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Re: Ensemble RXTX audio levels

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  • serracin7388
    Warren, PA Out Audio IN ... 8 volts 2 volts 6 volts 1.5 volts 3.5 volts 1.0 volts Details, to be more accurate: PA out - 7Mhz, with diode
    Message 1 of 27 , Mar 27, 2013
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      Warren,

      PA Out Audio IN
      ---------------------
      8 volts 2 volts
      6 volts 1.5 volts
      3.5 volts 1.0 volts

      Details, to be more accurate:

      PA out - 7Mhz, with diode probe, and digital multimeter set on 20v dc range, assuming reading rms levels. (Ordinary multimeters do read exactly true rms, unless they have a d3edicated feature !)

      Audio IN- 1.5Khz, level read with digital multimeter set on 20v ac range. Input fed to both I & Q, no phase shift.

      We are feeding a steady , continuous tone, as against a continuously fall , rise and complexity of speech !.

      We must not forget tolerance, and simplicity of setup, without using serious professional test equipment.

      Paul



      --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "warrenallgyer" <allgyer@...> wrote:
      >
      > Paul
      >
      > 8 volts on your RF probe is +31dBm or about 1.3 watts. Very respectable and an indication that all is well with your build.
      >
      > 2.6 volts on your multimeter AC range looks suspect to me however. Normally the AC range indicates VRMS. 2.6 VRMS is equivalent to about 7.6 volts peak to peak and at this level you will likely be overdriving the transmit op amps. This is about 3 dB more than the normal output from a PC audio card. I would be interested to know what RF level you measure if you reduce the audio drive to 1 volt as indicated on your AC multimeter.
      >
      > Warren Allgyer - W8TOD
      >
      > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "serracin7388" <pawlud@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Warren,
      > >
      > > Thanks very very much for your much detailed reply. I will re-check my readings, but meantime, I discovered :
      > >
      > > My AD8307 based digital power meter has a built in protection, which restricts the unattenuated input to a maximum of +20dbm.
      > > When I hooked up my simple RF probe, my digital multimeter was showing between 8.7 to 8 volts across 40 to 20 meters, which is near to the 30dbm level.
      > > I used an external tone of 1.5Khz at the input, which measured 2.6 volts on my digital multimeter, set on the ac range. ( Multimeters can read audio frequencies voltages direcly, up to around 1.5Khz)
      > >
      > > Paul
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "warrenallgyer" <allgyer@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Paul
      > > >
      > > > I have made measurements of audio input versus RF output from my 30/20/17 RXTX. I measured it at three levels: Maximum audio/RF, 6 dB down, and 10 dB down. My measurements were made with a scope and since I don't understand your reference points I am expressing the values in multiple units in hopes that one selection will correspond to your readings.
      > > >
      > > > Full Power
      > > > 5 KHz Audio Input
      > > > 3.2 volts P-P
      > > > 1.1 volts RMS
      > > > +1.1 dBV
      > > > +3.3 dBu
      > > > RF Output
      > > > 27.6 volts P-P
      > > > 9.8 volts RMS
      > > > +33 dBm
      > > >
      > > > Approximately 6 dB down
      > > > 5 KHz Audio Input
      > > > 1.8 volts P-P
      > > > 0.6 volts RMS
      > > > -3.9 dBV
      > > > -1.7 dBu
      > > > RF Output
      > > > 16.4 volts P-P
      > > > 5.8 volts RMS
      > > > +28 dBm
      > > >
      > > > Approximately 10 dB down
      > > > 5 KHz Audio Input
      > > > 1.1 volts P-P
      > > > 0.4 volts RMS
      > > > -8.2 dBV
      > > > -6.0 dBu
      > > > RF Output
      > > > 10.2 volts P-P
      > > > 3.6 volts RMS
      > > > +24 dBm
      > > >
      > > > There is normally a fairly wide variance in power output from various builds of the RXTX due primarily to the selection of BS170s in the PA and bias controller of the output stage. At full audio drive levels above I have seen from +28 to +34 dBm out with various combinations of PA devices.
      > > >
      > > > Depending upon the units your audio generator is using, dBu or dBv, 0 dB is probably 2-4 dB lower than the max output from most PC audio cards. That would take my observed range down to +24 to +30 dBm, still higher than what you are measuring.
      > > >
      > > > I would re-solder every coil and transformer in the driver and PA stage. If your numbers are right then you seem to have a build defect somewhere along this chain.
      > > >
      > > > Warren Allgyer - W8TOD
      > > >
      > > > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "serracin7388" <pawlud@> wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > The Ensemble needs extensive modifications to work with the SDR2GO, because its audio processing is integrated with other sections of the Ensemble, such as the SI570 etc. I already had a discussion with the designer.
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > I have compared SDR and stand alone phasing rigs, using my ears!!!. The standalone, using ordinary analogue all band pass filters are quieter on the RX side. I do not need much bells and whistles- those will remove much of the fun and skills required as a radio operator !
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > My 40/30/20 Ensemble is working perfectly on receive, with full loudspeaker volume at 1uv signal injection from an Elekraft XG-2 signal generator. On tx, I am injecting a 0db audio signal from a pc based generator, but I am getting 16 to 20dbm, which I am not happy. I expect some 25 to 30 dbm.The LPF has been modified, as per recent modifications. PC based oscillators cannot go over the 0db level. I will have to use an ordinary tone oscillator, and push a higher level output, until clipping, monitoring with a scope.
      > > > >
      > > > > Paul
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > >
      >
    • serracin7388
      A correction: Ordinary multimeters do NOT read exactly true rms, unless they have a dedicated feature !) ... range, assuming reading rms levels. (Ordinary
      Message 2 of 27 , Mar 27, 2013
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        A correction:

