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Re: [softrock40] Re: Spam

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  • Phil Frost
    ... By convention and according to the group webpage, softrock40-owner@yahoogroups.com is a good address to which to address this sort of complaint. I have to
    Message 1 of 15 , May 2, 2013
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      On 05/02/2013 09:36 PM, KQ8M wrote:
      > We have had a number of people offer to help including myself but
      > nothing has been said. I don't even have a clue who the moderator(s)
      > is(are).

      By convention and according to the group webpage,

      softrock40-owner@yahoogroups.com

      is a good address to which to address this sort of complaint. I have to
      agree with some others: the complaining about spam is as bad as the spam
      itself. Complaints would more appropriately and usefully addressed to
      the list owner, who alone has the power to address the issue. If the
      list owner is unresponsive and the problem continues, I suggest
      unsubscribing. Complaining to the over 9000 members of the list, who
      also don't like spam, and who also can't fix the problem, is not productive.
    • Shirley Márquez Dúlcey
      So far as I can tell, it s just about always been a case of one spam per subscriber; somebody joins the group, sends one bad message, and then they re out and
      Message 2 of 15 , May 3, 2013
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        So far as I can tell, it's just about always been a case of one spam per subscriber; somebody joins the group, sends one bad message, and then they're out and can't send another. There have been a couple of cases of people getting two or three sent very quickly before the moderators can act.

        This kind of drive-by spam is impossible to prevent unless we want to lock down the group - make it completely moderated or have new users be moderated for a significant number of posts. (One won't do the trick; the spammers would just send one innocuous post and then hit us with the spam on the second one.) I consider that a cure that is worse than the disease, as it substantially interferes with the free flow of information on the list.

        Some people seem to find spam so offensive that even one bad message is intolerable. I just don't happen to be one of them, and feel that the cost of the messages we WON'T see would be too high a price to pay.
      • dick williams
         Hi .   Surely the only answer to this spam from the group point of view is that all mail to the group is examined by the group owner/moderator before it is
        Message 3 of 15 , May 4, 2013
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           Hi .
           
          Surely the only answer to this spam from the group point of view is that all mail to the group is examined by the group owner/moderator before it is released.
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Saturday, May 04, 2013 1:12 AM
          Subject: [Bulk] Re: [softrock40] Re: Spam
          So far as I can tell, it's just about always been a case of one spam per subscriber; somebody joins the group, sends one bad message, and then they're out and can't send another. There have been a couple of cases of people getting two or three sent very quickly before the moderators can act.

          This kind of drive-by spam is impossible to prevent unless we want to lock down the group - make it completely moderated or have new users be moderated for a significant number of posts. (One won't do the trick; the spammers would just send one innocuous post and then hit us with the spam on the second one.) I consider that a cure that is worse than the disease, as it substantially interferes with the free flow of information on the list.

          Some people seem to find spam so offensive that even one bad message is intolerable. I just don't happen to be one of them, and feel that the cost of the messages we WON'T see would be too high a price to pay.
        • Shirley Márquez Dúlcey
          Yes, it s true that if we went to full moderation there would be no spam. But the flow of information would be throttled by the fact that incoming messages
          Message 4 of 15 , May 4, 2013
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            Yes, it's true that if we went to full moderation there would be no spam. But the flow of information would be throttled by the fact that incoming messages would be slowed down by moderation. Instead of people being able to respond quickly to a question, and to the replies to the question, discussions would crawl because of the need for approval of every message.

            Be careful what you wish for. You might get it.

          • dick williams
            Hi.   And therein lies the problem..   We all want freedom of speech...No censorship....etc...etc....and as such we must be prepared to accept that there
            Message 5 of 15 , May 4, 2013
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              Hi.
               
              And therein lies the problem..
               
              We all want freedom of speech...No censorship....etc...etc....and as such we must be prepared to accept that there are people out there whose whole purpose in life if to be an asshole.  In other words we either put up and shut up or go for the knee-jerk option of banning the whole thing.  Lets face it, the majority of this rubbish is instantly recognisable so just bin it... Dont open it... and certainly lets stop whingeing about it because that is probably the reaction the spammers are looking for.. 
              Personally, being a cynic, it wouldnt surprise me in the least if the stuff is put ou there deliberately hoping to incite us to "require someone to do something about it" and therefore use that as an excuse to control our freedoms even more........
               
