Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Another NLG4 Bites the Dust?

Expand Messages
  • Stephen Taylor
    Well I think my NLG4 charger for my NiCD car just died. Was charging the car this morning. Left the house for an hour or so about a half hour or so before
    Message 1 of 9 , Feb 2, 2006
    View Source
    • 0 Attachment
      Well I think my NLG4 charger for my NiCD car just died. Was charging the car this morning. Left the house for an hour or so about a half hour or so before the bulk charge would have ended and everything seemed fine. Came back and there was a distinct smell in the garage, not unlike new carpeting maybe even overheated carpeting. I used my nose and found the smell located around the charger. I know the smell that the NiCD batteries make as they are charging and this was distinctly different and stronger.

      Got the monitoring program going and everything checked out. The charger had finished bulk charge and appeared to be happily going thru the overcharge. The status was zero (NO PROBLEMS) and the voltages seemed to be about right. I allowed the charger to finish the overcharge which took another hour and a half. Still the monitoring gave no indication of problems.

      After charging, I unhooked the charger and opened it up. The first thing to greet me was a small amount of smoke that must have been trapped inside the closed container. Looking at the components nothing is terribly burned up and my nose isn't accurate enough to tell where the problem is. All the fuses test good. If I had to guess it is coming from one or both of the two big transformers (? I don't know electronic names) that are connected directly to the heat sink.

      Any thoughts would be appreciated.

      Stephen Taylor



      ---------------------------------
      Yahoo! Autos. Looking for a sweet ride? Get pricing, reviews, & more on new and used cars.

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Tom Hudson
      Stephen, Take a flashlight and get a good look at the circuit board kind of in the middle of the unit that has all the red and blue capacitors on it -- It s
      Message 2 of 9 , Feb 2, 2006
      View Source
      • 0 Attachment
        Stephen,

        Take a flashlight and get a good look at the circuit board kind of in
        the middle of the unit that has all the red and blue capacitors on it --
        It's mounted close to another board and may be hard to see the bottom
        surface. See if you can spot any black/brown discoloration around any
        of the places where those capacitors are soldered to it. I'm working on
        a unit now that has had a failure that burned out the circuit board on
        two of these capacitors, and I'd be interested to see if yours had a
        similar failure. You may also see whitish smoke deposits somewhere in
        there that may indicate the source of the failure.

        The good news is, the failure seems to be related to bad solder joints
        and may be repairable.

        -Tom

        Stephen Taylor wrote:

        >Well I think my NLG4 charger for my NiCD car just died. Was charging the car this morning. Left the house for an hour or so about a half hour or so before the bulk charge would have ended and everything seemed fine. Came back and there was a distinct smell in the garage, not unlike new carpeting maybe even overheated carpeting. I used my nose and found the smell located around the charger. I know the smell that the NiCD batteries make as they are charging and this was distinctly different and stronger.
        >
        > Got the monitoring program going and everything checked out. The charger had finished bulk charge and appeared to be happily going thru the overcharge. The status was zero (NO PROBLEMS) and the voltages seemed to be about right. I allowed the charger to finish the overcharge which took another hour and a half. Still the monitoring gave no indication of problems.
        >
        > After charging, I unhooked the charger and opened it up. The first thing to greet me was a small amount of smoke that must have been trapped inside the closed container. Looking at the components nothing is terribly burned up and my nose isn't accurate enough to tell where the problem is. All the fuses test good. If I had to guess it is coming from one or both of the two big transformers (? I don't know electronic names) that are connected directly to the heat sink.
        >
        > Any thoughts would be appreciated.
        >
        > Stephen Taylor
        >
        >
        >
        >---------------------------------
        > Yahoo! Autos. Looking for a sweet ride? Get pricing, reviews, & more on new and used cars.
        >
        >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >

        --
        Thomas Hudson
        http://portdistrict5.org -- 5th District Aldermanic Website
        http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power & More
        http://portgardenclub.org -- Port Washington Garden Club
        http://portlightstation.org -- Light Station Restoration
        http://klanky.com -- Animation Projects
      • theoldcars@aol.com
        Speaking of solder Anyone tried to use the new solder with the older solder like what would be in the Brusa charger? I assume the old stuff has lead and the
        Message 3 of 9 , Feb 2, 2006
        View Source
        • 0 Attachment
          Speaking of solder

          Anyone tried to use the new solder with the older solder like what would be
          in the Brusa charger? I assume the old stuff has lead and the new does not. I
          think you have to either have some of the old solder or totally clean off
          all the old solder if your going to use the new solder.

          Has anyone else figured out anything different?

