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9660Re: [solectria_ev] RE: Oasis Firefly Batteries

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  • Paul Dove
    Feb 4, 2014
      Keep preaching Don. You are spot on. lead is dead. One needs only to compare energy density, cycle life, and depth of discharge to draw these conclusions.

      Sent from my iPad

      On Feb 3, 2014, at 2:24 PM, theoldcars@... wrote:


      Hate to beat a dead horse, but its not even close when you figure all the impact of the weight difference.
      I would notice the change in performance with just one added passenger in the Force. There was one time I had three average sized adults besides myself. I was shocked how much the difference was. On hills I could hardly keep up with normal traffic with foot to the floor in performance setting.
      The 60AH CALB 52 cell pack is about 224 pounds. The Firefly 13 battery pack is 975 pounds which is 751 pounds more weight then the CALB 60AH pack. This would have a huge impact not just on speed but on cycle life. The difference in weight is going to be huge over a period of years. I have never seen any battery do better with increased amp loads.
      Also weight affects costs. I have been shipping the CALB cells all over the United States. Weight also adds a lot to shipping costs and its not just a few dollars.
      Even if the Firefly is 77AH its going to use more energy just moving the additional 750 pounds of its own weight. The CALB average 65AH per test sheets is not affected by higher loads like lead. If you look at the capacity drop on the Firefly site they show a very significant drop in useable capacity under heavy loads. With lead the Force drives more like an ICE with the power setting to full and foot to the floor. However this will be at much higher loads then the 77AH rating.
      Its also harder on the rest of the car including the motor and controller to lug 750 pounds around.
      Added weight is going to require a higher amp load from the pack for the same performance. This over time will lower cycle life.
      From the Firefly web site.
      "Superior Cycle Life Most lead-acid batteries show a drop-off in
      performance after 200 deep discharge cycles. Testing shows that
      Oasis batteries are morereliable and last over 600 cycles."
      Even if the cycle life of the Firefly is 1000 cycles. As Rick pointed out the 60AH pack is around the same price. The CALB pack would have extra money to pay shipping at the Firefly price.  
      I would expect at least two to three times the cycle life over lead even if the Firefly was 1000 cycles. The cost is less for the LiFePo4 and you lose all that weight. Which moves the Force closer to the performance of an ICE . With the final cost one half to one third of lead.
      I see nothing about the Firefly being better and in fact would be going backwards. There is also the unknown of how long will it really last with EV loads. I waited for several years after a couple of drivers using CALB cells proved the cost per mile was less then lead. I trust EV drivers a lot more then battery manufacturers.
      At this time for an EV I am not aware of any battery better then the CALB cells for the money.
      Unless its to answer a question I will not post anymore on this thread.
      Don Blazer
      In a message dated 2/3/2014 10:17:55 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, rick@... writes:

      Wow. I gotta think that's a product that just a couple years too late. 77Ah at 100amp draw for $325. You can buy four 60Ah CALB cells--which will easily do 180amps--for around the same price. They'll only weigh 25 pounds and should be good for 2000 cycles.


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