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Understanding Monlog Data for Brusa NLG4 (warning, long post)

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  • larsthelean
    I have been trying to decipher the rather crytic text displayed on the Monlog screen. Below is a rough snapshot of the text. Note this is coming from a car
    Message 1 of 17 , Aug 31, 2007
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      I have been trying to decipher the rather crytic text displayed on
      the Monlog screen. Below is a rough snapshot of the text. Note this
      is coming from a car with a 156V lead acid pack.

      COMBI - monitor program on COM 1: Version 2.44, Brusa Elektronik Co,
      1997

      Status NLG4:0 Um_pk[V]:330.00 Tpstg[C]47.53 power[%]100.00
      Imains[Amp]:15.100 Um_eff[V]:246.00 Tbat1[C]31.10 Pprim[W]3680
      Ibatt[Amp]:18.802 Ubatt[V]:178.00 Tbat2[C]31.5 F_out[Hz]:50000
      Tbatt[C]31.50 Psec[W]3348
      Section:1 Sect1 Sect2 Sect3 Sect4 Sum1-5 total Calc E
      time [min] 38.1 0.0 0.0 0.0 38.1 357913.9 0.0
      charge[ah] 12.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 12.0 35194.5 -1.3
      energy[wh] 2338 0 0 0 2338 6944521 0
      UBmin[V] 151.57 499.99 499.99 499.99 151.57 1.80
      UBmax[V] 178.28 0 0 0 178.28 251.36
      TBmin[C] 31.54 100.00 100.00 100.00 31.54 -25
      TBmax[C] 32.12 -100.00 -100.00 -100.00 32.12 51.61

      I'll try to explain the fields that I think I understand, and then
      ask if anyone can help with the remainder.

      All of the fields with [C] also have the little degree sign, so they
      are obviously associated with temperature in celsius. All of the
      fields with [V] would be in volts, [ah] would be amp-hours, [min] is
      minutes, [%] is percentage.

      Status NLG4: 0 should give the charger's current status, with 0 being
      in good health and a different number means something is wrong, per
      the table that pops up if you press F1.

      Imains[Amp] has the number vary slightly while the charger is
      operating, and I believe it is the amount of amps that the charger is
      drawing from the house.

      Ibatt[Amp] also varies slightly while charging, and I am guessing it
      is the amount of amps that the charger is supplying to the
      batteries. Since my snapshot shows that the Imains number is smaller
      than the Ibatt number. Since the charger is getting 240V from the
      house, the 15.1A * 246V = 3715W coming in. The batteries are getting
      18.802A * 178V = 3347W with the difference being lost from heat or
      whatever.

      Um-pk[V] is a mystery to me.
      Umeff[V] I think is the voltage coming in from the house.
      Ubatt[V] I think is the voltage feeding into the batteries.
      Tpstg[C] is a mystery to me.
      Tbat1[C] I think is the temperature in battery box #1 (whichever that
      is)
      Tbat2[C] I think is the temperature in battery box #2
      Tbatt[C] I think is the highest temperature measured, which is the
      temperature used to compensate the charging cycle somehow.
      power[%] is a mystery to me, although it could just mean "full power"
      Pprim[W] I think is the power (in Watts) that is being supplied to
      the charger from the house.
      F_out[Hz] fluctuates during charging, and I think is the frequency of
      the DC voltage going into the batteries. As a layman, I thought only
      AC had a frequency (like 60Hz) and DC was flat...
      Psec[W] I think is the power (in Watts) that is being supplied to the
      batteries.

      time[min] has its value accumulate during charging, and is likely the
      time spent charging. Only section 1 on my screen seems active, with
      sections 2,3,4 & 5 unused. I wonder if this is true for other people.

      charge[ah] also accumulates during charging, and counts the Amp-Hours
      charged back into the batteries.

      energy[wh] also accumulates during charging, and counts the Watt-
      Hours charged back into the batteries.

      UBmin[V] this value stays the same through charging, I think it is
      the voltage of the batteries when the charger first began its charge
      cycle.

      UBmax[V] this value has been slowly creeping up during the charge
      cycle. Perhaps this is the batteries current voltage.

      TBmin[C] this value seems to creep down during the charge cycle
      (which is occurring late in the evening). So, this may be the lowest
      temperature observed during the charge cycle. This is mysterious
      since it is higher than the Tbat values!

      TBmax[C] this value has stayed constant through the charging cycle,
      probably because the temperature outside has been dropping. So, this
      may be the highest temperature observed during the charge cycle.

      the Calc E values are a complete mystery to me.

      So, these are my thoughts on the Monlog data. If anyone can provide
      any insight, confirmations, or corrections I would very much
      appreciate it!!!

      Thanks in advance,

      Todd Martin
      1997 Solectria
    • rod864
      I think you have it about right. I is current and U is voltage. I d guess that Um_pk is the peak voltage of the AC sine wave on the input (mains) and Um_eff
      Message 2 of 17 , Sep 24, 2007
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        I think you have it about right. I is current and U is voltage. I'd
        guess that Um_pk is the peak voltage of the AC sine wave on the input
        (mains) and Um_eff is the average or RMS voltage, I don't know which.

        Tpstg is the temperature of the charger's power semiconductors. The
        charger is a switching type, and F_out is the frequency at which the
        power supply is chopping the rectified DC from the mains. This seems
        to vary as the charger varies its output.

        I don't know for sure about Pprim, but I'd guess it's current power
        being used from the mains (that is "power at primary," meaning the
        primary of the power transformer). Psec ("power at secondary") is
        probably power being delivered to the battery or, more precisely,
        power measured at the secondary of the power transformer.

        I think the energy (lower part of the table) is actually Wh delivered
        to the battery, not Wh consumed from the mains, but I'm not sure. Not
        so sure about power% but it may refer to the fact that these chargers
        have an external input that allows one to throttle the charger back
        for lower power usage. I think CalcE refers to internal calculations
        that the charger's firmware is able to carry out for some kinds of
        charge profiles, but it's probably not used here.

        Tbat1 is the temp read by temp sender #1, Tbat2 the temp from sender
        #2, and Tbatt is probably either the higher of the two or the average
        of the two, I don't know which. Tbmin and Tbmax would be the minimum
        and maximum battery temperatures seen during this charge cycle Ubmin
        would be the minimum battery voltage the charger's processor has seen
        since the charge cycle started, Ubmax the maximum.

        The "sections" refer to the charge stages; the charger moves through
        these, using different parameters in each, as the charge progresses
        and certain conditions are met (or at least it >should< move through
        them). If you load a copy of the control software (nlg_e.exe) and
        experiment with it on your computer - you don't have to have the
        charger connected, but you may have to run it under DOS 6 - some of
        how this works may become more clear.

        If you don't have a copy of the manual, try this one :

        http://evdl.org/docs/NLG4xx-B_64.pdf

        Hope this helps.

        D

        --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "larsthelean" <larsthelean@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > I have been trying to decipher the rather crytic text displayed on
        > the Monlog screen. Below is a rough snapshot of the text. Note this
        > is coming from a car with a 156V lead acid pack.
        >
        > COMBI - monitor program on COM 1: Version 2.44, Brusa Elektronik Co,
        > 1997
        >
        > Status NLG4:0 Um_pk[V]:330.00 Tpstg[C]47.53 power[%]100.00
        > Imains[Amp]:15.100 Um_eff[V]:246.00 Tbat1[C]31.10 Pprim[W]3680
        > Ibatt[Amp]:18.802 Ubatt[V]:178.00 Tbat2[C]31.5 F_out[Hz]:50000
        > Tbatt[C]31.50 Psec[W]3348
        > Section:1 Sect1 Sect2 Sect3 Sect4 Sum1-5 total Calc E
        > time [min] 38.1 0.0 0.0 0.0 38.1 357913.9 0.0
        > charge[ah] 12.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 12.0 35194.5 -1.3
        > energy[wh] 2338 0 0 0 2338 6944521 0
        > UBmin[V] 151.57 499.99 499.99 499.99 151.57 1.80
        > UBmax[V] 178.28 0 0 0 178.28 251.36
        > TBmin[C] 31.54 100.00 100.00 100.00 31.54 -25
        > TBmax[C] 32.12 -100.00 -100.00 -100.00 32.12 51.61
        >
        > I'll try to explain the fields that I think I understand, and then
        > ask if anyone can help with the remainder.
        >
        > All of the fields with [C] also have the little degree sign, so they
        > are obviously associated with temperature in celsius. All of the
        > fields with [V] would be in volts, [ah] would be amp-hours, [min] is
        > minutes, [%] is percentage.
        >
        > Status NLG4: 0 should give the charger's current status, with 0 being
        > in good health and a different number means something is wrong, per
        > the table that pops up if you press F1.
        >
        > Imains[Amp] has the number vary slightly while the charger is
        > operating, and I believe it is the amount of amps that the charger is
        > drawing from the house.
        >
        > Ibatt[Amp] also varies slightly while charging, and I am guessing it
        > is the amount of amps that the charger is supplying to the
        > batteries. Since my snapshot shows that the Imains number is smaller
        > than the Ibatt number. Since the charger is getting 240V from the
        > house, the 15.1A * 246V = 3715W coming in. The batteries are getting
        > 18.802A * 178V = 3347W with the difference being lost from heat or
        > whatever.
        >
        > Um-pk[V] is a mystery to me.
        > Umeff[V] I think is the voltage coming in from the house.
        > Ubatt[V] I think is the voltage feeding into the batteries.
        > Tpstg[C] is a mystery to me.
        > Tbat1[C] I think is the temperature in battery box #1 (whichever that
        > is)
        > Tbat2[C] I think is the temperature in battery box #2
        > Tbatt[C] I think is the highest temperature measured, which is the
        > temperature used to compensate the charging cycle somehow.
        > power[%] is a mystery to me, although it could just mean "full power"
        > Pprim[W] I think is the power (in Watts) that is being supplied to
        > the charger from the house.
        > F_out[Hz] fluctuates during charging, and I think is the frequency of
        > the DC voltage going into the batteries. As a layman, I thought only
        > AC had a frequency (like 60Hz) and DC was flat...
        > Psec[W] I think is the power (in Watts) that is being supplied to the
        > batteries.
        >
        > time[min] has its value accumulate during charging, and is likely the
        > time spent charging. Only section 1 on my screen seems active, with
        > sections 2,3,4 & 5 unused. I wonder if this is true for other people.
        >
        > charge[ah] also accumulates during charging, and counts the Amp-Hours
        > charged back into the batteries.
        >
        > energy[wh] also accumulates during charging, and counts the Watt-
        > Hours charged back into the batteries.
        >
        > UBmin[V] this value stays the same through charging, I think it is
        > the voltage of the batteries when the charger first began its charge
        > cycle.
        >
        > UBmax[V] this value has been slowly creeping up during the charge
        > cycle. Perhaps this is the batteries current voltage.
        >
        > TBmin[C] this value seems to creep down during the charge cycle
        > (which is occurring late in the evening). So, this may be the lowest
        > temperature observed during the charge cycle. This is mysterious
        > since it is higher than the Tbat values!
        >
        > TBmax[C] this value has stayed constant through the charging cycle,
        > probably because the temperature outside has been dropping. So, this
        > may be the highest temperature observed during the charge cycle.
        >
        > the Calc E values are a complete mystery to me.
        >
        > So, these are my thoughts on the Monlog data. If anyone can provide
        > any insight, confirmations, or corrections I would very much
        > appreciate it!!!
        >
        > Thanks in advance,
        >
        > Todd Martin
        > 1997 Solectria
        >
      • Stephen Taylor
        My AH counter died a while back and I am just now trying to trouble shoot it. So far I have determined that the pack voltage isn t getting to the AH counter
        Message 3 of 17 , Nov 9, 2007
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          My AH counter died a while back and I am just now trying to trouble shoot it. So far I have determined that the pack voltage isn't getting to the AH counter box. The voltage, however, is present on the car side of the 4 pin Deutch connector. I disconnected the deutch and pulled the box out. I noted that there was a big lump between the connector and the box screw terminals so I cut that open and found that the Red Pack Positive Wire was broken. With my bad eyesight I thought I should just fix the break, but as I got to working I noted that whatever was broken looked more like some kind of resistor or something. It has a blue dot on the top and isn't more than an eighth of an inch long.

