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Rocky and IQ balance

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  • aarhus_ca
    Hi I have built a Softrock V4 and gave it away; a V5 and using it and a beta RXTX6 .... In the case of the V5 and the RXTX with Rocky, there has NEVER been
    Message 1 of 10 , Dec 31, 2006
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      Hi
      I have built a Softrock V4 and gave it away; a V5 and using it and a
      beta RXTX6 ....
      In the case of the V5 and the RXTX with Rocky, there has NEVER been
      anything on the 'automatic IQ balance'... both 'sides' are equal - and
      nothing every shows in the little window.

      Tony gave me a clue to get my RXTX receiving - Thanks! - but still
      have something wrong.

      Using a Delta 44 with Tony's board, and the 3/4 input. Output is the
      internal sound card.

      Suggestions welcome!

      Happy New Year
      72 John VE3NFK
    • Alex, VE3NEA
      Hi John, If both I and Q signals are present and equal at the D44 input but the equalizer window is grayed, this is most likely due to a short circuit between
      Message 2 of 10 , Dec 31, 2006
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        Hi John,

        If both I and Q signals are present and equal at the D44 input but the
        equalizer window is grayed, this is most likely due to a short circuit
        between I and Q, either on the RX board or in the cable. Are you using the
        same cable for both radios?


        73&HNY, Alex VE3NEA




        Hi
        I have built a Softrock V4 and gave it away; a V5 and using it and a
        beta RXTX6 ....
        In the case of the V5 and the RXTX with Rocky, there has NEVER been
        anything on the 'automatic IQ balance'... both 'sides' are equal - and
        nothing every shows in the little window.

        Tony gave me a clue to get my RXTX receiving - Thanks! - but still
        have something wrong.

        Using a Delta 44 with Tony's board, and the 3/4 input. Output is the
        internal sound card.

        Suggestions welcome!

        Happy New Year
        72 John VE3NFK
      • aarhus_ca
        Hi Alex, Thanks for the reply ... I metered both the cable and the onboard connector (left/right) and neither are shorted... (that is not to say that both
        Message 3 of 10 , Dec 31, 2006
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          Hi Alex,

          Thanks for the reply ... I 'metered' both the cable and the onboard
          connector (left/right) and neither are shorted...

          (that is not to say that both I/Q are present - except if I invert the
          cable - I continue to receive the same..)

          72 John VE3NFK

          -- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "Alex, VE3NEA" <alshovk@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > Hi John,
          >
          > If both I and Q signals are present and equal at the D44 input but the
          > equalizer window is grayed, this is most likely due to a short circuit
          > between I and Q, either on the RX board or in the cable. Are you
          using the
          > same cable for both radios?
          >
          >
          > 73&HNY, Alex VE3NEA
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Hi
          > I have built a Softrock V4 and gave it away; a V5 and using it and a
          > beta RXTX6 ....
          > In the case of the V5 and the RXTX with Rocky, there has NEVER been
          > anything on the 'automatic IQ balance'... both 'sides' are equal - and
          > nothing every shows in the little window.
          >
          > Tony gave me a clue to get my RXTX receiving - Thanks! - but still
          > have something wrong.
          >
          > Using a Delta 44 with Tony's board, and the 3/4 input. Output is the
          > internal sound card.
          >
          > Suggestions welcome!
          >
          > Happy New Year
          > 72 John VE3NFK
          >
        • Tony Parks
          Hi John, If the I or Q signal is missing, then this will result in no image rejection. A quick check to to measure the DC voltage at pins 1 and 7 of receiver
          Message 4 of 10 , Dec 31, 2006
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            Hi John,
             
            If the I or Q signal is missing, then this will result in no image rejection.  A quick check to to measure the DC voltage at pins 1 and 7 of receiver dual op-amp.  I have seen cases where one of the op-amps was saturated and it resulted in no image rejection.  Another possibility are the connections on the transformer involved with the received signal path.  The pairs of leads for each winding need to wire straight across the pairs of holes.  Let me know if you need greater detail.
             
            73,
            Tony KB9YIG
             
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: aarhus_ca
            Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2006 12:37 PM
            Subject: [softrock40] Re: Rocky and IQ balance

            Hi Alex,

            Thanks for the reply ... I 'metered' both the cable and the onboard
            connector (left/right) and neither are shorted...

            (that is not to say that both I/Q are present - except if I invert the
            cable - I continue to receive the same..)

