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Power storage device.

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  • laminar1314
    Have you folks been following the news of a new hypercapacitor being developed by EEStor, Inc. in Texas? Specifications: 1 cubic foot, 300 pounds, 52kWh,
    Message 1 of 12 , Oct 16, 2006
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      Have you folks been following the news of a new hypercapacitor being developed by EEStor,
      Inc. in Texas?

      Specifications: 1 cubic foot, 300 pounds, 52kWh, 3500volts, 1000000 charge cycles without
      degradation, 4 to 6 minute charge time, 0.1% per day autodischarge rate, $2500-3500, all
      ceramic non-toxic materials with nickle conductors.

      Major venture capital backing. Patents pending. Production due in 2007.

      This could be fun.

      Ken Martin
    • theoldcars@aol.com
      52 KW in 4 to 6 minutes that is one big plug with what three phase? Don In a message dated 10/16/2006 9:52:36 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 2kwm@comcast.net
      Message 2 of 12 , Oct 16, 2006
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        52 KW in 4 to 6 minutes that is one big plug with what three phase?

        Don

        In a message dated 10/16/2006 9:52:36 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
        2kwm@... writes:




        Have you folks been following the news of a new hypercapacitor being
        developed by EEStor,
        Inc. in Texas?

        Specifications: 1 cubic foot, 300 pounds, 52kWh, 3500volts, 1000000 charge
        cycles without
        degradation, 4 to 6 minute charge time, 0.1% per day autodischarge rate,
        $2500-3500, all
        ceramic non-toxic materials with nickle conductors.

        Major venture capital backing. Patents pending. Production due in 2007.

        This could be fun.

        Ken Martin








        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Nick Austin
        ... Another EEStor pack of course! Or simply 110v, whatever is available. :) PS. I think you might be missing some punctuation in that statement, but I m not
        Message 3 of 12 , Oct 16, 2006
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          On Tue, Oct 17, 2006 at 01:18:35AM -0400, theoldcars@... wrote:
          >
          > 52 KW in 4 to 6 minutes That is one big plug with what three phase

          Another EEStor pack of course!

          Or simply 110v, whatever is available. :)

          PS. I think you might be missing some punctuation in that statement, but I'm
          not sure where.
        • umarc
          ... 52 kWh in 5 minutes is 624 kilowatts. That s 2,836 amperes at 220 volts: not something to try at home. One could always charge it over several hours,
          Message 4 of 12 , Oct 17, 2006
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            On Tue, 17 Oct 2006, laminar1314 wrote:

            > Specifications: 1 cubic foot, 300 pounds, 52kWh, 3500volts, 1000000
            > charge cycles without degradation, 4 to 6 minute charge time, 0.1% per
            > day autodischarge rate, $2500-3500, all ceramic non-toxic materials with
            > nickle conductors.

            52 kWh in 5 minutes is 624 kilowatts. That's 2,836 amperes at 220 volts:
            not something to try at home.

            One could always charge it over several hours, though.



            Rob Landry
            umarc@...
          • Brett Kelien
            Ken, where is this link and how are you following it? Thnaks,Brett ... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo!
            Message 5 of 12 , Oct 17, 2006
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              Ken, where is this link and how are you following it?
              Thnaks,Brett

              --- laminar1314 <2kwm@...> wrote:

              > Have you folks been following the news of a new
              > hypercapacitor being developed by EEStor,
              > Inc. in Texas?
              >
              > Specifications: 1 cubic foot, 300 pounds, 52kWh,
              > 3500volts, 1000000 charge cycles without
              > degradation, 4 to 6 minute charge time, 0.1% per day
              > autodischarge rate, $2500-3500, all
              > ceramic non-toxic materials with nickle conductors.
              >
              > Major venture capital backing. Patents pending.
              > Production due in 2007.
              >
              > This could be fun.
              >
              > Ken Martin
              >
              >
              >


