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Re: [solarisx86] Re: Heads up: Solaris 10 Update 4 is coming...

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  • Laurent Blume
    ... Actually, it s been available for one or 2 days on docs.sun.com: http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/doc/817-0547/gdrlm?a=view Lots of good things in it. It d
    Message 1 of 16 , Aug 31, 2007
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      Mike Riley a écrit :
      > I don't think there will be an external one until they post the image for download.

      Actually, it's been available for one or 2 days on docs.sun.com:

      http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/doc/817-0547/gdrlm?a=view

      Lots of good things in it. It'd definitely an interesting update, and
      with more to come in U5 and U6, S10 will have an impressive life cycle.
      I've only really used Solaris 7 and up, but in my eyes, the effort
      that's gone in improving that single major release is incredible
      compared to the previous versions.

      Laurent
      --
      / Leader de Projet & Communauté | I'm working, but not speaking for
      \ G11N http://fr.opensolaris.org | Bull Services http://www.bull.com
      / FOSUG http://guses.org |
    • rogerfujii
      ... But to be honest, I think that there are legal reasons why it s still version 10. Sun promised a bunch of things for Solaris 10 when it was initially
      Message 2 of 16 , Sep 1, 2007
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        --- In solarisx86@yahoogroups.com, Laurent Blume <laurent@...> wrote:

        > Lots of good things in it. It'd definitely an interesting update, and
        > with more to come in U5 and U6, S10 will have an impressive life cycle.
        > I've only really used Solaris 7 and up, but in my eyes, the effort
        > that's gone in improving that single major release is incredible
        > compared to the previous versions.

        But to be honest, I think that there are legal reasons why it's still
        version 10. Sun promised a bunch of things for Solaris 10 when it was
        initially released

        http://web.archive.org/web/20041229235809/www.sun.com/software/solaris/10/inside.jsp

        and with U4, I think all the features are finally included. My
        suspicion is that now that everything promised has been delivered, the
        marketers at SUNW^H^H^H^HJAVA that have nothing better to do than to
        rename things will push for U5 to be called
        Solaris|Solaris/Java|Java/Solaris 11.

        But in any case, congrats to engineering for getting it out. Thanks
        for the effort, guys.

        -r
      • Laurent Blume
        ... Oh, I wouldn t think so. I remember, back in 2000, the promises for Solaris 9. One of the features I was looking forward to: it was going to run Linux
        Message 3 of 16 , Sep 2, 2007
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          rogerfujii a écrit :
          > But to be honest, I think that there are legal reasons why it's still
          > version 10. Sun promised a bunch of things for Solaris 10 when it was
          > initially released

          Oh, I wouldn't think so. I remember, back in 2000, the promises for
          Solaris 9. One of the features I was looking forward to: it was going to
          run Linux binaries, unmodified...

          > and with U4, I think all the features are finally included. My
          > suspicion is that now that everything promised has been delivered, the
          > marketers at SUNW^H^H^H^HJAVA that have nothing better to do than to
          > rename things will push for U5 to be called
          > Solaris|Solaris/Java|Java/Solaris 11.

          One more thing that's needed is ZFS boot, which should be in U5 for
          Solaris x86, if I understand correctly, but maybe not SPARC, because OBP
          is a more difficult matter than GRUB.

          And I've heard that a major GNOME update is for U6. Actually, I've heard
          that most of the bits currently in Nevada should get into Solaris *10*,
          and there's no specific plan for 11 yet.

          My own personal bet would be that the major change that would trigger
          version 11 would be a complete overhaul of the packaging system. Maybe
          even not called Solaris, because that would cause a serious
          compatibility issue.
          But maybe that with Zones, they could have a brand new Global Zone, with
          a new system, with a Compatibility Zone which would support old-style
          packages. Better than /usr/ucb, by all accounts.

          Laurent
          --
          / Leader de Projet & Communauté | I'm working, but not speaking for
          \ G11N http://fr.opensolaris.org | Bull Services http://www.bull.com
          / FOSUG http://guses.org |
        • Adrian Saul
          ... I for one could not care if it was called Solaris 10 in perpetuity, regardless of what was added. I still have issues trying to get Solaris 10 adopted
          Message 4 of 16 , Sep 2, 2007
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            > and with U4, I think all the features are finally included. My
            > suspicion is that now that everything promised has been delivered, the
            > marketers at SUNW^H^H^H^HJAVA that have nothing better to do than to
            > rename things will push for U5 to be called
            > Solaris|Solaris/Java|Java/Solaris 11.

