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Force Charging rate

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  • theoldcars
    Hello I am new to the group and have a 1997 Force. I was looking at how efficient my batteries are at charging. It is right at 6Ah per hour or 1Ah in 10
    Message 1 of 20 , Dec 12, 2004
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      Hello I am new to the group and have a 1997 Force.

      I was looking at how efficient my batteries are at charging. It is
      right at 6Ah per hour or 1Ah in 10 minutes at 50 degrees. I bought
      this with 14,500 and now have 15,500 miles. I believe the batteries
      have never been changed. I was curious what others were getting?

      Don
    • Stephen Taylor
      6 AH seems very low at least during the intial bulk charge phase. If you are averaging over the entire charge time until the charger goes to float, that might
      Message 2 of 20 , Dec 13, 2004
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        6 AH seems very low at least during the intial bulk charge phase. If you are averaging over the entire charge time until the charger goes to float, that might be closer. The 220 charger will start out close to 20 Amps and gradually decay after the pack voltage reaches 183 volts. Then it does a 10% overcharge at 3 Amps up to 195 volts.

        Are you charging on a 110 circuit? I've never monitored my charger when plugged into 110 so I can't tell you how fast it would charge. The NLG4 generally should be plugged into a 220 circuit. This is especially true now with the winter coming because the thermal management system only works when you are plugged into 220.

        Stephen Taylor


        theoldcars <theoldcars@...> wrote:
        Hello I am new to the group and have a 1997 Force.

        I was looking at how efficient my batteries are at charging. It is
        right at 6Ah per hour or 1Ah in 10 minutes at 50 degrees. I bought
        this with 14,500 and now have 15,500 miles. I believe the batteries
        have never been changed. I was curious what others were getting?

        Don




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      • theoldcars@aol.com
        Hello Stephen Good to hear from you. This is the bulk charge rate on 220. I have only used 110 two times it takes forever. It is outside at 50 to 60 degrees
        Message 3 of 20 , Dec 13, 2004
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          Hello Stephen

          Good to hear from you. This is the bulk charge rate on 220. I have only used
          110 two times it takes forever. It is outside at 50 to 60 degrees would the
          thermal management system be taking some of the power from the charge to the
          batteries?

          Don

          In a message dated 12/13/2004 5:39:46 AM Pacific Standard Time,
          sparrow262@... writes:

          6 AH seems very low at least during the intial bulk charge phase. If you
          are averaging over the entire charge time until the charger goes to float, that
          might be closer. The 220 charger will start out close to 20 Amps and
          gradually decay after the pack voltage reaches 183 volts. Then it does a 10%
          overcharge at 3 Amps up to 195 volts.

          Are you charging on a 110 circuit? I've never monitored my charger when
          plugged into 110 so I can't tell you how fast it would charge. The NLG4
          generally should be plugged into a 220 circuit. This is especially true now with
          the winter coming because the thermal management system only works when you
          are plugged into 220.

          Stephen Taylor






          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Stephen Taylor
          I can not believe that the thermal management system would slow the charge rate significantly. Just to make sure I m understanding you, what you said was after
          Message 4 of 20 , Dec 13, 2004
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            I can not believe that the thermal management system would slow the charge rate significantly.

            Just to make sure I'm understanding you, what you said was after driving the car say at least 10 AH, that you plug the car into 220 and immediately start timing. After 10 minutes the car has only gone down 1 AH and after an hour only 6 AH, if that is the case then the below paragraph probably applies. If you are averaging over the entire charge time including the overcharge then your charger is probably OK.

            I have had an experience where for lack of a better word half the charger died, but the other half kept on working. When that happened the car would charge slowly, but worse if I drove the car and used more than, I think 26 AH, the car would not even fully charge. For some reason the charger still thought it was putting out almost 20 Amps when maybe it was putting out only 6 or 7. As the car was bulk charging it thought it was adding about 3 times as many AH as it really was doing. The charger programming is set to shut the charger down after a certain number of AH (that number I think was in the range of 70 to 80AH) so even though the batteries only received say 26 AH the charger thought it put in 78 AH and shutdown. The problem being obviously that the batteries would not get fully charged on longer runs. This could be your problem too. Solectria fixed my charger for $400 plus shipping.

            There are many others with the technical knowledge here and experience who are far more qualified to answer your question than me. My knowledge has all been as a user. Anybody else want to tackle the problem?

            Stephen Taylor







            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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          • Peter Belden
            I also fall into the user category not the techie one, but I m pretty sure my force charges at a rate closer to 10AH/hour not 6. Peter ... I can not believe
            Message 5 of 20 , Dec 13, 2004
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              I also fall into the user category not the techie one,
              but I'm pretty sure my force charges at a rate closer
              to 10AH/hour not 6.

              Peter


              --- Stephen Taylor <sparrow262@...> wrote:


              ---------------------------------
              I can not believe that the thermal management system
              would slow the charge rate significantly.

              Just to make sure I'm understanding you, what you said
              was after driving the car say at least 10 AH, that
              you plug the car into 220 and immediately start
              timing. After 10 minutes the car has only gone down 1
              AH and after an hour only 6 AH, if that is the case
              then the below paragraph probably applies. If you are
              averaging over the entire charge time including the
              overcharge then your charger is probably OK.

              I have had an experience where for lack of a better
              word half the charger died, but the other half kept on
              working. When that happened the car would charge
              slowly, but worse if I drove the car and used more
              than, I think 26 AH, the car would not even fully
              charge. For some reason the charger still thought it
              was putting out almost 20 Amps when maybe it was
              putting out only 6 or 7. As the car was bulk charging
              it thought it was adding about 3 times as many AH as
              it really was doing. The charger programming is set
              to shut the charger down after a certain number of AH
              (that number I think was in the range of 70 to 80AH)
              so even though the batteries only received say 26 AH
              the charger thought it put in 78 AH and shutdown. The
              problem being obviously that the batteries would not
              get fully charged on longer runs. This could be your
              problem too. Solectria fixed my charger for $400 plus
              shipping.

              There are many others with the technical knowledge
              here and experience who are far more qualified to
              answer your question than me. My knowledge has all
              been as a user. Anybody else want to tackle the
              problem?

              Stephen Taylor







              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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            • theoldcars@aol.com
              Hello Stephen That is correct 1 Ah per 10 minutes and 6 Ah in an hour. I drove the car to 22 Ah and put the charger on 220 After one hour it was down to 18 Ah.
              Message 6 of 20 , Dec 13, 2004
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                Hello Stephen

                That is correct 1 Ah per 10 minutes and 6 Ah in an hour.

