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Re: [force_ev] Force Charging rate

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  • theoldcars@aol.com
    The AH meter was having problems before but that has not happened for a while and it never affected the charging rate. I just took it for a short trip. I
    Message 1 of 20 , Dec 14, 2004
    • 0 Attachment
      The AH meter was having problems before but that has not happened for a
      while and it never affected the charging rate.

      I just took it for a short trip. I noticed the regen was going very fast
      back into the pack. As fast as the charger use to work. So I got back and hooked
      up to 220. It started charging slow then it went fast for a second then it
      went slow. I tried unplugging it and again and it is just charging slow only.
      Last night it took 14 hours and it was still not charged all the way from a
      23 AH drive. So something is wrong am I going to have to send this to
      Solectria?

      Does anyone have the Brusa program that I can load on to my computer for
      this?

      Don


      In a message dated 12/14/2004 3:11:06 PM Pacific Standard Time,
      tomhudson@... writes:

      You know, given the "issues" we are having with chargers and such, I
      think it would be a good idea to see if we can find someone in the US
      who can actually diagnose and repair these Brusa chargers. We depend on
      them big time, and when something like this happens it is critical to
      get them repaired quickly. I don't even think Solectria has anyone
      qualified to do serious work on them.

      Comments? Suggestions?

      One thing Don should do, if he can, is hook a computer up to the
      charger's 9-pin port and see what the readings are for voltage, current,
      battery temperature, etc. If the charger thinks the batteries are too
      hot, it will reduce the charge rate, IIRC. Could be several reasons for
      the symptoms he's having. He'll need the Brusa monitor program for this.

      -Tom

      Stephen Taylor wrote:

      >I haven't kept track with exact numbers, but after using 22 AH and charging
      for 1 hour using 220 volts I would guess my AH meter would be around 6 AH
      give or take. It certainly sounds like your having a charger problem. The AH
      meter light must be blinking kind of slowly whereas it should be blinking
      very rapidly early on.
      >
      >Is the car getting a full charge? How long did it take to complete the
      full 22 AH plus 10% overcharge? If you have the half dead charger that I
      described in my last message then if you went much further the charger would
      shutdown before it even finished the charge.
      >
      >Also didn't you have an AH meter problem. Could the batteries be getting a
      proper charge, but the AH meter isn't registering it properly?
      >
      >Stephen Taylor





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Will Beckett
      attached -Will Will Beckett Beckett PC Solutions 4189 Baker Ave. Palo Alto, CA 94306-3908 (650) 494-6922 phone & fax (650) 269-7011 cell
      Message 2 of 20 , Dec 14, 2004
      • 0 Attachment
        attached


        -Will

        Will Beckett
        Beckett PC Solutions
        4189 Baker Ave.
        Palo Alto, CA 94306-3908

        (650) 494-6922 phone & fax
        (650) 269-7011 cell
        mailto:will@...
        http://beckettpcsolutions.com <http://beckettpcsolutions.com/>

        "Let me make it easy for you!"

        a Business Network Int'l member http://www.paloaltobni.com
        <http://www.paloaltobni.com/>

        a member of the Palo Alto Chamber of Commerce http://www.paloaltochamber.com
        <http://www.paloaltochamber.com/>

        Support the arts, subscribe to West Bay Opera http://www.wbopera.org
        <http://www.wbopera.org/>



        _____

        From: theoldcars@... [mailto:theoldcars@...]
        Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 3:37 PM
        To: force_ev@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [force_ev] Force Charging rate



        The AH meter was having problems before but that has not happened for a
        while and it never affected the charging rate.

        I just took it for a short trip. I noticed the regen was going very fast
        back into the pack. As fast as the charger use to work. So I got back and
        hooked
        up to 220. It started charging slow then it went fast for a second then it
        went slow. I tried unplugging it and again and it is just charging slow
        only.
        Last night it took 14 hours and it was still not charged all the way from a

        23 AH drive. So something is wrong am I going to have to send this to
        Solectria?

        Does anyone have the Brusa program that I can load on to my computer for
        this?

        Don


        In a message dated 12/14/2004 3:11:06 PM Pacific Standard Time,
        tomhudson@... writes:

        You know, given the "issues" we are having with chargers and such, I
        think it would be a good idea to see if we can find someone in the US
        who can actually diagnose and repair these Brusa chargers. We depend on
        them big time, and when something like this happens it is critical to
        get them repaired quickly. I don't even think Solectria has anyone
        qualified to do serious work on them.

        Comments? Suggestions?

        One thing Don should do, if he can, is hook a computer up to the
        charger's 9-pin port and see what the readings are for voltage, current,
        battery temperature, etc. If the charger thinks the batteries are too
        hot, it will reduce the charge rate, IIRC. Could be several reasons for
        the symptoms he's having. He'll need the Brusa monitor program for this.