          Does anyone know what it is (including its value/stats) and where to get a replacement.

          Stephen Taylor

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        • David Patterson
          The lump is a filter added by Solectria on the DC to the AH meter primary feed. Mine was chared but I replaced with a 1000 ohm 1/4 watt. The capacitor is 47
          Message 4 of 17 , Nov 9, 2007
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            The "lump" is a filter added by Solectria on the DC to the AH meter primary feed. Mine was chared but I replaced with a 1000 ohm 1/4 watt. The capacitor is 47 ufd . The resistor als acts as a fuse in this installation. There is a 100 ma (0.1) amp inside the AH controller box under the dash. If the resistor went, you may have a short. Open counter box and check circuit board under connecto;, very close foil pattern and have seen several short there as a result of moisture.

            Hope this helps.

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Stephen Taylor
            To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 3:37 PM
            Subject: [solectria_ev] AH Counter


            My AH counter died a while back and I am just now trying to trouble shoot it. So far I have determined that the pack voltage isn't getting to the AH counter box. The voltage, however, is present on the car side of the 4 pin Deutch connector. I disconnected the deutch and pulled the box out. I noted that there was a big lump between the connector and the box screw terminals so I cut that open and found that the Red Pack Positive Wire was broken. With my bad eyesight I thought I should just fix the break, but as I got to working I noted that whatever was broken looked more like some kind of resistor or something. It has a blue dot on the top and isn't more than an eighth of an inch long.

            Does anyone know what it is (including its value/stats) and where to get a replacement.

            Stephen Taylor

            __________________________________________________
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            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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          • Stephen Taylor
            Thanks David. Looks like you are right. Apparently there was a short as there is a little blackened area inside. Is this something I could get fixed or is
            Message 5 of 17 , Nov 9, 2007
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              Thanks David. Looks like you are right. Apparently there was a short as there is a little blackened area inside. Is this something I could get fixed or is the unit toast? I'm also assuming there are no replacement parts available for this anymore.

              Stephen Taylor

              David Patterson <DRPatterson@...> wrote:
              The "lump" is a filter added by Solectria on the DC to the AH meter primary feed. Mine was chared but I replaced with a 1000 ohm 1/4 watt. The capacitor is 47 ufd . The resistor als acts as a fuse in this installation. There is a 100 ma (0.1) amp inside the AH controller box under the dash. If the resistor went, you may have a short. Open counter box and check circuit board under connecto;, very close foil pattern and have seen several short there as a result of moisture.

              Hope this helps.

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Stephen Taylor
              To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 3:37 PM
              Subject: [solectria_ev] AH Counter

              My AH counter died a while back and I am just now trying to trouble shoot it. So far I have determined that the pack voltage isn't getting to the AH counter box. The voltage, however, is present on the car side of the 4 pin Deutch connector. I disconnected the deutch and pulled the box out. I noted that there was a big lump between the connector and the box screw terminals so I cut that open and found that the Red Pack Positive Wire was broken. With my bad eyesight I thought I should just fix the break, but as I got to working I noted that whatever was broken looked more like some kind of resistor or something. It has a blue dot on the top and isn't more than an eighth of an inch long.

              Does anyone know what it is (including its value/stats) and where to get a replacement.

              Stephen Taylor

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              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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            • David Patterson
              Stephen: Long answer: I have had some success in repairing the shorting problem at or near the connector on the circuit board. If the 100 ma fuse inside is
              Message 6 of 17 , Nov 10, 2007
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                Stephen:
                Long answer:
                I have had some success in repairing the shorting problem at or near the connector on the circuit board. If the 100 ma fuse inside is good, chances are the board/circuit is OK and the filter resistor acted as a fuse when input shorted over at edge of circuit board. Look at that area for burned board traces, water trails, etc. I isolated and bypassed that area and ran wire from screw connector to inside board fuse holder after cleaning up burnt area. Coated with clear RTV to further isolate.

                You also have another 2 amp fuse for the AH meter under the hood, in added fuse box.

                I am not sure that the resistor was 1000 ohms but when short was repaired, resistor replaced, unit is working OK. Filter is not documented in any diagrams I have seen.

                Short answer:
                You may be able to save the unit, It is worth giving it a look. I don't think BRUSA makes the meter anymore, other brands are available. See Xantrex Link 10 product for example.

                David Patterson
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Stephen Taylor
                To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 8:52 PM
                Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] AH Counter


                Thanks David. Looks like you are right. Apparently there was a short as there is a little blackened area inside. Is this something I could get fixed or is the unit toast? I'm also assuming there are no replacement parts available for this anymore.

                Stephen Taylor

                David Patterson <DRPatterson@...> wrote:
                The "lump" is a filter added by Solectria on the DC to the AH meter primary feed. Mine was chared but I replaced with a 1000 ohm 1/4 watt. The capacitor is 47 ufd . The resistor als acts as a fuse in this installation. There is a 100 ma (0.1) amp inside the AH controller box under the dash. If the resistor went, you may have a short. Open counter box and check circuit board under connecto;, very close foil pattern and have seen several short there as a result of moisture.

                Hope this helps.

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Stephen Taylor
                To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 3:37 PM
                Subject: [solectria_ev] AH Counter

                My AH counter died a while back and I am just now trying to trouble shoot it. So far I have determined that the pack voltage isn't getting to the AH counter box. The voltage, however, is present on the car side of the 4 pin Deutch connector. I disconnected the deutch and pulled the box out. I noted that there was a big lump between the connector and the box screw terminals so I cut that open and found that the Red Pack Positive Wire was broken. With my bad eyesight I thought I should just fix the break, but as I got to working I noted that whatever was broken looked more like some kind of resistor or something. It has a blue dot on the top and isn't more than an eighth of an inch long.

                Does anyone know what it is (including its value/stats) and where to get a replacement.

                Stephen Taylor

                __________________________________________________
                Do You Yahoo!?
                Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                http://mail.yahoo.com

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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              • Stephen Taylor
                David: Thanks for the info. The 100mA fuse is still good and the 2amp fuse under the hood did blow, but a had repaced that quite a while back. All the
                Message 7 of 17 , Nov 10, 2007
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                  David:

                  Thanks for the info. The 100mA fuse is still good and the 2amp fuse under the hood did blow, but a had repaced that quite a while back. All the blackened area does seem to be right at the 2 pins where pack voltage comes into the circuit board so maybe nothing else is damaged. I'll see if I can get a friend to work on it since I'm not at all good with intricate work like this.

                  Stephen

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                • sparrow262
                  David: Thanks for the advise. I got a person at Georgia Tech to do what you suggested, bypassing the short and replacing the resistor, and the AH counter is
                  Message 8 of 17 , Dec 3, 2007
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                    David:

                    Thanks for the advise. I got a person at Georgia Tech to do what you
                    suggested, bypassing the short and replacing the resistor, and the AH
                    counter is working once again.

                    Stephen

                    --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "David Patterson"
                    <DRPatterson@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Stephen:
                    > Long answer:
                    > I have had some success in repairing the shorting problem at or
                    near the connector on the circuit board. If the 100 ma fuse inside is
                    good, chances are the board/circuit is OK and the filter resistor
                    acted as a fuse when input shorted over at edge of circuit board.
                    Look at that area for burned board traces, water trails, etc. I
                    isolated and bypassed that area and ran wire from screw connector to
                    inside board fuse holder after cleaning up burnt area. Coated with
                    clear RTV to further isolate.
                    >
                    > You also have another 2 amp fuse for the AH meter under the hood,
                    in added fuse box.
                    >
                    > I am not sure that the resistor was 1000 ohms but when short was
                    repaired, resistor replaced, unit is working OK. Filter is not
                    documented in any diagrams I have seen.
                    >
                    > Short answer:
                    > You may be able to save the unit, It is worth giving it a look. I
                    don't think BRUSA makes the meter anymore, other brands are
                    available. See Xantrex Link 10 product for example.
                    >
                    > David Patterson
                  • David Patterson
                    Stephen: Glad I could help and that you were able to get your AH meter working. My opinion, next to the original charger issues which are well documented in
                    Message 9 of 17 , Dec 3, 2007
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                      Stephen:
                      Glad I could help and that you were able to get your AH meter working. My opinion, next to the original charger issues which are well documented in this forum, I believe the AH meter is the next "weak link", at least in my vehicles. I suspect many have "failed" for the same reason, particularly in the vehicles that are/where used where there is high humidity and wide temperature changes (Eastern US) causing moisture to break down the conformal coating in the close spaces between the Vbat foil patterns, etc.

                      I think it speaks well of this forum when we can exchange this type of information and keep the vehicles operating. Hopefully others may be able to "repair" their meters, too.

                      David Patterson

                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: sparrow262
                      To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 8:50 AM
                      Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: AH Counter


                      David:

                      Thanks for the advise. I got a person at Georgia Tech to do what you
                      suggested, bypassing the short and replacing the resistor, and the AH
                      counter is working once again.