                I drove the car to 22 Ah and put the charger on 220 After one hour it was
                down to 18 Ah. I timed it because I though it looked a little slow. I thought
                maybe the batteries being cold or old or both is why. So has anyone timed how
                fast they do recharge after a trip or is there some specs from Solectria?

                Don

                In a message dated 12/13/2004 5:52:37 PM Pacific Standard Time,
                sparrow262@... writes:

                I can not believe that the thermal management system would slow the charge
                rate significantly.

                Just to make sure I'm understanding you, what you said was after driving the
                car say at least 10 AH, that you plug the car into 220 and immediately
                start timing. After 10 minutes the car has only gone down 1 AH and after an hour
                only 6 AH, if that is the case then the below paragraph probably applies.
                If you are averaging over the entire charge time including the overcharge then
                your charger is probably OK.

                I have had an experience where for lack of a better word half the charger
                died, but the other half kept on working. When that happened the car would
                charge slowly, but worse if I drove the car and used more than, I think 26 AH,
                the car would not even fully charge. For some reason the charger still
                thought it was putting out almost 20 Amps when maybe it was putting out only 6 or
                7. As the car was bulk charging it thought it was adding about 3 times as
                many AH as it really was doing. The charger programming is set to shut the
                charger down after a certain number of AH (that number I think was in the range
                of 70 to 80AH) so even though the batteries only received say 26 AH the
                charger thought it put in 78 AH and shutdown. The problem being obviously that
                the batteries would not get fully charged on longer runs. This could be your
                problem too. Solectria fixed my charger for $400 plus shipping.

                There are many others with the technical knowledge here and experience who
                are far more qualified to answer your question than me. My knowledge has all
                been as a user. Anybody else want to tackle the problem?

                Stephen Taylor







                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • theoldcars@aol.com
                Hello Peter Next time you come back after a trip could you time it? Thanks Don In a message dated 12/13/2004 6:43:06 PM Pacific Standard Time,
                Message 7 of 20 , Dec 13, 2004
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                  Hello Peter

                  Next time you come back after a trip could you time it?

                  Thanks
                  Don

                  In a message dated 12/13/2004 6:43:06 PM Pacific Standard Time,
                  pbelden@... writes:


                  I also fall into the user category not the techie one,
                  but I'm pretty sure my force charges at a rate closer
                  to 10AH/hour not 6.

                  Peter





                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Stephen Taylor
                  I haven t kept track with exact numbers, but after using 22 AH and charging for 1 hour using 220 volts I would guess my AH meter would be around 6 AH give or
                  Message 8 of 20 , Dec 14, 2004
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                    I haven't kept track with exact numbers, but after using 22 AH and charging for 1 hour using 220 volts I would guess my AH meter would be around 6 AH give or take. It certainly sounds like your having a charger problem. The AH meter light must be blinking kind of slowly whereas it should be blinking very rapidly early on.

                    Is the car getting a full charge? How long did it take to complete the full 22 AH plus 10% overcharge? If you have the half dead charger that I described in my last message then if you went much further the charger would shutdown before it even finished the charge.

                    Also didn't you have an AH meter problem. Could the batteries be getting a proper charge, but the AH meter isn't registering it properly?

                    Stephen Taylor


                    theoldcars@... wrote:

                    Hello Stephen

                    That is correct 1 Ah per 10 minutes and 6 Ah in an hour.

                    I drove the car to 22 Ah and put the charger on 220 After one hour it was
                    down to 18 Ah. I timed it because I though it looked a little slow. I thought
                    maybe the batteries being cold or old or both is why. So has anyone timed how
                    fast they do recharge after a trip or is there some specs from Solectria?

                    Don




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                  • Tom Hudson
                    You know, given the issues we are having with chargers and such, I think it would be a good idea to see if we can find someone in the US who can actually
                    Message 9 of 20 , Dec 14, 2004
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                      You know, given the "issues" we are having with chargers and such, I
                      think it would be a good idea to see if we can find someone in the US
                      who can actually diagnose and repair these Brusa chargers. We depend on
                      them big time, and when something like this happens it is critical to
                      get them repaired quickly. I don't even think Solectria has anyone
                      qualified to do serious work on them.

                      Comments? Suggestions?

                      One thing Don should do, if he can, is hook a computer up to the
                      charger's 9-pin port and see what the readings are for voltage, current,
                      battery temperature, etc. If the charger thinks the batteries are too
                      hot, it will reduce the charge rate, IIRC. Could be several reasons for
                      the symptoms he's having. He'll need the Brusa monitor program for this.

                      -Tom

                      Stephen Taylor wrote:

                      >I haven't kept track with exact numbers, but after using 22 AH and charging for 1 hour using 220 volts I would guess my AH meter would be around 6 AH give or take. It certainly sounds like your having a charger problem. The AH meter light must be blinking kind of slowly whereas it should be blinking very rapidly early on.
                      >
                      >Is the car getting a full charge? How long did it take to complete the full 22 AH plus 10% overcharge? If you have the half dead charger that I described in my last message then if you went much further the charger would shutdown before it even finished the charge.
                      >
                      >Also didn't you have an AH meter problem. Could the batteries be getting a proper charge, but the AH meter isn't registering it properly?
                      >
                      >Stephen Taylor
                      >
                      >
                      >theoldcars@... wrote:
                      >
                      >Hello Stephen
                      >
                      >That is correct 1 Ah per 10 minutes and 6 Ah in an hour.
                      >
                      >I drove the car to 22 Ah and put the charger on 220 After one hour it was
                      >down to 18 Ah. I timed it because I though it looked a little slow. I thought
                      >maybe the batteries being cold or old or both is why. So has anyone timed how
                      >fast they do recharge after a trip or is there some specs from Solectria?
                      >
                      >Don
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
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                    • theoldcars@aol.com
                      The AH meter was having problems before but that has not happened for a while and it never affected the charging rate. I just took it for a short trip. I
                      Message 10 of 20 , Dec 14, 2004
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                        The AH meter was having problems before but that has not happened for a
                        while and it never affected the charging rate.

                        I just took it for a short trip. I noticed the regen was going very fast
                        back into the pack. As fast as the charger use to work. So I got back and hooked
                        up to 220. It started charging slow then it went fast for a second then it
                        went slow. I tried unplugging it and again and it is just charging slow only.
                        Last night it took 14 hours and it was still not charged all the way from a
                        23 AH drive. So something is wrong am I going to have to send this to
                        Solectria?

                        Does anyone have the Brusa program that I can load on to my computer for
                        this?

