,blue-red, whereas my connector is red-red,blue- blue,white-
                > white.
                > > I know that for a 3 phase motor, 2 legs are reversed to reverse
                the
                > > motor rotation direction. I halted the test at that point. Does
                > anyone
                > > have any feedback/suggestion s?
                > >
                >
                > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
                > More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
                http://o.aolcdn com/cdn.webmail. aol.com/mailtour /aol/en-us/
                text.htm? ncid=aolcmp00050 000000003
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >





                ________________________________________________________________________
                More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Bill Swann
                Thanks Gary. The drive failed while driving with a 180 amp fuse failure. The pc board is intact and one or 2 MOSFETS on one bank of MOSFETS show thermal
                Message 7 of 19 , Jan 6, 2008
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                  Thanks Gary. The drive failed while driving with a 180 amp fuse
                  failure. The pc board is intact and one or 2 MOSFETS on one bank of
                  MOSFETS show thermal damage. I see the 3 phase H bridge, that is, I
                  see 6 banks of 8 MOSFETS. 3 of the 6 banks are visible for
                  inspection. There may be further damage. I will speak to a motor man
                  about testing the 3 phase motor. The failed MOSFETS are labeled as
                  IRFP 264. The specifications show they can carry 35 amps. With 8 in
                  parallel on each bank, I assume the the current capacity is 8 x 35 =
                  280 amps. But clearly, since the system is fused at 180 amp, they are
                  only running at 180/280 = 64%. (My logic may be flawed) I will keep
                  the group posted. I wonder if others have broken controllers on the
                  shelf. This is an opportunity to learn about VFD's, and I intend on
                  take advantage of it.
                  Bill S

                  --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "Gerard (Gary) Carlson "
                  <gjc0@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > Bill:
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > A few other questions:
                  >
                  >
                  > 0)?? Any idea about what caused the controller to fail?
                  >
                  > 1)? Does anyone have a schematic of the AMC 325?
                  >
                  > 2)? Are the MOSFETs the only thing that are fried?
                  >
                  > 3)? Is the PC board intact or damaged?
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > My thinking is that it would be good to have an idea why the
                  controller failed.? This could direct you to also test the motor to
                  see if it has a shorted phase.? (Any decent motor shop should be able
                  to test it for you).
                  >
                  > If Krispan is really expensive or takes to long to fix it you could
                  always try to repair the controller yourself (or via a skilled
                  electronics technician).
                  >
                  > Without a schematic, you need to become somewhat of a electronics
                  detective.? For example, the controller MOSFETs are arranged in a
                  three phase "H" bridge.? It consists of three branches tied to +V and
                  three branches tied to -V.? Are the fried MOSFETs on the same phase
                  of the motor??
                  >
                  > Do the fried MOSFETs share a common driver chip?? (if so replace
                  the driver also).
                  >
                  > Depending upon Krispan's fees, you might risk replacing the
                  MOSFETs / driver chip alone and see what happens.? (Get the motor
                  checked out also).
                  >
                  > By the way, most motor shops at least know of industrial techs who
                  work on AC variable frequency drives (which is what our controllers
                  are)? If you shop around, you might find a brave soul who is willing
                  to give it a try.
                  >
                  > Another thought is to find an under-employed tech who is willing to
                  reverse engineer the controller and make a schematic for you.? You
                  might get a few folks to share the expense if there is not a
                  controller schematic available.
                  >
                  > Good luck, and let us know what you find.
                  >
                  > Gary?Carlson
                  > gjc0@...
                  > 1992 Solectria Force
                  >
                  >
                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: Bill Swann <dbswann4@...>
                  > To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                  > Sent: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 2:01 pm
                  > Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: Motor Connector Polarity
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > I opened up the controller (AMC-325) to discover some fried
                  MOSFETs.
                  > Has anyone been confronted with this, and what to do? Is the only
                  > repair facility www.Krispan.de ?
                  > Bill S
                  > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, Dorothy Swann <dbswann4@>
                  > wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Thanks Gary. this is precisely the problem that I am addressing-
                  "No
                  > response when I press the accelerator". I had hoped to isolate the
                  > problem to the controller or the car.
                  > > Bill S
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > ----- Original Message ----
                  > > From: Gerard (Gary) Carlson <gjc0@>
                  > > To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                  > > Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 10:45:17 PM
                  > > Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Re: Motor Connector Polarity
                  > >
                  > > Greings:
                  > >
                  > > Three+ years ago I made a box that plugs into the DB-25 to
                  imitate
                  > the FWD/REV, economy knob?and Throttle of the car.? I disconnected
                  > the drive belt from the motor and "drove" the car from the box.? I
                  > used it to isolate a problem to either the car or the controller.?
                  > The controller is a Brusa AMC320.
                  > >
                  > > Gary Carlson
                  > > gjc0@
                  > >
                  > > -----Original Message-----
                  > > From: Bill Swann <dbswann4@yahoo. com>
                  > > To: solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com
                  > > Sent: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 1:30 pm
                  > > Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: Motor Connector Polarity
                  > >
                  > > Has anyone tested the DB-25 connector that goes into the
                  controller?
                  > > What I mean is to insert a breakout male/female connector in the
                  > cable.
                  > > and test for voltages per the schematic shown in the file (in the
                  > file
                  > > section) called "E-10 Solectria Controllers AMCXXX.pdf"?
                  > > Thanks, Bill S
                  > >
                  > > --- In solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com, "Bill Swann" <dbswann4@ .>
                  > wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > I was going to test a friend's controller because, in his car,
                  > there
                  > > > is no response when the accelerator is pressed. He also has a
                  > > marginal
                  > > > set of batteries. (156 volt full charge) Someone suggested
                  > putting a
                  > > > questionable controller in a car with a known good battery set-
                  > mine.
                  > > > So after I made all of the connections, I noticed that the
                  color
                  > > coding
                  > > > on the main motor connector was reversed. That is, red-
                  blue,white-
                  > > > white,blue-red, whereas my connector is red-red,blue-
                  blue,white-
                  > > white.
                  > > > I know that for a 3 phase motor, 2 legs are reversed to reverse
                  > the
                  > > > motor rotation direction. I halted the test at that point. Does
                  > > anyone
                  > > > have any feedback/suggestion s?
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
                  > > More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
                  > http://o.aolcdn com/cdn.webmail. aol.com/mailtour /aol/en-us/
                  > text.htm? ncid=aolcmp00050 000000003
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  ______________________________________________________________________
                  __
                  > More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
                  http://webmail.aol.com
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                • Gerard (Gary) Carlson
                  Bill: Some times when MOSFETs fail, they become a short.? A short across the power supply (150+ volts) will cause the 180 amp fuse to blow.? It may also have
                  Message 8 of 19 , Jan 6, 2008
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                    Bill:



                    Some times when MOSFETs fail, they become a short.? A short across the power supply (150+ volts) will cause the 180 amp fuse to blow.? It may also have put stress on the?complementary leg of the H-bridge.



                    My guess is that for some reason, some MOSFETs failed and took out other things (hopefully only the fuse) with it.



                    The circuit that controls the MOSFET gates is critical.? If it fails in any condition but absolutely OFF, things will fry.?? A failure that turns the MOSFETs on will cause the power rail short mentioned above.? A failure that results in a MOSFET being partially on (even for a small time) will cause death by rapid overheating.

                    If you are willing to tackle this job yourself, you could try removing any of the obviously failed MOSFETs and attempt to reconnect the controller to the batteries with maybe only a 20 amp fuse (to limit any further damage).? In place of the motor, a three phase bank of 130 volt light bulbs might be a good, lower current?test load.

                    This all depends on your spirit of adventure.? Are you the MIT physicist or am I confusing you with someone else?

                    Take lots of pictures and keep up posted.

                    Sincerely,

                    Gary Carlson
                    1992 Solectria Force
                    gjc0@...


                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Bill Swann <dbswann4@...>
                    To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 4:57 pm
                    Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: Motor Connector Polarity






                    Thanks Gary. The drive failed while driving with a 180 amp fuse
                    failure. The pc board is intact and one or 2 MOSFETS on one bank of
                    MOSFETS show thermal damage. I see the 3 phase H bridge, that is, I
                    see 6 banks of 8 MOSFETS. 3 of the 6 banks are visible for
                    inspection. There may be further damage. I will speak to a motor man
                    about testing the 3 phase motor. The failed MOSFETS are labeled as
                    IRFP 264. The specifications show they can carry 35 amps. With 8 in
                    parallel on each bank, I assume the the current capacity is 8 x 35 =
                    280 amps. But clearly, since the system is fused at 180 amp, they are
                    only running at 180/280 = 64%. (My logic may be flawed) I will keep
                    the group posted. I wonder if others have broken controllers on the
                    shelf. This is an opportunity to learn about VFD's, and I intend on
                    take advantage of it.
                    Bill S

                    --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "Gerard (Gary) Carlson "
                    <gjc0@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > Bill:
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > A few other questions:
                    >
                    >
                    > 0)?? Any idea about what caused the controller to fail?
                    >
                    > 1)? Does anyone have a schematic of the AMC 325?
                    >
                    > 2)? Are the MOSFETs the only thing that are fried?
                    >
                    > 3)? Is the PC board intact or damaged?
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > My thinking is that it would be good to have an idea why the
                    controller failed.? This could direct you to also test the motor to
                    see if it has a shorted phase.? (Any decent motor shop should be able
                    to test it for you).
                    >
                    > If Krispan is really expensive or takes to long to fix it you could
                    always try to repair the controller yourself (or via a skilled
                    electronics technician).
                    >
                    > Without a schematic, you need to become somewhat of a electronics
                    detective.? For example, the controller MOSFETs are arranged in a
                    three phase "H" bridge.? It consists of three branches tied to +V and
                    three branches tied to -V.? Are the fried MOSFETs on the same phase
                    of the motor??
                    >
                    > Do the fried MOSFETs share a common driver chip?? (if so replace
                    the driver also).
                    >
                    > Depending upon Krispan's fees, you might risk replacing the
                    MOSFETs / driver chip alone and see what happens.? (Get the motor
                    checked out also).
                    >
                    > By the way, most motor shops at least know of industrial techs who
                    work on AC variable frequency drives (which is what our controllers
                    are)? If you shop around, you might find a brave soul who is willing
                    to give it a try.
                    >
                    > Another thought is to find an under-employed tech who is willing to
                    reverse engineer the controller and make a schematic for you.? You
                    might get a few folks to share the expense if there is not a
                    controller schematic available.
                    >
                    > Good luck, and let us know what you find.
                    >
                    > Gary?Carlson
                    > gjc0@...
                    > 1992 Solectria Force
                    >
                    >
                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: Bill Swann <dbswann4@...>
                    > To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                    > Sent: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 2:01 pm
                    > Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: Motor Connector Polarity
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > I opened up the controller (AMC-325) to discover some fried
                    MOSFETs.
                    > Has anyone been confronted with this, and what to do? Is the only
                    > repair facility www.Krispan.de ?
                    > Bill S
                    > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, Dorothy Swann <dbswann4@>
                    > wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Thanks Gary. this is precisely the problem that I am addressing-
                    "No
                    > response when I press the accelerator". I had hoped to isolate the
                    > problem to the controller or the car.
                    > > Bill S
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > ----- Original Message ----
                    > > From: Gerard (Gary) Carlson <gjc0@>
                    > > To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                    > > Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 10:45:17 PM
                    > > Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Re: Motor Connector Polarity
                    > >
                    > > Greings:
                    > >
                    > > Three+ years ago I made a box that plugs into the DB-25 to
                    imitate
                    > the FWD/REV, economy knob?and Throttle of the car.? I disconnected
                    > the drive belt from the motor and "drove" the car from the box.? I
                    > used it to isolate a problem to either the car or the controller.?
                    > The controller is a Brusa AMC320.
                    > >
                    > > Gary Carlson
                    > > gjc0@
                    > >
                    > > -----Original Message-----
                    > > From: Bill Swann <dbswann4@yahoo. com>
                    > > To: solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com
                    > > Sent: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 1:30 pm
                    > > Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: Motor Connector Polarity
                    > >
                    > > Has anyone tested the DB-25 connector that goes into the
                    controller?
                    > > What I mean is to insert a breakout male/female connector in the
                    > cable.
                    > > and test for voltages per the schematic shown in the file (in the
                    > file
                    > > section) called "E-10 Solectria Controllers AMCXXX.pdf"?
                    > > Thanks, Bill S
                    > >
                    > > --- In solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com, "Bill Swann" <dbswann4@ .>
                    > wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > I was going to test a friend's controller because, in his car,
                    > there
                    > > > is no response when the accelerator is pressed. He also has a
                    > > marginal
                    > > > set of batteries. (156 volt full charge) Someone suggested
                    > putting a
                    > > > questionable controller in a car with a known good battery set-
                    > mine.
                    > > > So after I made all of the connections, I noticed that the
                    color
                    > > coding
                    > > > on the main motor connector was reversed. That is, red-
                    blue,white-
                    > > > white,blue-red, whereas my connector is red-red,blue-
                    blue,white-
                    > > white.
                    > > > I know that for a 3 phase motor, 2 legs are reversed to reverse
                    > the
                    > > > motor rotation direction. I halted the test at that point. Does
                    > > anyone
                    > > > have any feedback/suggestion s?
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
                    > > More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
                    > http://o.aolcdn com/cdn.webmail. aol.com/mailtour /aol/en-us/
                    > text.htm? ncid=aolcmp00050 000000003
                    > >
                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    __________________________________________________________
                    __
                    > More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
                    http://webmail.aol.com
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >





                    ________________________________________________________________________
                    More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Mike Phillips
                    Hi Bill, 98% of the time fets fail shorted. What can blow the fuse is that the upper and lower fets for one of the phases either gets stuck on due to being
                    Message 9 of 19 , Jan 9, 2008
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                    • 0 Attachment
                      Hi Bill,

                      98% of the time fets fail shorted. What can blow the fuse is that the
                      upper and lower fets for one of the phases either gets stuck on due to
                      being shorted, or something in the logic that drives the fets died
                      before they did and held the upper an lower fets on at the same time.

                      I can almost guarantee that the fets took out the fet driver circuitry
                      as well. When the fets short, it connects the battery pack voltage to
                      the gate pin which usually has only 10-20v on it.

                      It's possible in severe cases that the damage went from the fets to
                      the drivers to even the microprocessor. Look for distortion on the top
                      of the processor and see if it's normally finely textured surface is
                      flawed at all.

                      Look for a chip that is connected to each of the 6 fet drives and see
                      if they are obviously damaged. Post a part number if you can read one.