        -Tom

        Stephen Taylor wrote:

        >I haven't kept track with exact numbers, but after using 22 AH and
        charging
        for 1 hour using 220 volts I would guess my AH meter would be around 6 AH
        give or take. It certainly sounds like your having a charger problem. The
        AH
        meter light must be blinking kind of slowly whereas it should be blinking
        very rapidly early on.
        >
        >Is the car getting a full charge? How long did it take to complete the
        full 22 AH plus 10% overcharge? If you have the half dead charger that I
        described in my last message then if you went much further the charger
        would
        shutdown before it even finished the charge.
        >
        >Also didn't you have an AH meter problem. Could the batteries be getting
        a
        proper charge, but the AH meter isn't registering it properly?
        >
        >Stephen Taylor





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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      • Mike Phillips
        You know, given the issues we are having with chargers and such, I think it would be a good idea to see if we can find someone in the US who can actually
        Message 3 of 20 , Dec 15, 2004
        • 0 Attachment
          "You know, given the "issues" we are having with chargers and such, I
          think it would be a good idea to see if we can find someone in the US
          who can actually diagnose and repair these Brusa chargers."

          That's what I'm trying to do. Got a charger here now. It's just a bit
          laborsome without a schematic, but not impossible. As I unbury myself
          from my list of projects it will get due time and hopefully make it
          easier when the next one arrives. The motor control repairs went that
          way for me.

          Mike



          --- In force_ev@yahoogroups.com, Tom Hudson <tomhudson@e...> wrote:
          > You know, given the "issues" we are having with chargers and such, I
          > think it would be a good idea to see if we can find someone in the US
          > who can actually diagnose and repair these Brusa chargers. We depend on
          > them big time, and when something like this happens it is critical to
          > get them repaired quickly. I don't even think Solectria has anyone
          > qualified to do serious work on them.
          >
          > Comments? Suggestions?
          >
          > One thing Don should do, if he can, is hook a computer up to the
          > charger's 9-pin port and see what the readings are for voltage, current,
          > battery temperature, etc. If the charger thinks the batteries are too
          > hot, it will reduce the charge rate, IIRC. Could be several reasons for
          > the symptoms he's having. He'll need the Brusa monitor program for this.
          >
          > -Tom
          >
          > Stephen Taylor wrote:
          >
          > >I haven't kept track with exact numbers, but after using 22 AH and
          charging for 1 hour using 220 volts I would guess my AH meter would be
          around 6 AH give or take. It certainly sounds like your having a
          charger problem. The AH meter light must be blinking kind of slowly
          whereas it should be blinking very rapidly early on.
          > >
          > >Is the car getting a full charge? How long did it take to complete
          the full 22 AH plus 10% overcharge? If you have the half dead charger
          that I described in my last message then if you went much further the
          charger would shutdown before it even finished the charge.
          > >
          > >Also didn't you have an AH meter problem. Could the batteries be
          getting a proper charge, but the AH meter isn't registering it properly?
          > >
          > >Stephen Taylor
          > >
          > >
          > >theoldcars@a... wrote:
          > >
          > >Hello Stephen
          > >
          > >That is correct 1 Ah per 10 minutes and 6 Ah in an hour.
          > >
          > >I drove the car to 22 Ah and put the charger on 220 After one hour
          it was
          > >down to 18 Ah. I timed it because I though it looked a little slow.
          I thought
          > >maybe the batteries being cold or old or both is why. So has anyone
          timed how
          > >fast they do recharge after a trip or is there some specs from
          Solectria?
          > >
          > >Don
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          > >
          > >Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
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          > >force_ev-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          > >
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          Service.
          > >
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          > >
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          > > All your favorites on one personal page – Try My Yahoo!
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          > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
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          > >
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          > >
          > >
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          > >
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          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          > --
          > Thomas Hudson
          > http://portdistrict5.org -- 5th District Aldermanic Website
          > http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power & More
          > http://portgardenclub.org -- Port Washington Garden Club
          > http://portlightstation.org -- Light Station Restoration
          > http://klanky.com -- Animation Projects
        • Will Beckett
          I put one of Solectria s own chargers in place of the Brusa in my mom s car and it is working well. -Will Will Beckett Beckett PC Solutions 4189 Baker Ave.
          Message 4 of 20 , Dec 15, 2004
          • 0 Attachment
            I put one of Solectria's own chargers in place of the Brusa in my mom's car
            and it is working well.


            -Will

            Will Beckett
            Beckett PC Solutions
            4189 Baker Ave.
            Palo Alto, CA 94306-3908

            (650) 494-6922 phone & fax
            (650) 269-7011 cell
            mailto:will@...
            http://beckettpcsolutions.com <http://beckettpcsolutions.com/>

            "Let me make it easy for you!"

            a Business Network Int'l member http://www.paloaltobni.com
            <http://www.paloaltobni.com/>

            a member of the Palo Alto Chamber of Commerce http://www.paloaltochamber.com
            <http://www.paloaltochamber.com/>

            Support the arts, subscribe to West Bay Opera http://www.wbopera.org
            <http://www.wbopera.org/>



            _____

            From: Mike Phillips [mailto:mikep_95133@...]
            Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 12:11 PM
            To: force_ev@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [force_ev] Re: Force Charging rate



            "You know, given the "issues" we are having with chargers and such, I
            think it would be a good idea to see if we can find someone in the US
            who can actually diagnose and repair these Brusa chargers."

