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RE: [softrock40] Question on SDR

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  • Doug Luurs
    Thanks all .. Getting some more equipment is the plan now that I got Extra last month. Been mostly using 2m/23cm .. but I want to get into the lower freq bands
    Message 1 of 29 , Oct 7, 2013
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      Thanks all .. Getting some more equipment is the plan now that I got Extra last month.

      Been mostly using 2m/23cm .. but I want to get into the lower freq bands now and get some

      Range, and I thought starting with a nice little kit would be fun (and it has been so fun).

       

      From: softrock40@yahoogroups.com [mailto:softrock40@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Adam Jacobs
      Sent: Monday, October 07, 2013 5:50 PM
      To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
      Cc: K5MYJ
      Subject: Re: [softrock40] Question on SDR

       

       

      I (fairly) recently got tired of playing games trying to work around my lack of an RF signal generator and went ahead and bought one. If you troll ebay for a while, there are some good deals for around $20-$40 + shipping. The unit I ended up purchasing was something called a "GRG 450b" and I paid $20. It is an analog-box unit, really similar looking UI design as my classic tube heathkit RF signal generator. The difference is that this newer $20 solid-state unit actually works. :)
      I still needed my Fluke frequency counter, since the RF generator doesn't have a digital frequency display (no problem). I'll also need to get inside of it and add some trimmers for fine-tuning the frequency; the main knob on the front is pretty course. It looks a lot like this (much more expensive) BK Precision model:
      http://www.ebay.com/itm/200967685276?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_sacat%3D0%26_from%3DR40%26_nkw%3D200967685276%26_rdc%3D1

      Some basic electronics/radio test equipment is really nice to have in this hobby.

      -73 Adam W7QI

      On 10/7/2013 2:10 PM, K5MYJ wrote:

       

      This is where a signal generator is good to have. You could make a simple one with DIP oscillator, a couple of resistors and a capacitor.

       

      Otherwise you have to know where and when to listen. Having another receiver to listen with on the same antenna is also nice to have.

       

      It's not true there is always something you can hear!

       

      Bob Macklin
      K5MYJ
      Seattle, Wa.
      "Real Radios Glow In The Dark"

      ----- Original Message -----

      Sent: Monday, October 07, 2013 1:59 PM

      Subject: Re: [softrock40] Question on SDR

       

      Any sound card with stereo inputs will work for receive. Some, especially the sound interfaces built into laptops, only have a mono microphone input. Pretty much anything will work for transmit.

      But some sound cards are more equal than others. Higher sample rates (96 or 192 KHz instead of 44.1 or 48) will give you more frequency coverage for the rockbound Softrock Lite receivers (and old designs without an Si570) and a wider band view on any Softrock. Greater sample depth (24 rather than 16 bits) will give you more dynamic range if the card is sufficiently quiet to actually deliver the additional bits of resolution.

      Free hint for desktop computers: the cables that connect to the front panel jacks on many computer cases pick up noise from components inside the computer. Using the rear panel jacks will usually give you better results.

      Try it first with what you've got, unless what you've got is a laptop with a mono input. If you're not content with the level of performance you get, decide how much money you want to spend to improve it and then read the suggestions here.

       

      On Mon, Oct 7, 2013 at 4:49 PM, Douglas Luurs <n8zuu@...> wrote:

       

      Well .. I run out of parts to put on my new SoftRock RX Ensemble II Receiver Kit  ..

      So I guess that means it's time to plug it in and see if it goes BOOM ?  (hehe)

       

      I should have thought of this question a while back .. But do you need a special Sound Card

      for some of the features?

       

      I've got the unit pluged in and it seems to be receiving "Noise" .. I think it's more of an

      antenna issue at the moment thou.

       

      I'm going to built a better dipole this weekend .. the antenna I've got really isnt for HF, but

      I thought I might get a little something as a test.

