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Re: [solectria_ev] Range Issues

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  • theoldcars@aol.com
    Hello Noel Something is way off. I live in an area with some good hills and driving it like an ICE vehicle my average is around 1.5 Ah per mile. One hill which
    Message 1 of 25 , Oct 31, 2005
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      Hello Noel

      Something is way off. I live in an area with some good hills and driving it
      like an ICE vehicle my average is around 1.5 Ah per mile. One hill which is a
      half a mile takes 3.5 to get to the top but on the way back I can recover one
      full Ah.

      I have found on flat level ground if speeds are 35 or less it uses just at
      or less than 1 Ah per mile. Of course the more you stop and start this will
      change.

      My Battery pack is the original 8 years old and has almost 18,000 miles. The
      batteries will not provide more than 25 Ah but depending how one drives the
      range can be in my area between 15 to 20 miles with hills. This is with
      nothing else using power or cold weather and driving it like a normal vehicle.

      Don Blazer



      In a message dated 10/31/2005 5:02:57 PM Pacific Standard Time,
      nluneau@... writes:

      I went 10 miles yesterday and used 30Ah. I was at 15 mph with the hazards
      on going up our hill.

      Not good.

      Noel L





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Ken Olum
      From: Noel P. Luneau Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 17:37:13 -0800 It shows 160 (156) volts after a charge. You have a 156V pack that shows
      Message 2 of 25 , Nov 1, 2005
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        From: "Noel P. Luneau" <nluneau@...>
        Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 17:37:13 -0800

        It shows 160 (156) volts after a charge.

        You have a 156V pack that shows 160V after charging? This is
        definitely no good. It should be at least 165V. (Do you have an
        accurate voltmeter?) What is the maximum voltage that you see during
        the charging process? It should be about 183. If the voltage does
        not go up to something like this during charging, then your charger is
        no good. If it does go above 180, but then declines to 160, then your
        batteries are no good. Probably it is the batteries.

        Ken
      • Jim Coate
        Ackkkkk!!!!! That makes about 8.5 volts/battery. You don t want to pull a 12-volt lead acid battery below about 10.5 volts - below this there is significant
        Message 3 of 25 , Nov 1, 2005
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          Ackkkkk!!!!! That makes about 8.5 volts/battery. You don't want to pull
          a 12-volt lead acid battery below about 10.5 volts - below this there is
          significant chance of reversing a cell.

          So that means the pack shouldn't go below 136 volts under load... if it
          does, go easier on the pedal. And if it still does it is time for a
          recharge.

          Come to think of it you said it went to 160 volts fully charged. That is
          too low. I'm not sure what is optimum for these particular batteries but
          I'd expect to see something in the high 180's or 190's at the end of
          charge, while the charger is still running (ie just before the charger
          shuts off). So this would put the resting voltage after charge in the
          170's (?).

          I'd get a good meter and start checking things... total pack voltage and
          individual battery voltages. Perhaps the charger isn't working (fully)?
          Or there are several bad batteries? Driving around at 110 volts is just
          going to murder what is left of the batteries.



          Noel P. Luneau wrote:
          > The voltage goes to 110v or less under load.





          --
          Jim Coate
          1970's Elec-Trak's
          1998 Chevy S-10 NiMH BEV
          1997 Chevy S-10 NGV Bi-Fuel
          http://www.eeevee.com
        • Stephen Taylor
          Assuming you have a Solectria charger in the car and it is plugged in the batteries should be floating at 176.5 volts after sometime has passed from charging
          Message 4 of 25 , Nov 1, 2005
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            Assuming you have a Solectria charger in the car and it is plugged in the batteries should be floating at 176.5 volts after sometime has passed from charging or upwards to 195 volts during the last part of the overcharge.

            Stephen Taylor

            Jim Coate <jbc@...> wrote:
            Ackkkkk!!!!! That makes about 8.5 volts/battery. You don't want to pull
            a 12-volt lead acid battery below about 10.5 volts - below this there is
            significant chance of reversing a cell.

            So that means the pack shouldn't go below 136 volts under load... if it
            does, go easier on the pedal. And if it still does it is time for a
            recharge.

            Come to think of it you said it went to 160 volts fully charged. That is
            too low. I'm not sure what is optimum for these particular batteries but
            I'd expect to see something in the high 180's or 190's at the end of
            charge, while the charger is still running (ie just before the charger
            shuts off). So this would put the resting voltage after charge in the
            170's (?).

