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Drive System Problems

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  • sharpanil
    I just purchased a 1995 Solectria from an ex EV1 owner here in Southern California...so now I feel officially part of the club! Anyway, the vehicle under full
    Message 1 of 27 , Jan 3, 2005
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      I just purchased a 1995 Solectria from an ex EV1 owner here in
      Southern California...so now I feel officially part of the club!

      Anyway, the vehicle under full throttle makes a sharp "shuddering"
      noise and begins to "bog" down. When the throttle is reduced the
      vehicle begins to accerelate normally. It acts similar as a manual
      transmission car with the clutch slipping.

      The previous owner spoke to Solectria who said that it might be a
      motor speed sensor problem. I performed the motor speed sensor test,
      as described in the service manual. The vehicle was jacked up and I
      SLOWLY accelerated up to maximum speed. Everything seemed normal to
      me. There is periodic motor vibration noise which I assume is normal
      and not related.

      If anyone has experienced this problem or could give me advice, I
      would surely appreciate it. I am wondering if the service manual's
      description of testing the motor speed sensor is adequate enough.
      Would it be worth while visual inspecting the speed sensor? It seems
      like a lot of work to get to it.
    • gjc0@aol.com
      I have experienced the same problem in my 1992 force. An electrical engineer colleague said that it seemed like a hunting problem (control system feedback
      Message 2 of 27 , Jan 3, 2005
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        I have experienced the same problem in my 1992 force.
        An electrical engineer colleague said that it seemed like
        a hunting problem (control system feedback instability) to
        him.

        My controller is a Brusa 320 which I retrofitted to the car.

        I have adjusted (via the programming of the controller or)
        the economy knob to a lower maximum current so that it
        does not occur.

        By the way, my 1992 uses a belt drive between the electric motor
        and the home-made differential. Do the 1995s still do it that way?

        Sincerely,
        Gary Carlson


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Leonard Tramiel
        At first blush I would check the batteries. If they are nearing the end of their life it might act like that. Check the pack voltage under no load and under
        Message 3 of 27 , Jan 3, 2005
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          At first blush I would check the batteries. If they are nearing the end of
          their life it might act like that.

          Check the pack voltage under no load and under load. Some one on this list
          (sorry, not me) should be able to tell you what is a normal amount of droop.

          -Leonard

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "sharpanil" <sharpanil@...>
          To: <force_ev@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 6:44 PM
          Subject: p: [force_ev] Drive System Problems


          >
          >
          > I just purchased a 1995 Solectria from an ex EV1 owner here in
          > Southern California...so now I feel officially part of the club!
          >
          > Anyway, the vehicle under full throttle makes a sharp "shuddering"
          > noise and begins to "bog" down. When the throttle is reduced the
          > vehicle begins to accerelate normally. It acts similar as a manual
          > transmission car with the clutch slipping.
          >
          > The previous owner spoke to Solectria who said that it might be a
          > motor speed sensor problem. I performed the motor speed sensor test,
          > as described in the service manual. The vehicle was jacked up and I
          > SLOWLY accelerated up to maximum speed. Everything seemed normal to
          > me. There is periodic motor vibration noise which I assume is normal
          > and not related.
          >
          > If anyone has experienced this problem or could give me advice, I
          > would surely appreciate it. I am wondering if the service manual's
          > description of testing the motor speed sensor is adequate enough.
          > Would it be worth while visual inspecting the speed sensor? It seems
          > like a lot of work to get to it.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • Aaron Birenboim
          ... Might this service manual help me with my 1992 Solectria? It s dead now. Almost surely a sensor problem. I haven t found it yet. The inverter just never
          Message 4 of 27 , Jan 4, 2005
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            On Mon, 2005-01-03 at 19:44, sharpanil wrote:

            > ... I performed the motor speed sensor test,
            > as described in the service manual....

            Might this service manual help me with my 1992 Solectria?
            It's dead now. Almost surely a sensor problem.
            I haven't found it yet.
            The inverter just never engages.
            It started conking out after bumps after battery servicing.
            Now its just dead.
            My best guess is that I damaged a wire when I was working
            on the batteries.

            Where might I get a service manual?
            Is this a Solectria item, or Brusa?
            (I have the old AMC300... are the newer Solectrias using
            Brusa AMC325 inverters?)


            --
            Aaron Birenboim \ I have an inferiority complex,
            Albuquerque, NM, USA \ but its not a very good one.
            aaron at birenboim.com \
            http://aaron.birenboim.com \
          • Stephen Taylor
            Aaron Birenboim wrote: (I have the old AMC300... are the newer Solectrias using Brusa AMC325 inverters?) -- Aaron Birenboim
            Message 5 of 27 , Jan 4, 2005
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              Aaron Birenboim <aaron@...> wrote:
              (I have the old AMC300... are the newer Solectrias using
              Brusa AMC325 inverters?)


              --
              Aaron Birenboim \ I have an inferiority complex,
              Albuquerque, NM, USA \ but its not a very good one.
              aaron at birenboim.com \
              http://aaron.birenboim.com \

              My 1997 and both 1999 Force use the AMC325 Controller.

              Stephen Taylor



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            • Anil Paryani
              Gary, The situation improves when I am in the econommy made. However, going up a steep driveway, the car doesn t make it. The previous owner stated that it
              Message 6 of 27 , Jan 4, 2005
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                Gary,

                The situation improves when I am in the econommy made.
                However, going up a steep driveway, the car doesn't
                make it. The previous owner stated that it didn't
                always do this. Any other advice would be appreciated.


                I have a mechanical gear box.

                -Anil

                --- gjc0@... wrote:

                > I have experienced the same problem in my 1992
                > force.
                > An electrical engineer colleague said that it seemed
                > like
                > a hunting problem (control system feedback
                > instability) to
                > him.
                >
                > My controller is a Brusa 320 which I retrofitted to
                > the car.
                >
                > I have adjusted (via the programming of the
                > controller or)
                > the economy knob to a lower maximum current so that
                > it
                > does not occur.
                >
                > By the way, my 1992 uses a belt drive between the
                > electric motor
                > and the home-made differential. Do the 1995s still
                > do it that way?
                >
                > Sincerely,
                > Gary Carlson
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                > removed]
                >
                >

                I just purchased a 1995 Solectria from an ex EV1 owner
                here in
                Southern California...so now I feel officially part of
                the club!

                Anyway, the vehicle under full throttle makes a sharp
                "shuddering"
                noise and begins to "bog" down. When the throttle is
                reduced the
                vehicle begins to accerelate normally. It acts
                similar as a manual
                transmission car with the clutch slipping.