        Ordinary multimeters do NOT read exactly true rms,
        unless they have a dedicated feature !)



        --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "serracin7388" <pawlud@...> wrote:
        >
        > Warren,
        >
        > PA Out Audio IN
        > ---------------------
        > 8 volts 2 volts
        > 6 volts 1.5 volts
        > 3.5 volts 1.0 volts
        >
        > Details, to be more accurate:
        >
        > PA out - 7Mhz, with diode probe, and digital multimeter set on 20v dc range, assuming reading rms levels. (Ordinary multimeters do read exactly true rms, unless they have a d3edicated feature !)
        >
        > Audio IN- 1.5Khz, level read with digital multimeter set on 20v ac range. Input fed to both I & Q, no phase shift.
        >
        > We are feeding a steady , continuous tone, as against a continuously fall , rise and complexity of speech !.
        >
        > We must not forget tolerance, and simplicity of setup, without using serious professional test equipment.
        >
        > Paul
        >
        >
        >
        > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "warrenallgyer" allgyer@ wrote:
        > >
        > > Paul
        > >
        > > 8 volts on your RF probe is +31dBm or about 1.3 watts. Very respectable and an indication that all is well with your build.
        > >
        > > 2.6 volts on your multimeter AC range looks suspect to me however. Normally the AC range indicates VRMS. 2.6 VRMS is equivalent to about 7.6 volts peak to peak and at this level you will likely be overdriving the transmit op amps. This is about 3 dB more than the normal output from a PC audio card. I would be interested to know what RF level you measure if you reduce the audio drive to 1 volt as indicated on your AC multimeter.
        > >
        > > Warren Allgyer - W8TOD
        > >
        > > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "serracin7388" <pawlud@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Warren,
        > > >
        > > > Thanks very very much for your much detailed reply. I will re-check my readings, but meantime, I discovered :
        > > >
        > > > My AD8307 based digital power meter has a built in protection, which restricts the unattenuated input to a maximum of +20dbm.
        > > > When I hooked up my simple RF probe, my digital multimeter was showing between 8.7 to 8 volts across 40 to 20 meters, which is near to the 30dbm level.
        > > > I used an external tone of 1.5Khz at the input, which measured 2.6 volts on my digital multimeter, set on the ac range. ( Multimeters can read audio frequencies voltages direcly, up to around 1.5Khz)
        > > >
        > > > Paul
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "warrenallgyer" <allgyer@> wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > Paul
        > > > >
        > > > > I have made measurements of audio input versus RF output from my 30/20/17 RXTX. I measured it at three levels: Maximum audio/RF, 6 dB down, and 10 dB down. My measurements were made with a scope and since I don't understand your reference points I am expressing the values in multiple units in hopes that one selection will correspond to your readings.
        > > > >
        > > > > Full Power
        > > > > 5 KHz Audio Input
        > > > > 3.2 volts P-P
        > > > > 1.1 volts RMS
        > > > > +1.1 dBV
        > > > > +3.3 dBu
        > > > > RF Output
        > > > > 27.6 volts P-P
        > > > > 9.8 volts RMS
        > > > > +33 dBm
        > > > >
        > > > > Approximately 6 dB down
        > > > > 5 KHz Audio Input
        > > > > 1.8 volts P-P
        > > > > 0.6 volts RMS
        > > > > -3.9 dBV
        > > > > -1.7 dBu
        > > > > RF Output
        > > > > 16.4 volts P-P
        > > > > 5.8 volts RMS
        > > > > +28 dBm
        > > > >
        > > > > Approximately 10 dB down
        > > > > 5 KHz Audio Input
        > > > > 1.1 volts P-P
        > > > > 0.4 volts RMS
        > > > > -8.2 dBV
        > > > > -6.0 dBu
        > > > > RF Output
        > > > > 10.2 volts P-P
        > > > > 3.6 volts RMS
        > > > > +24 dBm
        > > > >
        > > > > There is normally a fairly wide variance in power output from various builds of the RXTX due primarily to the selection of BS170s in the PA and bias controller of the output stage. At full audio drive levels above I have seen from +28 to +34 dBm out with various combinations of PA devices.
        > > > >
        > > > > Depending upon the units your audio generator is using, dBu or dBv, 0 dB is probably 2-4 dB lower than the max output from most PC audio cards. That would take my observed range down to +24 to +30 dBm, still higher than what you are measuring.
        > > > >
        > > > > I would re-solder every coil and transformer in the driver and PA stage. If your numbers are right then you seem to have a build defect somewhere along this chain.
        > > > >
        > > > > Warren Allgyer - W8TOD
        > > > >
        > > > > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "serracin7388" <pawlud@> wrote:
        > > > > >
        > > > > > The Ensemble needs extensive modifications to work with the SDR2GO, because its audio processing is integrated with other sections of the Ensemble, such as the SI570 etc. I already had a discussion with the designer.
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > > I have compared SDR and stand alone phasing rigs, using my ears!!!. The standalone, using ordinary analogue all band pass filters are quieter on the RX side. I do not need much bells and whistles- those will remove much of the fun and skills required as a radio operator !
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > > My 40/30/20 Ensemble is working perfectly on receive, with full loudspeaker volume at 1uv signal injection from an Elekraft XG-2 signal generator. On tx, I am injecting a 0db audio signal from a pc based generator, but I am getting 16 to 20dbm, which I am not happy. I expect some 25 to 30 dbm.The LPF has been modified, as per recent modifications. PC based oscillators cannot go over the 0db level. I will have to use an ordinary tone oscillator, and push a higher level output, until clipping, monitoring with a scope.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Paul
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > >
        >
      • serracin7388
        Sid, Thanks for the info. Looks interesting. I do not remember if I have matched the pa or not, but its worth replacing !
        Message 3 of 27 , Mar 27, 2013
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          Sid,

