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RE: [force_ev] Force Charging rate

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  • Will Beckett
    attached -Will Will Beckett Beckett PC Solutions 4189 Baker Ave. Palo Alto, CA 94306-3908 (650) 494-6922 phone & fax (650) 269-7011 cell
    Message 1 of 20 , Dec 14, 2004
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      attached


      -Will

      Will Beckett
      Beckett PC Solutions
      4189 Baker Ave.
      Palo Alto, CA 94306-3908

      (650) 494-6922 phone & fax
      (650) 269-7011 cell
      mailto:will@...
      http://beckettpcsolutions.com <http://beckettpcsolutions.com/>

      "Let me make it easy for you!"

      a Business Network Int'l member http://www.paloaltobni.com
      <http://www.paloaltobni.com/>

      a member of the Palo Alto Chamber of Commerce http://www.paloaltochamber.com
      <http://www.paloaltochamber.com/>

      Support the arts, subscribe to West Bay Opera http://www.wbopera.org
      <http://www.wbopera.org/>



      _____

      From: theoldcars@... [mailto:theoldcars@...]
      Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 3:37 PM
      To: force_ev@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [force_ev] Force Charging rate



      The AH meter was having problems before but that has not happened for a
      while and it never affected the charging rate.

      I just took it for a short trip. I noticed the regen was going very fast
      back into the pack. As fast as the charger use to work. So I got back and
      hooked
      up to 220. It started charging slow then it went fast for a second then it
      went slow. I tried unplugging it and again and it is just charging slow
      only.
      Last night it took 14 hours and it was still not charged all the way from a

      23 AH drive. So something is wrong am I going to have to send this to
      Solectria?

      Does anyone have the Brusa program that I can load on to my computer for
      this?

      Don


      In a message dated 12/14/2004 3:11:06 PM Pacific Standard Time,
      tomhudson@... writes:

      You know, given the "issues" we are having with chargers and such, I
      think it would be a good idea to see if we can find someone in the US
      who can actually diagnose and repair these Brusa chargers. We depend on
      them big time, and when something like this happens it is critical to
      get them repaired quickly. I don't even think Solectria has anyone
      qualified to do serious work on them.

      Comments? Suggestions?

      One thing Don should do, if he can, is hook a computer up to the
      charger's 9-pin port and see what the readings are for voltage, current,
      battery temperature, etc. If the charger thinks the batteries are too
      hot, it will reduce the charge rate, IIRC. Could be several reasons for
      the symptoms he's having. He'll need the Brusa monitor program for this.

      -Tom

      Stephen Taylor wrote:

      >I haven't kept track with exact numbers, but after using 22 AH and
      charging
      for 1 hour using 220 volts I would guess my AH meter would be around 6 AH
      give or take. It certainly sounds like your having a charger problem. The
      AH
      meter light must be blinking kind of slowly whereas it should be blinking
      very rapidly early on.
      >
      >Is the car getting a full charge? How long did it take to complete the
      full 22 AH plus 10% overcharge? If you have the half dead charger that I
      described in my last message then if you went much further the charger
      would
      shutdown before it even finished the charge.
      >
      >Also didn't you have an AH meter problem. Could the batteries be getting
      a
      proper charge, but the AH meter isn't registering it properly?
      >
      >Stephen Taylor





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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    • Mike Phillips
      You know, given the issues we are having with chargers and such, I think it would be a good idea to see if we can find someone in the US who can actually
      Message 2 of 20 , Dec 15, 2004
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        "You know, given the "issues" we are having with chargers and such, I
        think it would be a good idea to see if we can find someone in the US
        who can actually diagnose and repair these Brusa chargers."

        That's what I'm trying to do. Got a charger here now. It's just a bit
        laborsome without a schematic, but not impossible. As I unbury myself
        from my list of projects it will get due time and hopefully make it
        easier when the next one arrives. The motor control repairs went that
        way for me.

