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Re: What causes trauma?

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  • Lindsey
    I saw a recent study that mentioned being isolated, helpless, and/or disconnected. I think so much of it can be in the eye of the beholder. I know during my
    Message 1 of 9 , Oct 3, 2010
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      I saw a recent study that mentioned being isolated, helpless, and/or disconnected. I think so much of it can be in the eye of the beholder. I know during my pregnancy/labor I was able to tolerate things from my midwife because I knew and trusted her that if a strange or brusque person had done the same thing I would have been quite upset. I think that's at the heart of it all...treating women like human beings, offering them true informed consent, and caregivers being truly respectful at this sacred time. It's my personal belief that pregnant women are so intuitive and can really sense the difference between a compassionate caregiver and one that's there to collect a paycheck or even worse to exert control over women. Sadly I think that's why ob-gyns are sued so often. The difference between the usual midwife practice where a relationship is developed and attention is paid to the whole woman vs. the average HMO ob-gyn practice where the woman sees rotating caregivers who don't know her, are usually running very late, spend little time with her, etc. To me that's a recipe for disaster. If my midwife had made an error I would've chalked it up to an honest human error. If the same error was made by a medical practice that was always running late, didn't know my name without looking in a chart, ignored my wishes, I would be irate and find somebody to pin the blame on.
      Not to say that trauma can't be caused by just bad things that happen-but as far as things that can be prevented moving maternity care towards more holistic and respectful is the way to go. I also want to be clear that I know that it's not as simple as all midwives = good and all doctors = bad I know there are good and bad on both sides. It's just unfortunate that one model of care has moved so far in one direction.
      Lindsey
      PS-the study I mentioned:
      Thomson, G., & Downe, S. (2008). Widening the trauma discourse: the link between childbirth and experiences of abuse. Journal of Psychosomatic Obstetrics & Gynecology, 29(4), 268-273. doi:10.1080/01674820802545453.
    • jenneology
      Lindsey, thanks for those ideas! I ll be adding lateness, developing a relationship of trust and high turn over to my list of things that can contribute to
      Message 2 of 9 , Oct 3, 2010
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        Lindsey, thanks for those ideas! I'll be adding lateness, developing a relationship of trust and high turn over to my list of things that can contribute to trauma.

        What are your thoughts on a quiz/self-assessment that maternity providers could take where they get evaluate their behaviors and action in regards to birth trauma? Would they be honest with themselves? Would they get defensive? Could it be helpful or more detrimental to publish this on our website?


        Jenne
        Moderator and Project Coordinator of Solace for Mothers

        --- In solacesupporters@yahoogroups.com, "Lindsey" <lsplumer@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > I saw a recent study that mentioned being isolated, helpless, and/or disconnected. I think so much of it can be in the eye of the beholder. I know during my pregnancy/labor I was able to tolerate things from my midwife because I knew and trusted her that if a strange or brusque person had done the same thing I would have been quite upset. I think that's at the heart of it all...treating women like human beings, offering them true informed consent, and caregivers being truly respectful at this sacred time. It's my personal belief that pregnant women are so intuitive and can really sense the difference between a compassionate caregiver and one that's there to collect a paycheck or even worse to exert control over women. Sadly I think that's why ob-gyns are sued so often. The difference between the usual midwife practice where a relationship is developed and attention is paid to the whole woman vs. the average HMO ob-gyn practice where the woman sees rotating caregivers who don't know her, are usually running very late, spend little time with her, etc. To me that's a recipe for disaster. If my midwife had made an error I would've chalked it up to an honest human error. If the same error was made by a medical practice that was always running late, didn't know my name without looking in a chart, ignored my wishes, I would be irate and find somebody to pin the blame on.
        > Not to say that trauma can't be caused by just bad things that happen-but as far as things that can be prevented moving maternity care towards more holistic and respectful is the way to go. I also want to be clear that I know that it's not as simple as all midwives = good and all doctors = bad I know there are good and bad on both sides. It's just unfortunate that one model of care has moved so far in one direction.
        > Lindsey
        > PS-the study I mentioned:
        > Thomson, G., & Downe, S. (2008). Widening the trauma discourse: the link between childbirth and experiences of abuse. Journal of Psychosomatic Obstetrics & Gynecology, 29(4), 268-273. doi:10.1080/01674820802545453.
        >
      • Lindsey
        My cynical answer is I m guessing the providers that care enough to take the self-quiz would already be practicing compassionately, but I don t know if that s
        Message 3 of 9 , Oct 4, 2010
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          My cynical answer is I'm guessing the providers that care enough to take the self-quiz would already be practicing compassionately, but I don't know if that's entirely fair. I think a big problem is that many providers still view pregnancy and labor as medical emergencies to "deliver" women from. With this view, a rude or misogynistic provider can get away with all sorts of things if mom and baby survive even if they're emotionally or physically traumatized.
          My father in law is an ob anesthesiologist and the head of obstetrics at a hospital. My mother in law is a pediatrician with three really traumatic c-sections. When my husband and I chose to use a midwife my mother in law practically had me arrested (she would've if she could've).
          My father in law has been more open to having discussions about all of these issues...perhaps I should discuss this with him? I've heard him make jokes about obstetric practices, incompetent docs, etc., and it's all fun and games as long as the mom and baby survive-even if the incompetency means serious birth injuries for mom or a c-section because they look at it as an emergency anyways.
          I will ask what he thinks and if the response seems interesting I will post it here with his permission. I think the question, "Do you view pregnancy and birth as a normal process or an emergency in the making?" would tell us a lot.
          Lindsey

