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Re: Nvidia and ATI Drivers

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  • palowoda
    ... Sales will have to do a good song and dance explaining the advantages of going from 150.00 2D card directly to a 1500.00 3D card with no options in the
    Message 1 of 19 , Oct 31, 2004
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      --- In solarisx86@yahoogroups.com, "kaiwainz" <kaiwai@v...> wrote:

      > 2) Only supporting the professional end of town; I'm referring to the
      > mainstream devices offered by ATI and Nvidia, things like the ATI
      > Radeon 9600 etc.

      Sales will have to do a good song and dance explaining the
      advantages of going from 150.00 2D card directly to a 1500.00 3D
      card with no options in the middle. I hope the competition
      won't use this against them with other options.

      ---Bob
    • kaiwainz
      ... the ... The interesting thing, however, will be this; lets say a small merry band of engineers (Very Small Engineering Company of America) decide that SUNs
      Message 2 of 19 , Nov 1, 2004
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        --- In solarisx86@yahoogroups.com, "palowoda" <palowoda@f...> wrote:
        >
        > --- In solarisx86@yahoogroups.com, "kaiwainz" <kaiwai@v...> wrote:
        >
        > > 2) Only supporting the professional end of town; I'm referring to
        the
        > > mainstream devices offered by ATI and Nvidia, things like the ATI
        > > Radeon 9600 etc.
        >
        > Sales will have to do a good song and dance explaining the
        > advantages of going from 150.00 2D card directly to a 1500.00 3D
        > card with no options in the middle. I hope the competition
        > won't use this against them with other options.
        >
        > ---Bob

        The interesting thing, however, will be this; lets say a small merry
        band of engineers (Very Small Engineering Company of America) decide
        that SUNs workstation is an overkill, so they decide to build their
        own machines; they purchase a nice Solaris license, however, they find
        that not only is there graphics card not supported but there is no
        OpenGL.

        Lets then move to Very Big Corporation of America (see Monty Python),
        they buy some SUN workstations, and like the Very Small Engineering
        Company of America (above example), they're stuck with machines with
        no OpenGL; MBA wizzkids from the 30th flaw throw a wobbly and vow
        never to purchase another Sun machine again.

        Lets move now to Very Big Software Corporation of America, they've
        been providing Solaris based software for some time, with the advent
        of cheap Windows and Linux workstations, they started offering a Linux
        and Windows version of their software; they're now getting to the
        point that their Solaris sales make up next to nothing.

        This company then sees that SUN has released a really good quality
        Opteron system priced below alot of the competition, the MBA wizz kids
        on the 30th floor decide that this would be a great way of increasing
        their marketshare early before their competition, Medium Software
        Corporation of America gets wiff of the potential in the Solaris/x86
        market.

        Off the MBA wizz kids go, however, to their shock they find there is
        no OpenGL development kit for Solaris x86; they eventually give up,
        pull their Solaris SPARC version off the market and decide that the
        money would be better spent investing into their Linux and Windows
        version.

        In the mean time, there is a large building up of people who have
        visited the SUN site, viewed Solaris 10 and the integrated JDS, and
        view that as a great alternative to the desktop duopoloy (Linux and
        Windows) that the media would like to present, but like Very Small
        Engineering Company of America, they can't get the support they
        require.

        Whilst all this is happening, Scott and Schwartz are on the 6th floor
        of HMS SUN, trying to work out why they're only selling 653 Opteron
        workstations per quarter, and why their main customer for their
        Opteron stations happen to be geeks with way too much money in their
        hands.

        Matty
      • Jon LaBadie
        ... What of the lower end nVidia type stuff in onboard chips etc. Like their Gforce or MCP sets. -- Jon H. LaBadie jon@jgcomp.com JG Computing
        Message 3 of 19 , Nov 2, 2004
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          On Sun, Oct 31, 2004 at 07:34:01PM -0800, Alan Coopersmith wrote:
          >
          > kaiwainz wrote:
          > > Is there going to be a move by SUN to fund ATI and Nvidia to port
          > > their existing X11 drivers accross to Solaris?
          >
          > http://www.sun.com/smi/Press/sunflash/2004-10/sunflash.20041012.1.html
          >

          What of the lower end nVidia type stuff in onboard chips etc.
          Like their Gforce or MCP sets.