                        Don


                        In a message dated 12/14/2004 3:11:06 PM Pacific Standard Time,
                        tomhudson@... writes:

                        You know, given the "issues" we are having with chargers and such, I
                        think it would be a good idea to see if we can find someone in the US
                        who can actually diagnose and repair these Brusa chargers. We depend on
                        them big time, and when something like this happens it is critical to
                        get them repaired quickly. I don't even think Solectria has anyone
                        qualified to do serious work on them.

                        Comments? Suggestions?

                        One thing Don should do, if he can, is hook a computer up to the
                        charger's 9-pin port and see what the readings are for voltage, current,
                        battery temperature, etc. If the charger thinks the batteries are too
                        hot, it will reduce the charge rate, IIRC. Could be several reasons for
                        the symptoms he's having. He'll need the Brusa monitor program for this.

                        -Tom

                        Stephen Taylor wrote:

                        >I haven't kept track with exact numbers, but after using 22 AH and charging
                        for 1 hour using 220 volts I would guess my AH meter would be around 6 AH
                        give or take. It certainly sounds like your having a charger problem. The AH
                        meter light must be blinking kind of slowly whereas it should be blinking
                        very rapidly early on.
                        >
                        >Is the car getting a full charge? How long did it take to complete the
                        full 22 AH plus 10% overcharge? If you have the half dead charger that I
                        described in my last message then if you went much further the charger would
                        shutdown before it even finished the charge.
                        >
                        >Also didn't you have an AH meter problem. Could the batteries be getting a
                        proper charge, but the AH meter isn't registering it properly?
                        >
                        >Stephen Taylor





                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Will Beckett
                        attached -Will Will Beckett Beckett PC Solutions 4189 Baker Ave. Palo Alto, CA 94306-3908 (650) 494-6922 phone & fax (650) 269-7011 cell
                        Message 11 of 20 , Dec 14, 2004
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                          attached


                          -Will

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                          _____

                          From: theoldcars@... [mailto:theoldcars@...]
                          Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 3:37 PM
                          To: force_ev@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [force_ev] Force Charging rate



                          The AH meter was having problems before but that has not happened for a
                          while and it never affected the charging rate.

                          I just took it for a short trip. I noticed the regen was going very fast
                          back into the pack. As fast as the charger use to work. So I got back and
                          hooked
                          up to 220. It started charging slow then it went fast for a second then it
                          went slow. I tried unplugging it and again and it is just charging slow
                          only.
                          Last night it took 14 hours and it was still not charged all the way from a

                          23 AH drive. So something is wrong am I going to have to send this to
                          Solectria?

                          Does anyone have the Brusa program that I can load on to my computer for
                          this?

                          Don


                          In a message dated 12/14/2004 3:11:06 PM Pacific Standard Time,
                          tomhudson@... writes:

                          You know, given the "issues" we are having with chargers and such, I
                          think it would be a good idea to see if we can find someone in the US
                          who can actually diagnose and repair these Brusa chargers. We depend on
                          them big time, and when something like this happens it is critical to
                          get them repaired quickly. I don't even think Solectria has anyone
                          qualified to do serious work on them.

                          Comments? Suggestions?

                          One thing Don should do, if he can, is hook a computer up to the
                          charger's 9-pin port and see what the readings are for voltage, current,
                          battery temperature, etc. If the charger thinks the batteries are too
                          hot, it will reduce the charge rate, IIRC. Could be several reasons for
                          the symptoms he's having. He'll need the Brusa monitor program for this.

                          -Tom

                          Stephen Taylor wrote:

                          >I haven't kept track with exact numbers, but after using 22 AH and
                          charging
                          for 1 hour using 220 volts I would guess my AH meter would be around 6 AH
                          give or take. It certainly sounds like your having a charger problem. The
                          AH
                          meter light must be blinking kind of slowly whereas it should be blinking
                          very rapidly early on.
                          >
                          >Is the car getting a full charge? How long did it take to complete the
                          full 22 AH plus 10% overcharge? If you have the half dead charger that I
                          described in my last message then if you went much further the charger
                          would
                          shutdown before it even finished the charge.
                          >
                          >Also didn't you have an AH meter problem. Could the batteries be getting
                          a
                          proper charge, but the AH meter isn't registering it properly?
                          >
                          >Stephen Taylor





                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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                        • Mike Phillips
                          You know, given the issues we are having with chargers and such, I think it would be a good idea to see if we can find someone in the US who can actually
                          Message 12 of 20 , Dec 15, 2004
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                            "You know, given the "issues" we are having with chargers and such, I
                            think it would be a good idea to see if we can find someone in the US
                            who can actually diagnose and repair these Brusa chargers."

                            That's what I'm trying to do. Got a charger here now. It's just a bit
                            laborsome without a schematic, but not impossible. As I unbury myself
                            from my list of projects it will get due time and hopefully make it
                            easier when the next one arrives. The motor control repairs went that
                            way for me.

                            Mike



                            --- In force_ev@yahoogroups.com, Tom Hudson <tomhudson@e...> wrote:
                            > You know, given the "issues" we are having with chargers and such, I
                            > think it would be a good idea to see if we can find someone in the US
                            > who can actually diagnose and repair these Brusa chargers. We depend on
                            > them big time, and when something like this happens it is critical to
                            > get them repaired quickly. I don't even think Solectria has anyone
                            > qualified to do serious work on them.
                            >
                            > Comments? Suggestions?
                            >
                            > One thing Don should do, if he can, is hook a computer up to the
                            > charger's 9-pin port and see what the readings are for voltage, current,
                            > battery temperature, etc. If the charger thinks the batteries are too
                            > hot, it will reduce the charge rate, IIRC. Could be several reasons for
                            > the symptoms he's having. He'll need the Brusa monitor program for this.
                            >
                            > -Tom
                            >
                            > Stephen Taylor wrote:
                            >
                            > >I haven't kept track with exact numbers, but after using 22 AH and
                            charging for 1 hour using 220 volts I would guess my AH meter would be
                            around 6 AH give or take. It certainly sounds like your having a
                            charger problem. The AH meter light must be blinking kind of slowly
                            whereas it should be blinking very rapidly early on.
                            > >
                            > >Is the car getting a full charge? How long did it take to complete
                            the full 22 AH plus 10% overcharge? If you have the half dead charger
                            that I described in my last message then if you went much further the
                            charger would shutdown before it even finished the charge.
                            > >
                            > >Also didn't you have an AH meter problem. Could the batteries be
                            getting a proper charge, but the AH meter isn't registering it properly?
                            > >
                            > >Stephen Taylor
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >theoldcars@a... wrote:
                            > >
                            > >Hello Stephen
                            > >
                            > >That is correct 1 Ah per 10 minutes and 6 Ah in an hour.
                            > >
                            > >I drove the car to 22 Ah and put the charger on 220 After one hour
                            it was
                            > >down to 18 Ah. I timed it because I though it looked a little slow.
                            I thought
                            > >maybe the batteries being cold or old or both is why. So has anyone
                            timed how
                            > >fast they do recharge after a trip or is there some specs from
                            Solectria?
                            > >
                            > >Don
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
                            > >
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                            > Thomas Hudson
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                            > http://portgardenclub.org -- Port Washington Garden Club
                            > http://portlightstation.org -- Light Station Restoration
                            > http://klanky.com -- Animation Projects
                          • Will Beckett
                            I put one of Solectria s own chargers in place of the Brusa in my mom s car and it is working well. -Will Will Beckett Beckett PC Solutions 4189 Baker Ave.
                            Message 13 of 20 , Dec 15, 2004
                            • 0 Attachment
                              I put one of Solectria's own chargers in place of the Brusa in my mom's car
                              and it is working well.


