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Re: [solectria_ev] The Range Saga

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  • Stephen Taylor
    Still got to ask what you are using to measure the voltage? If a multimeter where are you measuring it from? What kind of charger do you have? Have you
    Message 1 of 25 , Nov 2, 2005
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      Still got to ask what you are using to measure the voltage? If a multimeter where are you measuring it from? What kind of charger do you have? Have you looked on any of the labels on the charger or controller to see what they say the voltages are?

      I'm no expert, but with a negative number of -3 on the AH Counter, it is either still charging, just finished within the last say 30 seconds or has been sitting on a float charge for quite sometime. Either way if you have a 156 volt car the voltage should be over 165 volts.

      Stephen Taylor




      ---------------------------------
      Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Noel P. Luneau
      Hi Stephen, I have the optional Dual Ammeter/Voltmeter installed. When I mentioned that the voltage is at 165v, it s an extrapolation because of the small
      Message 2 of 25 , Nov 2, 2005
      • 0 Attachment
        Hi Stephen,

        I have the optional Dual Ammeter/Voltmeter installed. When I mentioned
        that the voltage is at 165v, it's an extrapolation because of the small
        scale. Today the voltage is over 156v.

        I've been reading the Owner's Manual and it mentions the following:
        "Under normal conditions, the charger will overcharge the batteries
        slightly, so the Amp-Hour Meter will read between 00.00 and -05.00 when
        the charging is complete. This is due to an inefficiency of charging
        and is normal..."

        I was thinking of scanning the manual to a PDF file. Would anyone be
        interested in a copy?

        Thanks,

        Noel L



        ________________________________

        From: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com [mailto:solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com]
        On Behalf Of Stephen Taylor
        Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 7:16 AM
        To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] The Range Saga


        Still got to ask what you are using to measure the voltage? If a
        multimeter where are you measuring it from? What kind of charger do you
        have? Have you looked on any of the labels on the charger or controller
        to see what they say the voltages are?

        I'm no expert, but with a negative number of -3 on the AH Counter, it is
        either still charging, just finished within the last say 30 seconds or
        has been sitting on a float charge for quite sometime. Either way if
        you have a 156 volt car the voltage should be over 165 volts.

        Stephen Taylor




        ---------------------------------
        Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • lktaku
        Noel, I read the same thing too. Also, Solectria (Azure) sent me the Word document for the 96 manuals which I could post as a file, if you d like. Lisa ...
        Message 3 of 25 , Nov 2, 2005
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          Noel,

          I read the same thing too. Also, Solectria (Azure) sent me the Word
          document for the 96 manuals which I could post as a file, if you'd
          like.

          Lisa


          --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "Noel P. Luneau" <nluneau@p...>
          wrote:
          >
          > Hi Stephen,
          >
          > I have the optional Dual Ammeter/Voltmeter installed. When I
          mentioned
          > that the voltage is at 165v, it's an extrapolation because of the
          small
          > scale. Today the voltage is over 156v.
          >
          > I've been reading the Owner's Manual and it mentions the following:
          > "Under normal conditions, the charger will overcharge the batteries
          > slightly, so the Amp-Hour Meter will read between 00.00 and -05.00
          when
          > the charging is complete. This is due to an inefficiency of
          charging
          > and is normal..."
          >
          > I was thinking of scanning the manual to a PDF file. Would anyone
          be
          > interested in a copy?
          >
          > Thanks,
          >
          > Noel L
          >
          >
          >
          > ________________________________
          >
          > From: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
          [mailto:solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com]
          > On Behalf Of Stephen Taylor
          > Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 7:16 AM
          > To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] The Range Saga
          >
          >
          > Still got to ask what you are using to measure the voltage? If a
          > multimeter where are you measuring it from? What kind of charger
          do you
          > have? Have you looked on any of the labels on the charger or
          controller
          > to see what they say the voltages are?
          >
          > I'm no expert, but with a negative number of -3 on the AH Counter,
          it is
          > either still charging, just finished within the last say 30
          seconds or
          > has been sitting on a float charge for quite sometime. Either way
          if
          > you have a 156 volt car the voltage should be over 165 volts.
          >
          > Stephen Taylor
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ---------------------------------
          > Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > SPONSORED LINKS
          > Automotive car part
          > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
          t=ms&k=Automotive+car+part&w1=Automotive+c
          >
          ar+part&w2=Automotive+fuel+cell&w3=Automotive+fuel+tank&w4=Automotive
          +ca
          >
          r+cover&w5=Electric+car&w6=Alternative+fuels&c=6&s=144&.sig=uzSFHwzw1
          Vj0
          > lVmz25vKiA> Automotive fuel cell
          > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
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          >
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          > a3ILzRD8NgA> Automotive fuel tank
          > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
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          >
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          > ar+cover&w5=Electric+car&w6=Alternative+fuels&c=6&s=144&.sig=RdKoL-
          Vctqe
          > eh6L1sc81TQ>
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          >
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          > 3RA> Alternative fuels
          > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
          t=ms&k=Alternative+fuels&w1=Automotive+car
          >
          +part&w2=Automotive+fuel+cell&w3=Automotive+fuel+tank&w4=Automotive+c
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          >
          cover&w5=Electric+car&w6=Alternative+fuels&c=6&s=144&.sig=8THmrIHYqYO
          DaC
          > HxUZbBLQ>
          >
          > ________________________________
          >
          > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
          >
          >
          >
          > * Visit your group "solectria_ev
          > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/solectria_ev> " on the web.
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        • Noel P. Luneau
          I think that is a great idea, as long as file posting is open on the group. Moderators? Noel L ________________________________ From:
          Message 4 of 25 , Nov 2, 2005
          • 0 Attachment
            I think that is a great idea, as long as file posting is open on the
            group.

            Moderators?

            Noel L

            ________________________________

            From: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com [mailto:solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com]
            On Behalf Of lktaku
            Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 8:10 AM
            To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: The Range Saga


            Noel,

            I read the same thing too. Also, Solectria (Azure) sent me the Word
            document for the 96 manuals which I could post as a file, if you'd
            like.

