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4100Re: [solectria_ev] Re: Overhaul Motor recommendations

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  • Jay Grossman
    Jul 2, 2008
    • 0 Attachment
      Thanks for the info.
      Much more impressive when this is done by high school students as opposed to MIT engineering students. Although the age difference is not that great there must have been a vast difference in the available resources and support.
      Jay H Grossman 

      ----- Original Message ----
      From: Wolf <wolf@...>
      To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Tuesday, July 1, 2008 8:44:45 PM
      Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Re: Overhaul Motor recommendations

      I went to Columbus North High School, which is a vocational highschool in
      Columbus Indiana.

      I helped build Solar Stealth 1, 2, and 3... and provided support and parts
      for 4. :)

      We raced in the Dell Winston Solar Challenge, and once in the Tour de Sol
      (shipping for the car over to australia was the prize for winning the
      Solar Challenge).

      The Solectria BLDC motor powered the first and second car.

      Then we switched to a New Generation Hub Motor which is still being used

      Here is the 4th version of the car (althow the number on the car
      incremented each year, this was the 4th chassis), with the New Gen motor:
      http://blog. wired.com/ cars/2007/ 07/green- flag-drop. html

      The New Gen motor actuly had an adjustable airgap between the rotor and
      the stator, so I built them a little controller for to maximize the RPM by
      adjusting the gap:
      http://www.wolftron ix.com/gap

      Link to the race:
      http://www.winstons olar.org

      There archives only go back to 2003:
      http://www.winstons olar.org/ challenge/ teams2003. shtml

      I was on the team 96, 97, 98, and helping in 99 (I was going to collage

      2003 was the last year the High School had a team (my youngest brother was
      team captin, so it started with me, and ended with my brother), the car is
      now with a church youth group that is restoring it, when I visit Columbus,
      I will stop by and help them out. :)

      A google search turned up the version 3 car:
      http://bp2.blogger. com/_zE_78rEbbkc /RfdZAVxsRVI/ AAAAAAAABdQ/ p9vNR9TwRbs/ s1600-h/9+ -+Solar+Stealth. jpg

      I can't find any on-line pics of the early versions of the car, it was 10+
      years ago, digital cameras where quite rare...