        Mike



        --- In force_ev@yahoogroups.com, Tom Hudson <tomhudson@e...> wrote:
        > You know, given the "issues" we are having with chargers and such, I
        > think it would be a good idea to see if we can find someone in the US
        > who can actually diagnose and repair these Brusa chargers. We depend on
        > them big time, and when something like this happens it is critical to
        > get them repaired quickly. I don't even think Solectria has anyone
        > qualified to do serious work on them.
        >
        > Comments? Suggestions?
        >
        > One thing Don should do, if he can, is hook a computer up to the
        > charger's 9-pin port and see what the readings are for voltage, current,
        > battery temperature, etc. If the charger thinks the batteries are too
        > hot, it will reduce the charge rate, IIRC. Could be several reasons for
        > the symptoms he's having. He'll need the Brusa monitor program for this.
        >
        > -Tom
        >
        > Stephen Taylor wrote:
        >
        > >I haven't kept track with exact numbers, but after using 22 AH and
        charging for 1 hour using 220 volts I would guess my AH meter would be
        around 6 AH give or take. It certainly sounds like your having a
        charger problem. The AH meter light must be blinking kind of slowly
        whereas it should be blinking very rapidly early on.
        > >
        > >Is the car getting a full charge? How long did it take to complete
        the full 22 AH plus 10% overcharge? If you have the half dead charger
        that I described in my last message then if you went much further the
        charger would shutdown before it even finished the charge.
        > >
        > >Also didn't you have an AH meter problem. Could the batteries be
        getting a proper charge, but the AH meter isn't registering it properly?
        > >
        > >Stephen Taylor
        > >
        > >
        > >theoldcars@a... wrote:
        > >
        > >Hello Stephen
        > >
        > >That is correct 1 Ah per 10 minutes and 6 Ah in an hour.
        > >
        > >I drove the car to 22 Ah and put the charger on 220 After one hour
        it was
        > >down to 18 Ah. I timed it because I though it looked a little slow.
        I thought
        > >maybe the batteries being cold or old or both is why. So has anyone
        timed how
        > >fast they do recharge after a trip or is there some specs from
        Solectria?
        > >
        > >Don
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >
        > >
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        > --
        > Thomas Hudson
        > http://portdistrict5.org -- 5th District Aldermanic Website
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        > http://portgardenclub.org -- Port Washington Garden Club
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      • Will Beckett
        I put one of Solectria s own chargers in place of the Brusa in my mom s car and it is working well. -Will Will Beckett Beckett PC Solutions 4189 Baker Ave.
        Message 3 of 20 , Dec 15, 2004
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          I put one of Solectria's own chargers in place of the Brusa in my mom's car
          and it is working well.


          -Will

          Will Beckett
          Beckett PC Solutions
          4189 Baker Ave.
          Palo Alto, CA 94306-3908

          (650) 494-6922 phone & fax
          (650) 269-7011 cell
          mailto:will@...
          http://beckettpcsolutions.com <http://beckettpcsolutions.com/>

          "Let me make it easy for you!"

          a Business Network Int'l member http://www.paloaltobni.com
          <http://www.paloaltobni.com/>

          a member of the Palo Alto Chamber of Commerce http://www.paloaltochamber.com
          <http://www.paloaltochamber.com/>

          Support the arts, subscribe to West Bay Opera http://www.wbopera.org
          <http://www.wbopera.org/>



          _____

          From: Mike Phillips [mailto:mikep_95133@...]
          Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 12:11 PM
          To: force_ev@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [force_ev] Re: Force Charging rate



          "You know, given the "issues" we are having with chargers and such, I
          think it would be a good idea to see if we can find someone in the US
          who can actually diagnose and repair these Brusa chargers."

          That's what I'm trying to do. Got a charger here now. It's just a bit
          laborsome without a schematic, but not impossible. As I unbury myself
          from my list of projects it will get due time and hopefully make it
          easier when the next one arrives. The motor control repairs went that
          way for me.

          Mike



          --- In force_ev@yahoogroups.com, Tom Hudson <tomhudson@e...> wrote:
          > You know, given the "issues" we are having with chargers and such, I
          > think it would be a good idea to see if we can find someone in the US
          > who can actually diagnose and repair these Brusa chargers. We depend on
          > them big time, and when something like this happens it is critical to
          > get them repaired quickly. I don't even think Solectria has anyone
          > qualified to do serious work on them.
          >
          > Comments? Suggestions?
          >
          > One thing Don should do, if he can, is hook a computer up to the
          > charger's 9-pin port and see what the readings are for voltage, current,
          > battery temperature, etc. If the charger thinks the batteries are too
          > hot, it will reduce the charge rate, IIRC. Could be several reasons for
          > the symptoms he's having. He'll need the Brusa monitor program for this.
          >
          > -Tom
          >
          > Stephen Taylor wrote:
          >
          > >I haven't kept track with exact numbers, but after using 22 AH and
          charging for 1 hour using 220 volts I would guess my AH meter would be
          around 6 AH give or take. It certainly sounds like your having a
          charger problem. The AH meter light must be blinking kind of slowly
          whereas it should be blinking very rapidly early on.
          > >
          > >Is the car getting a full charge? How long did it take to complete
          the full 22 AH plus 10% overcharge? If you have the half dead charger
          that I described in my last message then if you went much further the
          charger would shutdown before it even finished the charge.
          > >
          > >Also didn't you have an AH meter problem. Could the batteries be
          getting a proper charge, but the AH meter isn't registering it properly?
          > >
          > >Stephen Taylor
          > >
          > >
          > >theoldcars@a... wrote:
          > >
          > >Hello Stephen
          > >
          > >That is correct 1 Ah per 10 minutes and 6 Ah in an hour.
          > >
          > >I drove the car to 22 Ah and put the charger on 220 After one hour
          it was
          > >down to 18 Ah. I timed it because I though it looked a little slow.
          I thought
          > >maybe the batteries being cold or old or both is why. So has anyone
          timed how
          > >fast they do recharge after a trip or is there some specs from
          Solectria?
          > >
          > >Don
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          > >
          > >Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
          > >
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          > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
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          > >force_ev-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          > >
          > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
          Service.
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >---------------------------------
          > >Do you Yahoo!?
          > > All your favorites on one personal page - Try My Yahoo!
          > >
          > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >Yahoo! Groups Links
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          > --
          > Thomas Hudson
          > http://portdistrict5.org -- 5th District Aldermanic Website
          > http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power & More
          > http://portgardenclub.org -- Port Washington Garden Club
          > http://portlightstation.org -- Light Station Restoration
          > http://klanky.com -- Animation Projects