            That's what I'm trying to do. Got a charger here now. It's just a bit
            laborsome without a schematic, but not impossible. As I unbury myself
            from my list of projects it will get due time and hopefully make it
            easier when the next one arrives. The motor control repairs went that
            way for me.

            Mike



            --- In force_ev@yahoogroups.com, Tom Hudson <tomhudson@e...> wrote:
            > You know, given the "issues" we are having with chargers and such, I
            > think it would be a good idea to see if we can find someone in the US
            > who can actually diagnose and repair these Brusa chargers. We depend on
            > them big time, and when something like this happens it is critical to
            > get them repaired quickly. I don't even think Solectria has anyone
            > qualified to do serious work on them.
            >
            > Comments? Suggestions?
            >
            > One thing Don should do, if he can, is hook a computer up to the
            > charger's 9-pin port and see what the readings are for voltage, current,
            > battery temperature, etc. If the charger thinks the batteries are too
            > hot, it will reduce the charge rate, IIRC. Could be several reasons for
            > the symptoms he's having. He'll need the Brusa monitor program for this.
            >
            > -Tom
            >
            > Stephen Taylor wrote:
            >
            > >I haven't kept track with exact numbers, but after using 22 AH and
            charging for 1 hour using 220 volts I would guess my AH meter would be
            around 6 AH give or take. It certainly sounds like your having a
            charger problem. The AH meter light must be blinking kind of slowly
            whereas it should be blinking very rapidly early on.
            > >
            > >Is the car getting a full charge? How long did it take to complete
            the full 22 AH plus 10% overcharge? If you have the half dead charger
            that I described in my last message then if you went much further the
            charger would shutdown before it even finished the charge.
            > >
            > >Also didn't you have an AH meter problem. Could the batteries be
            getting a proper charge, but the AH meter isn't registering it properly?
            > >
            > >Stephen Taylor
            > >
            > >
            > >theoldcars@a... wrote:
            > >
            > >Hello Stephen
            > >
            > >That is correct 1 Ah per 10 minutes and 6 Ah in an hour.
            > >
            > >I drove the car to 22 Ah and put the charger on 220 After one hour
            it was
            > >down to 18 Ah. I timed it because I though it looked a little slow.
            I thought
            > >maybe the batteries being cold or old or both is why. So has anyone
            timed how
            > >fast they do recharge after a trip or is there some specs from
            Solectria?
            > >
            > >Don
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            > >
            > >Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
            > >
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            > >---------------------------------
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            > >
            > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
            > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/force_ev/
            > >
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            > >force_ev-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            > >
            > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
            Service.
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >---------------------------------
            > >Do you Yahoo!?
            > > All your favorites on one personal page - Try My Yahoo!
            > >
            > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >Yahoo! Groups Links
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            > --
            > Thomas Hudson
            > http://portdistrict5.org -- 5th District Aldermanic Website
            > http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power & More
            > http://portgardenclub.org -- Port Washington Garden Club
            > http://portlightstation.org -- Light Station Restoration
            > http://klanky.com -- Animation Projects





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            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • pattersondr2
            Good idea,Tom, and Mike, good luck. It may be difficult to find anyone who wants to work on them, beyond their own repairs, even for a fee. Solectria has
            Message 5 of 20 , Dec 15, 2004
            • 0 Attachment
              Good idea,Tom, and Mike, good luck.
              It may be difficult to find anyone who wants to work on them, beyond
              their own repairs, even for a fee. Solectria has confirmed that they
              only have limited resources to repair these out of production charger
              units.The Ah meter can also a problem.

              Those that have worked on the chargers will describe that they are
              "very dense" packaged, and from my experience, they are extremely
              difficult to trouble shoot compared to conventional power electronics.
              BRUSA (the manufacturer)will provided schematics, for a fee. I
              recently purchased the AH meter schematics. I had a major short in the
              regulator which took out several IC's beyond the normal arc over of
              the high voltage leads common with many meters. Solectra had no more
              AH meters.

              I found my charger problem with basic trouble shooting procedures, but
              it took some time, like Mike. Mine had a shorted zenor regulator diode
              which was "burried" deep inside the unit on a driver board. It had to
              remove several interconnected circuit boards and countless numbers of
              screws and threaded stand-off's that interconnect the boards,
              documenting the process along the way and "back-engineering" the
              circuit design.

              I have a second charger in another vehicle which once a year blows one
              of the two input line fuses inside the charger, I replace the fuse and
              it works. I know this one will also come back to haunt me, too, but I
              am hoping it is a transient high line voltage issues with my power
              utility.

              I have talked to Keven at Solectra, he has a few chargers that he uses
              for repair and no inventory of the Ah meters. BRUSA does not make
              either anymore and has also sold the controller rights to another
              person. BRUSA also advised that they do have another US dealer. I have
              not contacted them on repairs of older units but I suspect they will
              not be interested, considering the response I received from BRUSA.

              This forum does help and thanks to those that have shared information.