                The previous owner spoke to Solectria who said that it
                might be a
                motor speed sensor problem. I performed the motor
                speed sensor test,
                as described in the service manual. The vehicle was
                jacked up and I
                SLOWLY accelerated up to maximum speed. Everything
                seemed normal to
                me. There is periodic motor vibration noise which I
                assume is normal
                and not related.

                If anyone has experienced this problem or could give
                me advice, I
                would surely appreciate it. I am wondering if the
                service manual's
                description of testing the motor speed sensor is
                adequate enough.
                Would it be worth while visual inspecting the speed
                sensor? It seems
                like a lot of work to get to it.

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              • Will Beckett
                The speed sensor problems really only show up under a load. It sounds to me like the speed sensor board needs a little adjustment. If you have a manual, this
                Message 7 of 27 , Jan 4, 2005
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                  The speed sensor problems really only show up under a load. It sounds to me
                  like the speed sensor board needs a little adjustment. If you have a
                  manual, this is easy to do. The adjustment screw needs to be turned 1/4 one
                  way or the other. My guess is that the sensor is too close and should be
                  backed off a bit. On my recent gearbox overhaul, Bob put the board in with
                  the spacing washer on top of the board instead of under it, making the board
                  about 1/8" closer. The car didn't work at all. It would not go over 15 MPH
                  before regen for kick in while accelerating. The problem I had after this
                  was getting a smooth regen. The gap gage gets it close but fine tuning
                  needs to be done with a road test.


                  - Will

                  Will Beckett
                  mailto:will@...



                  _____

                  From: sharpanil [mailto:sharpanil@...]
                  Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 6:45 PM
                  To: force_ev@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [force_ev] Drive System Problems



                  I just purchased a 1995 Solectria from an ex EV1 owner here in
                  Southern California...so now I feel officially part of the club!

                  Anyway, the vehicle under full throttle makes a sharp "shuddering"
                  noise and begins to "bog" down. When the throttle is reduced the
                  vehicle begins to accerelate normally. It acts similar as a manual
                  transmission car with the clutch slipping.

                  The previous owner spoke to Solectria who said that it might be a
                  motor speed sensor problem. I performed the motor speed sensor test,
                  as described in the service manual. The vehicle was jacked up and I
                  SLOWLY accelerated up to maximum speed. Everything seemed normal to
                  me. There is periodic motor vibration noise which I assume is normal
                  and not related.

                  If anyone has experienced this problem or could give me advice, I
                  would surely appreciate it. I am wondering if the service manual's
                  description of testing the motor speed sensor is adequate enough.
                  Would it be worth while visual inspecting the speed sensor? It seems
                  like a lot of work to get to it.





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                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Mike Chancey
                  I have been kicking this around a while and I have some thoughts. I know this sounds a bit strange, but see if this makes any sense. The motor speed sensor
                  Message 8 of 27 , Jan 4, 2005
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                    I have been kicking this around a while and I have some thoughts. I know
                    this sounds a bit strange, but see if this makes any sense.

                    The motor speed sensor reads a sensor wheel mounted on the end of the motor
                    shaft. The clearance between the sensor and the wheel is critical. Too
                    close and they make contact and are damaged, too far and the signal from
                    the sensor may become too weak to properly feed the controller. On the
                    other end of the motor shaft is a helical gear driving into the
                    gearbox. Is it possible that that gear has developed sufficient side
                    thrust to wear the motor bearings and allow the motor shaft to move
                    slightly back and forth? Under low loads or regen, the shaft would remain
                    in the normal position, but under heavy load, the shaft would move the
                    sensor disc away from the sensor and cause an intermittent signal to the
                    controller.

                    If this does seem like a possibility, then a possible way of testing it
                    would be to find a large clear area like a closed mall parking lot, and see
                    if you get the same kind of shudder while accelerating hard in reverse. In
                    reverse the helical gear action would be pulling the motor shaft the other
                    way, say closer to the sensor not further from it. I am not sure you could
                    generate the same loads in reverse though, as I suspect the controller
                    output is limited in reverse to about the same as the economy setting.

                    Is this a particularly high mileage Force? Has anyone else had any kind of
                    motor bearing problems?

                    I had a 1995 Force that I sold in 2003 to a former EV1 owner in
                    California. His name was Chris Reeves. Is this by any chance the same
                    car? If so that one got new batteries, a new motor speed sensor, and the
                    sensor wheel in March/April 2003. It had a problem with jerkiness at take
                    off, so I cleaned the pot box and replaced the motor sensor. That seemed
                    to cure the problem.

                    Thanks,


                    Mike Chancey,
                    '88 Civic EV
                    '95 Solectria Force
                    Kansas City, Missouri
                    EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
                    My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
                    Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
                    Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
                  • Will Beckett
                    I think this is the cause of bearing failures in the Force. I never had it cause a problem with the speed sensor though. The tolerance is not that close. I
                    Message 9 of 27 , Jan 4, 2005
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                      I think this is the cause of bearing failures in the Force. I never had it
                      cause a problem with the speed sensor though. The tolerance is not that
                      close. I also replaced the resistor in the pot box for a jerking problem at
                      35 MPH in my mother's Force.


                      - Will

                      Will Beckett
                      mailto:will@...



                      _____

                      From: Mike Chancey [mailto:evtinker@...]
                      Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 11:26 AM
                      To: force_ev@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [force_ev] Drive System Problems


                      I have been kicking this around a while and I have some thoughts. I know
                      this sounds a bit strange, but see if this makes any sense.

                      The motor speed sensor reads a sensor wheel mounted on the end of the motor
                      shaft. The clearance between the sensor and the wheel is critical. Too
                      close and they make contact and are damaged, too far and the signal from
                      the sensor may become too weak to properly feed the controller. On the
                      other end of the motor shaft is a helical gear driving into the
                      gearbox. Is it possible that that gear has developed sufficient side
                      thrust to wear the motor bearings and allow the motor shaft to move
                      slightly back and forth? Under low loads or regen, the shaft would remain
                      in the normal position, but under heavy load, the shaft would move the
                      sensor disc away from the sensor and cause an intermittent signal to the
                      controller.

                      If this does seem like a possibility, then a possible way of testing it
                      would be to find a large clear area like a closed mall parking lot, and see
                      if you get the same kind of shudder while accelerating hard in reverse. In
                      reverse the helical gear action would be pulling the motor shaft the other
                      way, say closer to the sensor not further from it. I am not sure you could
                      generate the same loads in reverse though, as I suspect the controller
                      output is limited in reverse to about the same as the economy setting.