              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: Saturday, May 04, 2013 11:32 AM
              Subject: Re: [softrock40] Re: Spam

               
              Yes, it's true that if we went to full moderation there would be no spam. But the flow of information would be throttled by the fact that incoming messages would be slowed down by moderation. Instead of people being able to respond quickly to a question, and to the replies to the question, discussions would crawl because of the need for approval of every message.

              Be careful what you wish for. You might get it.

            • Graham
              Short of full moderation, the moderator can if they so choose to set up the list such that approval is required to join. This would leave one level of
              Message 6 of 15 , May 4, 2013
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                Short of full moderation, the moderator can if they so choose to set up the list such that approval is required to join. This would leave one level of verification to keep the spammers out; if they can join without any approval they can join whatever, whenever, send their hand full of messages and the disappear never to be seen again.

                SPAM and it's impact is an interesting topic and as has been said, different individuals react differently to it. I use my [delete] key and just move on.


                cheers, graham ve3gtc



                On 13-05-04 12:12 AM, Shirley Márquez Dúlcey wrote:
                So far as I can tell, it's just about always been a case of one spam per subscriber; somebody joins the group, sends one bad message, and then they're out and can't send another. There have been a couple of cases of people getting two or three sent very quickly before the moderators can act.

                This kind of drive-by spam is impossible to prevent unless we want to lock down the group - make it completely moderated or have new users be moderated for a significant number of posts. (One won't do the trick; the spammers would just send one innocuous post and then hit us with the spam on the second one.) I consider that a cure that is worse than the disease, as it substantially interferes with the free flow of information on the list.

                Some people seem to find spam so offensive that even one bad message is intolerable. I just don't happen to be one of them, and feel that the cost of the messages we WON'T see would be too high a price to pay.


              • KQ8M
                This spam is from the same address over and over and nothing is being done about it. Ok great don t require moderation of every email, which I am against for
                Message 7 of 15 , May 4, 2013
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                  This spam is from the same address over and over and nothing is being done about it. Ok great don't require moderation of every email, which I am against for the reason previously stated, and no moderation is going to be about joining which I AM for, then at least kick these out as they happen.

                   

                  73,

                  Tim Herrick, KQ8M

                  Charter Member North Coast Contesters

                  kq8m@...

                   

                  AR-Cluster V6 kq8m.no-ip.org

                  User Ports: 23, 7373  with local skimmer, 7374 without local skimmer

                  Server Ports: V6 3607, V4 Active 3605, V4 Passive 3606

                   

                  From: softrock40@yahoogroups.com [mailto:softrock40@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Graham
                  Sent: Saturday, May 04, 2013 10:24 AM
                  To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [softrock40] Re: Spam

                   

                   

                  Short of full moderation, the moderator can if they so choose to set up the list such that approval is required to join. This would leave one level of verification to keep the spammers out; if they can join without any approval they can join whatever, whenever, send their hand full of messages and the disappear never to be seen again.

                  SPAM and it's impact is an interesting topic and as has been said, different individuals react differently to it. I use my [delete] key and just move on.


                  cheers, graham ve3gtc



                  On 13-05-04 12:12 AM, Shirley Márquez Dúlcey wrote:

                  So far as I can tell, it's just about always been a case of one spam per subscriber; somebody joins the group, sends one bad message, and then they're out and can't send another. There have been a couple of cases of people getting two or three sent very quickly before the moderators can act.

                   

                  This kind of drive-by spam is impossible to prevent unless we want to lock down the group - make it completely moderated or have new users be moderated for a significant number of posts. (One won't do the trick; the spammers would just send one innocuous post and then hit us with the spam on the second one.) I consider that a cure that is worse than the disease, as it substantially interferes with the free flow of information on the list.


                  Some people seem to find spam so offensive that even one bad message is intolerable. I just don't happen to be one of them, and feel that the cost of the messages we WON'T see would be too high a price to pay.