                      Stephen

                      --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "David Patterson"
                      <DRPatterson@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Stephen:
                      > Long answer:
                      > I have had some success in repairing the shorting problem at or
                      near the connector on the circuit board. If the 100 ma fuse inside is
                      good, chances are the board/circuit is OK and the filter resistor
                      acted as a fuse when input shorted over at edge of circuit board.
                      Look at that area for burned board traces, water trails, etc. I
                      isolated and bypassed that area and ran wire from screw connector to
                      inside board fuse holder after cleaning up burnt area. Coated with
                      clear RTV to further isolate.
                      >
                      > You also have another 2 amp fuse for the AH meter under the hood,
                      in added fuse box.
                      >
                      > I am not sure that the resistor was 1000 ohms but when short was
                      repaired, resistor replaced, unit is working OK. Filter is not
                      documented in any diagrams I have seen.
                      >
                      > Short answer:
                      > You may be able to save the unit, It is worth giving it a look. I
                      don't think BRUSA makes the meter anymore, other brands are
                      available. See Xantrex Link 10 product for example.
                      >
                      > David Patterson





                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • joshuasgoldstein
                      David Patterson and everyone: My AH meter died ( 99 Force) and it turned out to be _exactly_ the problem described in the recent exchange between David
                      Message 10 of 17 , Dec 20, 2007
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                        David Patterson and everyone:
                        My AH meter died ('99 Force) and it turned out to be _exactly_ the
                        problem described in the recent exchange between David Patterson and
                        Stephen Taylor. As David noted, the AH meter seems to be a weak link
                        that many of us will need to deal with.
                        The symptoms were a blown 2A high-voltage fuse under the hood, an
                        intact fuse on the AH box circuit board, a lot of scorching where pins
                        1 and 2 come into the board with high voltage, and a short circuit
                        across those 2 pins.
                        My question is where to get the board repaired. I can try
                        Solectria (Azure Dynamics) and wait quite a while. Or maybe David
                        wants to earn some money doing these for us as they fail one by one??
                        Or should I do what Stephen did and try to find a local
                        electronics-minded person? Any advice?
                        And the second question is, do I need to find and repair the
                        "filter" described in the earlier post? If so is there any more info
                        available about how to get to it and remove it from the vehicle?
                        Thanks!
                        - Joshua Goldstein


                        --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "David Patterson"
                        <DRPatterson@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Stephen:
                        > Long answer:
                        > I have had some success in repairing the shorting problem at or near
                        the connector on the circuit board. If the 100 ma fuse inside is good,
                        chances are the board/circuit is OK and the filter resistor acted as a
                        fuse when input shorted over at edge of circuit board. Look at that
                        area for burned board traces, water trails, etc. I isolated and
                        bypassed that area and ran wire from screw connector to inside board
                        fuse holder after cleaning up burnt area. Coated with clear RTV to
                        further isolate.
                        >
                        > You also have another 2 amp fuse for the AH meter under the hood, in
                        added fuse box.
                        >
                        > I am not sure that the resistor was 1000 ohms but when short was
                        repaired, resistor replaced, unit is working OK. Filter is not
                        documented in any diagrams I have seen.
                        >
                        > Short answer:
                        > You may be able to save the unit, It is worth giving it a look. I
                        don't think BRUSA makes the meter anymore, other brands are available.
                        See Xantrex Link 10 product for example.
                        >
                        > David Patterson
                        > ----- Original Message -----
                        > From: Stephen Taylor
                        > To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                        > Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 8:52 PM
                        > Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] AH Counter
                        >
                        >
                        > Thanks David. Looks like you are right. Apparently there was a
                        short as there is a little blackened area inside. Is this something I
                        could get fixed or is the unit toast? I'm also assuming there are no
                        replacement parts available for this anymore.
                        >
                        > Stephen Taylor
                        >
                        > David Patterson <DRPatterson@...> wrote:
                        > The "lump" is a filter added by Solectria on the DC to the AH
                        meter primary feed. Mine was chared but I replaced with a 1000 ohm 1/4
                        watt. The capacitor is 47 ufd . The resistor als acts as a fuse in
                        this installation. There is a 100 ma (0.1) amp inside the AH
                        controller box under the dash. If the resistor went, you may have a
                        short. Open counter box and check circuit board under connecto;, very
                        close foil pattern and have seen several short there as a result of
                        moisture.
                        >
                        > Hope this helps.
                        >
                        > ----- Original Message -----
                        > From: Stephen Taylor
                        > To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                        > Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 3:37 PM
                        > Subject: [solectria_ev] AH Counter
                        >
                        > My AH counter died a while back and I am just now trying to
                        trouble shoot it. So far I have determined that the pack voltage isn't
                        getting to the AH counter box. The voltage, however, is present on the
                        car side of the 4 pin Deutch connector. I disconnected the deutch and
                        pulled the box out. I noted that there was a big lump between the
                        connector and the box screw terminals so I cut that open and found
                        that the Red Pack Positive Wire was broken. With my bad eyesight I
                        thought I should just fix the break, but as I got to working I noted
                        that whatever was broken looked more like some kind of resistor or
                        something. It has a blue dot on the top and isn't more than an eighth
                        of an inch long.
                        >
                        > Does anyone know what it is (including its value/stats) and where
                        to get a replacement.
                        >
                        > Stephen Taylor
                        >
                        > __________________________________________________
                        > Do You Yahoo!?
                        > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                        > http://mail.yahoo.com
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
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                        >
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                        > http://mail.yahoo.com
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                      • David Patterson
                        Joshua: Well your s is about the fifth one I have heard about or repaired myself. I would suggest you first try someone locally, it is not too difficult to
                        Message 11 of 17 , Dec 20, 2007
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                          Joshua:
                          Well your's is about the fifth one I have heard about or repaired myself. I would suggest you first try someone locally, it is not too difficult to isolate and rewire directly from the screw terminal on the back of the circuit board to the on board fuse holder. (Check this fuse also, 100ma, if you have not done so, it should be OK if only connector shorting problem). As noted, coat end of board with RTV or equivalent and fully isolate any remaining positive voltage back into the "chared" areas.

                          The inline filter is easy to recognize. Follow the red (?) lead from the AH meter box, back into the conversion wiring. It may be cabled with tie wraps. It is about 1 inch or more in diameter, several inches long and wrapped with black electrical tape. My experience, It will have to be repaired also (~ 1000 ohm 1/4 watt resistor) but the "filter" can be unplugged and removed for repair with the control box.

                          Again, I think part of the failure mechanism is moisture and cars that are or have been on the East coast, or other high humidity areas, may see this failure, dryer climates, it may not be a problem.

                          Dave


                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: joshuasgoldstein
                          To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 5:24 PM
                          Subject: [solectria_ev] Another AH Counter Box Short


                          David Patterson and everyone:
                          My AH meter died ('99 Force) and it turned out to be _exactly_ the
                          problem described in the recent exchange between David Patterson and
                          Stephen Taylor. As David noted, the AH meter seems to be a weak link
                          that many of us will need to deal with.
                          The symptoms were a blown 2A high-voltage fuse under the hood, an
                          intact fuse on the AH box circuit board, a lot of scorching where pins
                          1 and 2 come into the board with high voltage, and a short circuit
                          across those 2 pins.
                          My question is where to get the board repaired. I can try
                          Solectria (Azure Dynamics) and wait quite a while. Or maybe David
                          wants to earn some money doing these for us as they fail one by one??
                          Or should I do what Stephen did and try to find a local
                          electronics-minded person? Any advice?
                          And the second question is, do I need to find and repair the
                          "filter" described in the earlier post? If so is there any more info
                          available about how to get to it and remove it from the vehicle?
                          Thanks!
                          - Joshua Goldstein

                          --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "David Patterson"
                          <DRPatterson@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Stephen:
                          > Long answer:
                          > I have had some success in repairing the shorting problem at or near
                          the connector on the circuit board. If the 100 ma fuse inside is good,
                          chances are the board/circuit is OK and the filter resistor acted as a
                          fuse when input shorted over at edge of circuit board. Look at that
                          area for burned board traces, water trails, etc. I isolated and
                          bypassed that area and ran wire from screw connector to inside board
                          fuse holder after cleaning up burnt area. Coated with clear RTV to
                          further isolate.
                          >
                          > You also have another 2 amp fuse for the AH meter under the hood, in
                          added fuse box.
                          >
                          > I am not sure that the resistor was 1000 ohms but when short was
                          repaired, resistor replaced, unit is working OK. Filter is not
                          documented in any diagrams I have seen.
                          >
                          > Short answer:
                          > You may be able to save the unit, It is worth giving it a look. I
                          don't think BRUSA makes the meter anymore, other brands are available.
                          See Xantrex Link 10 product for example.
                          >
                          > David Patterson
                          > ----- Original Message -----
                          > From: Stephen Taylor
                          > To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                          > Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 8:52 PM
                          > Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] AH Counter
                          >
                          >
                          > Thanks David. Looks like you are right. Apparently there was a
                          short as there is a little blackened area inside. Is this something I
                          could get fixed or is the unit toast? I'm also assuming there are no
                          replacement parts available for this anymore.
                          >
                          > Stephen Taylor
                          >
                          > David Patterson <DRPatterson@...> wrote:
                          > The "lump" is a filter added by Solectria on the DC to the AH
                          meter primary feed. Mine was chared but I replaced with a 1000 ohm 1/4
                          watt. The capacitor is 47 ufd . The resistor als acts as a fuse in
                          this installation. There is a 100 ma (0.1) amp inside the AH
                          controller box under the dash. If the resistor went, you may have a
                          short. Open counter box and check circuit board under connecto;, very
                          close foil pattern and have seen several short there as a result of
                          moisture.
                          >
                          > Hope this helps.
                          >
                          > ----- Original Message -----
                          > From: Stephen Taylor
                          > To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                          > Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 3:37 PM
                          > Subject: [solectria_ev] AH Counter
                          >
                          > My AH counter died a while back and I am just now trying to
                          trouble shoot it. So far I have determined that the pack voltage isn't
                          getting to the AH counter box. The voltage, however, is present on the
                          car side of the 4 pin Deutch connector. I disconnected the deutch and
                          pulled the box out. I noted that there was a big lump between the
                          connector and the box screw terminals so I cut that open and found
                          that the Red Pack Positive Wire was broken. With my bad eyesight I
                          thought I should just fix the break, but as I got to working I noted
                          that whatever was broken looked more like some kind of resistor or
                          something. It has a blue dot on the top and isn't more than an eighth
                          of an inch long.
                          >
                          > Does anyone know what it is (including its value/stats) and where
                          to get a replacement.
                          >
                          > Stephen Taylor
                          >
                          > __________________________________________________
                          > Do You Yahoo!?
                          > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                          > http://mail.yahoo.com
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                          > __________________________________________________
                          > Do You Yahoo!?
                          > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                          > http://mail.yahoo.com
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >





                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • ldr214
                          Todd, I recalled your old post when I was looking through some files tonight. ... I hope you got the answer you were looking for back in September. Here is the
                          Message 12 of 17 , Dec 27, 2007
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                            Todd,
                            I recalled your old post when I was looking through some files tonight.