            72 John VE3NFK

            -- In softrock40@yahoogro ups.com, "Alex, VE3NEA" <alshovk@... > wrote:
            >
            >
            > Hi John,
            >
            > If both I and Q signals are present and equal at the D44 input but the
            > equalizer window is grayed, this is most likely due to a short circuit
            > between I and Q, either on the RX board or in the cable. Are you
            using the
            > same cable for both radios?
            >
            >
            > 73&HNY, Alex VE3NEA
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Hi
            > I have built a Softrock V4 and gave it away; a V5 and using it and a
            > beta RXTX6 ....
            > In the case of the V5 and the RXTX with Rocky, there has NEVER been
            > anything on the 'automatic IQ balance'... both 'sides' are equal - and
            > nothing every shows in the little window.
            >
            > Tony gave me a clue to get my RXTX receiving - Thanks! - but still
            > have something wrong.
            >
            > Using a Delta 44 with Tony's board, and the 3/4 input. Output is the
            > internal sound card.
            >
            > Suggestions welcome!
            >
            > Happy New Year
            > 72 John VE3NFK
            >

          • Alex, VE3NEA
            John, Take a look at the peak detectors on the Rocky status bar. If one of the signals is missing, you will see it immediately. A couple of months ago I spent
            Message 5 of 10 , Dec 31, 2006
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              John,

              Take a look at the peak detectors on the Rocky status bar. If one of the
              signals is missing, you will see it immediately. A couple of months ago I
              spent quite some time trying to make the balancer work - until I noticed
              that I plugged one of the audio cables in a wrong jack ;-)

              73 Alex VE3NEA




              Hi John,

              If the I or Q signal is missing, then this will result in no image
              rejection. A quick check to to measure the DC voltage at pins 1 and 7 of
              receiver dual op-amp. I have seen cases where one of the op-amps was
              saturated and it resulted in no image rejection. Another possibility are
              the connections on the transformer involved with the received signal path.
              The pairs of leads for each winding need to wire straight across the pairs
              of holes. Let me know if you need greater detail.

              73,
              Tony KB9YIG
            • aarhus_ca
              Thanks again Alex and Tony... that was a good suggestion Alex... Yes there is a signal on both with Delta 44: Peak Input L: -74 dBFS R: -73 dBFS The numbers
              Message 6 of 10 , Dec 31, 2006
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                Thanks again Alex and Tony...

                that was a good suggestion Alex...
                Yes there is a signal on both with Delta 44:

                Peak Input L: -74 dBFS R: -73 dBFS

                The numbers vary from -72 -75 without an antenna connected and
                with an antenna the L goes down anywhere from 45 -65 while R stays in
                the 74 range.... if I reverse tip and ring - nothing changes..

                - so that led me to try the onboard sound as the decoder - and it
                DOES have a difference on the high/low sides - the L and R are
                similar around 36 with a strong signal and 45 or so with no antenna

                Something to do with the Delta setup? - but what?

                Tnx John VE3NFK

                --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "Alex, VE3NEA" <alshovk@...> wrote:
                >
                > John,
                >
                > Take a look at the peak detectors on the Rocky status bar. If one of
                the
                > signals is missing, you will see it immediately. A couple of months
                ago I
                > spent quite some time trying to make the balancer work - until I
                noticed
                > that I plugged one of the audio cables in a wrong jack ;-)
                >
                > 73 Alex VE3NEA
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Hi John,
                >
                > If the I or Q signal is missing, then this will result in no image
                > rejection. A quick check to to measure the DC voltage at pins 1 and
                7 of
                > receiver dual op-amp. I have seen cases where one of the op-amps was
                > saturated and it resulted in no image rejection. Another
                possibility are
                > the connections on the transformer involved with the received signal
                path.
                > The pairs of leads for each winding need to wire straight across the
                pairs
                > of holes. Let me know if you need greater detail.
                >
                > 73,
                > Tony KB9YIG
                >
              • Alex, VE3NEA
                { Yes there is a signal on both with Delta 44: Peak Input L: -74 dBFS R: -73 dBFS The numbers vary from -72 -75 without an antenna connected and with an
                Message 7 of 10 , Dec 31, 2006
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                  {
                  Yes there is a signal on both with Delta 44:

                  Peak Input L: -74 dBFS R: -73 dBFS

                  The numbers vary from -72 -75 without an antenna connected and
                  with an antenna the L goes down anywhere from 45 -65 while R stays in
                  the 74 range.... if I reverse tip and ring - nothing changes..
                  }

                  Aha! Your cable is wrong. D44 has mono inputs, so the cable must have two
                  1/2'' connectors with I and Q on the tips a ground on the sleeves. The rings
                  should not be connected.