                              -Will

                              Will Beckett
                              Beckett PC Solutions
                              4189 Baker Ave.
                              Palo Alto, CA 94306-3908

                              (650) 494-6922 phone & fax
                              (650) 269-7011 cell
                              mailto:will@...
                              http://beckettpcsolutions.com <http://beckettpcsolutions.com/>

                              "Let me make it easy for you!"

                              a Business Network Int'l member http://www.paloaltobni.com
                              <http://www.paloaltobni.com/>

                              a member of the Palo Alto Chamber of Commerce http://www.paloaltochamber.com
                              <http://www.paloaltochamber.com/>

                              Support the arts, subscribe to West Bay Opera http://www.wbopera.org
                              <http://www.wbopera.org/>



                              _____

                              From: Mike Phillips [mailto:mikep_95133@...]
                              Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 12:11 PM
                              To: force_ev@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: [force_ev] Re: Force Charging rate



                              "You know, given the "issues" we are having with chargers and such, I
                              think it would be a good idea to see if we can find someone in the US
                              who can actually diagnose and repair these Brusa chargers."

                              That's what I'm trying to do. Got a charger here now. It's just a bit
                              laborsome without a schematic, but not impossible. As I unbury myself
                              from my list of projects it will get due time and hopefully make it
                              easier when the next one arrives. The motor control repairs went that
                              way for me.

                              Mike



                              --- In force_ev@yahoogroups.com, Tom Hudson <tomhudson@e...> wrote:
                              > You know, given the "issues" we are having with chargers and such, I
                              > think it would be a good idea to see if we can find someone in the US
                              > who can actually diagnose and repair these Brusa chargers. We depend on
                              > them big time, and when something like this happens it is critical to
                              > get them repaired quickly. I don't even think Solectria has anyone
                              > qualified to do serious work on them.
                              >
                              > Comments? Suggestions?
                              >
                              > One thing Don should do, if he can, is hook a computer up to the
                              > charger's 9-pin port and see what the readings are for voltage, current,
                              > battery temperature, etc. If the charger thinks the batteries are too
                              > hot, it will reduce the charge rate, IIRC. Could be several reasons for
                              > the symptoms he's having. He'll need the Brusa monitor program for this.
                              >
                              > -Tom
                              >
                              > Stephen Taylor wrote:
                              >
                              > >I haven't kept track with exact numbers, but after using 22 AH and
                              charging for 1 hour using 220 volts I would guess my AH meter would be
                              around 6 AH give or take. It certainly sounds like your having a
                              charger problem. The AH meter light must be blinking kind of slowly
                              whereas it should be blinking very rapidly early on.
                              > >
                              > >Is the car getting a full charge? How long did it take to complete
                              the full 22 AH plus 10% overcharge? If you have the half dead charger
                              that I described in my last message then if you went much further the
                              charger would shutdown before it even finished the charge.
                              > >
                              > >Also didn't you have an AH meter problem. Could the batteries be
                              getting a proper charge, but the AH meter isn't registering it properly?
                              > >
                              > >Stephen Taylor
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >theoldcars@a... wrote:
                              > >
                              > >Hello Stephen
                              > >
                              > >That is correct 1 Ah per 10 minutes and 6 Ah in an hour.
                              > >
                              > >I drove the car to 22 Ah and put the charger on 220 After one hour
                              it was
                              > >down to 18 Ah. I timed it because I though it looked a little slow.
                              I thought
                              > >maybe the batteries being cold or old or both is why. So has anyone
                              timed how
                              > >fast they do recharge after a trip or is there some specs from
                              Solectria?
                              > >
                              > >Don
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              > >
                              > >
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                              > >
                              > >
                              >
                              > --
                              > Thomas Hudson
                              > http://portdistrict5.org -- 5th District Aldermanic Website
                              > http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power & More
                              > http://portgardenclub.org -- Port Washington Garden Club
                              > http://portlightstation.org -- Light Station Restoration
                              > http://klanky.com -- Animation Projects





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                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • pattersondr2
                              Good idea,Tom, and Mike, good luck. It may be difficult to find anyone who wants to work on them, beyond their own repairs, even for a fee. Solectria has
                              Message 14 of 20 , Dec 15, 2004
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Good idea,Tom, and Mike, good luck.
                                It may be difficult to find anyone who wants to work on them, beyond
                                their own repairs, even for a fee. Solectria has confirmed that they
                                only have limited resources to repair these out of production charger
                                units.The Ah meter can also a problem.

                                Those that have worked on the chargers will describe that they are
                                "very dense" packaged, and from my experience, they are extremely
                                difficult to trouble shoot compared to conventional power electronics.
                                BRUSA (the manufacturer)will provided schematics, for a fee. I
                                recently purchased the AH meter schematics. I had a major short in the
                                regulator which took out several IC's beyond the normal arc over of
                                the high voltage leads common with many meters. Solectra had no more
                                AH meters.

                                I found my charger problem with basic trouble shooting procedures, but
                                it took some time, like Mike. Mine had a shorted zenor regulator diode
                                which was "burried" deep inside the unit on a driver board. It had to
                                remove several interconnected circuit boards and countless numbers of
                                screws and threaded stand-off's that interconnect the boards,
                                documenting the process along the way and "back-engineering" the
                                circuit design.

                                I have a second charger in another vehicle which once a year blows one
                                of the two input line fuses inside the charger, I replace the fuse and
                                it works. I know this one will also come back to haunt me, too, but I
                                am hoping it is a transient high line voltage issues with my power
                                utility.