            Lisa


            --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "Noel P. Luneau" <nluneau@p...>
            wrote:
            >
            > Hi Stephen,
            >
            > I have the optional Dual Ammeter/Voltmeter installed. When I
            mentioned
            > that the voltage is at 165v, it's an extrapolation because of the
            small
            > scale. Today the voltage is over 156v.
            >
            > I've been reading the Owner's Manual and it mentions the following:
            > "Under normal conditions, the charger will overcharge the batteries
            > slightly, so the Amp-Hour Meter will read between 00.00 and -05.00
            when
            > the charging is complete. This is due to an inefficiency of
            charging
            > and is normal..."
            >
            > I was thinking of scanning the manual to a PDF file. Would anyone
            be
            > interested in a copy?
            >
            > Thanks,
            >
            > Noel L
            >
            >
            >
            > ________________________________
            >
            > From: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
            [mailto:solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com]
            > On Behalf Of Stephen Taylor
            > Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 7:16 AM
            > To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] The Range Saga
            >
            >
            > Still got to ask what you are using to measure the voltage? If a
            > multimeter where are you measuring it from? What kind of charger
            do you
            > have? Have you looked on any of the labels on the charger or
            controller
            > to see what they say the voltages are?
            >
            > I'm no expert, but with a negative number of -3 on the AH Counter,
            it is
            > either still charging, just finished within the last say 30
            seconds or
            > has been sitting on a float charge for quite sometime. Either way
            if
            > you have a 156 volt car the voltage should be over 165 volts.
            >
            > Stephen Taylor
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ---------------------------------
            > Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > SPONSORED LINKS
            > Automotive car part
            > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
            t=ms&k=Automotive+car+part&w1=Automotive+c
            >
            ar+part&w2=Automotive+fuel+cell&w3=Automotive+fuel+tank&w4=Automotive
            +ca
            >
            r+cover&w5=Electric+car&w6=Alternative+fuels&c=6&s=144&.sig=uzSFHwzw1
            Vj0
            > lVmz25vKiA> Automotive fuel cell
            > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
            t=ms&k=Automotive+fuel+cell&w1=Automotive+
            >
            car+part&w2=Automotive+fuel+cell&w3=Automotive+fuel+tank&w4=Automotiv
            e+c
            >
            ar+cover&w5=Electric+car&w6=Alternative+fuels&c=6&s=144&.sig=sICtIYFW
            NdP
            > a3ILzRD8NgA> Automotive fuel tank
            > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
            t=ms&k=Automotive+fuel+tank&w1=Automotive+
            >
            car+part&w2=Automotive+fuel+cell&w3=Automotive+fuel+tank&w4=Automotiv
            e+c
            > ar+cover&w5=Electric+car&w6=Alternative+fuels&c=6&s=144&.sig=RdKoL-
            Vctqe
            > eh6L1sc81TQ>
            > Automotive car cover
            > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
            t=ms&k=Automotive+car+cover&w1=Automotive+
            >
            car+part&w2=Automotive+fuel+cell&w3=Automotive+fuel+tank&w4=Automotiv
            e+c
            >
            ar+cover&w5=Electric+car&w6=Alternative+fuels&c=6&s=144&.sig=7eFCCbRQ
            bYr
            > 9kNQ9SaOsjQ> Electric car
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            t=ms&k=Electric+car&w1=Automotive+car+part
            >
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            ver
            >
            &w5=Electric+car&w6=Alternative+fuels&c=6&s=144&.sig=DrObmN56c2Pqs67E
            MgB
            > 3RA> Alternative fuels
            > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
            t=ms&k=Alternative+fuels&w1=Automotive+car
            >
            +part&w2=Automotive+fuel+cell&w3=Automotive+fuel+tank&w4=Automotive+c
            ar+
            >
            cover&w5=Electric+car&w6=Alternative+fuels&c=6&s=144&.sig=8THmrIHYqYO
            DaC
            > HxUZbBLQ>
            >
            > ________________________________
            >
            > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
            >
            >
            >
            > * Visit your group "solectria_ev
            > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/solectria_ev> " on the web.
            >
            > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > solectria_ev-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            > <mailto:solectria_ev-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?
            subject=Unsubscribe>
            >
            > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
            > Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
            >
            >
            > ________________________________
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >






            ________________________________

            YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



            * Visit your group "solectria_ev
            <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/solectria_ev> " on the web.

            * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            solectria_ev-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            <mailto:solectria_ev-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>

            * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
            Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .


            ________________________________




            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Stephen Taylor
            I don t know about your AH counter, but in my 1997, two 1999 s and Sunrise (none of which have your optional meters), the AH Counter resets to 0.00 after the
            Message 5 of 25 , Nov 2, 2005
            • 0 Attachment
              I don't know about your AH counter, but in my 1997, two 1999's and Sunrise (none of which have your optional meters), the AH Counter resets to 0.00 after the charge is complete. So on my cars a -3.0 AH counter reading can be seen, but only while the charger is actually charging. After the charge while the car is on a float charge the AH meter will slowly become negative again, but it would take days for it to reach -3.0 again.

              Since you mention it is hard to read the actual voltage on the optional meter maybe the reading your getting isn't accurate. If you wanted you could pull the big Grey Anderson Connector under the front hood and check the voltage at that point with a multimeter. You could also check the voltage at the Red Anderson Connector that attaches to the charger in the trunk, but it may be buried under styrofoam.

              It would be helpful for both you and Lisa to check the labels on your controller and charger to see that they both say they are programmed for a 156 volt pack. The controller is upfront on the driver's side on top of the battery box and the label, if Solectria was consistent with their placement, is on the left side of the controller when looking at it from the front of the car.

              If you have an NLG4 charger (essentially a black cube with a fan and heat sink on top) then you could go to the Brusa site and download the monlog software that would allow you to monitor the charger while it is charging with a PC.

              Stephen Taylor



              lktaku <lktaku@...> wrote:
              Noel,

              I read the same thing too. Also, Solectria (Azure) sent me the Word
              document for the 96 manuals which I could post as a file, if you'd
              like.

              Lisa


              --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "Noel P. Luneau" <nluneau@p...>
              wrote:
              >
              > Hi Stephen,
              >
              > I have the optional Dual Ammeter/Voltmeter installed. When I
              mentioned
              > that the voltage is at 165v, it's an extrapolation because of the
              small
              > scale. Today the voltage is over 156v.
              >
              > I've been reading the Owner's Manual and it mentions the following:
              > "Under normal conditions, the charger will overcharge the batteries
              > slightly, so the Amp-Hour Meter will read between 00.00 and -05.00
              when
              > the charging is complete. This is due to an inefficiency of
              charging
              > and is normal..."
              >
              > I was thinking of scanning the manual to a PDF file. Would anyone
              be
              > interested in a copy?
              >
              > Thanks,
              >
              > Noel L
              >
              >
              >
              > ________________________________
              >
              > From: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
              [mailto:solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com]
              > On Behalf Of Stephen Taylor
              > Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 7:16 AM
              > To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] The Range Saga
              >
              >
              > Still got to ask what you are using to measure the voltage? If a
              > multimeter where are you measuring it from? What kind of charger
              do you
              > have? Have you looked on any of the labels on the charger or
              controller
              > to see what they say the voltages are?
              >
              > I'm no expert, but with a negative number of -3 on the AH Counter,
              it is
              > either still charging, just finished within the last say 30
              seconds or
              > has been sitting on a float charge for quite sometime. Either way
              if
              > you have a 156 volt car the voltage should be over 165 volts.
              >
              > Stephen Taylor
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > ---------------------------------
              > Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > SPONSORED LINKS
              > Automotive car part
              > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
              t=ms&k=Automotive+car+part&w1=Automotive+c
              >
              ar+part&w2=Automotive+fuel+cell&w3=Automotive+fuel+tank&w4=Automotive
              +ca
              >
              r+cover&w5=Electric+car&w6=Alternative+fuels&c=6&s=144&.sig=uzSFHwzw1
              Vj0
              > lVmz25vKiA> Automotive fuel cell
              > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
              t=ms&k=Automotive+fuel+cell&w1=Automotive+
              >
              car+part&w2=Automotive+fuel+cell&w3=Automotive+fuel+tank&w4=Automotiv
              e+c
              >
              ar+cover&w5=Electric+car&w6=Alternative+fuels&c=6&s=144&.sig=sICtIYFW
              NdP
              > a3ILzRD8NgA> Automotive fuel tank
              > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
              t=ms&k=Automotive+fuel+tank&w1=Automotive+
              >
              car+part&w2=Automotive+fuel+cell&w3=Automotive+fuel+tank&w4=Automotiv
              e+c
              > ar+cover&w5=Electric+car&w6=Alternative+fuels&c=6&s=144&.sig=RdKoL-
              Vctqe
              > eh6L1sc81TQ>
              > Automotive car cover
              > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
              t=ms&k=Automotive+car+cover&w1=Automotive+
              >
              car+part&w2=Automotive+fuel+cell&w3=Automotive+fuel+tank&w4=Automotiv
              e+c
              >
              ar+cover&w5=Electric+car&w6=Alternative+fuels&c=6&s=144&.sig=7eFCCbRQ
              bYr
              > 9kNQ9SaOsjQ> Electric car
              > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
              t=ms&k=Electric+car&w1=Automotive+car+part
              >
              &w2=Automotive+fuel+cell&w3=Automotive+fuel+tank&w4=Automotive+car+co
              ver
              >
              &w5=Electric+car&w6=Alternative+fuels&c=6&s=144&.sig=DrObmN56c2Pqs67E
              MgB
              > 3RA> Alternative fuels
              > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
              t=ms&k=Alternative+fuels&w1=Automotive+car
              >
              +part&w2=Automotive+fuel+cell&w3=Automotive+fuel+tank&w4=Automotive+c
              ar+
              >
              cover&w5=Electric+car&w6=Alternative+fuels&c=6&s=144&.sig=8THmrIHYqYO
              DaC
              > HxUZbBLQ>
              >
              > ________________________________
              >
              > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
              >
              >
              >
              > * Visit your group "solectria_ev
              > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/solectria_ev> " on the web.
              >
              > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > solectria_ev-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              > <mailto:solectria_ev-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?
              subject=Unsubscribe>
              >
              > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
              > Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
              >
              >
              > ________________________________
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              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >






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            • Tom Hudson
              The negative number on the Ah counter is usually roughly 10% of the amount of energy you used from the pack. If you drive 30Ah, the charger will put back in
              Message 6 of 25 , Nov 2, 2005
              • 0 Attachment
                The negative number on the Ah counter is usually roughly 10% of the
                amount of energy you used from the pack. If you drive 30Ah, the charger
                will put back in 33Ah, resulting in -3 on the Ah counter. On my E-10,
                if I don't use it for a week or so after charging, the Ah counter will
                be at a pretty large necative number (-7 or higher... lower? You know
                what I mean) due to trickle charging.

