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Re: [solarisx86] xVM platform supports HVM

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  • Apostolos Syropoulos
    Today I played a little bit with Xen. I created an hvn file (WINXP.hvm), which is almost identical to the one presented at
    Message 1 of 7 , Nov 1, 2007
      Today I played a little bit with Xen. I created an hvn file
      (WINXP.hvm), which is almost identical to the one presented at

      http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/xen/docs/HVMdomains.htm

      Almost identical because the disks section is the following:

      disk = [ 'file:/usr/local/tmp/winxp.img,hdc,w',
      'file:/usr/local/tmp/diskD.img,hdd,w' ]

      File winxp.img is a virtual disk created with qemu that
      worked just fine with qemu. Now, I entered the following
      command

      xm create WINXP.hvm

      and after a while a window with Windows XP showed up.
      The average memory consumption was 1,8 GiB (i.e., 97.6%)
      and the average CPU load was around 40-50% for the first
      core and 80% for the second core. After it installed
      a number of drives, I rebooted Windows and I left for a while.
      When I returned my system was dead! I had to reboot it and to
      do fsck etc. In other words, my first experience with Xen was
      more than disappointing. It is slow, really slow, and compared
      to qemu it does not show any real advantage. So why all this
      fuss about Xen and processor virtualization?

      A.S.

      PS BTW, this vncviewer thing did not worked for me.



      ****************************************************************
      *Apostolos Syropoulos *
      *snail mail: 366, 28th October Str., GR-671 00 Xanthi, HELLAS *
      *email : asyropoulos (at) yahoo (dot) com *
      *phone num.: +30-2541-028704 *
      *home page : http://obelix.ee.duth.gr/~apostolo *
      *blog : http://asyropoulos.wordpress.com/ *
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    • John Martin
      ... I asked a xVM expert about this. His reply: He doesn t mention if he s using the old build 66 based drop or the new (build 75 or later) opensolaris based
      Message 2 of 7 , Nov 1, 2007
        Apostolos Syropoulos wrote:
        > Today I played a little bit with Xen. I created an hvn file
        > (WINXP.hvm), which is almost identical to the one presented at
        >
        > http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/xen/docs/HVMdomains.htm
        >
        > Almost identical because the disks section is the following:
        >
        > disk = [ 'file:/usr/local/tmp/winxp.img,hdc,w',
        > 'file:/usr/local/tmp/diskD.img,hdd,w' ]
        >
        > File winxp.img is a virtual disk created with qemu that
        > worked just fine with qemu. Now, I entered the following
        > command
        >
        > xm create WINXP.hvm
        >
        > and after a while a window with Windows XP showed up.
        > The average memory consumption was 1,8 GiB (i.e., 97.6%)
        > and the average CPU load was around 40-50% for the first
        > core and 80% for the second core. After it installed
        > a number of drives, I rebooted Windows and I left for a while.
        > When I returned my system was dead! I had to reboot it and to
        > do fsck etc. In other words, my first experience with Xen was
        > more than disappointing. It is slow, really slow, and compared
        > to qemu it does not show any real advantage. So why all this
        > fuss about Xen and processor virtualization?
        I asked a xVM expert about this. His reply:

        He doesn't mention if he's using the old build 66 based
        drop or the new (build 75 or later) opensolaris based code.
        There were numerous bugs in the HVM support in the 66 stuff
        that got fixed later.

        Running Qemu installed virtual machines in xVM is not something
        were testing or expecting to work. The windows image should be installed
        using xVM.

        For performance, using file back virtual disks will continue to
        be very slow, for performance we recommend using raw partitions or zvols.
      • Tony Reeves
        ... What was the platform, how much memory and what OS version were you using? On my dual cure TurionX2 with 4GB of memory it works well and performance is at
        Message 3 of 7 , Nov 1, 2007
          On 11/1/07, Apostolos Syropoulos <asyropoulos@...> wrote:
          >
          > Today I played a little bit with Xen. I created an hvn file
          > (WINXP.hvm), which is almost identical to the one presented at
          >
          > http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/xen/docs/HVMdomains.htm
          >
          > Almost identical because the disks section is the following:
          >
          > disk = [ 'file:/usr/local/tmp/winxp.img,hdc,w',
          > 'file:/usr/local/tmp/diskD.img,hdd,w' ]
          >
          > File winxp.img is a virtual disk created with qemu that
          > worked just fine with qemu. Now, I entered the following
          > command
          >
          > xm create WINXP.hvm
          >
          > and after a while a window with Windows XP showed up.
          > The average memory consumption was 1,8 GiB (i.e., 97.6%)
          > and the average CPU load was around 40-50% for the first
          > core and 80% for the second core. After it installed
          > a number of drives, I rebooted Windows and I left for a while.
          > When I returned my system was dead! I had to reboot it and to
          > do fsck etc. In other words, my first experience with Xen was
          > more than disappointing. It is slow, really slow, and compared
          > to qemu it does not show any real advantage. So why all this
          > fuss about Xen and processor virtualization?
          >