                                I have talked to Keven at Solectra, he has a few chargers that he uses
                                for repair and no inventory of the Ah meters. BRUSA does not make
                                either anymore and has also sold the controller rights to another
                                person. BRUSA also advised that they do have another US dealer. I have
                                not contacted them on repairs of older units but I suspect they will
                                not be interested, considering the response I received from BRUSA.

                                This forum does help and thanks to those that have shared information.

                                Dave Patterson

                                --- In force_ev@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Phillips" <mikep_95133@y...> wrote:
                                >
                                > "You know, given the "issues" we are having with chargers and such, I
                                > think it would be a good idea to see if we can find someone in the US
                                > who can actually diagnose and repair these Brusa chargers."
                                >
                                > That's what I'm trying to do. Got a charger here now. It's just a bit
                                > laborsome without a schematic, but not impossible. As I unbury myself
                                > from my list of projects it will get due time and hopefully make it
                                > easier when the next one arrives. The motor control repairs went that
                                > way for me.
                                >
                                > Mike
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > --- In force_ev@yahoogroups.com, Tom Hudson <tomhudson@e...> wrote:
                                > > You know, given the "issues" we are having with chargers and such, I
                                > > think it would be a good idea to see if we can find someone in the US
                                > > who can actually diagnose and repair these Brusa chargers. We
                                depend on
                                > > them big time, and when something like this happens it is critical to
                                > > get them repaired quickly. I don't even think Solectria has anyone
                                > > qualified to do serious work on them.
                                > >
                                > > Comments? Suggestions?
                                > >
                                > > One thing Don should do, if he can, is hook a computer up to the
                                > > charger's 9-pin port and see what the readings are for voltage,
                                current,
                                > > battery temperature, etc. If the charger thinks the batteries are too
                                > > hot, it will reduce the charge rate, IIRC. Could be several
                                reasons for
                                > > the symptoms he's having. He'll need the Brusa monitor program for
                                this.
                                > >
                                > > -Tom
                                > >
                                > > Stephen Taylor wrote:
                                > >
                                > > >I haven't kept track with exact numbers, but after using 22 AH and
                                > charging for 1 hour using 220 volts I would guess my AH meter would be
                                > around 6 AH give or take. It certainly sounds like your having a
                                > charger problem. The AH meter light must be blinking kind of slowly
                                > whereas it should be blinking very rapidly early on.
                                > > >
                                > > >Is the car getting a full charge? How long did it take to complete
                                > the full 22 AH plus 10% overcharge? If you have the half dead charger
                                > that I described in my last message then if you went much further the
                                > charger would shutdown before it even finished the charge.
                                > > >
                                > > >Also didn't you have an AH meter problem. Could the batteries be
                                > getting a proper charge, but the AH meter isn't registering it properly?
                                > > >
                                > > >Stephen Taylor
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >theoldcars@a... wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > >Hello Stephen
                                > > >
                                > > >That is correct 1 Ah per 10 minutes and 6 Ah in an hour.
                                > > >
                                > > >I drove the car to 22 Ah and put the charger on 220 After one hour
                                > it was
                                > > >down to 18 Ah. I timed it because I though it looked a little slow.
                                > I thought
                                > > >maybe the batteries being cold or old or both is why. So has anyone
                                > timed how
                                > > >fast they do recharge after a trip or is there some specs from
                                > Solectria?
                                > > >
                                > > >Don
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >---------------------------------
                                > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
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                                > > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
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                                > > >
                                > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                > > >force_ev-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                > > >
                                > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                > Service.
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >---------------------------------
                                > > >Do you Yahoo!?
                                > > > All your favorites on one personal page – Try My Yahoo!
                                > > >
                                > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
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                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > >
                                > > --
                                > > Thomas Hudson
                                > > http://portdistrict5.org -- 5th District Aldermanic Website
                                > > http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power & More
                                > > http://portgardenclub.org -- Port Washington Garden Club
                                > > http://portlightstation.org -- Light Station Restoration
                                > > http://klanky.com -- Animation Projects
                              • Mike Phillips
                                Please let me know who you contacted for schematics. How much were you charged? This charger here is a Solectria that I was told was built by Brusa.
                                Message 15 of 20 , Dec 16, 2004
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Please let me know who you contacted for schematics. How much were
                                  you charged? This charger here is a Solectria that I was told was
                                  built by Brusa. Fortunately it's just one large circuit board, but
                                  it's multilayer so if an inside trace gets blown or shorted it's all
                                  over.

