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Ensemble RXTX Test Issue

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  • bobbyin4land
    In doing my tests at the completion of the RF I/O section, I started testing R53, R54 and R62. The notes at WB5RVZ shows that the voltage on R62 should be
    Message 1 of 24 , Jun 22 9:04 PM
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      In doing my tests at the completion of the RF I/O section, I started testing R53, R54 and R62. The notes at WB5RVZ shows that the voltage on R62 should be around 2.5 Volts. I get around 0.877 Volts using the hairpin of R50 as a ground reference. (I also used the input power negative terminal solder joint as a reference and got the same.)

      R61 and R62 comprise a voltage divider with each being 1kΩ. When I checked each (already soldered to the board) they were closer to 0.85kΩ +/-. With both being nearly the same, they should have divided the 5V input in half. They didn't.

      Testing the voltage on the source side of R61, I get 5V. I also get 5V between the source side of R61 and the ground side of R62. This is what I expected.

      Does anyone understand why my voltage between R61 and R62 is not 2.5V?


      {Also, it would be nice for the construction notes to specify that L2 needs to be wound in the opposite direction from L3.]


      Bobby in 4 Land
    • Alan
      ... Subject: [softrock40] Ensemble RXTX Test Issue ... Bobby, Somehow I remembered As I am planning to reflow solder the surface mounted devices with solder
      Message 2 of 24 , Jun 22 10:11 PM
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        ----- Original Message -----
        Subject: [softrock40] Ensemble RXTX Test Issue


        > In doing my tests at the completion of the RF I/O section, I started testing R53, R54 and R62. The notes at WB5RVZ shows that the
        > voltage on R62 should be around 2.5 Volts. I get around 0.877 Volts using the hairpin of R50 as a ground reference. (I also used
        > the input power negative terminal solder joint as a reference and got the same.)
        >
        > R61 and R62 comprise a voltage divider with each being 1kΩ. When I checked each (already soldered to the board) they were
        > closer to 0.85kΩ +/-. With both being nearly the same, they should have divided the 5V input in half. They didn't.
        >
        > Testing the voltage on the source side of R61, I get 5V. I also get 5V between the source side of R61 and the ground side of R62.
        > This is what I expected.
        >
        > Does anyone understand why my voltage between R61 and R62 is not 2.5V?
        >
        >
        > {Also, it would be nice for the construction notes to specify that L2 needs to be wound in the opposite direction from L3.]
        >

        Bobby,

        Somehow I remembered "As I am planning to reflow solder the surface mounted devices with solder paste and heat gun, I am wondering
        if installing these devices before installing anything else would be best. (I have not yet found anything in the archives that
        address this.)"

        That is why.

        Not sure what you mean about L2/3. I do not think this has been mentioned before.

        73 Alan G4ZFQ
      • warrenallgyer
        Bobby It feels like you have a 10K at R61 instead of 1K. Testing it in circuit provides multiple parallel resistances and it would be best if you just pull
        Message 3 of 24 , Jun 23 4:55 AM
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          Bobby

          It "feels" like you have a 10K at R61 instead of 1K. Testing it in circuit provides multiple parallel resistances and it would be best if you just pull the hairpin loose and be sure. Alternatively, check that last stripe under a magnifier and a bright light... be sure it is brown and not red.

          Good Luck!

          Warren Allgyer - 9V1TD


          --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "bobbyin4land" <goins0497@...> wrote:
          >
          > In doing my tests at the completion of the RF I/O section, I started testing R53, R54 and R62. The notes at WB5RVZ shows that the voltage on R62 should be around 2.5 Volts. I get around 0.877 Volts using the hairpin of R50 as a ground reference. (I also used the input power negative terminal solder joint as a reference and got the same.)
          >
          > R61 and R62 comprise a voltage divider with each being 1kΩ. When I checked each (already soldered to the board) they were closer to 0.85kΩ +/-. With both being nearly the same, they should have divided the 5V input in half. They didn't.
          >
          > Testing the voltage on the source side of R61, I get 5V. I also get 5V between the source side of R61 and the ground side of R62. This is what I expected.
          >
          > Does anyone understand why my voltage between R61 and R62 is not 2.5V?
          >
          >
          > {Also, it would be nice for the construction notes to specify that L2 needs to be wound in the opposite direction from L3.]
          >
          >
          > Bobby in 4 Land
          >
        • Anthony Casorso
          10k instead of 1k...brown and not red? Which did you mean? Either is 10K/1k red and not orange or its 1k/100 brown and not red or I am having (yet) another
          Message 4 of 24 , Jun 23 9:52 AM
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            10k instead of 1k...brown and not red? Which did you mean? Either is 10K/1k red and not orange or its 1k/100 brown and not red or I am having (yet) another senior moment.

            Tony



            To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
            From: allgyer@...
            Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2013 11:55:53 +0000
            Subject: [softrock40] Re: Ensemble RXTX Test Issue

             
            Bobby

            It "feels" like you have a 10K at R61 instead of 1K. Testing it in circuit provides multiple parallel resistances and it would be best if you just pull the hairpin loose and be sure. Alternatively, check that last stripe under a magnifier and a bright light... be sure it is brown and not red.

            Good Luck!