       

      Thanks all

      '73

       

      Doug

       

       

    • Richard Lawn
      I have not been able to get the beta to work on Win 7 Rick W2JAZ
      Message 2 of 29 , Oct 7, 2013
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        I have not been able to get the beta to work on Win 7
        Rick
        W2JAZ
      • Alan
        ... Subject: RE: Re: [softrock40] RE: E-MU 0202 under Windows 7 - please help ... Mike But security patches are only needed if you have anything that needs
        Message 3 of 29 , Oct 7, 2013
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          ----- Original Message -----
          Subject: RE: Re: [softrock40] RE: E-MU 0202 under Windows 7 - please help


          >
          > When the plug is pulled on the XP security patches in a few months, I guess this is where I will go.
          >

          Mike

          But security patches are only needed if you have anything that needs securing on your computer?
          There will come a time when your favourite SDR program will not run but there are things to be said for an XP SDR computer.

          73 Alan G4ZFQ
        • Alan
          ... Subject: RE: [softrock40] Question on SDR ... learn how to use it! Richard, And the time to do that is when you have something that does NOT require
          Message 4 of 29 , Oct 7, 2013
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            ----- Original Message -----
            Subject: RE: [softrock40] Question on SDR


            >I agree that it is good to have some test equipment. Now, if I can just
            learn how to use it!

            Richard,

            And the time to do that is when you have something that does NOT require repairing:)
            Lean how to use the test equipment with something that is working.
            But most Softrock diagnosis is possible with just a meter and a little guesswork.

            73 Alan G4ZFQ
          • Paul
            Hi Alan The Delta 44 runs fine under Win 7 64 bit here. I ve not seen any error messages. I m running driver version 5.10.0.5078 although I see a newer driver
            Message 5 of 29 , Oct 7, 2013
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              Hi Alan

              The Delta 44 runs fine under Win 7 64 bit here. I've not seen any error messages. I'm running driver version 5.10.0.5078 although I see a newer driver is available

              http://www.m-audio.com/index.php?do=support.drivers&f=1225

              73 Paul G4DCV


              Mike,

              I've just tried my 0202 equivalent (Tracker Pre) on a W7 32 bit and have similar results.
              Record hangs, Playback says "Mode not available on this device". I've not actually tried using it but SDR programs will let you
              select rates that cards do not support. Obvious when you see the display.
              Not much hope for an update, and I've read some comments about later EMUs that do not inspire me to upgrade.

              I've also had Windows 7 messages saying my Delta 44 is incompatible although it actually is working.. for the moment.
              I've no problems with running SDR on XP but it will not be long before some programs will not run on that.

              73 Alan G4ZFQ

              No virus found in this message.
              Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
              Version: 2013.0.3408 / Virus Database: 3222/6727 - Release Date: 10/06/13


            • Gordon JC Pearce
              ... I don t really get why people are so hung up trying to use Windows for SDR. Because it s easier! people say, but this mailing list has roughly twice as
              Message 6 of 29 , Oct 8, 2013
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                On Tue, Oct 08, 2013 at 06:36:34AM -0000, Alan wrote:
                >
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > Subject: RE: Re: [softrock40] RE: E-MU 0202 under Windows 7 - please help
                >
                >
                > >
                > > When the plug is pulled on the XP security patches in a few months, I guess this is where I will go.
                > >
                >
                > Mike
                >
                > But security patches are only needed if you have anything that needs securing on your computer?
                > There will come a time when your favourite SDR program will not run but there are things to be said for an XP SDR computer.
                >
                > 73 Alan G4ZFQ

                I don't really get why people are so hung up trying to use Windows for SDR. "Because it's easier!" people say, but this mailing list has roughly twice as many posts about getting drivers working in Windows as it does discussion of SDR - or indeed radio at all.

                Windows XP is now about 12 years old, and as such doesn't support most of the devices we have in modern-ish computers without a ridiculous amount of faffing. Give it up. Either adapt your software to work with Windows 8, or switch to Linux.

                If you can't adapt the software because it is closed-source and proprietary, it has no place in amateur radio. You wouldn't use a radio that you couldn't work on yourself, would you?