                      Is this a particularly high mileage Force? Has anyone else had any kind of
                      motor bearing problems?

                      I had a 1995 Force that I sold in 2003 to a former EV1 owner in
                      California. His name was Chris Reeves. Is this by any chance the same
                      car? If so that one got new batteries, a new motor speed sensor, and the
                      sensor wheel in March/April 2003. It had a problem with jerkiness at take
                      off, so I cleaned the pot box and replaced the motor sensor. That seemed
                      to cure the problem.

                      Thanks,


                      Mike Chancey,
                      '88 Civic EV
                      '95 Solectria Force
                      Kansas City, Missouri
                      EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
                      My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
                      Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
                      Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html



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                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Anil Paryani
                      This is Chris Reeves former car! It seems the shuddering problem is back. I tried hard acceleration in reverse and it does the same shuddering. I am still
                      Message 10 of 27 , Jan 4, 2005
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                        This is Chris Reeves' former car! It seems the
                        shuddering problem is back. I tried hard acceleration
                        in reverse and it does the same shuddering.

                        I am still wondering about your theory. I have never
                        driven another Soletria but I hear a periodic drive
                        noise that I have never heard in other EVs that I have
                        driven. Is this normal of Solectrias?

                        Where is the "Pot box." The service manual must refer
                        to it as something else. I can check the tolerances
                        of the resistors in the box. But what should they be?

                        -Anil

                        --- Mike Chancey <evtinker@...> wrote:

                        > I have been kicking this around a while and I have
                        > some thoughts. I know
                        > this sounds a bit strange, but see if this makes any
                        > sense.
                        >
                        > The motor speed sensor reads a sensor wheel mounted
                        > on the end of the motor
                        > shaft. The clearance between the sensor and the
                        > wheel is critical. Too
                        > close and they make contact and are damaged, too far
                        > and the signal from
                        > the sensor may become too weak to properly feed the
                        > controller. On the
                        > other end of the motor shaft is a helical gear
                        > driving into the
                        > gearbox. Is it possible that that gear has
                        > developed sufficient side
                        > thrust to wear the motor bearings and allow the
                        > motor shaft to move
                        > slightly back and forth? Under low loads or regen,
                        > the shaft would remain
                        > in the normal position, but under heavy load, the
                        > shaft would move the
                        > sensor disc away from the sensor and cause an
                        > intermittent signal to the
                        > controller.
                        >
                        > If this does seem like a possibility, then a
                        > possible way of testing it
                        > would be to find a large clear area like a closed
                        > mall parking lot, and see
                        > if you get the same kind of shudder while
                        > accelerating hard in reverse. In
                        > reverse the helical gear action would be pulling the
                        > motor shaft the other
                        > way, say closer to the sensor not further from it.
                        > I am not sure you could
                        > generate the same loads in reverse though, as I
                        > suspect the controller
                        > output is limited in reverse to about the same as
                        > the economy setting.
                        >
                        > Is this a particularly high mileage Force? Has
                        > anyone else had any kind of
                        > motor bearing problems?
                        >
                        > I had a 1995 Force that I sold in 2003 to a former
                        > EV1 owner in
                        > California. His name was Chris Reeves. Is this by
                        > any chance the same
                        > car? If so that one got new batteries, a new motor
                        > speed sensor, and the
                        > sensor wheel in March/April 2003. It had a problem
                        > with jerkiness at take
                        > off, so I cleaned the pot box and replaced the motor
                        > sensor. That seemed
                        > to cure the problem.
                        >
                        > Thanks,
                        >
                        >
                        > Mike Chancey,
                        > '88 Civic EV
                        > '95 Solectria Force
                        > Kansas City, Missouri
                        > EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
                        > My Electric Car at:
                        > http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
                        > Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
                        > Join the EV List at:
                        > http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
                        >
                        >


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                      • Tom Hudson
                        The pot box is on the firewall inside the engine compartment, if you re looking at the firewall from the front of the car it will be on the extreme upper
                        Message 11 of 27 , Jan 4, 2005
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                          The pot box is on the firewall inside the engine compartment, if you're
                          looking at the firewall from the front of the car it will be on the
                          extreme upper right. There is a black box with a couple of silver
                          return springs on it and a cable running down. The easiest way to find
                          it is to have someone sit in the driver's seat and press and release the
                          accelerator pedal. You'll see the potbox shaft move.

                          The problem definitely sounds like a potbox issue. What happens is, as
                          you drive the vehicle for several years, a certain area on the
                          potentiometer in the potbox gets more wear than other areas.
                          Eventually, it starts to fail, and the result is a "wobbling" in power
                          at a certain position on the accelerator pedal. It happened on my '95
                          E-10, and now it's happening on my '97 Force. Basically, you need to
                          replace the potentiometer in the potbox -- Solectria might still be
                          willing to do this (I bought a new box from them for the E-10). The
                          trick is, you need to have it adjusted right so that the pedal position
                          is matched to the resistance coming out of the pot.

                          -Tom

                          Anil Paryani wrote:

                          >This is Chris Reeves' former car! It seems the
                          >shuddering problem is back. I tried hard acceleration
                          >in reverse and it does the same shuddering.
                          >
                          >I am still wondering about your theory. I have never
                          >driven another Soletria but I hear a periodic drive
                          >noise that I have never heard in other EVs that I have
                          >driven. Is this normal of Solectrias?
                          >
                          >Where is the "Pot box." The service manual must refer
                          >to it as something else. I can check the tolerances
                          >of the resistors in the box. But what should they be?
                          >
                          >-Anil
                          >
                          >--- Mike Chancey <evtinker@...> wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >>I have been kicking this around a while and I have
                          >>some thoughts. I know
                          >>this sounds a bit strange, but see if this makes any
                          >>sense.
                          >>
                          >>The motor speed sensor reads a sensor wheel mounted
                          >>on the end of the motor
                          >>shaft. The clearance between the sensor and the
                          >>wheel is critical. Too
                          >>close and they make contact and are damaged, too far
                          >>and the signal from
                          >>the sensor may become too weak to properly feed the
                          >>controller. On the
                          >>other end of the motor shaft is a helical gear
                          >>driving into the
                          >>gearbox. Is it possible that that gear has
                          >>developed sufficient side
                          >>thrust to wear the motor bearings and allow the
                          >>motor shaft to move
                          >>slightly back and forth? Under low loads or regen,
                          >>the shaft would remain
                          >>in the normal position, but under heavy load, the
                          >>shaft would move the
                          >>sensor disc away from the sensor and cause an
                          >>intermittent signal to the
                          >>controller.
                          >>
                          >>If this does seem like a possibility, then a
                          >>possible way of testing it
                          >>would be to find a large clear area like a closed
                          >>mall parking lot, and see
                          >>if you get the same kind of shudder while
                          >>accelerating hard in reverse. In
                          >>reverse the helical gear action would be pulling the
                          >>motor shaft the other
                          >>way, say closer to the sensor not further from it.
                          >>I am not sure you could
                          >>generate the same loads in reverse though, as I
                          >>suspect the controller
                          >>output is limited in reverse to about the same as
                          >>the economy setting.
                          >>
                          >>Is this a particularly high mileage Force? Has
                          >>anyone else had any kind of
                          >>motor bearing problems?
                          >>
                          >>I had a 1995 Force that I sold in 2003 to a former
                          >>EV1 owner in
                          >>California. His name was Chris Reeves. Is this by
                          >>any chance the same
                          >>car? If so that one got new batteries, a new motor
                          >>speed sensor, and the
                          >>sensor wheel in March/April 2003. It had a problem
                          >>with jerkiness at take
                          >>off, so I cleaned the pot box and replaced the motor
                          >>sensor. That seemed
                          >>to cure the problem.
                          >>
                          >>Thanks,
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>Mike Chancey,
                          >>'88 Civic EV
                          >>'95 Solectria Force
                          >>Kansas City, Missouri
                          >>EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
                          >>My Electric Car at:
                          >>http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
                          >>Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
                          >>Join the EV List at:
                          >>http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >
                          >
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                          Thomas Hudson
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                        • pattersondr2
                          Well, since we are comparing drive system problems. On one of my 1997 Solectria s when it is cold and it goes into regen, there is a relatively loud
                          Message 12 of 27 , Jan 4, 2005
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                            Well, since we are comparing drive system problems.
                            On one of my 1997 Solectria's when it is "cold" and it goes into
                            regen, there is a relatively loud screeching sound from the drive
                            system, only in regen. If it were a belt drive I would say it needed
                            adjusment, that kind of sound, a squeeling belt. I don't think the
                            97's have belt drive. After the car "warms-up", the noise goes away
                            on regen and is relatively quiet.I have not tried a test in reverse
                            and cold, that may be an interesting experiment regarding shaft end
                            play as discussed.

                            I was suprised when I first drove my second 97; it does not do this.
                            Both cars have relatively the same low milage so I don't think it is
                            a wear problem on the first vehicle.

                            Anyone had this problem ?

                            Dave
                          • Mike Chancey
                            Yes, my first 95 Solectria squealed a bit on heavy regen, but I never noticed a temperature variation. The second one is not as noticeable a squeal, but it
                            Message 13 of 27 , Jan 4, 2005
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                              Yes, my first '95 Solectria squealed a bit on heavy regen, but I never
                              noticed a temperature variation. The second one is not as noticeable a
                              squeal, but it has a kind of turboprop sound under power. It was quite
                              apparent at first, but after a few hundred miles has faded out almost
                              completely. I attributed it to the new gearbox breaking in. I never had
                              both of the operational at the same time so I couldn't compare the sounds.

                              The motor and gearbox for my second one are back at Solectria for new motor
                              bearings. It was making a kind of rumble and after checking all the wheel
                              bearings we decided it was the motor. Hopefully they will get it back to
                              me soon.

                              Thanks,

                              Mike Chancey,
                              '88 Civic EV
                              '95 Solectria Force
                              Kansas City, Missouri
                              EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
                              My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
                              Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
                              Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
                            • Mike Chancey
                              ... Small world (or maybe not, there aren t that many Forces). ... I would try checking out the motor speed sensor. I wonder if has just gone out of
                              Message 14 of 27 , Jan 4, 2005
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                                Anil wrote:

                                >This is Chris Reeves' former car!

                                Small world (or maybe not, there aren't that many Forces).

                                >It seems the
                                >shuddering problem is back. I tried hard acceleration
                                >in reverse and it does the same shuddering.

                                I would try checking out the motor speed sensor. I wonder if has just gone
                                out of adjustment? It is a bear to get the blower housing (flower pot) off
                                the end of the motor, but the rest isn't all that much a problem if you can
                                locate the correct feeler gauge (plastic shim thing from Solectria). I was
                                able to borrow one from a former Solectria rep here in Kansas City. Also
                                make sure you have one of those shorty cross tip (Phillips) screwdrivers
                                there isn't much room. FWIW I just checked my old emails, the speed sensor
                                was shipped from Solectria 6/25/03 so I probably installed it about July
                                1st 2003.

                                >I am still wondering about your theory. I have never
                                >driven another Soletria but I hear a periodic drive
                                >noise that I have never heard in other EVs that I have
                                >driven. Is this normal of Solectrias?

                                I am not sure what is normal for any electric. Every EV I have driven has
                                a different sound. The old Citicar clanked and rattled, the Jet 007 had a
                                serious controller growl (SCR), the TEVan had an almost shriek to the
                                controller and incredible blower fan noises, the Solectrias alternately
                                purred and squealed, and my Civic conversion has a low whine in the gearbox.

                                >Where is the "Pot box." The service manual must refer
                                >to it as something else. I can check the tolerances
                                >of the resistors in the box. But what should they be?

                                The pot box is the variable resistor controlled by the throttle. It is on
                                the fire wall above the master cylinder. It is just a fairly common
                                potentiometer in a weather resistant box. I opened the pot and cleaned the
                                inside with electronics cleaner. I might be worth considering replacing
                                the whole unit. I don't know the specs, but it is probably
                                labeled. Anyone happen to know the rating? Anyone with a Solectria near
                                Anil to compare sounds?

                                Thanks,




                                Mike Chancey,
                                '88 Civic EV
                                '95 Solectria Force
                                Kansas City, Missouri
                                EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
                                My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
                                Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
                                Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
                              • theoldcars@aol.com
                                Hello Dave I have a 1997 and it does have a loud screeching sound in regen. The lower the batteries are the less it screeches. As a test I went down a hill
                                Message 15 of 27 , Jan 4, 2005
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                                  Hello Dave

                                  I have a 1997 and it does have a loud screeching sound in regen. The lower
                                  the batteries are the less it screeches. As a test I went down a hill with 0
                                  Amp hours used and it really screeches. At the bottom of the hill the tires
                                  started skidding and the drive train jumping around. With around 3 Amp hours
                                  from the pack it is no where near as bad. The lower the pack is the more the
                                  sound goes away.