                      Are any of the components surface mount?

                      Is there any evidence that a cable shorted to ground and caused all of
                      this?

                      Mike



                      --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Swann" <dbswann4@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Thanks Gary. The drive failed while driving with a 180 amp fuse
                      > failure. The pc board is intact and one or 2 MOSFETS on one bank of
                      > MOSFETS show thermal damage. I see the 3 phase H bridge, that is, I
                      > see 6 banks of 8 MOSFETS. 3 of the 6 banks are visible for
                      > inspection. There may be further damage. I will speak to a motor man
                      > about testing the 3 phase motor. The failed MOSFETS are labeled as
                      > IRFP 264. The specifications show they can carry 35 amps. With 8 in
                      > parallel on each bank, I assume the the current capacity is 8 x 35 =
                      > 280 amps. But clearly, since the system is fused at 180 amp, they are
                      > only running at 180/280 = 64%. (My logic may be flawed) I will keep
                      > the group posted. I wonder if others have broken controllers on the
                      > shelf. This is an opportunity to learn about VFD's, and I intend on
                      > take advantage of it.
                      > Bill S
                      >
                      > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "Gerard (Gary) Carlson "
                      > <gjc0@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Bill:
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > A few other questions:
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > 0)?? Any idea about what caused the controller to fail?
                      > >
                      > > 1)? Does anyone have a schematic of the AMC 325?
                      > >
                      > > 2)? Are the MOSFETs the only thing that are fried?
                      > >
                      > > 3)? Is the PC board intact or damaged?
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > My thinking is that it would be good to have an idea why the
                      > controller failed.? This could direct you to also test the motor to
                      > see if it has a shorted phase.? (Any decent motor shop should be able
                      > to test it for you).
                      > >
                      > > If Krispan is really expensive or takes to long to fix it you could
                      > always try to repair the controller yourself (or via a skilled
                      > electronics technician).
                      > >
                      > > Without a schematic, you need to become somewhat of a electronics
                      > detective.? For example, the controller MOSFETs are arranged in a
                      > three phase "H" bridge.? It consists of three branches tied to +V and
                      > three branches tied to -V.? Are the fried MOSFETs on the same phase
                      > of the motor??
                      > >
                      > > Do the fried MOSFETs share a common driver chip?? (if so replace
                      > the driver also).
                      > >
                      > > Depending upon Krispan's fees, you might risk replacing the
                      > MOSFETs / driver chip alone and see what happens.? (Get the motor
                      > checked out also).
                      > >
                      > > By the way, most motor shops at least know of industrial techs who
                      > work on AC variable frequency drives (which is what our controllers
                      > are)? If you shop around, you might find a brave soul who is willing
                      > to give it a try.
                      > >
                      > > Another thought is to find an under-employed tech who is willing to
                      > reverse engineer the controller and make a schematic for you.? You
                      > might get a few folks to share the expense if there is not a
                      > controller schematic available.
                      > >
                      > > Good luck, and let us know what you find.
                      > >
                      > > Gary?Carlson
                      > > gjc0@
                      > > 1992 Solectria Force
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > -----Original Message-----
                      > > From: Bill Swann <dbswann4@>
                      > > To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                      > > Sent: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 2:01 pm
                      > > Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: Motor Connector Polarity
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > I opened up the controller (AMC-325) to discover some fried
                      > MOSFETs.
                      > > Has anyone been confronted with this, and what to do? Is the only
                      > > repair facility www.Krispan.de ?
                      > > Bill S
                      > > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, Dorothy Swann <dbswann4@>
                      > > wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > Thanks Gary. this is precisely the problem that I am addressing-
                      > "No
                      > > response when I press the accelerator". I had hoped to isolate the
                      > > problem to the controller or the car.
                      > > > Bill S
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > ----- Original Message ----
                      > > > From: Gerard (Gary) Carlson <gjc0@>
                      > > > To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                      > > > Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 10:45:17 PM
                      > > > Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Re: Motor Connector Polarity
                      > > >
                      > > > Greings:
                      > > >
                      > > > Three+ years ago I made a box that plugs into the DB-25 to
                      > imitate
                      > > the FWD/REV, economy knob?and Throttle of the car.? I disconnected
                      > > the drive belt from the motor and "drove" the car from the box.? I
                      > > used it to isolate a problem to either the car or the controller.?
                      > > The controller is a Brusa AMC320.
                      > > >
                      > > > Gary Carlson
                      > > > gjc0@
                      > > >
                      > > > -----Original Message-----
                      > > > From: Bill Swann <dbswann4@yahoo. com>
                      > > > To: solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com
                      > > > Sent: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 1:30 pm
                      > > > Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: Motor Connector Polarity
                      > > >
                      > > > Has anyone tested the DB-25 connector that goes into the
                      > controller?
                      > > > What I mean is to insert a breakout male/female connector in the
                      > > cable.
                      > > > and test for voltages per the schematic shown in the file (in the
                      > > file
                      > > > section) called "E-10 Solectria Controllers AMCXXX.pdf"?
                      > > > Thanks, Bill S
                      > > >
                      > > > --- In solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com, "Bill Swann" <dbswann4@ .>
                      > > wrote:
                      > > > >
                      > > > > I was going to test a friend's controller because, in his car,
                      > > there
                      > > > > is no response when the accelerator is pressed. He also has a
                      > > > marginal
                      > > > > set of batteries. (156 volt full charge) Someone suggested
                      > > putting a
                      > > > > questionable controller in a car with a known good battery set-
                      > > mine.
                      > > > > So after I made all of the connections, I noticed that the
                      > color
                      > > > coding
                      > > > > on the main motor connector was reversed. That is, red-
                      > blue,white-
                      > > > > white,blue-red, whereas my connector is red-red,blue-
                      > blue,white-
                      > > > white.
                      > > > > I know that for a 3 phase motor, 2 legs are reversed to reverse
                      > > the
                      > > > > motor rotation direction. I halted the test at that point. Does
                      > > > anyone
                      > > > > have any feedback/suggestion s?
                      > > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
                      > > > More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
                      > > http://o.aolcdn com/cdn.webmail. aol.com/mailtour /aol/en-us/
                      > > text.htm? ncid=aolcmp00050 000000003
                      > > >
                      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > ______________________________________________________________________
                      > __
                      > > More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
                      > http://webmail.aol.com
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > >
                      >
                    • Bill or Dorothy Swann
                      I removed the heat sink amd discovered 1 of 3 pc boards that shorted to a bolt head. Clearly a defect. These boards communicate thru a flat cable to the mP.
                      Message 10 of 19 , Jan 9, 2008
                      View Source
                      • 0 Attachment
                        I removed the heat sink amd discovered 1 of 3 pc boards that shorted to a bolt head. Clearly a defect. These boards communicate thru a flat cable to the mP.
                        Also, a blown 180 amp fuse within the unit. I will investigate this weekend.
                        I also ordered a book "Electrician's Technical Reference: Variable Frequency Drives " to understand more about VFDs. One thing I do not understand is the motors and how they become a generartors. And what makes the watt meter turn backwards? I wish someone sold a VFD in kit form like the old Heathkit.
                        Bill S
                        PS there is no visible damage to the mP, and very few surface mounted components.

                        ----- Original Message ----
                        From: Mike Phillips <mikep_95133@...>
                        To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Wednesday, January 9, 2008 12:59:17 PM
                        Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: Motor Connector Polarity

                        Hi Bill,

                        98% of the time fets fail shorted. What can blow the fuse is that the
                        upper and lower fets for one of the phases either gets stuck on due to
                        being shorted, or something in the logic that drives the fets died
                        before they did and held the upper an lower fets on at the same time.

                        I can almost guarantee that the fets took out the fet driver circuitry
                        as well. When the fets short, it connects the battery pack voltage to
                        the gate pin which usually has only 10-20v on it.

                        It's possible in severe cases that the damage went from the fets to
                        the drivers to even the microprocessor. Look for distortion on the top
                        of the processor and see if it's normally finely textured surface is
                        flawed at all.

                        Look for a chip that is connected to each of the 6 fet drives and see
                        if they are obviously damaged. Post a part number if you can read one.

                        Are any of the components surface mount?

                        Is there any evidence that a cable shorted to ground and caused all of
                        this?

                        Mike

                        --- In solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com, "Bill Swann" <dbswann4@.. .> wrote:
                        >
                        > Thanks Gary. The drive failed while driving with a 180 amp fuse
                        > failure. The pc board is intact and one or 2 MOSFETS on one bank of
                        > MOSFETS show thermal damage. I see the 3 phase H bridge, that is, I
                        > see 6 banks of 8 MOSFETS. 3 of the 6 banks are visible for
                        > inspection. There may be further damage. I will speak to a motor man
                        > about testing the 3 phase motor. The failed MOSFETS are labeled as
                        > IRFP 264. The specifications show they can carry 35 amps. With 8 in
                        > parallel on each bank, I assume the the current capacity is 8 x 35 =
                        > 280 amps. But clearly, since the system is fused at 180 amp, they are
                        > only running at 180/280 = 64%. (My logic may be flawed) I will keep
                        > the group posted. I wonder if others have broken controllers on the
                        > shelf. This is an opportunity to learn about VFD's, and I intend on
                        > take advantage of it.
                        > Bill S
                        >
                        > --- In solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com, "Gerard (Gary) Carlson "
                        > <gjc0@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Bill:
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > A few other questions:
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > 0)?? Any idea about what caused the controller to fail?
                        > >
                        > > 1)? Does anyone have a schematic of the AMC 325?
                        > >
                        > > 2)? Are the MOSFETs the only thing that are fried?
                        > >
                        > > 3)? Is the PC board intact or damaged?
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > My thinking is that it would be good to have an idea why the
                        > controller failed.? This could direct you to also test the motor to
                        > see if it has a shorted phase.? (Any decent motor shop should be able
                        > to test it for you).
                        > >
                        > > If Krispan is really expensive or takes to long to fix it you could
                        > always try to repair the controller yourself (or via a skilled
                        > electronics technician).
                        > >
                        > > Without a schematic, you need to become somewhat of a electronics
                        > detective.? For example, the controller MOSFETs are arranged in a
                        > three phase "H" bridge.? It consists of three branches tied to +V and
                        > three branches tied to -V.? Are the fried MOSFETs on the same phase
                        > of the motor??
                        > >
                        > > Do the fried MOSFETs share a common driver chip?? (if so replace
                        > the driver also).
                        > >
                        > > Depending upon Krispan's fees, you might risk replacing the
                        > MOSFETs / driver chip alone and see what happens.? (Get the motor
                        > checked out also).
                        > >
                        > > By the way, most motor shops at least know of industrial techs who
                        > work on AC variable frequency drives (which is what our controllers
                        > are)? If you shop around, you might find a brave soul who is willing
                        > to give it a try.
                        > >
                        > > Another thought is to find an under-employed tech who is willing to
                        > reverse engineer the controller and make a schematic for you.? You
                        > might get a few folks to share the expense if there is not a
                        > controller schematic available.
                        > >
                        > > Good luck, and let us know what you find.
                        > >
                        > > Gary?Carlson
                        > > gjc0@
                        > > 1992 Solectria Force
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > -----Original Message-----
                        > > From: Bill Swann <dbswann4@>
                        > > To: solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com
                        > > Sent: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 2:01 pm
                        > > Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: Motor Connector Polarity
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > I opened up the controller (AMC-325) to discover some fried
                        > MOSFETs.
                        > > Has anyone been confronted with this, and what to do? Is the only
                        > > repair facility www.Krispan. de ?
                        > > Bill S
                        > > --- In solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com, Dorothy Swann <dbswann4@>
                        > > wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > Thanks Gary. this is precisely the problem that I am addressing-
                        > "No
                        > > response when I press the accelerator" . I had hoped to isolate the
                        > > problem to the controller or the car.
                        > > > Bill S
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > ----- Original Message ----
                        > > > From: Gerard (Gary) Carlson <gjc0@>
                        > > > To: solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com
                        > > > Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 10:45:17 PM
                        > > > Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Re: Motor Connector Polarity
                        > > >
                        > > > Greings:
                        > > >
                        > > > Three+ years ago I made a box that plugs into the DB-25 to
                        > imitate
                        > > the FWD/REV, economy knob?and Throttle of the car.? I disconnected
                        > > the drive belt from the motor and "drove" the car from the box.? I
                        > > used it to isolate a problem to either the car or the controller.?
                        > > The controller is a Brusa AMC320.
                        > > >
                        > > > Gary Carlson
                        > > > gjc0@
                        > > >
                        > > > -----Original Message-----
                        > > > From: Bill Swann <dbswann4@yahoo. com>
                        > > > To: solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com
                        > > > Sent: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 1:30 pm
                        > > > Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: Motor Connector Polarity
                        > > >
                        > > > Has anyone tested the DB-25 connector that goes into the
                        > controller?
                        > > > What I mean is to insert a breakout male/female connector in the
                        > > cable.
                        > > > and test for voltages per the schematic shown in the file (in the
                        > > file
                        > > > section) called "E-10 Solectria Controllers AMCXXX.pdf"?
                        > > > Thanks, Bill S
                        > > >
                        > > > --- In solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com, "Bill Swann" <dbswann4@ .>
                        > > wrote:
                        > > > >
                        > > > > I was going to test a friend's controller because, in his car,
                        > > there
                        > > > > is no response when the accelerator is pressed. He also has a
                        > > > marginal
                        > > > > set of batteries. (156 volt full charge) Someone suggested
                        > > putting a
                        > > > > questionable controller in a car with a known good battery set-
                        > > mine.
                        > > > > So after I made all of the connections, I noticed that the
                        > color
                        > > > coding
                        > > > > on the main motor connector was reversed. That is, red-
                        > blue,white-
                        > > > > white,blue-red, whereas my connector is red-red,blue-
                        > blue,white-
                        > > > white.
                        > > > > I know that for a 3 phase motor, 2 legs are reversed to reverse
                        > > the
                        > > > > motor rotation direction. I halted the test at that point. Does
                        > > > anyone
                        > > > > have any feedback/suggestion s?
                        > > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
                        > > > More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
                        > > http://o.aolcdn. com/cdn.webmail. aol.com/mailtour /aol/en-us/
                        > > text.htm? ncid=aolcmp00050 000000003
                        > > >
                        > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
                        > __
                        > > More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
                        > http://webmail. aol.com
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > >
                        >




                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Mike Phillips
                        Are there any arcing marks on the bolt head or the heat sink? Mike PS microprocessor is abbreviated uP :) ... to a bolt head. Clearly a defect. These boards
                        Message 11 of 19 , Jan 9, 2008
                        View Source
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Are there any arcing marks on the bolt head or the heat sink?