            Warren Allgyer - 9V1TD

            --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "bobbyin4land" <goins0497@...> wrote:
            >
            > In doing my tests at the completion of the RF I/O section, I started testing R53, R54 and R62. The notes at WB5RVZ shows that the voltage on R62 should be around 2.5 Volts. I get around 0.877 Volts using the hairpin of R50 as a ground reference. (I also used the input power negative terminal solder joint as a reference and got the same.)
            >
            > R61 and R62 comprise a voltage divider with each being 1kΩ. When I checked each (already soldered to the board) they were closer to 0.85kΩ +/-. With both being nearly the same, they should have divided the 5V input in half. They didn't.
            >
            > Testing the voltage on the source side of R61, I get 5V. I also get 5V between the source side of R61 and the ground side of R62. This is what I expected.
            >
            > Does anyone understand why my voltage between R61 and R62 is not 2.5V?
            >
            >
            > {Also, it would be nice for the construction notes to specify that L2 needs to be wound in the opposite direction from L3.]
            >
            >
            > Bobby in 4 Land
            >


          • Bob Macklin
            10K brown black orange 1K brown black red Bob Macklin K5MYJ Seattle, Wa. Real Radios Glow In The Dark ... From: Anthony Casorso To:
            Message 5 of 24 , Jun 23 10:07 AM
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              10K brown black orange
              1K   brown black red
               
              Bob Macklin
              K5MYJ
              Seattle, Wa.
              "Real Radios Glow In The Dark"
              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2013 9:52 AM
              Subject: RE: [softrock40] Re: Ensemble RXTX Test Issue

              10k instead of 1k...brown and not red? Which did you mean? Either is 10K/1k red and not orange or its 1k/100 brown and not red or I am having (yet) another senior moment.

              Tony



              To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
              From: allgyer@...
              Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2013 11:55:53 +0000
              Subject: [softrock40] Re: Ensemble RXTX Test Issue

               
              Bobby

              It "feels" like you have a 10K at R61 instead of 1K. Testing it in circuit provides multiple parallel resistances and it would be best if you just pull the hairpin loose and be sure. Alternatively, check that last stripe under a magnifier and a bright light... be sure it is brown and not red.

              Good Luck!

              Warren Allgyer - 9V1TD

              --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "bobbyin4land" <goins0497@...> wrote:
              >
              > In doing my tests at the completion of the RF I/O section, I started testing R53, R54 and R62. The notes at WB5RVZ shows that the voltage on R62 should be around 2.5 Volts. I get around 0.877 Volts using the hairpin of R50 as a ground reference. (I also used the input power negative terminal solder joint as a reference and got the same.)
              >
              > R61 and R62 comprise a voltage divider with each being 1kΩ. When I checked each (already soldered to the board) they were closer to 0.85kΩ +/-. With both being nearly the same, they should have divided the 5V input in half. They didn't.
              >
              > Testing the voltage on the source side of R61, I get 5V. I also get 5V between the source side of R61 and the ground side of R62. This is what I expected.
              >
              > Does anyone understand why my voltage between R61 and R62 is not 2.5V?
              >
              >
              > {Also, it would be nice for the construction notes to specify that L2 needs to be wound in the opposite direction from L3.]
              >
              >
              > Bobby in 4 Land
              >


            • Bill Cromwell
              ... Hi Tony, I m voting with you and Bob. Maybe all three of us are having senior moments. Nothing new. I ve had them before (evil grin). An ohm meter usually
              Message 6 of 24 , Jun 23 10:17 AM
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                On 06/23/2013 12:52 PM, Anthony Casorso wrote:
                >
                > 10k instead of 1k...brown and not red? Which did you mean? Either is
                > 10K/1k red and not orange or its 1k/100 brown and not red or I am
                > having (yet) another senior moment.
                >
                > Tony
                >

                Hi Tony,

                I'm voting with you and Bob. Maybe all three of us are having senior
                moments. Nothing new. I've had them before (evil grin). An ohm meter
                usually tells the tale on my bench. Some of those paint stripes are useless.

                73,

                Bill KU8H
              • warrenallgyer
                No senior moments..... all four of us are correct. The normal code of course is br-blk-red for 1K and br-blk-org for 10K. RXTX uses 1% resistors with a four
                Message 7 of 24 , Jun 23 3:16 PM
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                  No senior moments..... all four of us are correct.

                  The normal code of course is br-blk-red for 1K and br-blk-org for 10K.

                  RXTX uses 1% resistors with a four band code.

                  1K is br-blk-blk-br-br
                  10K is br-blk-blk-r-br

                  And on these 1/4 watt resistors br looks a lot like r and vice versa. I too check every one with an ohmmeter before putting them in.

                  I believe the fifth band (br) is the tolerance indicator.

                  Warren Allgyer - 9V1TD

                  --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, Bill Cromwell <wrcromwell@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > On 06/23/2013 12:52 PM, Anthony Casorso wrote:
                  > >
                  > > 10k instead of 1k...brown and not red? Which did you mean? Either is
                  > > 10K/1k red and not orange or its 1k/100 brown and not red or I am
                  > > having (yet) another senior moment.
                  > >
                  > > Tony
                  > >
                  >
                  > Hi Tony,
                  >
                  > I'm voting with you and Bob. Maybe all three of us are having senior
                  > moments. Nothing new. I've had them before (evil grin). An ohm meter
                  > usually tells the tale on my bench. Some of those paint stripes are useless.
                  >
                  > 73,
                  >
                  > Bill KU8H
                  >
                • Bill Maxwell
                  Are we talking about common 5 or 10% tolerance resistors or much tighter 1% tolerance types. How many bands? ... Are we talking about common 5 or 10% tolerance
                  Message 8 of 24 , Jun 23 4:27 PM
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                    Are we talking about common 5 or 10% tolerance resistors or much tighter 1% tolerance types. How many bands?
                    On 24/06/2013 2:52 AM, Anthony Casorso wrote:
                    10k instead of 1k...brown and not red? Which did you mean? Either is 10K/1k red and not orange or its 1k/100 brown and not red or I am having (yet) another senior moment.

                    Tony



                    To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                    From: allgyer@...
                    Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2013 11:55:53 +0000
                    Subject: [softrock40] Re: Ensemble RXTX Test Issue

                     
                    Bobby

                    It "feels" like you have a 10K at R61 instead of 1K. Testing it in circuit provides multiple parallel resistances and it would be best if you just pull the hairpin loose and be sure. Alternatively, check that last stripe under a magnifier and a bright light... be sure it is brown and not red.