                -Tom

                Stephen Taylor wrote:

                >Still got to ask what you are using to measure the voltage? If a multimeter where are you measuring it from? What kind of charger do you have? Have you looked on any of the labels on the charger or controller to see what they say the voltages are?
                >
                >I'm no expert, but with a negative number of -3 on the AH Counter, it is either still charging, just finished within the last say 30 seconds or has been sitting on a float charge for quite sometime. Either way if you have a 156 volt car the voltage should be over 165 volts.
                >
                >Stephen Taylor
                >
                >

                --
                Thomas Hudson
                http://portdistrict5.org -- 5th District Aldermanic Website
                http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power & More
                http://portgardenclub.org -- Port Washington Garden Club
                http://portlightstation.org -- Light Station Restoration
                http://klanky.com -- Animation Projects
              • Tom Hudson
                Good points, Stephen. One thing to note, though -- The Ah counter only resets to zero after a charge if there is a large enough current draw to overcome the
                Message 7 of 25 , Nov 2, 2005
                • 0 Attachment
                  Good points, Stephen. One thing to note, though -- The Ah counter only
                  resets to zero after a charge if there is a large enough current draw to
                  overcome the charger's float current. On my lead-acid truck, I can open
                  the door after a charge and the meter stays in the negative -- The
                  interior light doesn't draw enough current to overcome the charger's
                  float current. If I turn on the headlights, that's enough to reset it
                  to zero.

                  On my NiCD force, the meter resets to zero immediately at the end of a
                  charge because the charger actually turns off -- There is no float
                  charge for NiCDs -- and the current used by the charger itself, which in
                  a NiCD car runs parasitically off the battery pack, is enough to trigger
                  the Ah counter to reset.

                  So for some vehicles they can still show a negative number after a
                  charge is completed.

                  -Tom

                  Stephen Taylor wrote:

                  >I don't know about your AH counter, but in my 1997, two 1999's and Sunrise (none of which have your optional meters), the AH Counter resets to 0.00 after the charge is complete. So on my cars a -3.0 AH counter reading can be seen, but only while the charger is actually charging. After the charge while the car is on a float charge the AH meter will slowly become negative again, but it would take days for it to reach -3.0 again.
                  >
                  >Since you mention it is hard to read the actual voltage on the optional meter maybe the reading your getting isn't accurate. If you wanted you could pull the big Grey Anderson Connector under the front hood and check the voltage at that point with a multimeter. You could also check the voltage at the Red Anderson Connector that attaches to the charger in the trunk, but it may be buried under styrofoam.
                  >
                  >It would be helpful for both you and Lisa to check the labels on your controller and charger to see that they both say they are programmed for a 156 volt pack. The controller is upfront on the driver's side on top of the battery box and the label, if Solectria was consistent with their placement, is on the left side of the controller when looking at it from the front of the car.
                  >
                  >If you have an NLG4 charger (essentially a black cube with a fan and heat sink on top) then you could go to the Brusa site and download the monlog software that would allow you to monitor the charger while it is charging with a PC.
                  >
                  >Stephen Taylor
                  >
                  >
                  >

                  --
                  Thomas Hudson
                  http://portdistrict5.org -- 5th District Aldermanic Website
                  http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power & More
                  http://portgardenclub.org -- Port Washington Garden Club
                  http://portlightstation.org -- Light Station Restoration
                  http://klanky.com -- Animation Projects
                • Noel P. Luneau
                  I just made the connection... The Stephen Taylor with the Sunrise! I just saw your car at http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/655.html
                  Message 8 of 25 , Nov 2, 2005
                  • 0 Attachment
                    I just made the connection... The Stephen Taylor with the Sunrise! I
                    just saw your car at http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/655.html
                    <http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/655.html> . Very nice!

                    Ok, can we have the "dirt" on the car, please. Where did you get it,
                    performance, range, impressions, and does it have a brother looking for
                    a home, :)

                    Thanks Stephen,

                    Noel L

                    ________________________________

                    From: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com [mailto:solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com]
                    On Behalf Of Stephen Taylor
                    Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 9:28 AM
                    To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Re: The Range Saga


                    I don't know about your AH counter, but in my 1997, two 1999's and
                    Sunrise (none of which have your optional meters), the AH Counter resets
                    to 0.00 after the charge is complete. So on my cars a -3.0 AH counter
                    reading can be seen, but only while the charger is actually charging.
                    After the charge while the car is on a float charge the AH meter will
                    slowly become negative again, but it would take days for it to reach
                    -3.0 again.

                    Since you mention it is hard to read the actual voltage on the optional
                    meter maybe the reading your getting isn't accurate. If you wanted you
                    could pull the big Grey Anderson Connector under the front hood and
                    check the voltage at that point with a multimeter. You could also check
                    the voltage at the Red Anderson Connector that attaches to the charger
                    in the trunk, but it may be buried under styrofoam.

                    It would be helpful for both you and Lisa to check the labels on your
                    controller and charger to see that they both say they are programmed for
                    a 156 volt pack. The controller is upfront on the driver's side on top
                    of the battery box and the label, if Solectria was consistent with their
                    placement, is on the left side of the controller when looking at it from
                    the front of the car.

                    If you have an NLG4 charger (essentially a black cube with a fan and
                    heat sink on top) then you could go to the Brusa site and download the
                    monlog software that would allow you to monitor the charger while it is
                    charging with a PC.

                    Stephen Taylor



                    lktaku <lktaku@...> wrote:
                    Noel,

                    I read the same thing too. Also, Solectria (Azure) sent me the Word
                    document for the 96 manuals which I could post as a file, if you'd
                    like.