                --
                Gordonjcp MM0YEQ
              • Alan
                ... Subject: Re: Re: [softrock40] RE: E-MU 0202 under Windows 7 - please help ... Gordon, Yes, but we also get a lot of Linux how to? as well. You will
                Message 7 of 29 , Oct 8, 2013
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                  ----- Original Message -----
                  Subject: Re: Re: [softrock40] RE: E-MU 0202 under Windows 7 - please help


                  >
                  > I don't really get why people are so hung up trying to use Windows for SDR. "Because it's easier!" people say, but this mailing
                  > list has roughly twice as many posts about getting drivers working in Windows as it does discussion of SDR - or indeed radio at
                  > all.
                  >

                  Gordon,

                  Yes, but we also get a lot of Linux "how to?" as well.
                  You will always get people who are unfamiliar with an operating system whatever it is.
                  I suspect Linux users are generally more familiar with it's workings?

                  > Windows XP is now about 12 years old, and as such doesn't support most of the devices we have in modern-ish computers without a
                  > ridiculous amount of faffing. Give it up. Either adapt your software to work with Windows 8, or switch to Linux.
                  >

                  So far I've no complaints about XP on computers about 4 years old. Yes, if I decided to get something modern I'd expect problems.
                  But why should I get new hardware if I am satisfied?

                  > If you can't adapt the software because it is closed-source and proprietary, it has no place in amateur radio. You wouldn't use a
                  > radio that you couldn't work on yourself, would you?
                  >

                  I leave the software to others. Like Linux most Windows SDR software is free and written by people who listen to users. Even the
                  proprietary PSDR is able to be adapted for Softrocks and other home-built SDRs.
                  Radios? Even my 10+ year old radios are difficult enough!
                  It seems to me many have few problems with Windows software (apart from configuration) just a simple installation.
                  Linux programs ported to Windows, like Linrad, leave mere Windows users struggling. I've tried but given up, it is so alien.
                  It is a pity, Linux has great potential for SDR but it seems to me it needs to be more Windows-like to attract users over.
                  Even, was it Ubuntu? on the early netbooks was rejected. And Ubuntu seems to me to be rather like Windows for the basic uses. But
                  getting under the hood is something else...
                  But I am biased. I have no real incentive. My XP SDR computer constantly runs a Windows-only beacon monitor program.
                  And, is there a Linux program like SpecLab? Something else I run constantly with Softrocks.

                  73 Alan G4ZFQ
                • Gordon JC Pearce
                  ... Speclab looks like a pretty straightforward FFT waterfall. Is there anything in particular you use it for? -- Gordonjcp MM0YEQ
                  Message 8 of 29 , Oct 8, 2013
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                    On Tue, Oct 08, 2013 at 07:55:24AM -0000, Alan wrote:
                    >
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > But I am biased. I have no real incentive. My XP SDR computer constantly runs a Windows-only beacon monitor program.
                    > And, is there a Linux program like SpecLab? Something else I run constantly with Softrocks.

                    Speclab looks like a pretty straightforward FFT waterfall. Is there anything in particular you use it for?

                    --
                    Gordonjcp MM0YEQ
                  • Alan
                    ... Subject: Re: Re: [softrock40] RE: E-MU 0202 under Windows 7 - please help ... Gordon, My use is simple, a soundcard SDR receiver that records signal
                    Message 9 of 29 , Oct 8, 2013
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                      ----- Original Message -----
                      Subject: Re: Re: [softrock40] RE: E-MU 0202 under Windows 7 - please help


                      >
                      > Speclab looks like a pretty straightforward FFT waterfall. Is there anything in particular you use it for?
                      >

                      Gordon,

                      My use is simple, a soundcard SDR receiver that records signal strengths along with the waterfall.
                      It works with Softrocks, Perseus and others but is relatively clumsy if a SDR receiver is all that is required.
                      There are many aspects hidden within, most of which I do not understand...