                    Good Luck!

                    Warren Allgyer - 9V1TD

                    --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "bobbyin4land" <goins0497@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > In doing my tests at the completion of the RF I/O section, I started testing R53, R54 and R62. The notes at WB5RVZ shows that the voltage on R62 should be around 2.5 Volts. I get around 0.877 Volts using the hairpin of R50 as a ground reference. (I also used the input power negative terminal solder joint as a reference and got the same.)
                    >
                    > R61 and R62 comprise a voltage divider with each being 1kΩ. When I checked each (already soldered to the board) they were closer to 0.85kΩ +/-. With both being nearly the same, they should have divided the 5V input in half. They didn't.
                    >
                    > Testing the voltage on the source side of R61, I get 5V. I also get 5V between the source side of R61 and the ground side of R62. This is what I expected.
                    >
                    > Does anyone understand why my voltage between R61 and R62 is not 2.5V?
                    >
                    >
                    > {Also, it would be nice for the construction notes to specify that L2 needs to be wound in the opposite direction from L3.]
                    >
                    >
                    > Bobby in 4 Land
                    >



                  • bobbyin4land
                    Okay... Here s what I ve found so far.... 1) I did unsolder the hairpins on R61 and R62. They measured 1K. 2) After re-soldering them back in, I removed T5
                    Message 9 of 24 , Jun 23 5:27 PM
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                      Okay... Here's what I've found so far....

                      1) I did unsolder the hairpins on R61 and R62. They measured 1K.

                      2) After re-soldering them back in, I removed T5 (which is fed from the voltage divider. I still got the same voltage at the hairpin of R62.

                      3) After re-soldering T5 back in (what a pain!), I rechecked the solder joint of C70. It looked good.

                      4) The only other thing connected to the voltage divider is the op-amp stage. I do not plan to remove them, as they are SMD.

                      Alan's response to my issue has merit. I did install these out of sequence.


                      Bobby in 4 Land

                      --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, Bill Maxwell <wrmaxwell@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Are we talking about common 5 or 10% tolerance resistors or much tighter
                      > 1% tolerance types. How many bands?
                      > On 24/06/2013 2:52 AM, Anthony Casorso wrote:
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > 10k instead of 1k...brown and not red? Which did you mean? Either is
                      > > 10K/1k red and not orange or its 1k/100 brown and not red or I am
                      > > having (yet) another senior moment.
                      > >
                      > > Tony
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                      > > To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                      > > From: allgyer@...
                      > > Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2013 11:55:53 +0000
                      > > Subject: [softrock40] Re: Ensemble RXTX Test Issue
                      > >
                      > > Bobby
                      > >
                      > > It "feels" like you have a 10K at R61 instead of 1K. Testing it in
                      > > circuit provides multiple parallel resistances and it would be best if
                      > > you just pull the hairpin loose and be sure. Alternatively, check that
                      > > last stripe under a magnifier and a bright light... be sure it is
                      > > brown and not red.
                      > >
                      > > Good Luck!
                      > >
                      > > Warren Allgyer - 9V1TD
                      > >
                      > > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                      > > <mailto:softrock40%40yahoogroups.com>, "bobbyin4land" <goins0497@>
                      > > wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > In doing my tests at the completion of the RF I/O section, I started
                      > > testing R53, R54 and R62. The notes at WB5RVZ shows that the voltage
                      > > on R62 should be around 2.5 Volts. I get around 0.877 Volts using the
                      > > hairpin of R50 as a ground reference. (I also used the input power
                      > > negative terminal solder joint as a reference and got the same.)
                      > > >
                      > > > R61 and R62 comprise a voltage divider with each being 1kÙ. When I
                      > > checked each (already soldered to the board) they were closer to
                      > > 0.85kÙ +/-. With both being nearly the same, they should have divided
                      > > the 5V input in half. They didn't.
                      > > >
                      > > > Testing the voltage on the source side of R61, I get 5V. I also get
                      > > 5V between the source side of R61 and the ground side of R62. This is
                      > > what I expected.
                      > > >
                      > > > Does anyone understand why my voltage between R61 and R62 is not 2.5V?
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > {Also, it would be nice for the construction notes to specify that
                      > > L2 needs to be wound in the opposite direction from L3.]
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > Bobby in 4 Land
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                    • Milt Cram
                      ... Hi All, Here is some info on resistor color codes-- http://www.hobby-hour.com/electronics/resistorcalculator.php 73, Milt W8NUE
                      Message 10 of 24 , Jun 23 6:35 PM
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                        On 6/23/2013 5:16 PM, warrenallgyer wrote:
                        > No senior moments..... all four of us are correct.
                        >
                        > The normal code of course is br-blk-red for 1K and br-blk-org for 10K.
                        >
                        > RXTX uses 1% resistors with a four band code.
                        >
                        > 1K is br-blk-blk-br-br
                        > 10K is br-blk-blk-r-br
                        >
                        > And on these 1/4 watt resistors br looks a lot like r and vice versa. I too check every one with an ohmmeter before putting them in.
                        >
                        > I believe the fifth band (br) is the tolerance indicator.
                        >
                        > Warren Allgyer - 9V1TD
                        >
                        > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, Bill Cromwell <wrcromwell@...> wrote:
                        >> On 06/23/2013 12:52 PM, Anthony Casorso wrote:
                        >>> 10k instead of 1k...brown and not red? Which did you mean? Either is
                        >>> 10K/1k red and not orange or its 1k/100 brown and not red or I am
                        >>> having (yet) another senior moment.
                        >>>
                        >>> Tony
                        >>>
                        >> Hi Tony,
                        >>
                        >> I'm voting with you and Bob. Maybe all three of us are having senior
                        >> moments. Nothing new. I've had them before (evil grin). An ohm meter
                        >> usually tells the tale on my bench. Some of those paint stripes are useless.
                        >>
                        >> 73,
                        >>
                        >> Bill KU8H
                        >>
                        Hi All,