            I'd get a good meter and start checking things... total pack voltage and
            individual battery voltages. Perhaps the charger isn't working (fully)?
            Or there are several bad batteries? Driving around at 110 volts is just
            going to murder what is left of the batteries.



            Noel P. Luneau wrote:
            > The voltage goes to 110v or less under load.





            --
            Jim Coate
            1970's Elec-Trak's
            1998 Chevy S-10 NiMH BEV
            1997 Chevy S-10 NGV Bi-Fuel
            http://www.eeevee.com



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          • Stephen Taylor
            I thought the controllers in the cars were programmed to stop running at 140 volts or so, is that not true? I imagined there might be some flex in that
            Message 5 of 25 , Nov 1, 2005
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              I thought the controllers in the cars were programmed to stop running at 140 volts or so, is that not true? I imagined there might be some flex in that number, but it is hard to believe the car would still be running at 110volts.

              Stephen Taylor

              "Noel P. Luneau" <nluneau@...> wrote:
              The voltage goes to 110v or less under load.

              ________________________________

              From: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com [mailto:solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com]
              On Behalf Of Jim Coate
              Sent: Monday, October 31, 2005 5:43 PM
              To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Range Issues


              What is the voltage under load?
              For instance after driving 5 miles and cruising along at 40 mph on the
              flat, what does the voltage do?


              Noel P. Luneau wrote:
              > Hi Jim,
              >
              > It shows 160 (156) volts after a charge.
              >
              > Noel L
              >





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            • Noel P. Luneau
              Hi guys, Thank you for all of your input. I m about to get into the Force to go to BART. I ll record the numbers and let you know exactly what I experience..
              Message 6 of 25 , Nov 1, 2005
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                Hi guys,

                Thank you for all of your input. I'm about to get into the Force to go
                to BART. I'll record the numbers and let you know exactly what I
                experience..

                Thanks,

                Noel

                ________________________________

                From: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com [mailto:solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com]
                On Behalf Of Stephen Taylor
                Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2005 5:12 AM
                To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Range Issues


                Assuming you have a Solectria charger in the car and it is plugged in
                the batteries should be floating at 176.5 volts after sometime has
                passed from charging or upwards to 195 volts during the last part of the
                overcharge.

                Stephen Taylor

                Jim Coate <jbc@...> wrote:
                Ackkkkk!!!!! That makes about 8.5 volts/battery. You don't want to pull
                a 12-volt lead acid battery below about 10.5 volts - below this there is

                significant chance of reversing a cell.

                So that means the pack shouldn't go below 136 volts under load... if it
                does, go easier on the pedal. And if it still does it is time for a
                recharge.

                Come to think of it you said it went to 160 volts fully charged. That is

                too low. I'm not sure what is optimum for these particular batteries but

                I'd expect to see something in the high 180's or 190's at the end of
                charge, while the charger is still running (ie just before the charger
                shuts off). So this would put the resting voltage after charge in the
                170's (?).

                I'd get a good meter and start checking things... total pack voltage and

                individual battery voltages. Perhaps the charger isn't working (fully)?
                Or there are several bad batteries? Driving around at 110 volts is just
                going to murder what is left of the batteries.



                Noel P. Luneau wrote:
                > The voltage goes to 110v or less under load.





                --
                Jim Coate
                1970's Elec-Trak's
                1998 Chevy S-10 NiMH BEV
                1997 Chevy S-10 NGV Bi-Fuel
                http://www.eeevee.com



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              • Noel P. Luneau
                So I open the trunk to unplug my 120V extension cord and I had the three winking red lights. So much for driving it to BART. I replugged it in again at 9:00
                Message 7 of 25 , Nov 1, 2005
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                  So I open the trunk to unplug my 120V extension cord and I had the three
                  winking red lights. So much for driving it to BART.

                  I replugged it in again at 9:00 AM and got home at 5:00 and it's still
                  in the charge cycle. The voltmeter is registering 156v, ammeter 0 and
                  Ah meter at 6 and I hope dropping.

                  I have called the Electrician to put in the 220v circuit.

                  Hopefully, more data on my 3.2 mile drive to BART, tomorrow.

                  Noel L

                  ________________________________

                  From: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com [mailto:solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com]
                  On Behalf Of Stephen Taylor
                  Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2005 5:12 AM
                  To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Range Issues


                  Assuming you have a Solectria charger in the car and it is plugged in
                  the batteries should be floating at 176.5 volts after sometime has
                  passed from charging or upwards to 195 volts during the last part of the
                  overcharge.