              Dave Patterson

              --- In force_ev@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Phillips" <mikep_95133@y...> wrote:
              >
              > "You know, given the "issues" we are having with chargers and such, I
              > think it would be a good idea to see if we can find someone in the US
              > who can actually diagnose and repair these Brusa chargers."
              >
              > That's what I'm trying to do. Got a charger here now. It's just a bit
              > laborsome without a schematic, but not impossible. As I unbury myself
              > from my list of projects it will get due time and hopefully make it
              > easier when the next one arrives. The motor control repairs went that
              > way for me.
              >
              > Mike
              >
              >
              >
              > --- In force_ev@yahoogroups.com, Tom Hudson <tomhudson@e...> wrote:
              > > You know, given the "issues" we are having with chargers and such, I
              > > think it would be a good idea to see if we can find someone in the US
              > > who can actually diagnose and repair these Brusa chargers. We
              depend on
              > > them big time, and when something like this happens it is critical to
              > > get them repaired quickly. I don't even think Solectria has anyone
              > > qualified to do serious work on them.
              > >
              > > Comments? Suggestions?
              > >
              > > One thing Don should do, if he can, is hook a computer up to the
              > > charger's 9-pin port and see what the readings are for voltage,
              current,
              > > battery temperature, etc. If the charger thinks the batteries are too
              > > hot, it will reduce the charge rate, IIRC. Could be several
              reasons for
              > > the symptoms he's having. He'll need the Brusa monitor program for
              this.
              > >
              > > -Tom
              > >
              > > Stephen Taylor wrote:
              > >
              > > >I haven't kept track with exact numbers, but after using 22 AH and
              > charging for 1 hour using 220 volts I would guess my AH meter would be
              > around 6 AH give or take. It certainly sounds like your having a
              > charger problem. The AH meter light must be blinking kind of slowly
              > whereas it should be blinking very rapidly early on.
              > > >
              > > >Is the car getting a full charge? How long did it take to complete
              > the full 22 AH plus 10% overcharge? If you have the half dead charger
              > that I described in my last message then if you went much further the
              > charger would shutdown before it even finished the charge.
              > > >
              > > >Also didn't you have an AH meter problem. Could the batteries be
              > getting a proper charge, but the AH meter isn't registering it properly?
              > > >
              > > >Stephen Taylor
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >theoldcars@a... wrote:
              > > >
              > > >Hello Stephen
              > > >
              > > >That is correct 1 Ah per 10 minutes and 6 Ah in an hour.
              > > >
              > > >I drove the car to 22 Ah and put the charger on 220 After one hour
              > it was
              > > >down to 18 Ah. I timed it because I though it looked a little slow.
              > I thought
              > > >maybe the batteries being cold or old or both is why. So has anyone
              > timed how
              > > >fast they do recharge after a trip or is there some specs from
              > Solectria?
              > > >
              > > >Don
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >---------------------------------
              > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
              > > >
              > > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
              > > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/force_ev/
              > > >
              > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > > >force_ev-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              > > >
              > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
              > Service.
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >---------------------------------
              > > >Do you Yahoo!?
              > > > All your favorites on one personal page – Try My Yahoo!
              > > >
              > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
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              > > >
              > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
              > > >
              > > >
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              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > >
              > > --
              > > Thomas Hudson
              > > http://portdistrict5.org -- 5th District Aldermanic Website
              > > http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power & More
              > > http://portgardenclub.org -- Port Washington Garden Club
              > > http://portlightstation.org -- Light Station Restoration
              > > http://klanky.com -- Animation Projects
            • Mike Phillips
              Please let me know who you contacted for schematics. How much were you charged? This charger here is a Solectria that I was told was built by Brusa.
              Message 6 of 20 , Dec 16, 2004
              • 0 Attachment
                Please let me know who you contacted for schematics. How much were
                you charged? This charger here is a Solectria that I was told was
                built by Brusa. Fortunately it's just one large circuit board, but
                it's multilayer so if an inside trace gets blown or shorted it's all
                over.