          Don



          In a message dated 2/2/2006 1:42:49 PM Pacific Standard Time,
          tomhudson@... writes:

          Stephen,

          Take a flashlight and get a good look at the circuit board kind of in
          the middle of the unit that has all the red and blue capacitors on it --
          It's mounted close to another board and may be hard to see the bottom
          surface. See if you can spot any black/brown discoloration around any
          of the places where those capacitors are soldered to it. I'm working on
          a unit now that has had a failure that burned out the circuit board on
          two of these capacitors, and I'd be interested to see if yours had a
          similar failure. You may also see whitish smoke deposits somewhere in
          there that may indicate the source of the failure.

          The good news is, the failure seems to be related to bad solder joints
          and may be repairable.

          -Tom

          Stephen Taylor wrote:

          >Well I think my NLG4 charger for my NiCD car just died. Was charging the
          car this morning. Left the house for an hour or so about a half hour or so
          before the bulk charge would have ended and everything seemed fine. Came back
          and there was a distinct smell in the garage, not unlike new carpeting maybe
          even overheated carpeting. I used my nose and found the smell located around
          the charger. I know the smell that the NiCD batteries make as they are
          charging and this was distinctly different and stronger.
          >
          > Got the monitoring program going and everything checked out. The charger
          had finished bulk charge and appeared to be happily going thru the
          overcharge. The status was zero (NO PROBLEMS) and the voltages seemed to be about
          right. I allowed the charger to finish the overcharge which took another hour
          and a half. Still the monitoring gave no indication of problems.
          >
          > After charging, I unhooked the charger and opened it up. The first thing
          to greet me was a small amount of smoke that must have been trapped inside
          the closed container. Looking at the components nothing is terribly burned up
          and my nose isn't accurate enough to tell where the problem is. All the
          fuses test good. If I had to guess it is coming from one or both of the two
          big transformers (? I don't know electronic names) that are connected
          directly to the heat sink.
          >
          > Any thoughts would be appreciated.
          >
          > Stephen Taylor
          >
          >
          >
          >---------------------------------
          > Yahoo! Autos. Looking for a sweet ride? Get pricing, reviews, & more on
          new and used cars.
          >
          >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >

          --
          Thomas Hudson
          http://portdistrict5.org -- 5th District Aldermanic Website
          http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power & More
          http://portgardenclub.org -- Port Washington Garden Club
          http://portlightstation.org -- Light Station Restoration
          http://klanky.com -- Animation Projects





          Yahoo! Groups Links









          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Tom Hudson
          AFAIK, all electronic solder is an alloy of lead and tin. Plumbing solder is lead-free, but you don t want to use it on electronics because it uses an acid
          Message 4 of 9 , Feb 2, 2006
          View Source
          • 0 Attachment
            AFAIK, all electronic solder is an alloy of lead and tin. Plumbing
            solder is lead-free, but you don't want to use it on electronics because
            it uses an acid flux that will destroy the circuitry. Electronic solder
            uses non-corrosive rosin flux. There's also silver solder for jewelry
            and such, which is much stronger than lead solder but it typically also
            uses acid flux.

            -Tom

            theoldcars@... wrote:

            >
            >Speaking of solder
            >
            >Anyone tried to use the new solder with the older solder like what would be
            >in the Brusa charger? I assume the old stuff has lead and the new does not. I
            >think you have to either have some of the old solder or totally clean off
            >all the old solder if your going to use the new solder.
            >
            >Has anyone else figured out anything different?
            >
            >Don
            >
            >
            >

            --
            Thomas Hudson
            http://portdistrict5.org -- 5th District Aldermanic Website
            http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power & More
            http://portgardenclub.org -- Port Washington Garden Club
            http://portlightstation.org -- Light Station Restoration
            http://klanky.com -- Animation Projects
          • gjc0@aol.com
            Greetings all: The electronics industry is in the process of changing from the traditional lead tin solder alloy to a lead-free alloy which is mainly tin.
            Message 5 of 9 , Feb 2, 2006
            View Source
            • 0 Attachment
              Greetings all:

              The electronics industry is in the process of changing from the
              traditional lead tin solder alloy to a lead-free alloy which is mainly tin.

              Soon, all consumer electronics will be lead free. This is part of a
              law in Europe and a movement called ROHS (reduction of hazardous substances).

              I will guess that all the chargers over 2 years old use lead / tin solder.
              If you go to the electronics store ask for lead / tin alloy.

              I do not know how difficult it is to mix the two kinds of solder, but I believe you need to get the lead free stuff a little hotter. In all cases, a clean, well tinned soldering iron is mandatory for a good job. If you are soldering large items, you will need an iron big enough to quickly heat up your joint. But, like Tom said, avoid acid flux!

              All there any electronics technicians out there who have hands-on experience with this stuff?