                                  I talked to Solectria and was told the batteries were too full to take all
                                  the charge being produced. They also said some cars are set up for more regen
                                  and it can be adjusted.

                                  Don



                                  In a message dated 1/4/2005 5:16:27 PM Pacific Standard Time,
                                  DRPatterson@... writes:



                                  Well, since we are comparing drive system problems.
                                  On one of my 1997 Solectria's when it is "cold" and it goes into
                                  regen, there is a relatively loud screeching sound from the drive
                                  system, only in regen. If it were a belt drive I would say it needed
                                  adjusment, that kind of sound, a squeeling belt. I don't think the
                                  97's have belt drive. After the car "warms-up", the noise goes away
                                  on regen and is relatively quiet.I have not tried a test in reverse
                                  and cold, that may be an interesting experiment regarding shaft end
                                  play as discussed.

                                  I was suprised when I first drove my second 97; it does not do this.
                                  Both cars have relatively the same low milage so I don't think it is
                                  a wear problem on the first vehicle.

                                  Anyone had this problem ?

                                  Dave








                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • gjc0@aol.com
                                  Will Becketts mentioned bearing failures in the Force. My 1992 Force (belt drive to a home-made differential) seems to be getting noisier, especially on
                                  Message 16 of 27 , Jan 4, 2005
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                                    Will Becketts mentioned bearing failures in the Force.
                                    My 1992 Force (belt drive to a home-made differential)
                                    seems to be getting noisier, especially on deceleration.

                                    How do I tell if I have failing bearings?

                                    Sincerely,
                                    Gary Carlson

                                    In a message dated 1/4/2005 12:52:02 PM Mountain Standard Time,
                                    will@... writes:

                                    I think this is the cause of bearing failures in the Force. I never had it
                                    cause a problem with the speed sensor though. The tolerance is not that
                                    close. I also replaced the resistor in the pot box for a jerking problem at
                                    35 MPH in my mother's Force.


                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • gjc0@aol.com
                                    Dave: Yes, I have experienced the same loud screeching noise in regen. I was wondering if it is a bearing. If it gets too much worse I plan to get a tranny
                                    Message 17 of 27 , Jan 4, 2005
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                                      Dave:

                                      Yes, I have experienced the same loud screeching noise in regen.
                                      I was wondering if it is a bearing. If it gets too much worse I plan
                                      to get a tranny and drive line specialist to take it for a test drive.
                                      If he does not recognize the sound, I am going to invite a motor
                                      repair guy for a test drive.

                                      This is only if I get desperate. So, keep us all informed if you locate
                                      the source of the noise. I will do the same.

                                      On a related note, I put in a new Gates GT2 series drive belt.
                                      After a week I decided to tighten it up some more. The next day
                                      during hard acceleration off of a stop sign, the darn thing broke and
                                      I had to coast into a parking lot. If any of you have a belt drive, I do
                                      not recommend over-tightening them.

                                      Sincerely,
                                      Gary Carlson


                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • Will Beckett
                                      The bearing problem I had was in the gear box but I replaced all the bearings including the motor. I expect the motor bearing could be a problem for you. The
                                      Message 18 of 27 , Jan 4, 2005
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                                        The bearing problem I had was in the gear box but I replaced all the
                                        bearings including the motor. I expect the motor bearing could be a problem
                                        for you. The bearing are only about $25 each but replacing them requires a
                                        lot of work.


                                        - Will

                                        Will Beckett
                                        mailto:will@...



                                        _____

                                        From: gjc0@... [mailto:gjc0@...]
                                        Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 6:53 PM
                                        To: force_ev@yahoogroups.com
                                        Subject: Re: [force_ev] Drive System Problems


                                        Will Becketts mentioned bearing failures in the Force.
                                        My 1992 Force (belt drive to a home-made differential)
                                        seems to be getting noisier, especially on deceleration.

                                        How do I tell if I have failing bearings?

                                        Sincerely,
                                        Gary Carlson

                                        In a message dated 1/4/2005 12:52:02 PM Mountain Standard Time,
                                        will@... writes:

                                        I think this is the cause of bearing failures in the Force. I never had it
                                        cause a problem with the speed sensor though. The tolerance is not that
                                        close. I also replaced the resistor in the pot box for a jerking problem at
                                        35 MPH in my mother's Force.


                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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                                      • Gordon Stallings
                                        My 99 Force makes this noise when regenerating in the first couple of miles after a full charge. My battery monitor shows that some batteries go way
                                        Message 19 of 27 , Jan 4, 2005
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                                          My 99 Force makes this noise when regenerating in the first couple of
                                          miles after a full charge. My battery monitor shows that some
                                          batteries go way overvoltage during that screeching regen, so I think
                                          it's not a good thing. I turn off regen during the first two miles
                                          if I have a downhill stretch or must make a quick stop.

                                          >Well, since we are comparing drive system problems.
                                          >On one of my 1997 Solectria's when it is "cold" and it goes into
                                          >regen, there is a relatively loud screeching sound from the drive
                                          >system, only in regen. If it were a belt drive I would say it needed
                                          >adjusment, that kind of sound, a squeeling belt. I don't think the
                                          >97's have belt drive. After the car "warms-up", the noise goes away
                                          >on regen and is relatively quiet.I have not tried a test in reverse
                                          >and cold, that may be an interesting experiment regarding shaft end
                                          >play as discussed.
                                          >
                                          >I was suprised when I first drove my second 97; it does not do this.
                                          >Both cars have relatively the same low milage so I don't think it is
                                          >a wear problem on the first vehicle.
                                          >
                                          >Anyone had this problem ?
                                          >
                                          >Dave
                                        • Tom Hudson
                                          Yup, the motor controller will not allow regen to exceed a set voltage. The squeal and vibration are the controller alternating between regen and no-regen. If
                                          Message 20 of 27 , Jan 4, 2005
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                                            Yup, the motor controller will not allow regen to exceed a set voltage.
                                            The squeal and vibration are the controller alternating between regen
                                            and no-regen. If you think it's bad in a Force, you oughta feel it in
                                            my E-10, which has two motors doing it! You'd think the truck was going
                                            to shake itself apart. I've gotten into the habit of turning the regen
                                            off as soon as I start off on a drive and don't turn it on until I've
                                            used about 5Ah.

