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Re: [softrock40] Re: TXRX software options and sound source switching

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  • Loren Moline WA7SKT
    Guido and others, Because there is software being written for these receivers I thought I would post this question here. I have done some programming in the
    Message 1 of 22 , Dec 1, 2006
      Guido and others,

      Because there is software being written for these receivers I thought I
      would post this question here.

      I have done some programming in the past in Basic and Pascal and am thinking
      of taking up programming again. I am interested in how to write programs for
      sound cards because I see signal processing as a demanding field for
      programmers.

      If I am a beginner as far as soundcard programming goes and I have not
      writen programs that will run in Windows where would I start as far as
      learning first the basics and then write maybe simple routines to start and
      eventually to more complex. Are there tutorials around? What programming
      language would be best to learn? Thanks!


      Loren




      ----Original Message Follows----
      From: Guido <threeme3@...>
      Reply-To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
      To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
      CC: arm@...
      Subject: Re: [softrock40] Re: TXRX software options and sound source
      switching
      Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 15:10:58 +0100

      Hi Andy,

      On 11/25/06, ltj_designs <arm@...> wrote:
      >
      >Thank you for the suggestion. I downloaded the modified powerSDR. I
      >have two sound cards, a built-in (SoundMax) and USB (Soundblaster),
      >but I don't understand how to set them up. Right now I am only using
      >the USB Soundblaster: SoftRock RX going to the sound card line in, a
      >speaker on the speaker output, and a microphone on the microphone
      >input. To transmit, I have to disconnect the speaker and connect the
      >SoftRock TX. I have played with it a lot, but still don't quite get
      >how to use both sound cards.


      What you describe is exactly how it operates within the original PowerSDR
      and how it is intended. The lineout is switched over the speaker and qse
      depending of the mute state. Some soundcards do have a seperate spreaker
      output, in this case the Windows Mixer could be used for switching.

      In my modified version [1], there is dual soundcard support. One soundcard
      may be used to connect the microphone (mic_in) and speaker (line_out), while
      the other soundcard connects the qse (line_out) and qsd (line_in). To use
      this feature, VAC must be enabled; the soundcard for microphone and speaker
      must be selected on the VAC tab; "Use as primary device" must be enabled;
      and on the first tab, the soundcard for qse,qsd must be selected, with
      appropriate mixer settings. I made this configuration to prevent switching,
      and for potential feature to be able to monitor ones transmitted signal.

      I also don't understand how to activate the T/R switch on the V6.0
      >TXRX board when I use the MOX button on the PowerSDR GUI. Is that
      >possible, or do I need an external T/R switch?


      The original powersdr and my modified version using the DB6 (pin 8) output
      on the parallel port to switch the TX, it is negatively clocked by means of
      autofeed signal (pin 14). I know Duncan, m0kgk and Bill, kb5tfd did use an
      easier scheme in their software, but this makes use of a serial port (which
      is probable to be absent on current hardware).
      Currently I am using a switch, maybe I will modify powersdr to just switch
      DB6 in an unclocked fashion,, or maybe I will switch by monitoring the qse
      input.

      Thanks for any help here.
      >
      >Andy
      >

      [1] PowerSDR sr40 extensions,
      http://www.rootshell.be/~pe1nnz<http://www.rootshell.be/%7Epe1nnz>

      73,
      Guido

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    • Ken N9VV
      Loren, I bet that the soundcard programming that you referenced has something to do with DSP. You might want to start with some basic and essential
      Message 2 of 22 , Dec 1, 2006
        Loren, I bet that the "soundcard" programming that you referenced
        has something to do with DSP.

        You might want to start with some basic and essential information
        about DSP technology. Here is a famous website with a FREE copy of
        a massive book called:
        "The Scientist and Engineer's Guide to Digital Signal Processing"
        By Steven W. Smith, Ph.D. http://www.dspguide.com/pdfbook.htm

        there are dozens of other resources out on the web. Flex-Radio
        also has a knowledge base with loads of good information. Bill
        KD5TFD has published modified PowerSDR consoles that support the
        beautiful SoftRock receivers and now the new RxTx that he and Tony
        KB9YIG designed. Look at his website for some of the (free) source
        code in C#

        A soundcard is really just a cheap and convenient (not high
        performance) way to get access to analog to digital and digital to
        analog converter circuits. IMHO: the soundcard was not designed to
        be a general purpose programming resource or testbed for DSP, but
        rather to sell computers.

        GL de ken n9vv



        Loren Moline WA7SKT wrote:
        > Are there tutorials around? What programming
        > language would be best to learn? Thanks!
      • Loren Moline WA7SKT
        Ken, Thanks for the info. As far as analog to digital I once built an ISA card with a simple A to D converter and an address decoder and wrote both basic and
        Message 3 of 22 , Dec 1, 2006
          Ken,

          Thanks for the info. As far as analog to digital I once built an ISA card
          with a simple A to D converter and an address decoder and wrote both basic
          and Pascal programs to read out the digital value for the analog input but
          that was just a 8 bit.

          If I knew the address of the digital value for the sound card input I might
          be able to do the same only in 16 bit. I guess you have to have the milk
          before you eat the meat. I guess this info is available under sound card
          resources.