              __________________________________________________
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            • Nick Austin
              ... At 3500 volts you only need 178 amps. (3500v == Nominal voltage of EEStor caps.) Dump charging is clearly the solution to sourcing ~630Kw. Most of the
              Message 6 of 12 , Oct 17, 2006
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                On Tue, Oct 17, 2006 at 07:40:08AM -0400, umarc wrote:
                > On Tue, 17 Oct 2006, laminar1314 wrote:
                >
                > > Specifications: 1 cubic foot, 300 pounds, 52kWh, 3500volts, 1000000
                > > charge cycles without degradation, 4 to 6 minute charge time, 0.1% per
                > > day autodischarge rate, $2500-3500, all ceramic non-toxic materials with
                > > nickle conductors.
                >
                > 52 kWh in 5 minutes is 624 kilowatts. That's 2,836 amperes at 220 volts:
                > not something to try at home.

                At 3500 volts you only need 178 amps.

                (3500v == Nominal voltage of EEStor caps.)
                Dump charging is clearly the solution to sourcing ~630Kw.

                Most of the time, you would be fine with an overnight charge anyways.
              • Randy Saxton
                I was curious about this device and did some searching. I found two leads: http://www.maxwell.com/ultracapacitors/index.asp
                Message 7 of 12 , Oct 18, 2006
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                  I was curious about this device and did some searching. I found two leads:

                  http://www.maxwell.com/ultracapacitors/index.asp

                  http://www.google.com/url?sa=U&start=1&q=http://alteng.blogspot.com/2005/08/home-energy-station-hes.html&e=9797&sig=__PS3O4mTDfgnuWJviolsZYu9mEB4=
                  (See the last comment.)

                  And a general neat ultracapacitor for EV link:

                  http://www.nrel.gov/vehiclesandfuels/energystorage/ultracapacitors.html

                  Randy


                  Nick Austin wrote:

                  >On Tue, Oct 17, 2006 at 07:40:08AM -0400, umarc wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  >>On Tue, 17 Oct 2006, laminar1314 wrote:
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>>Specifications: 1 cubic foot, 300 pounds, 52kWh, 3500volts, 1000000
                  >>>charge cycles without degradation, 4 to 6 minute charge time, 0.1% per
                  >>>day autodischarge rate, $2500-3500, all ceramic non-toxic materials with
                  >>>nickle conductors.
                  >>>
                  >>>
                  >>52 kWh in 5 minutes is 624 kilowatts. That's 2,836 amperes at 220 volts:
                  >>not something to try at home.
                  >>
                  >>
                  >
                  >At 3500 volts you only need 178 amps.
                  >
                  >(3500v == Nominal voltage of EEStor caps.)
                  >Dump charging is clearly the solution to sourcing ~630Kw.
                  >
                  >Most of the time, you would be fine with an overnight charge anyways.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Randy Saxton
                  I just got off the phone with Scott Thompson of Maxwell Technologies (first link below). They make many varieties of ultracapacitors. To put all this to rest,
                  Message 8 of 12 , Oct 18, 2006
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                    I just got off the phone with Scott Thompson of Maxwell Technologies
                    (first link below). They make many varieties of ultracapacitors.

                    To put all this to rest, he said that ultracapacitors only hold 1/10
                    (one-tenth) of the energy of lead-acid batteries (I'm guessing per
                    similar volume). Their usefulness comes in the fact that they can
                    provide their energy at 10 times the rate of a lead-acid battery.

                    I hope this helps.