                                            -Tom

                                            Gordon Stallings wrote:

                                            >My 99 Force makes this noise when regenerating in the first couple of
                                            >miles after a full charge. My battery monitor shows that some
                                            >batteries go way overvoltage during that screeching regen, so I think
                                            >it's not a good thing. I turn off regen during the first two miles
                                            >if I have a downhill stretch or must make a quick stop.
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >>Well, since we are comparing drive system problems.
                                            >>On one of my 1997 Solectria's when it is "cold" and it goes into
                                            >>regen, there is a relatively loud screeching sound from the drive
                                            >>system, only in regen. If it were a belt drive I would say it needed
                                            >>adjusment, that kind of sound, a squeeling belt. I don't think the
                                            >>97's have belt drive. After the car "warms-up", the noise goes away
                                            >>on regen and is relatively quiet.I have not tried a test in reverse
                                            >>and cold, that may be an interesting experiment regarding shaft end
                                            >>play as discussed.
                                            >>
                                            >>I was suprised when I first drove my second 97; it does not do this.
                                            >>Both cars have relatively the same low milage so I don't think it is
                                            >>a wear problem on the first vehicle.
                                            >>
                                            >>Anyone had this problem ?
                                            >>
                                            >>Dave
                                            >>
                                            >>
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >

                                            --
                                            Thomas Hudson
                                            http://portdistrict5.org -- 5th District Aldermanic Website
                                            http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power & More
                                            http://portgardenclub.org -- Port Washington Garden Club
                                            http://portlightstation.org -- Light Station Restoration
                                            http://klanky.com -- Animation Projects
                                          • Stephen Taylor
                                            Solectria has told me that they need to do the repairs on the motor bearings specifically because of the gear box. They say putting the motor/gearbox together
                                            Message 21 of 27 , Jan 5, 2005
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                                              Solectria has told me that they need to do the repairs on the motor bearings specifically because of the gear box. They say putting the motor/gearbox together takes special training. Can a competent mechanic replace the bearings without sending the motor/gearbox unit to Solectria for reassembly.

                                              Stephen Taylor

                                              Will Beckett <will@...> wrote:
                                              The bearing problem I had was in the gear box but I replaced all the
                                              bearings including the motor. I expect the motor bearing could be a problem
                                              for you. The bearing are only about $25 each but replacing them requires a
                                              lot of work.


                                              - Will

                                              Will Beckett
                                              mailto:will@...



                                              _____

                                              From: gjc0@... [mailto:gjc0@...]
                                              Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 6:53 PM
                                              To: force_ev@yahoogroups.com
                                              Subject: Re: [force_ev] Drive System Problems


                                              Will Becketts mentioned bearing failures in the Force.
                                              My 1992 Force (belt drive to a home-made differential)
                                              seems to be getting noisier, especially on deceleration.

                                              How do I tell if I have failing bearings?

                                              Sincerely,
                                              Gary Carlson

                                              In a message dated 1/4/2005 12:52:02 PM Mountain Standard Time,
                                              will@... writes:

                                              I think this is the cause of bearing failures in the Force. I never had it
                                              cause a problem with the speed sensor though. The tolerance is not that
                                              close. I also replaced the resistor in the pot box for a jerking problem at
                                              35 MPH in my mother's Force.


                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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                                            • Will Beckett
                                              Yes but then I expect the Bob Schneeveiss might be considered more than just a good mechanic. It is all standard stuff for someone that has done this kind of
                                              Message 22 of 27 , Jan 5, 2005
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                                                Yes but then I expect the Bob Schneeveiss might be considered more than just
                                                a good mechanic. It is all standard stuff for someone that has done this
                                                kind of work from what I observed. It works really well now.


                                                - Will

                                                Will Beckett
                                                mailto:will@...



                                                _____

                                                From: Stephen Taylor [mailto:sparrow262@...]
                                                Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 5:45 AM
                                                To: force_ev@yahoogroups.com
                                                Subject: RE: [force_ev] Drive System Problems


                                                Solectria has told me that they need to do the repairs on the motor bearings
                                                specifically because of the gear box. They say putting the motor/gearbox
                                                together takes special training. Can a competent mechanic replace the
                                                bearings without sending the motor/gearbox unit to Solectria for reassembly.

                                                Stephen Taylor

                                                Will Beckett <will@...> wrote:
                                                The bearing problem I had was in the gear box but I replaced all the
                                                bearings including the motor. I expect the motor bearing could be a problem
                                                for you. The bearing are only about $25 each but replacing them requires a
                                                lot of work.


                                                - Will

                                                Will Beckett
                                                mailto:will@...



                                                _____

                                                From: gjc0@... [mailto:gjc0@...]
                                                Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 6:53 PM
                                                To: force_ev@yahoogroups.com
                                                Subject: Re: [force_ev] Drive System Problems


                                                Will Becketts mentioned bearing failures in the Force.
                                                My 1992 Force (belt drive to a home-made differential)
                                                seems to be getting noisier, especially on deceleration.

                                                How do I tell if I have failing bearings?

                                                Sincerely,
                                                Gary Carlson

                                                In a message dated 1/4/2005 12:52:02 PM Mountain Standard Time,
                                                will@... writes:

                                                I think this is the cause of bearing failures in the Force. I never had it
                                                cause a problem with the speed sensor though. The tolerance is not that
                                                close. I also replaced the resistor in the pot box for a jerking problem at
                                                35 MPH in my mother's Force.


                                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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                                              • sparrow262
                                                I have had a medium pitch rrr-rrr sound in my drive motor for well over a year. It makes the noise when driving at low speeds (below 35) and when regening.
                                                Message 23 of 27 , Jan 7, 2005
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                                                  I have had a medium pitch rrr-rrr sound in my drive motor for well
                                                  over a year. It makes the noise when driving at low speeds (below
                                                  35) and when regening. It is not dependent on the state of charge in
                                                  that it does it when I first drive out and it does it when I drive
                                                  back home. The only time the sound goes away is when the speed gets
                                                  over 35 or so. I can sometimes get rid of it too by backing off the
                                                  acceleration for a bit and then reaccelerating the car.

                                                  Today after reading some of these comments I shut the regen off
                                                  entirely. I have always had the regen on and rarely if ever shut it
                                                  off. During my 12 mile drive with regen switched off, the car didn't
                                                  make the noise once. I'm wondering if the below suggestion about
                                                  wearing the bearing might apply here with the caveat that only regen
                                                  has the torque to push the bearings hard enough in the wrong
                                                  direction to start the noise.