                                  Mike



                                  --- In force_ev@yahoogroups.com, "pattersondr2" <DRPatterson@c...>
                                  wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Good idea,Tom, and Mike, good luck.
                                  > It may be difficult to find anyone who wants to work on them, beyond
                                  > their own repairs, even for a fee. Solectria has confirmed that they
                                  > only have limited resources to repair these out of production
                                  charger
                                  > units.The Ah meter can also a problem.
                                  >
                                  > Those that have worked on the chargers will describe that they are
                                  > "very dense" packaged, and from my experience, they are extremely
                                  > difficult to trouble shoot compared to conventional power
                                  electronics.
                                  > BRUSA (the manufacturer)will provided schematics, for a fee. I
                                  > recently purchased the AH meter schematics. I had a major short in
                                  the
                                  > regulator which took out several IC's beyond the normal arc over of
                                  > the high voltage leads common with many meters. Solectra had no more
                                  > AH meters.
                                  >
                                  > I found my charger problem with basic trouble shooting procedures,
                                  but
                                  > it took some time, like Mike. Mine had a shorted zenor regulator
                                  diode
                                  > which was "burried" deep inside the unit on a driver board. It had
                                  to
                                  > remove several interconnected circuit boards and countless numbers
                                  of
                                  > screws and threaded stand-off's that interconnect the boards,
                                  > documenting the process along the way and "back-engineering" the
                                  > circuit design.
                                  >
                                  > I have a second charger in another vehicle which once a year blows
                                  one
                                  > of the two input line fuses inside the charger, I replace the fuse
                                  and
                                  > it works. I know this one will also come back to haunt me, too, but
                                  I
                                  > am hoping it is a transient high line voltage issues with my power
                                  > utility.
                                  >
                                  > I have talked to Keven at Solectra, he has a few chargers that he
                                  uses
                                  > for repair and no inventory of the Ah meters. BRUSA does not make
                                  > either anymore and has also sold the controller rights to another
                                  > person. BRUSA also advised that they do have another US dealer. I
                                  have
                                  > not contacted them on repairs of older units but I suspect they will
                                  > not be interested, considering the response I received from BRUSA.
                                  >
                                  > This forum does help and thanks to those that have shared
                                  information.
                                  >
                                  > Dave Patterson
                                  >
                                  > --- In force_ev@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Phillips" <mikep_95133@y...>
                                  wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > "You know, given the "issues" we are having with chargers and
                                  such, I
                                  > > think it would be a good idea to see if we can find someone in
                                  the US
                                  > > who can actually diagnose and repair these Brusa chargers."
                                  > >
                                  > > That's what I'm trying to do. Got a charger here now. It's just a
                                  bit
                                  > > laborsome without a schematic, but not impossible. As I unbury
                                  myself
                                  > > from my list of projects it will get due time and hopefully make
                                  it
                                  > > easier when the next one arrives. The motor control repairs went
                                  that
                                  > > way for me.
                                  > >
                                  > > Mike
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > --- In force_ev@yahoogroups.com, Tom Hudson <tomhudson@e...>
                                  wrote:
                                  > > > You know, given the "issues" we are having with chargers and
                                  such, I
                                  > > > think it would be a good idea to see if we can find someone in
                                  the US
                                  > > > who can actually diagnose and repair these Brusa chargers. We
                                  > depend on
                                  > > > them big time, and when something like this happens it is
                                  critical to
                                  > > > get them repaired quickly. I don't even think Solectria has
                                  anyone
                                  > > > qualified to do serious work on them.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Comments? Suggestions?
                                  > > >
                                  > > > One thing Don should do, if he can, is hook a computer up to the
                                  > > > charger's 9-pin port and see what the readings are for voltage,
                                  > current,
                                  > > > battery temperature, etc. If the charger thinks the batteries
                                  are too
                                  > > > hot, it will reduce the charge rate, IIRC. Could be several
                                  > reasons for
                                  > > > the symptoms he's having. He'll need the Brusa monitor program
                                  for
                                  > this.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > -Tom
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Stephen Taylor wrote:
                                  > > >
                                  > > > >I haven't kept track with exact numbers, but after using 22 AH
                                  and
                                  > > charging for 1 hour using 220 volts I would guess my AH meter
                                  would be
                                  > > around 6 AH give or take. It certainly sounds like your having a
                                  > > charger problem. The AH meter light must be blinking kind of
                                  slowly
                                  > > whereas it should be blinking very rapidly early on.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >Is the car getting a full charge? How long did it take to
                                  complete
                                  > > the full 22 AH plus 10% overcharge? If you have the half dead
                                  charger
                                  > > that I described in my last message then if you went much further
                                  the
                                  > > charger would shutdown before it even finished the charge.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >Also didn't you have an AH meter problem. Could the batteries
                                  be
                                  > > getting a proper charge, but the AH meter isn't registering it
                                  properly?
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >Stephen Taylor
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >theoldcars@a... wrote:
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >Hello Stephen
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >That is correct 1 Ah per 10 minutes and 6 Ah in an hour.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >I drove the car to 22 Ah and put the charger on 220 After one
                                  hour
                                  > > it was
                                  > > > >down to 18 Ah. I timed it because I though it looked a little
                                  slow.
                                  > > I thought
                                  > > > >maybe the batteries being cold or old or both is why. So has
                                  anyone
                                  > > timed how
                                  > > > >fast they do recharge after a trip or is there some specs from
                                  > > Solectria?
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >Don
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >---------------------------------
                                  > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                  > > > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/force_ev/
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                  > > > >force_ev-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                  > > Service.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >---------------------------------
                                  > > > >Do you Yahoo!?
                                  > > > > All your favorites on one personal page – Try My Yahoo!
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > --
                                  > > > Thomas Hudson
                                  > > > http://portdistrict5.org -- 5th District Aldermanic Website
                                  > > > http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power & More
                                  > > > http://portgardenclub.org -- Port Washington Garden Club
                                  > > > http://portlightstation.org -- Light Station Restoration
                                  > > > http://klanky.com -- Animation Projects
                                • Will Beckett
                                  Should we be looking for a replacement controller as well? -Will Will Beckett Beckett PC Solutions 4189 Baker Ave. Palo Alto, CA 94306-3908 (650) 494-6922
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Dec 16, 2004
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Should we be looking for a replacement controller as well?

                                    -Will

                                    Will Beckett
                                    Beckett PC Solutions
                                    4189 Baker Ave.
                                    Palo Alto, CA 94306-3908

                                    (650) 494-6922 phone & fax
                                    (650) 269-7011 cell
                                    mailto:will@...
                                    http://beckettpcsolutions.com <http://beckettpcsolutions.com/>

                                    "Let me make it easy for you!"

                                    a Business Network Int'l member http://www.paloaltobni.com
                                    <http://www.paloaltobni.com/>

                                    a member of the Palo Alto Chamber of Commerce http://www.paloaltochamber.com
                                    <http://www.paloaltochamber.com/>

                                    Support the arts, subscribe to West Bay Opera http://www.wbopera.org
                                    <http://www.wbopera.org/>



                                    _____

                                    From: pattersondr2 [mailto:DRPatterson@...]
                                    Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 8:41 PM
                                    To: force_ev@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: [force_ev] Re: Force Charging rate



                                    Good idea,Tom, and Mike, good luck.
                                    It may be difficult to find anyone who wants to work on them, beyond
                                    their own repairs, even for a fee. Solectria has confirmed that they
                                    only have limited resources to repair these out of production charger
                                    units.The Ah meter can also a problem.

                                    Those that have worked on the chargers will describe that they are
                                    "very dense" packaged, and from my experience, they are extremely
                                    difficult to trouble shoot compared to conventional power electronics.
                                    BRUSA (the manufacturer)will provided schematics, for a fee. I
                                    recently purchased the AH meter schematics. I had a major short in the
                                    regulator which took out several IC's beyond the normal arc over of
                                    the high voltage leads common with many meters. Solectra had no more
                                    AH meters.

                                    I found my charger problem with basic trouble shooting procedures, but
                                    it took some time, like Mike. Mine had a shorted zenor regulator diode
                                    which was "burried" deep inside the unit on a driver board. It had to
                                    remove several interconnected circuit boards and countless numbers of
                                    screws and threaded stand-off's that interconnect the boards,
                                    documenting the process along the way and "back-engineering" the
                                    circuit design.

                                    I have a second charger in another vehicle which once a year blows one
                                    of the two input line fuses inside the charger, I replace the fuse and
                                    it works. I know this one will also come back to haunt me, too, but I
                                    am hoping it is a transient high line voltage issues with my power
                                    utility.

                                    I have talked to Keven at Solectra, he has a few chargers that he uses
                                    for repair and no inventory of the Ah meters. BRUSA does not make
                                    either anymore and has also sold the controller rights to another
                                    person. BRUSA also advised that they do have another US dealer. I have
                                    not contacted them on repairs of older units but I suspect they will
                                    not be interested, considering the response I received from BRUSA.

