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Re: [solectria_ev] Re: $/Mile

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  • Joshua Goldstein
    Interesting discussion about costs and their importance. My feeling with the EV is the same as with the PV on our roof -- over the long term the costs are
    Message 1 of 8 , Jul 31, 2007
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      Interesting discussion about costs and their importance. My feeling
      with the EV is the same as with the PV on our roof -- over the long term
      the costs are _roughly_ equivalent to conventional, and that's good
      enough reason to switch given all the other non-economic reasons.
      Joshua

      ldr214 wrote:
      > Gary,
      > Sounds reasonable.
      >
      > I think your logic and numbers are correct. It is worth noting that
      > the Geo was among the most efficient vehicles offered for sale in the
      > US in the last 15+ yrs. It was never much of a seller with the general
      > public who just weren't interested in low cost spartan transportation.
      >
      > Right now looking pretty hard the best price I find on 13 grp 27 gels
      > is around $2050 delivered in CA. My 97 pack is at almost 23000 miles
      > and I think 30,000 would be a high estimate on mileage unless someone
      > did a lot of short drives over a shorter number of years. Say 15 to
      > work charge 15 home every day. Which is a reasonable scenario for the
      > car.
      >
      > My KW cost is 0.0 as I have excess in my PGE electric account. I could
      > also charge free in town if I didn't have the PV net metering excess.
      >
      > So stretching things my per mile cost is at whatever these batteries
      > end up running. (plus the tires insurance and registration etc.) I'm
      > going to make a leap here and say I could likely sell the car and get
      > my cost for it and any new Pb batteries back so once again I'm just
      > back to transportation in a ZEV with zero fuel cost. In my case it
      > also saves wear and tear on my ICE vehicles which don't get anywhere
      > close to 40 mpg. They are more like $0.19 per mile using your fuel costs.
      >
      > At any rate transportation isn't without some cost. A bicycle being
      > your most efficient when it works.
      >
      > Mike
      >
      >
      > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "Gerard (Gary) Carlson "
      > <gjc0@...> wrote:
      >
      >> Folks:
      >>
      >> I have done similar measurements on my EV.
      >> My numbers are as follows, from outlet to asphalt:
      >>
      >> 4 miles / KWH
      >> 6 cents / KWH
      >> =>? 1.5 cents / mile
      >>
      >> Unfortunately, the batteries (MK 80 Amp-hour gels)
      >> wear out.? When you add this cost in, you get:
      >>
      >> 30,000 miles per pack (estimate)
      >> $1,500 per pack (optimistic estimate)
      >> => 5.0 cents per mile
      >>
      >> The total comes to 6.5 cents per mile.
      >>
      >> If you have an electricity cost of 16 cents per KWH and
      >> a battery cost of $2,000 per 25,000 miles the cost
      >> becomes:
      >>
      >> 4 cents per mile (electricity)
      >> 8 cents per mile (battery)
      >> => 12 cents per mile total.
      >>
      >> A Geo Metro (my donor vehicle) gets:
      >> $3.20 per gallon / 40 miles/gallon
      >> => 8 cents per mile.
      >>
      >> It appears that depending upon battery life and electric costs,
      >> our EVS are better or worse than the cost of an ICE machine.
      >> Even if you add another 1 cent per mile for ICE oil and filters,
      >> the cost is iffy.? Note that battery wear-out is the biggest cost.
      >>
      >>
      >> Your thoughts welcome,
      >>
      >> Gary Carlson
      >> 1992 Solectria Force
      >> ID License:? AMPEATR
      >>
      >> -----Original Message-----
      >> From: Bill Swann <dbswann4@...>
      >> To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
      >> Sent: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 8:08 pm
      >> Subject: [solectria_ev] $/Mile
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >> I installed a watt-hour meter to measure the kW-h going into a Zivan
      >> charger. Preliminary results indicate $0.033 / mile based on a $0.15 /
      >> kWatt-Hour cost to the light company and my driving habbits. It beats
      >> the heck out of $0.20 /mile, in fact .2 / .033 = 6 times bettah.
      >> Dont you love it!
      >>
      >>
    • Noel Adams
      When I plug in the numbers for service on my Prius over 30000 miles, and the Prius service costs are actually quite cheap, I get a cost of around 3.4c per
      Message 2 of 8 , Aug 3, 2007
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        When I plug in the numbers for service on my Prius over 30000 miles, and the
        Prius service costs are actually quite cheap, I get a cost of around 3.4c
        per mile not 1 c per mile. That puts me up to 11.4 c per mile for the ICE
        and service costs usually go up as mileage increases.