          --
          Jon H. LaBadie jon@...
          JG Computing
          4455 Province Line Road (609) 252-0159
          Princeton, NJ 08540-4322 (609) 683-7220 (fax)
        • palowoda
          ... What do you mean by lower end ? Have you looked at some of the performance numbers of GeForce 6800/Ultra series graphics cards. I wouldn t go to far to
          Message 4 of 19 , Nov 3, 2004
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            --- In solarisx86@yahoogroups.com, Jon LaBadie <jxsol@j...> wrote:
            > On Sun, Oct 31, 2004 at 07:34:01PM -0800, Alan Coopersmith wrote:
            > >
            > > kaiwainz wrote:
            > > > Is there going to be a move by SUN to fund ATI and Nvidia to port
            > > > their existing X11 drivers accross to Solaris?
            > >
            > > http://www.sun.com/smi/Press/sunflash/2004-10/sunflash.20041012.1.html
            > >
            >
            > What of the lower end nVidia type stuff in onboard chips etc.
            > Like their Gforce or MCP sets.
            >

            What do you mean by "lower end"? Have you looked at
            some of the performance numbers of GeForce 6800/Ultra
            series graphics cards. I wouldn't go to far to classify
            as this type of video card is low end. If it is surely
            the price of those cards don't reflect the performance
            and the general public is being dupped beyond all
            comprehension. The question still remains what is
            magical about the price performance of say Nvidia's 6800 series
            or ATI's x800 that is so attractive?

            ---Bob
          • kaiwainz
            ... http://www.sun.com/smi/Press/sunflash/2004-10/sunflash.20041012.1.html ... Nothing to do with speed and everything to do with accessibility. I can jump
            Message 5 of 19 , Nov 3, 2004
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              --- In solarisx86@yahoogroups.com, "palowoda" <palowoda@f...> wrote:
              >
              > --- In solarisx86@yahoogroups.com, Jon LaBadie <jxsol@j...> wrote:
              > > On Sun, Oct 31, 2004 at 07:34:01PM -0800, Alan Coopersmith wrote:
              > > >
              > > > kaiwainz wrote:
              > > > > Is there going to be a move by SUN to fund ATI and Nvidia to port
              > > > > their existing X11 drivers accross to Solaris?
              > > >
              > > >
              http://www.sun.com/smi/Press/sunflash/2004-10/sunflash.20041012.1.html
              > > >
              > >
              > > What of the lower end nVidia type stuff in onboard chips etc.
              > > Like their Gforce or MCP sets.
              > >
              >
              > What do you mean by "lower end"? Have you looked at
              > some of the performance numbers of GeForce 6800/Ultra
              > series graphics cards. I wouldn't go to far to classify
              > as this type of video card is low end. If it is surely
              > the price of those cards don't reflect the performance
              > and the general public is being dupped beyond all
              > comprehension. The question still remains what is
              > magical about the price performance of say Nvidia's 6800 series
              > or ATI's x800 that is so attractive?
              >
              > ---Bob

              Nothing to do with "speed" and everything to do with accessibility. I
              can jump onto Dell, purchase a one heck of a pocket-rocket for a few
              grand, now wouldn't it be nice to know that Solaris just works(tm) out
              of the box(tm)?

              At the end of the day, why not get these drivers available? I mean,
              throw a few grand Nvidias and ATIs way, and say "get them working",
              its a small price to pay to increase hardware compatibility.

              Matty
            • maybird1776
              ... port ... 10/sunflash.20041012.1.html This is the abstract on the Linux ATI v3.14.1 video driver from ATI:
              Message 6 of 19 , Nov 3, 2004
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                --- In solarisx86@yahoogroups.com, "palowoda" <palowoda@f...> wrote:
                >
                > --- In solarisx86@yahoogroups.com, Jon LaBadie <jxsol@j...> wrote:
                > > On Sun, Oct 31, 2004 at 07:34:01PM -0800, Alan Coopersmith wrote:
                > > >
                > > > kaiwainz wrote:
                > > > > Is there going to be a move by SUN to fund ATI and Nvidia to
                port
                > > > > their existing X11 drivers accross to Solaris?
                > > >
                > > > http://www.sun.com/smi/Press/sunflash/2004-
                10/sunflash.20041012.1.html

                This is the abstract on the Linux ATI v3.14.1 video driver from ATI:
                http://www2.ati.com/drivers/linux/linux_3.14.1.html

                The latest version of the ATI proprietary Linux driver introduces
                support for the following MOBILITY™ products:

                MOBILITY™ RADEON™ 9800

                The latest version of the ATI proprietary Linux driver introduces
                support for the following desktop products:

                RADEON™ X600
                RADEON™ X300
                The latest version of the ATI proprietary Linux driver introduces
                support for the following integrated products:

                MOBILITY™ RADEON™ 9000/9100 IGP Series


                Note:
                This software driver provides 2D support only for the ATI RADEON™
                9100 IGP and ATI RADEON 9100 PRO IGP.