                          Mike

                          PS microprocessor is abbreviated uP :)

                          --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, Bill or Dorothy Swann
                          <dbswann4@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > I removed the heat sink amd discovered 1 of 3 pc boards that shorted
                          to a bolt head. Clearly a defect. These boards communicate thru a flat
                          cable to the mP.
                          > Also, a blown 180 amp fuse within the unit. I will investigate
                          this weekend.
                          > I also ordered a book "Electrician's Technical Reference:
                          Variable Frequency Drives " to understand more about VFDs. One thing I
                          do not understand is the motors and how they become a generartors. And
                          what makes the watt meter turn backwards? I wish someone sold a VFD in
                          kit form like the old Heathkit.
                          > Bill S
                          > PS there is no visible damage to the mP, and very few surface
                          mounted components.
                          >
                          > ----- Original Message ----
                          > From: Mike Phillips <mikep_95133@...>
                          > To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                          > Sent: Wednesday, January 9, 2008 12:59:17 PM
                          > Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: Motor Connector Polarity
                          >
                          > Hi Bill,
                          >
                          > 98% of the time fets fail shorted. What can blow the fuse is that the
                          > upper and lower fets for one of the phases either gets stuck on due to
                          > being shorted, or something in the logic that drives the fets died
                          > before they did and held the upper an lower fets on at the same time.
                          >
                          > I can almost guarantee that the fets took out the fet driver circuitry
                          > as well. When the fets short, it connects the battery pack voltage to
                          > the gate pin which usually has only 10-20v on it.
                          >
                          > It's possible in severe cases that the damage went from the fets to
                          > the drivers to even the microprocessor. Look for distortion on the top
                          > of the processor and see if it's normally finely textured surface is
                          > flawed at all.
                          >
                          > Look for a chip that is connected to each of the 6 fet drives and see
                          > if they are obviously damaged. Post a part number if you can read one.
                          >
                          > Are any of the components surface mount?
                          >
                          > Is there any evidence that a cable shorted to ground and caused all of
                          > this?
                          >
                          > Mike
                          >
                          > --- In solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com, "Bill Swann" <dbswann4@ .> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Thanks Gary. The drive failed while driving with a 180 amp fuse
                          > > failure. The pc board is intact and one or 2 MOSFETS on one bank of
                          > > MOSFETS show thermal damage. I see the 3 phase H bridge, that is, I
                          > > see 6 banks of 8 MOSFETS. 3 of the 6 banks are visible for
                          > > inspection. There may be further damage. I will speak to a motor man
                          > > about testing the 3 phase motor. The failed MOSFETS are labeled as
                          > > IRFP 264. The specifications show they can carry 35 amps. With 8 in
                          > > parallel on each bank, I assume the the current capacity is 8 x 35 =
                          > > 280 amps. But clearly, since the system is fused at 180 amp, they are
                          > > only running at 180/280 = 64%. (My logic may be flawed) I will keep
                          > > the group posted. I wonder if others have broken controllers on the
                          > > shelf. This is an opportunity to learn about VFD's, and I intend on
                          > > take advantage of it.
                          > > Bill S
                          > >
                          > > --- In solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com, "Gerard (Gary) Carlson "
                          > > <gjc0@> wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > Bill:
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > A few other questions:
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > 0)?? Any idea about what caused the controller to fail?
                          > > >
                          > > > 1)? Does anyone have a schematic of the AMC 325?
                          > > >
                          > > > 2)? Are the MOSFETs the only thing that are fried?
                          > > >
                          > > > 3)? Is the PC board intact or damaged?
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > My thinking is that it would be good to have an idea why the
                          > > controller failed.? This could direct you to also test the motor to
                          > > see if it has a shorted phase.? (Any decent motor shop should be able
                          > > to test it for you).
                          > > >
                          > > > If Krispan is really expensive or takes to long to fix it you could
                          > > always try to repair the controller yourself (or via a skilled
                          > > electronics technician).
                          > > >
                          > > > Without a schematic, you need to become somewhat of a electronics
                          > > detective.? For example, the controller MOSFETs are arranged in a
                          > > three phase "H" bridge.? It consists of three branches tied to +V and
                          > > three branches tied to -V.? Are the fried MOSFETs on the same phase
                          > > of the motor??
                          > > >
                          > > > Do the fried MOSFETs share a common driver chip?? (if so replace
                          > > the driver also).
                          > > >
                          > > > Depending upon Krispan's fees, you might risk replacing the
                          > > MOSFETs / driver chip alone and see what happens.? (Get the motor
                          > > checked out also).
                          > > >
                          > > > By the way, most motor shops at least know of industrial techs who
                          > > work on AC variable frequency drives (which is what our controllers
                          > > are)? If you shop around, you might find a brave soul who is willing
                          > > to give it a try.
                          > > >
                          > > > Another thought is to find an under-employed tech who is willing to
                          > > reverse engineer the controller and make a schematic for you.? You
                          > > might get a few folks to share the expense if there is not a
                          > > controller schematic available.
                          > > >
                          > > > Good luck, and let us know what you find.
                          > > >
                          > > > Gary?Carlson
                          > > > gjc0@
                          > > > 1992 Solectria Force
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > -----Original Message-----
                          > > > From: Bill Swann <dbswann4@>
                          > > > To: solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com
                          > > > Sent: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 2:01 pm
                          > > > Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: Motor Connector Polarity
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > I opened up the controller (AMC-325) to discover some fried
                          > > MOSFETs.
                          > > > Has anyone been confronted with this, and what to do? Is the only
                          > > > repair facility www.Krispan. de ?
                          > > > Bill S
                          > > > --- In solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com, Dorothy Swann <dbswann4@>
                          > > > wrote:
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Thanks Gary. this is precisely the problem that I am addressing-
                          > > "No
                          > > > response when I press the accelerator" . I had hoped to isolate the
                          > > > problem to the controller or the car.
                          > > > > Bill S
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > > ----- Original Message ----
                          > > > > From: Gerard (Gary) Carlson <gjc0@>
                          > > > > To: solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com
                          > > > > Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 10:45:17 PM
                          > > > > Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Re: Motor Connector Polarity
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Greings:
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Three+ years ago I made a box that plugs into the DB-25 to
                          > > imitate
                          > > > the FWD/REV, economy knob?and Throttle of the car.? I disconnected
                          > > > the drive belt from the motor and "drove" the car from the box.? I
                          > > > used it to isolate a problem to either the car or the controller.?
                          > > > The controller is a Brusa AMC320.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Gary Carlson
                          > > > > gjc0@
                          > > > >
                          > > > > -----Original Message-----
                          > > > > From: Bill Swann <dbswann4@yahoo. com>
                          > > > > To: solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com
                          > > > > Sent: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 1:30 pm
                          > > > > Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: Motor Connector Polarity
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Has anyone tested the DB-25 connector that goes into the
                          > > controller?
                          > > > > What I mean is to insert a breakout male/female connector in the
                          > > > cable.
                          > > > > and test for voltages per the schematic shown in the file (in the
                          > > > file
                          > > > > section) called "E-10 Solectria Controllers AMCXXX.pdf"?
                          > > > > Thanks, Bill S
                          > > > >
                          > > > > --- In solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com, "Bill Swann" <dbswann4@ .>
                          > > > wrote:
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > I was going to test a friend's controller because, in his car,
                          > > > there
                          > > > > > is no response when the accelerator is pressed. He also has a
                          > > > > marginal
                          > > > > > set of batteries. (156 volt full charge) Someone suggested
                          > > > putting a
                          > > > > > questionable controller in a car with a known good battery set-
                          > > > mine.
                          > > > > > So after I made all of the connections, I noticed that the
                          > > color
                          > > > > coding
                          > > > > > on the main motor connector was reversed. That is, red-
                          > > blue,white-
                          > > > > > white,blue-red, whereas my connector is red-red,blue-
                          > > blue,white-
                          > > > > white.
                          > > > > > I know that for a 3 phase motor, 2 legs are reversed to reverse
                          > > > the
                          > > > > > motor rotation direction. I halted the test at that point. Does
                          > > > > anyone
                          > > > > > have any feedback/suggestion s?
                          > > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
                          > > > > More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
                          > > > http://o.aolcdn. com/cdn.webmail. aol.com/mailtour /aol/en-us/
                          > > > text.htm? ncid=aolcmp00050 000000003
                          > > > >
                          > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
                          > > __
                          > > > More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
                          > > http://webmail. aol.com
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > > >
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                        • Bill or Dorothy Swann
                          Thanks for the tip. The heat sink came off cleanly- no arcing here. I took another look burn marks on a circuit board. I was mistaken. The pcb is opposite some
                          Message 12 of 19 , Jan 9, 2008
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                          • 0 Attachment
                            Thanks for the tip.
                            The heat sink came off cleanly- no arcing here.
                            I took another look burn marks on a circuit board. I was mistaken. The pcb is opposite some large caps, and the arcing was between the leads of the caps. The pcb just had discoloration.
                            Bill S


                            ----- Original Message ----
                            From: Mike Phillips <mikep_95133@...>
                            To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Wednesday, January 9, 2008 8:04:33 PM
                            Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: Motor Connector Polarity


                            Are there any arcing marks on the bolt head or the heat sink?

                            Mike

                            PS microprocessor is abbreviated uP :)

                            --- In solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com, Bill or Dorothy Swann
                            <dbswann4@.. .> wrote:
                            >
                            > I removed the heat sink amd discovered 1 of 3 pc boards that shorted
                            to a bolt head. Clearly a defect. These boards communicate thru a flat
                            cable to the mP.
                            > Also, a blown 180 amp fuse within the unit. I will investigate
                            this weekend.
                            > I also ordered a book "Electrician' s Technical Reference:
                            Variable Frequency Drives " to understand more about VFDs. One thing I
                            do not understand is the motors and how they become a generartors. And
                            what makes the watt meter turn backwards? I wish someone sold a VFD in
                            kit form like the old Heathkit.
                            > Bill S
                            > PS there is no visible damage to the mP, and very few surface
                            mounted components.
                            >
                            > ----- Original Message ----
                            > From: Mike Phillips <mikep_95133@ ...>
                            > To: solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com
                            > Sent: Wednesday, January 9, 2008 12:59:17 PM
                            > Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: Motor Connector Polarity
                            >
                            > Hi Bill,
                            >
                            > 98% of the time fets fail shorted. What can blow the fuse is that the
                            > upper and lower fets for one of the phases either gets stuck on due to
                            > being shorted, or something in the logic that drives the fets died
                            > before they did and held the upper an lower fets on at the same time.
                            >
                            > I can almost guarantee that the fets took out the fet driver circuitry
                            > as well. When the fets short, it connects the battery pack voltage to
                            > the gate pin which usually has only 10-20v on it.
                            >
                            > It's possible in severe cases that the damage went from the fets to
                            > the drivers to even the microprocessor. Look for distortion on the top
                            > of the processor and see if it's normally finely textured surface is
                            > flawed at all.
                            >
                            > Look for a chip that is connected to each of the 6 fet drives and see
                            > if they are obviously damaged. Post a part number if you can read one.
                            >
                            > Are any of the components surface mount?
                            >
                            > Is there any evidence that a cable shorted to ground and caused all of
                            > this?
                            >
                            > Mike
                            >
                            > --- In solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com, "Bill Swann" <dbswann4@ .> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Thanks Gary. The drive failed while driving with a 180 amp fuse
                            > > failure. The pc board is intact and one or 2 MOSFETS on one bank of
                            > > MOSFETS show thermal damage. I see the 3 phase H bridge, that is, I
                            > > see 6 banks of 8 MOSFETS. 3 of the 6 banks are visible for
                            > > inspection. There may be further damage. I will speak to a motor man
                            > > about testing the 3 phase motor. The failed MOSFETS are labeled as
                            > > IRFP 264. The specifications show they can carry 35 amps. With 8 in
                            > > parallel on each bank, I assume the the current capacity is 8 x 35 =
                            > > 280 amps. But clearly, since the system is fused at 180 amp, they are
                            > > only running at 180/280 = 64%. (My logic may be flawed) I will keep
                            > > the group posted. I wonder if others have broken controllers on the
                            > > shelf. This is an opportunity to learn about VFD's, and I intend on
                            > > take advantage of it.
                            > > Bill S
                            > >
                            > > --- In solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com, "Gerard (Gary) Carlson "
                            > > <gjc0@> wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > Bill:
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > A few other questions:
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > 0)?? Any idea about what caused the controller to fail?
                            > > >
                            > > > 1)? Does anyone have a schematic of the AMC 325?
                            > > >
                            > > > 2)? Are the MOSFETs the only thing that are fried?
                            > > >
                            > > > 3)? Is the PC board intact or damaged?
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > My thinking is that it would be good to have an idea why the
                            > > controller failed.? This could direct you to also test the motor to
                            > > see if it has a shorted phase.? (Any decent motor shop should be able
                            > > to test it for you).
                            > > >
                            > > > If Krispan is really expensive or takes to long to fix it you could
                            > > always try to repair the controller yourself (or via a skilled
                            > > electronics technician).
                            > > >
                            > > > Without a schematic, you need to become somewhat of a electronics
                            > > detective.? For example, the controller MOSFETs are arranged in a
                            > > three phase "H" bridge.? It consists of three branches tied to +V and
                            > > three branches tied to -V.? Are the fried MOSFETs on the same phase
                            > > of the motor??
                            > > >
                            > > > Do the fried MOSFETs share a common driver chip?? (if so replace
                            > > the driver also).
                            > > >
                            > > > Depending upon Krispan's fees, you might risk replacing the
                            > > MOSFETs / driver chip alone and see what happens.? (Get the motor
                            > > checked out also).
                            > > >
                            > > > By the way, most motor shops at least know of industrial techs who
                            > > work on AC variable frequency drives (which is what our controllers
                            > > are)? If you shop around, you might find a brave soul who is willing
                            > > to give it a try.
                            > > >
                            > > > Another thought is to find an under-employed tech who is willing to
                            > > reverse engineer the controller and make a schematic for you.? You
                            > > might get a few folks to share the expense if there is not a
                            > > controller schematic available.
                            > > >
                            > > > Good luck, and let us know what you find.
                            > > >
                            > > > Gary?Carlson
                            > > > gjc0@
                            > > > 1992 Solectria Force
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > -----Original Message-----
                            > > > From: Bill Swann <dbswann4@>
                            > > > To: solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com
                            > > > Sent: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 2:01 pm
                            > > > Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: Motor Connector Polarity
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > I opened up the controller (AMC-325) to discover some fried
                            > > MOSFETs.
                            > > > Has anyone been confronted with this, and what to do? Is the only
                            > > > repair facility www.Krispan. de ?
                            > > > Bill S
                            > > > --- In solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com, Dorothy Swann <dbswann4@>
                            > > > wrote:
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Thanks Gary. this is precisely the problem that I am addressing-
                            > > "No
                            > > > response when I press the accelerator" . I had hoped to isolate the
                            > > > problem to the controller or the car.
                            > > > > Bill S
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > ----- Original Message ----
                            > > > > From: Gerard (Gary) Carlson <gjc0@>
                            > > > > To: solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com
                            > > > > Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 10:45:17 PM
                            > > > > Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Re: Motor Connector Polarity
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Greings:
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Three+ years ago I made a box that plugs into the DB-25 to
                            > > imitate
                            > > > the FWD/REV, economy knob?and Throttle of the car.? I disconnected
                            > > > the drive belt from the motor and "drove" the car from the box.? I
                            > > > used it to isolate a problem to either the car or the controller.?
                            > > > The controller is a Brusa AMC320.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Gary Carlson
                            > > > > gjc0@
                            > > > >
                            > > > > -----Original Message-----
                            > > > > From: Bill Swann <dbswann4@yahoo. com>
                            > > > > To: solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com
                            > > > > Sent: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 1:30 pm
                            > > > > Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: Motor Connector Polarity
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Has anyone tested the DB-25 connector that goes into the
                            > > controller?
                            > > > > What I mean is to insert a breakout male/female connector in the
                            > > > cable.
                            > > > > and test for voltages per the schematic shown in the file (in the
                            > > > file
                            > > > > section) called "E-10 Solectria Controllers AMCXXX.pdf"?
                            > > > > Thanks, Bill S
                            > > > >
                            > > > > --- In solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com, "Bill Swann" <dbswann4@ .>
                            > > > wrote:
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > I was going to test a friend's controller because, in his car,
                            > > > there
                            > > > > > is no response when the accelerator is pressed. He also has a
                            > > > > marginal
                            > > > > > set of batteries. (156 volt full charge) Someone suggested
                            > > > putting a
                            > > > > > questionable controller in a car with a known good battery set-
                            > > > mine.
                            > > > > > So after I made all of the connections, I noticed that the
                            > > color
                            > > > > coding
                            > > > > > on the main motor connector was reversed. That is, red-
                            > > blue,white-
                            > > > > > white,blue-red, whereas my connector is red-red,blue-
                            > > blue,white-
                            > > > > white.
                            > > > > > I know that for a 3 phase motor, 2 legs are reversed to reverse
                            > > > the
                            > > > > > motor rotation direction. I halted the test at that point. Does
                            > > > > anyone
                            > > > > > have any feedback/suggestion s?
                            > > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
                            > > > > More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
                            > > > http://o.aolcdn. com/cdn.webmail. aol.com/mailtour /aol/en-us/
                            > > > text.htm? ncid=aolcmp00050 000000003
                            > > > >
                            > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
                            > > __
                            > > > More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
                            > > http://webmail. aol.com
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > > >
                            > >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >




                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • ldr214
                            Bill could you clarify the info on shorting to a bolt head. I wasn t sure if you retracted that in your last post. Do you think the bolt caused the problem or
                            Message 13 of 19 , Jan 10, 2008
                            View Source
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Bill could you clarify the info on shorting to a bolt head. I wasn't
                              sure if you retracted that in your last post.

                              Do you think the bolt caused the problem or it was just a recipient of
                              damage as a result of another internal failure.

                              Thanks,
                              Mike Rydjord

                              --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, Bill or Dorothy Swann
                              <dbswann4@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > I removed the heat sink amd discovered 1 of 3 pc boards that shorted
                              to a bolt head. Clearly a defect. These boards communicate thru a flat
                              cable to the mP.
                              > Also, a blown 180 amp fuse within the unit. I will investigate
                              this weekend.
                              > I also ordered a book "Electrician's Technical Reference:
                              Variable Frequency Drives " to understand more about VFDs. One thing I
                              do not understand is the motors and how they become a generartors. And
                              what makes the watt meter turn backwards? I wish someone sold a VFD in
                              kit form like the old Heathkit.
                              > Bill S
                              > PS there is no visible damage to the mP, and very few surface
                              mounted components.
                              >
                              > ----- Original Message ----
                              > From: Mike Phillips <mikep_95133@...>
                              > To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                              > Sent: Wednesday, January 9, 2008 12:59:17 PM
                              > Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: Motor Connector Polarity
                              >
                              > Hi Bill,
                              >
                              > 98% of the time fets fail shorted. What can blow the fuse is that the
                              > upper and lower fets for one of the phases either gets stuck on due to
                              > being shorted, or something in the logic that drives the fets died
                              > before they did and held the upper an lower fets on at the same time.
                              >
                              > I can almost guarantee that the fets took out the fet driver circuitry
                              > as well. When the fets short, it connects the battery pack voltage to
                              > the gate pin which usually has only 10-20v on it.
                              >
                              > It's possible in severe cases that the damage went from the fets to
                              > the drivers to even the microprocessor. Look for distortion on the top
                              > of the processor and see if it's normally finely textured surface is
                              > flawed at all.
                              >
                              > Look for a chip that is connected to each of the 6 fet drives and see
                              > if they are obviously damaged. Post a part number if you can read one.
                              >
                              > Are any of the components surface mount?
                              >
                              > Is there any evidence that a cable shorted to ground and caused all of
                              > this?
                              >
                              > Mike
                              >
                              > --- In solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com, "Bill Swann" <dbswann4@ .> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > Thanks Gary. The drive failed while driving with a 180 amp fuse
                              > > failure. The pc board is intact and one or 2 MOSFETS on one bank of
                              > > MOSFETS show thermal damage. I see the 3 phase H bridge, that is, I
                              > > see 6 banks of 8 MOSFETS. 3 of the 6 banks are visible for
                              > > inspection. There may be further damage. I will speak to a motor man
                              > > about testing the 3 phase motor. The failed MOSFETS are labeled as
                              > > IRFP 264. The specifications show they can carry 35 amps. With 8 in
                              > > parallel on each bank, I assume the the current capacity is 8 x 35 =
                              > > 280 amps. But clearly, since the system is fused at 180 amp, they are
                              > > only running at 180/280 = 64%. (My logic may be flawed) I will keep
                              > > the group posted. I wonder if others have broken controllers on the
                              > > shelf. This is an opportunity to learn about VFD's, and I intend on
                              > > take advantage of it.
                              > > Bill S
                              > >
                              > > --- In solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com, "Gerard (Gary) Carlson "
                              > > <gjc0@> wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > Bill:
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > A few other questions:
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > 0)?? Any idea about what caused the controller to fail?
                              > > >
                              > > > 1)? Does anyone have a schematic of the AMC 325?
                              > > >
                              > > > 2)? Are the MOSFETs the only thing that are fried?
                              > > >
                              > > > 3)? Is the PC board intact or damaged?
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > My thinking is that it would be good to have an idea why the
                              > > controller failed.? This could direct you to also test the motor to
                              > > see if it has a shorted phase.? (Any decent motor shop should be able
                              > > to test it for you).
                              > > >
                              > > > If Krispan is really expensive or takes to long to fix it you could
                              > > always try to repair the controller yourself (or via a skilled
                              > > electronics technician).
                              > > >
                              > > > Without a schematic, you need to become somewhat of a electronics
                              > > detective.? For example, the controller MOSFETs are arranged in a
                              > > three phase "H" bridge.? It consists of three branches tied to +V and
                              > > three branches tied to -V.? Are the fried MOSFETs on the same phase
                              > > of the motor??
                              > > >
                              > > > Do the fried MOSFETs share a common driver chip?? (if so replace
                              > > the driver also).
                              > > >
                              > > > Depending upon Krispan's fees, you might risk replacing the
                              > > MOSFETs / driver chip alone and see what happens.? (Get the motor
                              > > checked out also).
                              > > >
                              > > > By the way, most motor shops at least know of industrial techs who
                              > > work on AC variable frequency drives (which is what our controllers
                              > > are)? If you shop around, you might find a brave soul who is willing
                              > > to give it a try.
                              > > >
                              > > > Another thought is to find an under-employed tech who is willing to
                              > > reverse engineer the controller and make a schematic for you.? You
                              > > might get a few folks to share the expense if there is not a
                              > > controller schematic available.
                              > > >
                              > > > Good luck, and let us know what you find.
                              > > >
                              > > > Gary?Carlson
                              > > > gjc0@
                              > > > 1992 Solectria Force
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > -----Original Message-----
                              > > > From: Bill Swann <dbswann4@>
                              > > > To: solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com
                              > > > Sent: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 2:01 pm
                              > > > Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: Motor Connector Polarity
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > I opened up the controller (AMC-325) to discover some fried
                              > > MOSFETs.
                              > > > Has anyone been confronted with this, and what to do? Is the only
                              > > > repair facility www.Krispan. de ?
                              > > > Bill S
                              > > > --- In solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com, Dorothy Swann <dbswann4@>
                              > > > wrote:
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Thanks Gary. this is precisely the problem that I am addressing-
                              > > "No
                              > > > response when I press the accelerator" . I had hoped to isolate the
                              > > > problem to the controller or the car.
                              > > > > Bill S
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > > ----- Original Message ----
                              > > > > From: Gerard (Gary) Carlson <gjc0@>
                              > > > > To: solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com
                              > > > > Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 10:45:17 PM
                              > > > > Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Re: Motor Connector Polarity
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Greings:
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Three+ years ago I made a box that plugs into the DB-25 to
                              > > imitate
                              > > > the FWD/REV, economy knob?and Throttle of the car.? I disconnected
                              > > > the drive belt from the motor and "drove" the car from the box.? I
                              > > > used it to isolate a problem to either the car or the controller.?
                              > > > The controller is a Brusa AMC320.
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Gary Carlson
                              > > > > gjc0@
                              > > > >
                              > > > > -----Original Message-----
                              > > > > From: Bill Swann <dbswann4@yahoo. com>
                              > > > > To: solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com
                              > > > > Sent: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 1:30 pm
                              > > > > Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: Motor Connector Polarity
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Has anyone tested the DB-25 connector that goes into the
                              > > controller?
                              > > > > What I mean is to insert a breakout male/female connector in the
                              > > > cable.
                              > > > > and test for voltages per the schematic shown in the file (in the
                              > > > file
                              > > > > section) called "E-10 Solectria Controllers AMCXXX.pdf"?
                              > > > > Thanks, Bill S
                              > > > >
                              > > > > --- In solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com, "Bill Swann" <dbswann4@ .>
                              > > > wrote:
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > I was going to test a friend's controller because, in his car,
                              > > > there
                              > > > > > is no response when the accelerator is pressed. He also has a
                              > > > > marginal
                              > > > > > set of batteries. (156 volt full charge) Someone suggested
                              > > > putting a
                              > > > > > questionable controller in a car with a known good battery set-
                              > > > mine.
                              > > > > > So after I made all of the connections, I noticed that the
                              > > color
                              > > > > coding
                              > > > > > on the main motor connector was reversed. That is, red-
                              > > blue,white-
                              > > > > > white,blue-red, whereas my connector is red-red,blue-
                              > > blue,white-
                              > > > > white.
                              > > > > > I know that for a 3 phase motor, 2 legs are reversed to reverse
                              > > > the
                              > > > > > motor rotation direction. I halted the test at that point. Does
                              > > > > anyone
                              > > > > > have any feedback/suggestion s?
                              > > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
                              > > > > More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
                              > > > http://o.aolcdn. com/cdn.webmail. aol.com/mailtour /aol/en-us/
                              > > > text.htm? ncid=aolcmp00050 000000003
                              > > > >
                              > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              > > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
                              > > __
                              > > > More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
                              > > http://webmail. aol.com
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              > > >
                              > >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                            • Bill or Dorothy Swann
                              Hello Mike. No, I looked at the gap where an arc would have had to jump, and it was too far (1/4 ). So upon further examination, I noticed that the arc was
                              Message 14 of 19 , Jan 10, 2008
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                                Hello Mike. No, I looked at the gap where an arc would have had to jump, and it was too far (1/4"). So upon further examination, I noticed that the arc was between voltages on 1 of 6 capacitors. Actually, between one cap lead and a common buss bar. I will post some pictures this evening.
                                Kruspan Engineering has offered their services for repair, and so has www.bipom.com . The latter is local.

                                Bill S



                                ----- Original Message ----
                                From: ldr214 <replytome@...>
                                To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 11:17:46 AM
                                Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: Motor Connector Polarity

                                Bill could you clarify the info on shorting to a bolt head. I wasn't
                                sure if you retracted that in your last post.

                                Do you think the bolt caused the problem or it was just a recipient of
                                damage as a result of another internal failure.