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        • pattersondr2
          Good idea,Tom, and Mike, good luck. It may be difficult to find anyone who wants to work on them, beyond their own repairs, even for a fee. Solectria has
          Message 4 of 20 , Dec 15, 2004
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            Good idea,Tom, and Mike, good luck.
            It may be difficult to find anyone who wants to work on them, beyond
            their own repairs, even for a fee. Solectria has confirmed that they
            only have limited resources to repair these out of production charger
            units.The Ah meter can also a problem.

            Those that have worked on the chargers will describe that they are
            "very dense" packaged, and from my experience, they are extremely
            difficult to trouble shoot compared to conventional power electronics.
            BRUSA (the manufacturer)will provided schematics, for a fee. I
            recently purchased the AH meter schematics. I had a major short in the
            regulator which took out several IC's beyond the normal arc over of
            the high voltage leads common with many meters. Solectra had no more
            AH meters.

            I found my charger problem with basic trouble shooting procedures, but
            it took some time, like Mike. Mine had a shorted zenor regulator diode
            which was "burried" deep inside the unit on a driver board. It had to
            remove several interconnected circuit boards and countless numbers of
            screws and threaded stand-off's that interconnect the boards,
            documenting the process along the way and "back-engineering" the
            circuit design.

            I have a second charger in another vehicle which once a year blows one
            of the two input line fuses inside the charger, I replace the fuse and
            it works. I know this one will also come back to haunt me, too, but I
            am hoping it is a transient high line voltage issues with my power
            utility.

            I have talked to Keven at Solectra, he has a few chargers that he uses
            for repair and no inventory of the Ah meters. BRUSA does not make
            either anymore and has also sold the controller rights to another
            person. BRUSA also advised that they do have another US dealer. I have
            not contacted them on repairs of older units but I suspect they will
            not be interested, considering the response I received from BRUSA.

            This forum does help and thanks to those that have shared information.