                        Here is some info on resistor color codes--
                        http://www.hobby-hour.com/electronics/resistorcalculator.php

                        73, Milt
                        W8NUE
                      • warrenallgyer
                        Here is something you can try: Use solderwick and take away as much of the solder as possible from pins 3 and 5 of the op amp. Then heat each one separately
                        Message 11 of 24 , Jun 23 6:58 PM
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                          Here is something you can try:

                          Use solderwick and take away as much of the solder as possible from pins 3 and 5 of the op amp. Then heat each one separately and, VERY GENTLY, lift the pin from the land with a knife point or similar sharp. Doing this will remove the op amp as the cause without removing the whole chip.

                          It is risky and very delicate.... but it would be my next step and I have done it successfully a number of times.

                          Warren Allgyer - 9V1TD

                          Once that is done your only culprits can be C43 and C70.

                          --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "bobbyin4land" <goins0497@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Okay... Here's what I've found so far....
                          >
                          > 1) I did unsolder the hairpins on R61 and R62. They measured 1K.
                          >
                          > 2) After re-soldering them back in, I removed T5 (which is fed from the voltage divider. I still got the same voltage at the hairpin of R62.
                          >
                          > 3) After re-soldering T5 back in (what a pain!), I rechecked the solder joint of C70. It looked good.
                          >
                          > 4) The only other thing connected to the voltage divider is the op-amp stage. I do not plan to remove them, as they are SMD.
                          >
                          > Alan's response to my issue has merit. I did install these out of sequence.
                          >
                          >
                          > Bobby in 4 Land
                          >
                          > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, Bill Maxwell <wrmaxwell@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Are we talking about common 5 or 10% tolerance resistors or much tighter
                          > > 1% tolerance types. How many bands?
                          > > On 24/06/2013 2:52 AM, Anthony Casorso wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > 10k instead of 1k...brown and not red? Which did you mean? Either is
                          > > > 10K/1k red and not orange or its 1k/100 brown and not red or I am
                          > > > having (yet) another senior moment.
                          > > >
                          > > > Tony
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                          > > > To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                          > > > From: allgyer@
                          > > > Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2013 11:55:53 +0000
                          > > > Subject: [softrock40] Re: Ensemble RXTX Test Issue
                          > > >
                          > > > Bobby
                          > > >
                          > > > It "feels" like you have a 10K at R61 instead of 1K. Testing it in
                          > > > circuit provides multiple parallel resistances and it would be best if
                          > > > you just pull the hairpin loose and be sure. Alternatively, check that
                          > > > last stripe under a magnifier and a bright light... be sure it is
                          > > > brown and not red.
                          > > >
                          > > > Good Luck!
                          > > >
                          > > > Warren Allgyer - 9V1TD
                          > > >
                          > > > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                          > > > <mailto:softrock40%40yahoogroups.com>, "bobbyin4land" <goins0497@>
                          > > > wrote:
                          > > > >
                          > > > > In doing my tests at the completion of the RF I/O section, I started
                          > > > testing R53, R54 and R62. The notes at WB5RVZ shows that the voltage
                          > > > on R62 should be around 2.5 Volts. I get around 0.877 Volts using the
                          > > > hairpin of R50 as a ground reference. (I also used the input power
                          > > > negative terminal solder joint as a reference and got the same.)
                          > > > >
                          > > > > R61 and R62 comprise a voltage divider with each being 1kÙ. When I
                          > > > checked each (already soldered to the board) they were closer to
                          > > > 0.85kÙ +/-. With both being nearly the same, they should have divided
                          > > > the 5V input in half. They didn't.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Testing the voltage on the source side of R61, I get 5V. I also get
                          > > > 5V between the source side of R61 and the ground side of R62. This is
                          > > > what I expected.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Does anyone understand why my voltage between R61 and R62 is not 2.5V?
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > > {Also, it would be nice for the construction notes to specify that
                          > > > L2 needs to be wound in the opposite direction from L3.]
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Bobby in 4 Land
                          > > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > >
                          >
                        • bobbyin4land
                          This issue is resolved. I went ahead and did the RX Mixer and the RX OPamp & Output stages. I still got the crazy voltage levels on the RX Mixer test. When I
                          Message 12 of 24 , Jun 23 8:04 PM
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                            This issue is resolved.

                            I went ahead and did the RX Mixer and the RX OPamp & Output stages.

                            I still got the crazy voltage levels on the RX Mixer test.

                            When I finished the RX OPamp stage, the test results showed that the 5V bus was now working. I went back to the tests for the RF I/O & Switching test and the values were what they should be. The same applies to the RX Mixer tests.

                            I guess the moral of this story is that if you do install the SMD parts first, you will temporarily get funky test results for some of the test results on the 5V bus.

                            Bobby in 4 Land

                            BTW: The hardest part of this so far, is stripping off the enamel from the transformer and inductor wires with emery cloth <grin>.