                            > I have been trying to decipher the rather crytic text displayed on
                            > the Monlog screen. Below is a rough snapshot of the text. Note this
                            > is coming from a car with a 156V lead acid pack............


                            I hope you got the answer you were looking for back in September.
                            Here is the info from the Brusa readme files. I put a copy in the
                            files section it has a pretty good description. It is a text file
                            PRG_E. Here is partial list of the text in the Monolog in case some
                            one searches messages they will likely get a hit here.


                            Description of the program NLGMON.EXE
                            -------------------------------------


                            Status: operating or error status of the NLG4 (Status 0 = O.K.)
                            decimal number, wich consists (additiv) of:
                            > malfunction * 1
                            > error overvoltage mains * 2
                            > error overvoltage battery * 4
                            > error connection battery temp. sensor #1 * 8
                            > error connection battery temp. sensor #2 * 16
                            > error overtemperature battery * 32
                            > error maximum energy overflow * 64
                            > error maximum charge overflow * 128
                            > error maximum time overflow * 256

                            Section: section of the charing profile
                            Imains : current from mains
                            Ibatt : current to battery
                            Um_pk : voltage mains peak value
                            Umeff : voltage mains effective value
                            Ubatt : voltage of the battery
                            Tpstg : temperature of the power stage
                            Tbat1 : temperature battery sensor #1
                            Tbat2 : temperature battery sensor #2
                            Tbatt : the maximum of the sensor #1 and the sensor #2 temperature
                            power : value of the power-limitating potentiometer in percent
                            Pprim : primary (input) power
                            Psec : secondary (output) power
                            F_out : nominal switching frequency of the power stage

                            The following values are listed separatly for each section, as sum
                            over all
                            sections and as accumulated total value for the battery or charger life.

                            time : charging time
                            charge : charged amp.-hours
                            energy : charged amount of energy
                            UB min.: minimum battery voltage
                            UB max.: maximum battery voltage
                            TB min.: minimum battery temperature
                            TB max.: maximum battery temperature

                            With "calc.รค" some program internal sums for overcharge calculations
                            can be
                            also shown on the screen.

                            For SAFT profile (special charger) there is also:

                            Pilot : software amp.-hour counter
                            OvrChrg: total overcharged amp.-hours (reset after maint.-chrg)
                            DisChrg: total discharged amp.-hours
                            NormChr: total normal-charged amp.-hours
                            FastChr: total fast-charged amp.-hours
                            NextEqu: discharged amp.-hours for the next equalisation charge
                          • Joshua Goldstein
                            All, I ve successfully repaired my amp hour meter using David Patterson s excellent information. I thought I would post a summary since this seems to be a
                            Message 13 of 17 , Jan 12, 2008
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                              All,
                              I've successfully repaired my amp hour meter using David Patterson's
                              excellent information. I thought I would post a summary since this
                              seems to be a common problem.

                              SYMPTOMS: A dead AH meter, a blown 2A high-voltage fuse under the hood,
                              an intact fuse on the AH box circuit board, a lot of scorching where
                              pins 1 and 2 come into the board with high voltage, and a short circuit
                              across those 2 pins.
                              As a reminder, the 2A fuse under the hood is on the passenger side,
                              rear-ish with a set of 4 high-voltage fuses -- see my earlier post about
                              getting the right fuse in the right place.

                              CAUSE: Water condenses inside the AH controller box at the point where
                              the red and black wires come in (1 and 2 connectors) carrying the
                              battery voltage of 156V. It shorts and scorches everything around.
                              This may be an East Coast problem owing to humidity.

                              PARTS: You will need a new 2A, 250V fuse, a new 1000 ohm, 1/4 watt
                              resistor (both available at Radio Shack), and your soldering stuff or a
                              local electronics repair shop (as I used).

                              PROCEDURE: The AH controller box is located behind the dash. Access it
                              as described in the service manual (don't forget to unplug the car and
                              disconnect the Anderson service connect near those fuses under the
                              hood). Basically remove three screws, pull out the lower dash cover
                              from the top left, pull out two plastic plugs and remove a piece of
                              styrofoam, then remove four bolts and a metal plate. You'll see the
                              black plastic controller box inside. Remove the smaller of the two
                              connectors that are at opposite ends of the box, and then follow the
                              larger one along past a lumpy thing to another connector and remove it
                              there. When you have the box out you can disconnect this lumpy
                              connector wire from the box; both will need repair.
                              Inside the lumpy part of the wire, under insulating tape, you will
                              find the remains of a small resistor, probably just the ends with the
                              middle completely vaporized. Clean things up, replace it with the new
                              resistor and wrap it back up.
                              Remove four small bolts at the end of the controller box and gently
                              pull the circuit board out along a track inside the box. Where pins 1
                              and 2 come onto the board, clean up all the scorching. Now apply the
                              Patterson Method: Isolate the area of the short from any incoming
                              voltage and bypass that area by running wire from screw connector (for
                              #1 pin) to inside-board fuse holder. Coat with clear RTV to further
                              isolate and prevent a recurrence. Check that the fuse on the board is
                              still good; if so the rest of the board should be fine. (The little
                              vaporized resistor acted as a fuse before the fuse did.)
                              Put everything back together, replace the blown 2A fuse under the
                              hood, and add your name to the list of people who owe David Patterson a
                              favor in our next life.
                              Happy driving,
                              Joshua Goldstein ('99 Force)


                              David Patterson wrote:
                              > Joshua:
                              > Well your's is about the fifth one I have heard about or repaired myself. I would suggest you first try someone locally, it is not too difficult to isolate and rewire directly from the screw terminal on the back of the circuit board to the on board fuse holder. (Check this fuse also, 100ma, if you have not done so, it should be OK if only connector shorting problem). As noted, coat end of board with RTV or equivalent and fully isolate any remaining positive voltage back into the "chared" areas.
                              >
                              > The inline filter is easy to recognize. Follow the red (?) lead from the AH meter box, back into the conversion wiring. It may be cabled with tie wraps. It is about 1 inch or more in diameter, several inches long and wrapped with black electrical tape. My experience, It will have to be repaired also (~ 1000 ohm 1/4 watt resistor) but the "filter" can be unplugged and removed for repair with the control box.
                              >
                              > Again, I think part of the failure mechanism is moisture and cars that are or have been on the East coast, or other high humidity areas, may see this failure, dryer climates, it may not be a problem.
                              >
                              > Dave
                              >
                              >
                              > ----- Original Message -----
                              > From: joshuasgoldstein
                              > To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                              > Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 5:24 PM
                              > Subject: [solectria_ev] Another AH Counter Box Short
                              >
                              >
                              > David Patterson and everyone:
                              > My AH meter died ('99 Force) and it turned out to be _exactly_ the
                              > problem described in the recent exchange between David Patterson and
                              > Stephen Taylor. As David noted, the AH meter seems to be a weak link
                              > that many of us will need to deal with.
                              > The symptoms were a blown 2A high-voltage fuse under the hood, an
                              > intact fuse on the AH box circuit board, a lot of scorching where pins
                              > 1 and 2 come into the board with high voltage, and a short circuit
                              > across those 2 pins.
                              > My question is where to get the board repaired. I can try
                              > Solectria (Azure Dynamics) and wait quite a while. Or maybe David
                              > wants to earn some money doing these for us as they fail one by one??
                              > Or should I do what Stephen did and try to find a local
                              > electronics-minded person? Any advice?
                              > And the second question is, do I need to find and repair the
                              > "filter" described in the earlier post? If so is there any more info
                              > available about how to get to it and remove it from the vehicle?
                              > Thanks!
                              > - Joshua Goldstein
                              >
                              > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "David Patterson"
                              > <DRPatterson@...> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > Stephen:
                              > > Long answer:
                              > > I have had some success in repairing the shorting problem at or near
                              > the connector on the circuit board. If the 100 ma fuse inside is good,
                              > chances are the board/circuit is OK and the filter resistor acted as a
                              > fuse when input shorted over at edge of circuit board. Look at that
                              > area for burned board traces, water trails, etc. I isolated and
                              > bypassed that area and ran wire from screw connector to inside board
                              > fuse holder after cleaning up burnt area. Coated with clear RTV to
                              > further isolate.
                              > >
                              > > You also have another 2 amp fuse for the AH meter under the hood, in
                              > added fuse box.
                              > >
                              > > I am not sure that the resistor was 1000 ohms but when short was
                              > repaired, resistor replaced, unit is working OK. Filter is not
                              > documented in any diagrams I have seen.
                              > >
                              > > Short answer:
                              > > You may be able to save the unit, It is worth giving it a look. I
                              > don't think BRUSA makes the meter anymore, other brands are available.
                              > See Xantrex Link 10 product for example.
                              > >
                              > > David Patterson
                              > > ----- Original Message -----
                              > > From: Stephen Taylor
                              > > To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                              > > Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 8:52 PM
                              > > Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] AH Counter
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Thanks David. Looks like you are right. Apparently there was a
                              > short as there is a little blackened area inside. Is this something I
                              > could get fixed or is the unit toast? I'm also assuming there are no
                              > replacement parts available for this anymore.
                              > >
                              > > Stephen Taylor
                              > >
                              > > David Patterson <DRPatterson@...> wrote:
                              > > The "lump" is a filter added by Solectria on the DC to the AH
                              > meter primary feed. Mine was chared but I replaced with a 1000 ohm 1/4
                              > watt. The capacitor is 47 ufd . The resistor als acts as a fuse in
                              > this installation. There is a 100 ma (0.1) amp inside the AH
                              > controller box under the dash. If the resistor went, you may have a
                              > short. Open counter box and check circuit board under connecto;, very
                              > close foil pattern and have seen several short there as a result of
                              > moisture.
                              > >
                              > > Hope this helps.
                              > >
                              > > ----- Original Message -----
                              > > From: Stephen Taylor
                              > > To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                              > > Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 3:37 PM
                              > > Subject: [solectria_ev] AH Counter
                              > >
                              > > My AH counter died a while back and I am just now trying to
                              > trouble shoot it. So far I have determined that the pack voltage isn't
                              > getting to the AH counter box. The voltage, however, is present on the
                              > car side of the 4 pin Deutch connector. I disconnected the deutch and
                              > pulled the box out. I noted that there was a big lump between the
                              > connector and the box screw terminals so I cut that open and found
                              > that the Red Pack Positive Wire was broken. With my bad eyesight I
                              > thought I should just fix the break, but as I got to working I noted
                              > that whatever was broken looked more like some kind of resistor or
                              > something. It has a blue dot on the top and isn't more than an eighth
                              > of an inch long.
                              > >
                              > > Does anyone know what it is (including its value/stats) and where
                              > to get a replacement.
                              > >
                              > > Stephen Taylor
                              > >
                              > > __________________________________________________
                              > > Do You Yahoo!?
                              > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                              > > http://mail.yahoo.com
                              > >
                              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              > >
                              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              > >
                              > > __________________________________________________
                              > > Do You Yahoo!?
                              > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                              > > http://mail.yahoo.com
                              > >
                              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              > >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
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                              >
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                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
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                            • David Patterson
                              Joshua: Glad you were successful with your repair and thanks for posting the excellent summary for others to use, although the original post is getting a
                              Message 14 of 17 , Jan 12, 2008
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                                Joshua:
                                Glad you were successful with your repair and thanks for posting the excellent summary for others to use, although the original post is getting a little long.