      *wags his tail*
      www.wolftronix. com

      > Wolf,
      > As an aside can you tell me about the 3 wheel solar car you worked on.
      > EVA/DC has restored the MIT Aztec solar car a '94 competitor in the Tour
      > de Sol and I wonder if you have any knowledge about this vehicle. Your
      > vehicle description sounds similar.
      > Jay H Grossman
      > ----- Original Message ----
      > From: Wolf <wolf@wolftronix. com>
      > To: solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com
      > Sent: Monday, June 30, 2008 8:12:47 PM
      > Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Re: Overhaul Motor recommendations
      > I just remembered why we where adjusting the sensor... :)
      > Our solar car had 3 wheels on it, the two in the front steered, and the
      > one in the back was powered by the motor.
      > When they made the motor mount for the motor, they placed it infront of
      > the wheel, and it was chain drive to the rear wheel, the other side had he
      > brake caliper and brake disc.
      > When they did this they choose to place the output shaft on the right side
      > of the car (right side drive).
      > When I wired up the car according to the manual, when the switch was in
      > the "forward" position our car went backwards.
      > No big deal, we just flipped the wiring on the switch, and all was good...
      > However our performance numbers did not match what was expected of the
      > motor. So we called up Solectria, and they helped trouble shoot the
      > problem. Then they found out that the motor was mounted backwards.
      > The motor sensors where actuly slightly advanced to account for the
      > controller's feedback lag, so the motor did actuly have a perfered forward
      > direction.
      > We had to adjust the circuit board with the hall sensors on it, to make
      > the motor more efficent in our "forward" direction, it was like 3 or 4 arc
      > seconds, but it made a big difference in motor efficency. :)
      > Wolf
      > *wags his tail*
      > www.wolftronix. com
      >> There is a procdure that lines up the hall sensors. I remember doing it
      >> once on a solectria 5HP BLDC motor on a solar car...
      >> This will find all the stator coils (poles):
      >> It involved applying a low voltage, like 12 volts to one coil thru a
      >> resistor to limit the current to 1 or so amp, the rotor will cog to line
      >> up the magnet with the stator. Then you mark the shaft relation to the
      >> housing. Then turn the motor by hand till it snaps to the next cog, then
      >> using the same mark on the rotor you place another mark on the housing.
      >> Keep rotating and marking till you over lap an exsiting one.
      >> Then reverse the voltage on the same coil and repeate the procedure.
      >> Then hook up the low voltage to the next coil. (use a different color
      >> mark)
      >> Repeate the same process for all the coils (some coils will yeild the
      >> same
      >> results, these are the ones that can be connected in series or parallel,
      >> if you have 6 wires exposed from the motor).
      >> The three sensors should line up with three consecutive marks you made
      >> on
      >> the housing.
      >> Procedure to find the magnets N/S magnets on the rotor.
      >> Apply the low voltage to one of the coils, the rotor will cog an line up
      >> with a one of the marks you made on the housing. Circle the mark on the
      >> housing. Then rotate the motor shaft by hand to the next cog. Transfer
      >> the
      >> circled mark to the shaft. Repeat this till the marks over lap. The
      >> marks
      >> on the shaft will be the locations of all of one type of magnets (North
      >> or
      >> South, by definition, if the motor coils are marked + and - and you have
      >> the positive voltage connected ot the + terminal they will be the North
      >> magnets).
      >> Reverse the voltage and repeate the procedure, this will find the
      >> opposite
      >> poles.
      >> When you are done, you should know where all the N/S magnets are, and
      >> you
      >> can align the sense magent to the rotor, it should have the same number
      >> of
      >> poles as the rotor.
      >> Note: this is from memory, of something we did about 10 years ago to
      >> confirm that our motor was adjusted right... I do remember a division by
      >> three might be needed for the magnet locations... It should make sence
      >> when all the marks are on the rotor (shaft) and the stator (housing).
      >> Hope this helps. :)
      >> Wolf
      >> *wags his tail*
      >> www.wolftronix. com
      >>> Charles Bliss:
      >>> To recap:? Your brushless DC motor has a permanent magnet rotor.
      >>> Using the analogy of a clock face you have:
      >>> S pole (12:00 - 3:00)
      >>> N pole (3:00 - 6:00)
      >>> S pole (6:00 - 9:00)
      >>> N pole (9:00 - 12:00)
      >>> About how many degrees is the interpole gap at 12:00, 3:00, 6:00 and
      >>> 9:00?
      >>> Also, when you look at the stator on-end, how many pole teeth are there
      >>> in
      >>> the stator metal?
      >>> Sincerely,
      >>> Gary Carlson
      >>> gjc0@...
      >>> -----Original Message-----
      >>> From: Charles Bliss <cbliss@cbliss. com>
      >>> To: solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com
      >>> Sent: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 7:54 am
      >>> Subject: RE: [solectria_ev] Re: Overhaul Motor recommendations
      >>> I am pretty sure that I need to modify or replace the sensors. At the
      >>> minimum, all the wires from the 3 hall effect sensors are brought to
      >>> the
      >>> controller in the original. In the new controller, there are only 6
      >>> leads
      >>> required, +/- supply and the three phases. The original sensor is a
      >>> mass
      >>> of
      >>> machined epoxy. The magnet is four pole 2N, 2S and the sensor looks
      >>> like
      >>> 30
      >>> deg separation of the three pickups.
      >>> Any information / help will be appreciated.
      >>> From: solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:solectria_ ev@ yahoogroups.
      >>> com]
      >>> On
      >>> Behalf Of ldr214
      >>> Sent: Monday, June 30, 2008 7:41 AM
      >>> To: solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com
      >>> Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: Overhaul Motor recommendations
      >>> Solectria had a lot of different suppliers and changed many things as
      >>> the cars evolved. It would be wise for all of us to post specifics
      >>> when we have a problem or comment. Even amoung the rather similiar 96
      >>> and up Force productiuon there are still variations, such as nicad,
      >>> chargers, avcon inlets and so on.
      >>> Wolf which motor are you referring to in your post? I don't know if
      >>> the truck used the same one as in the 97 Force (ACgtx20).
      >>> Kruspan has some support for disks and sensors.
      >>> Mike
      >>> 97
      >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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