                    Randy
                    1996 Solectria E10


                    Randy Saxton wrote:

                    >I was curious about this device and did some searching. I found two leads:
                    >
                    >http://www.maxwell.com/ultracapacitors/index.asp
                    >
                    >http://www.google.com/url?sa=U&start=1&q=http://alteng.blogspot.com/2005/08/home-energy-station-hes.html&e=9797&sig=__PS3O4mTDfgnuWJviolsZYu9mEB4=
                    >(See the last comment.)
                    >
                    >And a general neat ultracapacitor for EV link:
                    >
                    >http://www.nrel.gov/vehiclesandfuels/energystorage/ultracapacitors.html
                    >
                    >Randy
                    >
                    >
                    >Nick Austin wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >>On Tue, Oct 17, 2006 at 07:40:08AM -0400, umarc wrote:
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>>On Tue, 17 Oct 2006, laminar1314 wrote:
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>>>Specifications: 1 cubic foot, 300 pounds, 52kWh, 3500volts, 1000000
                    >>>>charge cycles without degradation, 4 to 6 minute charge time, 0.1% per
                    >>>>day autodischarge rate, $2500-3500, all ceramic non-toxic materials with
                    >>>>nickle conductors.
                    >>>>
                    >>>>
                    >>>>
                    >>>>
                    >>>52 kWh in 5 minutes is 624 kilowatts. That's 2,836 amperes at 220 volts:
                    >>>not something to try at home.
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>At 3500 volts you only need 178 amps.
                    >>
                    >>(3500v == Nominal voltage of EEStor caps.)
                    >>Dump charging is clearly the solution to sourcing ~630Kw.
                    >>
                    >>Most of the time, you would be fine with an overnight charge anyways.
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >
                    >
                    >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • gjc0@aol.com
                    Greetings all: For future reference here is a little physics review: The energy stored in a capacitor is 1/2 C * (V^2) or one half Capacitance times voltage
                    Message 9 of 12 , Oct 18, 2006
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                      Greetings all:

                      For future reference here is a little physics review:

                      The energy stored in a capacitor is 1/2 C * (V^2) or one half Capacitance times voltage squared.
                      Voltage is measured in volts and capacitance is measured in farads in honor of Michael Faraday.

                      Take a 10 farad capacitor charged to 150 volts.
                      we get 0.5 * 10 * (150 * 150) = 112,500 joules (a joule is 1 watt time one second).
                      That sounds like a lot.

                      Take a 80 amp hour gel cell at 12.5 volts.
                      amps times volts = watts. We get 1,000 watt-hours. An hour is 3,600 seconds.
                      So the battery holds 3,600 * 1,000 = 3,600,000 watt-seconds or 3.6 megajoules.
                      This is 36 times the energy of the capacitor.

                      To make matters worse, the 1/2 C*V^2 formula assumes that you discharge the capacitor to zero volts.
                      We EVers know that the cars get sluggish long before the batteries get to zero volts.

                      If we were to assume that we charge our 10 farad cap to 150 volts and then discharge it to 120 volts, we get:
                      0.5 * 10 * (150 * 150) - 0.5 * 10 * (120 * 120) = 5 * (150*150 - 120*120) = 35,620 joules.
                      This figure is about 1/100 of the battery energy. And the battery does not need to discharge to zero volts to get the energy out of it.

                      Hope you find this useful,
                      Gary Carlson
                      1992 Solectria Force @ 28,000 miles
                      ________________________________________________________________________
                      Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more.


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Randy Saxton
                      Fellow Solectria owners, Sorry for all the announcements of newly uploaded files, but I just uploaded my entire Solectria E-10 library. I was given these when
                      Message 10 of 12 , Oct 18, 2006
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                        Fellow Solectria owners,

                        Sorry for all the announcements of newly uploaded files, but I just
                        uploaded my entire Solectria E-10 library. I was given these when I
                        bought my 1996 E-10. This includes manuals for the E-10's as well as
                        many of the other parts, etc.

                        I also have a few other manuals in print only. If you need something
                        you don't see here, just ask.

                        I hope this is useful.