                    Lisa


                    --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "Noel P. Luneau" <nluneau@p...>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    > Hi Stephen,
                    >
                    > I have the optional Dual Ammeter/Voltmeter installed. When I
                    mentioned
                    > that the voltage is at 165v, it's an extrapolation because of the
                    small
                    > scale. Today the voltage is over 156v.
                    >
                    > I've been reading the Owner's Manual and it mentions the following:
                    > "Under normal conditions, the charger will overcharge the batteries
                    > slightly, so the Amp-Hour Meter will read between 00.00 and -05.00
                    when
                    > the charging is complete. This is due to an inefficiency of
                    charging
                    > and is normal..."
                    >
                    > I was thinking of scanning the manual to a PDF file. Would anyone
                    be
                    > interested in a copy?
                    >
                    > Thanks,
                    >
                    > Noel L
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ________________________________
                    >
                    > From: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                    [mailto:solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com]
                    > On Behalf Of Stephen Taylor
                    > Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 7:16 AM
                    > To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] The Range Saga
                    >
                    >
                    > Still got to ask what you are using to measure the voltage? If a
                    > multimeter where are you measuring it from? What kind of charger
                    do you
                    > have? Have you looked on any of the labels on the charger or
                    controller
                    > to see what they say the voltages are?
                    >
                    > I'm no expert, but with a negative number of -3 on the AH Counter,
                    it is
                    > either still charging, just finished within the last say 30
                    seconds or
                    > has been sitting on a float charge for quite sometime. Either way
                    if
                    > you have a 156 volt car the voltage should be over 165 volts.
                    >
                    > Stephen Taylor
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ---------------------------------
                    > Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > SPONSORED LINKS
                    > Automotive car part
                    > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
                    t=ms&k=Automotive+car+part&w1=Automotive+c
                    >
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                    +ca
                    >
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                    Vj0
                    > lVmz25vKiA> Automotive fuel cell
                    > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
                    t=ms&k=Automotive+fuel+cell&w1=Automotive+
                    >
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                    e+c
                    >
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                    NdP
                    > a3ILzRD8NgA> Automotive fuel tank
                    > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
                    t=ms&k=Automotive+fuel+tank&w1=Automotive+
                    >
                    car+part&w2=Automotive+fuel+cell&w3=Automotive+fuel+tank&w4=Automotiv
                    e+c
                    > ar+cover&w5=Electric+car&w6=Alternative+fuels&c=6&s=144&.sig=RdKoL-
                    Vctqe
                    > eh6L1sc81TQ>
                    > Automotive car cover
                    > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
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                    >
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                    bYr
                    > 9kNQ9SaOsjQ> Electric car
                    > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
                    t=ms&k=Electric+car&w1=Automotive+car+part
                    >
                    &w2=Automotive+fuel+cell&w3=Automotive+fuel+tank&w4=Automotive+car+co
                    ver
                    >
                    &w5=Electric+car&w6=Alternative+fuels&c=6&s=144&.sig=DrObmN56c2Pqs67E
                    MgB
                    > 3RA> Alternative fuels
                    > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
                    t=ms&k=Alternative+fuels&w1=Automotive+car
                    >
                    +part&w2=Automotive+fuel+cell&w3=Automotive+fuel+tank&w4=Automotive+c
                    ar+
                    >
                    cover&w5=Electric+car&w6=Alternative+fuels&c=6&s=144&.sig=8THmrIHYqYO
                    DaC
                    > HxUZbBLQ>
                    >
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                    > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
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                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Rex Allison
                    Hi, I also have the dual meter Amps and Volts on my 1996 Force. I just about had a heart attack when I first drove the car because the expanded scale showed
                    Message 9 of 25 , Nov 2, 2005
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Hi,
                      I also have the dual meter Amps and Volts on my 1996
                      Force. I just about had a heart attack when I first
                      drove the car because the expanded scale showed really
                      low numbers (like 156v at recharge and 140V when
                      accelerating), then I checked it with a multimeter at
                      the Anderson Power connector and I found it was way
                      off, like almost 20V. I didn't really check to see how
                      inaccurate it was so I just sort of ignore it for now.
                      My second comment is on the Ahr meter. I wouldn't burn
                      too much mental energy on the -Ahrs reading. The
                      reason is that the Ahr meter has to measure currents
                      from 200A down to tiny loads in the milliamps. Let say
                      the range is 200A to 0.02A that is a 10000:1 range. My
                      point is that this is unreasonable to design an
                      accurate meter for such a broad scale so the tiny
                      parasitic loads get missed by the meter (such as the
                      DC-DC, the expanded scale volt meter and the Ahr meter
                      itself). If you let the car sit for a long time this
                      could add up to a few Ahrs. So when you recharge you
                      get larger -Ahr readings.
                      Rex

                      --- Stephen Taylor <sparrow262@...> wrote:

                      > I don't know about your AH counter, but in my 1997,
                      > two 1999's and Sunrise (none of which have your
                      > optional meters), the AH Counter resets to 0.00
                      > after the charge is complete. So on my cars a -3.0
                      > AH counter reading can be seen, but only while the
                      > charger is actually charging. After the charge
                      > while the car is on a float charge the AH meter will
                      > slowly become negative again, but it would take days
                      > for it to reach -3.0 again.
                      >
                      > Since you mention it is hard to read the actual
                      > voltage on the optional meter maybe the reading your
                      > getting isn't accurate. If you wanted you could
                      > pull the big Grey Anderson Connector under the front
                      > hood and check the voltage at that point with a
                      > multimeter. You could also check the voltage at the
                      > Red Anderson Connector that attaches to the charger
                      > in the trunk, but it may be buried under styrofoam.
                      >
                      >
                      > It would be helpful for both you and Lisa to check
                      > the labels on your controller and charger to see
                      > that they both say they are programmed for a 156
                      > volt pack. The controller is upfront on the
                      > driver's side on top of the battery box and the
                      > label, if Solectria was consistent with their
                      > placement, is on the left side of the controller
                      > when looking at it from the front of the car.
                      >
                      > If you have an NLG4 charger (essentially a black
                      > cube with a fan and heat sink on top) then you could
                      > go to the Brusa site and download the monlog
                      > software that would allow you to monitor the charger
                      > while it is charging with a PC.
                      >
                      > Stephen Taylor
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > lktaku <lktaku@...> wrote:
                      > Noel,
                      >
                      > I read the same thing too. Also, Solectria (Azure)
                      > sent me the Word
                      > document for the 96 manuals which I could post as a
                      > file, if you'd
                      > like.
                      >
                      > Lisa
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "Noel P.
                      > Luneau" <nluneau@p...>
                      > wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Hi Stephen,
                      > >
                      > > I have the optional Dual Ammeter/Voltmeter
                      > installed. When I
                      > mentioned
                      > > that the voltage is at 165v, it's an extrapolation
                      > because of the
                      > small
                      > > scale. Today the voltage is over 156v.
                      > >
                      > > I've been reading the Owner's Manual and it
                      > mentions the following:
                      > > "Under normal conditions, the charger will
                      > overcharge the batteries
                      > > slightly, so the Amp-Hour Meter will read between
                      > 00.00 and -05.00
                      > when
                      > > the charging is complete. This is due to an
                      > inefficiency of
                      > charging
                      > > and is normal..."
                      > >
                      > > I was thinking of scanning the manual to a PDF
                      > file. Would anyone
                      > be
                      > > interested in a copy?
                      > >
                      > > Thanks,
                      > >
                      > > Noel L
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > ________________________________
                      > >
                      > > From: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                      > [mailto:solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com]
                      > > On Behalf Of Stephen Taylor
                      > > Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 7:16 AM
                      > > To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                      > > Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] The Range Saga
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Still got to ask what you are using to measure the
                      > voltage? If a
                      > > multimeter where are you measuring it from? What
                      > kind of charger
                      > do you
                      > > have? Have you looked on any of the labels on the
                      > charger or
                      > controller
                      > > to see what they say the voltages are?
                      > >
                      > > I'm no expert, but with a negative number of -3 on
                      > the AH Counter,
                      > it is
                      > > either still charging, just finished within the
                      > last say 30
                      > seconds or
                      > > has been sitting on a float charge for quite
                      > sometime. Either way
                      > if
                      > > you have a 156 volt car the voltage should be over
                      > 165 volts.
                      > >
                      > > Stephen Taylor
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > ---------------------------------
                      > > Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in
                      > one click.
                      > >
                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                      > removed]
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > SPONSORED LINKS
                      > > Automotive car part
                      > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
                      > t=ms&k=Automotive+car+part&w1=Automotive+c
                      > >
                      >
                      ar+part&w2=Automotive+fuel+cell&w3=Automotive+fuel+tank&w4=Automotive
                      > +ca
                      > >
                      >
                      r+cover&w5=Electric+car&w6=Alternative+fuels&c=6&s=144&.sig=uzSFHwzw1
                      > Vj0
                      > > lVmz25vKiA> Automotive fuel cell
                      > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
                      > t=ms&k=Automotive+fuel+cell&w1=Automotive+
                      > >
                      >
                      car+part&w2=Automotive+fuel+cell&w3=Automotive+fuel+tank&w4=Automotiv
                      > e+c
                      > >
                      >
                      ar+cover&w5=Electric+car&w6=Alternative+fuels&c=6&s=144&.sig=sICtIYFW
                      > NdP
                      > > a3ILzRD8NgA> Automotive fuel tank
                      > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
                      > t=ms&k=Automotive+fuel+tank&w1=Automotive+
                      > >
                      >
                      car+part&w2=Automotive+fuel+cell&w3=Automotive+fuel+tank&w4=Automotiv
                      > e+c
                      > >
                      >
                      ar+cover&w5=Electric+car&w6=Alternative+fuels&c=6&s=144&.sig=RdKoL-
                      > Vctqe
                      > > eh6L1sc81TQ>
                      > > Automotive car cover
                      > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
                      > t=ms&k=Automotive+car+cover&w1=Automotive+
                      > >
                      >
                      car+part&w2=Automotive+fuel+cell&w3=Automotive+fuel+tank&w4=Automotiv
                      > e+c
                      > >
                      >
                      ar+cover&w5=Electric+car&w6=Alternative+fuels&c=6&s=144&.sig=7eFCCbRQ
                      > bYr
                      > > 9kNQ9SaOsjQ> Electric car
                      > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
                      > t=ms&k=Electric+car&w1=Automotive+car+part
                      > >
                      >
                      &w2=Automotive+fuel+cell&w3=Automotive+fuel+tank&w4=Automotive+car+co
                      > ver
                      > >
                      >
                      &w5=Electric+car&w6=Alternative+fuels&c=6&s=144&.sig=DrObmN56c2Pqs67E
                      > MgB
                      > > 3RA> Alternative fuels
                      > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
                      > t=ms&k=Alternative+fuels&w1=Automotive+car
                      > >
                      >
                      +part&w2=Automotive+fuel+cell&w3=Automotive+fuel+tank&w4=Automotive+c
                      > ar+
                      > >
                      >
                      cover&w5=Electric+car&w6=Alternative+fuels&c=6&s=144&.sig=8THmrIHYqYO
                      > DaC
                      > > HxUZbBLQ>
                      > >
                      > > ________________________________
                      > >
                      > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > * Visit your group "solectria_ev
                      > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/solectria_ev> " on
                      > the
                      === message truncated ===