                   

                   

                • Bill Cromwell
                  ... Exactly, I have been in groups that couldn t tolerate some dirt from the real world. The whole world is made of dirt and every day you are gonna get some
                  Message 8 of 15 , May 4, 2013
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                    On Sat, 2013-05-04 at 06:32 -0400, Shirley Márquez Dúlcey wrote:
                    >
                    > Yes, it's true that if we went to full moderation there would be no
                    > spam. But the flow of information would be throttled by the fact that
                    > incoming messages would be slowed down by moderation. Instead of
                    > people being able to respond quickly to a question, and to the replies
                    > to the question, discussions would crawl because of the need for
                    > approval of every message.
                    >
                    >
                    > Be careful what you wish for. You might get it.

                    Exactly,

                    I have been in groups that couldn't tolerate some dirt from the real
                    world. The whole world is made of dirt and every day you are gonna get
                    some on you. Brush it off and keep on going. Those groups went to full
                    moderation and became useless to me. I know this group got by without me
                    somehow for a long time and could again if you have to. Go to a
                    moderated list and you will have to. I have noticed the owner has not
                    suggested going in that direction.

                    How about getting back to discussions about radio in general and Soft
                    rocks in particular with maybe a few side notes.

                    73,

                    Bill KU8H
                  • Zack Widup
                    I have been told that Yahoo accounts are particularly vulnerable for some reason. If you are actually logged into a Yahoo account, someone can hack into your
                    Message 9 of 15 , May 8, 2013
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                      I have been told that Yahoo accounts are particularly vulnerable for
                      some reason. If you are actually logged into a Yahoo account, someone
                      can hack into your computer and steal the cookie that was placed there
                      by Yahoo. At that point, they can take over your account. So I don't
                      even bother to read mail at my Yahoo address very often, nor do I read
                      Yahoogroups through the website. I prefer to get my Yahoogroup e-mail
                      at my gmail account. For some reason, gmail is more secure.

                      But I don't think that is what happened with our group. I think
                      spammers go looking for groups that are easy to get into by looking
                      over the Yahoogroups themselves, then join those groups and spam away
                      if the group isn't moderated. Then they seem to distribute the names
                      of those groups with access weaknesses to similar spammers. Our group
                      is likely to continue to get different spammers of the same type
                      hitting it. Other groups get hit by different types of spammers (like
                      the one I mentioned yesterday with the precious metals salesmen).

                      73, Zack W9SZ


                      On 5/8/13, Fred Moore <fred@...> wrote:
                      > Actually I have not seen the amount of spam increasing, we run a server
                      > with 76 web sites on it and thousands of email accounts, and dump around
                      > 20K spam emails per day before it hits anyones email account. Depending
                      > on what type filtering they are attempting to get around can change
                      > things.. If they find a way to get around an existing common use filter
                      > it will spike to 50K per day for a few days till that exploit is plugged
                      > up. It has been averaging around 20K/day for the last 2 years, not much
                      > change. That is just one server, now multiply by millions of servers
                      > worldwide.
                      >
                      > Now that I am locally filter and dumping all mail containing
                      > "mernalove2020" for this list my spam has stopped. Simply deleting this
                      > account by the moderator would have eliminated it for everyone, if the
                      > information from this group was not valuable to me I would have deleted
                      > it quite some time ago.
                      >
                      > The only spam related stuff I now get from the list is related to "Porn
                      > Spam" complaints. I am now adding a filter that will dump any mail
                      > notes that contain PORN in the subject line to further filter this
                      > group. And yes I know I contributed to the list traffic I will be
                      > eliminating.. Just want to communicate the true level of spam on the
                      > internet, 90% of all traffic we receive at the server is spam related.
                      > We all pay for that bandwidth..
                      >
                      > Many years ago these ass'es, started pay very talented people to deliver
                      > this crap to us.. huge amounts of spam originate from yahoo.com owned
                      > servers, hence the reason I and most server owners will not use them for
                      > anything.. if we could trap all mail originating from yahoo and dump
                      > 100% we would, the problem is that 50% of the mail they deliver is valid
                      > communication between people. In today's world Its just too easy to run
                      > a real list server without using yahoogroups. Our server is running
                      > around 50 groups using mailman software under linux..
                      >
                      > Regards. Fred/wd8kni@...
                      >
                      >
                      > On 5/8/13 5:59 AM, m0fmt wrote:
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> Hi all
                      >>
                      >> It seems to be a new wave of internet abuse going on. The "attacks" on
                      >> my mail account has gone up by a huge amount and is getting through my
                      >> very tied up address book only protection on my yahoo mail account.
                      >>
                      >> In time I think the internet e-mail service will become un useable. My
                      >> own view is that it is more to do with intergovernmental strife than
                      >> just commercial exploitation. They see it as a way to beggar my
                      >> neighbour though shear over loading networks with rubbish traffic.
                      >>
                      >> Maybe verified call sign only mail addresses are the way forward for
                      >> radio ham communication over the internet as we have a unique
                      >> identification?
                      >>
                      >> Best regards Petefmt
                      >>
                      >> --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                      >> <mailto:softrock40%40yahoogroups.com>, "The Silver Fox"
                      >> <alan.r.hill@...> wrote:
                      >> >
                      >> > Can't some stop the person from sending porn on this mail list. While I
                      >> > appreciate that the control may be slack it seems to me that the
                      >> same person
                      >> > has been sending stuff for weeks now.
                      >> > 73,
                      >> > Alan - W6ARH
                      >> >
                      >>
                      >>
                      >
                      >
                      > --
                      >
                      > Fred Moore
                      > Cell 321-217-8699
                      > email: fred@...
                      >
                      >
                    • Alan Hill
                      Another group at Yahoo moderates both membership and messages. We verify most members before allowing posts. 73, Alan - W6ARH
                      Message 10 of 15 , May 8, 2013
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                        Another group at Yahoo moderates both membership and messages.  We verify most members before allowing posts.
                        73,
                        Alan - W6ARH