            Dave Patterson

            --- In force_ev@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Phillips" <mikep_95133@y...> wrote:
            >
            > "You know, given the "issues" we are having with chargers and such, I
            > think it would be a good idea to see if we can find someone in the US
            > who can actually diagnose and repair these Brusa chargers."
            >
            > That's what I'm trying to do. Got a charger here now. It's just a bit
            > laborsome without a schematic, but not impossible. As I unbury myself
            > from my list of projects it will get due time and hopefully make it
            > easier when the next one arrives. The motor control repairs went that
            > way for me.
            >
            > Mike
            >
            >
            >
            > --- In force_ev@yahoogroups.com, Tom Hudson <tomhudson@e...> wrote:
            > > You know, given the "issues" we are having with chargers and such, I
            > > think it would be a good idea to see if we can find someone in the US
            > > who can actually diagnose and repair these Brusa chargers. We
            depend on
            > > them big time, and when something like this happens it is critical to
            > > get them repaired quickly. I don't even think Solectria has anyone
            > > qualified to do serious work on them.
            > >
            > > Comments? Suggestions?
            > >
            > > One thing Don should do, if he can, is hook a computer up to the
            > > charger's 9-pin port and see what the readings are for voltage,
            current,
            > > battery temperature, etc. If the charger thinks the batteries are too
            > > hot, it will reduce the charge rate, IIRC. Could be several
            reasons for
            > > the symptoms he's having. He'll need the Brusa monitor program for
            this.
            > >
            > > -Tom
            > >
            > > Stephen Taylor wrote:
            > >
            > > >I haven't kept track with exact numbers, but after using 22 AH and
            > charging for 1 hour using 220 volts I would guess my AH meter would be
            > around 6 AH give or take. It certainly sounds like your having a
            > charger problem. The AH meter light must be blinking kind of slowly
            > whereas it should be blinking very rapidly early on.
            > > >
            > > >Is the car getting a full charge? How long did it take to complete
            > the full 22 AH plus 10% overcharge? If you have the half dead charger
            > that I described in my last message then if you went much further the
            > charger would shutdown before it even finished the charge.
            > > >
            > > >Also didn't you have an AH meter problem. Could the batteries be
            > getting a proper charge, but the AH meter isn't registering it properly?
            > > >
            > > >Stephen Taylor
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >theoldcars@a... wrote:
            > > >
            > > >Hello Stephen
            > > >
            > > >That is correct 1 Ah per 10 minutes and 6 Ah in an hour.
            > > >
            > > >I drove the car to 22 Ah and put the charger on 220 After one hour
            > it was
            > > >down to 18 Ah. I timed it because I though it looked a little slow.
            > I thought
            > > >maybe the batteries being cold or old or both is why. So has anyone
            > timed how
            > > >fast they do recharge after a trip or is there some specs from
            > Solectria?
            > > >
            > > >Don
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >---------------------------------
            > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
            > > >
            > > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
            > > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/force_ev/
            > > >
            > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > > >force_ev-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            > > >
            > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
            > Service.
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >---------------------------------
            > > >Do you Yahoo!?
            > > > All your favorites on one personal page – Try My Yahoo!
            > > >
            > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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            > > >
            > > >
            > >
            > > --
            > > Thomas Hudson
            > > http://portdistrict5.org -- 5th District Aldermanic Website
            > > http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power & More
            > > http://portgardenclub.org -- Port Washington Garden Club
            > > http://portlightstation.org -- Light Station Restoration
            > > http://klanky.com -- Animation Projects
          • Mike Phillips
            Please let me know who you contacted for schematics. How much were you charged? This charger here is a Solectria that I was told was built by Brusa.
            Message 5 of 20 , Dec 16, 2004
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              Please let me know who you contacted for schematics. How much were
              you charged? This charger here is a Solectria that I was told was
              built by Brusa. Fortunately it's just one large circuit board, but
              it's multilayer so if an inside trace gets blown or shorted it's all
              over.