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                    • Stephen Taylor
                      Got the Sunrise from Evionyx last Spring. They had bought it to experiment with their Nickel Zinc batteries they were developing. Since the Nickel Zinc
                      Message 10 of 25 , Nov 2, 2005
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Got the Sunrise from Evionyx last Spring. They had bought it to experiment with their Nickel Zinc batteries they were developing. Since the Nickel Zinc batteries needed constant attention and because the batteries in the Sunrise go in a long tunnel down the middle of the car where you can't get at them easily, the Sunrise wasn't the car they needed for their tests. It sat in their warehouse until they needed to move and thus sell the car.

                        Most of the info you want is in the photo album. The car drives pretty much like a Force although the ride is noticeably smoother and the car is peppier making it a much better highway cruiser. The car really rolls with little resistance, they went all out to cut wind resistance. The interior is also bigger partly because of the tunnel running down the middle of the car. The real news won't come until I get my 23 130AH Valence Lithium Batteries in the car, sometime late this winter (March 2006), and can drive 200 to 300 miles on a charge. The downside so far is that there is no documentation on the car, the air conditioning is a joke and the plexiglass side and rear windows need to be replaced. I have also been experiencing controller/motor issues that I am not qualified to diagnos.

                        Solectria only made a few Sunrises and the only other completed car I know of belongs to the former owner of Solectria. The interesting thing, however, is that a body was bought on eBay a couple of months ago by Jerry Dycus. Jerry is working on building and selling his own EV the Freedom EV, a two passenger three wheeler. Anyway his plan is to use the body he bought to make molds of the Sunrise and then start producing those cars in addition to the Freedom EV. They won't be called Sunrise, because he doesn't have the rights to the name. I'm excited about that, because Jerry will be a source of body parts for me in the future.

                        Stephen Taylor


                        "Noel P. Luneau" <nluneau@...> wrote:
                        I just made the connection... The Stephen Taylor with the Sunrise! I
                        just saw your car at http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/655.html
                        <http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/655.html> . Very nice!

                        Ok, can we have the "dirt" on the car, please. Where did you get it,
                        performance, range, impressions, and does it have a brother looking for
                        a home, :)

                        Thanks Stephen,

                        Noel L

                        ________________________________

                        From: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com [mailto:solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com]
                        On Behalf Of Stephen Taylor
                        Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 9:28 AM
                        To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Re: The Range Saga


                        I don't know about your AH counter, but in my 1997, two 1999's and
                        Sunrise (none of which have your optional meters), the AH Counter resets
                        to 0.00 after the charge is complete. So on my cars a -3.0 AH counter
                        reading can be seen, but only while the charger is actually charging.
                        After the charge while the car is on a float charge the AH meter will
                        slowly become negative again, but it would take days for it to reach
                        -3.0 again.

                        Since you mention it is hard to read the actual voltage on the optional
                        meter maybe the reading your getting isn't accurate. If you wanted you
                        could pull the big Grey Anderson Connector under the front hood and
                        check the voltage at that point with a multimeter. You could also check
                        the voltage at the Red Anderson Connector that attaches to the charger
                        in the trunk, but it may be buried under styrofoam.

                        It would be helpful for both you and Lisa to check the labels on your
                        controller and charger to see that they both say they are programmed for
                        a 156 volt pack. The controller is upfront on the driver's side on top
                        of the battery box and the label, if Solectria was consistent with their
                        placement, is on the left side of the controller when looking at it from
                        the front of the car.

                        If you have an NLG4 charger (essentially a black cube with a fan and
                        heat sink on top) then you could go to the Brusa site and download the
                        monlog software that would allow you to monitor the charger while it is
                        charging with a PC.

                        Stephen Taylor



                        lktaku <lktaku@...> wrote:
                        Noel,

                        I read the same thing too. Also, Solectria (Azure) sent me the Word
                        document for the 96 manuals which I could post as a file, if you'd
                        like.

                        Lisa


                        --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "Noel P. Luneau" <nluneau@p...>
                        wrote:
                        >
                        > Hi Stephen,
                        >
                        > I have the optional Dual Ammeter/Voltmeter installed. When I
                        mentioned
                        > that the voltage is at 165v, it's an extrapolation because of the
                        small
                        > scale. Today the voltage is over 156v.
                        >
                        > I've been reading the Owner's Manual and it mentions the following:
                        > "Under normal conditions, the charger will overcharge the batteries
                        > slightly, so the Amp-Hour Meter will read between 00.00 and -05.00
                        when
                        > the charging is complete. This is due to an inefficiency of
                        charging
                        > and is normal..."
                        >
                        > I was thinking of scanning the manual to a PDF file. Would anyone
                        be
                        > interested in a copy?
                        >
                        > Thanks,
                        >
                        > Noel L
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ________________________________
                        >
                        > From: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                        [mailto:solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com]
                        > On Behalf Of Stephen Taylor
                        > Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 7:16 AM
                        > To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                        > Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] The Range Saga
                        >
                        >
                        > Still got to ask what you are using to measure the voltage? If a
                        > multimeter where are you measuring it from? What kind of charger
                        do you
                        > have? Have you looked on any of the labels on the charger or
                        controller
                        > to see what they say the voltages are?
                        >
                        > I'm no expert, but with a negative number of -3 on the AH Counter,
                        it is
                        > either still charging, just finished within the last say 30
                        seconds or
                        > has been sitting on a float charge for quite sometime. Either way
                        if
                        > you have a 156 volt car the voltage should be over 165 volts.
                        >
                        > Stephen Taylor
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ---------------------------------
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                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Stephen Taylor
                        Rex I was hoping somebody would come up with a similar experience to say those volt reading were wrong. Let s hope when they check the voltages with a
                        Message 11 of 25 , Nov 2, 2005
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Rex

                          I was hoping somebody would come up with a similar experience to say those volt reading were wrong. Let's hope when they check the voltages with a multimeter they find the same 20 volt difference.

                          Stephen Taylor



                          Rex Allison <ev64bug@...> wrote:
                          Hi,
                          I also have the dual meter Amps and Volts on my 1996
                          Force. I just about had a heart attack when I first
                          drove the car because the expanded scale showed really
                          low numbers (like 156v at recharge and 140V when
                          accelerating), then I checked it with a multimeter at
                          the Anderson Power connector and I found it was way
                          off, like almost 20V. I didn't really check to see how
                          inaccurate it was so I just sort of ignore it for now.




