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Re: [force_ev] air conditioning

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  • Tom Hudson
    Will s right, any qualified shop can do the work. Our E-10 s A/C had a slow leak in it and they eventually ran that down (they can put a dye in the lines that
    Message 1 of 11 , Aug 11, 2005
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      Will's right, any qualified shop can do the work. Our E-10's A/C had a
      slow leak in it and they eventually ran that down (they can put a dye in
      the lines that will show where leaks are). Good luck!

      -Tom

      Will Beckett (pacbell) wrote:

      >Take it to a general mechanic and have it recharged. Make sure they don't
      >over fill it or it will not work. There should be a label under the hood
      >that gives instructions.
      >
      >
      --
      Thomas Hudson
      http://portdistrict5.org -- 5th District Aldermanic Website
      http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power & More
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    • rod864
      Is the compressor running fast enough? The earlier cars at least had a controller for the air-con drive motor; it limits the compressor s speed to save
      Message 2 of 11 , Aug 12, 2005
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        Is the compressor running fast enough? The earlier cars at least had
        a controller for the air-con drive motor; it limits the compressor's
        speed to save energy. There is a screwdriver adjust pot on it. If
        the pot is accidentally disturbed, it's possible for the compressor to
        run too slowly, limiting the system's cooling capacity.

        If your car has something similar, you might check that before taking
        it to a workshop.
      • Ken Olum
        From: rod864 Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 07:03:02 -0000 Is the compressor running fast enough? The earlier cars at least had a controller for
        Message 3 of 11 , Aug 12, 2005
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          From: "rod864" <rod864@...>
          Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 07:03:02 -0000

          Is the compressor running fast enough? The earlier cars at least had
          a controller for the air-con drive motor; it limits the compressor's
          speed to save energy. There is a screwdriver adjust pot on it. If
          the pot is accidentally disturbed, it's possible for the compressor to
          run too slowly, limiting the system's cooling capacity.

          I do have a controller, "model DC30-156V". It does not seem to have
          any obvious externally accessible adjustment, however.

          Ken
        • Tom Hudson
          Just wondering if anyone has a charger profile for the Brusa NLG412 for a 144-Volt pack of Deka Dominators (aka Sonnenschein). It turns out that my E-10
          Message 4 of 11 , Aug 14, 2005
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            Just wondering if anyone has a charger profile for the Brusa NLG412 for
            a 144-Volt pack of Deka Dominators (aka Sonnenschein). It turns out
            that my E-10 pickup's charger has a profile in it that tops out at 15
            volts per module, which is (AFAIK) too high for the Deka Dominators.
            IIRC, the Dekas want to finish off at no more than 14 volts per module.

            I had assumed (incorrectly) that when Solectria gave the Bureau of Land
            Management the instructions for changing this truck over from Hawkers to
            Dominators, they had also reprogrammed the battery charger. I suppose
            this is why my pack didn't last as long as I had expected.

            Anywho, if anyone can point me to a location where I can grab a copy of
            this charging profile, or email me a copy of it directly, I'd appreciate
            it. I suspect the Hawker profile in my truck also probably has
            different temperature compensation etc. as well so I don't just want to
            dial down the voltage.

            Thanks!

            -Tom

            --
            Thomas Hudson
            http://portdistrict5.org -- 5th District Aldermanic Website
            http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power & More
            http://portgardenclub.org -- Port Washington Garden Club
            http://portlightstation.org -- Light Station Restoration
            http://klanky.com -- Animation Projects
          • Stephen Taylor
            Tom I don t have the profile, but Solectria s profile for 156 volt chargers they have sent me top out at 195 volts during overcharge, which is the same 15
            Message 5 of 11 , Aug 14, 2005
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              Tom I don't have the profile, but Solectria's profile for 156 volt chargers they have sent me top out at 195 volts during overcharge, which is the same 15 volts per battery you referenced.

              Stpeh Taylor

              Tom Hudson <tomhudson@...> wrote:
              Just wondering if anyone has a charger profile for the Brusa NLG412 for
              a 144-Volt pack of Deka Dominators (aka Sonnenschein). It turns out
              that my E-10 pickup's charger has a profile in it that tops out at 15
              volts per module, which is (AFAIK) too high for the Deka Dominators.
              IIRC, the Dekas want to finish off at no more than 14 volts per module.

              I had assumed (incorrectly) that when Solectria gave the Bureau of Land
              Management the instructions for changing this truck over from Hawkers to
              Dominators, they had also reprogrammed the battery charger. I suppose
              this is why my pack didn't last as long as I had expected.