                  Stephen Taylor

                  Jim Coate <jbc@...> wrote:
                  Ackkkkk!!!!! That makes about 8.5 volts/battery. You don't want to pull
                  a 12-volt lead acid battery below about 10.5 volts - below this there is

                  significant chance of reversing a cell.

                  So that means the pack shouldn't go below 136 volts under load... if it
                  does, go easier on the pedal. And if it still does it is time for a
                  recharge.

                  Come to think of it you said it went to 160 volts fully charged. That is

                  too low. I'm not sure what is optimum for these particular batteries but

                  I'd expect to see something in the high 180's or 190's at the end of
                  charge, while the charger is still running (ie just before the charger
                  shuts off). So this would put the resting voltage after charge in the
                  170's (?).

                  I'd get a good meter and start checking things... total pack voltage and

                  individual battery voltages. Perhaps the charger isn't working (fully)?
                  Or there are several bad batteries? Driving around at 110 volts is just
                  going to murder what is left of the batteries.



                  Noel P. Luneau wrote:
                  > The voltage goes to 110v or less under load.





                  --
                  Jim Coate
                  1970's Elec-Trak's
                  1998 Chevy S-10 NiMH BEV
                  1997 Chevy S-10 NGV Bi-Fuel
                  http://www.eeevee.com



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                • Noel P. Luneau
                  Hi Stephen, I just measured the voltage at the Anderson connector and it measured 170v while the voltmeter measured 160. Interesting. Noel
                  Message 8 of 25 , Nov 13, 2005
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                    Hi Stephen,

                    I just measured the voltage at the Anderson connector and it measured
                    170v while the voltmeter measured 160.

                    Interesting.

                    Noel

                    ________________________________

                    From: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com [mailto:solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com]
                    On Behalf Of Stephen Taylor
                    Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2005 5:12 AM
                    To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Range Issues


                    Assuming you have a Solectria charger in the car and it is plugged in
                    the batteries should be floating at 176.5 volts after sometime has
                    passed from charging or upwards to 195 volts during the last part of the
                    overcharge.

                    Stephen Taylor

                    Jim Coate <jbc@...> wrote:
                    Ackkkkk!!!!! That makes about 8.5 volts/battery. You don't want to pull
                    a 12-volt lead acid battery below about 10.5 volts - below this there is

                    significant chance of reversing a cell.

                    So that means the pack shouldn't go below 136 volts under load... if it
                    does, go easier on the pedal. And if it still does it is time for a
                    recharge.

                    Come to think of it you said it went to 160 volts fully charged. That is

                    too low. I'm not sure what is optimum for these particular batteries but

                    I'd expect to see something in the high 180's or 190's at the end of
                    charge, while the charger is still running (ie just before the charger
                    shuts off). So this would put the resting voltage after charge in the
                    170's (?).

                    I'd get a good meter and start checking things... total pack voltage and

                    individual battery voltages. Perhaps the charger isn't working (fully)?
                    Or there are several bad batteries? Driving around at 110 volts is just
                    going to murder what is left of the batteries.



                    Noel P. Luneau wrote:
                    > The voltage goes to 110v or less under load.





                    --
                    Jim Coate
                    1970's Elec-Trak's
                    1998 Chevy S-10 NiMH BEV
                    1997 Chevy S-10 NGV Bi-Fuel
                    http://www.eeevee.com



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                  • Stephen Taylor
                    That is a good number for fully charged batteries and the car unplugged. I m assuming the car wasn t on a float charge at the time or the voltage would have
                    Message 9 of 25 , Nov 13, 2005
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                      That is a good number for fully charged batteries and the car unplugged. I'm assuming the car wasn't on a float charge at the time or the voltage would have been closer to the 176. Your car does have the Brusa NLG4 charger right? It is a black cube with a heat sink and fan on the top in the trunk.

                      Hate to see that your voltmeter isn't working quite right, but I think most of us don't even have a voltmeter to begin with because it was an option that apparently most orignal buyers didn't order. I wonder if it is consistently 10 volts off or whether that number changes based on load.

                      Can't help you with the motor problem on your AC haven't had to deal with that kind of thing myself, but if it is only a motor I can't imagine you couldn't get it fixed locally.

                      Stephen

                      "Noel P. Luneau" <nluneau@...> wrote:
                      Hi Stephen,

                      I just measured the voltage at the Anderson connector and it measured
                      170v while the voltmeter measured 160.

                      Interesting.