          Loren




          ----Original Message Follows----
          From: Ken N9VV <n9vv@...>
          Reply-To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
          To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [softrock40] Re: TXRX software options and sound source
          switching
          Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2006 13:19:06 -0600

          Loren, I bet that the "soundcard" programming that you referenced
          has something to do with DSP.

          You might want to start with some basic and essential information
          about DSP technology. Here is a famous website with a FREE copy of
          a massive book called:
          "The Scientist and Engineer's Guide to Digital Signal Processing"
          By Steven W. Smith, Ph.D. http://www.dspguide.com/pdfbook.htm

          there are dozens of other resources out on the web. Flex-Radio
          also has a knowledge base with loads of good information. Bill
          KD5TFD has published modified PowerSDR consoles that support the
          beautiful SoftRock receivers and now the new RxTx that he and Tony
          KB9YIG designed. Look at his website for some of the (free) source
          code in C#

          A soundcard is really just a cheap and convenient (not high
          performance) way to get access to analog to digital and digital to
          analog converter circuits. IMHO: the soundcard was not designed to
          be a general purpose programming resource or testbed for DSP, but
          rather to sell computers.

          GL de ken n9vv



          Loren Moline WA7SKT wrote:
          > Are there tutorials around? What programming
          > language would be best to learn? Thanks!

          _________________________________________________________________
          View Athlete�s Collections with Live Search
          http://sportmaps.live.com/index.html?source=hmemailtaglinenov06&FORM=MGAC01
        • Phil Harman
          Hi Loren, My first attempt at getting into and out of a sound card used PortAudio (www.portaudio.com). This is a very simple API that allows you to capture
          Message 4 of 22 , Dec 1, 2006
            Hi Loren,

            My first attempt at getting into and out of a sound card used PortAudio
            (www.portaudio.com).

            This is a very simple API that allows you to capture samples from a sound
            card and send samples to a sound card. From memory my "Hello World" was to
            create a 1kHz sine wave and send it to the card. I just hacked one of the
            examples on their web site.

            Once you can get data from the sound card and can send data to it then all
            you have to do is the DSP code in the middle - that's the real easy bit ;)

            Having dabbled in VB, C, C++ and now C# if I was starting from scratch I
            would recommend the free MS Visual C# IDE and lean that.

            Hope that helps.

            73's Phil...VK6APH



            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Loren Moline WA7SKT" <lmoline@...>
            To: <softrock40@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 1:31 AM
            Subject: Re: [softrock40] Re: TXRX software options and sound source
            switching


            > Guido and others,
            >
            > Because there is software being written for these receivers I thought I
            > would post this question here.
            >
            > I have done some programming in the past in Basic and Pascal and am
            > thinking
            > of taking up programming again. I am interested in how to write programs
            > for
            > sound cards because I see signal processing as a demanding field for
            > programmers.
            >
            > If I am a beginner as far as soundcard programming goes and I have not
            > writen programs that will run in Windows where would I start as far as
            > learning first the basics and then write maybe simple routines to start
            > and
            > eventually to more complex. Are there tutorials around? What programming
            > language would be best to learn? Thanks!
            >
            >
            > Loren
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ----Original Message Follows----
            > From: Guido <threeme3@...>
            > Reply-To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
            > To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
            > CC: arm@...
            > Subject: Re: [softrock40] Re: TXRX software options and sound source
            > switching
            > Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 15:10:58 +0100
            >
            > Hi Andy,
            >
            > On 11/25/06, ltj_designs <arm@...> wrote:
            >>
            >>Thank you for the suggestion. I downloaded the modified powerSDR. I
            >>have two sound cards, a built-in (SoundMax) and USB (Soundblaster),
            >>but I don't understand how to set them up. Right now I am only using
            >>the USB Soundblaster: SoftRock RX going to the sound card line in, a
            >>speaker on the speaker output, and a microphone on the microphone
            >>input. To transmit, I have to disconnect the speaker and connect the
            >>SoftRock TX. I have played with it a lot, but still don't quite get
            >>how to use both sound cards.
            >
            >
            > What you describe is exactly how it operates within the original PowerSDR
            > and how it is intended. The lineout is switched over the speaker and qse
            > depending of the mute state. Some soundcards do have a seperate spreaker
            > output, in this case the Windows Mixer could be used for switching.
            >
            > In my modified version [1], there is dual soundcard support. One soundcard
            > may be used to connect the microphone (mic_in) and speaker (line_out),
            > while
            > the other soundcard connects the qse (line_out) and qsd (line_in). To use
            > this feature, VAC must be enabled; the soundcard for microphone and
            > speaker
            > must be selected on the VAC tab; "Use as primary device" must be enabled;
            > and on the first tab, the soundcard for qse,qsd must be selected, with
            > appropriate mixer settings. I made this configuration to prevent
            > switching,
            > and for potential feature to be able to monitor ones transmitted signal.
            >
            > I also don't understand how to activate the T/R switch on the V6.0
            >>TXRX board when I use the MOX button on the PowerSDR GUI. Is that
            >>possible, or do I need an external T/R switch?
            >
            >
            > The original powersdr and my modified version using the DB6 (pin 8) output
            > on the parallel port to switch the TX, it is negatively clocked by means
            > of
            > autofeed signal (pin 14). I know Duncan, m0kgk and Bill, kb5tfd did use an
            > easier scheme in their software, but this makes use of a serial port
            > (which
            > is probable to be absent on current hardware).
            > Currently I am using a switch, maybe I will modify powersdr to just switch
            > DB6 in an unclocked fashion,, or maybe I will switch by monitoring the qse
            > input.
            >
            > Thanks for any help here.
            >>
            >>Andy
            >>
            >
            > [1] PowerSDR sr40 extensions,
            > http://www.rootshell.be/~pe1nnz<http://www.rootshell.be/%7Epe1nnz>
            >
            > 73,
            > Guido
            >
            > _________________________________________________________________
            > Get the latest Windows Live Messenger 8.1 Beta version. Join now.
            > http://ideas.live.com
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > --
            > No virus found in this incoming message.
            > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
            > Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.3/561 - Release Date: 1/12/2006
            >
            >