                        On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 5:59 AM, Zack Widup <w9sz.zack@...> wrote:
                         

                        I have been told that Yahoo accounts are particularly vulnerable for
                        some reason. If you are actually logged into a Yahoo account, someone
                        can hack into your computer and steal the cookie that was placed there
                        by Yahoo. At that point, they can take over your account. So I don't
                        even bother to read mail at my Yahoo address very often, nor do I read
                        Yahoogroups through the website. I prefer to get my Yahoogroup e-mail
                        at my gmail account. For some reason, gmail is more secure.

                        But I don't think that is what happened with our group. I think
                        spammers go looking for groups that are easy to get into by looking
                        over the Yahoogroups themselves, then join those groups and spam away
                        if the group isn't moderated. Then they seem to distribute the names
                        of those groups with access weaknesses to similar spammers. Our group
                        is likely to continue to get different spammers of the same type
                        hitting it. Other groups get hit by different types of spammers (like
                        the one I mentioned yesterday with the precious metals salesmen).

                        73, Zack W9SZ

                        On 5/8/13, Fred Moore <fred@...> wrote:
                        > Actually I have not seen the amount of spam increasing, we run a server
                        > with 76 web sites on it and thousands of email accounts, and dump around
                        > 20K spam emails per day before it hits anyones email account. Depending
                        > on what type filtering they are attempting to get around can change
                        > things.. If they find a way to get around an existing common use filter
                        > it will spike to 50K per day for a few days till that exploit is plugged
                        > up. It has been averaging around 20K/day for the last 2 years, not much
                        > change. That is just one server, now multiply by millions of servers
                        > worldwide.
                        >
                        > Now that I am locally filter and dumping all mail containing
                        > "mernalove2020" for this list my spam has stopped. Simply deleting this
                        > account by the moderator would have eliminated it for everyone, if the
                        > information from this group was not valuable to me I would have deleted
                        > it quite some time ago.
                        >
                        > The only spam related stuff I now get from the list is related to "Porn
                        > Spam" complaints. I am now adding a filter that will dump any mail
                        > notes that contain PORN in the subject line to further filter this
                        > group. And yes I know I contributed to the list traffic I will be
                        > eliminating.. Just want to communicate the true level of spam on the
                        > internet, 90% of all traffic we receive at the server is spam related.
                        > We all pay for that bandwidth..
                        >
                        > Many years ago these ass'es, started pay very talented people to deliver
                        > this crap to us.. huge amounts of spam originate from yahoo.com owned
                        > servers, hence the reason I and most server owners will not use them for
                        > anything.. if we could trap all mail originating from yahoo and dump
                        > 100% we would, the problem is that 50% of the mail they deliver is valid
                        > communication between people. In today's world Its just too easy to run
                        > a real list server without using yahoogroups. Our server is running
                        > around 50 groups using mailman software under linux..
                        >
                        > Regards. Fred/wd8kni@...
                        >
                        >
                        > On 5/8/13 5:59 AM, m0fmt wrote:
                        >>
                        >>
                        >> Hi all
                        >>
                        >> It seems to be a new wave of internet abuse going on. The "attacks" on
                        >> my mail account has gone up by a huge amount and is getting through my
                        >> very tied up address book only protection on my yahoo mail account.
                        >>
                        >> In time I think the internet e-mail service will become un useable. My
                        >> own view is that it is more to do with intergovernmental strife than
                        >> just commercial exploitation. They see it as a way to beggar my
                        >> neighbour though shear over loading networks with rubbish traffic.