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                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Noel P. Luneau
                          Going to check mine tonight ... From: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com [mailto:solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Taylor Sent: Wednesday, November
                          Message 12 of 25 , Nov 2, 2005
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Going to check mine tonight

                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com [mailto:solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com]
                            On Behalf Of Stephen Taylor
                            Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 11:47 AM
                            To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Re: The Range Saga

                            Rex

                            I was hoping somebody would come up with a similar experience to say
                            those volt reading were wrong. Let's hope when they check the voltages
                            with a multimeter they find the same 20 volt difference.

                            Stephen Taylor



                            Rex Allison <ev64bug@...> wrote:
                            Hi,
                            I also have the dual meter Amps and Volts on my 1996 Force. I just about
                            had a heart attack when I first drove the car because the expanded scale
                            showed really low numbers (like 156v at recharge and 140V when
                            accelerating), then I checked it with a multimeter at the Anderson Power
                            connector and I found it was way off, like almost 20V. I didn't really
                            check to see how inaccurate it was so I just sort of ignore it for now.




                            ---------------------------------
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                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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                          • Tom Hudson
                            Very interesting. The voltmeter on my E-10 suffered a similar failure. My batteries were getting old and I was expecting to see a voltage drop under load, and
                            Message 13 of 25 , Nov 3, 2005
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Very interesting. The voltmeter on my E-10 suffered a similar failure.
                              My batteries were getting old and I was expecting to see a voltage drop
                              under load, and the voltmeter showed it dropping to around 115V under
                              load, so I started the process of getting new batteries. I got the new
                              ones in there and they ALSO read low voltage. I stuck my voltmeter on
                              the meter's terminals and got a much higher reading. Apparently, these
                              expanded-range voltmeters have a diode or something in there that can go
                              bad and cause this type of failure.

                              Were my batteries really bad? Probably not! I'm using the PowerCheq
                              equalizers and I expected longer life out of them, I should have double
                              checked but never had any reason to expect that voltmeber to be bad!

                              -Tom

                              Stephen Taylor wrote:

                              >Rex
                              >
                              >I was hoping somebody would come up with a similar experience to say those volt reading were wrong. Let's hope when they check the voltages with a multimeter they find the same 20 volt difference.
                              >
                              >Stephen Taylor
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >

                              --
                              Thomas Hudson
                              http://portdistrict5.org -- 5th District Aldermanic Website
                              http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power & More
                              http://portgardenclub.org -- Port Washington Garden Club
                              http://portlightstation.org -- Light Station Restoration
                              http://klanky.com -- Animation Projects
                            • Noel P. Luneau
                              Very good info... I went around the block yesterday... 1.5 Ah used. That was in Power mode with a lead foot. Maybe nothing is wrong with my batteries... it s
                              Message 14 of 25 , Nov 3, 2005
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Very good info... I went around the block yesterday... 1.5 Ah used.
                                That was in Power mode with a lead foot.

                                Maybe nothing is wrong with my batteries... it's just me :)

                                Noel L

                                ________________________________

                                From: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com [mailto:solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com]
                                On Behalf Of Tom Hudson
                                Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 7:09 AM
                                To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Re: The Range Saga


                                Very interesting. The voltmeter on my E-10 suffered a similar failure.

                                My batteries were getting old and I was expecting to see a voltage drop
                                under load, and the voltmeter showed it dropping to around 115V under
                                load, so I started the process of getting new batteries. I got the new
                                ones in there and they ALSO read low voltage. I stuck my voltmeter on
                                the meter's terminals and got a much higher reading. Apparently, these
                                expanded-range voltmeters have a diode or something in there that can go

                                bad and cause this type of failure.

                                Were my batteries really bad? Probably not! I'm using the PowerCheq
                                equalizers and I expected longer life out of them, I should have double
                                checked but never had any reason to expect that voltmeber to be bad!

                                -Tom

                                Stephen Taylor wrote:

                                >Rex
                                >
                                >I was hoping somebody would come up with a similar experience to say
                                those volt reading were wrong. Let's hope when they check the voltages
                                with a multimeter they find the same 20 volt difference.
                                >
                                >Stephen Taylor
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >

                                --
                                Thomas Hudson
                                http://portdistrict5.org -- 5th District Aldermanic Website
                                http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power & More
                                http://portgardenclub.org -- Port Washington Garden Club
                                http://portlightstation.org -- Light Station Restoration
                                http://klanky.com -- Animation Projects




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                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Ed Garcia
                                ... Are these still available? My query to the company whent unanswered. Where did you get them? Ed Garcia Tom Hudson wrote: Very
                                Message 15 of 25 , Nov 3, 2005
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  >> I'm using the PowerCheq equalizers



                                  Are these still available? My query to the company whent unanswered. Where did you get them?



                                  Ed Garcia


                                  Tom Hudson <tomhudson@...> wrote:
                                  Very interesting. The voltmeter on my E-10 suffered a similar failure.
                                  My batteries were getting old and I was expecting to see a voltage drop
                                  under load, and the voltmeter showed it dropping to around 115V under
                                  load, so I started the process of getting new batteries. I got the new
                                  ones in there and they ALSO read low voltage. I stuck my voltmeter on
                                  the meter's terminals and got a much higher reading. Apparently, these
                                  expanded-range voltmeters have a diode or something in there that can go
                                  bad and cause this type of failure.

                                  Were my batteries really bad? Probably not! I'm using the PowerCheq
                                  equalizers and I expected longer life out of them, I should have double
                                  checked but never had any reason to expect that voltmeber to be bad!

                                  -Tom

                                  Stephen Taylor wrote:

                                  >Rex
                                  >
                                  >I was hoping somebody would come up with a similar experience to say those volt reading were wrong. Let's hope when they check the voltages with a multimeter they find the same 20 volt difference.
                                  >
                                  >Stephen Taylor
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >

                                  --
                                  Thomas Hudson
                                  http://portdistrict5.org -- 5th District Aldermanic Website
                                  http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power & More
                                  http://portgardenclub.org -- Port Washington Garden Club
                                  http://portlightstation.org -- Light Station Restoration
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                                • Ed Garcia
                                  I just drove my normal route with the selecter on Power and regen on. I drove as I would a normal gas car (ie keeping up with traffic on the freeway) I got
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Nov 3, 2005
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    I just drove my normal route with the selecter on "Power" and regen
                                    on. I drove as I would a normal gas car (ie keeping up with traffic
                                    on the freeway) I got 1.4 AH/mile. I normally drive on "Range"
                                    setting with the brief exception of merging onto the freeway. I
                                    then get 1.2 AH/mile. This is a 19 mile trip with 2.4 on surface
                                    streets and the rest on the freeway.

                                    Ed Garcia

                                    --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "Noel P. Luneau" <nluneau@p...>
                                    wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Very good info... I went around the block yesterday... 1.5 Ah used.
                                    > That was in Power mode with a lead foot.
                                    >
                                    > Maybe nothing is wrong with my batteries... it's just me :)
                                    >
                                    > Noel L
                                    >
                                    > ________________________________
                                    >
                                    > From: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                                    [mailto:solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com]
                                    > On Behalf Of Tom Hudson
                                    > Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 7:09 AM
                                    > To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                                    > Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Re: The Range Saga
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Very interesting. The voltmeter on my E-10 suffered a similar
                                    failure.
                                    >
                                    > My batteries were getting old and I was expecting to see a voltage
                                    drop
                                    > under load, and the voltmeter showed it dropping to around 115V
                                    under
                                    > load, so I started the process of getting new batteries. I got
                                    the new
                                    > ones in there and they ALSO read low voltage. I stuck my
                                    voltmeter on
                                    > the meter's terminals and got a much higher reading. Apparently,
                                    these
                                    > expanded-range voltmeters have a diode or something in there that
                                    can go
                                    >
                                    > bad and cause this type of failure.
                                    >
                                    > Were my batteries really bad? Probably not! I'm using the
                                    PowerCheq
                                    > equalizers and I expected longer life out of them, I should have
                                    double
                                    > checked but never had any reason to expect that voltmeber to be
                                    bad!
                                    >
                                    > -Tom
                                    >
                                    > Stephen Taylor wrote:
                                    >
                                    > >Rex
                                    > >
                                    > >I was hoping somebody would come up with a similar experience to
                                    say
                                    > those volt reading were wrong. Let's hope when they check the
                                    voltages
                                    > with a multimeter they find the same 20 volt difference.
                                    > >
                                    > >Stephen Taylor
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    >
                                    > --
                                    > Thomas Hudson
                                    > http://portdistrict5.org -- 5th District Aldermanic Website
                                    > http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power & More
                                    > http://portgardenclub.org -- Port Washington Garden Club
                                    > http://portlightstation.org -- Light Station Restoration
                                    > http://klanky.com -- Animation Projects
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
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                                    >
                                  • Stephen Taylor
                                    I bought a batch for my Doran directly from PowerCheq about 4 months ago. The new ones are improved with replaceable fuses so you can t as easily destroy
                                    Message 17 of 25 , Nov 3, 2005
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      I bought a batch for my Doran directly from PowerCheq about 4 months ago. The new ones are improved with replaceable fuses so you can't as easily destroy them.