                                Thanks,
                                Mike Rydjord

                                --- In solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com, Bill or Dorothy Swann
                                <dbswann4@.. .> wrote:
                                >
                                > I removed the heat sink amd discovered 1 of 3 pc boards that shorted
                                to a bolt head. Clearly a defect. These boards communicate thru a flat
                                cable to the mP.
                                > Also, a blown 180 amp fuse within the unit. I will investigate
                                this weekend.
                                > I also ordered a book "Electrician' s Technical Reference:
                                Variable Frequency Drives " to understand more about VFDs. One thing I
                                do not understand is the motors and how they become a generartors. And
                                what makes the watt meter turn backwards? I wish someone sold a VFD in
                                kit form like the old Heathkit.
                                > Bill S
                                > PS there is no visible damage to the mP, and very few surface
                                mounted components.
                                >
                                > ----- Original Message ----
                                > From: Mike Phillips <mikep_95133@ ...>
                                > To: solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com
                                > Sent: Wednesday, January 9, 2008 12:59:17 PM
                                > Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: Motor Connector Polarity
                                >
                                > Hi Bill,
                                >
                                > 98% of the time fets fail shorted. What can blow the fuse is that the
                                > upper and lower fets for one of the phases either gets stuck on due to
                                > being shorted, or something in the logic that drives the fets died
                                > before they did and held the upper an lower fets on at the same time.
                                >
                                > I can almost guarantee that the fets took out the fet driver circuitry
                                > as well. When the fets short, it connects the battery pack voltage to
                                > the gate pin which usually has only 10-20v on it.
                                >
                                > It's possible in severe cases that the damage went from the fets to
                                > the drivers to even the microprocessor. Look for distortion on the top
                                > of the processor and see if it's normally finely textured surface is
                                > flawed at all.
                                >
                                > Look for a chip that is connected to each of the 6 fet drives and see
                                > if they are obviously damaged. Post a part number if you can read one.
                                >
                                > Are any of the components surface mount?
                                >
                                > Is there any evidence that a cable shorted to ground and caused all of
                                > this?
                                >
                                > Mike
                                >
                                > --- In solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com, "Bill Swann" <dbswann4@ .> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > Thanks Gary. The drive failed while driving with a 180 amp fuse
                                > > failure. The pc board is intact and one or 2 MOSFETS on one bank of
                                > > MOSFETS show thermal damage. I see the 3 phase H bridge, that is, I
                                > > see 6 banks of 8 MOSFETS. 3 of the 6 banks are visible for
                                > > inspection. There may be further damage. I will speak to a motor man
                                > > about testing the 3 phase motor. The failed MOSFETS are labeled as
                                > > IRFP 264. The specifications show they can carry 35 amps. With 8 in
                                > > parallel on each bank, I assume the the current capacity is 8 x 35 =
                                > > 280 amps. But clearly, since the system is fused at 180 amp, they are
                                > > only running at 180/280 = 64%. (My logic may be flawed) I will keep
                                > > the group posted. I wonder if others have broken controllers on the
                                > > shelf. This is an opportunity to learn about VFD's, and I intend on
                                > > take advantage of it.
                                > > Bill S
                                > >
                                > > --- In solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com, "Gerard (Gary) Carlson "
                                > > <gjc0@> wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > Bill:
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > A few other questions:
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > 0)?? Any idea about what caused the controller to fail?
                                > > >
                                > > > 1)? Does anyone have a schematic of the AMC 325?
                                > > >
                                > > > 2)? Are the MOSFETs the only thing that are fried?
                                > > >
                                > > > 3)? Is the PC board intact or damaged?
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > My thinking is that it would be good to have an idea why the
                                > > controller failed.? This could direct you to also test the motor to
                                > > see if it has a shorted phase.? (Any decent motor shop should be able
                                > > to test it for you).
                                > > >
                                > > > If Krispan is really expensive or takes to long to fix it you could
                                > > always try to repair the controller yourself (or via a skilled
                                > > electronics technician).
                                > > >
                                > > > Without a schematic, you need to become somewhat of a electronics
                                > > detective.? For example, the controller MOSFETs are arranged in a
                                > > three phase "H" bridge.? It consists of three branches tied to +V and
                                > > three branches tied to -V.? Are the fried MOSFETs on the same phase
                                > > of the motor??
                                > > >
                                > > > Do the fried MOSFETs share a common driver chip?? (if so replace
                                > > the driver also).
                                > > >
                                > > > Depending upon Krispan's fees, you might risk replacing the
                                > > MOSFETs / driver chip alone and see what happens.? (Get the motor
                                > > checked out also).
                                > > >
                                > > > By the way, most motor shops at least know of industrial techs who
                                > > work on AC variable frequency drives (which is what our controllers
                                > > are)? If you shop around, you might find a brave soul who is willing
                                > > to give it a try.
                                > > >
                                > > > Another thought is to find an under-employed tech who is willing to
                                > > reverse engineer the controller and make a schematic for you.? You
                                > > might get a few folks to share the expense if there is not a
                                > > controller schematic available.
                                > > >
                                > > > Good luck, and let us know what you find.
                                > > >
                                > > > Gary?Carlson
                                > > > gjc0@
                                > > > 1992 Solectria Force
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > -----Original Message-----
                                > > > From: Bill Swann <dbswann4@>
                                > > > To: solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com
                                > > > Sent: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 2:01 pm
                                > > > Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: Motor Connector Polarity
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > I opened up the controller (AMC-325) to discover some fried
                                > > MOSFETs.
                                > > > Has anyone been confronted with this, and what to do? Is the only
                                > > > repair facility www.Krispan. de ?
                                > > > Bill S
                                > > > --- In solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com, Dorothy Swann <dbswann4@>
                                > > > wrote:
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Thanks Gary. this is precisely the problem that I am addressing-
                                > > "No
                                > > > response when I press the accelerator" . I had hoped to isolate the
                                > > > problem to the controller or the car.
                                > > > > Bill S
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > > ----- Original Message ----
                                > > > > From: Gerard (Gary) Carlson <gjc0@>
                                > > > > To: solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com
                                > > > > Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 10:45:17 PM
                                > > > > Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Re: Motor Connector Polarity
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Greings:
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Three+ years ago I made a box that plugs into the DB-25 to
                                > > imitate
                                > > > the FWD/REV, economy knob?and Throttle of the car.? I disconnected
                                > > > the drive belt from the motor and "drove" the car from the box.? I
                                > > > used it to isolate a problem to either the car or the controller.?
                                > > > The controller is a Brusa AMC320.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Gary Carlson
                                > > > > gjc0@
                                > > > >
                                > > > > -----Original Message-----
                                > > > > From: Bill Swann <dbswann4@yahoo. com>
                                > > > > To: solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com
                                > > > > Sent: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 1:30 pm
                                > > > > Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: Motor Connector Polarity
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Has anyone tested the DB-25 connector that goes into the
                                > > controller?
                                > > > > What I mean is to insert a breakout male/female connector in the
                                > > > cable.
                                > > > > and test for voltages per the schematic shown in the file (in the
                                > > > file
                                > > > > section) called "E-10 Solectria Controllers AMCXXX.pdf"?
                                > > > > Thanks, Bill S
                                > > > >
                                > > > > --- In solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com, "Bill Swann" <dbswann4@ .>
                                > > > wrote:
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > I was going to test a friend's controller because, in his car,
                                > > > there
                                > > > > > is no response when the accelerator is pressed. He also has a
                                > > > > marginal
                                > > > > > set of batteries. (156 volt full charge) Someone suggested
                                > > > putting a
                                > > > > > questionable controller in a car with a known good battery set-
                                > > > mine.
                                > > > > > So after I made all of the connections, I noticed that the
                                > > color
                                > > > > coding
                                > > > > > on the main motor connector was reversed. That is, red-
                                > > blue,white-
                                > > > > > white,blue-red, whereas my connector is red-red,blue-
                                > > blue,white-
                                > > > > white.
                                > > > > > I know that for a 3 phase motor, 2 legs are reversed to reverse
                                > > > the
                                > > > > > motor rotation direction. I halted the test at that point. Does
                                > > > > anyone
                                > > > > > have any feedback/suggestion s?
                                > > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
                                > > > > More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
                                > > > http://o.aolcdn. com/cdn.webmail. aol.com/mailtour /aol/en-us/
                                > > > text.htm? ncid=aolcmp00050 000000003
                                > > > >
                                > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                > > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
                                > > __
                                > > > More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
                                > > http://webmail. aol.com
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                > > >
                                > >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >




                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • ldr214
                                Thanks for clarifying that for me. I thought that was what you were saying but wanted to make sure. The Force drive motor- If you google induction motors you
                                Message 15 of 19 , Jan 10, 2008
                                View Source
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Thanks for clarifying that for me. I thought that was what you were
                                  saying but wanted to make sure.

                                  The Force drive motor-
                                  If you google "induction motors" you will find a wealth of information
                                  on the web that should explain things in both simple and rather in
                                  depth terminology with regards to to how they work. From my
                                  perspective it is still somewhat cosmic. Our industrial society uses a
                                  lot of them so it is nice to know info. there are simple single phase
                                  motors like a room fan and when you need serious power you go for a 3
                                  phase work horse.

                                  Thanks for the posts on the controller, rather interesting.