                                As noted before, a strength of this Forum is to transfer this type of knowledge to each other, for these vehicles; I have benefited from others contributions, also, and I hope it continues.

                                David Patterson

                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: Joshua Goldstein
                                To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 12:12 PM
                                Subject: [SPAM] Re: [solectria_ev] Another AH Counter Box Short


                                All,
                                I've successfully repaired my amp hour meter using David Patterson's
                                excellent information. I thought I would post a summary since this
                                seems to be a common problem.

                                SYMPTOMS: A dead AH meter, a blown 2A high-voltage fuse under the hood,
                                an intact fuse on the AH box circuit board, a lot of scorching where
                                pins 1 and 2 come into the board with high voltage, and a short circuit
                                across those 2 pins.
                                As a reminder, the 2A fuse under the hood is on the passenger side,
                                rear-ish with a set of 4 high-voltage fuses -- see my earlier post about
                                getting the right fuse in the right place.

                                CAUSE: Water condenses inside the AH controller box at the point where
                                the red and black wires come in (1 and 2 connectors) carrying the
                                battery voltage of 156V. It shorts and scorches everything around.
                                This may be an East Coast problem owing to humidity.

                                PARTS: You will need a new 2A, 250V fuse, a new 1000 ohm, 1/4 watt
                                resistor (both available at Radio Shack), and your soldering stuff or a
                                local electronics repair shop (as I used).

                                PROCEDURE: The AH controller box is located behind the dash. Access it
                                as described in the service manual (don't forget to unplug the car and
                                disconnect the Anderson service connect near those fuses under the
                                hood). Basically remove three screws, pull out the lower dash cover
                                from the top left, pull out two plastic plugs and remove a piece of
                                styrofoam, then remove four bolts and a metal plate. You'll see the
                                black plastic controller box inside. Remove the smaller of the two
                                connectors that are at opposite ends of the box, and then follow the
                                larger one along past a lumpy thing to another connector and remove it
                                there. When you have the box out you can disconnect this lumpy
                                connector wire from the box; both will need repair.
                                Inside the lumpy part of the wire, under insulating tape, you will
                                find the remains of a small resistor, probably just the ends with the
                                middle completely vaporized. Clean things up, replace it with the new
                                resistor and wrap it back up.
                                Remove four small bolts at the end of the controller box and gently
                                pull the circuit board out along a track inside the box. Where pins 1
                                and 2 come onto the board, clean up all the scorching. Now apply the
                                Patterson Method: Isolate the area of the short from any incoming
                                voltage and bypass that area by running wire from screw connector (for
                                #1 pin) to inside-board fuse holder. Coat with clear RTV to further
                                isolate and prevent a recurrence. Check that the fuse on the board is
                                still good; if so the rest of the board should be fine. (The little
                                vaporized resistor acted as a fuse before the fuse did.)
                                Put everything back together, replace the blown 2A fuse under the
                                hood, and add your name to the list of people who owe David Patterson a
                                favor in our next life.
                                Happy driving,
                                Joshua Goldstein ('99 Force)

                                David Patterson wrote:
                                > Joshua:
                                > Well your's is about the fifth one I have heard about or repaired myself. I would suggest you first try someone locally, it is not too difficult to isolate and rewire directly from the screw terminal on the back of the circuit board to the on board fuse holder. (Check this fuse also, 100ma, if you have not done so, it should be OK if only connector shorting problem). As noted, coat end of board with RTV or equivalent and fully isolate any remaining positive voltage back into the "chared" areas.
                                >
                                > The inline filter is easy to recognize. Follow the red (?) lead from the AH meter box, back into the conversion wiring. It may be cabled with tie wraps. It is about 1 inch or more in diameter, several inches long and wrapped with black electrical tape. My experience, It will have to be repaired also (~ 1000 ohm 1/4 watt resistor) but the "filter" can be unplugged and removed for repair with the control box.
                                >
                                > Again, I think part of the failure mechanism is moisture and cars that are or have been on the East coast, or other high humidity areas, may see this failure, dryer climates, it may not be a problem.
                                >
                                > Dave
                                >
                                >
                                > ----- Original Message -----
                                > From: joshuasgoldstein
                                > To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                                > Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 5:24 PM
                                > Subject: [solectria_ev] Another AH Counter Box Short
                                >
                                >
                                > David Patterson and everyone:
                                > My AH meter died ('99 Force) and it turned out to be _exactly_ the
                                > problem described in the recent exchange between David Patterson and
                                > Stephen Taylor. As David noted, the AH meter seems to be a weak link
                                > that many of us will need to deal with.
                                > The symptoms were a blown 2A high-voltage fuse under the hood, an
                                > intact fuse on the AH box circuit board, a lot of scorching where pins
                                > 1 and 2 come into the board with high voltage, and a short circuit
                                > across those 2 pins.
                                > My question is where to get the board repaired. I can try
                                > Solectria (Azure Dynamics) and wait quite a while. Or maybe David
                                > wants to earn some money doing these for us as they fail one by one??
                                > Or should I do what Stephen did and try to find a local
                                > electronics-minded person? Any advice?
                                > And the second question is, do I need to find and repair the
                                > "filter" described in the earlier post? If so is there any more info
                                > available about how to get to it and remove it from the vehicle?
                                > Thanks!
                                > - Joshua Goldstein
                                >
                                > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "David Patterson"
                                > <DRPatterson@...> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > Stephen:
                                > > Long answer:
                                > > I have had some success in repairing the shorting problem at or near
                                > the connector on the circuit board. If the 100 ma fuse inside is good,
                                > chances are the board/circuit is OK and the filter resistor acted as a
                                > fuse when input shorted over at edge of circuit board. Look at that
                                > area for burned board traces, water trails, etc. I isolated and
                                > bypassed that area and ran wire from screw connector to inside board
                                > fuse holder after cleaning up burnt area. Coated with clear RTV to
                                > further isolate.
                                > >
                                > > You also have another 2 amp fuse for the AH meter under the hood, in
                                > added fuse box.
                                > >
                                > > I am not sure that the resistor was 1000 ohms but when short was
                                > repaired, resistor replaced, unit is working OK. Filter is not
                                > documented in any diagrams I have seen.
                                > >
                                > > Short answer:
                                > > You may be able to save the unit, It is worth giving it a look. I
                                > don't think BRUSA makes the meter anymore, other brands are available.
                                > See Xantrex Link 10 product for example.
                                > >
                                > > David Patterson
                                > > ----- Original Message -----
                                > > From: Stephen Taylor
                                > > To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                                > > Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 8:52 PM
                                > > Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] AH Counter
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > Thanks David. Looks like you are right. Apparently there was a
                                > short as there is a little blackened area inside. Is this something I
                                > could get fixed or is the unit toast? I'm also assuming there are no
                                > replacement parts available for this anymore.
                                > >
                                > > Stephen Taylor
                                > >
                                > > David Patterson <DRPatterson@...> wrote:
                                > > The "lump" is a filter added by Solectria on the DC to the AH
                                > meter primary feed. Mine was chared but I replaced with a 1000 ohm 1/4
                                > watt. The capacitor is 47 ufd . The resistor als acts as a fuse in
                                > this installation. There is a 100 ma (0.1) amp inside the AH
                                > controller box under the dash. If the resistor went, you may have a
                                > short. Open counter box and check circuit board under connecto;, very
                                > close foil pattern and have seen several short there as a result of
                                > moisture.
                                > >
                                > > Hope this helps.
                                > >
                                > > ----- Original Message -----
                                > > From: Stephen Taylor
                                > > To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                                > > Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 3:37 PM
                                > > Subject: [solectria_ev] AH Counter
                                > >
                                > > My AH counter died a while back and I am just now trying to
                                > trouble shoot it. So far I have determined that the pack voltage isn't
                                > getting to the AH counter box. The voltage, however, is present on the
                                > car side of the 4 pin Deutch connector. I disconnected the deutch and
                                > pulled the box out. I noted that there was a big lump between the
                                > connector and the box screw terminals so I cut that open and found
                                > that the Red Pack Positive Wire was broken. With my bad eyesight I
                                > thought I should just fix the break, but as I got to working I noted
                                > that whatever was broken looked more like some kind of resistor or
                                > something. It has a blue dot on the top and isn't more than an eighth
                                > of an inch long.
                                > >
                                > > Does anyone know what it is (including its value/stats) and where
                                > to get a replacement.
                                > >
                                > > Stephen Taylor
                                > >
                                > > __________________________________________________
                                > > Do You Yahoo!?
                                > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                > > http://mail.yahoo.com
                                > >
                                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                > >
                                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                > >
                                > > __________________________________________________
                                > > Do You Yahoo!?
                                > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                > > http://mail.yahoo.com
                                > >
                                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                > >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >




                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Rex Allison
                                Thank you for the summary. When I first bought my Force the AH meter fuse was blown and I replaced it and haven t had a problem for two years (and it came from
                                Message 15 of 17 , Jan 12, 2008
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                                  Thank you for the summary.

                                  When I first bought my Force the AH meter fuse was blown and I replaced it and haven't had a problem for two years (and it came from the East Coast to California) this has always been a mystery but moisture could have been the cause. The interesting thing is that we just had some torrential rains for the past week and now it is resetting to zero after each trip. I'm wondering if this is due to moisture and a precursor to the shorting problem.

                                  Rex


                                  ----- Original Message ----
                                  From: Joshua Goldstein <jg@...>
                                  To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 12:12:59 PM
                                  Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Another AH Counter Box Short

                                  All,
                                  I've successfully repaired my amp hour meter using David Patterson's
                                  excellent information. I thought I would post a summary since this
                                  seems to be a common problem.

                                  SYMPTOMS: A dead AH meter, a blown 2A high-voltage fuse under the hood,
                                  an intact fuse on the AH box circuit board, a lot of scorching where
                                  pins 1 and 2 come into the board with high voltage, and a short circuit
                                  across those 2 pins.
                                  As a reminder, the 2A fuse under the hood is on the passenger side,
                                  rear-ish with a set of 4 high-voltage fuses -- see my earlier post about
                                  getting the right fuse in the right place.