                Mike



                --- In force_ev@yahoogroups.com, "pattersondr2" <DRPatterson@c...>
                wrote:
                >
                > Good idea,Tom, and Mike, good luck.
                > It may be difficult to find anyone who wants to work on them, beyond
                > their own repairs, even for a fee. Solectria has confirmed that they
                > only have limited resources to repair these out of production
                charger
                > units.The Ah meter can also a problem.
                >
                > Those that have worked on the chargers will describe that they are
                > "very dense" packaged, and from my experience, they are extremely
                > difficult to trouble shoot compared to conventional power
                electronics.
                > BRUSA (the manufacturer)will provided schematics, for a fee. I
                > recently purchased the AH meter schematics. I had a major short in
                the
                > regulator which took out several IC's beyond the normal arc over of
                > the high voltage leads common with many meters. Solectra had no more
                > AH meters.
                >
                > I found my charger problem with basic trouble shooting procedures,
                but
                > it took some time, like Mike. Mine had a shorted zenor regulator
                diode
                > which was "burried" deep inside the unit on a driver board. It had
                to
                > remove several interconnected circuit boards and countless numbers
                of
                > screws and threaded stand-off's that interconnect the boards,
                > documenting the process along the way and "back-engineering" the
                > circuit design.
                >
                > I have a second charger in another vehicle which once a year blows
                one
                > of the two input line fuses inside the charger, I replace the fuse
                and
                > it works. I know this one will also come back to haunt me, too, but
                I
                > am hoping it is a transient high line voltage issues with my power
                > utility.
                >
                > I have talked to Keven at Solectra, he has a few chargers that he
                uses
                > for repair and no inventory of the Ah meters. BRUSA does not make
                > either anymore and has also sold the controller rights to another
                > person. BRUSA also advised that they do have another US dealer. I
                have
                > not contacted them on repairs of older units but I suspect they will
                > not be interested, considering the response I received from BRUSA.
                >
                > This forum does help and thanks to those that have shared
                information.
                >
                > Dave Patterson
                >
                > --- In force_ev@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Phillips" <mikep_95133@y...>
                wrote:
                > >
                > > "You know, given the "issues" we are having with chargers and
                such, I
                > > think it would be a good idea to see if we can find someone in
                the US
                > > who can actually diagnose and repair these Brusa chargers."
                > >
                > > That's what I'm trying to do. Got a charger here now. It's just a
                bit
                > > laborsome without a schematic, but not impossible. As I unbury
                myself
                > > from my list of projects it will get due time and hopefully make
                it
                > > easier when the next one arrives. The motor control repairs went
                that
                > > way for me.
                > >
                > > Mike
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > --- In force_ev@yahoogroups.com, Tom Hudson <tomhudson@e...>
                wrote:
                > > > You know, given the "issues" we are having with chargers and
                such, I
                > > > think it would be a good idea to see if we can find someone in
                the US
                > > > who can actually diagnose and repair these Brusa chargers. We
                > depend on
                > > > them big time, and when something like this happens it is
                critical to
                > > > get them repaired quickly. I don't even think Solectria has
                anyone
                > > > qualified to do serious work on them.
                > > >
                > > > Comments? Suggestions?
                > > >
                > > > One thing Don should do, if he can, is hook a computer up to the
                > > > charger's 9-pin port and see what the readings are for voltage,
                > current,
                > > > battery temperature, etc. If the charger thinks the batteries
                are too
                > > > hot, it will reduce the charge rate, IIRC. Could be several
                > reasons for
                > > > the symptoms he's having. He'll need the Brusa monitor program
                for
                > this.
                > > >
                > > > -Tom
                > > >
                > > > Stephen Taylor wrote:
                > > >
                > > > >I haven't kept track with exact numbers, but after using 22 AH
                and
                > > charging for 1 hour using 220 volts I would guess my AH meter
                would be
                > > around 6 AH give or take. It certainly sounds like your having a
                > > charger problem. The AH meter light must be blinking kind of
                slowly
                > > whereas it should be blinking very rapidly early on.
                > > > >
                > > > >Is the car getting a full charge? How long did it take to
                complete
                > > the full 22 AH plus 10% overcharge? If you have the half dead
                charger
                > > that I described in my last message then if you went much further
                the
                > > charger would shutdown before it even finished the charge.
                > > > >
                > > > >Also didn't you have an AH meter problem. Could the batteries
                be
                > > getting a proper charge, but the AH meter isn't registering it
                properly?
                > > > >
                > > > >Stephen Taylor
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >theoldcars@a... wrote:
                > > > >
                > > > >Hello Stephen
                > > > >
                > > > >That is correct 1 Ah per 10 minutes and 6 Ah in an hour.
                > > > >
                > > > >I drove the car to 22 Ah and put the charger on 220 After one
                hour
                > > it was
                > > > >down to 18 Ah. I timed it because I though it looked a little
                slow.
                > > I thought
                > > > >maybe the batteries being cold or old or both is why. So has
                anyone
                > > timed how
                > > > >fast they do recharge after a trip or is there some specs from
                > > Solectria?
                > > > >
                > > > >Don
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >---------------------------------
                > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                > > > >
                > > > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                > > > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/force_ev/
                > > > >
                > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > > > >force_ev-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                > > > >
                > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                > > Service.
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >---------------------------------
                > > > >Do you Yahoo!?
                > > > > All your favorites on one personal page – Try My Yahoo!
                > > > >
                > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > >
                > > > --
                > > > Thomas Hudson
                > > > http://portdistrict5.org -- 5th District Aldermanic Website
                > > > http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power & More
                > > > http://portgardenclub.org -- Port Washington Garden Club
                > > > http://portlightstation.org -- Light Station Restoration
                > > > http://klanky.com -- Animation Projects
              • Will Beckett
                Should we be looking for a replacement controller as well? -Will Will Beckett Beckett PC Solutions 4189 Baker Ave. Palo Alto, CA 94306-3908 (650) 494-6922
                Message 7 of 20 , Dec 16, 2004
                • 0 Attachment
                  Should we be looking for a replacement controller as well?