                            --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "warrenallgyer" <allgyer@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Here is something you can try:
                            >
                            > Use solderwick and take away as much of the solder as possible from pins 3 and 5 of the op amp. Then heat each one separately and, VERY GENTLY, lift the pin from the land with a knife point or similar sharp. Doing this will remove the op amp as the cause without removing the whole chip.
                            >
                            > It is risky and very delicate.... but it would be my next step and I have done it successfully a number of times.
                            >
                            > Warren Allgyer - 9V1TD
                            >
                            > Once that is done your only culprits can be C43 and C70.
                            >
                            > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "bobbyin4land" <goins0497@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Okay... Here's what I've found so far....
                            > >
                            > > 1) I did unsolder the hairpins on R61 and R62. They measured 1K.
                            > >
                            > > 2) After re-soldering them back in, I removed T5 (which is fed from the voltage divider. I still got the same voltage at the hairpin of R62.
                            > >
                            > > 3) After re-soldering T5 back in (what a pain!), I rechecked the solder joint of C70. It looked good.
                            > >
                            > > 4) The only other thing connected to the voltage divider is the op-amp stage. I do not plan to remove them, as they are SMD.
                            > >
                            > > Alan's response to my issue has merit. I did install these out of sequence.
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Bobby in 4 Land
                            > >
                            > > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, Bill Maxwell <wrmaxwell@> wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > > Are we talking about common 5 or 10% tolerance resistors or much tighter
                            > > > 1% tolerance types. How many bands?
                            > > > On 24/06/2013 2:52 AM, Anthony Casorso wrote:
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > 10k instead of 1k...brown and not red? Which did you mean? Either is
                            > > > > 10K/1k red and not orange or its 1k/100 brown and not red or I am
                            > > > > having (yet) another senior moment.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Tony
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                            > > > > To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                            > > > > From: allgyer@
                            > > > > Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2013 11:55:53 +0000
                            > > > > Subject: [softrock40] Re: Ensemble RXTX Test Issue
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Bobby
                            > > > >
                            > > > > It "feels" like you have a 10K at R61 instead of 1K. Testing it in
                            > > > > circuit provides multiple parallel resistances and it would be best if
                            > > > > you just pull the hairpin loose and be sure. Alternatively, check that
                            > > > > last stripe under a magnifier and a bright light... be sure it is
                            > > > > brown and not red.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Good Luck!
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Warren Allgyer - 9V1TD
                            > > > >
                            > > > > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                            > > > > <mailto:softrock40%40yahoogroups.com>, "bobbyin4land" <goins0497@>
                            > > > > wrote:
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > In doing my tests at the completion of the RF I/O section, I started
                            > > > > testing R53, R54 and R62. The notes at WB5RVZ shows that the voltage
                            > > > > on R62 should be around 2.5 Volts. I get around 0.877 Volts using the
                            > > > > hairpin of R50 as a ground reference. (I also used the input power
                            > > > > negative terminal solder joint as a reference and got the same.)
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > R61 and R62 comprise a voltage divider with each being 1kÙ. When I
                            > > > > checked each (already soldered to the board) they were closer to
                            > > > > 0.85kÙ +/-. With both being nearly the same, they should have divided
                            > > > > the 5V input in half. They didn't.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > Testing the voltage on the source side of R61, I get 5V. I also get
                            > > > > 5V between the source side of R61 and the ground side of R62. This is
                            > > > > what I expected.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > Does anyone understand why my voltage between R61 and R62 is not 2.5V?
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > {Also, it would be nice for the construction notes to specify that
                            > > > > L2 needs to be wound in the opposite direction from L3.]
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > Bobby in 4 Land
                            > > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > >
                            > >
                            >
                          • Alan
                            ... Subject: [softrock40] Re: Ensemble RXTX Test Issue - RESOLVED ... Bobby, I did not realise you would be following Robby s way. The results are not funky,
                            Message 13 of 24 , Jun 23 11:40 PM
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                              ----- Original Message -----
                              Subject: [softrock40] Re: Ensemble RXTX Test Issue - RESOLVED


                              >I guess the moral of this story is that if you do install the SMD parts first, you will temporarily get funky test results for some
                              >of the test results on the 5V bus.

                              Bobby,

                              I did not realise you would be following Robby's way.
                              The results are not funky, Robby gives what he found without U11 fitted.
                              I think it was decided that when U11 is fitted, and nothing else, protection diodes in its inputs pulls the 2V5 down. When the rest
                              of the components are fitted it is properly biassed.

                              >BTW: The hardest part of this so far, is stripping off the enamel from the transformer and inductor wires with emery cloth <grin>.

                              This is actually self-fluxing wire.
                              With a HOT iron it may be tinned. But care must be taken to ensure it really has tinned.
                              Emery or scraping may weaken the wire if it gets nicked.

                              73 Alan G4ZFQ
                            • Chris Wilson
                              ... 24/06/2013 10:47 I have always been curious as to how enamelled wire is stripped in a production environment, it s a PITA at a hobby level.
                              Message 14 of 24 , Jun 24 2:52 AM
                              • 0 Attachment
                                <Text Snipped>


                                >>BTW: The hardest part of this so far, is stripping off the enamel from the transformer and inductor wires with emery cloth <grin>.

                                > This is actually self-fluxing wire.
                                > With a HOT iron it may be tinned. But care must be taken to ensure it really has tinned.
                                > Emery or scraping may weaken the wire if it gets nicked.

                                > 73 Alan G4ZFQ




                                24/06/2013 10:47

                                I have always been curious as to how enamelled wire is stripped in a
                                production environment, it's a PITA at a hobby level. I have some
                                "triple coated" wire here, and it's a bear to strip as heat doesn't do
                                it, and the makers actually say this is not a viable method. I was
                                wondering if there are solvents to do it? Anyone know what the enamel
                                actually is made from? As you say Alan, mechanical removal can easily
                                thin or nick the wire and make it easily fractured.

                                --
                                Best Regards,
                                Chris Wilson. 2E0ILY
                              • Jack Smith
                                A solder pot is used - dip the lead in the molten pot of solder and move it around for a few seconds. I usually first dip the wire into liquid solder flux, but
                                Message 15 of 24 , Jun 24 3:31 AM
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                                  A solder pot is used - dip the lead in the molten pot of solder and move it around for a few seconds. I usually first dip the wire into liquid solder flux, but that's isn't strictly necessary.

                                  Some more aggressive paint removers will also dissolve the enamel, but you have to be careful not to splash it into places where you don't want the insulation dissolved.