                The Nvidia Linux-AMD64 driver v1.0-6111
                has a few issues with motherboard chipsets and I wonder how some
                testing is going to be done with the nForce4 chipsets.

                I would hope with build 70 of Solaris 10, some studies have been done
                with a few of the leading AMD64 motherboard manufacturers and Solaris
                10 QA engineers on the issues of the leading graphic manufacturers
                AMD64 video driver initiatives on Solaris x86.

                ~ Ken Mays @ EarthLnk ,Inc.
              • Alan Coopersmith
                ... I believe that whatever their Linux driver supports, their Solaris one will also, but I can t confirm that and don t know the exact planned set of
                Message 7 of 19 , Nov 3, 2004
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                  Jon LaBadie wrote:
                  > On Sun, Oct 31, 2004 at 07:34:01PM -0800, Alan Coopersmith wrote:
                  >
                  >>kaiwainz wrote:
                  >>
                  >>>Is there going to be a move by SUN to fund ATI and Nvidia to port
                  >>>their existing X11 drivers accross to Solaris?
                  >>
                  >>http://www.sun.com/smi/Press/sunflash/2004-10/sunflash.20041012.1.html
                  >>
                  >
                  >
                  > What of the lower end nVidia type stuff in onboard chips etc.
                  > Like their Gforce or MCP sets.

                  I believe that whatever their Linux driver supports, their Solaris one
                  will also, but I can't confirm that and don't know the exact planned set
                  of supported hardware.

                  Of course, with Xorg we already have their open source driver, so most
                  Nvidia hardware will run - it just may not have the full feature set or
                  speed without the propreitary drivers.

                  --
                  -Alan Coopersmith- alan.coopersmith@...
                  Sun Microsystems, Inc. - X Window System Engineering
                • Jon LaBadie
                  ... I had a need to get a system to try multiple OS s, not for use in any production sense, just to gain familiarity. It has about 6 OS s on it now. Did not
                  Message 8 of 19 , Nov 3, 2004
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                    On Wed, Nov 03, 2004 at 09:54:32AM -0000, palowoda wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In solarisx86@yahoogroups.com, Jon LaBadie <jxsol@j...> wrote:
                    > > On Sun, Oct 31, 2004 at 07:34:01PM -0800, Alan Coopersmith wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > kaiwainz wrote:
                    > > > > Is there going to be a move by SUN to fund ATI and Nvidia to port
                    > > > > their existing X11 drivers accross to Solaris?
                    > > >
                    > > > http://www.sun.com/smi/Press/sunflash/2004-10/sunflash.20041012.1.html
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > > What of the lower end nVidia type stuff in onboard chips etc.
                    > > Like their Gforce or MCP sets.
                    > >
                    >
                    > What do you mean by "lower end"?

                    I had a need to get a system to try multiple OS's, not for use in
                    any production sense, just to gain familiarity. It has about
                    6 OS's on it now. Did not want to spend much money. Got a system
                    with Athlon XP 3200+, 1GB memory, 320GB disk, my first dvd writer,
                    for < $800. Downside of it is that everything is built into the
                    mainboard and is an nVidia set, video, usb, firewire, ethernet,
                    modem and sound. Everything seems to just work out of the box
                    with most of the linux's and of course windoze. Newer linux's
                    have probs with the ether nic as nVidia seems to be reducing
                    support for multiple linux vendors.

                    So that is what I meant my lower end, inexpensive systems
                    with lots of nV stuff builtin, not just the plugin video cards.