                                    This forum does help and thanks to those that have shared information.

                                    Dave Patterson

                                    --- In force_ev@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Phillips" <mikep_95133@y...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > "You know, given the "issues" we are having with chargers and such, I
                                    > think it would be a good idea to see if we can find someone in the US
                                    > who can actually diagnose and repair these Brusa chargers."
                                    >
                                    > That's what I'm trying to do. Got a charger here now. It's just a bit
                                    > laborsome without a schematic, but not impossible. As I unbury myself
                                    > from my list of projects it will get due time and hopefully make it
                                    > easier when the next one arrives. The motor control repairs went that
                                    > way for me.
                                    >
                                    > Mike
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > --- In force_ev@yahoogroups.com, Tom Hudson <tomhudson@e...> wrote:
                                    > > You know, given the "issues" we are having with chargers and such, I
                                    > > think it would be a good idea to see if we can find someone in the US
                                    > > who can actually diagnose and repair these Brusa chargers. We
                                    depend on
                                    > > them big time, and when something like this happens it is critical to
                                    > > get them repaired quickly. I don't even think Solectria has anyone
                                    > > qualified to do serious work on them.
                                    > >
                                    > > Comments? Suggestions?
                                    > >
                                    > > One thing Don should do, if he can, is hook a computer up to the
                                    > > charger's 9-pin port and see what the readings are for voltage,
                                    current,
                                    > > battery temperature, etc. If the charger thinks the batteries are too
                                    > > hot, it will reduce the charge rate, IIRC. Could be several
                                    reasons for
                                    > > the symptoms he's having. He'll need the Brusa monitor program for
                                    this.
                                    > >
                                    > > -Tom
                                    > >
                                    > > Stephen Taylor wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > >I haven't kept track with exact numbers, but after using 22 AH and
                                    > charging for 1 hour using 220 volts I would guess my AH meter would be
                                    > around 6 AH give or take. It certainly sounds like your having a
                                    > charger problem. The AH meter light must be blinking kind of slowly
                                    > whereas it should be blinking very rapidly early on.
                                    > > >
                                    > > >Is the car getting a full charge? How long did it take to complete
                                    > the full 22 AH plus 10% overcharge? If you have the half dead charger
                                    > that I described in my last message then if you went much further the
                                    > charger would shutdown before it even finished the charge.
                                    > > >
                                    > > >Also didn't you have an AH meter problem. Could the batteries be
                                    > getting a proper charge, but the AH meter isn't registering it properly?
                                    > > >
                                    > > >Stephen Taylor
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >theoldcars@a... wrote:
                                    > > >
                                    > > >Hello Stephen
                                    > > >
                                    > > >That is correct 1 Ah per 10 minutes and 6 Ah in an hour.
                                    > > >
                                    > > >I drove the car to 22 Ah and put the charger on 220 After one hour
                                    > it was
                                    > > >down to 18 Ah. I timed it because I though it looked a little slow.
                                    > I thought
                                    > > >maybe the batteries being cold or old or both is why. So has anyone
                                    > timed how
                                    > > >fast they do recharge after a trip or is there some specs from
                                    > Solectria?
                                    > > >
                                    > > >Don
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >---------------------------------
                                    > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    > > >
                                    > > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                    > > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/force_ev/
                                    > > >
                                    > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                    > > >force_ev-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                    > Service.
                                    > > >
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                                    > > >
                                    > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    > > >
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                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > >
                                    > > --
                                    > > Thomas Hudson
                                    > > http://portdistrict5.org -- 5th District Aldermanic Website
                                    > > http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power & More
                                    > > http://portgardenclub.org -- Port Washington Garden Club
                                    > > http://portlightstation.org -- Light Station Restoration
                                    > > http://klanky.com -- Animation Projects





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                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Stephen Taylor
                                    I thought Solectria makes a compatible controller for the Force. Stephen Taylor Will Beckett wrote: Should we be looking for a replacement
                                    Message 17 of 20 , Dec 16, 2004
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      I thought Solectria makes a compatible controller for the Force.

                                      Stephen Taylor


                                      Will Beckett <will@...> wrote:
                                      Should we be looking for a replacement controller as well?

                                      -Will

                                      Will Beckett
                                      Beckett PC Solutions
                                      4189 Baker Ave.
                                      Palo Alto, CA 94306-3908

                                      (650) 494-6922 phone & fax
                                      (650) 269-7011 cell
                                      mailto:will@...
                                      http://beckettpcsolutions.com <http://beckettpcsolutions.com/>

                                      "Let me make it easy for you!"

                                      a Business Network Int'l member http://www.paloaltobni.com
                                      <http://www.paloaltobni.com/>

                                      a member of the Palo Alto Chamber of Commerce http://www.paloaltochamber.com
                                      <http://www.paloaltochamber.com/>

                                      Support the arts, subscribe to West Bay Opera http://www.wbopera.org
                                      <http://www.wbopera.org/>



                                      _____

                                      From: pattersondr2 [mailto:DRPatterson@...]
                                      Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 8:41 PM
                                      To: force_ev@yahoogroups.com
                                      Subject: [force_ev] Re: Force Charging rate



                                      Good idea,Tom, and Mike, good luck.
                                      It may be difficult to find anyone who wants to work on them, beyond
                                      their own repairs, even for a fee. Solectria has confirmed that they
                                      only have limited resources to repair these out of production charger
                                      units.The Ah meter can also a problem.

                                      Those that have worked on the chargers will describe that they are
                                      "very dense" packaged, and from my experience, they are extremely
                                      difficult to trouble shoot compared to conventional power electronics.
                                      BRUSA (the manufacturer)will provided schematics, for a fee. I
                                      recently purchased the AH meter schematics. I had a major short in the
                                      regulator which took out several IC's beyond the normal arc over of
                                      the high voltage leads common with many meters. Solectra had no more
                                      AH meters.

                                      I found my charger problem with basic trouble shooting procedures, but
                                      it took some time, like Mike. Mine had a shorted zenor regulator diode
                                      which was "burried" deep inside the unit on a driver board. It had to
                                      remove several interconnected circuit boards and countless numbers of
                                      screws and threaded stand-off's that interconnect the boards,
                                      documenting the process along the way and "back-engineering" the
                                      circuit design.

                                      I have a second charger in another vehicle which once a year blows one
                                      of the two input line fuses inside the charger, I replace the fuse and
                                      it works. I know this one will also come back to haunt me, too, but I
                                      am hoping it is a transient high line voltage issues with my power
                                      utility.