              Mike



              --- In force_ev@yahoogroups.com, "pattersondr2" <DRPatterson@c...>
              wrote:
              >
              > Good idea,Tom, and Mike, good luck.
              > It may be difficult to find anyone who wants to work on them, beyond
              > their own repairs, even for a fee. Solectria has confirmed that they
              > only have limited resources to repair these out of production
              charger
              > units.The Ah meter can also a problem.
              >
              > Those that have worked on the chargers will describe that they are
              > "very dense" packaged, and from my experience, they are extremely
              > difficult to trouble shoot compared to conventional power
              electronics.
              > BRUSA (the manufacturer)will provided schematics, for a fee. I
              > recently purchased the AH meter schematics. I had a major short in
              the
              > regulator which took out several IC's beyond the normal arc over of
              > the high voltage leads common with many meters. Solectra had no more
              > AH meters.
              >
              > I found my charger problem with basic trouble shooting procedures,
              but
              > it took some time, like Mike. Mine had a shorted zenor regulator
              diode
              > which was "burried" deep inside the unit on a driver board. It had
              to
              > remove several interconnected circuit boards and countless numbers
              of
              > screws and threaded stand-off's that interconnect the boards,
              > documenting the process along the way and "back-engineering" the
              > circuit design.
              >
              > I have a second charger in another vehicle which once a year blows
              one
              > of the two input line fuses inside the charger, I replace the fuse
              and
              > it works. I know this one will also come back to haunt me, too, but
              I
              > am hoping it is a transient high line voltage issues with my power
              > utility.
              >
              > I have talked to Keven at Solectra, he has a few chargers that he
              uses
              > for repair and no inventory of the Ah meters. BRUSA does not make
              > either anymore and has also sold the controller rights to another
              > person. BRUSA also advised that they do have another US dealer. I
              have
              > not contacted them on repairs of older units but I suspect they will
              > not be interested, considering the response I received from BRUSA.
              >
              > This forum does help and thanks to those that have shared
              information.
              >
              > Dave Patterson
              >
              > --- In force_ev@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Phillips" <mikep_95133@y...>
              wrote:
              > >
              > > "You know, given the "issues" we are having with chargers and
              such, I
              > > think it would be a good idea to see if we can find someone in
              the US
              > > who can actually diagnose and repair these Brusa chargers."
              > >
              > > That's what I'm trying to do. Got a charger here now. It's just a
              bit
              > > laborsome without a schematic, but not impossible. As I unbury
              myself
              > > from my list of projects it will get due time and hopefully make
              it
              > > easier when the next one arrives. The motor control repairs went
              that
              > > way for me.
              > >
              > > Mike
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > --- In force_ev@yahoogroups.com, Tom Hudson <tomhudson@e...>
              wrote:
              > > > You know, given the "issues" we are having with chargers and
              such, I
              > > > think it would be a good idea to see if we can find someone in
              the US
              > > > who can actually diagnose and repair these Brusa chargers. We
              > depend on
              > > > them big time, and when something like this happens it is
              critical to
              > > > get them repaired quickly. I don't even think Solectria has
              anyone
              > > > qualified to do serious work on them.
              > > >
              > > > Comments? Suggestions?
              > > >
              > > > One thing Don should do, if he can, is hook a computer up to the
              > > > charger's 9-pin port and see what the readings are for voltage,
              > current,
              > > > battery temperature, etc. If the charger thinks the batteries
              are too
              > > > hot, it will reduce the charge rate, IIRC. Could be several
              > reasons for
              > > > the symptoms he's having. He'll need the Brusa monitor program
              for
              > this.
              > > >
              > > > -Tom
              > > >
              > > > Stephen Taylor wrote:
              > > >
              > > > >I haven't kept track with exact numbers, but after using 22 AH
              and
              > > charging for 1 hour using 220 volts I would guess my AH meter
              would be
              > > around 6 AH give or take. It certainly sounds like your having a
              > > charger problem. The AH meter light must be blinking kind of
              slowly
              > > whereas it should be blinking very rapidly early on.
              > > > >
              > > > >Is the car getting a full charge? How long did it take to
              complete
              > > the full 22 AH plus 10% overcharge? If you have the half dead
              charger
              > > that I described in my last message then if you went much further
              the
              > > charger would shutdown before it even finished the charge.
              > > > >
              > > > >Also didn't you have an AH meter problem. Could the batteries
              be
              > > getting a proper charge, but the AH meter isn't registering it
              properly?
              > > > >
              > > > >Stephen Taylor
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >theoldcars@a... wrote:
              > > > >
              > > > >Hello Stephen
              > > > >
              > > > >That is correct 1 Ah per 10 minutes and 6 Ah in an hour.
              > > > >
              > > > >I drove the car to 22 Ah and put the charger on 220 After one
              hour
              > > it was
              > > > >down to 18 Ah. I timed it because I though it looked a little
              slow.
              > > I thought
              > > > >maybe the batteries being cold or old or both is why. So has
              anyone
              > > timed how
              > > > >fast they do recharge after a trip or is there some specs from
              > > Solectria?
              > > > >
              > > > >Don
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >---------------------------------
              > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
              > > > >
              > > > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
              > > > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/force_ev/
              > > > >
              > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > > > >force_ev-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              > > > >
              > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
              > > Service.
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >---------------------------------
              > > > >Do you Yahoo!?
              > > > > All your favorites on one personal page – Try My Yahoo!
              > > > >
              > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > >
              > > > --
              > > > Thomas Hudson
              > > > http://portdistrict5.org -- 5th District Aldermanic Website
              > > > http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power & More
              > > > http://portgardenclub.org -- Port Washington Garden Club
              > > > http://portlightstation.org -- Light Station Restoration
              > > > http://klanky.com -- Animation Projects
            • Will Beckett
              Should we be looking for a replacement controller as well? -Will Will Beckett Beckett PC Solutions 4189 Baker Ave. Palo Alto, CA 94306-3908 (650) 494-6922
              Message 6 of 20 , Dec 16, 2004
              View Source
              • 0 Attachment
                Should we be looking for a replacement controller as well?

                -Will

                Will Beckett
                Beckett PC Solutions
                4189 Baker Ave.
                Palo Alto, CA 94306-3908

                (650) 494-6922 phone & fax
                (650) 269-7011 cell
                mailto:will@...
                http://beckettpcsolutions.com <http://beckettpcsolutions.com/>

                "Let me make it easy for you!"

                a Business Network Int'l member http://www.paloaltobni.com
                <http://www.paloaltobni.com/>

                a member of the Palo Alto Chamber of Commerce http://www.paloaltochamber.com
                <http://www.paloaltochamber.com/>

                Support the arts, subscribe to West Bay Opera http://www.wbopera.org
                <http://www.wbopera.org/>



                _____

                From: pattersondr2 [mailto:DRPatterson@...]
                Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 8:41 PM
                To: force_ev@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [force_ev] Re: Force Charging rate



                Good idea,Tom, and Mike, good luck.
                It may be difficult to find anyone who wants to work on them, beyond
                their own repairs, even for a fee. Solectria has confirmed that they
                only have limited resources to repair these out of production charger
                units.The Ah meter can also a problem.