                    --
                    Jon H. LaBadie jon@...
                    JG Computing
                    4455 Province Line Road (609) 252-0159
                    Princeton, NJ 08540-4322 (609) 683-7220 (fax)
                  • Jon LaBadie
                    ... Where I was really unclear is I hoped to find out about things other than video; things like nVidia ethernet, sound, usb, ... -- Jon H. LaBadie
                    Message 9 of 19 , Nov 3, 2004
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                      On Wed, Nov 03, 2004 at 07:45:17AM -0800, Alan Coopersmith wrote:
                      >
                      > Jon LaBadie wrote:
                      > > On Sun, Oct 31, 2004 at 07:34:01PM -0800, Alan Coopersmith wrote:
                      > >
                      > >>kaiwainz wrote:
                      > >>
                      > >>>Is there going to be a move by SUN to fund ATI and Nvidia to port
                      > >>>their existing X11 drivers accross to Solaris?
                      > >>
                      > >>http://www.sun.com/smi/Press/sunflash/2004-10/sunflash.20041012.1.html
                      > >
                      > > What of the lower end nVidia type stuff in onboard chips etc.
                      > > Like their Gforce or MCP sets.
                      >
                      > I believe that whatever their Linux driver supports, their Solaris one
                      > will also, but I can't confirm that and don't know the exact planned set
                      > of supported hardware.
                      >
                      > Of course, with Xorg we already have their open source driver, so most
                      > Nvidia hardware will run - it just may not have the full feature set or
                      > speed without the propreitary drivers.

                      Where I was really unclear is I hoped to find out about things other
                      than video; things like nVidia ethernet, sound, usb, ...

                      --
                      Jon H. LaBadie jon@...
                      JG Computing
                      4455 Province Line Road (609) 252-0159
                      Princeton, NJ 08540-4322 (609) 683-7220 (fax)
                    • pcsol1996
                      ... There are known stability issues (very serious ones) with the Nvidia drivers under various flavors of Linux. They were so serious that our dual-CPU triple
                      Message 10 of 19 , Nov 3, 2004
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                        --- In solarisx86@yahoogroups.com, Alan Coopersmith
                        <alan.coopersmith@s...> wrote:
                        > Jon LaBadie wrote:
                        > > On Sun, Oct 31, 2004 at 07:34:01PM -0800, Alan Coopersmith wrote:
                        > >
                        > >>kaiwainz wrote:
                        > >>
                        > >>>Is there going to be a move by SUN to fund ATI and Nvidia to port
                        > >>>their existing X11 drivers accross to Solaris?
                        > >>
                        > >>http://www.sun.com/smi/Press/sunflash/2004-10/sunflash.20041012.1.html
                        > >>
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > What of the lower end nVidia type stuff in onboard chips etc.
                        > > Like their Gforce or MCP sets.
                        >
                        > I believe that whatever their Linux driver supports, their Solaris one
                        > will also, but I can't confirm that and don't know the exact planned set
                        > of supported hardware.
                        >
                        > Of course, with Xorg we already have their open source driver, so most
                        > Nvidia hardware will run - it just may not have the full feature set or
                        > speed without the propreitary drivers.


                        There are known stability issues (very serious ones) with the
                        Nvidia drivers under various flavors of Linux. They were so serious
                        that our dual-CPU triple head RH workstations were locking up
                        twice per week until I switched to the Xfree86 driver. Sun had better
                        do a WHOLE lot of testing under heavy duty workstation conditions
                        (multi-heads, dual CPU, many apps running at the same time) before
                        offering these. The NV driver/XFree86 under Solaris x86
                        with three heads has been 100% stable and plenty fast enough.


                        >
                        > --
                        > -Alan Coopersmith- alan.coopersmith@s...
                        > Sun Microsystems, Inc. - X Window System Engineering
                      • Alan Coopersmith
                        ... Oh, you mean NForce, not GeForce - I don t know what s happening there. -- -Alan Coopersmith- alan.coopersmith@sun.com Sun Microsystems, Inc. - X
                        Message 11 of 19 , Nov 3, 2004
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                          Jon LaBadie wrote:
                          > Where I was really unclear is I hoped to find out about things other
                          > than video; things like nVidia ethernet, sound, usb, ...

                          Oh, you mean NForce, not GeForce - I don't know what's happening there.

                          --
                          -Alan Coopersmith- alan.coopersmith@...
                          Sun Microsystems, Inc. - X Window System Engineering
                        • Jon LaBadie
                          ... Apologies, saw both mentioned on front label. But the one did say GeForce4 MX GRAPHICS . mea culpa. -- Jon H. LaBadie jon@jgcomp.com JG
                          Message 12 of 19 , Nov 3, 2004
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                            On Wed, Nov 03, 2004 at 08:28:07AM -0800, Alan Coopersmith wrote:
                            >
                            > Jon LaBadie wrote:
                            > > Where I was really unclear is I hoped to find out about things other
                            > > than video; things like nVidia ethernet, sound, usb, ...
                            >
                            > Oh, you mean NForce, not GeForce - I don't know what's happening there.