                      73 Alan G4ZFQ
                    • Gordon JC Pearce
                      ... If you feel inclined, have a crack at lysdr and tell me what you need it to do. -- Gordonjcp MM0YEQ
                      Message 10 of 29 , Oct 8, 2013
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                        On Tue, Oct 08, 2013 at 08:32:05AM -0000, Alan wrote:
                        >
                        > ----- Original Message -----
                        > Subject: Re: Re: [softrock40] RE: E-MU 0202 under Windows 7 - please help
                        >
                        >
                        > >
                        > > Speclab looks like a pretty straightforward FFT waterfall. Is there anything in particular you use it for?
                        > >
                        >
                        > Gordon,
                        >
                        > My use is simple, a soundcard SDR receiver that records signal strengths along with the waterfall.
                        > It works with Softrocks, Perseus and others but is relatively clumsy if a SDR receiver is all that is required.
                        > There are many aspects hidden within, most of which I do not understand...
                        >
                        > 73 Alan G4ZFQ

                        If you feel inclined, have a crack at lysdr and tell me what you need it to do.

                        --
                        Gordonjcp MM0YEQ
                      • jgspears
                        I have used my E-MU 202 under Windows 7 with no issues. Creative created a beta driver which worked for me though some have reported issues with the driver.
                        Message 11 of 29 , Oct 8, 2013
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                          I have used my E-MU 202 under Windows 7 with no issues.  Creative created a beta driver which worked for me though some have reported issues with the driver.  The driver is available from Creative here  http://support.creative.com/downloads/welcome.aspx?nDriverType=11#type_11  The file is                      EMUU_PCAppDrv_US_1_40_00_BETA.exe .  Be sure to follow the instructions for installation.  See also http://www.telepostinc.com/emu0202.html for some discussion of the emu202. 


                          Good Luck.


                          Joe AF1E



                          ---In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, <gordon@...> wrote:

                          On Tue, Oct 08, 2013 at 08:32:05AM -0000, Alan wrote:
                          >
                          > ----- Original Message -----
                          > Subject: Re: Re: [softrock40] RE: E-MU 0202 under Windows 7 - please help
                          >
                          >
                          > >
                          > > Speclab looks like a pretty straightforward FFT waterfall. Is there anything in particular you use it for?
                          > >
                          >
                          > Gordon,
                          >
                          > My use is simple, a soundcard SDR receiver that records signal strengths along with the waterfall.
                          > It works with Softrocks, Perseus and others but is relatively clumsy if a SDR receiver is all that is required.
                          > There are many aspects hidden within, most of which I do not understand...
                          >
                          > 73 Alan G4ZFQ

                          If you feel inclined, have a crack at lysdr and tell me what you need it to do.

                          --
                          Gordonjcp MM0YEQ
                        • Paul Playford
                          Hello Paul I want to use my Delta 44 with PowerSDR. The 6_0_2_5_10_0_5074 driver loads and the Delta seems to work under Windows 7 64 bit, however when I then
                          Message 12 of 29 , Oct 8, 2013
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                            Hello Paul
                             
                            I want to use my Delta 44 with PowerSDR.  The 6_0_2_5_10_0_5074 driver loads and the Delta seems to work under Windows 7 64 bit, however when I then run PowerSDR I get an error message “deltapnl.dll not found”.
                             
                            Any chance of getting a copy of your 5.10.0.5078 to try?
                             
                            de Paul, W8AEF
                             
                            From: Paul
                            Sent: Monday, October 07, 2013 11:49 PM
                            Subject: Re: [softrock40] E-MU 0202 under Windows 7 - please help
                             
                             

                            Hi Alan

                            The Delta 44 runs fine under Win 7 64 bit here. I've not seen any error messages. I'm running driver version 5.10.0.5078 although I see a newer driver is available

                            http://www.m-audio.com/index.php?do=support.drivers&f=1225

                            73 Paul G4DCV


                          • Alan
                            ... Subject: Re: [softrock40] E-MU 0202 under Windows 7 - please help ... Paul, Strange, this comes up from time to time. I know I had it once. On my page
                            Message 13 of 29 , Oct 8, 2013
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                              ----- Original Message -----
                              Subject: Re: [softrock40] E-MU 0202 under Windows 7 - please help


                              >I want to use my Delta 44 with PowerSDR. The 6_0_2_5_10_0_5074 driver loads and the Delta seems to work under Windows 7 64 bit,
                              >however when I then run PowerSDR I get an error message “deltapnl.dll not found”.