                Those that have worked on the chargers will describe that they are
                "very dense" packaged, and from my experience, they are extremely
                difficult to trouble shoot compared to conventional power electronics.
                BRUSA (the manufacturer)will provided schematics, for a fee. I
                recently purchased the AH meter schematics. I had a major short in the
                regulator which took out several IC's beyond the normal arc over of
                the high voltage leads common with many meters. Solectra had no more
                AH meters.

                I found my charger problem with basic trouble shooting procedures, but
                it took some time, like Mike. Mine had a shorted zenor regulator diode
                which was "burried" deep inside the unit on a driver board. It had to
                remove several interconnected circuit boards and countless numbers of
                screws and threaded stand-off's that interconnect the boards,
                documenting the process along the way and "back-engineering" the
                circuit design.

                I have a second charger in another vehicle which once a year blows one
                of the two input line fuses inside the charger, I replace the fuse and
                it works. I know this one will also come back to haunt me, too, but I
                am hoping it is a transient high line voltage issues with my power
                utility.

                I have talked to Keven at Solectra, he has a few chargers that he uses
                for repair and no inventory of the Ah meters. BRUSA does not make
                either anymore and has also sold the controller rights to another
                person. BRUSA also advised that they do have another US dealer. I have
                not contacted them on repairs of older units but I suspect they will
                not be interested, considering the response I received from BRUSA.

                This forum does help and thanks to those that have shared information.

                Dave Patterson

                --- In force_ev@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Phillips" <mikep_95133@y...> wrote:
                >
                > "You know, given the "issues" we are having with chargers and such, I
                > think it would be a good idea to see if we can find someone in the US
                > who can actually diagnose and repair these Brusa chargers."
                >
                > That's what I'm trying to do. Got a charger here now. It's just a bit
                > laborsome without a schematic, but not impossible. As I unbury myself
                > from my list of projects it will get due time and hopefully make it
                > easier when the next one arrives. The motor control repairs went that
                > way for me.
                >
                > Mike
                >
                >
                >
                > --- In force_ev@yahoogroups.com, Tom Hudson <tomhudson@e...> wrote:
                > > You know, given the "issues" we are having with chargers and such, I
                > > think it would be a good idea to see if we can find someone in the US
                > > who can actually diagnose and repair these Brusa chargers. We
                depend on
                > > them big time, and when something like this happens it is critical to
                > > get them repaired quickly. I don't even think Solectria has anyone
                > > qualified to do serious work on them.
                > >
                > > Comments? Suggestions?
                > >
                > > One thing Don should do, if he can, is hook a computer up to the
                > > charger's 9-pin port and see what the readings are for voltage,
                current,
                > > battery temperature, etc. If the charger thinks the batteries are too
                > > hot, it will reduce the charge rate, IIRC. Could be several
                reasons for
                > > the symptoms he's having. He'll need the Brusa monitor program for
                this.
                > >
                > > -Tom
                > >
                > > Stephen Taylor wrote:
                > >
                > > >I haven't kept track with exact numbers, but after using 22 AH and
                > charging for 1 hour using 220 volts I would guess my AH meter would be
                > around 6 AH give or take. It certainly sounds like your having a
                > charger problem. The AH meter light must be blinking kind of slowly
                > whereas it should be blinking very rapidly early on.
                > > >
                > > >Is the car getting a full charge? How long did it take to complete
                > the full 22 AH plus 10% overcharge? If you have the half dead charger
                > that I described in my last message then if you went much further the
                > charger would shutdown before it even finished the charge.
                > > >
                > > >Also didn't you have an AH meter problem. Could the batteries be
                > getting a proper charge, but the AH meter isn't registering it properly?
                > > >
                > > >Stephen Taylor
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >theoldcars@a... wrote:
                > > >
                > > >Hello Stephen
                > > >
                > > >That is correct 1 Ah per 10 minutes and 6 Ah in an hour.
                > > >
                > > >I drove the car to 22 Ah and put the charger on 220 After one hour
                > it was
                > > >down to 18 Ah. I timed it because I though it looked a little slow.
                > I thought
                > > >maybe the batteries being cold or old or both is why. So has anyone
                > timed how
                > > >fast they do recharge after a trip or is there some specs from
                > Solectria?
                > > >
                > > >Don
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >---------------------------------
                > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                > > >
                > > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                > > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/force_ev/
                > > >
                > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > > >force_ev-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                > > >
                > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                > Service.
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >---------------------------------
                > > >Do you Yahoo!?
                > > > All your favorites on one personal page - Try My Yahoo!
                > > >
                > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > >
                > > --
                > > Thomas Hudson
                > > http://portdistrict5.org -- 5th District Aldermanic Website
                > > http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power & More
                > > http://portgardenclub.org -- Port Washington Garden Club
                > > http://portlightstation.org -- Light Station Restoration
                > > http://klanky.com -- Animation Projects





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                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Stephen Taylor
                I thought Solectria makes a compatible controller for the Force. Stephen Taylor Will Beckett wrote: Should we be looking for a replacement
                Message 7 of 20 , Dec 16, 2004
                View Source
                • 0 Attachment
                  I thought Solectria makes a compatible controller for the Force.