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          • James A
            If your looking for information on how to program sound cards, check out: http://www.portaudio.com/ Jim KA2RVO
            Message 5 of 22 , Dec 1, 2006
              If your looking for information on how to program sound cards,
              check out: http://www.portaudio.com/

              Jim
              KA2RVO

              >From: "Loren Moline WA7SKT" <lmoline@...>
              >Reply-To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
              >To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
              >Subject: Re: [softrock40] Re: TXRX software options and sound source
              >switching
              >Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2006 11:36:30 -0800
              >
              >Ken,
              >
              >Thanks for the info. As far as analog to digital I once built an ISA card
              >with a simple A to D converter and an address decoder and wrote both basic
              >and Pascal programs to read out the digital value for the analog input but
              >that was just a 8 bit.
              >
              >If I knew the address of the digital value for the sound card input I might
              >be able to do the same only in 16 bit. I guess you have to have the milk
              >before you eat the meat. I guess this info is available under sound card
              >resources.
              >
              >
              >Loren
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >----Original Message Follows----
              >From: Ken N9VV <n9vv@...>
              >Reply-To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
              >To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
              >Subject: Re: [softrock40] Re: TXRX software options and sound source
              >switching
              >Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2006 13:19:06 -0600
              >
              >Loren, I bet that the "soundcard" programming that you referenced
              >has something to do with DSP.
              >
              >You might want to start with some basic and essential information
              >about DSP technology. Here is a famous website with a FREE copy of
              >a massive book called:
              >"The Scientist and Engineer's Guide to Digital Signal Processing"
              >By Steven W. Smith, Ph.D. http://www.dspguide.com/pdfbook.htm
              >
              >there are dozens of other resources out on the web. Flex-Radio
              >also has a knowledge base with loads of good information. Bill
              >KD5TFD has published modified PowerSDR consoles that support the
              >beautiful SoftRock receivers and now the new RxTx that he and Tony
              >KB9YIG designed. Look at his website for some of the (free) source
              >code in C#
              >
              >A soundcard is really just a cheap and convenient (not high
              >performance) way to get access to analog to digital and digital to
              >analog converter circuits. IMHO: the soundcard was not designed to
              >be a general purpose programming resource or testbed for DSP, but
              >rather to sell computers.
              >
              >GL de ken n9vv
              >
              >
              >
              >Loren Moline WA7SKT wrote:
              > > Are there tutorials around? What programming
              > > language would be best to learn? Thanks!
              >
              >_________________________________________________________________
              >View Athlete�s Collections with Live Search
              >http://sportmaps.live.com/index.html?source=hmemailtaglinenov06&FORM=MGAC01
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
            • Alberto I2PHD
              ... A few years ago I was asked to write a chapter for a book that was then published by the RSGB. The subject of the chapter was about dealing with the sound
              Message 6 of 22 , Dec 3, 2006
                Loren Moline WA7SKT wrote:
                >
                > If I am a beginner as far as soundcard programming goes and I have not
                > writen programs that will run in Windows where would I start as far as
                > learning first the basics and then write maybe simple routines to start and
                > eventually to more complex. Are there tutorials around? What programming
                > language would be best to learn? Thanks!
                >
                A few years ago I was asked to write a chapter for a book that was then published by the RSGB. The subject of the
                chapter was about dealing with the sound card in Windows, programming-wise. To better explain the text of the chapter, I
                wrote an example program in straight C, not C++, so that everybody could modify and compile it with almost any C
                compiler. The program is called Humid, that stands for HUM Instant Destroyer (forgive me...:-), as it reads audio data
                from the sound card, applies a comb filter to them, tuned either at 50 or 60 Hz, then those filtered audio data are
                played back through the sound card in real time. IMHO it is an easy to understand example of interfacing the sound card
                under Windows, without resorting to other packages, like Portaudio, which, though very good, add unneeded levels of
                complexity, trying to be as general as possible and multiplatform.

                If you want to download the source code of Humid, it is here :
                http://sundry.i2phd.com/humid.zip

                73 Alberto I2PHD
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