          What was the platform, how much memory and what OS version were you using?

          On my dual cure TurionX2 with 4GB of memory it works well and
          performance is at least as good as Wemu, with more consistent mouse
          and keyboard response. CPU utilisation is normally under 10% on each
          core.

          > A.S.
          >
          > PS BTW, this vncviewer thing did not worked for me.

          Worked fine for me, once I followed the clear instruction to enable
          it. What did you use to get an XP gui?
        • Apostolos Syropoulos
          ... I did not mentioned in this message but in a previous message I stated that I am using build 75 (of course people cannot remember whatever I or anybody
          Message 4 of 7 , Nov 2, 2007
            >He doesn't mention if he's using the old build 66 based
            >drop or the new (build 75 or later) opensolaris based code.
            >There were numerous bugs in the HVM support in the 66 stuff

            >that got fixed later.


            I did not mentioned in this message but in a previous message
            I stated that I am using build 75 (of course people cannot remember
            whatever I or anybody else writes or says; my mistake sorry).

            >Running Qemu installed virtual machines in xVM is not something

            >were testing or expecting to work. The windows image should be installed

            >using xVM.


            Well, if you have some OS installed on a disk, this should be able to
            start working when the system configuration changes. And this was
            exactly the case. How the virtualization is implemented is something
            the OS does not know and it should not know. Now, let me tell you that
            I have reinstalled the image and the memory consuption was really high
            (BTW, under xVM the system reports that I have 1.8 GiB of memory but under
            normal OpenSolaris it reports that I have 2.0 GiB!). Also, the load
            average was quite high.

            >For performance, using file back virtual disks will continue to

            >be very slow, for performance we recommend using raw partitions or zvols.
            OK this is something that will naturally speed up things. However, when
            I see people using VMware and achieve such astonishing results without
            any HVM or anything else, I really wonder why all this fuss about Xen.
            You see people have built (academic) careers by working on something
            that is not worth the money. OK people working for SUN are not to be
            blamed for this. They provided support for a tool and I congratulate
            them for their work and efforts. It is the tool per se that does not
            deliver what it was supposed to deliver.
            A.S.



            ****************************************************************
            *Apostolos Syropoulos *
            *snail mail: 366, 28th October Str., GR-671 00 Xanthi, HELLAS *
            *email : asyropoulos (at) yahoo (dot) com *
            *phone num.: +30-2541-028704 *
            *home page : http://obelix.ee.duth.gr/~apostolo *
            *blog : http://asyropoulos.wordpress.com/ *
            ****************************************************************






            ___________________________________________________________
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            ���������� �� ���������� �������� (spam); �� Yahoo! Mail
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            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Apostolos Syropoulos
            ... I use an AMD Athlon(tm) 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 5200+ and when I read about near native speed I do expect near native speed. However, what I see is
            Message 5 of 7 , Nov 2, 2007
              >On my dual cure TurionX2 with 4GB of memory it works well and

              >performance is at least as good as Wemu, with more consistent mouse

              >and keyboard response. CPU utilisation is normally under 10% on each

              >core.
              I use an AMD Athlon(tm) 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 5200+ and when I
              read about near native speed I do expect near native speed. However,
              what I see is comparable to what I could do with qemu. And of course
              the designer of the project did not say anything about near native
              speed. Yes my virtyal Windows are not running on the hard disk directly,
              but if I have to create slices, volumes etc. to achieve a reasonable speed,
              then I could easily remove my favorite OS and install Windows!

              Regards,
              A.S.

              PS And with qemu network capabilities are easy but here only magicians
              can figure out how to enable a network capabilities...