                                                  Stephen Taylor
                                                  1999 Force (22,600 miles problem started at 16,000 miles)


                                                  --- In force_ev@yahoogroups.com, Mike Chancey <evtinker@e...> wrote:
                                                  > I have been kicking this around a while and I have some thoughts.
                                                  I know
                                                  > this sounds a bit strange, but see if this makes any sense.
                                                  >
                                                  > The motor speed sensor reads a sensor wheel mounted on the end of
                                                  the motor
                                                  > shaft. The clearance between the sensor and the wheel is
                                                  critical. Too
                                                  > close and they make contact and are damaged, too far and the signal
                                                  from
                                                  > the sensor may become too weak to properly feed the controller. On
                                                  the
                                                  > other end of the motor shaft is a helical gear driving into the
                                                  > gearbox. Is it possible that that gear has developed sufficient
                                                  side
                                                  > thrust to wear the motor bearings and allow the motor shaft to move
                                                  > slightly back and forth? Under low loads or regen, the shaft would
                                                  remain
                                                  > in the normal position, but under heavy load, the shaft would move
                                                  the
                                                  > sensor disc away from the sensor and cause an intermittent signal
                                                  to the
                                                  > controller.
                                                  >
                                                  > If this does seem like a possibility, then a possible way of
                                                  testing it
                                                  > would be to find a large clear area like a closed mall parking lot,
                                                  and see
                                                  > if you get the same kind of shudder while accelerating hard in
                                                  reverse. In
                                                  > reverse the helical gear action would be pulling the motor shaft
                                                  the other
                                                  > way, say closer to the sensor not further from it. I am not sure
                                                  you could
                                                  > generate the same loads in reverse though, as I suspect the
                                                  controller
                                                  > output is limited in reverse to about the same as the economy
                                                  setting.
                                                  >
                                                  > Is this a particularly high mileage Force? Has anyone else had any
                                                  kind of
                                                  > motor bearing problems?
                                                  >
                                                  > I had a 1995 Force that I sold in 2003 to a former EV1 owner in
                                                  > California. His name was Chris Reeves. Is this by any chance the
                                                  same
                                                  > car? If so that one got new batteries, a new motor speed sensor,
                                                  and the
                                                  > sensor wheel in March/April 2003. It had a problem with jerkiness
                                                  at take
                                                  > off, so I cleaned the pot box and replaced the motor sensor. That
                                                  seemed
                                                  > to cure the problem.
                                                  >
                                                  > Thanks,
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > Mike Chancey,
                                                  > '88 Civic EV
                                                  > '95 Solectria Force
                                                  > Kansas City, Missouri
                                                  > EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
                                                  > My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
                                                  > Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
                                                  > Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
                                                • Will Beckett
                                                  I don t believe it would be bearings in this case. You should hear the problem with regen on or off if it were bearings. Also, I don t think it would be a
                                                  Message 24 of 27 , Jan 7, 2005
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                                                    I don't believe it would be bearings in this case. You should hear the
                                                    problem with regen on or off if it were bearings. Also, I don't think it
                                                    would be a speed dependent noise. When I had a bearing problem it would
                                                    make the noise under a load, though it was more obvious at lower speeds
                                                    because of road noise.


                                                    - Will

                                                    Will Beckett
                                                    mailto:will@...



                                                    _____

                                                    From: sparrow262 [mailto:sparrow262@...]
                                                    Sent: Friday, January 07, 2005 6:10 AM
                                                    To: force_ev@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Subject: [force_ev] Re: Drive System Problems



                                                    I have had a medium pitch rrr-rrr sound in my drive motor for well
                                                    over a year. It makes the noise when driving at low speeds (below
                                                    35) and when regening. It is not dependent on the state of charge in
                                                    that it does it when I first drive out and it does it when I drive
                                                    back home. The only time the sound goes away is when the speed gets
                                                    over 35 or so. I can sometimes get rid of it too by backing off the
                                                    acceleration for a bit and then reaccelerating the car.

                                                    Today after reading some of these comments I shut the regen off
                                                    entirely. I have always had the regen on and rarely if ever shut it
                                                    off. During my 12 mile drive with regen switched off, the car didn't
                                                    make the noise once. I'm wondering if the below suggestion about
                                                    wearing the bearing might apply here with the caveat that only regen
                                                    has the torque to push the bearings hard enough in the wrong
                                                    direction to start the noise.

                                                    Stephen Taylor
                                                    1999 Force (22,600 miles problem started at 16,000 miles)


                                                    --- In force_ev@yahoogroups.com, Mike Chancey <evtinker@e...> wrote:
                                                    > I have been kicking this around a while and I have some thoughts.
                                                    I know
                                                    > this sounds a bit strange, but see if this makes any sense.
                                                    >
                                                    > The motor speed sensor reads a sensor wheel mounted on the end of
                                                    the motor
                                                    > shaft. The clearance between the sensor and the wheel is
                                                    critical. Too
                                                    > close and they make contact and are damaged, too far and the signal
                                                    from
                                                    > the sensor may become too weak to properly feed the controller. On
                                                    the
                                                    > other end of the motor shaft is a helical gear driving into the
                                                    > gearbox. Is it possible that that gear has developed sufficient
                                                    side
                                                    > thrust to wear the motor bearings and allow the motor shaft to move
                                                    > slightly back and forth? Under low loads or regen, the shaft would
                                                    remain
                                                    > in the normal position, but under heavy load, the shaft would move
                                                    the
                                                    > sensor disc away from the sensor and cause an intermittent signal
                                                    to the
                                                    > controller.
                                                    >
                                                    > If this does seem like a possibility, then a possible way of
                                                    testing it
                                                    > would be to find a large clear area like a closed mall parking lot,
                                                    and see
                                                    > if you get the same kind of shudder while accelerating hard in
                                                    reverse. In
                                                    > reverse the helical gear action would be pulling the motor shaft
                                                    the other
                                                    > way, say closer to the sensor not further from it. I am not sure
                                                    you could
                                                    > generate the same loads in reverse though, as I suspect the
                                                    controller
                                                    > output is limited in reverse to about the same as the economy
                                                    setting.
                                                    >
                                                    > Is this a particularly high mileage Force? Has anyone else had any
                                                    kind of
                                                    > motor bearing problems?
                                                    >
                                                    > I had a 1995 Force that I sold in 2003 to a former EV1 owner in
                                                    > California. His name was Chris Reeves. Is this by any chance the
                                                    same
                                                    > car? If so that one got new batteries, a new motor speed sensor,
                                                    and the
                                                    > sensor wheel in March/April 2003. It had a problem with jerkiness
                                                    at take
                                                    > off, so I cleaned the pot box and replaced the motor sensor. That
                                                    seemed
                                                    > to cure the problem.
                                                    >
                                                    > Thanks,
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > Mike Chancey,
                                                    > '88 Civic EV
                                                    > '95 Solectria Force
                                                    > Kansas City, Missouri
                                                    > EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
                                                    > My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
                                                    > Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
                                                    > Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html





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                                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                  • Stephen Taylor
                                                    If not the bearings then what in the regen mechanism might cause this sound to occur. Like I said it occurs during regen and during lower speed driving until
                                                    Message 25 of 27 , Jan 7, 2005
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                                                      If not the bearings then what in the regen mechanism might cause this sound to occur. Like I said it occurs during regen and during lower speed driving until about 35. It still seems that something during regen is causing a rubbing of some sort that seems to get corrected once the car gets back up to 35. For the past year this sound has been very consistent, happening almost everytime I regen and then from a stop start up again until I reach 35. This morning using no regen at all, the sound completely disappears.