            I for one could not care if it was called Solaris 10 in perpetuity,
            regardless of what was added. I still have issues trying to get Solaris
            10 adopted because so many applications are still to catch up, or if
            they have they are at versions not suitable to our environment.

            I was told of one example where the vendor wanted $600k to certify an
            app version on Solaris 10 that runs fine on Solaris 8 and 9, even though
            they have a working version on 10 and are fully aware of the Solaris ABI
            compatibility. Even worse is the one that was a java application - oh
            no, must stay on 8.. cant run on 10.. not certified - ITS JAVA <insert
            expletitives>!.

            The problem seems to be that everytime Sun ups the versions, application
            vendors rub their hands in glee that they get to do another round of "we
            cant certify that, unless...".
          • maybird1776
            ... the 5th. ... I heard pretty much that same thing but more like early Sept, which is by Sept 7th, which gives Sun the full week to deliver Solaris 10 08/07.
            Message 5 of 16 , Sep 2, 2007
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              --- In solarisx86@yahoogroups.com, Al Hopper <al@...> wrote:
              >
              > On Fri, 31 Aug 2007, Mike Riley wrote:
              >
              > > It may be out on September 4th, but should definitely be there by
              the 5th.
              > >
              > > This will be called Solaris 10 8/07 in Marketing-Speak.
              >

              I heard pretty much that same thing but more like early Sept, which is
              by Sept 7th, which gives Sun the full week to deliver Solaris 10 08/07.

              Based on Laurent's comments:
              As for GNOME, well I think that is up to the Sun GNOME team (see:
              Glynn Foster) on what they will release on that front with Solaris 10.
              I'm reviewing GNOME 2.20.0 as the new target desktop with GIMP 2.4.0
              on Sun Solaris 10.

              GNOME 2.20 will be available for OpenSolaris distro support as well.

              ~ Ken Mays
            • maybird1776
              ... though ... Solaris ABI ... oh ...
              Message 6 of 16 , Sep 2, 2007
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                --- In solarisx86@yahoogroups.com, Adrian Saul <asaul@...> wrote:
                >
                >> app version on Solaris 10 that runs fine on Solaris 8 and 9, even
                though
                > they have a working version on 10 and are fully aware of the
                Solaris ABI
                > compatibility. Even worse is the one that was a java application -
                oh
                > no, must stay on 8.. cant run on 10.. not certified - ITS JAVA
                <insert
                > expletitives>!.
                >
                > The problem seems to be that everytime Sun ups the versions,
                application
                > vendors rub their hands in glee that they get to do another round
                of "we
                > cant certify that, unless...".

                Well, within reason. No OS can promise full backward compatibility
                with everything as that would hinder the OS eventually. Just take a
                good luck at Win9x->Vista - not all the apps made the cut.

                I'm sure the vendor can get a working app on Solaris 10 or a smart
                admin. How much someone pays is another story! ;o)

                ~Ken
              • Alan Coopersmith
                ... Glynn left the GNOME team earlier this year to join Project Indiana. The management decision there is unchanged though - the customers they hear from don t
                Message 7 of 16 , Sep 2, 2007
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                  maybird1776 wrote:
                  > As for GNOME, well I think that is up to the Sun GNOME team (see:
                  > Glynn Foster) on what they will release on that front with Solaris 10.

                  Glynn left the GNOME team earlier this year to join Project Indiana.
                  The management decision there is unchanged though - the customers they
                  hear from don't want that much change in Solaris 10 updates, and the
                  GNOME team's resources are better spent on making the head of the GNOME
                  train run well on Solaris, and integrating that into Nevada.

                  --
                  -Alan Coopersmith- alan.coopersmith@...
                  Sun Microsystems, Inc. - X Window System Engineering
                • Tony Reeves
                  ... That is the whole point of binary compatibility, and it really does work, as long as the vendor followed the rules when porting to Solaris 8 or later. ...
                  Message 8 of 16 , Sep 2, 2007
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                    On 9/3/07, maybird1776 <maybird1776@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In solarisx86@yahoogroups.com, Adrian Saul <asaul@...> wrote:
                    > >
                    > >> app version on Solaris 10 that runs fine on Solaris 8 and 9, even
                    > though
                    > > they have a working version on 10 and are fully aware of the
                    > Solaris ABI
                    > > compatibility. Even worse is the one that was a java application -
                    > oh
                    > > no, must stay on 8.. cant run on 10.. not certified - ITS JAVA
                    > <insert
                    > > expletitives>!.
                    > >
                    > > The problem seems to be that everytime Sun ups the versions,
                    > application
                    > > vendors rub their hands in glee that they get to do another round
                    > of "we
                    > > cant certify that, unless...".
                    >
                    > Well, within reason. No OS can promise full backward compatibility
                    > with everything as that would hinder the OS eventually.