              ****************************************************************
              *Apostolos Syropoulos *
              *snail mail: 366, 28th October Str., GR-671 00 Xanthi, HELLAS *
              *email : asyropoulos (at) yahoo (dot) com *
              *phone num.: +30-2541-028704 *
              *home page : http://obelix.ee.duth.gr/~apostolo *
              *blog : http://asyropoulos.wordpress.com/ *
              ****************************************************************






              ___________________________________________________________
              �������������� Yahoo!;
              ���������� �� ���������� �������� (spam); �� Yahoo! Mail
              �������� ��� �������� ������ ��������� ���� ��� �����������
              ��������� http://login.yahoo.com/config/mail?.intl=gr


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Juergen Keil
              ... That could be bug 6612343. With b75 (or newer) and multiprocessor/multicore cpus, Dom0 sometimes hangs when a DomU is using 100% of its VCPU. Until this is
              Message 6 of 7 , Nov 2, 2007
                --- In solarisx86@yahoogroups.com, Apostolos Syropoulos
                <asyropoulos@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                > Today I played a little bit with Xen. I created an hvn file
                > (WINXP.hvm), which is almost identical to the one presented at
                >
                > http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/xen/docs/HVMdomains.htm
                >
                > Almost identical because the disks section is the following:
                >
                > disk = [ 'file:/usr/local/tmp/winxp.img,hdc,w',
                > 'file:/usr/local/tmp/diskD.img,hdd,w' ]
                >
                > File winxp.img is a virtual disk created with qemu that
                > worked just fine with qemu. Now, I entered the following
                > command
                >
                > xm create WINXP.hvm
                >
                > and after a while a window with Windows XP showed up.
                > The average memory consumption was 1,8 GiB (i.e., 97.6%)
                > and the average CPU load was around 40-50% for the first
                > core and 80% for the second core. After it installed
                > a number of drives, I rebooted Windows and I left for a while.
                > When I returned my system was dead! I had to reboot it and to
                > do fsck etc.

                That could be bug 6612343.

                With b75 (or newer) and multiprocessor/multicore cpus, Dom0
                sometimes hangs when a DomU is using 100% of its VCPU.

                Until this is fixed, you should use the workaround from that bug:

                add the following to /etc/system
                set softcall_delay=0x100000

                > In other words, my first experience with Xen was
                > more than disappointing. It is slow, really slow, and compared
                > to qemu it does not show any real advantage. So why all this
                > fuss about Xen and processor virtualization?

                The xen HVM support is slow, and it actually uses old qemu hardware
                device emulation code, but in a much more complicated way than qemu.

                The most dramatic speed difference can be seen when trying to boot
                S10-x86 (FCS) in a xen HVM, the old boot.bin boot code needs
                minutes (~ an hour) until we're at the kernel boot promt, while
                qemu is able to get to the boot prompt within a few seconds...

                The key to xen performance is PV drivers, drivers for the guest OS
                that are optimized for use in the xen environment.
              • sol11x86@comcast.net
                ... From: Apostolos Syropoulos ... See http://www.opensolaris.org/os/project/qemu/Qemu_Networking for a good explaination of how
                Message 7 of 7 , Nov 2, 2007
                  -------------- Original message ----------------------
                  From: Apostolos Syropoulos <asyropoulos@...>
                  > >On my dual cure TurionX2 with 4GB of memory it works well and
                  >
                  > >performance is at least as good as Wemu, with more consistent mouse
                  >
                  > >and keyboard response. CPU utilisation is normally under 10% on each
                  >
                  > >core.
                  > I use an AMD Athlon(tm) 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 5200+ and when I
                  > read about near native speed I do expect near native speed. However,
                  > what I see is comparable to what I could do with qemu. And of course
                  > the designer of the project did not say anything about near native
                  > speed. Yes my virtyal Windows are not running on the hard disk directly,
                  > but if I have to create slices, volumes etc. to achieve a reasonable speed,
                  > then I could easily remove my favorite OS and install Windows!
                  >
                  > Regards,
                  > A.S.
                  >
                  > PS And with qemu network capabilities are easy but here only magicians
                  > can figure out how to enable a network capabilities...

                  See http://www.opensolaris.org/os/project/qemu/Qemu_Networking
                  for a good explaination of how networking works in QEMU as it
                  relates to the guest and host.

                  If there are any comments regarding this page, please forward them
                  to me offline.

                  Ben
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