                  -Will

                  Will Beckett
                  Beckett PC Solutions
                  4189 Baker Ave.
                  Palo Alto, CA 94306-3908

                  (650) 494-6922 phone & fax
                  (650) 269-7011 cell
                  mailto:will@...
                  http://beckettpcsolutions.com <http://beckettpcsolutions.com/>

                  "Let me make it easy for you!"

                  a Business Network Int'l member http://www.paloaltobni.com
                  <http://www.paloaltobni.com/>

                  a member of the Palo Alto Chamber of Commerce http://www.paloaltochamber.com
                  <http://www.paloaltochamber.com/>

                  Support the arts, subscribe to West Bay Opera http://www.wbopera.org
                  <http://www.wbopera.org/>



                  _____

                  From: pattersondr2 [mailto:DRPatterson@...]
                  Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 8:41 PM
                  To: force_ev@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [force_ev] Re: Force Charging rate



                  Good idea,Tom, and Mike, good luck.
                  It may be difficult to find anyone who wants to work on them, beyond
                  their own repairs, even for a fee. Solectria has confirmed that they
                  only have limited resources to repair these out of production charger
                  units.The Ah meter can also a problem.

                  Those that have worked on the chargers will describe that they are
                  "very dense" packaged, and from my experience, they are extremely
                  difficult to trouble shoot compared to conventional power electronics.
                  BRUSA (the manufacturer)will provided schematics, for a fee. I
                  recently purchased the AH meter schematics. I had a major short in the
                  regulator which took out several IC's beyond the normal arc over of
                  the high voltage leads common with many meters. Solectra had no more
                  AH meters.

                  I found my charger problem with basic trouble shooting procedures, but
                  it took some time, like Mike. Mine had a shorted zenor regulator diode
                  which was "burried" deep inside the unit on a driver board. It had to
                  remove several interconnected circuit boards and countless numbers of
                  screws and threaded stand-off's that interconnect the boards,
                  documenting the process along the way and "back-engineering" the
                  circuit design.

                  I have a second charger in another vehicle which once a year blows one
                  of the two input line fuses inside the charger, I replace the fuse and
                  it works. I know this one will also come back to haunt me, too, but I
                  am hoping it is a transient high line voltage issues with my power
                  utility.

                  I have talked to Keven at Solectra, he has a few chargers that he uses
                  for repair and no inventory of the Ah meters. BRUSA does not make
                  either anymore and has also sold the controller rights to another
                  person. BRUSA also advised that they do have another US dealer. I have
                  not contacted them on repairs of older units but I suspect they will
                  not be interested, considering the response I received from BRUSA.

                  This forum does help and thanks to those that have shared information.

                  Dave Patterson

                  --- In force_ev@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Phillips" <mikep_95133@y...> wrote:
                  >
                  > "You know, given the "issues" we are having with chargers and such, I
                  > think it would be a good idea to see if we can find someone in the US
                  > who can actually diagnose and repair these Brusa chargers."
                  >
                  > That's what I'm trying to do. Got a charger here now. It's just a bit
                  > laborsome without a schematic, but not impossible. As I unbury myself
                  > from my list of projects it will get due time and hopefully make it
                  > easier when the next one arrives. The motor control repairs went that
                  > way for me.
                  >
                  > Mike
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In force_ev@yahoogroups.com, Tom Hudson <tomhudson@e...> wrote:
                  > > You know, given the "issues" we are having with chargers and such, I
                  > > think it would be a good idea to see if we can find someone in the US
                  > > who can actually diagnose and repair these Brusa chargers. We
                  depend on
                  > > them big time, and when something like this happens it is critical to
                  > > get them repaired quickly. I don't even think Solectria has anyone
                  > > qualified to do serious work on them.
                  > >
                  > > Comments? Suggestions?
                  > >
                  > > One thing Don should do, if he can, is hook a computer up to the
                  > > charger's 9-pin port and see what the readings are for voltage,
                  current,
                  > > battery temperature, etc. If the charger thinks the batteries are too
                  > > hot, it will reduce the charge rate, IIRC. Could be several
                  reasons for
                  > > the symptoms he's having. He'll need the Brusa monitor program for
                  this.
                  > >
                  > > -Tom
                  > >
                  > > Stephen Taylor wrote:
                  > >
                  > > >I haven't kept track with exact numbers, but after using 22 AH and
                  > charging for 1 hour using 220 volts I would guess my AH meter would be
                  > around 6 AH give or take. It certainly sounds like your having a
                  > charger problem. The AH meter light must be blinking kind of slowly
                  > whereas it should be blinking very rapidly early on.
                  > > >
                  > > >Is the car getting a full charge? How long did it take to complete
                  > the full 22 AH plus 10% overcharge? If you have the half dead charger
                  > that I described in my last message then if you went much further the
                  > charger would shutdown before it even finished the charge.
                  > > >
                  > > >Also didn't you have an AH meter problem. Could the batteries be
                  > getting a proper charge, but the AH meter isn't registering it properly?
                  > > >
                  > > >Stephen Taylor
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >theoldcars@a... wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > >Hello Stephen
                  > > >
                  > > >That is correct 1 Ah per 10 minutes and 6 Ah in an hour.
                  > > >
                  > > >I drove the car to 22 Ah and put the charger on 220 After one hour
                  > it was
                  > > >down to 18 Ah. I timed it because I though it looked a little slow.
                  > I thought
                  > > >maybe the batteries being cold or old or both is why. So has anyone
                  > timed how
                  > > >fast they do recharge after a trip or is there some specs from
                  > Solectria?
                  > > >
                  > > >Don
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >---------------------------------
                  > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > > >
                  > > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                  > > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/force_ev/
                  > > >
                  > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  > > >force_ev-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  > > >
                  > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                  > Service.
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >---------------------------------
                  > > >Do you Yahoo!?
                  > > > All your favorites on one personal page - Try My Yahoo!
                  > > >
                  > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > > --
                  > > Thomas Hudson
                  > > http://portdistrict5.org -- 5th District Aldermanic Website
                  > > http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power & More
                  > > http://portgardenclub.org -- Port Washington Garden Club
                  > > http://portlightstation.org -- Light Station Restoration
                  > > http://klanky.com -- Animation Projects