                                  Mike

                                  --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, Bill or Dorothy Swann
                                  <dbswann4@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Hello Mike. No, I looked at the gap where an arc would have had to
                                  jump, and it was too far (1/4"). So upon further examination, I
                                  noticed that the arc was between voltages on 1 of 6 capacitors.
                                  Actually, between one cap lead and a common buss bar. I will post some
                                  pictures this evening.
                                  > Kruspan Engineering has offered their services for repair, and so
                                  has www.bipom.com . The latter is local.
                                  >
                                  > Bill S
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > ----- Original Message ----
                                  > From: ldr214 <replytome@...>
                                  > To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 11:17:46 AM
                                  > Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: Motor Connector Polarity
                                  >
                                  > Bill could you clarify the info on shorting to a bolt head. I wasn't
                                  > sure if you retracted that in your last post.
                                  >
                                  > Do you think the bolt caused the problem or it was just a recipient of
                                  > damage as a result of another internal failure.
                                  >
                                  > Thanks,
                                  > Mike Rydjord
                                  >
                                  > --- In solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com, Bill or Dorothy Swann
                                  > <dbswann4@ .> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > I removed the heat sink amd discovered 1 of 3 pc boards that shorted
                                  > to a bolt head. Clearly a defect. These boards communicate thru a flat
                                  > cable to the mP.
                                  > > Also, a blown 180 amp fuse within the unit. I will investigate
                                  > this weekend.
                                  > > I also ordered a book "Electrician' s Technical Reference:
                                  > Variable Frequency Drives " to understand more about VFDs. One thing I
                                  > do not understand is the motors and how they become a generartors. And
                                  > what makes the watt meter turn backwards? I wish someone sold a VFD in
                                  > kit form like the old Heathkit.
                                  > > Bill S
                                  > > PS there is no visible damage to the mP, and very few surface
                                  > mounted components.
                                  > >
                                  > > ----- Original Message ----
                                  > > From: Mike Phillips <mikep_95133@ ...>
                                  > > To: solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com
                                  > > Sent: Wednesday, January 9, 2008 12:59:17 PM
                                  > > Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: Motor Connector Polarity
                                  > >
                                  > > Hi Bill,
                                  > >
                                  > > 98% of the time fets fail shorted. What can blow the fuse is that the
                                  > > upper and lower fets for one of the phases either gets stuck on due to
                                  > > being shorted, or something in the logic that drives the fets died
                                  > > before they did and held the upper an lower fets on at the same time.
                                  > >
                                  > > I can almost guarantee that the fets took out the fet driver circuitry
                                  > > as well. When the fets short, it connects the battery pack voltage to
                                  > > the gate pin which usually has only 10-20v on it.
                                  > >
                                  > > It's possible in severe cases that the damage went from the fets to
                                  > > the drivers to even the microprocessor. Look for distortion on the top
                                  > > of the processor and see if it's normally finely textured surface is
                                  > > flawed at all.
                                  > >
                                  > > Look for a chip that is connected to each of the 6 fet drives and see
                                  > > if they are obviously damaged. Post a part number if you can read one.
                                  > >
                                  > > Are any of the components surface mount?
                                  > >
                                  > > Is there any evidence that a cable shorted to ground and caused all of
                                  > > this?
                                  > >
                                  > > Mike
                                  > >
                                  > > --- In solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com, "Bill Swann" <dbswann4@ .>
                                  wrote:
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Thanks Gary. The drive failed while driving with a 180 amp fuse
                                  > > > failure. The pc board is intact and one or 2 MOSFETS on one bank of
                                  > > > MOSFETS show thermal damage. I see the 3 phase H bridge, that is, I
                                  > > > see 6 banks of 8 MOSFETS. 3 of the 6 banks are visible for
                                  > > > inspection. There may be further damage. I will speak to a motor
                                  man
                                  > > > about testing the 3 phase motor. The failed MOSFETS are labeled as
                                  > > > IRFP 264. The specifications show they can carry 35 amps. With 8 in
                                  > > > parallel on each bank, I assume the the current capacity is 8 x
                                  35 =
                                  > > > 280 amps. But clearly, since the system is fused at 180 amp,
                                  they are
                                  > > > only running at 180/280 = 64%. (My logic may be flawed) I will keep
                                  > > > the group posted. I wonder if others have broken controllers on the
                                  > > > shelf. This is an opportunity to learn about VFD's, and I intend on
                                  > > > take advantage of it.
                                  > > > Bill S
                                  > > >
                                  > > > --- In solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com, "Gerard (Gary) Carlson "
                                  > > > <gjc0@> wrote:
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Bill:
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > A few other questions:
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > 0)?? Any idea about what caused the controller to fail?
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > 1)? Does anyone have a schematic of the AMC 325?
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > 2)? Are the MOSFETs the only thing that are fried?
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > 3)? Is the PC board intact or damaged?
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > My thinking is that it would be good to have an idea why the
                                  > > > controller failed.? This could direct you to also test the motor to
                                  > > > see if it has a shorted phase.? (Any decent motor shop should be
                                  able
                                  > > > to test it for you).
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > If Krispan is really expensive or takes to long to fix it you
                                  could
                                  > > > always try to repair the controller yourself (or via a skilled
                                  > > > electronics technician).
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Without a schematic, you need to become somewhat of a electronics
                                  > > > detective.? For example, the controller MOSFETs are arranged in a
                                  > > > three phase "H" bridge.? It consists of three branches tied to
                                  +V and
                                  > > > three branches tied to -V.? Are the fried MOSFETs on the same phase
                                  > > > of the motor??
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Do the fried MOSFETs share a common driver chip?? (if so replace
                                  > > > the driver also).
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Depending upon Krispan's fees, you might risk replacing the
                                  > > > MOSFETs / driver chip alone and see what happens.? (Get the motor
                                  > > > checked out also).
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > By the way, most motor shops at least know of industrial techs
                                  who
                                  > > > work on AC variable frequency drives (which is what our controllers
                                  > > > are)? If you shop around, you might find a brave soul who is
                                  willing
                                  > > > to give it a try.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Another thought is to find an under-employed tech who is
                                  willing to
                                  > > > reverse engineer the controller and make a schematic for you.? You
                                  > > > might get a few folks to share the expense if there is not a
                                  > > > controller schematic available.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Good luck, and let us know what you find.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Gary?Carlson
                                  > > > > gjc0@
                                  > > > > 1992 Solectria Force
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > -----Original Message-----
                                  > > > > From: Bill Swann <dbswann4@>
                                  > > > > To: solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com
                                  > > > > Sent: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 2:01 pm
                                  > > > > Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: Motor Connector Polarity
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > I opened up the controller (AMC-325) to discover some fried
                                  > > > MOSFETs.
                                  > > > > Has anyone been confronted with this, and what to do? Is the only
                                  > > > > repair facility www.Krispan. de ?
                                  > > > > Bill S
                                  > > > > --- In solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com, Dorothy Swann <dbswann4@>
                                  > > > > wrote:
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > Thanks Gary. this is precisely the problem that I am addressing-
                                  > > > "No
                                  > > > > response when I press the accelerator" . I had hoped to
                                  isolate the
                                  > > > > problem to the controller or the car.
                                  > > > > > Bill S
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > ----- Original Message ----
                                  > > > > > From: Gerard (Gary) Carlson <gjc0@>
                                  > > > > > To: solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com
                                  > > > > > Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 10:45:17 PM
                                  > > > > > Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Re: Motor Connector Polarity
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > Greings:
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > Three+ years ago I made a box that plugs into the DB-25 to
                                  > > > imitate
                                  > > > > the FWD/REV, economy knob?and Throttle of the car.? I
                                  disconnected
                                  > > > > the drive belt from the motor and "drove" the car from the
                                  box.? I
                                  > > > > used it to isolate a problem to either the car or the
                                  controller.?
                                  > > > > The controller is a Brusa AMC320.
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > Gary Carlson
                                  > > > > > gjc0@
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > -----Original Message-----
                                  > > > > > From: Bill Swann <dbswann4@yahoo. com>
                                  > > > > > To: solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com
                                  > > > > > Sent: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 1:30 pm
                                  > > > > > Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: Motor Connector Polarity
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > Has anyone tested the DB-25 connector that goes into the
                                  > > > controller?
                                  > > > > > What I mean is to insert a breakout male/female connector in
                                  the
                                  > > > > cable.
                                  > > > > > and test for voltages per the schematic shown in the file
                                  (in the
                                  > > > > file
                                  > > > > > section) called "E-10 Solectria Controllers AMCXXX.pdf"?
                                  > > > > > Thanks, Bill S
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > --- In solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com, "Bill Swann"
                                  <dbswann4@ .>
                                  > > > > wrote:
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > I was going to test a friend's controller because, in his
                                  car,
                                  > > > > there
                                  > > > > > > is no response when the accelerator is pressed. He also has a
                                  > > > > > marginal
                                  > > > > > > set of batteries. (156 volt full charge) Someone suggested
                                  > > > > putting a
                                  > > > > > > questionable controller in a car with a known good battery
                                  set-
                                  > > > > mine.
                                  > > > > > > So after I made all of the connections, I noticed that the
                                  > > > color
                                  > > > > > coding
                                  > > > > > > on the main motor connector was reversed. That is, red-
                                  > > > blue,white-
                                  > > > > > > white,blue-red, whereas my connector is red-red,blue-
                                  > > > blue,white-
                                  > > > > > white.
                                  > > > > > > I know that for a 3 phase motor, 2 legs are reversed to
                                  reverse
                                  > > > > the
                                  > > > > > > motor rotation direction. I halted the test at that point.
                                  Does
                                  > > > > > anyone
                                  > > > > > > have any feedback/suggestion s?
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
                                  > > > > > More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
                                  > > > > http://o.aolcdn. com/cdn.webmail. aol.com/mailtour /aol/en-us/
                                  > > > > text.htm? ncid=aolcmp00050 000000003
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
                                  > > > __
                                  > > > > More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
                                  > > > http://webmail. aol.com
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  > > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >
                                • Bill Swann
                                  I posted some photos on the Photo section called BRUSA Controller challenges . Bill S ... information ... uses a ... phase ... 3 ... some ... wasn t ...
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Jan 10, 2008
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                                    I posted some photos on the "Photo" section called "BRUSA Controller
                                    challenges".
                                    Bill S
                                    --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "ldr214" <replytome@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Thanks for clarifying that for me. I thought that was what you were
                                    > saying but wanted to make sure.
                                    >
                                    > The Force drive motor-
                                    > If you google "induction motors" you will find a wealth of
                                    information
                                    > on the web that should explain things in both simple and rather in
                                    > depth terminology with regards to to how they work. From my
                                    > perspective it is still somewhat cosmic. Our industrial society
                                    uses a
                                    > lot of them so it is nice to know info. there are simple single
                                    phase
                                    > motors like a room fan and when you need serious power you go for a
                                    3
                                    > phase work horse.
                                    >
                                    > Thanks for the posts on the controller, rather interesting.
                                    >
                                    > Mike
                                    >
                                    > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, Bill or Dorothy Swann
                                    > <dbswann4@> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > Hello Mike. No, I looked at the gap where an arc would have had to
                                    > jump, and it was too far (1/4"). So upon further examination, I
                                    > noticed that the arc was between voltages on 1 of 6 capacitors.
                                    > Actually, between one cap lead and a common buss bar. I will post
                                    some
                                    > pictures this evening.
                                    > > Kruspan Engineering has offered their services for repair, and so
                                    > has www.bipom.com . The latter is local.
                                    > >
                                    > > Bill S
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > ----- Original Message ----
                                    > > From: ldr214 <replytome@>
                                    > > To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                                    > > Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 11:17:46 AM
                                    > > Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: Motor Connector Polarity
                                    > >
                                    > > Bill could you clarify the info on shorting to a bolt head. I
                                    wasn't
                                    > > sure if you retracted that in your last post.
                                    > >
                                    > > Do you think the bolt caused the problem or it was just a
                                    recipient of
                                    > > damage as a result of another internal failure.
                                    > >
                                    > > Thanks,
                                    > > Mike Rydjord
                                    > >
                                    > > --- In solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com, Bill or Dorothy Swann
                                    > > <dbswann4@ .> wrote:
                                    > > >
                                    > > > I removed the heat sink amd discovered 1 of 3 pc boards that
                                    shorted
                                    > > to a bolt head. Clearly a defect. These boards communicate thru a
                                    flat
                                    > > cable to the mP.
                                    > > > Also, a blown 180 amp fuse within the unit. I will investigate
                                    > > this weekend.
                                    > > > I also ordered a book "Electrician' s Technical Reference:
                                    > > Variable Frequency Drives " to understand more about VFDs. One
                                    thing I
                                    > > do not understand is the motors and how they become a
                                    generartors. And
                                    > > what makes the watt meter turn backwards? I wish someone sold a
                                    VFD in
                                    > > kit form like the old Heathkit.
                                    > > > Bill S
                                    > > > PS there is no visible damage to the mP, and very few surface
                                    > > mounted components.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > ----- Original Message ----
                                    > > > From: Mike Phillips <mikep_95133@ ...>
                                    > > > To: solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com
                                    > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 9, 2008 12:59:17 PM
                                    > > > Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: Motor Connector Polarity
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Hi Bill,
                                    > > >
                                    > > > 98% of the time fets fail shorted. What can blow the fuse is
                                    that the
                                    > > > upper and lower fets for one of the phases either gets stuck on
                                    due to
                                    > > > being shorted, or something in the logic that drives the fets
                                    died
                                    > > > before they did and held the upper an lower fets on at the same
                                    time.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > I can almost guarantee that the fets took out the fet driver
                                    circuitry
                                    > > > as well. When the fets short, it connects the battery pack
                                    voltage to
                                    > > > the gate pin which usually has only 10-20v on it.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > It's possible in severe cases that the damage went from the
                                    fets to
                                    > > > the drivers to even the microprocessor. Look for distortion on
                                    the top
                                    > > > of the processor and see if it's normally finely textured
                                    surface is
                                    > > > flawed at all.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Look for a chip that is connected to each of the 6 fet drives
                                    and see
                                    > > > if they are obviously damaged. Post a part number if you can
                                    read one.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Are any of the components surface mount?
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Is there any evidence that a cable shorted to ground and caused
                                    all of
                                    > > > this?
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Mike
                                    > > >
                                    > > > --- In solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com, "Bill Swann"
                                    <dbswann4@ .>
                                    > wrote:
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Thanks Gary. The drive failed while driving with a 180 amp
                                    fuse
                                    > > > > failure. The pc board is intact and one or 2 MOSFETS on one
                                    bank of
                                    > > > > MOSFETS show thermal damage. I see the 3 phase H bridge, that
                                    is, I
                                    > > > > see 6 banks of 8 MOSFETS. 3 of the 6 banks are visible for
                                    > > > > inspection. There may be further damage. I will speak to a
                                    motor
                                    > man
                                    > > > > about testing the 3 phase motor. The failed MOSFETS are
                                    labeled as
                                    > > > > IRFP 264. The specifications show they can carry 35 amps.
                                    With 8 in
                                    > > > > parallel on each bank, I assume the the current capacity is 8
                                    x
                                    > 35 =
                                    > > > > 280 amps. But clearly, since the system is fused at 180 amp,
                                    > they are
                                    > > > > only running at 180/280 = 64%. (My logic may be flawed) I
                                    will keep
                                    > > > > the group posted. I wonder if others have broken controllers
                                    on the
                                    > > > > shelf. This is an opportunity to learn about VFD's, and I
                                    intend on
                                    > > > > take advantage of it.
                                    > > > > Bill S
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > --- In solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com, "Gerard (Gary)
                                    Carlson "
                                    > > > > <gjc0@> wrote:
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > Bill:
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > A few other questions:
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > 0)?? Any idea about what caused the controller to fail?
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > 1)? Does anyone have a schematic of the AMC 325?
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > 2)? Are the MOSFETs the only thing that are fried?
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > 3)? Is the PC board intact or damaged?
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > My thinking is that it would be good to have an idea why
                                    the
                                    > > > > controller failed.? This could direct you to also test the
                                    motor to
                                    > > > > see if it has a shorted phase.? (Any decent motor shop should
                                    be
                                    > able
                                    > > > > to test it for you).
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > If Krispan is really expensive or takes to long to fix it
                                    you
                                    > could
                                    > > > > always try to repair the controller yourself (or via a
                                    skilled
                                    > > > > electronics technician).
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > Without a schematic, you need to become somewhat of a
                                    electronics
                                    > > > > detective.? For example, the controller MOSFETs are arranged
                                    in a
                                    > > > > three phase "H" bridge.? It consists of three branches tied to
                                    > +V and
                                    > > > > three branches tied to -V.? Are the fried MOSFETs on the same
                                    phase
                                    > > > > of the motor??
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > Do the fried MOSFETs share a common driver chip?? (if so
                                    replace
                                    > > > > the driver also).
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > Depending upon Krispan's fees, you might risk replacing the
                                    > > > > MOSFETs / driver chip alone and see what happens.? (Get the
                                    motor
                                    > > > > checked out also).
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > By the way, most motor shops at least know of industrial
                                    techs
                                    > who
                                    > > > > work on AC variable frequency drives (which is what our
                                    controllers
                                    > > > > are)? If you shop around, you might find a brave soul who is
                                    > willing
                                    > > > > to give it a try.
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > Another thought is to find an under-employed tech who is
                                    > willing to
                                    > > > > reverse engineer the controller and make a schematic for
                                    you.? You
                                    > > > > might get a few folks to share the expense if there is not a
                                    > > > > controller schematic available.
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > Good luck, and let us know what you find.
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > Gary?Carlson
                                    > > > > > gjc0@
                                    > > > > > 1992 Solectria Force
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > -----Original Message-----
                                    > > > > > From: Bill Swann <dbswann4@>
                                    > > > > > To: solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com
                                    > > > > > Sent: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 2:01 pm
                                    > > > > > Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: Motor Connector Polarity
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > I opened up the controller (AMC-325) to discover some fried
                                    > > > > MOSFETs.
                                    > > > > > Has anyone been confronted with this, and what to do? Is
                                    the only
                                    > > > > > repair facility www.Krispan. de ?
                                    > > > > > Bill S
                                    > > > > > --- In solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com, Dorothy Swann
                                    <dbswann4@>
                                    > > > > > wrote:
                                    > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > Thanks Gary. this is precisely the problem that I am
                                    addressing-
                                    > > > > "No
                                    > > > > > response when I press the accelerator" . I had hoped to
                                    > isolate the
                                    > > > > > problem to the controller or the car.
                                    > > > > > > Bill S
                                    > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----
                                    > > > > > > From: Gerard (Gary) Carlson <gjc0@>
                                    > > > > > > To: solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com
                                    > > > > > > Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 10:45:17 PM
                                    > > > > > > Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Re: Motor Connector Polarity
                                    > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > Greings:
                                    > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > Three+ years ago I made a box that plugs into the DB-25
                                    to
                                    > > > > imitate
                                    > > > > > the FWD/REV, economy knob?and Throttle of the car.? I
                                    > disconnected
                                    > > > > > the drive belt from the motor and "drove" the car from the
                                    > box.? I
                                    > > > > > used it to isolate a problem to either the car or the
                                    > controller.?
                                    > > > > > The controller is a Brusa AMC320.
                                    > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > Gary Carlson
                                    > > > > > > gjc0@
                                    > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
                                    > > > > > > From: Bill Swann <dbswann4@yahoo. com>
                                    > > > > > > To: solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com
                                    > > > > > > Sent: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 1:30 pm
                                    > > > > > > Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: Motor Connector Polarity
                                    > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > Has anyone tested the DB-25 connector that goes into the
                                    > > > > controller?
                                    > > > > > > What I mean is to insert a breakout male/female connector
                                    in
                                    > the
                                    > > > > > cable.
                                    > > > > > > and test for voltages per the schematic shown in the file
                                    > (in the
                                    > > > > > file
                                    > > > > > > section) called "E-10 Solectria Controllers AMCXXX.pdf"?
                                    > > > > > > Thanks, Bill S
                                    > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > --- In solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com, "Bill Swann"
                                    > <dbswann4@ .>
                                    > > > > > wrote:
                                    > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > I was going to test a friend's controller because, in
                                    his
                                    > car,
                                    > > > > > there
                                    > > > > > > > is no response when the accelerator is pressed. He also
                                    has a
                                    > > > > > > marginal
                                    > > > > > > > set of batteries. (156 volt full charge) Someone
                                    suggested
                                    > > > > > putting a
                                    > > > > > > > questionable controller in a car with a known good
                                    battery
                                    > set-
                                    > > > > > mine.
                                    > > > > > > > So after I made all of the connections, I noticed that
                                    the
                                    > > > > color
                                    > > > > > > coding
                                    > > > > > > > on the main motor connector was reversed. That is, red-
                                    > > > > blue,white-
                                    > > > > > > > white,blue-red, whereas my connector is red-red,blue-
                                    > > > > blue,white-
                                    > > > > > > white.
                                    > > > > > > > I know that for a 3 phase motor, 2 legs are reversed to
                                    > reverse
                                    > > > > > the
                                    > > > > > > > motor rotation direction. I halted the test at that
                                    point.
                                    > Does
                                    > > > > > > anyone
                                    > > > > > > > have any feedback/suggestion s?
                                    > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________
                                    _________ _
                                    > > > > > > More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL
                                    Mail ! -
                                    > > > > > http://o.aolcdn. com/cdn.webmail. aol.com/mailtour /aol/en-
                                    us/
                                    > > > > > text.htm? ncid=aolcmp00050 000000003
                                    > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    > > > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________
                                    _________ _
                                    > > > > __
                                    > > > > > More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
                                    > > > > http://webmail. aol.com
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    > > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    > >
                                    >
                                  • Mike Phillips
                                    From the pics you posted it looks like the bad fet just spewed itself all over rather than there being a capacitor being shorted. Is the fet right across from
                                    Message 17 of 19 , Jan 10, 2008
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                                      From the pics you posted it looks like the bad fet just spewed itself
                                      all over rather than there being a capacitor being shorted. Is the fet
                                      right across from the bolt head area?