              Anywho, if anyone can point me to a location where I can grab a copy of
              this charging profile, or email me a copy of it directly, I'd appreciate
              it. I suspect the Hawker profile in my truck also probably has
              different temperature compensation etc. as well so I don't just want to
              dial down the voltage.

              Thanks!

              -Tom

              --
              Thomas Hudson
              http://portdistrict5.org -- 5th District Aldermanic Website
              http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power & More
              http://portgardenclub.org -- Port Washington Garden Club
              http://portlightstation.org -- Light Station Restoration
              http://klanky.com -- Animation Projects




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            • Tom Hudson
              Hmm. This is weird. Hopefully David Roden will chime in on this, since he has far more experience with this than I do. The specs I just looked at on the Deka
              Message 6 of 11 , Aug 14, 2005
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                Hmm. This is weird. Hopefully David Roden will chime in on this, since
                he has far more experience with this than I do.

                The specs I just looked at on the Deka website say "Do not exceed 14.1
                volts for gel..." and I always thought this was the absolute charging
                maximum.

                Looking at the NLG charger programming software, and downloading the
                profile from my charger, the voltage limit for the first (bulk charge)
                phase is shown to be 169.2V (corresponding to 14.1V per module in 1
                12-battery string) -- Which is correct. Then, in the part of the
                display that gives the criteria for switching to the next charging
                phase, the voltage limit is set to 180 (or 15V per battery module).
                Won't this damage the batteries? I see nothing in Deka's documentation
                that says anything about 15V per module for gel batteries.

                Now here's the thoroughly bizarre part:

                For the heck of it, I saved a backup copy of the original profile that
                was in the charger to disk. I then set the voltage limit for switchover
                to the second charging phase to 170V, somewhat more than ideal but I
                wanted to test the change to the next charging phase (and I'm still
                testing this on my dying pack, so it isn't going to hurt anything).
                Well, I stored the revised profile and fired up the charger, then
                watched the output voltage. It gradually climbed to 170V and then
                beyond! I let it run for some time and it never changed out of that
                first phase. I double-checked the truth table that controls section
                switching and it was all correct. I double-checked with my meter that
                indeed the voltages at the individual batteries eas exceeding 14.1V.

                So what's up with that? I double-checked to be sure the charger had the
                profile stored in it, and it was all correct.

                Clearly, there's something about this I don't understand, even though
                the documentation I have on the NLG programming software indicated I'm
                doing it right. I even tried this with a spare NLG412 charger I
                salvaged from a Force, and it does the same thing.

                So I'm left with two mysteries:

                1) Can you or can you not charge Sonnenschein/Deka Dominator gel
                batteries beyond 14.1V? If you can, that's news to Deka's documentation.

                2) Why is the charger not changing charge phases when I tell it to do so
                at a lower voltage?

                I don't want to go too much farther here with the battery change in my
                truck until I get this sorted out.

                -Tom

                Stephen Taylor wrote:

                >Tom I don't have the profile, but Solectria's profile for 156 volt chargers they have sent me top out at 195 volts during overcharge, which is the same 15 volts per battery you referenced.
                >
                >Stpeh Taylor
                >
                >

                --
                Thomas Hudson
                http://portdistrict5.org -- 5th District Aldermanic Website
                http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power & More
                http://portgardenclub.org -- Port Washington Garden Club
                http://portlightstation.org -- Light Station Restoration
                http://klanky.com -- Animation Projects
              • Tom Hudson
                Follow-up: I just went out to see how things were progressing and I think I ve figured out what was going on. See if this makes sense: The truck was still
                Message 7 of 11 , Aug 14, 2005
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                  Follow-up:

                  I just went out to see how things were progressing and I think I've
                  figured out what was going on. See if this makes sense:

                  The truck was still charging in phase 1, but the charge voltage had
                  leveled off at around 171.39V. I noticed that the charge current had
                  dropped to around 4.2A. I took a peek at the Ah counter, it was at
                  around -1.0 so the truck was effectively charged up. I recalled that
                  one of the charge phase 1 termination events was satisfied if the charge
                  current dropped below 4A.

                  So I sat and watched the current slowly drop to around 4A, then as it
                  went below 4A, the charger switched to the second phase, where it puts
                  out 3A of constant current. The voltage dropped somewhat and the
                  current held. Eventually, the charger switched to stage 3, where it was
                  holding the voltage at ~165.37V and the Charge Complete light came on.

                  Hmm. I switched back over to the NLG programming software and looked at
                  the charge profile again. The phase 1 voltage was set to 169.2 but the
                  voltage actually climbed to 171.39V. Stage 2 had a 3A current which was
                  being respected. Stage 3 had a float voltage of 163.2 but the truck was
                  actually floating at 165.37.