                  Stephen Taylor


                  Will Beckett <will@...> wrote:
                  Should we be looking for a replacement controller as well?

                  -Will

                  Will Beckett
                  Beckett PC Solutions
                  4189 Baker Ave.
                  Palo Alto, CA 94306-3908

                  (650) 494-6922 phone & fax
                  (650) 269-7011 cell
                  mailto:will@...
                  http://beckettpcsolutions.com <http://beckettpcsolutions.com/>

                  "Let me make it easy for you!"

                  a Business Network Int'l member http://www.paloaltobni.com
                  <http://www.paloaltobni.com/>

                  a member of the Palo Alto Chamber of Commerce http://www.paloaltochamber.com
                  <http://www.paloaltochamber.com/>

                  Support the arts, subscribe to West Bay Opera http://www.wbopera.org
                  <http://www.wbopera.org/>



                  _____

                  From: pattersondr2 [mailto:DRPatterson@...]
                  Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 8:41 PM
                  To: force_ev@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [force_ev] Re: Force Charging rate



                  Good idea,Tom, and Mike, good luck.
                  It may be difficult to find anyone who wants to work on them, beyond
                  their own repairs, even for a fee. Solectria has confirmed that they
                  only have limited resources to repair these out of production charger
                  units.The Ah meter can also a problem.

                  Those that have worked on the chargers will describe that they are
                  "very dense" packaged, and from my experience, they are extremely
                  difficult to trouble shoot compared to conventional power electronics.
                  BRUSA (the manufacturer)will provided schematics, for a fee. I
                  recently purchased the AH meter schematics. I had a major short in the
                  regulator which took out several IC's beyond the normal arc over of
                  the high voltage leads common with many meters. Solectra had no more
                  AH meters.

                  I found my charger problem with basic trouble shooting procedures, but
                  it took some time, like Mike. Mine had a shorted zenor regulator diode
                  which was "burried" deep inside the unit on a driver board. It had to
                  remove several interconnected circuit boards and countless numbers of
                  screws and threaded stand-off's that interconnect the boards,
                  documenting the process along the way and "back-engineering" the
                  circuit design.

                  I have a second charger in another vehicle which once a year blows one
                  of the two input line fuses inside the charger, I replace the fuse and
                  it works. I know this one will also come back to haunt me, too, but I
                  am hoping it is a transient high line voltage issues with my power
                  utility.

                  I have talked to Keven at Solectra, he has a few chargers that he uses
                  for repair and no inventory of the Ah meters. BRUSA does not make
                  either anymore and has also sold the controller rights to another
                  person. BRUSA also advised that they do have another US dealer. I have
                  not contacted them on repairs of older units but I suspect they will
                  not be interested, considering the response I received from BRUSA.

                  This forum does help and thanks to those that have shared information.