                                      When a fet lets go with that much energy behind it they can cause
                                      quite the plasma ball.

                                      Mike



                                      --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, Bill or Dorothy Swann
                                      <dbswann4@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Thanks for the tip.
                                      > The heat sink came off cleanly- no arcing here.
                                      > I took another look burn marks on a circuit board. I was mistaken.
                                      The pcb is opposite some large caps, and the arcing was between the
                                      leads of the caps. The pcb just had discoloration.
                                      > Bill S
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > ----- Original Message ----
                                      > From: Mike Phillips <mikep_95133@...>
                                      > To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                                      > Sent: Wednesday, January 9, 2008 8:04:33 PM
                                      > Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: Motor Connector Polarity
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Are there any arcing marks on the bolt head or the heat sink?
                                      >
                                      > Mike
                                      >
                                      > PS microprocessor is abbreviated uP :)
                                      >
                                      > --- In solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com, Bill or Dorothy Swann
                                      > <dbswann4@ .> wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > I removed the heat sink amd discovered 1 of 3 pc boards that shorted
                                      > to a bolt head. Clearly a defect. These boards communicate thru a flat
                                      > cable to the mP.
                                      > > Also, a blown 180 amp fuse within the unit. I will investigate
                                      > this weekend.
                                      > > I also ordered a book "Electrician' s Technical Reference:
                                      > Variable Frequency Drives " to understand more about VFDs. One thing I
                                      > do not understand is the motors and how they become a generartors. And
                                      > what makes the watt meter turn backwards? I wish someone sold a VFD in
                                      > kit form like the old Heathkit.
                                      > > Bill S
                                      > > PS there is no visible damage to the mP, and very few surface
                                      > mounted components.
                                      > >
                                      > > ----- Original Message ----
                                      > > From: Mike Phillips <mikep_95133@ ...>
                                      > > To: solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com
                                      > > Sent: Wednesday, January 9, 2008 12:59:17 PM
                                      > > Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: Motor Connector Polarity
                                      > >
                                      > > Hi Bill,
                                      > >
                                      > > 98% of the time fets fail shorted. What can blow the fuse is that the
                                      > > upper and lower fets for one of the phases either gets stuck on due to
                                      > > being shorted, or something in the logic that drives the fets died
                                      > > before they did and held the upper an lower fets on at the same time.
                                      > >
                                      > > I can almost guarantee that the fets took out the fet driver circuitry
                                      > > as well. When the fets short, it connects the battery pack voltage to
                                      > > the gate pin which usually has only 10-20v on it.
                                      > >
                                      > > It's possible in severe cases that the damage went from the fets to
                                      > > the drivers to even the microprocessor. Look for distortion on the top
                                      > > of the processor and see if it's normally finely textured surface is
                                      > > flawed at all.
                                      > >
                                      > > Look for a chip that is connected to each of the 6 fet drives and see
                                      > > if they are obviously damaged. Post a part number if you can read one.
                                      > >
                                      > > Are any of the components surface mount?
                                      > >
                                      > > Is there any evidence that a cable shorted to ground and caused all of
                                      > > this?
                                      > >
                                      > > Mike
                                      > >
                                      > > --- In solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com, "Bill Swann" <dbswann4@ .>
                                      wrote:
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Thanks Gary. The drive failed while driving with a 180 amp fuse
                                      > > > failure. The pc board is intact and one or 2 MOSFETS on one bank of
                                      > > > MOSFETS show thermal damage. I see the 3 phase H bridge, that is, I
                                      > > > see 6 banks of 8 MOSFETS. 3 of the 6 banks are visible for
                                      > > > inspection. There may be further damage. I will speak to a motor
                                      man
                                      > > > about testing the 3 phase motor. The failed MOSFETS are labeled as
                                      > > > IRFP 264. The specifications show they can carry 35 amps. With 8 in
                                      > > > parallel on each bank, I assume the the current capacity is 8 x
                                      35 =
                                      > > > 280 amps. But clearly, since the system is fused at 180 amp,
                                      they are
                                      > > > only running at 180/280 = 64%. (My logic may be flawed) I will keep
                                      > > > the group posted. I wonder if others have broken controllers on the
                                      > > > shelf. This is an opportunity to learn about VFD's, and I intend on
                                      > > > take advantage of it.
                                      > > > Bill S
                                      > > >
                                      > > > --- In solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com, "Gerard (Gary) Carlson "
                                      > > > <gjc0@> wrote:
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Bill:
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > A few other questions:
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > 0)?? Any idea about what caused the controller to fail?
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > 1)? Does anyone have a schematic of the AMC 325?
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > 2)? Are the MOSFETs the only thing that are fried?
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > 3)? Is the PC board intact or damaged?
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > My thinking is that it would be good to have an idea why the
                                      > > > controller failed.? This could direct you to also test the motor to
                                      > > > see if it has a shorted phase.? (Any decent motor shop should be
                                      able
                                      > > > to test it for you).
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > If Krispan is really expensive or takes to long to fix it you
                                      could
                                      > > > always try to repair the controller yourself (or via a skilled
                                      > > > electronics technician).
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Without a schematic, you need to become somewhat of a electronics
                                      > > > detective.? For example, the controller MOSFETs are arranged in a
                                      > > > three phase "H" bridge.? It consists of three branches tied to
                                      +V and
                                      > > > three branches tied to -V.? Are the fried MOSFETs on the same phase
                                      > > > of the motor??
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Do the fried MOSFETs share a common driver chip?? (if so replace
                                      > > > the driver also).
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Depending upon Krispan's fees, you might risk replacing the
                                      > > > MOSFETs / driver chip alone and see what happens.? (Get the motor
                                      > > > checked out also).
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > By the way, most motor shops at least know of industrial techs
                                      who
                                      > > > work on AC variable frequency drives (which is what our controllers
                                      > > > are)? If you shop around, you might find a brave soul who is
                                      willing
                                      > > > to give it a try.
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Another thought is to find an under-employed tech who is
                                      willing to
                                      > > > reverse engineer the controller and make a schematic for you.? You
                                      > > > might get a few folks to share the expense if there is not a
                                      > > > controller schematic available.
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Good luck, and let us know what you find.
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Gary?Carlson
                                      > > > > gjc0@
                                      > > > > 1992 Solectria Force
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > -----Original Message-----
                                      > > > > From: Bill Swann <dbswann4@>
                                      > > > > To: solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com
                                      > > > > Sent: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 2:01 pm
                                      > > > > Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: Motor Connector Polarity
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > I opened up the controller (AMC-325) to discover some fried
                                      > > > MOSFETs.
                                      > > > > Has anyone been confronted with this, and what to do? Is the only
                                      > > > > repair facility www.Krispan. de ?
                                      > > > > Bill S
                                      > > > > --- In solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com, Dorothy Swann <dbswann4@>
                                      > > > > wrote:
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > Thanks Gary. this is precisely the problem that I am addressing-
                                      > > > "No
                                      > > > > response when I press the accelerator" . I had hoped to
                                      isolate the
                                      > > > > problem to the controller or the car.
                                      > > > > > Bill S
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > ----- Original Message ----
                                      > > > > > From: Gerard (Gary) Carlson <gjc0@>
                                      > > > > > To: solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com
                                      > > > > > Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 10:45:17 PM
                                      > > > > > Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Re: Motor Connector Polarity
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > Greings:
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > Three+ years ago I made a box that plugs into the DB-25 to
                                      > > > imitate
                                      > > > > the FWD/REV, economy knob?and Throttle of the car.? I
                                      disconnected
                                      > > > > the drive belt from the motor and "drove" the car from the
                                      box.? I
                                      > > > > used it to isolate a problem to either the car or the
                                      controller.?
                                      > > > > The controller is a Brusa AMC320.
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > Gary Carlson
                                      > > > > > gjc0@
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > -----Original Message-----
                                      > > > > > From: Bill Swann <dbswann4@yahoo. com>
                                      > > > > > To: solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com
                                      > > > > > Sent: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 1:30 pm
                                      > > > > > Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: Motor Connector Polarity
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > Has anyone tested the DB-25 connector that goes into the
                                      > > > controller?
                                      > > > > > What I mean is to insert a breakout male/female connector in
                                      the
                                      > > > > cable.
                                      > > > > > and test for voltages per the schematic shown in the file
                                      (in the
                                      > > > > file
                                      > > > > > section) called "E-10 Solectria Controllers AMCXXX.pdf"?
                                      > > > > > Thanks, Bill S
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > --- In solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com, "Bill Swann"
                                      <dbswann4@ .>
                                      > > > > wrote:
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > I was going to test a friend's controller because, in his
                                      car,
                                      > > > > there
                                      > > > > > > is no response when the accelerator is pressed. He also has a
                                      > > > > > marginal
                                      > > > > > > set of batteries. (156 volt full charge) Someone suggested
                                      > > > > putting a
                                      > > > > > > questionable controller in a car with a known good battery
                                      set-
                                      > > > > mine.
                                      > > > > > > So after I made all of the connections, I noticed that the
                                      > > > color
                                      > > > > > coding
                                      > > > > > > on the main motor connector was reversed. That is, red-
                                      > > > blue,white-
                                      > > > > > > white,blue-red, whereas my connector is red-red,blue-
                                      > > > blue,white-
                                      > > > > > white.
                                      > > > > > > I know that for a 3 phase motor, 2 legs are reversed to
                                      reverse
                                      > > > > the
                                      > > > > > > motor rotation direction. I halted the test at that point.
                                      Does
                                      > > > > > anyone
                                      > > > > > > have any feedback/suggestion s?
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
                                      > > > > > More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
                                      > > > > http://o.aolcdn. com/cdn.webmail. aol.com/mailtour /aol/en-us/
                                      > > > > text.htm? ncid=aolcmp00050 000000003
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
                                      > > > __
                                      > > > > More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
                                      > > > http://webmail. aol.com
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      > > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      >
                                    • Bill Swann
                                      The fet connects to a pcb, the same one to which the cap connects, and they are adjacent. I will dis-assemble the unit further this weekend. Bill S ... itself
                                      Message 18 of 19 , Jan 11, 2008
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                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        The fet connects to a pcb, the same one to which the cap connects,
                                        and they are adjacent. I will dis-assemble the unit further this
                                        weekend.
                                        Bill S
                                        --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Phillips"
                                        <mikep_95133@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > From the pics you posted it looks like the bad fet just spewed
                                        itself
                                        > all over rather than there being a capacitor being shorted. Is the
                                        fet
                                        > right across from the bolt head area?
                                        >
                                        > When a fet lets go with that much energy behind it they can cause
                                        > quite the plasma ball.
                                        >
                                        > Mike
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, Bill or Dorothy Swann
                                        > <dbswann4@> wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > > Thanks for the tip.
                                        > > The heat sink came off cleanly- no arcing here.
                                        > > I took another look burn marks on a circuit board. I was mistaken.
                                        > The pcb is opposite some large caps, and the arcing was between the
                                        > leads of the caps. The pcb just had discoloration.
                                        > > Bill S
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > ----- Original Message ----
                                        > > From: Mike Phillips <mikep_95133@>
                                        > > To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                                        > > Sent: Wednesday, January 9, 2008 8:04:33 PM
                                        > > Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: Motor Connector Polarity
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > Are there any arcing marks on the bolt head or the heat sink?
                                        > >
                                        > > Mike
                                        > >
                                        > > PS microprocessor is abbreviated uP :)
                                        > >
                                        > > --- In solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com, Bill or Dorothy Swann
                                        > > <dbswann4@ .> wrote:
                                        > > >
                                        > > > I removed the heat sink amd discovered 1 of 3 pc boards that
                                        shorted
                                        > > to a bolt head. Clearly a defect. These boards communicate thru a
                                        flat
                                        > > cable to the mP.
                                        > > > Also, a blown 180 amp fuse within the unit. I will investigate
                                        > > this weekend.
                                        > > > I also ordered a book "Electrician' s Technical Reference:
                                        > > Variable Frequency Drives " to understand more about VFDs. One
                                        thing I
                                        > > do not understand is the motors and how they become a
                                        generartors. And
                                        > > what makes the watt meter turn backwards? I wish someone sold a
                                        VFD in
                                        > > kit form like the old Heathkit.
                                        > > > Bill S
                                        > > > PS there is no visible damage to the mP, and very few surface
                                        > > mounted components.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > ----- Original Message ----
                                        > > > From: Mike Phillips <mikep_95133@ ...>
                                        > > > To: solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com
                                        > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 9, 2008 12:59:17 PM
                                        > > > Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: Motor Connector Polarity
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Hi Bill,
                                        > > >
                                        > > > 98% of the time fets fail shorted. What can blow the fuse is
                                        that the
                                        > > > upper and lower fets for one of the phases either gets stuck on
                                        due to
                                        > > > being shorted, or something in the logic that drives the fets
                                        died
                                        > > > before they did and held the upper an lower fets on at the same
                                        time.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > I can almost guarantee that the fets took out the fet driver
                                        circuitry
                                        > > > as well. When the fets short, it connects the battery pack
                                        voltage to
                                        > > > the gate pin which usually has only 10-20v on it.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > It's possible in severe cases that the damage went from the
                                        fets to
                                        > > > the drivers to even the microprocessor. Look for distortion on
                                        the top
                                        > > > of the processor and see if it's normally finely textured
                                        surface is
                                        > > > flawed at all.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Look for a chip that is connected to each of the 6 fet drives
                                        and see
                                        > > > if they are obviously damaged. Post a part number if you can
                                        read one.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Are any of the components surface mount?
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Is there any evidence that a cable shorted to ground and caused
                                        all of
                                        > > > this?
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Mike
                                        > > >
                                        > > > --- In solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com, "Bill Swann"
                                        <dbswann4@ .>
                                        > wrote:
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Thanks Gary. The drive failed while driving with a 180 amp
                                        fuse
                                        > > > > failure. The pc board is intact and one or 2 MOSFETS on one
                                        bank of
                                        > > > > MOSFETS show thermal damage. I see the 3 phase H bridge, that
                                        is, I
                                        > > > > see 6 banks of 8 MOSFETS. 3 of the 6 banks are visible for
                                        > > > > inspection. There may be further damage. I will speak to a
                                        motor
                                        > man
                                        > > > > about testing the 3 phase motor. The failed MOSFETS are
                                        labeled as
                                        > > > > IRFP 264. The specifications show they can carry 35 amps.
                                        With 8 in
                                        > > > > parallel on each bank, I assume the the current capacity is 8
                                        x
                                        > 35 =
                                        > > > > 280 amps. But clearly, since the system is fused at 180 amp,
                                        > they are
                                        > > > > only running at 180/280 = 64%. (My logic may be flawed) I
                                        will keep
                                        > > > > the group posted. I wonder if others have broken controllers
                                        on the
                                        > > > > shelf. This is an opportunity to learn about VFD's, and I
                                        intend on
                                        > > > > take advantage of it.
                                        > > > > Bill S
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > --- In solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com, "Gerard (Gary)
                                        Carlson "
                                        > > > > <gjc0@> wrote:
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > Bill:
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > A few other questions:
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > 0)?? Any idea about what caused the controller to fail?
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > 1)? Does anyone have a schematic of the AMC 325?
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > 2)? Are the MOSFETs the only thing that are fried?
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > 3)? Is the PC board intact or damaged?
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > My thinking is that it would be good to have an idea why
                                        the
                                        > > > > controller failed.? This could direct you to also test the
                                        motor to
                                        > > > > see if it has a shorted phase.? (Any decent motor shop should
                                        be
                                        > able
                                        > > > > to test it for you).
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > If Krispan is really expensive or takes to long to fix it
                                        you
                                        > could
                                        > > > > always try to repair the controller yourself (or via a
                                        skilled
                                        > > > > electronics technician).
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > Without a schematic, you need to become somewhat of a
                                        electronics
                                        > > > > detective.? For example, the controller MOSFETs are arranged
                                        in a
                                        > > > > three phase "H" bridge.? It consists of three branches tied to
                                        > +V and
                                        > > > > three branches tied to -V.? Are the fried MOSFETs on the same
                                        phase
                                        > > > > of the motor??
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > Do the fried MOSFETs share a common driver chip?? (if so
                                        replace
                                        > > > > the driver also).
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > Depending upon Krispan's fees, you might risk replacing the
                                        > > > > MOSFETs / driver chip alone and see what happens.? (Get the
                                        motor
                                        > > > > checked out also).
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > By the way, most motor shops at least know of industrial
                                        techs
                                        > who
                                        > > > > work on AC variable frequency drives (which is what our
                                        controllers
                                        > > > > are)? If you shop around, you might find a brave soul who is
                                        > willing
                                        > > > > to give it a try.
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > Another thought is to find an under-employed tech who is
                                        > willing to
                                        > > > > reverse engineer the controller and make a schematic for
                                        you.? You
                                        > > > > might get a few folks to share the expense if there is not a
                                        > > > > controller schematic available.
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > Good luck, and let us know what you find.
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > Gary?Carlson
                                        > > > > > gjc0@
                                        > > > > > 1992 Solectria Force
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > -----Original Message-----
                                        > > > > > From: Bill Swann <dbswann4@>
                                        > > > > > To: solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com
                                        > > > > > Sent: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 2:01 pm
                                        > > > > > Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: Motor Connector Polarity
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > I opened up the controller (AMC-325) to discover some fried
                                        > > > > MOSFETs.
                                        > > > > > Has anyone been confronted with this, and what to do? Is
                                        the only
                                        > > > > > repair facility www.Krispan. de ?
                                        > > > > > Bill S
                                        > > > > > --- In solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com, Dorothy Swann
                                        <dbswann4@>
                                        > > > > > wrote:
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > Thanks Gary. this is precisely the problem that I am
                                        addressing-
                                        > > > > "No
                                        > > > > > response when I press the accelerator" . I had hoped to
                                        > isolate the
                                        > > > > > problem to the controller or the car.
                                        > > > > > > Bill S
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----
                                        > > > > > > From: Gerard (Gary) Carlson <gjc0@>
                                        > > > > > > To: solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com
                                        > > > > > > Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 10:45:17 PM
                                        > > > > > > Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Re: Motor Connector Polarity
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > Greings:
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > Three+ years ago I made a box that plugs into the DB-25
                                        to
                                        > > > > imitate
                                        > > > > > the FWD/REV, economy knob?and Throttle of the car.? I
                                        > disconnected
                                        > > > > > the drive belt from the motor and "drove" the car from the
                                        > box.? I
                                        > > > > > used it to isolate a problem to either the car or the
                                        > controller.?
                                        > > > > > The controller is a Brusa AMC320.
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > Gary Carlson
                                        > > > > > > gjc0@
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
                                        > > > > > > From: Bill Swann <dbswann4@yahoo. com>
                                        > > > > > > To: solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com
                                        > > > > > > Sent: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 1:30 pm
                                        > > > > > > Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: Motor Connector Polarity
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > Has anyone tested the DB-25 connector that goes into the
                                        > > > > controller?
                                        > > > > > > What I mean is to insert a breakout male/female connector
                                        in
                                        > the
                                        > > > > > cable.
                                        > > > > > > and test for voltages per the schematic shown in the file
                                        > (in the
                                        > > > > > file
                                        > > > > > > section) called "E-10 Solectria Controllers AMCXXX.pdf"?
                                        > > > > > > Thanks, Bill S
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > --- In solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com, "Bill Swann"
                                        > <dbswann4@ .>
                                        > > > > > wrote:
                                        > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > > I was going to test a friend's controller because, in
                                        his
                                        > car,
                                        > > > > > there
                                        > > > > > > > is no response when the accelerator is pressed. He also
                                        has a
                                        > > > > > > marginal
                                        > > > > > > > set of batteries. (156 volt full charge) Someone
                                        suggested
                                        > > > > > putting a
                                        > > > > > > > questionable controller in a car with a known good
                                        battery
                                        > set-
                                        > > > > > mine.
                                        > > > > > > > So after I made all of the connections, I noticed that
                                        the
                                        > > > > color
                                        > > > > > > coding
                                        > > > > > > > on the main motor connector was reversed. That is, red-
                                        > > > > blue,white-
                                        > > > > > > > white,blue-red, whereas my connector is red-red,blue-
                                        > > > > blue,white-
                                        > > > > > > white.
                                        > > > > > > > I know that for a 3 phase motor, 2 legs are reversed to
                                        > reverse
                                        > > > > > the
                                        > > > > > > > motor rotation direction. I halted the test at that
                                        point.
                                        > Does
                                        > > > > > > anyone
                                        > > > > > > > have any feedback/suggestion s?
                                        > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________
                                        _________ _
                                        > > > > > > More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL
                                        Mail ! -
                                        > > > > > http://o.aolcdn. com/cdn.webmail. aol.com/mailtour /aol/en-
                                        us/
                                        > > > > > text.htm? ncid=aolcmp00050 000000003
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > >
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                                      • Ray Darby
                                        Check out this page - http://www.evalbum.com/1175 Apparently he rebuilt his controller and may be able to help. ... From: Gerard (Gary) Carlson To:
                                        Message 19 of 19 , Jan 11, 2008
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                                          Check out this page -