                  Looking at the first page of the charger program, there's a 30 degree C
                  reference temperature with a 0.2% per degree C compensation. My battery
                  temperature was 23.65C, 6.35 degrees below the 30 degree reference
                  temperature. At 0.2% per degree, that's an adjustment of 1.27%.

                  First, the bulk charge voltage: 169.2 X 1.0127 = 171.34. Right where I
                  was seeing the voltage.

                  The float charge: 163.2 X 1.0127 = 165.27, or right in the ballpark with
                  the observed 165.37.

                  Sooo....

                  My guess is that the 180V value I was seeing in the charge profile is
                  simply an emergency cutoff in case something goes really wrong. When I
                  entered 170V as the cutoff (that as you might recall didn't shut it off)
                  I didn't factor in the temperature compensation, which would have pushed
                  that to around 172V, and obviously it didn't get turned off.

                  The good thing is, both my chargers are working right, and in a pinch I
                  can modify the 156V profile from the Force's old charger to work with
                  the 144V pack in my E-10. If I can't find an "official" profile, I can
                  easily create one. Whew.

                  They say you learn something new every day, and I guess that's true!

                  -Tom

                  --
                  Thomas Hudson
                  http://portdistrict5.org -- 5th District Aldermanic Website
                  http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power & More
                  http://portgardenclub.org -- Port Washington Garden Club
                  http://portlightstation.org -- Light Station Restoration
                  http://klanky.com -- Animation Projects
                • Anil Paryani
                  I am still having trouble with my Solectria 95 Force with an AMC-325 controller. I have made some progress using a new POT. However only 1 in 50 key-ons
                  Message 8 of 11 , Aug 20, 2005
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                    I am still having trouble with my Solectria 95 Force
                    with an AMC-325 controller. I have made some progress
                    using a new POT. However only 1 in 50 "key-ons" are
                    successful with me being able to drive. The other 49
                    times the vehicle does not respond at all to the
                    throttle.

                    What makes this difficult to diagnoise is that the
                    serial data out of the controller does not output
                    anything thing during the 49 unsuccessdul attempts. I
                    have tried two different motor controllers and they
                    both behave identically. So it must be something
                    intermittant on the vehicle interface side.

                    My ignition and gear selector are fine as I can hear
                    the motor controller's contactor "clunk" everytime I
                    key-on.

                    I have checked the signals going to DB25 connector and
                    everything seems fine.

                    I have the follow questions:

                    1. Does anybody have a pin-out for the DB-9 connector
                    going to the speed sensor?
                    2. When I run the monlog_e program of the motor
                    controller (I only get data when the motor controller
                    is happy) IBF and 10K bouce from 1 to 0. See
                    attached. what does this mean? Could this be the
                    source of my problems.
                    3. What could cause the AMC-325 not to output serial
                    data when it receives the ignition signal?

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                  • Will Beckett (pacbell)
                    Is the throttle cable adjusted correctly? ... From: force_ev@yahoogroups.com [mailto:force_ev@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Anil Paryani Sent: Saturday, August
                    Message 9 of 11 , Aug 20, 2005
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                      Is the throttle cable adjusted correctly?

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: force_ev@yahoogroups.com [mailto:force_ev@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                      Of Anil Paryani
                      Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2005 10:08 PM
                      To: force_ev@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: [force_ev] "IBF" and "10k"using Monlog_e.exe

                      I am still having trouble with my Solectria 95 Force with an AMC-325
                      controller. I have made some progress using a new POT. However only 1 in
                      50 "key-ons" are successful with me being able to drive. The other 49 times
                      the vehicle does not respond at all to the throttle.

                      What makes this difficult to diagnoise is that the serial data out of the
                      controller does not output anything thing during the 49 unsuccessdul
                      attempts. I have tried two different motor controllers and they both behave
                      identically. So it must be something intermittant on the vehicle interface
                      side.

                      My ignition and gear selector are fine as I can hear the motor controller's
                      contactor "clunk" everytime I key-on.

                      I have checked the signals going to DB25 connector and everything seems
                      fine.

                      I have the follow questions:

                      1. Does anybody have a pin-out for the DB-9 connector going to the speed
                      sensor?
                      2. When I run the monlog_e program of the motor controller (I only get data
                      when the motor controller is happy) IBF and 10K bouce from 1 to 0. See
                      attached. what does this mean? Could this be the source of my problems.
                      3. What could cause the AMC-325 not to output serial data when it receives
                      the ignition signal?

                      __________________________________________________
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