                  73 Alex VE3NEA
                • aarhus_ca
                  Thanks to Alex and Tony.... Yes Alex - sort-of .... I have Tony s Delta 44 board - and it has 2 vias for the last mic input - the instructions don t
                  Message 8 of 10 , Dec 31, 2006
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                    Thanks to Alex and Tony....

                    Yes Alex - 'sort-of' ....
                    I have Tony's Delta 44 board - and it has 2 'vias' for the last mic
                    input - the instructions don't say so - but they must be jumpered to
                    get the other channel! (Ch 1 and 2 don't have this via)...Tony's
                    board is designed for STEREO mini plugs - but for the missing jumper!
                    Thanks again all.... the IQ balance is now balancing away!!

                    Thanks very much

                    72 John VE3NFK

                    --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "Alex, VE3NEA" <alshovk@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > {
                    > Yes there is a signal on both with Delta 44:
                    >
                    > Peak Input L: -74 dBFS R: -73 dBFS
                    >
                    > The numbers vary from -72 -75 without an antenna connected and
                    > with an antenna the L goes down anywhere from 45 -65 while R stays in
                    > the 74 range.... if I reverse tip and ring - nothing changes..
                    > }
                    >
                    > Aha! Your cable is wrong. D44 has mono inputs, so the cable must
                    have two
                    > 1/2'' connectors with I and Q on the tips a ground on the sleeves.
                    The rings
                    > should not be connected.
                    >
                    > 73 Alex VE3NEA
                    >
                  • Ben Hall
                    Wow, good catch. I just pulled my Delta 44 board out and I too has not installed a jumper on those vias. I have now! The via is shown in the schematic, but I
                    Message 9 of 10 , Dec 31, 2006
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                      Wow, good catch. I just pulled my Delta 44 board out and I too has not
                      installed a jumper on those vias. I have now!

                      The via is shown in the schematic, but I couldn't find a mention of it
                      in the manual...

                      thanks and 72,
                      ben, KD5BYB

                      aarhus_ca wrote:
                      > Thanks to Alex and Tony....
                      >
                      > Yes Alex - 'sort-of' ....
                      > I have Tony's Delta 44 board - and it has 2 'vias' for the last mic
                      > input - the instructions don't say so - but they must be jumpered to
                      > get the other channel! (Ch 1 and 2 don't have this via)...Tony's
                      > board is designed for STEREO mini plugs - but for the missing jumper!
                      > Thanks again all.... the IQ balance is now balancing away!!
                      >
                      > Thanks very much
                      >
                      > 72 John VE3NFK
                    • verduynj
                      John, One simple way to check SOFTROCK I and Q signals is to tune to a steady carrier strength about S9 on the band and using Rocky. Now just connect the I
                      Message 10 of 10 , Jan 1, 2007
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                        John,

                        One simple way to check SOFTROCK I and Q signals is to tune to a
                        steady carrier strength about S9 on the band and using Rocky.

                        Now just connect the I channel and note the response on Rocky in dBs.
                        Next step remove the I channel and connect the Q channel.. Response
                        on Rocky should be the same. This should allow you to trace quickly
                        that I and Q are present.
                        If the gain of one channel is different from the other channel, check
                        the value of the resistors which set the gain around the opamp.

                        Good luck & Happy 2007!!

                        Jan G0BBL


                        --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "Alex, VE3NEA" <alshovk@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        > Hi John,
                        >
                        > If both I and Q signals are present and equal at the D44 input but
                        the
                        > equalizer window is grayed, this is most likely due to a short
                        circuit
                        > between I and Q, either on the RX board or in the cable. Are you
                        using the
                        > same cable for both radios?
                        >
                        >
                        > 73&HNY, Alex VE3NEA
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Hi
                        > I have built a Softrock V4 and gave it away; a V5 and using it and a
                        > beta RXTX6 ....
                        > In the case of the V5 and the RXTX with Rocky, there has NEVER been
                        > anything on the 'automatic IQ balance'... both 'sides' are equal -
                        and
                        > nothing every shows in the little window.
                        >
                        > Tony gave me a clue to get my RXTX receiving - Thanks! - but still
                        > have something wrong.
                        >
                        > Using a Delta 44 with Tony's board, and the 3/4 input. Output is the
                        > internal sound card.
                        >
                        > Suggestions welcome!
                        >
                        > Happy New Year
                        > 72 John VE3NFK
                        >
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