                                  Also, some insulation is not "solder strippable" or "self-fluxing" for example the 200 deg C rated insulation. In the USA, 200 deg C magnet wire is usually gold colored.

                                  Jack K8ZOA
                                   
                                  On 6/24/2013 5:52 AM, Chris Wilson wrote:
                                   

                                  <Text Snipped>

                                  >>BTW: The hardest part of this so far, is stripping off the enamel from the transformer and inductor wires with emery cloth <grin>.

                                  > This is actually self-fluxing wire.
                                  > With a HOT iron it may be tinned. But care must be taken to ensure it really has tinned.
                                  > Emery or scraping may weaken the wire if it gets nicked.

                                  > 73 Alan G4ZFQ

                                  24/06/2013 10:47

                                  I have always been curious as to how enamelled wire is stripped in a
                                  production environment, it's a PITA at a hobby level. I have some
                                  "triple coated" wire here, and it's a bear to strip as heat doesn't do
                                  it, and the makers actually say this is not a viable method. I was
                                  wondering if there are solvents to do it? Anyone know what the enamel
                                  actually is made from? As you say Alan, mechanical removal can easily
                                  thin or nick the wire and make it easily fractured.

                                  --
                                  Best Regards,
                                  Chris Wilson. 2E0ILY


                                • Alan
                                  ... Subject: Re: [softrock40] Re: Ensemble RXTX Test Issue - RESOLVED ... Chris Here they seem
                                  Message 16 of 24 , Jun 24 3:49 AM
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                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    Subject: Re: [softrock40] Re: Ensemble RXTX Test Issue - RESOLVED


                                    >I have some
                                    > "triple coated" wire here, and it's a bear to strip as heat doesn't do
                                    > it, and the makers actually say this is not a viable method.

                                    Chris

                                    Here <http://www.furukawa.co.jp/makisen/eng/product/texe_feature.htm> they seem to say solder.
                                    "Soldered without any surface layer bared (stripped)."

                                    Lots on the internet but heat seems to be a common answer.

                                    73 Alan G4ZFQ
                                  • Chris Wilson
                                    ... 24/06/2013 12:40 I may try a pencil butane torch to locally and quickly heat the triple enamel, or whatever the coatings are, then solder. Certainly the
                                    Message 17 of 24 , Jun 24 4:44 AM
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      >

                                      > ----- Original Message -----
                                      > Subject: Re: [softrock40] Re: Ensemble RXTX Test Issue - RESOLVED

                                      >>I have some
                                      >> "triple coated" wire here, and it's a bear to strip as heat doesn't do
                                      >> it, and the makers actually say this is not a viable method.

                                      > Chris

                                      > Here
                                      > <http://www.furukawa.co.jp/makisen/eng/product/texe_feature.htm> they seem to say solder.
                                      > "Soldered without any surface layer bared (stripped)."

                                      > Lots on the internet but heat seems to be a common answer.

                                      > 73 Alan G4ZFQ


                                      24/06/2013 12:40


                                      I may try a pencil butane torch to locally and quickly heat the triple
                                      enamel, or whatever the coatings are, then solder. Certainly the
                                      highest range my Pace iron controller goes to won't strip it properly.
                                      It will "bubble" it, but not remove it enough for the solder / flux to
                                      molecularly bond. The normal enamelled wire (like from RS, Maplins, or
                                      in the Softrock kits, strips and solders just fine with high soldering
                                      iron temps, albeit with acrid fumes). Thanks for the link Alan.

                                      --

                                      Best Regards, Chris Wilson.
                                      2E0ILY
                                    • Glen
                                      Yes, they make enameled wire where 600F heat will burn off the coating. In production cases, they have a small solder pot and dip the wires in. They come out
                                      Message 18 of 24 , Jun 24 4:55 AM
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                                        Yes, they make enameled wire where 600F heat will burn off the coating.  In production cases, they have a small solder pot and dip
                                        the wires in.  They come out perfectly tinned!
                                         
                                        73's
                                         
                                        Glen K4KV
                                         
                                        -----Original Message-----
                                        From: softrock40@yahoogroups.com [mailto:softrock40@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Chris Wilson
                                        Sent: Monday, June 24, 2013 7:45 AM
                                        To: Alan
                                        Subject: Re: [softrock40] Re: Ensemble RXTX Test Issue - RESOLVED

                                         



                                        >

                                        > ----- Original Message -----
                                        > Subject: Re: [softrock40] Re: Ensemble RXTX Test Issue - RESOLVED

                                        >>I have some
                                        >> "triple coated" wire here, and it's a bear to strip as heat doesn't do
                                        >> it, and the makers actually say this is not a viable method.

                                        > Chris

                                        > Here
                                        > <http://www.furukawa.co.jp/makisen/eng/product/texe_feature.htm> they seem to say solder.
                                        > "Soldered without any surface layer bared (stripped)."

                                        > Lots on the internet but heat seems to be a common answer.

                                        > 73 Alan G4ZFQ

                                        24/06/2013 12:40

                                        I may try a pencil butane torch to locally and quickly heat the triple
                                        enamel, or whatever the coatings are, then solder. Certainly the
                                        highest range my Pace iron controller goes to won't strip it properly.
                                        It will "bubble" it, but not remove it enough for the solder / flux to
                                        molecularly bond. The normal enamelled wire (like from RS, Maplins, or
                                        in the Softrock kits, strips and solders just fine with high soldering
                                        iron temps, albeit with acrid fumes). Thanks for the link Alan.

                                        --

                                        Best Regards, Chris Wilson.
                                        2E0ILY

                                      • Jack Smith
                                        You might also consider a Knipex stripping tool designed for magnet wire. I use one with excellent results on high temperature magnet wire.
                                        Message 19 of 24 , Jun 24 5:14 AM
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                                          You might also consider a Knipex stripping tool designed for magnet wire. I use one with excellent results on high temperature magnet wire.