                                      I have talked to Keven at Solectra, he has a few chargers that he uses
                                      for repair and no inventory of the Ah meters. BRUSA does not make
                                      either anymore and has also sold the controller rights to another
                                      person. BRUSA also advised that they do have another US dealer. I have
                                      not contacted them on repairs of older units but I suspect they will
                                      not be interested, considering the response I received from BRUSA.

                                      This forum does help and thanks to those that have shared information.

                                      Dave Patterson

                                      --- In force_ev@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Phillips" <mikep_95133@y...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > "You know, given the "issues" we are having with chargers and such, I
                                      > think it would be a good idea to see if we can find someone in the US
                                      > who can actually diagnose and repair these Brusa chargers."
                                      >
                                      > That's what I'm trying to do. Got a charger here now. It's just a bit
                                      > laborsome without a schematic, but not impossible. As I unbury myself
                                      > from my list of projects it will get due time and hopefully make it
                                      > easier when the next one arrives. The motor control repairs went that
                                      > way for me.
                                      >
                                      > Mike
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > --- In force_ev@yahoogroups.com, Tom Hudson <tomhudson@e...> wrote:
                                      > > You know, given the "issues" we are having with chargers and such, I
                                      > > think it would be a good idea to see if we can find someone in the US
                                      > > who can actually diagnose and repair these Brusa chargers. We
                                      depend on
                                      > > them big time, and when something like this happens it is critical to
                                      > > get them repaired quickly. I don't even think Solectria has anyone
                                      > > qualified to do serious work on them.
                                      > >
                                      > > Comments? Suggestions?
                                      > >
                                      > > One thing Don should do, if he can, is hook a computer up to the
                                      > > charger's 9-pin port and see what the readings are for voltage,
                                      current,
                                      > > battery temperature, etc. If the charger thinks the batteries are too
                                      > > hot, it will reduce the charge rate, IIRC. Could be several
                                      reasons for
                                      > > the symptoms he's having. He'll need the Brusa monitor program for
                                      this.
                                      > >
                                      > > -Tom
                                      > >
                                      > > Stephen Taylor wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > >I haven't kept track with exact numbers, but after using 22 AH and
                                      > charging for 1 hour using 220 volts I would guess my AH meter would be
                                      > around 6 AH give or take. It certainly sounds like your having a
                                      > charger problem. The AH meter light must be blinking kind of slowly
                                      > whereas it should be blinking very rapidly early on.
                                      > > >
                                      > > >Is the car getting a full charge? How long did it take to complete
                                      > the full 22 AH plus 10% overcharge? If you have the half dead charger
                                      > that I described in my last message then if you went much further the
                                      > charger would shutdown before it even finished the charge.
                                      > > >
                                      > > >Also didn't you have an AH meter problem. Could the batteries be
                                      > getting a proper charge, but the AH meter isn't registering it properly?
                                      > > >
                                      > > >Stephen Taylor
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >theoldcars@a... wrote:
                                      > > >
                                      > > >Hello Stephen
                                      > > >
                                      > > >That is correct 1 Ah per 10 minutes and 6 Ah in an hour.
                                      > > >
                                      > > >I drove the car to 22 Ah and put the charger on 220 After one hour
                                      > it was
                                      > > >down to 18 Ah. I timed it because I though it looked a little slow.
                                      > I thought
                                      > > >maybe the batteries being cold or old or both is why. So has anyone
                                      > timed how
                                      > > >fast they do recharge after a trip or is there some specs from
                                      > Solectria?
                                      > > >
                                      > > >Don
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >---------------------------------
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                                      > > >
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                                      > > >
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                                      > > >
                                      > > >---------------------------------
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                                      > > >
                                      > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > >
                                      > > --
                                      > > Thomas Hudson
                                      > > http://portdistrict5.org -- 5th District Aldermanic Website
                                      > > http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power & More
                                      > > http://portgardenclub.org -- Port Washington Garden Club
                                      > > http://portlightstation.org -- Light Station Restoration
                                      > > http://klanky.com -- Animation Projects





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                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • David Roden (Akron OH USA)
                                      ... I m not sure that he s an official US dealer, but Victor of Metric Mind sells Brusa products and does seem to have some kind of factory connection.
                                      Message 18 of 20 , Dec 22, 2004
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        On 16 Dec 2004 at 4:40, pattersondr2 wrote:

                                        > BRUSA also advised that they do have another US dealer.

                                        I'm not sure that he's an "official" US dealer, but Victor of Metric Mind
                                        sells Brusa products and does seem to have some kind of factory connection.

                                        http://www.metricmind.com/charger.htm

                                        I doubt that he could support chargers or inverters other than the ones he
                                        sells, but you could contact him and ask.
                                      • Stephen Taylor
                                        Victor does not support the older NLG4 chargers and neither does Brusa. I went thru that last year when my NiCD NLG4 died. I ended up purchasing a NLG5 thru
                                        Message 19 of 20 , Dec 23, 2004
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Victor does not support the older NLG4 chargers and neither does Brusa. I went thru that last year when my NiCD NLG4 died. I ended up purchasing a NLG5 thru Victor, but also got a used NLG4 from Otmar.

                                          Stephen Taylor



                                          "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <roden@...> wrote:On 16 Dec 2004 at 4:40, pattersondr2 wrote:

                                          > BRUSA also advised that they do have another US dealer.

                                          I'm not sure that he's an "official" US dealer, but Victor of Metric Mind
                                          sells Brusa products and does seem to have some kind of factory connection.

                                          http://www.metricmind.com/charger.htm

                                          I doubt that he could support chargers or inverters other than the ones he
                                          sells, but you could contact him and ask.



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                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • Peter Belden
                                          Don, Right now it s my mom who drives the car down in Palo Alto at her house since I live in San Francisco and don t have parking. So I don t want to burden
                                          Message 20 of 20 , Jan 5, 2005
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            Don,

                                            Right now it's my mom who drives the car down in Palo Alto at her house since I live in San Francisco and don't have parking. So I don't want to burden her with checking the car repeatedly to see when it's reached a full charge. But the next time I drive the car I can try to remember to time it.

                                            Hope the problem is getting better.

                                            Peter

                                            theoldcars@... wrote:

                                            Hello Peter

                                            Next time you come back after a trip could you time it?

                                            Thanks
                                            Don

                                            In a message dated 12/13/2004 6:43:06 PM Pacific Standard Time,
                                            pbelden@... writes:


                                            I also fall into the user category not the techie one,
                                            but I'm pretty sure my force charges at a rate closer
                                            to 10AH/hour not 6.

                                            Peter





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