                                      Stephen Taylor

                                      Ed Garcia <edward_c_garcia@...> wrote:
                                      >> I'm using the PowerCheq equalizers



                                      Are these still available? My query to the company whent unanswered. Where did you get them?



                                      Ed Garcia



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                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • Tom Hudson
                                      Last time I checked, they were. I bought them directly from the company -- http://www.powerdesigners.com/powercheq.htm -- But that was several years ago; I
                                      Message 18 of 25 , Nov 3, 2005
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Last time I checked, they were. I bought them directly from the company
                                        -- http://www.powerdesigners.com/powercheq.htm -- But that was several
                                        years ago; I don't know how responsive they are these days. If I were
                                        you, I'd try calling them on the phone -- With all the spam these days,
                                        I consider myself lucky any of my emails get through! Just today I sent
                                        two emails to a client and both were filtered out by their Norton
                                        AntiSpam! Annoying.

                                        -Tom


                                        Ed Garcia wrote:

                                        >
                                        >Are these still available? My query to the company whent unanswered. Where did you get them?
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        --
                                        Thomas Hudson
                                        http://portdistrict5.org -- 5th District Aldermanic Website
                                        http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power & More
                                        http://portgardenclub.org -- Port Washington Garden Club
                                        http://portlightstation.org -- Light Station Restoration
                                        http://klanky.com -- Animation Projects
                                      • EVdave
                                        i got in touch with them, they directed me to evsource.com.... they want about $55 apiece for them.... do they make that much of a difference? db ... From: Tom
                                        Message 19 of 25 , Nov 4, 2005
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          i got in touch with them, they directed me to evsource.com.... they want about $55 apiece for them.... do they make that much of a difference?

                                          db
                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                          From: Tom Hudson
                                          To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                                          Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 8:24 PM
                                          Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Re: The Range Saga


                                          Last time I checked, they were. I bought them directly from the company
                                          -- http://www.powerdesigners.com/powercheq.htm -- But that was several
                                          years ago; I don't know how responsive they are these days. If I were
                                          you, I'd try calling them on the phone -- With all the spam these days,
                                          I consider myself lucky any of my emails get through! Just today I sent
                                          two emails to a client and both were filtered out by their Norton
                                          AntiSpam! Annoying.

                                          -Tom


                                          Ed Garcia wrote:

                                          >
                                          >Are these still available? My query to the company whent unanswered. Where did you get them?
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          --
                                          Thomas Hudson
                                          http://portdistrict5.org -- 5th District Aldermanic Website
                                          http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power & More
                                          http://portgardenclub.org -- Port Washington Garden Club
                                          http://portlightstation.org -- Light Station Restoration
                                          http://klanky.com -- Animation Projects




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                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • Noel P. Luneau
                                          Today I drove to the DMV to register the force ($770, ouch), CSAA for insurance, a haircut ,and home. I used 30.5 Ah and went 16.2 miles. Coming up the final
                                          Message 20 of 25 , Nov 4, 2005
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            Today I drove to the DMV to register the force ($770, ouch), CSAA for
                                            insurance, a haircut ,and home.

                                            I used 30.5 Ah and went 16.2 miles. Coming up the final hill to the
                                            house under pedal buried 'Power' mode the voltage was at 140 indicated,
                                            the amp draw was 100 indicated, and the speed was 25 mph.

                                            What do you all think?

                                            Noel

                                            ________________________________

                                            From: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com [mailto:solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com]
                                            On Behalf Of Noel P. Luneau
                                            Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 7:23 AM
                                            To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                                            Subject: RE: [solectria_ev] Re: The Range Saga


                                            Very good info... I went around the block yesterday... 1.5 Ah used.
                                            That was in Power mode with a lead foot.

                                            Maybe nothing is wrong with my batteries... it's just me :)

                                            Noel L

                                            ________________________________

                                            From: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com [mailto:solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com]
                                            On Behalf Of Tom Hudson
                                            Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 7:09 AM
                                            To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                                            Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Re: The Range Saga


                                            Very interesting. The voltmeter on my E-10 suffered a similar failure.

                                            My batteries were getting old and I was expecting to see a voltage drop
                                            under load, and the voltmeter showed it dropping to around 115V under
                                            load, so I started the process of getting new batteries. I got the new
                                            ones in there and they ALSO read low voltage. I stuck my voltmeter on
                                            the meter's terminals and got a much higher reading. Apparently, these
                                            expanded-range voltmeters have a diode or something in there that can go

                                            bad and cause this type of failure.

                                            Were my batteries really bad? Probably not! I'm using the PowerCheq
                                            equalizers and I expected longer life out of them, I should have double
                                            checked but never had any reason to expect that voltmeber to be bad!

                                            -Tom

                                            Stephen Taylor wrote:

                                            >Rex
                                            >
                                            >I was hoping somebody would come up with a similar experience to say
                                            those volt reading were wrong. Let's hope when they check the voltages
                                            with a multimeter they find the same 20 volt difference.
                                            >
                                            >Stephen Taylor
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >

                                            --
                                            Thomas Hudson
                                            http://portdistrict5.org -- 5th District Aldermanic Website
                                            http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power & More
                                            http://portgardenclub.org -- Port Washington Garden Club
                                            http://portlightstation.org -- Light Station Restoration
                                            http://klanky.com -- Animation Projects




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                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • Ken Olum
                                            From: Noel P. Luneau Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2005 23:04:50 -0800 I used 30.5 Ah and went 16.2 miles. Coming up the final hill to the house
                                            Message 21 of 25 , Nov 5, 2005
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              From: "Noel P. Luneau" <nluneau@...>
                                              Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2005 23:04:50 -0800

                                              I used 30.5 Ah and went 16.2 miles. Coming up the final hill to the
                                              house under pedal buried 'Power' mode the voltage was at 140 indicated,
                                              the amp draw was 100 indicated, and the speed was 25 mph.

                                              What do you all think?

                                              Either your batteries are not very good or your charger is not
                                              charging them fully. Did you ever determine for certain whether you
                                              have 13 or 12 batteries?

                                              Ken
                                            • Noel P. Luneau
                                              Today is 220V and check the batteries day. Thanks Ken. ________________________________ From: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                                              Message 22 of 25 , Nov 5, 2005
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                Today is 220V and check the batteries day.

                                                Thanks Ken.

                                                ________________________________

                                                From: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com [mailto:solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com]
                                                On Behalf Of Ken Olum
                                                Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 6:24 AM
                                                To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                                                Cc: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                                                Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Re: The Range Saga


                                                From: "Noel P. Luneau" <nluneau@...>
                                                Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2005 23:04:50 -0800

                                                I used 30.5 Ah and went 16.2 miles. Coming up the final hill to the
                                                house under pedal buried 'Power' mode the voltage was at 140
                                                indicated,
                                                the amp draw was 100 indicated, and the speed was 25 mph.

                                                What do you all think?

                                                Either your batteries are not very good or your charger is not
                                                charging them fully. Did you ever determine for certain whether you
                                                have 13 or 12 batteries?