          --- In solacesupporters@yahoogroups.com, "jenneology" <jenneology@...> wrote:
          >
          > Lindsey, thanks for those ideas! I'll be adding lateness, developing a relationship of trust and high turn over to my list of things that can contribute to trauma.
          >
          > What are your thoughts on a quiz/self-assessment that maternity providers could take where they get evaluate their behaviors and action in regards to birth trauma? Would they be honest with themselves? Would they get defensive? Could it be helpful or more detrimental to publish this on our website?
          >
          >
          > Jenne
          > Moderator and Project Coordinator of Solace for Mothers
          >
        • Beth McAllister
          I think the question, Do you view pregnancy and birth as a normal process or an emergency in the making? would tell us a lot. This is a really good question
          Message 4 of 9 , Oct 4, 2010
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            I think the question, "Do you view pregnancy and birth as a normal process or an emergency in the making?" would tell us a lot.

            This is a really good question that I encourage parents to ask of their care providers as early as they can, after encouraging them to explore their own beliefs surrounding birth. If parents find themselves with an ob or mw who aren't in line with their own beliefs, one of the possible results is ending up in a situation where they need to advocate for themselves while in a potentially vulnerable state. Not many families are willing or able to do this while laboring, so it's best to ask these questions while they still have time to switch providers, if necessary. Some parents, of course, choose not to leave the care of a provider, for whatever reason, and that's fine too. But asking the question and finding out ahead of time if they're on the same philosophical page can be really helpful for both parents and care-givers, especially if some sort of intervention or unexpected event occurs.

            Beth McAllister
            Birth Doula in Minneapolis


            ---------- Original Message ----------
            From: "Lindsey" <lsplumer@...>
            To: solacesupporters@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [solacesupporters] Re: What causes trauma?
            Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2010 16:49:10 -0000

             

            My cynical answer is I'm guessing the providers that care enough to take the self-quiz would already be practicing compassionately, but I don't know if that's entirely fair. I think a big problem is that many providers still view pregnancy and labor as medical emergencies to "deliver" women from. With this view, a rude or misogynistic provider can get away with all sorts of things if mom and baby survive even if they're emotionally or physically traumatized.
            My father in law is an ob anesthesiologist and the head of obstetrics at a hospital. My mother in law is a pediatrician with three really traumatic c-sections. When my husband and I chose to use a midwife my mother in law practically had me arrested (she would've if she could've).
            My father in law has been more open to having discussions about all of these issues...perhaps I should discuss this with him? I've heard him make jokes about obstetric practices, incompetent docs, etc., and it's all fun and games as long as the mom and baby survive-even if the incompetency means serious birth injuries for mom or a c-section because they look at it as an emergency anyways.
            I will ask what he thinks and if the response seems interesting I will post it here with his permission. I think the question, "Do you view pregnancy and birth as a normal process or an emergency in the making?" would tell us a lot.
            Lindsey

            --- In solacesupporters@yahoogroups.com, "jenneology" <jenneology@...> wrote:
            >
            > Lindsey, thanks for those ideas! I'll be adding lateness, developing a relationship of trust and high turn over to my list of things that can contribute to trauma.
            >
            > What are your thoughts on a quiz/self-assessment that maternity providers could take where they get evaluate their behaviors and action in regards to birth trauma? Would they be honest with themselves? Would they get defensive? Could it be helpful or more detrimental to publish this on our website?
            >
            >
            > Jenne
            > Moderator and Project Coordinator of Solace for Mothers
            >



