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3446Re: [SPAM] Re: [solectria_ev] Another AH Counter Box Short

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  • David Patterson
    Jan 13, 2008
    • 0 Attachment
      Doug:
      Would suggest you disconnect power to AH meter (remove 2 amp fuse) until you have time to investigate edge of AH board. When in regen and at end of charge cycle, battery voltage is much greater than 156 volt nominal and when you regen the higher voltage may be starting to break down the circuit board and will eventually short at all voltages.


      David Patterson
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Doug Jackson
      To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2008 2:43 PM
      Subject: [SPAM] Re: [solectria_ev] Another AH Counter Box Short


      I hate it when someone has a problem and suddenly others have similar
      problems. I think these cars are secretly communicating with each
      other.

      Yes, I to have started having an aH display problem on my '99 Force.
      For several weeks I have noticed a buzzing sound coming from that
      area under the dashboard whenever I go into regen. It didn't happen
      all the time and it varied in volume and intensity. I have been
      dealing with a regen/brake light relay problem and assumed it was
      from that since they are close together under the dashboard.

      A couple of days ago, the aH counter counter started resetting itself
      to zero. I first noticed it when I would come back to the car after
      parking it to go into a shop. Then I started noticing it when it
      went into regen mode. Then it started happening seemingly randomly.

      I'm still trying to decide how to approach the problem but my first
      inclination is to disconnect the aH counter from the fuse box. I
      don't want to take a chance of shorting something and then having a
      major repair issue. Then I will look for advice from the collective
      wisdom of this list.

      I also have two batteries which PakTrakr indicated as failing. I
      replaced them yesterday with a couple of used ones from another Force
      owner who just replaced his whole pack. I'm just trying to buy
      time. I don't think that the aH counter problem is related but I
      need a day or two to be sure.

      Doug Jackson
      adjackson3.org

      On Jan 12, 2008, at 5:57 PM, Rex Allison wrote:

      > Thank you for the summary.
      >
      > When I first bought my Force the AH meter fuse was blown and I
      > replaced it and haven't had a problem for two years (and it came
      > from the East Coast to California) this has always been a mystery
      > but moisture could have been the cause. The interesting thing is
      > that we just had some torrential rains for the past week and now it
      > is resetting to zero after each trip. I'm wondering if this is due
      > to moisture and a precursor to the shorting problem.
      >
      > Rex
      >
      > ----- Original Message ----
      > From: Joshua Goldstein <jg@...>
      > To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 12:12:59 PM
      > Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Another AH Counter Box Short
      >
      > All,
      > I've successfully repaired my amp hour meter using David Patterson's
      > excellent information. I thought I would post a summary since this
      > seems to be a common problem.
      >
      > SYMPTOMS: A dead AH meter, a blown 2A high-voltage fuse under the
      > hood,
      > an intact fuse on the AH box circuit board, a lot of scorching where
      > pins 1 and 2 come into the board with high voltage, and a short
      > circuit
      > across those 2 pins.
      > As a reminder, the 2A fuse under the hood is on the passenger side,
      > rear-ish with a set of 4 high-voltage fuses -- see my earlier post
      > about
      > getting the right fuse in the right place.
      >
      > CAUSE: Water condenses inside the AH controller box at the point where
      > the red and black wires come in (1 and 2 connectors) carrying the
      > battery voltage of 156V. It shorts and scorches everything around.
      > This may be an East Coast problem owing to humidity.
      >
      > PARTS: You will need a new 2A, 250V fuse, a new 1000 ohm, 1/4 watt
      > resistor (both available at Radio Shack), and your soldering stuff
      > or a
      > local electronics repair shop (as I used).
      >
      > PROCEDURE: The AH controller box is located behind the dash. Access it
      > as described in the service manual (don't forget to unplug the car and
      > disconnect the Anderson service connect near those fuses under the
      > hood). Basically remove three screws, pull out the lower dash cover
      > from the top left, pull out two plastic plugs and remove a piece of
      > styrofoam, then remove four bolts and a metal plate. You'll see the
      > black plastic controller box inside. Remove the smaller of the two
      > connectors that are at opposite ends of the box, and then follow the
      > larger one along past a lumpy thing to another connector and remove it
      > there. When you have the box out you can disconnect this lumpy
      > connector wire from the box; both will need repair.
      > Inside the lumpy part of the wire, under insulating tape, you will
      > find the remains of a small resistor, probably just the ends with the
      > middle completely vaporized. Clean things up, replace it with the new
      > resistor and wrap it back up.
      > Remove four small bolts at the end of the controller box and gently
      > pull the circuit board out along a track inside the box. Where pins 1
      > and 2 come onto the board, clean up all the scorching. Now apply the
      > Patterson Method: Isolate the area of the short from any incoming
      > voltage and bypass that area by running wire from screw connector (for
      > #1 pin) to inside-board fuse holder. Coat with clear RTV to further
      > isolate and prevent a recurrence. Check that the fuse on the board is
      > still good; if so the rest of the board should be fine. (The little
      > vaporized resistor acted as a fuse before the fuse did.)
      > Put everything back together, replace the blown 2A fuse under the
      > hood, and add your name to the list of people who owe David
      > Patterson a
      > favor in our next life.
      > Happy driving,
      > Joshua Goldstein ('99 Force)
      >
      > David Patterson wrote:
      > > Joshua:
      > > Well your's is about the fifth one I have heard about or repaired
      > myself. I would suggest you first try someone locally, it is not
      > too difficult to isolate and rewire directly from the screw
      > terminal on the back of the circuit board to the on board fuse
      > holder. (Check this fuse also, 100ma, if you have not done so, it
      > should be OK if only connector shorting problem). As noted, coat
      > end of board with RTV or equivalent and fully isolate any remaining
      > positive voltage back into the "chared" areas.
      > >
      > > The inline filter is easy to recognize. Follow the red (?) lead
      > from the AH meter box, back into the conversion wiring. It may be
      > cabled with tie wraps. It is about 1 inch or more in diameter,
      > several inches long and wrapped with black electrical tape. My
      > experience, It will have to be repaired also (~ 1000 ohm 1/4 watt
      > resistor) but the "filter" can be unplugged and removed for repair
      > with the control box.
      > >
      > > Again, I think part of the failure mechanism is moisture and cars
      > that are or have been on the East coast, or other high humidity
      > areas, may see this failure, dryer climates, it may not be a problem.
      > >
      > > Dave
      > >
      > >
      > > ----- Original Message -----
      > > From: joshuasgoldstein
      > > To: solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com
      > > Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 5:24 PM
      > > Subject: [solectria_ev] Another AH Counter Box Short
      > >
      > >
      > > David Patterson and everyone:
      > > My AH meter died ('99 Force) and it turned out to be _exactly_ the
      > > problem described in the recent exchange between David Patterson and
      > > Stephen Taylor. As David noted, the AH meter seems to be a weak link
      > > that many of us will need to deal with.
      > > The symptoms were a blown 2A high-voltage fuse under the hood, an
      > > intact fuse on the AH box circuit board, a lot of scorching where
      > pins
      > > 1 and 2 come into the board with high voltage, and a short circuit
      > > across those 2 pins.
      > > My question is where to get the board repaired. I can try
      > > Solectria (Azure Dynamics) and wait quite a while. Or maybe David
      > > wants to earn some money doing these for us as they fail one by
      > one??
      > > Or should I do what Stephen did and try to find a local
      > > electronics- minded person? Any advice?
      > > And the second question is, do I need to find and repair the
      > > "filter" described in the earlier post? If so is there any more info
      > > available about how to get to it and remove it from the vehicle?
      > > Thanks!
      > > - Joshua Goldstein
      > >
      > > --- In solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com, "David Patterson"
      > > <DRPatterson@ ...> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Stephen:
      > > > Long answer:
      > > > I have had some success in repairing the shorting problem at or
      > near
      > > the connector on the circuit board. If the 100 ma fuse inside is
      > good,
      > > chances are the board/circuit is OK and the filter resistor acted
      > as a
      > > fuse when input shorted over at edge of circuit board. Look at that
      > > area for burned board traces, water trails, etc. I isolated and
      > > bypassed that area and ran wire from screw connector to inside board
      > > fuse holder after cleaning up burnt area. Coated with clear RTV to
      > > further isolate.
      > > >
      > > > You also have another 2 amp fuse for the AH meter under the
      > hood, in
      > > added fuse box.
      > > >
      > > > I am not sure that the resistor was 1000 ohms but when short was
      > > repaired, resistor replaced, unit is working OK. Filter is not
      > > documented in any diagrams I have seen.
      > > >
      > > > Short answer:
      > > > You may be able to save the unit, It is worth giving it a look. I
      > > don't think BRUSA makes the meter anymore, other brands are
      > available.
      > > See Xantrex Link 10 product for example.
      > > >
      > > > David Patterson
      > > > ----- Original Message -----
      > > > From: Stephen Taylor
      > > > To: solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com
      > > > Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 8:52 PM
      > > > Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] AH Counter
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Thanks David. Looks like you are right. Apparently there was a
      > > short as there is a little blackened area inside. Is this
      > something I
      > > could get fixed or is the unit toast? I'm also assuming there are no
      > > replacement parts available for this anymore.
      > > >
      > > > Stephen Taylor
      > > >
      > > > David Patterson <DRPatterson@ ...> wrote:
      > > > The "lump" is a filter added by Solectria on the DC to the AH
      > > meter primary feed. Mine was chared but I replaced with a 1000
      > ohm 1/4
      > > watt. The capacitor is 47 ufd . The resistor als acts as a fuse in
      > > this installation. There is a 100 ma (0.1) amp inside the AH
      > > controller box under the dash. If the resistor went, you may have a
      > > short. Open counter box and check circuit board under connecto;,
      > very
      > > close foil pattern and have seen several short there as a result of
      > > moisture.
      > > >
      > > > Hope this helps.
      > > >
      > > > ----- Original Message -----
      > > > From: Stephen Taylor
      > > > To: solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com
      > > > Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 3:37 PM
      > > > Subject: [solectria_ev] AH Counter
      > > >
      > > > My AH counter died a while back and I am just now trying to
      > > trouble shoot it. So far I have determined that the pack voltage
      > isn't
      > > getting to the AH counter box. The voltage, however, is present
      > on the
      > > car side of the 4 pin Deutch connector. I disconnected the deutch
      > and
      > > pulled the box out. I noted that there was a big lump between the
      > > connector and the box screw terminals so I cut that open and found
      > > that the Red Pack Positive Wire was broken. With my bad eyesight I
      > > thought I should just fix the break, but as I got to working I noted
      > > that whatever was broken looked more like some kind of resistor or
      > > something. It has a blue dot on the top and isn't more than an
      > eighth
      > > of an inch long.
      > > >
      > > > Does anyone know what it is (including its value/stats) and where
      > > to get a replacement.
      > > >
      > > > Stephen Taylor
      > > >
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      >
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