                                                Ken



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                                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              • Ed Garcia
                                                If your car is a 156v system this is too high. That means you are getting 1.88AH/mile. You should be getting 1 - 1.5AH/m. This would translate to 156 - 234
                                                Message 23 of 25 , Nov 5, 2005
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  If your car is a 156v system this is too high. That means you are getting 1.88AH/mile. You should be getting 1 - 1.5AH/m. This would translate to 156 - 234 WH/mile while you are burning 293 WH/mi. If you have a 144v system you are burning 270 WH/mi, which is still high. If your battery is down to 140v under full load while the AH meter reads less then 35AH, the Solectria manual says you need to do a battery discharge test. You have one or more batteries that need attention.

                                                  Ed Garcia

                                                  "Noel P. Luneau" <nluneau@...> wrote:
                                                  Today I drove to the DMV to register the force ($770, ouch), CSAA for
                                                  insurance, a haircut ,and home.

                                                  I used 30.5 Ah and went 16.2 miles. Coming up the final hill to the
                                                  house under pedal buried 'Power' mode the voltage was at 140 indicated,
                                                  the amp draw was 100 indicated, and the speed was 25 mph.

                                                  What do you all think?

                                                  Noel

                                                  ________________________________

                                                  From: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com [mailto:solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com]
                                                  On Behalf Of Noel P. Luneau
                                                  Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 7:23 AM
                                                  To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Subject: RE: [solectria_ev] Re: The Range Saga


                                                  Very good info... I went around the block yesterday... 1.5 Ah used.
                                                  That was in Power mode with a lead foot.

                                                  Maybe nothing is wrong with my batteries... it's just me :)

                                                  Noel L

                                                  ________________________________

                                                  From: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com [mailto:solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com]
                                                  On Behalf Of Tom Hudson
                                                  Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 7:09 AM
                                                  To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Re: The Range Saga


                                                  Very interesting. The voltmeter on my E-10 suffered a similar failure.

                                                  My batteries were getting old and I was expecting to see a voltage drop
                                                  under load, and the voltmeter showed it dropping to around 115V under
                                                  load, so I started the process of getting new batteries. I got the new
                                                  ones in there and they ALSO read low voltage. I stuck my voltmeter on
                                                  the meter's terminals and got a much higher reading. Apparently, these
                                                  expanded-range voltmeters have a diode or something in there that can go

                                                  bad and cause this type of failure.

                                                  Were my batteries really bad? Probably not! I'm using the PowerCheq
                                                  equalizers and I expected longer life out of them, I should have double
                                                  checked but never had any reason to expect that voltmeber to be bad!

                                                  -Tom

                                                  Stephen Taylor wrote:

                                                  >Rex
                                                  >
                                                  >I was hoping somebody would come up with a similar experience to say
                                                  those volt reading were wrong. Let's hope when they check the voltages
                                                  with a multimeter they find the same 20 volt difference.
                                                  >
                                                  >Stephen Taylor
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >

                                                  --
                                                  Thomas Hudson
                                                  http://portdistrict5.org -- 5th District Aldermanic Website
                                                  http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power & More
                                                  http://portgardenclub.org -- Port Washington Garden Club
                                                  http://portlightstation.org -- Light Station Restoration
                                                  http://klanky.com -- Animation Projects




                                                  ________________________________

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                                                  <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/solectria_ev> " on the web.

                                                  * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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                                                  ________________________________




                                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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                                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                                                  ---------------------------------
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                                                  Visit your group "solectria_ev" on the web.

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                                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                • Noel P. Luneau
                                                  Thanks for the detailed info Ed. I have an abbreviated 33 page manual for the Force. Do you have the instructions for the battery discharge test? Thanks, Noel
                                                  Message 24 of 25 , Nov 5, 2005
                                                  • 0 Attachment
                                                    Thanks for the detailed info Ed.

                                                    I have an abbreviated 33 page manual for the Force. Do you have the
                                                    instructions for the battery discharge test?

                                                    Thanks,

                                                    Noel L

                                                    ________________________________

                                                    From: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com [mailto:solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com]
                                                    On Behalf Of Ed Garcia
                                                    Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 5:34 PM
                                                    To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Subject: RE: [solectria_ev] Re: The Range Saga


                                                    If your car is a 156v system this is too high. That means you are
                                                    getting 1.88AH/mile. You should be getting 1 - 1.5AH/m. This would
                                                    translate to 156 - 234 WH/mile while you are burning 293 WH/mi. If you
                                                    have a 144v system you are burning 270 WH/mi, which is still high. If
                                                    your battery is down to 140v under full load while the AH meter reads
                                                    less then 35AH, the Solectria manual says you need to do a battery
                                                    discharge test. You have one or more batteries that need attention.

                                                    Ed Garcia

                                                    "Noel P. Luneau" <nluneau@...> wrote:
                                                    Today I drove to the DMV to register the force ($770, ouch), CSAA for
                                                    insurance, a haircut ,and home.

                                                    I used 30.5 Ah and went 16.2 miles. Coming up the final hill to the
                                                    house under pedal buried 'Power' mode the voltage was at 140 indicated,
                                                    the amp draw was 100 indicated, and the speed was 25 mph.

                                                    What do you all think?

                                                    Noel

                                                    ________________________________

                                                    From: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com [mailto:solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com]
                                                    On Behalf Of Noel P. Luneau
                                                    Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 7:23 AM
                                                    To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Subject: RE: [solectria_ev] Re: The Range Saga


                                                    Very good info... I went around the block yesterday... 1.5 Ah used.
                                                    That was in Power mode with a lead foot.

                                                    Maybe nothing is wrong with my batteries... it's just me :)

                                                    Noel L

                                                    ________________________________

                                                    From: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com [mailto:solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com]
                                                    On Behalf Of Tom Hudson
                                                    Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 7:09 AM
                                                    To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Re: The Range Saga


                                                    Very interesting. The voltmeter on my E-10 suffered a similar failure.

                                                    My batteries were getting old and I was expecting to see a voltage drop
                                                    under load, and the voltmeter showed it dropping to around 115V under
                                                    load, so I started the process of getting new batteries. I got the new
                                                    ones in there and they ALSO read low voltage. I stuck my voltmeter on
                                                    the meter's terminals and got a much higher reading. Apparently, these
                                                    expanded-range voltmeters have a diode or something in there that can go

                                                    bad and cause this type of failure.

                                                    Were my batteries really bad? Probably not! I'm using the PowerCheq
                                                    equalizers and I expected longer life out of them, I should have double
                                                    checked but never had any reason to expect that voltmeber to be bad!

                                                    -Tom

                                                    Stephen Taylor wrote:

                                                    >Rex
                                                    >
                                                    >I was hoping somebody would come up with a similar experience to say
                                                    those volt reading were wrong. Let's hope when they check the voltages
                                                    with a multimeter they find the same 20 volt difference.
                                                    >
                                                    >Stephen Taylor
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >

                                                    --
                                                    Thomas Hudson
                                                    http://portdistrict5.org -- 5th District Aldermanic Website
                                                    http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power & More
                                                    http://portgardenclub.org -- Port Washington Garden Club
                                                    http://portlightstation.org -- Light Station Restoration
                                                    http://klanky.com -- Animation Projects




                                                    ________________________________

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                                                    * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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                                                    ________________________________




                                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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                                                    &w5=Electric+car&w6=Alternative+fuels&c=6&s=144&.sig=DrObmN56c2Pqs67EMgB
                                                    3RA> Alternative fuels
                                                    <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Alternative+fuels&w1=Automotive+car
                                                    +part&w2=Automotive+fuel+cell&w3=Automotive+fuel+tank&w4=Automotive+car+
                                                    cover&w5=Electric+car&w6=Alternative+fuels&c=6&s=144&.sig=8THmrIHYqYODaC
                                                    HxUZbBLQ>

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                                                    SPONSORED LINKS
                                                    Automotive fuel cell
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                                                    fuel+cell&w2=Automotive+fuel+tank&c=2&s=52&.sig=WIZq8PSlKhTsVOR1P4gcrQ>
                                                    Automotive fuel tank
                                                    <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Automotive+fuel+tank&w1=Automotive+
                                                    fuel+cell&w2=Automotive+fuel+tank&c=2&s=52&.sig=Q9LOrpNtiao7jX_lViNrUA>


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