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          • Jennifer Zimmerman
            I think having discussions prenatally is great advice and really necessary. But, in hospital practices, I don t think it always helps to prevent birth trauma -
            Message 5 of 9 , Oct 30, 2010
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              I think having discussions prenatally is great advice and really necessary. But, in hospital practices, I don't think it always helps to prevent birth trauma - or even to identify if a certain practice isn't a good match. There are often group practices of doctors now and the person just gets whoever is on call for the birth. Even if someone is seeing a single doctor, they don't show up until the end, so the laboring woman is really subjected to the hospital policies and the nurses who are on call. And hospital based midwives in many states function as groups, so a woman may have never met the midwife who attends her in labor. For example, there are about 14 midwives in the practice that I used for my traumatizing birth. Their practice is often recommended by a natural childbirth organization in my state who host events for expecting parents to meet the midwives and encourage them to use their practice for natural hospital birth. I had met 4 of them at my prenatal appointments, and never had any reason to feel that they were anything but naturally minded and willing to work with me and my birth plan. But, during my last prenatal appointment the midwife, who I had seen the most, stripped my membranes without my consent. Then at the birth 3 days later, I had two midwives who I had never met before who did several things to me without my informed consent - and in many cases as I screamed at them not to. There was no way for me to have figured this out prenatally unless I had interviewed all 14 midwives, and all of the labor and delivery nurses who worked at that hospital - in both the midwife unit and the regular unit where I ended up. Sadly, there aren't always warning signs beforehand.


              --- In solacesupporters@yahoogroups.com, "Beth McAllister" <bethmcallister@...> wrote:
              >
              > I think the question, "Do you view pregnancy and birth as a normal process or an emergency in the making?" would tell us a lot.
              >
              > This is a really good question that I encourage parents to ask of their care providers as early as they can, after encouraging them to explore their own beliefs surrounding birth. If parents find themselves with an ob or mw who aren't in line with their own beliefs, one of the possible results is ending up in a situation where they need to advocate for themselves while in a potentially vulnerable state. Not many families are willing or able to do this while laboring, so it's best to ask these questions while they still have time to switch providers, if necessary. Some parents, of course, choose not to leave the care of a provider, for whatever reason, and that's fine too. But asking the question and finding out ahead of time if they're on the same philosophical page can be really helpful for both parents and care-givers, especially if some sort of intervention or unexpected event occurs.
              >
              > Beth McAllister
              > Birth Doula in Minneapolis
              >
              >
              > ---------- Original Message ----------
              > From: "Lindsey" <lsplumer@...>
              > To: solacesupporters@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: [solacesupporters] Re: What causes trauma?
              > Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2010 16:49:10 -0000
              >
              > <!--CTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dt--><span style="display: none;"> </span> <!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStartT|**|-~--><div id="ygrp-mlmsg" style="position: relative;"><div id="ygrp-msg" style="z-index: 1;"><!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEndT|**|-~--><div id="ygrp-text"><p>My cynical answer is I'm guessing the providers that care enough to take the self-quiz would already be practicing compassionately, but I don't know if that's entirely fair. I think a big problem is that many providers still view pregnancy and labor as medical emergencies to "deliver" women from. With this view, a rude or misogynistic provider can get away with all sorts of things if mom and baby survive even if they're emotionally or physically traumatized. <br>My father in law is an ob anesthesiologist and the head of obstetrics at a hospital. My mother in law is a pediatrician with three really traumatic c-sections. When my husband and I chose to use a midwife my mother in law practically had me arrested (she would've if she could've). <br>My father in law has been more open to having discussions about all of these issues...perhaps I should discuss this with him? I've heard him make jokes about obstetric practices, incompetent docs, etc., and it's all fun and games as long as the mom and baby survive-even if the incompetency means serious birth injuries for mom or a c-section because they look at it as an emergency anyways. <br>I will ask what he thinks and if the response seems interesting I will post it here with his permission. I think the question, "Do you view pregnancy and birth as a normal process or an emergency in the making?" would tell us a lot. <br>Lindsey<br><br>--- In <a href="mailto:solacesupporters%40yahoogroups.com">solacesupporters@yahoogroups.com</a>, "jenneology" jenneology@ wrote:<br>><br>> Lindsey, thanks for those ideas! I'll be adding lateness, developing a relationship of trust and high turn over to my list of things that can contribute to trauma. <br>> <br>> What are your thoughts on a quiz/self-assessment that maternity providers could take where they get evaluate their behaviors and action in regards to birth trauma? Would they be honest with themselves? Would they get defensive? Could it be helpful or more detrimental to publish this on our website? <br>> <br>> <br>> Jenne<br>> Moderator and Project Coordinator of Solace for Mothers<br>> <br><br></p></div><!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStart|**|-~--><div style="height: 0px; color: #fff;"></div><!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEnd|**|-~--><!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStart|**|-~--><!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEnd|**|-~--><!-- end group email --></html>
              > ____________________________________________________________
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