                                  CAUSE: Water condenses inside the AH controller box at the point where
                                  the red and black wires come in (1 and 2 connectors) carrying the
                                  battery voltage of 156V. It shorts and scorches everything around.
                                  This may be an East Coast problem owing to humidity.

                                  PARTS: You will need a new 2A, 250V fuse, a new 1000 ohm, 1/4 watt
                                  resistor (both available at Radio Shack), and your soldering stuff or a
                                  local electronics repair shop (as I used).

                                  PROCEDURE: The AH controller box is located behind the dash. Access it
                                  as described in the service manual (don't forget to unplug the car and
                                  disconnect the Anderson service connect near those fuses under the
                                  hood). Basically remove three screws, pull out the lower dash cover
                                  from the top left, pull out two plastic plugs and remove a piece of
                                  styrofoam, then remove four bolts and a metal plate. You'll see the
                                  black plastic controller box inside. Remove the smaller of the two
                                  connectors that are at opposite ends of the box, and then follow the
                                  larger one along past a lumpy thing to another connector and remove it
                                  there. When you have the box out you can disconnect this lumpy
                                  connector wire from the box; both will need repair.
                                  Inside the lumpy part of the wire, under insulating tape, you will
                                  find the remains of a small resistor, probably just the ends with the
                                  middle completely vaporized. Clean things up, replace it with the new
                                  resistor and wrap it back up.
                                  Remove four small bolts at the end of the controller box and gently
                                  pull the circuit board out along a track inside the box. Where pins 1
                                  and 2 come onto the board, clean up all the scorching. Now apply the
                                  Patterson Method: Isolate the area of the short from any incoming
                                  voltage and bypass that area by running wire from screw connector (for
                                  #1 pin) to inside-board fuse holder. Coat with clear RTV to further
                                  isolate and prevent a recurrence. Check that the fuse on the board is
                                  still good; if so the rest of the board should be fine. (The little
                                  vaporized resistor acted as a fuse before the fuse did.)
                                  Put everything back together, replace the blown 2A fuse under the
                                  hood, and add your name to the list of people who owe David Patterson a
                                  favor in our next life.
                                  Happy driving,
                                  Joshua Goldstein ('99 Force)

                                  David Patterson wrote:
                                  > Joshua:
                                  > Well your's is about the fifth one I have heard about or repaired myself. I would suggest you first try someone locally, it is not too difficult to isolate and rewire directly from the screw terminal on the back of the circuit board to the on board fuse holder. (Check this fuse also, 100ma, if you have not done so, it should be OK if only connector shorting problem). As noted, coat end of board with RTV or equivalent and fully isolate any remaining positive voltage back into the "chared" areas.
                                  >
                                  > The inline filter is easy to recognize. Follow the red (?) lead from the AH meter box, back into the conversion wiring. It may be cabled with tie wraps. It is about 1 inch or more in diameter, several inches long and wrapped with black electrical tape. My experience, It will have to be repaired also (~ 1000 ohm 1/4 watt resistor) but the "filter" can be unplugged and removed for repair with the control box.
                                  >
                                  > Again, I think part of the failure mechanism is moisture and cars that are or have been on the East coast, or other high humidity areas, may see this failure, dryer climates, it may not be a problem.
                                  >
                                  > Dave
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > ----- Original Message -----
                                  > From: joshuasgoldstein
                                  > To: solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com
                                  > Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 5:24 PM
                                  > Subject: [solectria_ev] Another AH Counter Box Short
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > David Patterson and everyone:
                                  > My AH meter died ('99 Force) and it turned out to be _exactly_ the
                                  > problem described in the recent exchange between David Patterson and
                                  > Stephen Taylor. As David noted, the AH meter seems to be a weak link
                                  > that many of us will need to deal with.
                                  > The symptoms were a blown 2A high-voltage fuse under the hood, an
                                  > intact fuse on the AH box circuit board, a lot of scorching where pins
                                  > 1 and 2 come into the board with high voltage, and a short circuit
                                  > across those 2 pins.
                                  > My question is where to get the board repaired. I can try
                                  > Solectria (Azure Dynamics) and wait quite a while. Or maybe David
                                  > wants to earn some money doing these for us as they fail one by one??
                                  > Or should I do what Stephen did and try to find a local
                                  > electronics- minded person? Any advice?
                                  > And the second question is, do I need to find and repair the
                                  > "filter" described in the earlier post? If so is there any more info
                                  > available about how to get to it and remove it from the vehicle?
                                  > Thanks!
                                  > - Joshua Goldstein
                                  >
                                  > --- In solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com, "David Patterson"
                                  > <DRPatterson@ ...> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > Stephen:
                                  > > Long answer:
                                  > > I have had some success in repairing the shorting problem at or near
                                  > the connector on the circuit board. If the 100 ma fuse inside is good,
                                  > chances are the board/circuit is OK and the filter resistor acted as a
                                  > fuse when input shorted over at edge of circuit board. Look at that
                                  > area for burned board traces, water trails, etc. I isolated and
                                  > bypassed that area and ran wire from screw connector to inside board
                                  > fuse holder after cleaning up burnt area. Coated with clear RTV to
                                  > further isolate.
                                  > >
                                  > > You also have another 2 amp fuse for the AH meter under the hood, in
                                  > added fuse box.
                                  > >
                                  > > I am not sure that the resistor was 1000 ohms but when short was
                                  > repaired, resistor replaced, unit is working OK. Filter is not
                                  > documented in any diagrams I have seen.
                                  > >
                                  > > Short answer:
                                  > > You may be able to save the unit, It is worth giving it a look. I
                                  > don't think BRUSA makes the meter anymore, other brands are available.
                                  > See Xantrex Link 10 product for example.
                                  > >
                                  > > David Patterson
                                  > > ----- Original Message -----
                                  > > From: Stephen Taylor
                                  > > To: solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com
                                  > > Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 8:52 PM
                                  > > Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] AH Counter
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > Thanks David. Looks like you are right. Apparently there was a
                                  > short as there is a little blackened area inside. Is this something I
                                  > could get fixed or is the unit toast? I'm also assuming there are no
                                  > replacement parts available for this anymore.
                                  > >
                                  > > Stephen Taylor
                                  > >
                                  > > David Patterson <DRPatterson@ ...> wrote:
                                  > > The "lump" is a filter added by Solectria on the DC to the AH
                                  > meter primary feed. Mine was chared but I replaced with a 1000 ohm 1/4
                                  > watt. The capacitor is 47 ufd . The resistor als acts as a fuse in
                                  > this installation. There is a 100 ma (0.1) amp inside the AH
                                  > controller box under the dash. If the resistor went, you may have a
                                  > short. Open counter box and check circuit board under connecto;, very
                                  > close foil pattern and have seen several short there as a result of
                                  > moisture.
                                  > >
                                  > > Hope this helps.
                                  > >
                                  > > ----- Original Message -----
                                  > > From: Stephen Taylor
                                  > > To: solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com
                                  > > Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 3:37 PM
                                  > > Subject: [solectria_ev] AH Counter
                                  > >
                                  > > My AH counter died a while back and I am just now trying to
                                  > trouble shoot it. So far I have determined that the pack voltage isn't
                                  > getting to the AH counter box. The voltage, however, is present on the
                                  > car side of the 4 pin Deutch connector. I disconnected the deutch and
                                  > pulled the box out. I noted that there was a big lump between the
                                  > connector and the box screw terminals so I cut that open and found
                                  > that the Red Pack Positive Wire was broken. With my bad eyesight I
                                  > thought I should just fix the break, but as I got to working I noted
                                  > that whatever was broken looked more like some kind of resistor or
                                  > something. It has a blue dot on the top and isn't more than an eighth
                                  > of an inch long.
                                  > >
                                  > > Does anyone know what it is (including its value/stats) and where
                                  > to get a replacement.
                                  > >
                                  > > Stephen Taylor
                                  > >
                                  > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                                  > > Do You Yahoo!?
                                  > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                  > > http://mail. yahoo.com
                                  > >
                                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  > >
                                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  > >
                                  > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                                  > > Do You Yahoo!?
                                  > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                  > > http://mail. yahoo.com
                                  > >
                                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >




                                  ____________________________________________________________________________________
                                  Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
                                  http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Doug Jackson
                                  I hate it when someone has a problem and suddenly others have similar problems. I think these cars are secretly communicating with each other. Yes, I to have
                                  Message 16 of 17 , Jan 13, 2008
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                                    I hate it when someone has a problem and suddenly others have similar
                                    problems. I think these cars are secretly communicating with each
                                    other.

                                    Yes, I to have started having an aH display problem on my '99 Force.
                                    For several weeks I have noticed a buzzing sound coming from that
                                    area under the dashboard whenever I go into regen. It didn't happen
                                    all the time and it varied in volume and intensity. I have been
                                    dealing with a regen/brake light relay problem and assumed it was
                                    from that since they are close together under the dashboard.

                                    A couple of days ago, the aH counter counter started resetting itself
                                    to zero. I first noticed it when I would come back to the car after
                                    parking it to go into a shop. Then I started noticing it when it
                                    went into regen mode. Then it started happening seemingly randomly.

                                    I'm still trying to decide how to approach the problem but my first
                                    inclination is to disconnect the aH counter from the fuse box. I
                                    don't want to take a chance of shorting something and then having a
                                    major repair issue. Then I will look for advice from the collective
                                    wisdom of this list.

                                    I also have two batteries which PakTrakr indicated as failing. I
                                    replaced them yesterday with a couple of used ones from another Force
                                    owner who just replaced his whole pack. I'm just trying to buy
                                    time. I don't think that the aH counter problem is related but I
                                    need a day or two to be sure.