                                          http://www.knipex.com/index.php?id=1216&L=1&page=group_detail&parentID=1363&groupID=1390

                                          The jaws are serrated and you pull the tool along the wire length and scrape the insulating coating off the wire.

                                          It does not nick the wire like a standard stripping tool. I've never had a wire failure due to the Knipex tool. The blades are wire size specific.

                                          Jack

                                          On 6/24/2013 7:44 AM, Chris Wilson wrote:
                                           



                                          >

                                          > ----- Original Message -----
                                          > Subject: Re: [softrock40] Re: Ensemble RXTX Test Issue - RESOLVED

                                          >>I have some
                                          >> "triple coated" wire here, and it's a bear to strip as heat doesn't do
                                          >> it, and the makers actually say this is not a viable method.

                                          > Chris

                                          > Here
                                          > <http://www.furukawa.co.jp/makisen/eng/product/texe_feature.htm> they seem to say solder.
                                          > "Soldered without any surface layer bared (stripped)."

                                          > Lots on the internet but heat seems to be a common answer.

                                          > 73 Alan G4ZFQ

                                          24/06/2013 12:40

                                          I may try a pencil butane torch to locally and quickly heat the triple
                                          enamel, or whatever the coatings are, then solder. Certainly the
                                          highest range my Pace iron controller goes to won't strip it properly.
                                          It will "bubble" it, but not remove it enough for the solder / flux to
                                          molecularly bond. The normal enamelled wire (like from RS, Maplins, or
                                          in the Softrock kits, strips and solders just fine with high soldering
                                          iron temps, albeit with acrid fumes). Thanks for the link Alan.

                                          --

                                          Best Regards, Chris Wilson.
                                          2E0ILY


                                        • km5ht
                                          There is not much left that could be pulling that voltage down. C70, C43, and U11. I would clean the pins of U11 with isopropyl alcohol and inspect with a 7X
                                          Message 20 of 24 , Jun 24 5:21 AM
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                                            There is not much left that could be pulling that voltage down.

                                            C70, C43, and U11. I would clean the pins of U11 with isopropyl alcohol and inspect with a 7X magnifier. If you have to, remove the parts one at a time. I accidentally soldered one of the 16 pin ICs in upside down. I heated it with a heat gun until the solder flowed and then flicked it off the board with a tweezer :) I put it back in the right way after cleaning the pads with solder wick.

                                            Good luck and 73
                                            Steve...

                                            --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "bobbyin4land" <goins0497@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > Okay... Here's what I've found so far....
                                            >
                                            > 1) I did unsolder the hairpins on R61 and R62. They measured 1K.
                                            >
                                            > 2) After re-soldering them back in, I removed T5 (which is fed from the voltage divider. I still got the same voltage at the hairpin of R62.
                                            >
                                            > 3) After re-soldering T5 back in (what a pain!), I rechecked the solder joint of C70. It looked good.
                                            >
                                            > 4) The only other thing connected to the voltage divider is the op-amp stage. I do not plan to remove them, as they are SMD.
                                            >
                                            > Alan's response to my issue has merit. I did install these out of sequence.
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > Bobby in 4 Land
                                            >
                                            > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, Bill Maxwell <wrmaxwell@> wrote:
                                            > >
                                            > > Are we talking about common 5 or 10% tolerance resistors or much tighter
                                            > > 1% tolerance types. How many bands?
                                            > > On 24/06/2013 2:52 AM, Anthony Casorso wrote:
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > > 10k instead of 1k...brown and not red? Which did you mean? Either is
                                            > > > 10K/1k red and not orange or its 1k/100 brown and not red or I am
                                            > > > having (yet) another senior moment.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Tony
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                            > > > To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                                            > > > From: allgyer@
                                            > > > Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2013 11:55:53 +0000
                                            > > > Subject: [softrock40] Re: Ensemble RXTX Test Issue
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Bobby
                                            > > >
                                            > > > It "feels" like you have a 10K at R61 instead of 1K. Testing it in
                                            > > > circuit provides multiple parallel resistances and it would be best if
                                            > > > you just pull the hairpin loose and be sure. Alternatively, check that
                                            > > > last stripe under a magnifier and a bright light... be sure it is
                                            > > > brown and not red.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Good Luck!
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Warren Allgyer - 9V1TD
                                            > > >
                                            > > > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                                            > > > <mailto:softrock40%40yahoogroups.com>, "bobbyin4land" <goins0497@>
                                            > > > wrote:
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > In doing my tests at the completion of the RF I/O section, I started
                                            > > > testing R53, R54 and R62. The notes at WB5RVZ shows that the voltage
                                            > > > on R62 should be around 2.5 Volts. I get around 0.877 Volts using the
                                            > > > hairpin of R50 as a ground reference. (I also used the input power
                                            > > > negative terminal solder joint as a reference and got the same.)
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > R61 and R62 comprise a voltage divider with each being 1kÙ. When I
                                            > > > checked each (already soldered to the board) they were closer to
                                            > > > 0.85kÙ +/-. With both being nearly the same, they should have divided
                                            > > > the 5V input in half. They didn't.
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > Testing the voltage on the source side of R61, I get 5V. I also get
                                            > > > 5V between the source side of R61 and the ground side of R62. This is
                                            > > > what I expected.
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > Does anyone understand why my voltage between R61 and R62 is not 2.5V?
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > {Also, it would be nice for the construction notes to specify that
                                            > > > L2 needs to be wound in the opposite direction from L3.]
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > Bobby in 4 Land
                                            > > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > >
                                            >
                                          • Chris Wilson
                                            ... 24/06/2013 13:49 The proper tool looks nice! Shame it s size specific. This stuff I have is gold coloured and 200C rated. It was free, so I can t moan too
                                            Message 21 of 24 , Jun 24 5:52 AM
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              >
                                              > A solder pot is used - dip the lead in the molten pot of solder and
                                              > move it around for a few seconds. I usually first dip the wire into
                                              > liquid solder flux, but that's isn't strictly necessary.