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                  ADVERTISEMENT

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                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Stephen Taylor
                  I thought Solectria makes a compatible controller for the Force. Stephen Taylor Will Beckett wrote: Should we be looking for a replacement
                  Message 8 of 20 , Dec 16, 2004
                  • 0 Attachment
                    I thought Solectria makes a compatible controller for the Force.

                    Stephen Taylor


                    Will Beckett <will@...> wrote:
                    Should we be looking for a replacement controller as well?

                    -Will

                    Will Beckett
                    Beckett PC Solutions
                    4189 Baker Ave.
                    Palo Alto, CA 94306-3908

                    (650) 494-6922 phone & fax
                    (650) 269-7011 cell
                    mailto:will@...
                    http://beckettpcsolutions.com <http://beckettpcsolutions.com/>

                    "Let me make it easy for you!"

                    a Business Network Int'l member http://www.paloaltobni.com
                    <http://www.paloaltobni.com/>

                    a member of the Palo Alto Chamber of Commerce http://www.paloaltochamber.com
                    <http://www.paloaltochamber.com/>

                    Support the arts, subscribe to West Bay Opera http://www.wbopera.org
                    <http://www.wbopera.org/>



                    _____

                    From: pattersondr2 [mailto:DRPatterson@...]
                    Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 8:41 PM
                    To: force_ev@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [force_ev] Re: Force Charging rate



                    Good idea,Tom, and Mike, good luck.
                    It may be difficult to find anyone who wants to work on them, beyond
                    their own repairs, even for a fee. Solectria has confirmed that they
                    only have limited resources to repair these out of production charger
                    units.The Ah meter can also a problem.

                    Those that have worked on the chargers will describe that they are
                    "very dense" packaged, and from my experience, they are extremely
                    difficult to trouble shoot compared to conventional power electronics.
                    BRUSA (the manufacturer)will provided schematics, for a fee. I
                    recently purchased the AH meter schematics. I had a major short in the
                    regulator which took out several IC's beyond the normal arc over of
                    the high voltage leads common with many meters. Solectra had no more
                    AH meters.

                    I found my charger problem with basic trouble shooting procedures, but
                    it took some time, like Mike. Mine had a shorted zenor regulator diode
                    which was "burried" deep inside the unit on a driver board. It had to
                    remove several interconnected circuit boards and countless numbers of
                    screws and threaded stand-off's that interconnect the boards,
                    documenting the process along the way and "back-engineering" the
                    circuit design.

                    I have a second charger in another vehicle which once a year blows one
                    of the two input line fuses inside the charger, I replace the fuse and
                    it works. I know this one will also come back to haunt me, too, but I
                    am hoping it is a transient high line voltage issues with my power
                    utility.

                    I have talked to Keven at Solectra, he has a few chargers that he uses
                    for repair and no inventory of the Ah meters. BRUSA does not make
                    either anymore and has also sold the controller rights to another
                    person. BRUSA also advised that they do have another US dealer. I have
                    not contacted them on repairs of older units but I suspect they will
                    not be interested, considering the response I received from BRUSA.

                    This forum does help and thanks to those that have shared information.

