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1721Re: Who has an NiMH Force?

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  • laminar1314
    Nov 28, 2005
    • 0 Attachment
      My Rav has a fairly sophisticated battery cooling system. When I
      looked into putting the Panasonics in my Force, it became apparent
      why. NiMH has a high auto-discharge rate which begins immediately
      after a full charge. This is a temperature dependant exothermic
      reaction. The rate of discharge increases as temperature goes up.
      Thus a "runaway" reaction is possible. Cooling acts as a control rod
      to quench the autodischarge rate. Study the Rav and plan carefully.
      A call to Panasonic engineers might be interesting. I too have many
      questions.

      Ken Martin



      --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "Noel P. Luneau" <nluneau@p...> wrote:
      >
      > Thanks Anil!
      >
      >
      >
      > Just a couple of questions... :-)
      >
      >
      >
      > 1. Where are you buying your Panasonic NiMH batteries?
      > 2. Do you have a charging profile for your charger for the NiMH
      > batteries?
      > 3. Are you going to program your charger and controller?
      > 4. Are you going to modify your battery boxes or build new ones?
      > 5. When you say passive, do you mean with or without battery box
      > fans?
      > 6. What sort of BTMS are you going to use?
      >
      > Do you have a Force?
      >
      >
      >
      > So many more questions :-)
      >
      >
      >
      > Thanks,
      >
      >
      >
      > Noel
      >
      >
      >
      > ________________________________
      >
      > From: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com [mailto:solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com]
      > On Behalf Of Anil Paryani
      > Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2005 9:19 PM
      > To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: RE: [solectria_ev] Re: Who has an NiMH Force?
      >
      >
      >
      > I am planning on putting in Panasonic NiMh batteries (used in the EV
      > Plus and RAV-4 EVs). I am going to use passive air cooling. These
      > batteries are much more efficient than Ovonics. Under 25C ambient
      > charging (with a decent cooling system) the coulombic efficiency is
      > about 105%.
      >
      > As far as the Ovonics goes, typically at 25C, 110% of overcharge is
      > needed. It is much worst at temperatures above this and practically
      > unchargeable at temperatures around 35C.
      >
      > To improve your efficiency for the Ovonic battery packs, I recommend
      > reducing you charge current which reduces the i2r heat and reaction
      > heat when the battery temperature is above the 25C rate.
      >
      > "Noel P. Luneau" <nluneau@p...> wrote: Hi Jim,
      >
      > I was thinking that passive cooling while driving, using directed air,
      > would save some of the energy required to cool the Ovonics. I was
      > also
      > under the impression that the critical time to have adequate cooling
      > was
      > during the charging cycle.
      >
      > What do you think?
      >
      > Noel
      >
      > ________________________________
      >
      > From: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
      > [mailto:solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com]
      > On Behalf Of Jim Coate
      > Sent: Monday, October 31, 2005 5:41 PM
      > To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Re: Who has an NiMH Force?
      >
      >
      > It's taken me a while to catch on that Solectria was originally using
      > these particular NiMH batteries... they were used by GM in the OEM
      > S-10e
      >
      > trucks in addition to the EV1's.
      >
      > One thing to be aware of is that they generate a lot of heat,
      > especially
      >
      > during charging... which you probably realize since you are talking
      > about active cooling. The hidden catch is that this greatly increases
      > the power (KWH) used per mile as measured 'from the outlet'.
      >
      > According to published reports of the S-10 with these batteries
      > <http://www.evbones.com/s10Report2.pdf>, the batteries themselves
      > require about an extra 33%, or "over charge" to get full again. As in
      > you'll put 1.33 times as much into the batteries as you get out. And
      > the
      >
      > bigger deal (to me) is that it takes just over *twice* as much from
      > the
      > AC power source as you get back out of the batteries in the end. As
      > best
      >
      > as I can tell, this lost power goes to cooling the battery pack. For
      > comparison, this is 1.5 times as much power from the outlet per mile
      > traveled as the lead-acid S-10. And yes, I have a NiMH S-10... ironic,
      > eh?
      >
      >
      >
      > Noel P. Luneau wrote:
      > > Hi Ralph,
      > >
      > > I bought the batteries awhile in what I think was a one time sale.
      > However, Victor from MetricMind announced that he can get a bunch and
      > is
      > looking at selling them for 170 each. The batteries are the Ovonic
      > batteries that were used in the EV-1, and the Force. 13.2v and 85 Ah.
      >
      >
      >
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