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Re: [sohohunter] The Kracht-group comet of 18.01.2012

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  • Rainer Kracht
    Hi Sergei, I have tried to measure 12 positions of SOHO-2225 with Astrometrica but got only two reliable positions, that is with residuals of about one
    Message 1 of 7 , Feb 19, 2012
      Hi Sergei,

      I have tried to measure 12 positions of SOHO-2225 with Astrometrica
      but got only two reliable positions, that is with residuals of about
      one arcsecond for the 20 reference stars.

      These are the two measurements:
      CK12B000 S2012 01 18.93355 20 07 14.79 -19 40 56.9 8.10N 249
      CK12B000 s2012 01 18.93355 2 +0.00418112 -0.00901561 -0.00479484 249
      CK12B000 S2012 01 18.94188 20 07 03.88 -19 41 11.5 7.95N 249
      CK12B000 s2012 01 18.94188 2 +0.00418151 -0.00901552 -0.00479475 249

      The four Kracht group comets from 2001 have short arcs and
      not so well determined orbits with the exception of C/2001 R8.

      The observation from above line up well with those of C/2001 R8
      giving these elements and residuals:

      Ecliptic Osculating Elements (J2000.0) at JD 2452158.500000 Date: 2001/09/06:00:00:00.00
      Body e i w Node q JD-Tp
      CK01R080 0.985411948 13.6124540 59.5998965 42.3491484 0.043638330 -0.6750033
      T = 2001 September 06.68

      Ecliptic Osculating Elements (J2000.0) at JD 2454050.500000 Date: 2006/11/11:00:00:00.00
      Body e i w Node q JD-Tp
      CK01R080 0.985197572 13.5467498 60.0341096 41.9082697 0.044332766 -0.3396121
      T = 2006 November 11.34

      Ecliptic Osculating Elements (J2000.0) at JD 2455945.500000 Date: 2012/01/19:00:00:00.00
      Body e i w Node q JD-Tp
      CK01R080 0.985045185 11.8903299 74.4102812 27.1309356 0.044870669 -0.0601333
      T = 2012 January 19.06

      No Time d|r| (Gm) dRho (Gm) dRA*(") dDec (") dAng (")

      4 20010906.814514 6.675E-04 0.000E+00 -0.515 0.762 0.920
      5 20010906.829974 7.219E-04 -2.842E-14 0.686 0.721 0.995
      6 20010906.838304 1.831E-03 -2.842E-14 -1.318 2.152 2.524
      7 20010906.855944 3.253E-03 2.842E-14 3.443 -2.874 4.485
      8 20010906.896674 1.757E-03 -2.842E-14 1.552 -1.859 2.422
      9 20010906.913304 3.074E-03 2.842E-14 -4.188 -0.652 4.238
      10 20010906.921644 1.740E-03 2.842E-14 -1.427 -1.928 2.398
      11 20010906.939284 5.628E-04 2.842E-14 0.315 0.709 0.776
      12 20010906.963314 3.929E-03 -2.842E-14 -0.871 5.346 5.417
      13 20010906.979984 1.082E-03 2.842E-14 1.150 -0.950 1.492
      14 20010906.996644 1.321E-03 -5.684E-14 1.195 -1.375 1.821
      16 20120118.934333 6.000E-04 -5.684E-14 0.656 0.503 0.827
      17 20120118.942663 6.182E-04 -2.842E-14 -0.660 -0.539 0.852
      RMS -------------- 1.959E-03 3.344E-14 1.771 2.038 2.700

      There was a close approach to Jupiter 2008 March 16 with 1.02 au.

      More reliable positions for SOHO-2225 are needed to confirm this linkage.

      Regards,
      Rainer

      On 19 Feb 2012 at 2:34, Sergei Schmalz wrote:

      > Greetings!
      >
      >
      > I'm still trying to figure out what that comet is going to present us. So, after carefully reading Kracht-group dedicated sections in the "Studies of SOHO Comets" by M.Knight (2008) and taking into consideration the up-to-date data (especially the dynamics of the triple linkage of P/2000 O3 = P/2005 W4 = P/2010 E1), I came up with the following orbital elements by a mere analogy. So, please, dont judge me to strictly, if in the end they will turn out to be totally false, I've been for just two years an amateur astronomer and this is the very first time that I'm trying to analyze orbits. And yes, as Matthew pointed out in his thesis on the p.163, these possible fragments of 2001 might have lost their activity after the 2001 perihelion passage so that they couldnt be detected in 2006 data. Well, as soon as we get orbital measurements, if the result is very similar to the one of the following, then we have a possible linkage:
      >
      > If /2001 Q7 = C/2012 Bn, then i~12.42�, ~29.34�, ~70.65�.
      > If /2001 Q8 = C/2012 Bn, then i~11.97�, ~34.86�, ~66.81�.
      > If /2001 R8 = C/2012 Bn, then i~11.99�, ~33.61�, ~67.77�.
      > If /2001 R9 = C/2012 Bnm then i~10.88�, ~40.32�, ~61.45�.
      > mean P~5.19y
      >
      > If we'll get totally different orbital elements, then the comet of the 18th Jan is none of those four, but this would raise another question - in which data to search for its previous apparition (hopefully then outside a keyhole-period)?
      >
      > Well, I just wanted to share my thoughts and am looking forward to the measurements! ;-)
      >
      > With best wishes
      > Sergei
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
    • sergiuspro
      I GOT IT!!! Sergei
      Message 2 of 7 , Feb 20, 2012
        I GOT IT!!!

        Sergei
      • sergiuspro
        No, wait! That s NOT a Kracht-group comet! That s something totally different, because it goes further to the right border of C3 s FOV (a Kracht-group comet
        Message 3 of 7 , Feb 20, 2012
          No, wait! That's NOT a Kracht-group comet! That's something totally different, because it goes further to the right border of C3's FOV (a Kracht-group comet would turn round behind the Sun right after the perihelion during November days). I could check all images just now. The object doesnt look like one of those asteroids that we can usually see in SOHO's images (Vesta and a couple of others) – it moves faster and ist much brighter, starting with a low brightness near the Sun and increasing thereafter.

          The object is perfectly seen through 9-11th of November 2006.

          So, what's that?!?

          Sergei

          --- In sohohunter@yahoogroups.com, "sergiuspro" <sergiuspro@...> wrote:
          >
          > I GOT IT!!!
          >
          > Sergei
        • sergiuspro
          Just viewed more images, the object is visible in C3 from the noon of the 5th of November till almost the noon of the 12th. Its brightness falls significantly
          Message 4 of 7 , Feb 20, 2012
            Just viewed more images, the object is visible in C3 from the noon of the 5th of November till almost the noon of the 12th. Its brightness falls significantly while approaching the Sun, and then rises again on the way away from it. Is that a NEA?

            Sergei

            --- In sohohunter@yahoogroups.com, "sergiuspro" <sergiuspro@...> wrote:
            >
            > The object is perfectly seen through 9-11th of November 2006.
          • sergiuspro
            Sorry, everyone! That s a Mercury s transit... :-(
            Message 5 of 7 , Feb 20, 2012
              Sorry, everyone! That's a Mercury's transit... :-(

              --- In sohohunter@yahoogroups.com, "sergiuspro" <sergiuspro@...> wrote:
              >
              > Just viewed more images, the object is visible in C3 from the noon of the 5th of November till almost the noon of the 12th. Its brightness falls significantly while approaching the Sun, and then rises again on the way away from it. Is that a NEA?
              >
              > Sergei
            • Szymon Liwo
              Hi Sergei, I suppose Mercury is above your obcject: 20061109_0530_c2_1024 871 518 20061109_0554_c2_1024 876 518 20061109_0606_c2_1024 878 519
              Message 6 of 7 , Feb 20, 2012
                Hi Sergei,

                I suppose Mercury is above your obcject:
                20061109_0530_c2_1024 871 518
                20061109_0554_c2_1024 876 518
                20061109_0606_c2_1024 878 519
                20061109_0626_c2_1024 883 519
                20061109_0650_c2_1024 887 520

                regards
                Szymon

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: sergiuspro
                To: sohohunter@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 12:26 AM
                Subject: [sohohunter] Re: The Kracht-group comet of 18.01.2012



                Sorry, everyone! That's a Mercury's transit... :-(

                --- In sohohunter@yahoogroups.com, "sergiuspro" <sergiuspro@...> wrote:
                >
                > Just viewed more images, the object is visible in C3 from the noon of the 5th of November till almost the noon of the 12th. Its brightness falls significantly while approaching the Sun, and then rises again on the way away from it. Is that a NEA?
                >
                > Sergei





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