                                    Doug Jackson
                                    adjackson3.org


                                    On Jan 12, 2008, at 5:57 PM, Rex Allison wrote:

                                    > Thank you for the summary.
                                    >
                                    > When I first bought my Force the AH meter fuse was blown and I
                                    > replaced it and haven't had a problem for two years (and it came
                                    > from the East Coast to California) this has always been a mystery
                                    > but moisture could have been the cause. The interesting thing is
                                    > that we just had some torrential rains for the past week and now it
                                    > is resetting to zero after each trip. I'm wondering if this is due
                                    > to moisture and a precursor to the shorting problem.
                                    >
                                    > Rex
                                    >
                                    > ----- Original Message ----
                                    > From: Joshua Goldstein <jg@...>
                                    > To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                                    > Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 12:12:59 PM
                                    > Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Another AH Counter Box Short
                                    >
                                    > All,
                                    > I've successfully repaired my amp hour meter using David Patterson's
                                    > excellent information. I thought I would post a summary since this
                                    > seems to be a common problem.
                                    >
                                    > SYMPTOMS: A dead AH meter, a blown 2A high-voltage fuse under the
                                    > hood,
                                    > an intact fuse on the AH box circuit board, a lot of scorching where
                                    > pins 1 and 2 come into the board with high voltage, and a short
                                    > circuit
                                    > across those 2 pins.
                                    > As a reminder, the 2A fuse under the hood is on the passenger side,
                                    > rear-ish with a set of 4 high-voltage fuses -- see my earlier post
                                    > about
                                    > getting the right fuse in the right place.
                                    >
                                    > CAUSE: Water condenses inside the AH controller box at the point where
                                    > the red and black wires come in (1 and 2 connectors) carrying the
                                    > battery voltage of 156V. It shorts and scorches everything around.
                                    > This may be an East Coast problem owing to humidity.
                                    >
                                    > PARTS: You will need a new 2A, 250V fuse, a new 1000 ohm, 1/4 watt
                                    > resistor (both available at Radio Shack), and your soldering stuff
                                    > or a
                                    > local electronics repair shop (as I used).
                                    >
                                    > PROCEDURE: The AH controller box is located behind the dash. Access it
                                    > as described in the service manual (don't forget to unplug the car and
                                    > disconnect the Anderson service connect near those fuses under the
                                    > hood). Basically remove three screws, pull out the lower dash cover
                                    > from the top left, pull out two plastic plugs and remove a piece of
                                    > styrofoam, then remove four bolts and a metal plate. You'll see the
                                    > black plastic controller box inside. Remove the smaller of the two
                                    > connectors that are at opposite ends of the box, and then follow the
                                    > larger one along past a lumpy thing to another connector and remove it
                                    > there. When you have the box out you can disconnect this lumpy
                                    > connector wire from the box; both will need repair.
                                    > Inside the lumpy part of the wire, under insulating tape, you will
                                    > find the remains of a small resistor, probably just the ends with the
                                    > middle completely vaporized. Clean things up, replace it with the new
                                    > resistor and wrap it back up.
                                    > Remove four small bolts at the end of the controller box and gently
                                    > pull the circuit board out along a track inside the box. Where pins 1
                                    > and 2 come onto the board, clean up all the scorching. Now apply the
                                    > Patterson Method: Isolate the area of the short from any incoming
                                    > voltage and bypass that area by running wire from screw connector (for
                                    > #1 pin) to inside-board fuse holder. Coat with clear RTV to further
                                    > isolate and prevent a recurrence. Check that the fuse on the board is
                                    > still good; if so the rest of the board should be fine. (The little
                                    > vaporized resistor acted as a fuse before the fuse did.)
                                    > Put everything back together, replace the blown 2A fuse under the
                                    > hood, and add your name to the list of people who owe David
                                    > Patterson a
                                    > favor in our next life.
                                    > Happy driving,
                                    > Joshua Goldstein ('99 Force)
                                    >
                                    > David Patterson wrote:
                                    > > Joshua:
                                    > > Well your's is about the fifth one I have heard about or repaired
                                    > myself. I would suggest you first try someone locally, it is not
                                    > too difficult to isolate and rewire directly from the screw
                                    > terminal on the back of the circuit board to the on board fuse
                                    > holder. (Check this fuse also, 100ma, if you have not done so, it
                                    > should be OK if only connector shorting problem). As noted, coat
                                    > end of board with RTV or equivalent and fully isolate any remaining
                                    > positive voltage back into the "chared" areas.
                                    > >
                                    > > The inline filter is easy to recognize. Follow the red (?) lead
                                    > from the AH meter box, back into the conversion wiring. It may be
                                    > cabled with tie wraps. It is about 1 inch or more in diameter,
                                    > several inches long and wrapped with black electrical tape. My
                                    > experience, It will have to be repaired also (~ 1000 ohm 1/4 watt
                                    > resistor) but the "filter" can be unplugged and removed for repair
                                    > with the control box.
                                    > >
                                    > > Again, I think part of the failure mechanism is moisture and cars
                                    > that are or have been on the East coast, or other high humidity
                                    > areas, may see this failure, dryer climates, it may not be a problem.
                                    > >
                                    > > Dave
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > ----- Original Message -----
                                    > > From: joshuasgoldstein
                                    > > To: solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com
                                    > > Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 5:24 PM
                                    > > Subject: [solectria_ev] Another AH Counter Box Short
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > David Patterson and everyone:
                                    > > My AH meter died ('99 Force) and it turned out to be _exactly_ the
                                    > > problem described in the recent exchange between David Patterson and
                                    > > Stephen Taylor. As David noted, the AH meter seems to be a weak link
                                    > > that many of us will need to deal with.
                                    > > The symptoms were a blown 2A high-voltage fuse under the hood, an
                                    > > intact fuse on the AH box circuit board, a lot of scorching where
                                    > pins
                                    > > 1 and 2 come into the board with high voltage, and a short circuit
                                    > > across those 2 pins.
                                    > > My question is where to get the board repaired. I can try
                                    > > Solectria (Azure Dynamics) and wait quite a while. Or maybe David
                                    > > wants to earn some money doing these for us as they fail one by
                                    > one??
                                    > > Or should I do what Stephen did and try to find a local
                                    > > electronics- minded person? Any advice?
                                    > > And the second question is, do I need to find and repair the
                                    > > "filter" described in the earlier post? If so is there any more info
                                    > > available about how to get to it and remove it from the vehicle?
                                    > > Thanks!
                                    > > - Joshua Goldstein
                                    > >
                                    > > --- In solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com, "David Patterson"
                                    > > <DRPatterson@ ...> wrote:
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Stephen:
                                    > > > Long answer:
                                    > > > I have had some success in repairing the shorting problem at or
                                    > near
                                    > > the connector on the circuit board. If the 100 ma fuse inside is
                                    > good,
                                    > > chances are the board/circuit is OK and the filter resistor acted
                                    > as a
                                    > > fuse when input shorted over at edge of circuit board. Look at that
                                    > > area for burned board traces, water trails, etc. I isolated and
                                    > > bypassed that area and ran wire from screw connector to inside board
                                    > > fuse holder after cleaning up burnt area. Coated with clear RTV to
                                    > > further isolate.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > You also have another 2 amp fuse for the AH meter under the
                                    > hood, in
                                    > > added fuse box.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > I am not sure that the resistor was 1000 ohms but when short was
                                    > > repaired, resistor replaced, unit is working OK. Filter is not
                                    > > documented in any diagrams I have seen.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Short answer:
                                    > > > You may be able to save the unit, It is worth giving it a look. I
                                    > > don't think BRUSA makes the meter anymore, other brands are
                                    > available.
                                    > > See Xantrex Link 10 product for example.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > David Patterson
                                    > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                    > > > From: Stephen Taylor
                                    > > > To: solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com
                                    > > > Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 8:52 PM
                                    > > > Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] AH Counter
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Thanks David. Looks like you are right. Apparently there was a
                                    > > short as there is a little blackened area inside. Is this
                                    > something I
                                    > > could get fixed or is the unit toast? I'm also assuming there are no
                                    > > replacement parts available for this anymore.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Stephen Taylor
                                    > > >
                                    > > > David Patterson <DRPatterson@ ...> wrote:
                                    > > > The "lump" is a filter added by Solectria on the DC to the AH
                                    > > meter primary feed. Mine was chared but I replaced with a 1000
                                    > ohm 1/4
                                    > > watt. The capacitor is 47 ufd . The resistor als acts as a fuse in
                                    > > this installation. There is a 100 ma (0.1) amp inside the AH
                                    > > controller box under the dash. If the resistor went, you may have a
                                    > > short. Open counter box and check circuit board under connecto;,
                                    > very
                                    > > close foil pattern and have seen several short there as a result of
                                    > > moisture.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Hope this helps.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                    > > > From: Stephen Taylor
                                    > > > To: solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com
                                    > > > Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 3:37 PM
                                    > > > Subject: [solectria_ev] AH Counter
                                    > > >
                                    > > > My AH counter died a while back and I am just now trying to
                                    > > trouble shoot it. So far I have determined that the pack voltage
                                    > isn't
                                    > > getting to the AH counter box. The voltage, however, is present
                                    > on the
                                    > > car side of the 4 pin Deutch connector. I disconnected the deutch
                                    > and
                                    > > pulled the box out. I noted that there was a big lump between the
                                    > > connector and the box screw terminals so I cut that open and found
                                    > > that the Red Pack Positive Wire was broken. With my bad eyesight I
                                    > > thought I should just fix the break, but as I got to working I noted
                                    > > that whatever was broken looked more like some kind of resistor or
                                    > > something. It has a blue dot on the top and isn't more than an
                                    > eighth
                                    > > of an inch long.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Does anyone know what it is (including its value/stats) and where
                                    > > to get a replacement.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Stephen Taylor
                                    > > >
                                    > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                                    > > > Do You Yahoo!?
                                    > > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                    > > > http://mail. yahoo.com
                                    > > >
                                    > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    > > >
                                    > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    > > >
                                    > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                                    > > > Do You Yahoo!?
                                    > > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                    > > > http://mail. yahoo.com
                                    > > >
                                    > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    > > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    >
                                    > __________________________________________________________
                                    > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
                                    > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
                                    >
                                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >



                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • David Patterson
                                    Doug: Would suggest you disconnect power to AH meter (remove 2 amp fuse) until you have time to investigate edge of AH board. When in regen and at end of
                                    Message 17 of 17 , Jan 13, 2008
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                                      Doug:
                                      Would suggest you disconnect power to AH meter (remove 2 amp fuse) until you have time to investigate edge of AH board. When in regen and at end of charge cycle, battery voltage is much greater than 156 volt nominal and when you regen the higher voltage may be starting to break down the circuit board and will eventually short at all voltages.


                                      David Patterson
                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                      From: Doug Jackson
                                      To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2008 2:43 PM
                                      Subject: [SPAM] Re: [solectria_ev] Another AH Counter Box Short


                                      I hate it when someone has a problem and suddenly others have similar
                                      problems. I think these cars are secretly communicating with each
                                      other.

                                      Yes, I to have started having an aH display problem on my '99 Force.
                                      For several weeks I have noticed a buzzing sound coming from that
                                      area under the dashboard whenever I go into regen. It didn't happen
                                      all the time and it varied in volume and intensity. I have been
                                      dealing with a regen/brake light relay problem and assumed it was
                                      from that since they are close together under the dashboard.

                                      A couple of days ago, the aH counter counter started resetting itself
                                      to zero. I first noticed it when I would come back to the car after
                                      parking it to go into a shop. Then I started noticing it when it
                                      went into regen mode. Then it started happening seemingly randomly.