                    Dave Patterson

                    --- In force_ev@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Phillips" <mikep_95133@y...> wrote:
                    >
                    > "You know, given the "issues" we are having with chargers and such, I
                    > think it would be a good idea to see if we can find someone in the US
                    > who can actually diagnose and repair these Brusa chargers."
                    >
                    > That's what I'm trying to do. Got a charger here now. It's just a bit
                    > laborsome without a schematic, but not impossible. As I unbury myself
                    > from my list of projects it will get due time and hopefully make it
                    > easier when the next one arrives. The motor control repairs went that
                    > way for me.
                    >
                    > Mike
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In force_ev@yahoogroups.com, Tom Hudson <tomhudson@e...> wrote:
                    > > You know, given the "issues" we are having with chargers and such, I
                    > > think it would be a good idea to see if we can find someone in the US
                    > > who can actually diagnose and repair these Brusa chargers. We
                    depend on
                    > > them big time, and when something like this happens it is critical to
                    > > get them repaired quickly. I don't even think Solectria has anyone
                    > > qualified to do serious work on them.
                    > >
                    > > Comments? Suggestions?
                    > >
                    > > One thing Don should do, if he can, is hook a computer up to the
                    > > charger's 9-pin port and see what the readings are for voltage,
                    current,
                    > > battery temperature, etc. If the charger thinks the batteries are too
                    > > hot, it will reduce the charge rate, IIRC. Could be several
                    reasons for
                    > > the symptoms he's having. He'll need the Brusa monitor program for
                    this.
                    > >
                    > > -Tom
                    > >
                    > > Stephen Taylor wrote:
                    > >
                    > > >I haven't kept track with exact numbers, but after using 22 AH and
                    > charging for 1 hour using 220 volts I would guess my AH meter would be
                    > around 6 AH give or take. It certainly sounds like your having a
                    > charger problem. The AH meter light must be blinking kind of slowly
                    > whereas it should be blinking very rapidly early on.
                    > > >
                    > > >Is the car getting a full charge? How long did it take to complete
                    > the full 22 AH plus 10% overcharge? If you have the half dead charger
                    > that I described in my last message then if you went much further the
                    > charger would shutdown before it even finished the charge.
                    > > >
                    > > >Also didn't you have an AH meter problem. Could the batteries be
                    > getting a proper charge, but the AH meter isn't registering it properly?
                    > > >
                    > > >Stephen Taylor
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >theoldcars@a... wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > >Hello Stephen
                    > > >
                    > > >That is correct 1 Ah per 10 minutes and 6 Ah in an hour.
                    > > >
                    > > >I drove the car to 22 Ah and put the charger on 220 After one hour
                    > it was
                    > > >down to 18 Ah. I timed it because I though it looked a little slow.
                    > I thought
                    > > >maybe the batteries being cold or old or both is why. So has anyone
                    > timed how
                    > > >fast they do recharge after a trip or is there some specs from
                    > Solectria?
                    > > >
                    > > >Don
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >---------------------------------
                    > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > > >
                    > > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                    > > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/force_ev/
                    > > >
                    > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    > > >force_ev-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    > > >
                    > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                    > Service.
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >---------------------------------
                    > > >Do you Yahoo!?
                    > > > All your favorites on one personal page - Try My Yahoo!
                    > > >
                    > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > > --
                    > > Thomas Hudson
                    > > http://portdistrict5.org -- 5th District Aldermanic Website
                    > > http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power & More
                    > > http://portgardenclub.org -- Port Washington Garden Club
                    > > http://portlightstation.org -- Light Station Restoration
                    > > http://klanky.com -- Animation Projects





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                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • David Roden (Akron OH USA)
                    ... I m not sure that he s an official US dealer, but Victor of Metric Mind sells Brusa products and does seem to have some kind of factory connection.
                    Message 9 of 20 , Dec 22, 2004
                    • 0 Attachment
                      On 16 Dec 2004 at 4:40, pattersondr2 wrote:

                      > BRUSA also advised that they do have another US dealer.

                      I'm not sure that he's an "official" US dealer, but Victor of Metric Mind
                      sells Brusa products and does seem to have some kind of factory connection.

                      http://www.metricmind.com/charger.htm

                      I doubt that he could support chargers or inverters other than the ones he
                      sells, but you could contact him and ask.
                    • Stephen Taylor
                      Victor does not support the older NLG4 chargers and neither does Brusa. I went thru that last year when my NiCD NLG4 died. I ended up purchasing a NLG5 thru
                      Message 10 of 20 , Dec 23, 2004
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Victor does not support the older NLG4 chargers and neither does Brusa. I went thru that last year when my NiCD NLG4 died. I ended up purchasing a NLG5 thru Victor, but also got a used NLG4 from Otmar.

                        Stephen Taylor



                        "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <roden@...> wrote:On 16 Dec 2004 at 4:40, pattersondr2 wrote:

                        > BRUSA also advised that they do have another US dealer.

                        I'm not sure that he's an "official" US dealer, but Victor of Metric Mind
                        sells Brusa products and does seem to have some kind of factory connection.

                        http://www.metricmind.com/charger.htm

                        I doubt that he could support chargers or inverters other than the ones he
                        sells, but you could contact him and ask.



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                      • Peter Belden
                        Don, Right now it s my mom who drives the car down in Palo Alto at her house since I live in San Francisco and don t have parking. So I don t want to burden
                        Message 11 of 20 , Jan 5, 2005
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Don,

                          Right now it's my mom who drives the car down in Palo Alto at her house since I live in San Francisco and don't have parking. So I don't want to burden her with checking the car repeatedly to see when it's reached a full charge. But the next time I drive the car I can try to remember to time it.

                          Hope the problem is getting better.

                          Peter

                          theoldcars@... wrote:

                          Hello Peter

                          Next time you come back after a trip could you time it?

                          Thanks
                          Don

                          In a message dated 12/13/2004 6:43:06 PM Pacific Standard Time,
                          pbelden@... writes:


                          I also fall into the user category not the techie one,
                          but I'm pretty sure my force charges at a rate closer
                          to 10AH/hour not 6.

                          Peter





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