                            Apologies, saw both mentioned on front label. But the one did
                            say GeForce4 MX "GRAPHICS". mea culpa.

                            --
                            Jon H. LaBadie jon@...
                            JG Computing
                            4455 Province Line Road (609) 252-0159
                            Princeton, NJ 08540-4322 (609) 683-7220 (fax)
                          • John D Groenveld
                            ... A great question for Scott and company at the NC04Q4 Q&A will be how broad is the agreement with nVidia. John groenveld@acm.org
                            Message 13 of 19 , Nov 3, 2004
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                              In message <20041103055805.GA19210@...>, Jon LaBadie writes:
                              >What of the lower end nVidia type stuff in onboard chips etc.
                              >Like their Gforce or MCP sets.

                              A great question for Scott and company at the NC04Q4 Q&A will be how
                              broad is the agreement with nVidia.

                              John
                              groenveld@...
                            • Adrian Saul - Product Technical Support
                              ... Well, I have a Dell Inspiron 8500 and other guys here have the 8600. On the whole it works completely with the only addition I need to make is the bcf
                              Message 14 of 19 , Nov 3, 2004
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                                > Nothing to do with "speed" and everything to do with accessibility. I
                                > can jump onto Dell, purchase a one heck of a pocket-rocket for a few
                                > grand, now wouldn't it be nice to know that Solaris just works(tm) out
                                > of the box(tm)?

                                Well, I have a Dell Inspiron 8500 and other guys here have the 8600. On
                                the whole it works completely with the only addition I need to make is
                                the bcf driver for the Broadcom 4401 NIC on it. Video (NVidia GeForce4
                                Ti 4200), Audio (AC97), USB and firewire work out of the box, the bcf
                                driver hasnt hiccuped yet for the network. I bought a toshiba mini-pci
                                wireless card off ebay and using the internal wireless drivers got that
                                going. The BCM4306 802.11g mini-pci card that came with the laptop isnt
                                supported... yet ;).

                                Looking at my prtconf I think the only things without a driver attached
                                are the onboard modem and I think the infra red port.

                                For the other Nvidia devices I have (GeForce FX 5200 and GeForce 4
                                440MX) in my home machines both work fine under Xorg, and I believe both
                                did under XFree (allthough they perform much better with Xorg).
                              • palowoda
                                ... Might have something to do with 3D hardware.
                                Message 15 of 19 , Nov 3, 2004
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                                  --- In solarisx86@yahoogroups.com, "Adrian Saul - Product Technical
                                  Support (APAC)" <adrian.saul@s...> wrote:
                                  >

                                  > For the other Nvidia devices I have (GeForce FX 5200 and GeForce 4
                                  > 440MX) in my home machines both work fine under Xorg, and I believe both
                                  > did under XFree (allthough they perform much better with Xorg).

                                  Might have something to do with 3D hardware.

                                  ---Bob
                                • kaiwainz
                                  ... believe both ... Yeap, and the lack thereof of PCI-Express support for the latest chipsets. As I said before, versions have already been made available for
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Nov 3, 2004
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                                    --- In solarisx86@yahoogroups.com, "palowoda" <palowoda@f...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > --- In solarisx86@yahoogroups.com, "Adrian Saul - Product Technical
                                    > Support (APAC)" <adrian.saul@s...> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    >
                                    > > For the other Nvidia devices I have (GeForce FX 5200 and GeForce 4
                                    > > 440MX) in my home machines both work fine under Xorg, and I
                                    believe both
                                    > > did under XFree (allthough they perform much better with Xorg).
                                    >
                                    > Might have something to do with 3D hardware.
                                    >
                                    > ---Bob

                                    Yeap, and the lack thereof of PCI-Express support for the latest
                                    chipsets. As I said before, versions have already been made available
                                    for FreeBSD and Linux, I doubt there would be much cost associated
                                    with bringing support to Solaris x86; and with that being said, I'm
                                    not saying that these drivers have to be included with the
                                    distribution, what SUN SHOULD do is ensure that they're available, be
                                    it via a download site or included with the cd, either way, many
                                    people will be happy chappy's if ATI and Nvidia support were bought to
                                    Solaris so that feature for feature, it is on par with Linux.
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