                                      I'm still trying to decide how to approach the problem but my first
                                      inclination is to disconnect the aH counter from the fuse box. I
                                      don't want to take a chance of shorting something and then having a
                                      major repair issue. Then I will look for advice from the collective
                                      wisdom of this list.

                                      I also have two batteries which PakTrakr indicated as failing. I
                                      replaced them yesterday with a couple of used ones from another Force
                                      owner who just replaced his whole pack. I'm just trying to buy
                                      time. I don't think that the aH counter problem is related but I
                                      need a day or two to be sure.

                                      Doug Jackson
                                      adjackson3.org

                                      On Jan 12, 2008, at 5:57 PM, Rex Allison wrote:

                                      > Thank you for the summary.
                                      >
                                      > When I first bought my Force the AH meter fuse was blown and I
                                      > replaced it and haven't had a problem for two years (and it came
                                      > from the East Coast to California) this has always been a mystery
                                      > but moisture could have been the cause. The interesting thing is
                                      > that we just had some torrential rains for the past week and now it
                                      > is resetting to zero after each trip. I'm wondering if this is due
                                      > to moisture and a precursor to the shorting problem.
                                      >
                                      > Rex
                                      >
                                      > ----- Original Message ----
                                      > From: Joshua Goldstein <jg@...>
                                      > To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                                      > Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 12:12:59 PM
                                      > Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Another AH Counter Box Short
                                      >
                                      > All,
                                      > I've successfully repaired my amp hour meter using David Patterson's
                                      > excellent information. I thought I would post a summary since this
                                      > seems to be a common problem.
                                      >
                                      > SYMPTOMS: A dead AH meter, a blown 2A high-voltage fuse under the
                                      > hood,
                                      > an intact fuse on the AH box circuit board, a lot of scorching where
                                      > pins 1 and 2 come into the board with high voltage, and a short
                                      > circuit
                                      > across those 2 pins.
                                      > As a reminder, the 2A fuse under the hood is on the passenger side,
                                      > rear-ish with a set of 4 high-voltage fuses -- see my earlier post
                                      > about
                                      > getting the right fuse in the right place.
                                      >
                                      > CAUSE: Water condenses inside the AH controller box at the point where
                                      > the red and black wires come in (1 and 2 connectors) carrying the
                                      > battery voltage of 156V. It shorts and scorches everything around.
                                      > This may be an East Coast problem owing to humidity.
                                      >
                                      > PARTS: You will need a new 2A, 250V fuse, a new 1000 ohm, 1/4 watt
                                      > resistor (both available at Radio Shack), and your soldering stuff
                                      > or a
                                      > local electronics repair shop (as I used).
                                      >
                                      > PROCEDURE: The AH controller box is located behind the dash. Access it
                                      > as described in the service manual (don't forget to unplug the car and
                                      > disconnect the Anderson service connect near those fuses under the
                                      > hood). Basically remove three screws, pull out the lower dash cover
                                      > from the top left, pull out two plastic plugs and remove a piece of
                                      > styrofoam, then remove four bolts and a metal plate. You'll see the
                                      > black plastic controller box inside. Remove the smaller of the two
                                      > connectors that are at opposite ends of the box, and then follow the
                                      > larger one along past a lumpy thing to another connector and remove it
                                      > there. When you have the box out you can disconnect this lumpy
                                      > connector wire from the box; both will need repair.
                                      > Inside the lumpy part of the wire, under insulating tape, you will
                                      > find the remains of a small resistor, probably just the ends with the
                                      > middle completely vaporized. Clean things up, replace it with the new
                                      > resistor and wrap it back up.
                                      > Remove four small bolts at the end of the controller box and gently
                                      > pull the circuit board out along a track inside the box. Where pins 1
                                      > and 2 come onto the board, clean up all the scorching. Now apply the
                                      > Patterson Method: Isolate the area of the short from any incoming
                                      > voltage and bypass that area by running wire from screw connector (for
                                      > #1 pin) to inside-board fuse holder. Coat with clear RTV to further
                                      > isolate and prevent a recurrence. Check that the fuse on the board is
                                      > still good; if so the rest of the board should be fine. (The little
                                      > vaporized resistor acted as a fuse before the fuse did.)
                                      > Put everything back together, replace the blown 2A fuse under the
                                      > hood, and add your name to the list of people who owe David
                                      > Patterson a
                                      > favor in our next life.
                                      > Happy driving,
                                      > Joshua Goldstein ('99 Force)
                                      >
                                      > David Patterson wrote:
                                      > > Joshua:
                                      > > Well your's is about the fifth one I have heard about or repaired
                                      > myself. I would suggest you first try someone locally, it is not
                                      > too difficult to isolate and rewire directly from the screw
                                      > terminal on the back of the circuit board to the on board fuse
                                      > holder. (Check this fuse also, 100ma, if you have not done so, it
                                      > should be OK if only connector shorting problem). As noted, coat
                                      > end of board with RTV or equivalent and fully isolate any remaining
                                      > positive voltage back into the "chared" areas.
                                      > >
                                      > > The inline filter is easy to recognize. Follow the red (?) lead
                                      > from the AH meter box, back into the conversion wiring. It may be
                                      > cabled with tie wraps. It is about 1 inch or more in diameter,
                                      > several inches long and wrapped with black electrical tape. My
                                      > experience, It will have to be repaired also (~ 1000 ohm 1/4 watt
                                      > resistor) but the "filter" can be unplugged and removed for repair
                                      > with the control box.
                                      > >
                                      > > Again, I think part of the failure mechanism is moisture and cars
                                      > that are or have been on the East coast, or other high humidity
                                      > areas, may see this failure, dryer climates, it may not be a problem.
                                      > >
                                      > > Dave
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > ----- Original Message -----
                                      > > From: joshuasgoldstein
                                      > > To: solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com
                                      > > Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 5:24 PM
                                      > > Subject: [solectria_ev] Another AH Counter Box Short
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > David Patterson and everyone:
                                      > > My AH meter died ('99 Force) and it turned out to be _exactly_ the
                                      > > problem described in the recent exchange between David Patterson and
                                      > > Stephen Taylor. As David noted, the AH meter seems to be a weak link
                                      > > that many of us will need to deal with.
                                      > > The symptoms were a blown 2A high-voltage fuse under the hood, an
                                      > > intact fuse on the AH box circuit board, a lot of scorching where
                                      > pins
                                      > > 1 and 2 come into the board with high voltage, and a short circuit
                                      > > across those 2 pins.
                                      > > My question is where to get the board repaired. I can try
                                      > > Solectria (Azure Dynamics) and wait quite a while. Or maybe David
                                      > > wants to earn some money doing these for us as they fail one by
                                      > one??
                                      > > Or should I do what Stephen did and try to find a local
                                      > > electronics- minded person? Any advice?
                                      > > And the second question is, do I need to find and repair the
                                      > > "filter" described in the earlier post? If so is there any more info
                                      > > available about how to get to it and remove it from the vehicle?
                                      > > Thanks!
                                      > > - Joshua Goldstein
                                      > >
                                      > > --- In solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com, "David Patterson"
                                      > > <DRPatterson@ ...> wrote:
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Stephen:
                                      > > > Long answer:
                                      > > > I have had some success in repairing the shorting problem at or
                                      > near
                                      > > the connector on the circuit board. If the 100 ma fuse inside is
                                      > good,
                                      > > chances are the board/circuit is OK and the filter resistor acted
                                      > as a
                                      > > fuse when input shorted over at edge of circuit board. Look at that
                                      > > area for burned board traces, water trails, etc. I isolated and
                                      > > bypassed that area and ran wire from screw connector to inside board
                                      > > fuse holder after cleaning up burnt area. Coated with clear RTV to
                                      > > further isolate.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > You also have another 2 amp fuse for the AH meter under the
                                      > hood, in
                                      > > added fuse box.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > I am not sure that the resistor was 1000 ohms but when short was
                                      > > repaired, resistor replaced, unit is working OK. Filter is not
                                      > > documented in any diagrams I have seen.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Short answer:
                                      > > > You may be able to save the unit, It is worth giving it a look. I
                                      > > don't think BRUSA makes the meter anymore, other brands are
                                      > available.
                                      > > See Xantrex Link 10 product for example.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > David Patterson
                                      > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                      > > > From: Stephen Taylor
                                      > > > To: solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com
                                      > > > Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 8:52 PM
                                      > > > Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] AH Counter
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Thanks David. Looks like you are right. Apparently there was a
                                      > > short as there is a little blackened area inside. Is this
                                      > something I
                                      > > could get fixed or is the unit toast? I'm also assuming there are no
                                      > > replacement parts available for this anymore.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Stephen Taylor
                                      > > >
                                      > > > David Patterson <DRPatterson@ ...> wrote:
                                      > > > The "lump" is a filter added by Solectria on the DC to the AH
                                      > > meter primary feed. Mine was chared but I replaced with a 1000
                                      > ohm 1/4
                                      > > watt. The capacitor is 47 ufd . The resistor als acts as a fuse in
                                      > > this installation. There is a 100 ma (0.1) amp inside the AH
                                      > > controller box under the dash. If the resistor went, you may have a
                                      > > short. Open counter box and check circuit board under connecto;,
                                      > very
                                      > > close foil pattern and have seen several short there as a result of
                                      > > moisture.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Hope this helps.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                      > > > From: Stephen Taylor
                                      > > > To: solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com
                                      > > > Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 3:37 PM
                                      > > > Subject: [solectria_ev] AH Counter
                                      > > >
                                      > > > My AH counter died a while back and I am just now trying to
                                      > > trouble shoot it. So far I have determined that the pack voltage
                                      > isn't
                                      > > getting to the AH counter box. The voltage, however, is present
                                      > on the
                                      > > car side of the 4 pin Deutch connector. I disconnected the deutch
                                      > and
                                      > > pulled the box out. I noted that there was a big lump between the
                                      > > connector and the box screw terminals so I cut that open and found
                                      > > that the Red Pack Positive Wire was broken. With my bad eyesight I
                                      > > thought I should just fix the break, but as I got to working I noted
                                      > > that whatever was broken looked more like some kind of resistor or
                                      > > something. It has a blue dot on the top and isn't more than an
                                      > eighth
                                      > > of an inch long.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Does anyone know what it is (including its value/stats) and where
                                      > > to get a replacement.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Stephen Taylor
                                      > > >
                                      > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                                      > > > Do You Yahoo!?
                                      > > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                      > > > http://mail. yahoo.com
                                      > > >
                                      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      > > >
                                      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      > > >
                                      > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                                      > > > Do You Yahoo!?
                                      > > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                      > > > http://mail. yahoo.com
                                      > > >
                                      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      > > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > __________________________________________________________
                                      > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
                                      > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
                                      >
                                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >

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