                                                      Stephen Taylor



                                                      Will Beckett <will@...> wrote:I don't believe it would be bearings in this case. You should hear the
                                                      problem with regen on or off if it were bearings. Also, I don't think it
                                                      would be a speed dependent noise. When I had a bearing problem it would
                                                      make the noise under a load, though it was more obvious at lower speeds
                                                      because of road noise.


                                                      - Will

                                                      Will Beckett
                                                      mailto:will@...



                                                      _____

                                                      From: sparrow262 [mailto:sparrow262@...]
                                                      Sent: Friday, January 07, 2005 6:10 AM
                                                      To: force_ev@yahoogroups.com
                                                      Subject: [force_ev] Re: Drive System Problems



                                                      I have had a medium pitch rrr-rrr sound in my drive motor for well
                                                      over a year. It makes the noise when driving at low speeds (below
                                                      35) and when regening. It is not dependent on the state of charge in
                                                      that it does it when I first drive out and it does it when I drive
                                                      back home. The only time the sound goes away is when the speed gets
                                                      over 35 or so. I can sometimes get rid of it too by backing off the
                                                      acceleration for a bit and then reaccelerating the car.

                                                      Today after reading some of these comments I shut the regen off
                                                      entirely. I have always had the regen on and rarely if ever shut it
                                                      off. During my 12 mile drive with regen switched off, the car didn't
                                                      make the noise once. I'm wondering if the below suggestion about
                                                      wearing the bearing might apply here with the caveat that only regen
                                                      has the torque to push the bearings hard enough in the wrong
                                                      direction to start the noise.

                                                      Stephen Taylor
                                                      1999 Force (22,600 miles problem started at 16,000 miles)



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                                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                    • Will Beckett
                                                      It would be nice to hear the sound. A lot of funny things can happen in the speed sensor it not adjusted correctly. Maybe others have some suggestions. -
                                                      Message 26 of 27 , Jan 7, 2005
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                                                        It would be nice to hear the sound. A lot of funny things can happen in the
                                                        speed sensor it not adjusted correctly. Maybe others have some suggestions.



                                                        - Will

                                                        Will Beckett
                                                        mailto:will@...

                                                        -----Original Message-----
                                                        From: Stephen Taylor [mailto:sparrow262@...]
                                                        Sent: Friday, January 07, 2005 9:15 AM
                                                        To: force_ev@yahoogroups.com
                                                        Subject: RE: [force_ev] Re: Drive System Problems


                                                        If not the bearings then what in the regen mechanism might cause this sound
                                                        to occur. Like I said it occurs during regen and during lower speed driving
                                                        until about 35. It still seems that something during regen is causing a
                                                        rubbing of some sort that seems to get corrected once the car gets back up
                                                        to 35. For the past year this sound has been very consistent, happening
                                                        almost everytime I regen and then from a stop start up again until I reach
                                                        35. This morning using no regen at all, the sound completely disappears.

                                                        Stephen Taylor



                                                        Will Beckett <will@...> wrote:I don't believe it would be bearings
                                                        in this case. You should hear the problem with regen on or off if it were
                                                        bearings. Also, I don't think it would be a speed dependent noise. When I
                                                        had a bearing problem it would make the noise under a load, though it was
                                                        more obvious at lower speeds because of road noise.


                                                        - Will

                                                        Will Beckett
                                                        mailto:will@...



                                                        _____

                                                        From: sparrow262 [mailto:sparrow262@...]
                                                        Sent: Friday, January 07, 2005 6:10 AM
                                                        To: force_ev@yahoogroups.com
                                                        Subject: [force_ev] Re: Drive System Problems



                                                        I have had a medium pitch rrr-rrr sound in my drive motor for well
                                                        over a year. It makes the noise when driving at low speeds (below
                                                        35) and when regening. It is not dependent on the state of charge in
                                                        that it does it when I first drive out and it does it when I drive
                                                        back home. The only time the sound goes away is when the speed gets
                                                        over 35 or so. I can sometimes get rid of it too by backing off the
                                                        acceleration for a bit and then reaccelerating the car.

                                                        Today after reading some of these comments I shut the regen off
                                                        entirely. I have always had the regen on and rarely if ever shut it
                                                        off. During my 12 mile drive with regen switched off, the car didn't
                                                        make the noise once. I'm wondering if the below suggestion about
                                                        wearing the bearing might apply here with the caveat that only regen
                                                        has the torque to push the bearings hard enough in the wrong
                                                        direction to start the noise.

                                                        Stephen Taylor
                                                        1999 Force (22,600 miles problem started at 16,000 miles)



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                                                        force_ev-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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                                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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                                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                                                        Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                      • Aaron Birenboim
                                                        ... could it be a side-effect of the over-voltage limit? These controllers limit the regen voltage. What if its oscillating when you are over-voltage. As the
                                                        Message 27 of 27 , Jan 8, 2005
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                                                          On Tue, 2005-01-04 at 18:11, pattersondr2 wrote:
                                                          > Well, since we are comparing drive system problems.
                                                          > On one of my 1997 Solectria's when it is "cold" and it goes into
                                                          > regen, there is a relatively loud screeching sound from the drive
                                                          > system, only in regen...

                                                          could it be a side-effect of the over-voltage limit?
                                                          These controllers limit the regen voltage.
                                                          What if its oscillating when you are over-voltage.

                                                          As the car warms up (or batteries loose a little charge)
                                                          it might not hit over-voltage, and not have the
                                                          sqeualing oscillation.

                                                          My car bucks a bit when it hits the regen limit.
                                                          ... or at least it did when it was working ;-(

                                                          Just a guess...

                                                          Check the voltage while regenning....

                                                          --
                                                          Aaron Birenboim \ I have an inferiority complex,
                                                          Albuquerque, NM, USA \ but its not a very good one.
                                                          aaron at birenboim.com \
                                                          http://aaron.birenboim.com \
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