                      Noel

                      ________________________________

                      From: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com [mailto:solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com]
                      On Behalf Of Stephen Taylor
                      Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2005 5:12 AM
                      To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Range Issues


                      Assuming you have a Solectria charger in the car and it is plugged in
                      the batteries should be floating at 176.5 volts after sometime has
                      passed from charging or upwards to 195 volts during the last part of the
                      overcharge.

                      Stephen Taylor


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                    • Noel P. Luneau
                      I tested it at both float and with the NLG4 unplugged. Same voltage of 170. Thanks Stephen, Noel L ________________________________ From:
                      Message 10 of 25 , Nov 13, 2005
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                        I tested it at both float and with the NLG4 unplugged. Same voltage of
                        170.

                        Thanks Stephen,

                        Noel L

                        ________________________________

                        From: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com [mailto:solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com]
                        On Behalf Of Stephen Taylor
                        Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2005 1:57 PM
                        To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: RE: [solectria_ev] Range Issues


                        That is a good number for fully charged batteries and the car unplugged.
                        I'm assuming the car wasn't on a float charge at the time or the voltage
                        would have been closer to the 176. Your car does have the Brusa NLG4
                        charger right? It is a black cube with a heat sink and fan on the top
                        in the trunk.

                        Hate to see that your voltmeter isn't working quite right, but I think
                        most of us don't even have a voltmeter to begin with because it was an
                        option that apparently most orignal buyers didn't order. I wonder if it
                        is consistently 10 volts off or whether that number changes based on
                        load.

                        Can't help you with the motor problem on your AC haven't had to deal
                        with that kind of thing myself, but if it is only a motor I can't
                        imagine you couldn't get it fixed locally.

                        Stephen

                        "Noel P. Luneau" <nluneau@...> wrote:
                        Hi Stephen,

                        I just measured the voltage at the Anderson connector and it measured
                        170v while the voltmeter measured 160.

                        Interesting.

                        Noel

                        ________________________________

                        From: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com [mailto:solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com]
                        On Behalf Of Stephen Taylor
                        Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2005 5:12 AM
                        To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Range Issues


                        Assuming you have a Solectria charger in the car and it is plugged in
                        the batteries should be floating at 176.5 volts after sometime has
                        passed from charging or upwards to 195 volts during the last part of the
                        overcharge.

                        Stephen Taylor


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                      • Stephen Taylor
                        That would seem to imply your charger isn t providing a float charge. Probably not a big deal, but have you tried using the Brusa software to check what the
                        Message 11 of 25 , Nov 13, 2005
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                          That would seem to imply your charger isn't providing a float charge. Probably not a big deal, but have you tried using the Brusa software to check what the charger thinks the voltage is and what it is doing. To get the DOS program go to http://www.brusa.biz/e_software.htm . The monlog program is what you want, I don't use the program much on my lead acid car, but I use it all the time on the NiCD car and it provides some good info.

                          Stephen

                          "Noel P. Luneau" <nluneau@...> wrote:
                          I tested it at both float and with the NLG4 unplugged. Same voltage of
                          170.

                          Thanks Stephen,

                          Noel L

                          ________________________________

                          From: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com [mailto:solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com]
                          On Behalf Of Stephen Taylor
                          Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2005 1:57 PM
                          To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: RE: [solectria_ev] Range Issues


                          That is a good number for fully charged batteries and the car unplugged.
                          I'm assuming the car wasn't on a float charge at the time or the voltage
                          would have been closer to the 176. Your car does have the Brusa NLG4
                          charger right? It is a black cube with a heat sink and fan on the top
                          in the trunk.

                          Hate to see that your voltmeter isn't working quite right, but I think
                          most of us don't even have a voltmeter to begin with because it was an
                          option that apparently most orignal buyers didn't order. I wonder if it
                          is consistently 10 volts off or whether that number changes based on
                          load.

                          Can't help you with the motor problem on your AC haven't had to deal
                          with that kind of thing myself, but if it is only a motor I can't
                          imagine you couldn't get it fixed locally.

                          Stephen

                          "Noel P. Luneau" <nluneau@...> wrote:
                          Hi Stephen,

                          I just measured the voltage at the Anderson connector and it measured
                          170v while the voltmeter measured 160.

                          Interesting.

                          Noel

                          ________________________________

                          From: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com [mailto:solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com]
                          On Behalf Of Stephen Taylor
                          Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2005 5:12 AM
                          To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Range Issues


                          Assuming you have a Solectria charger in the car and it is plugged in
                          the batteries should be floating at 176.5 volts after sometime has
                          passed from charging or upwards to 195 volts during the last part of the
                          overcharge.

                          Stephen Taylor


                          ---------------------------------
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                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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