              Sincerely,
              Gary Carlson


              -----Original Message-----
              From: Tom Hudson <tomhudson@...>
              To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Thu, 02 Feb 2006 19:42:25 -0600
              Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Another NLG4 Bites the Dust?


              AFAIK, all electronic solder is an alloy of lead and tin. Plumbing
              solder is lead-free, but you don't want to use it on electronics because
              it uses an acid flux that will destroy the circuitry. Electronic solder
              uses non-corrosive rosin flux. There's also silver solder for jewelry
              and such, which is much stronger than lead solder but it typically also
              uses acid flux.

              -Tom

              theoldcars@... wrote:

              >
              >Speaking of solder
              >
              >Anyone tried to use the new solder with the older solder like what would be
              >in the Brusa charger? I assume the old stuff has lead and the new does not. I
              >think you have to either have some of the old solder or totally clean off
              >all the old solder if your going to use the new solder.
              >
              >Has anyone else figured out anything different?
              >
              >Don
              >
              >
              >

              --
              Thomas Hudson
              http://portdistrict5.org -- 5th District Aldermanic Website
              http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power & More
              http://portgardenclub.org -- Port Washington Garden Club
              http://portlightstation.org -- Light Station Restoration
              http://klanky.com -- Animation Projects





              Yahoo! Groups Links






              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Tom Hudson
              I had heard something about this movement a while back (several years ago) but wasn t aware it had gotten this far! Thanks for the info, Gary. -Tom ... --
              Message 6 of 9 , Feb 3, 2006
              View Source
              • 0 Attachment
                I had heard something about this movement a while back (several years
                ago) but wasn't aware it had gotten this far! Thanks for the info, Gary.

                -Tom

                gjc0@... wrote:

                >Greetings all:
                >
                >The electronics industry is in the process of changing from the
                >traditional lead tin solder alloy to a lead-free alloy which is mainly tin.
                >
                >Soon, all consumer electronics will be lead free. This is part of a
                >law in Europe and a movement called ROHS (reduction of hazardous substances).
                >
                >I will guess that all the chargers over 2 years old use lead / tin solder.
                >If you go to the electronics store ask for lead / tin alloy.
                >
                >I do not know how difficult it is to mix the two kinds of solder, but I believe you need to get the lead free stuff a little hotter. In all cases, a clean, well tinned soldering iron is mandatory for a good job. If you are soldering large items, you will need an iron big enough to quickly heat up your joint. But, like Tom said, avoid acid flux!
                >
                >All there any electronics technicians out there who have hands-on experience with this stuff?
                >
                >Sincerely,
                >Gary Carlson
                >
                >

                --
                Thomas Hudson
                http://portdistrict5.org -- 5th District Aldermanic Website
                http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power & More
                http://portgardenclub.org -- Port Washington Garden Club
                http://portlightstation.org -- Light Station Restoration
                http://klanky.com -- Animation Projects
              • Rex Allison
                The company I work at is going through the process of RoHS compliance. I think it is a good idea (although how do you make a RoHS compliant Lead Acid
                Message 7 of 9 , Feb 3, 2006
                View Source
                • 0 Attachment
                  The company I work at is going through the process of
                  RoHS compliance. I think it is a good idea (although
                  how do you make a RoHS compliant Lead Acid battery???)
                  but the preliminary results we have from our first
                  assembled boards is that the solder doesn't flow very
                  well. Also one of the technicians has been testing the
                  solder and flux and it isn't easy to work with. This
                  could be based on our lack of experience.
                  My undersanding is that the boards have to be gold
                  plated and the solder is mostly a mix of silver so you
                  won't be able to use the new solder on old boards.
                  Rex


                  --- Tom Hudson <tomhudson@...> wrote:

                  > I had heard something about this movement a while
                  > back (several years
                  > ago) but wasn't aware it had gotten this far!
                  > Thanks for the info, Gary.
                  >
                  > -Tom
                  >
                  > gjc0@... wrote:
                  >
                  > >Greetings all:
                  > >
                  > >The electronics industry is in the process of
                  > changing from the
                  > >traditional lead tin solder alloy to a lead-free
                  > alloy which is mainly tin.
                  > >
                  > >Soon, all consumer electronics will be lead free.
                  > This is part of a
                  > >law in Europe and a movement called ROHS (reduction
                  > of hazardous substances).
                  > >
                  > >I will guess that all the chargers over 2 years old
                  > use lead / tin solder.
                  > >If you go to the electronics store ask for lead /
                  > tin alloy.
                  > >
                  > >I do not know how difficult it is to mix the two
                  > kinds of solder, but I believe you need to get the
                  > lead free stuff a little hotter. In all cases, a
                  > clean, well tinned soldering iron is mandatory for a
                  > good job. If you are soldering large items, you
                  > will need an iron big enough to quickly heat up your
                  > joint. But, like Tom said, avoid acid flux!
                  > >
                  > >All there any electronics technicians out there who
                  > have hands-on experience with this stuff?
                  > >
                  > >Sincerely,
                  > >Gary Carlson
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  > --
                  > Thomas Hudson
                  > http://portdistrict5.org -- 5th District Aldermanic
                  > Website
                  > http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power
                  > & More
                  > http://portgardenclub.org -- Port Washington Garden
                  > Club
                  > http://portlightstation.org -- Light Station
                  > Restoration
                  > http://klanky.com -- Animation Projects
                  >
                  >
                  >