                                          http://www.evalbum.com/1175

                                          Apparently he rebuilt his controller and may be able to help.

                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                          From: Gerard (Gary) Carlson
                                          To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                                          Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 9:26 PM
                                          Subject: [solectria_ev] Damaged AMC325 controller



                                          Bill:

                                          Some times when MOSFETs fail, they become a short.? A short across the power supply (150+ volts) will cause the 180 amp fuse to blow.? It may also have put stress on the?complementary leg of the H-bridge.

                                          My guess is that for some reason, some MOSFETs failed and took out other things (hopefully only the fuse) with it.

                                          The circuit that controls the MOSFET gates is critical.? If it fails in any condition but absolutely OFF, things will fry.?? A failure that turns the MOSFETs on will cause the power rail short mentioned above.? A failure that results in a MOSFET being partially on (even for a small time) will cause death by rapid overheating.

                                          If you are willing to tackle this job yourself, you could try removing any of the obviously failed MOSFETs and attempt to reconnect the controller to the batteries with maybe only a 20 amp fuse (to limit any further damage).? In place of the motor, a three phase bank of 130 volt light bulbs might be a good, lower current?test load.

                                          This all depends on your spirit of adventure.? Are you the MIT physicist or am I confusing you with someone else?

                                          Take lots of pictures and keep up posted.

                                          Sincerely,

                                          Gary Carlson
                                          1992 Solectria Force
                                          gjc0@...

                                          -----Original Message-----
                                          From: Bill Swann <dbswann4@...>
                                          To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                                          Sent: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 4:57 pm
                                          Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: Motor Connector Polarity

                                          Thanks Gary. The drive failed while driving with a 180 amp fuse
                                          failure. The pc board is intact and one or 2 MOSFETS on one bank of
                                          MOSFETS show thermal damage. I see the 3 phase H bridge, that is, I
                                          see 6 banks of 8 MOSFETS. 3 of the 6 banks are visible for
                                          inspection. There may be further damage. I will speak to a motor man
                                          about testing the 3 phase motor. The failed MOSFETS are labeled as
                                          IRFP 264. The specifications show they can carry 35 amps. With 8 in
                                          parallel on each bank, I assume the the current capacity is 8 x 35 =
                                          280 amps. But clearly, since the system is fused at 180 amp, they are
                                          only running at 180/280 = 64%. (My logic may be flawed) I will keep
                                          the group posted. I wonder if others have broken controllers on the
                                          shelf. This is an opportunity to learn about VFD's, and I intend on
                                          take advantage of it.
                                          Bill S

                                          --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "Gerard (Gary) Carlson "
                                          <gjc0@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Bill:
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > A few other questions:
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > 0)?? Any idea about what caused the controller to fail?
                                          >
                                          > 1)? Does anyone have a schematic of the AMC 325?
                                          >
                                          > 2)? Are the MOSFETs the only thing that are fried?
                                          >
                                          > 3)? Is the PC board intact or damaged?
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > My thinking is that it would be good to have an idea why the
                                          controller failed.? This could direct you to also test the motor to
                                          see if it has a shorted phase.? (Any decent motor shop should be able
                                          to test it for you).
                                          >
                                          > If Krispan is really expensive or takes to long to fix it you could
                                          always try to repair the controller yourself (or via a skilled
                                          electronics technician).
                                          >
                                          > Without a schematic, you need to become somewhat of a electronics
                                          detective.? For example, the controller MOSFETs are arranged in a
                                          three phase "H" bridge.? It consists of three branches tied to +V and
                                          three branches tied to -V.? Are the fried MOSFETs on the same phase
                                          of the motor??
                                          >
                                          > Do the fried MOSFETs share a common driver chip?? (if so replace
                                          the driver also).
                                          >
                                          > Depending upon Krispan's fees, you might risk replacing the
                                          MOSFETs / driver chip alone and see what happens.? (Get the motor
                                          checked out also).
                                          >
                                          > By the way, most motor shops at least know of industrial techs who
                                          work on AC variable frequency drives (which is what our controllers
                                          are)? If you shop around, you might find a brave soul who is willing
                                          to give it a try.
                                          >
                                          > Another thought is to find an under-employed tech who is willing to
                                          reverse engineer the controller and make a schematic for you.? You
                                          might get a few folks to share the expense if there is not a
                                          controller schematic available.
                                          >
                                          > Good luck, and let us know what you find.
                                          >
                                          > Gary?Carlson
                                          > gjc0@...
                                          > 1992 Solectria Force
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > -----Original Message-----
                                          > From: Bill Swann <dbswann4@...>
                                          > To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                                          > Sent: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 2:01 pm
                                          > Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: Motor Connector Polarity
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > I opened up the controller (AMC-325) to discover some fried
                                          MOSFETs.
                                          > Has anyone been confronted with this, and what to do? Is the only
                                          > repair facility www.Krispan.de ?
                                          > Bill S
                                          > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, Dorothy Swann <dbswann4@>
                                          > wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > > Thanks Gary. this is precisely the problem that I am addressing-
                                          "No
                                          > response when I press the accelerator". I had hoped to isolate the
                                          > problem to the controller or the car.
                                          > > Bill S
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > ----- Original Message ----
                                          > > From: Gerard (Gary) Carlson <gjc0@>
                                          > > To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                                          > > Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 10:45:17 PM
                                          > > Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Re: Motor Connector Polarity
                                          > >
                                          > > Greings:
                                          > >
                                          > > Three+ years ago I made a box that plugs into the DB-25 to
                                          imitate
                                          > the FWD/REV, economy knob?and Throttle of the car.? I disconnected
                                          > the drive belt from the motor and "drove" the car from the box.? I
                                          > used it to isolate a problem to either the car or the controller.?
                                          > The controller is a Brusa AMC320.
                                          > >
                                          > > Gary Carlson
                                          > > gjc0@
                                          > >
                                          > > -----Original Message-----
                                          > > From: Bill Swann <dbswann4@yahoo. com>
                                          > > To: solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com
                                          > > Sent: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 1:30 pm
                                          > > Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: Motor Connector Polarity
                                          > >
                                          > > Has anyone tested the DB-25 connector that goes into the
                                          controller?
                                          > > What I mean is to insert a breakout male/female connector in the
                                          > cable.
                                          > > and test for voltages per the schematic shown in the file (in the
                                          > file
                                          > > section) called "E-10 Solectria Controllers AMCXXX.pdf"?
                                          > > Thanks, Bill S
                                          > >
                                          > > --- In solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com, "Bill Swann" <dbswann4@ .>
                                          > wrote:
                                          > > >
                                          > > > I was going to test a friend's controller because, in his car,
                                          > there
                                          > > > is no response when the accelerator is pressed. He also has a
                                          > > marginal
                                          > > > set of batteries. (156 volt full charge) Someone suggested
                                          > putting a
                                          > > > questionable controller in a car with a known good battery set-
                                          > mine.
                                          > > > So after I made all of the connections, I noticed that the
                                          color
                                          > > coding
                                          > > > on the main motor connector was reversed. That is, red-
                                          blue,white-
                                          > > > white,blue-red, whereas my connector is red-red,blue-
                                          blue,white-
                                          > > white.
                                          > > > I know that for a 3 phase motor, 2 legs are reversed to reverse
                                          > the
                                          > > > motor rotation direction. I halted the test at that point. Does
                                          > > anyone
                                          > > > have any feedback/suggestion s?
                                          > > >
                                          > >
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