        Noel


        >From: "Gerard (Gary) Carlson " <gjc0@...>
        >Reply-To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
        >To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
        >Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] $/Mile
        >Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 14:06:08 -0400
        >
        >Folks:
        >
        >I have done similar measurements on my EV.
        >My numbers are as follows, from outlet to asphalt:
        >
        >4 miles / KWH
        >6 cents / KWH
        >=>? 1.5 cents / mile
        >
        >Unfortunately, the batteries (MK 80 Amp-hour gels)
        >wear out.? When you add this cost in, you get:
        >
        >30,000 miles per pack (estimate)
        >$1,500 per pack (optimistic estimate)
        >=> 5.0 cents per mile
        >
        >The total comes to 6.5 cents per mile.
        >
        >If you have an electricity cost of 16 cents per KWH and
        >a battery cost of $2,000 per 25,000 miles the cost
        >becomes:
        >
        >4 cents per mile (electricity)
        >8 cents per mile (battery)
        >=> 12 cents per mile total.
        >
        >A Geo Metro (my donor vehicle) gets:
        >$3.20 per gallon / 40 miles/gallon
        >=> 8 cents per mile.
        >
        >It appears that depending upon battery life and electric costs,
        >our EVS are better or worse than the cost of an ICE machine.
        >Even if you add another 1 cent per mile for ICE oil and filters,
        >the cost is iffy.? Note that battery wear-out is the biggest cost.
        >
        >
        >Your thoughts welcome,
        >
        >Gary Carlson
        >1992 Solectria Force
        >ID License:? AMPEATR
        >
        >-----Original Message-----
        >From: Bill Swann <dbswann4@...>
        >To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
        >Sent: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 8:08 pm
        >Subject: [solectria_ev] $/Mile
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >I installed a watt-hour meter to measure the kW-h going into a Zivan
        >charger. Preliminary results indicate $0.033 / mile based on a $0.15 /
        >kWatt-Hour cost to the light company and my driving habbits. It beats
        >the heck out of $0.20 /mile, in fact .2 / .033 = 6 times bettah.
        >Dont you love it!
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >________________________________________________________________________
        >AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
        >from AOL at AOL.com.
        >
        >
        >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >

        _________________________________________________________________
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      • ldr214
        Service costs on some vehicles can be almost considered criminal. $500 isn t at all unusual for a friendly visit for almost no work. I think the item getting
        Message 3 of 8 , Aug 3, 2007
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          Service costs on some vehicles can be almost considered criminal. $500
          isn't at all unusual for a friendly visit for almost no work. I think
          the item getting "serviced" is mostly the car owner.

          For those wanting to really skew the numbers in favor of a ICE metro
          check out.......http://metrompg.com/
          A light foot can make a difference.

          Actually if you practice some of the techniques the hypermilers use
          you can get lower KW per mile numbers. Which equate to more range if
          you like.

          I have thought about enclosing the underside of the Force but feel
          like the aero stuff doesn't get to be a real big player until above 40.

          Anyone done anything to the front intake or bottom?

          Mike

          --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "Noel Adams" <evfinder@...> wrote:
          >
          > When I plug in the numbers for service on my Prius over 30000 miles,
          and the
          > Prius service costs are actually quite cheap, I get a cost of
          around 3.4c
          > per mile not 1 c per mile. That puts me up to 11.4 c per mile for
          the ICE
          > and service costs usually go up as mileage increases.
          >
          > Noel
          >
          >
          > >From: "Gerard (Gary) Carlson " <gjc0@...>
          > >Reply-To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
          > >To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
          > >Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] $/Mile
          > >Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 14:06:08 -0400
          > >
          > >Folks:
          > >
          > >I have done similar measurements on my EV.
          > >My numbers are as follows, from outlet to asphalt:
          > >
          > >4 miles / KWH
          > >6 cents / KWH
          > >=>? 1.5 cents / mile
          > >
          > >Unfortunately, the batteries (MK 80 Amp-hour gels)
          > >wear out.? When you add this cost in, you get:
          > >
          > >30,000 miles per pack (estimate)
          > >$1,500 per pack (optimistic estimate)
          > >=> 5.0 cents per mile
          > >
          > >The total comes to 6.5 cents per mile.
          > >
          > >If you have an electricity cost of 16 cents per KWH and
          > >a battery cost of $2,000 per 25,000 miles the cost
          > >becomes:
          > >
          > >4 cents per mile (electricity)
          > >8 cents per mile (battery)
          > >=> 12 cents per mile total.
          > >
          > >A Geo Metro (my donor vehicle) gets:
          > >$3.20 per gallon / 40 miles/gallon
          > >=> 8 cents per mile.
          > >
          > >It appears that depending upon battery life and electric costs,
          > >our EVS are better or worse than the cost of an ICE machine.
          > >Even if you add another 1 cent per mile for ICE oil and filters,
          > >the cost is iffy.? Note that battery wear-out is the biggest cost.
          > >
          > >
          > >Your thoughts welcome,
          > >
          > >Gary Carlson
          > >1992 Solectria Force
          > >ID License:? AMPEATR
          > >
          > >-----Original Message-----
          > >From: Bill Swann <dbswann4@...>
          > >To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
          > >Sent: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 8:08 pm
          > >Subject: [solectria_ev] $/Mile
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >I installed a watt-hour meter to measure the kW-h going into a Zivan
          > >charger. Preliminary results indicate $0.033 / mile based on a $0.15 /
          > >kWatt-Hour cost to the light company and my driving habbits. It beats
          > >the heck out of $0.20 /mile, in fact .2 / .033 = 6 times bettah.
          > >Dont you love it!
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          >________________________________________________________________________
          > >AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's
          free
          > >from AOL at AOL.com.
          > >
          > >
          > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          >
          > _________________________________________________________________
          > More photos, more messages, more storage—get 2GB with Windows Live
          Hotmail.
          >
          http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_2G_0507
          >
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