                  __________________________________________________
                  Do You Yahoo!?
                  Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                  http://mail.yahoo.com
                • Stephen Taylor
                  Tom, Sorry, but Yahoo didn t deliver your message to me until this morning. Funny I got the talk about solder, but not this one. Anyway I m not a good judge,
                  Message 8 of 9 , Feb 4, 2006
                  View Source
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Tom,

                    Sorry, but Yahoo didn't deliver your message to me until this morning. Funny I got the talk about solder, but not this one.

                    Anyway I'm not a good judge, but I don't see any really bad spots on the board with the Blue and Red capacitors. I do see some very very small amounts of brown discoloration around several. I also see one that looks like it has an oil stain around it, it is one of the taller red ones near the very center of the charger. Also there is some white stuff that looks like glue around it, but I'm assuming that is normal. The main discolorations are around the big transformers above that board and especially the little white object that is soldered roughly between the two fuses. There is alot of brown around those. Haven't seen any trace of smoke.

                    I had a friend suggest that I try running the charger outside of the box and see if I could locate the smoking area that way. I could do that, but I wonder if I might damage the charger further by running it when there is obviously a problem somewhere.

                    Stephen Taylor

                    Tom Hudson <tomhudson@...> wrote:
                    Stephen,

                    Take a flashlight and get a good look at the circuit board kind of in
                    the middle of the unit that has all the red and blue capacitors on it --
                    It's mounted close to another board and may be hard to see the bottom
                    surface. See if you can spot any black/brown discoloration around any
                    of the places where those capacitors are soldered to it. I'm working on
                    a unit now that has had a failure that burned out the circuit board on
                    two of these capacitors, and I'd be interested to see if yours had a
                    similar failure. You may also see whitish smoke deposits somewhere in
                    there that may indicate the source of the failure.

                    The good news is, the failure seems to be related to bad solder joints
                    and may be repairable.

                    -Tom

                    Stephen Taylor wrote:

                    >Well I think my NLG4 charger for my NiCD car just died. Was charging the car this morning. Left the house for an hour or so about a half hour or so before the bulk charge would have ended and everything seemed fine. Came back and there was a distinct smell in the garage, not unlike new carpeting maybe even overheated carpeting. I used my nose and found the smell located around the charger. I know the smell that the NiCD batteries make as they are charging and this was distinctly different and stronger.
                    >
                    > Got the monitoring program going and everything checked out. The charger had finished bulk charge and appeared to be happily going thru the overcharge. The status was zero (NO PROBLEMS) and the voltages seemed to be about right. I allowed the charger to finish the overcharge which took another hour and a half. Still the monitoring gave no indication of problems.
                    >
                    > After charging, I unhooked the charger and opened it up. The first thing to greet me was a small amount of smoke that must have been trapped inside the closed container. Looking at the components nothing is terribly burned up and my nose isn't accurate enough to tell where the problem is. All the fuses test good. If I had to guess it is coming from one or both of the two big transformers (? I don't know electronic names) that are connected directly to the heat sink.
                    >
                    > Any thoughts would be appreciated.
                    >
                    > Stephen Taylor
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >---------------------------------
                    > Yahoo! Autos. Looking for a sweet ride? Get pricing, reviews, & more on new and used cars.
                    >
                    >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >

                    --
                    Thomas Hudson
                    http://portdistrict5.org -- 5th District Aldermanic Website
                    http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power & More
                    http://portgardenclub.org -- Port Washington Garden Club
                    http://portlightstation.org -- Light Station Restoration
                    http://klanky.com -- Animation Projects




                    SPONSORED LINKS
                    Automotive car part Automotive fuel cell Automotive fuel tank Automotive car cover Electric car Alternative fuels

                    ---------------------------------
                    YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS


                    Visit your group "solectria_ev" on the web.

                    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    solectria_ev-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


                    ---------------------------------





                    ---------------------------------
                    Relax. Yahoo! Mail virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses!

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.