                  Dave Patterson

                  --- In force_ev@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Phillips" <mikep_95133@y...> wrote:
                  >
                  > "You know, given the "issues" we are having with chargers and such, I
                  > think it would be a good idea to see if we can find someone in the US
                  > who can actually diagnose and repair these Brusa chargers."
                  >
                  > That's what I'm trying to do. Got a charger here now. It's just a bit
                  > laborsome without a schematic, but not impossible. As I unbury myself
                  > from my list of projects it will get due time and hopefully make it
                  > easier when the next one arrives. The motor control repairs went that
                  > way for me.
                  >
                  > Mike
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In force_ev@yahoogroups.com, Tom Hudson <tomhudson@e...> wrote:
                  > > You know, given the "issues" we are having with chargers and such, I
                  > > think it would be a good idea to see if we can find someone in the US
                  > > who can actually diagnose and repair these Brusa chargers. We
                  depend on
                  > > them big time, and when something like this happens it is critical to
                  > > get them repaired quickly. I don't even think Solectria has anyone
                  > > qualified to do serious work on them.
                  > >
                  > > Comments? Suggestions?
                  > >
                  > > One thing Don should do, if he can, is hook a computer up to the
                  > > charger's 9-pin port and see what the readings are for voltage,
                  current,
                  > > battery temperature, etc. If the charger thinks the batteries are too
                  > > hot, it will reduce the charge rate, IIRC. Could be several
                  reasons for
                  > > the symptoms he's having. He'll need the Brusa monitor program for
                  this.
                  > >
                  > > -Tom
                  > >
                  > > Stephen Taylor wrote:
                  > >
                  > > >I haven't kept track with exact numbers, but after using 22 AH and
                  > charging for 1 hour using 220 volts I would guess my AH meter would be
                  > around 6 AH give or take. It certainly sounds like your having a
                  > charger problem. The AH meter light must be blinking kind of slowly
                  > whereas it should be blinking very rapidly early on.
                  > > >
                  > > >Is the car getting a full charge? How long did it take to complete
                  > the full 22 AH plus 10% overcharge? If you have the half dead charger
                  > that I described in my last message then if you went much further the
                  > charger would shutdown before it even finished the charge.
                  > > >
                  > > >Also didn't you have an AH meter problem. Could the batteries be
                  > getting a proper charge, but the AH meter isn't registering it properly?
                  > > >
                  > > >Stephen Taylor
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >theoldcars@a... wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > >Hello Stephen
                  > > >
                  > > >That is correct 1 Ah per 10 minutes and 6 Ah in an hour.
                  > > >
                  > > >I drove the car to 22 Ah and put the charger on 220 After one hour
                  > it was
                  > > >down to 18 Ah. I timed it because I though it looked a little slow.
                  > I thought
                  > > >maybe the batteries being cold or old or both is why. So has anyone
                  > timed how
                  > > >fast they do recharge after a trip or is there some specs from
                  > Solectria?
                  > > >
                  > > >Don
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >---------------------------------
                  > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > > >
                  > > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                  > > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/force_ev/
                  > > >
                  > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  > > >force_ev-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  > > >
                  > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                  > Service.
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >---------------------------------
                  > > >Do you Yahoo!?
                  > > > All your favorites on one personal page - Try My Yahoo!
                  > > >
                  > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > > --
                  > > Thomas Hudson
                  > > http://portdistrict5.org -- 5th District Aldermanic Website
                  > > http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power & More
                  > > http://portgardenclub.org -- Port Washington Garden Club
                  > > http://portlightstation.org -- Light Station Restoration
                  > > http://klanky.com -- Animation Projects





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                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • David Roden (Akron OH USA)
                  ... I m not sure that he s an official US dealer, but Victor of Metric Mind sells Brusa products and does seem to have some kind of factory connection.
                  Message 8 of 20 , Dec 22, 2004
                  View Source
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                    On 16 Dec 2004 at 4:40, pattersondr2 wrote:

                    > BRUSA also advised that they do have another US dealer.

                    I'm not sure that he's an "official" US dealer, but Victor of Metric Mind
                    sells Brusa products and does seem to have some kind of factory connection.

                    http://www.metricmind.com/charger.htm

                    I doubt that he could support chargers or inverters other than the ones he
                    sells, but you could contact him and ask.
                  • Stephen Taylor
                    Victor does not support the older NLG4 chargers and neither does Brusa. I went thru that last year when my NiCD NLG4 died. I ended up purchasing a NLG5 thru
                    Message 9 of 20 , Dec 23, 2004
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                      Victor does not support the older NLG4 chargers and neither does Brusa. I went thru that last year when my NiCD NLG4 died. I ended up purchasing a NLG5 thru Victor, but also got a used NLG4 from Otmar.

                      Stephen Taylor



                      "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <roden@...> wrote:On 16 Dec 2004 at 4:40, pattersondr2 wrote:

                      > BRUSA also advised that they do have another US dealer.

                      I'm not sure that he's an "official" US dealer, but Victor of Metric Mind
                      sells Brusa products and does seem to have some kind of factory connection.

                      http://www.metricmind.com/charger.htm

                      I doubt that he could support chargers or inverters other than the ones he
                      sells, but you could contact him and ask.



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                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Peter Belden
                      Don, Right now it s my mom who drives the car down in Palo Alto at her house since I live in San Francisco and don t have parking. So I don t want to burden
                      Message 10 of 20 , Jan 5, 2005
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                        Don,

                        Right now it's my mom who drives the car down in Palo Alto at her house since I live in San Francisco and don't have parking. So I don't want to burden her with checking the car repeatedly to see when it's reached a full charge. But the next time I drive the car I can try to remember to time it.

                        Hope the problem is getting better.

                        Peter

                        theoldcars@... wrote:

                        Hello Peter

                        Next time you come back after a trip could you time it?

                        Thanks
                        Don

                        In a message dated 12/13/2004 6:43:06 PM Pacific Standard Time,
                        pbelden@... writes:


                        I also fall into the user category not the techie one,
                        but I'm pretty sure my force charges at a rate closer
                        to 10AH/hour not 6.

                        Peter





                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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