                        >>
                        >> Maybe verified call sign only mail addresses are the way forward for
                        >> radio ham communication over the internet as we have a unique
                        >> identification?
                        >>
                        >> Best regards Petefmt
                        >>
                        >> --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                        >> <mailto:softrock40%40yahoogroups.com>, "The Silver Fox"
                        >> <alan.r.hill@...> wrote:
                        >> >
                        >> > Can't some stop the person from sending porn on this mail list. While I
                        >> > appreciate that the control may be slack it seems to me that the
                        >> same person
                        >> > has been sending stuff for weeks now.
                        >> > 73,
                        >> > Alan - W6ARH
                        >> >
                        >>
                        >>
                        >
                        >
                        > --
                        >
                        > Fred Moore
                        > Cell 321-217-8699
                        > email: fred@...
                        >
                        >


                      • KF5ULI
                        good grief just happened again. out of my 100 yahoo groups this is the only one making spam. There has got to be a way of keeping these people from the group.
                        Message 11 of 15 , May 8, 2013
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                          good grief just happened again.  out of my 100 yahoo groups this is the only one making spam. There has got to be a way of keeping these people from the group. Moderation for first few emails, verified call signs etc.




                          On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 7:06 PM, Robert Lorenzini <bob@...> wrote:
                           

                          All this whining about spam is worse than the spam itself.

                          Bob




                          --
                          Angi
                          Amatuer Radio Operator
                          call sign: KF5ULI
                          Trained SKYWARN weather spotter
                          SpotterNet weather spotter
                          CoCoRaHS weather station AR-SR-6

                          FRBG Breeding Services, Specalizing in the problem and hard to breed does, In Arkansas and Missouri
                          AI services for Caprine, Cervid, Cattle, Sheep,
                          AI Classes in Caprine, In Ar and surrounding states

                           
                            
                        • dick williams
                          I joined this group in order to further my interest in amateur radio not to be bombarded with spam especially not from people whingeing about it (which is
                          Message 12 of 15 , May 8, 2013
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                            I joined this group in order to further my interest in amateur radio not to be bombarded with spam especially not from people whingeing about it (which is just as bad).
                             
                            Its obvious that the moderator can't or wont do anything about it (he is the only person that can) despite offers of assistance. Therefore why dont we all just ignore it and get back to sensible (softrock and amateur) subjects.

                            --- On Wed, 8/5/13, KF5ULI <angiharrover@...> wrote:

                            From: KF5ULI <angiharrover@...>
                            Subject: Re: [softrock40] Spam
                            To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                            Date: Wednesday, 8 May, 2013, 15:35

                             
                            good grief just happened again.  out of my 100 yahoo groups this is the only one making spam. There has got to be a way of keeping these people from the group. Moderation for first few emails, verified call signs etc.




                            On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 7:06 PM, Robert Lorenzini <bob@...> wrote:
                             
                            All this whining about spam is worse than the spam itself.

                            Bob



                            --
                            Angi
                            Amatuer Radio Operator
                            call sign: KF5ULI
                            Trained SKYWARN weather spotter
                            SpotterNet weather spotter
                            CoCoRaHS weather station AR-SR-6

                            FRBG Breeding Services, Specalizing in the problem and hard to breed does, In Arkansas and Missouri
                            AI services for Caprine, Cervid, Cattle, Sheep,
                            AI Classes in Caprine, In Ar and surrounding states

                             
                              
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