                                              > Some more aggressive paint removers will also dissolve the enamel,
                                              > but you have to be careful not to splash it into places where you
                                              > don't want the insulation dissolved.

                                              > Also, some insulation is not "solder strippable" or "self-fluxing"
                                              > for example the 200 deg C rated insulation. In the USA, 200 deg C
                                              > magnet wire is usually gold colored.

                                              > Jack K8ZOA





                                              24/06/2013 13:49


                                              The proper tool looks nice! Shame it's size specific.


                                              This stuff I have is gold coloured and 200C rated. It was free, so I
                                              can't moan too much. No doubt excellent quality, but a pain to work
                                              with. Thanks Jack!

                                              I did some IMD tests with my Kenwood TS-590 at the
                                              weekend, interesting stuff, and I appreciate your help with correcting
                                              my procedure based on the Softrock tests. Don't worry, I didn't use
                                              quadrature for the 590!


                                              --
                                              Best Regards,
                                              Chris Wilson. 2E0ILY
                                            • Sid Boyce
                                              ... In the past I have used a match to turn the enamel to charcoal and used sandpaper to remove it all. Lately I use a Stanley knife and a piece of cardboard
                                              Message 22 of 24 , Jun 24 6:07 AM
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                On 24/06/13 12:44, Chris Wilson wrote:
                                                 



                                                >

                                                > ----- Original Message -----
                                                > Subject: Re: [softrock40] Re: Ensemble RXTX Test Issue - RESOLVED

                                                >>I have some
                                                >> "triple coated" wire here, and it's a bear to strip as heat doesn't do
                                                >> it, and the makers actually say this is not a viable method.

                                                > Chris

                                                > Here
                                                > <http://www.furukawa.co.jp/makisen/eng/product/texe_feature.htm> they seem to say solder.
                                                > "Soldered without any surface layer bared (stripped)."

                                                > Lots on the internet but heat seems to be a common answer.

                                                > 73 Alan G4ZFQ

                                                24/06/2013 12:40

                                                I may try a pencil butane torch to locally and quickly heat the triple
                                                enamel, or whatever the coatings are, then solder. Certainly the
                                                highest range my Pace iron controller goes to won't strip it properly.
                                                It will "bubble" it, but not remove it enough for the solder / flux to
                                                molecularly bond. The normal enamelled wire (like from RS, Maplins, or
                                                in the Softrock kits, strips and solders just fine with high soldering
                                                iron temps, albeit with acrid fumes). Thanks for the link Alan.

                                                --

                                                Best Regards, Chris Wilson.
                                                2E0ILY

                                                In the past I have used a match to turn the enamel to charcoal and used sandpaper to remove it all.
                                                Lately I use a Stanley knife and a piece of cardboard and just scrape the enamel off.
                                                After that I make sure it's properly tinned before soldering it into position.
                                                73 ... Sid.

                                                -- 
                                                Sid Boyce ... Hamradio License G3VBV, Licensed Private Pilot
                                                Emeritus IBM/Amdahl Mainframes and Sun/Fujitsu Servers Tech Support
                                                Senior Staff Specialist, Cricket Coach
                                                Microsoft Windows Free Zone - Linux used for all Computing Tasks
                                                
                                              • warrenallgyer
                                                As the admitted neanderthal of the group, I never bother to strip mine when using the wire that Tony supplies. I turn the soldering station up to 896F (no way
                                                Message 23 of 24 , Jun 24 6:13 AM
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                                                  As the admitted neanderthal of the group, I never bother to strip mine when using the wire that Tony supplies. I turn the soldering station up to 896F (no way to verify it but that is what the dial says.... may be like the "11" in "Spinal Tap") and heat the connection with solder until the smoke thins. After all the connections are made I make another circuit, reheating and applying a bit of fresh solder. I cannot remember the last bad connection.

                                                  Warren Allgyer - 9V1TD

                                                  > In the past I have used a match to turn the enamel to charcoal and used
                                                  > sandpaper to remove it all.
                                                  > Lately I use a Stanley knife and a piece of cardboard and just scrape
                                                  > the enamel off.
                                                  > After that I make sure it's properly tinned before soldering it into
                                                  > position.
                                                  > 73 ... Sid.
                                                  >
                                                  > --
                                                  > Sid Boyce ... Hamradio License G3VBV, Licensed Private Pilot
                                                  > Emeritus IBM/Amdahl Mainframes and Sun/Fujitsu Servers Tech Support
                                                  > Senior Staff Specialist, Cricket Coach
                                                  > Microsoft Windows Free Zone - Linux used for all Computing Tasks
                                                  >
                                                • Alan
                                                  ... Subject: Re: [softrock40] Re: Ensemble RXTX Test Issue - RESOLVED ... I ve seen a method recommended which sounds as if it might work. Drill a hole down
                                                  Message 24 of 24 , Jun 24 6:19 AM
                                                  • 0 Attachment
                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                    Subject: Re: [softrock40] Re: Ensemble RXTX Test Issue - RESOLVED


                                                    >A solder pot is used - dip the lead in the molten pot of solder and move
                                                    > it around for a few seconds. I usually first dip the wire into liquid
                                                    > solder flux, but that's isn't strictly necessary.
                                                    >

                                                    I've seen a method recommended which sounds as if it might work.
                                                    Drill a hole down the centre of an old solder iron bit and mount it vertically.
                                                    That makes a small solder pot.
                                                    It might be an idea to shield the iron to avoid accidental contact.

                                                    But Warren's technique suits me.

                                                    73 Alan G4ZFQ
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