                    That is the whole point of binary compatibility, and it really does
                    work, as long as the vendor followed the rules when porting to Solaris
                    8 or later.


                    > Just take a
                    > good luck at Win9x->Vista - not all the apps made the cut.

                    Win9x and NT (the base OS of Vista) are two quite different OS's. And
                    Microsoft has never promised binary compatibility.
                  • Tony Reeves
                    ... This not a Sun specific issue though. Same issue with AIX and HP-UX etc.. And look at Vista and its lack of certified application.
                    Message 9 of 16 , Sep 2, 2007
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                      On 9/3/07, Adrian Saul <asaul@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > > and with U4, I think all the features are finally included. My
                      > > suspicion is that now that everything promised has been delivered, the
                      > > marketers at SUNW^H^H^H^HJAVA that have nothing better to do than to
                      > > rename things will push for U5 to be called
                      > > Solaris|Solaris/Java|Java/Solaris 11.
                      >
                      > I for one could not care if it was called Solaris 10 in perpetuity,
                      > regardless of what was added. I still have issues trying to get Solaris
                      > 10 adopted because so many applications are still to catch up, or if
                      > they have they are at versions not suitable to our environment.
                      >
                      > I was told of one example where the vendor wanted $600k to certify an
                      > app version on Solaris 10 that runs fine on Solaris 8 and 9, even though
                      > they have a working version on 10 and are fully aware of the Solaris ABI
                      > compatibility. Even worse is the one that was a java application - oh
                      > no, must stay on 8.. cant run on 10.. not certified - ITS JAVA <insert
                      > expletitives>!.
                      >
                      > The problem seems to be that everytime Sun ups the versions, application
                      > vendors rub their hands in glee that they get to do another round of "we
                      > cant certify that, unless...".
                      > _

                      This not a Sun specific issue though. Same issue with AIX and HP-UX
                      etc.. And look at Vista and its lack of certified application.
                    • Laurent Blume
                      ... There is even a new kind I ve heard of last week: certifying applications in a virtualized environment. Ie, they re already certified for an OS, but if
                      Message 10 of 16 , Sep 3, 2007
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                        Tony Reeves a écrit :
                        > This not a Sun specific issue though. Same issue with AIX and HP-UX
                        > etc.. And look at Vista and its lack of certified application.

                        There is even a new kind I've heard of last week: certifying
                        applications in a virtualized environment.
                        Ie, they're already certified for an OS, but if that OS is running on
                        top of VMware or such, the vendor asks money to certify the application
                        will work.

                        Do they do that with Solaris' zones, too?

                        Laurent
                        --
                        / Leader de Projet & Communauté | I'm working, but not speaking for
                        \ G11N http://fr.opensolaris.org | Bull Services http://www.bull.com
                        / FOSUG http://guses.org |
                      • Tony Reeves
                        ... Oracle do formally support Solaris zones, provided the number of cpus allocated don t exceed the license. Google oracle and solaris zones to find
                        Message 11 of 16 , Sep 3, 2007
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                          On 9/3/07, Laurent Blume <laurent@...> wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          > Tony Reeves a écrit :
                          > > This not a Sun specific issue though. Same issue with AIX and HP-UX
                          > > etc.. And look at Vista and its lack of certified application.
                          >
                          > There is even a new kind I've heard of last week: certifying
                          > applications in a virtualized environment.
                          > Ie, they're already certified for an OS, but if that OS is running on
                          > top of VMware or such, the vendor asks money to certify the application
                          > will work.
                          >
                          > Do they do that with Solaris' zones, too?

                          Oracle do formally support Solaris zones, provided the number of cpus
                          allocated don't exceed the license. Google oracle and solaris zones
                          to find reference.

                          But... a site tells me that if a problem is reported on Oracle on
                          vmware, the problem must be repeatable on the OS on bare metal before
                          they will provide support.
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