                              Paul,

                              Strange, this comes up from time to time.
                              I know I had it once.
                              On my page
                              "PSDR, D44 and Vista/Windows 7, See http://kc.flex-radio.com/KnowledgebaseArticle50012.aspx OK. I think I found the answer here. I
                              loaded the latest Vista SP2 driver package for the Delta 44 from the M-audio site. I then searched at the M-audio site for
                              "deltapnl" which returns a result of the SDK download. Download the SDK, DELTAPNL.ZIP. and copy the DELTAPNL.DLL file (Yes, this is
                              dated 2003!) inside to the PSDR program folder. After doing this I no longer get the error and PSDR seems to run fine. Doug. This
                              requires registration to download. NOTE this is a PDSR issue, not M-Audio or Windows."



                              73 Alan G4ZFQ
                            • Alan
                              ... Subject: Re: [softrock40] E-MU 0202 under Windows 7 - please help ... Paul, And I wonder what version of PSDR? Strange that this has come up again... 73
                              Message 14 of 29 , Oct 8, 2013
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                                ----- Original Message -----
                                Subject: Re: [softrock40] E-MU 0202 under Windows 7 - please help



                                >I want to use my Delta 44 with PowerSDR.

                                Paul,

                                And I wonder what version of PSDR?
                                Strange that this has come up again...

                                73 Alan G4ZFQ
                              • Paul Playford
                                I think you have made my Delta 44 operate. Next step is to wait until my parallel card arrives so I can control the radio. de Paul, W8AEF From: Alan Sent:
                                Message 15 of 29 , Oct 8, 2013
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                                  I think you have made my Delta 44 operate.
                                   
                                  Next step is to wait until my parallel card arrives so I can control the radio.
                                   
                                  de Paul, W8AEF
                                   
                                  From: Alan
                                  Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2013 10:51 AM
                                  Subject: Re: [softrock40] E-MU 0202 under Windows 7 - please help
                                   
                                   


                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  Subject: Re: [softrock40] E-MU 0202 under Windows 7 - please help

                                  >I want to use my Delta 44 with PowerSDR. The 6_0_2_5_10_0_5074 driver loads and the Delta seems to work under Windows 7 64 bit,
                                  >however when I then run PowerSDR I get an error message “deltapnl.dll not found”.

                                  Paul,

                                  Strange, this comes up from time to time.
                                  I know I had it once.
                                  On my page
                                  "PSDR, D44 and Vista/Windows 7, See http://kc.flex-radio.com/KnowledgebaseArticle50012.aspx OK. I think I found the answer here. I
                                  loaded the latest Vista SP2 driver package for the Delta 44 from the M-audio site. I then searched at the M-audio site for
                                  "deltapnl" which returns a result of the SDK download. Download the SDK, DELTAPNL.ZIP. and copy the DELTAPNL.DLL file (Yes, this is
                                  dated 2003!) inside to the PSDR program folder. After doing this I no longer get the error and PSDR seems to run fine. Doug. This
                                  requires registration to download. NOTE this is a PDSR issue, not M-Audio or Windows."

                                  73 Alan G4ZFQ

                                • Paul Playford
                                  Any version. At the moment I am working with PowerSDR v1.18.6. The Delta 44 appears to be working thanks to your DELTAPNL tip. After I receive and install my
                                  Message 16 of 29 , Oct 8, 2013
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                                    Any version.  At the moment I am working with PowerSDR v1.18.6.  The Delta 44 appears to be working thanks to your DELTAPNL tip.
                                     
                                    After I receive and install my parallel port in my computer I hope to get everything working, then I will probably try later versions of PowerSDR.
                                     
                                    de Paul, W8AEF
                                     
                                    From: Alan
                                    Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2013 10:57 AM
                                    Subject: Re: [softrock40] E-MU 0202 under Windows 7 - please help
                                     
                                     


                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    Subject: Re: [softrock40] E-MU 0202 under Windows 7 - please help

                                    >I want to use my Delta 44 with PowerSDR.

                                    Paul,

                                    And I wonder what version of PSDR?
                                    Strange that this has come up again...

                                    73 Alan G4ZFQ

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