                        Randy
                      • Kenneth Martin
                        I Googled hypercapacitor and EEStor and got several links and ... The idea is to have a whole bank of these at a filling station. You pull up and dump from
                        Message 11 of 12 , Oct 18, 2006
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                          I Googled hypercapacitor and EEStor and got several links and
                          discussion threads in the energy industry. Here's the patent:
                          ----------



                          The idea is to have a whole bank of these at a filling station. You
                          pull up and dump from their cap to yours in minutes at several
                          thousand volts. The filling station does the slow continuous charge
                          thing to keep itself supplied.

                          Ken Martin

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Noel Adams
                          If I remember correctly Solectria fitted out a Force with Supercaps. The way they implemented them they were used to capture energy from regen, which they do
                          Message 12 of 12 , Oct 22, 2006
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                            If I remember correctly Solectria fitted out a Force with Supercaps. The
                            way they implemented them they were used to capture energy from regen, which
                            they do much better than the batteries can, then feed back the energy to
                            boost the current for accelleration. This did several things including
                            boosting range by about 15% and levelling out current draw from the
                            batteries which should help to increase battery life. I don't think they
                            tested the car long enough to verify improvements in battery life. They had
                            a web page about this at one time but it is long gone.

                            Noel


                            >From: Randy Saxton <Randy@...>
                            >Reply-To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                            >To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                            >Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Power storage device.
                            >Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 13:31:43 -0700
                            >
                            >I just got off the phone with Scott Thompson of Maxwell Technologies
                            >(first link below). They make many varieties of ultracapacitors.
                            >
                            >To put all this to rest, he said that ultracapacitors only hold 1/10
                            >(one-tenth) of the energy of lead-acid batteries (I'm guessing per
                            >similar volume). Their usefulness comes in the fact that they can
                            >provide their energy at 10 times the rate of a lead-acid battery.
                            >
                            >I hope this helps.
                            >
                            >Randy
                            >1996 Solectria E10
                            >
                            >
                            >Randy Saxton wrote:
                            >
                            > >I was curious about this device and did some searching. I found two
                            >leads:
                            > >
                            > >http://www.maxwell.com/ultracapacitors/index.asp
                            > >
                            > >http://www.google.com/url?sa=U&start=1&q=http://alteng.blogspot.com/2005/08/home-energy-station-hes.html&e=9797&sig=__PS3O4mTDfgnuWJviolsZYu9mEB4=
                            > >(See the last comment.)
                            > >
                            > >And a general neat ultracapacitor for EV link:
                            > >
                            > >http://www.nrel.gov/vehiclesandfuels/energystorage/ultracapacitors.html
                            > >
                            > >Randy
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >Nick Austin wrote:
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >>On Tue, Oct 17, 2006 at 07:40:08AM -0400, umarc wrote:
                            > >>
                            > >>
                            > >>
                            > >>
                            > >>>On Tue, 17 Oct 2006, laminar1314 wrote:
                            > >>>
                            > >>>
                            > >>>
                            > >>>
                            > >>>
                            > >>>>Specifications: 1 cubic foot, 300 pounds, 52kWh, 3500volts, 1000000
                            > >>>>charge cycles without degradation, 4 to 6 minute charge time, 0.1% per
                            > >>>>day autodischarge rate, $2500-3500, all ceramic non-toxic materials
                            >with
                            > >>>>nickle conductors.
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>52 kWh in 5 minutes is 624 kilowatts. That's 2,836 amperes at 220
                            >volts:
                            > >>>not something to try at home.
                            > >>>
                            > >>>
                            > >>>
                            > >>>
                            > >>At 3500 volts you only need 178 amps.
                            > >>
                            > >>(3500v == Nominal voltage of EEStor caps.)
                            > >>Dump charging is clearly the solution to sourcing ~630Kw.
                            > >>
                            > >>Most of the time, you would be fine with an overnight charge anyways.
                            > >>
                            > >>
                            > >>
                            > >>Yahoo! Groups Links
                            > >>
                            > >>
                            > >>
                            > >>
                            > >>
                            > >>
                            > >>
                            > >>
                            > >>
                            > >>
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            >
                            >
                            >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >

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