          Thanks for the info. Looks interesting. I do not remember if I have matched the pa or not, but its worth replacing !

          --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, Sid Boyce <sboyce@...> wrote:
          >
          > My only experience with that problem required replacing the 2 PA BS170's
          > as the audio level was ~2.0V and the power output similar to what you
          > are getting.
          > 73 ... Sid.
          >
          > On 27/03/13 02:52, serracin7388 wrote:
          > >
          > > The Ensemble needs extensive modifications to work with the SDR2GO,
          > > because its audio processing is integrated with other sections of the
          > > Ensemble, such as the SI570 etc. I already had a discussion with the
          > > designer.
          > >
          > > I have compared SDR and stand alone phasing rigs, using my ears!!!.
          > > The standalone, using ordinary analogue all band pass filters are
          > > quieter on the RX side. I do not need much bells and whistles- those
          > > will remove much of the fun and skills required as a radio operator !
          > >
          > > My 40/30/20 Ensemble is working perfectly on receive, with full
          > > loudspeaker volume at 1uv signal injection from an Elekraft XG-2
          > > signal generator. On tx, I am injecting a 0db audio signal from a pc
          > > based generator, but I am getting 16 to 20dbm, which I am not happy. I
          > > expect some 25 to 30 dbm.The LPF has been modified, as per recent
          > > modifications. PC based oscillators cannot go over the 0db level. I
          > > will have to use an ordinary tone oscillator, and push a higher level
          > > output, until clipping, monitoring with a scope.
          > >
          > > Paul
          > >
          > > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com
          > > <mailto:softrock40%40yahoogroups.com>, John Greusel <greusel@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > Â This sounds like it may work but I second Warren's question- to
          > > what end? This is tearing off the business end of the Softrock
          > > (including the software) and what have you got when done? The SDR2GO
          > > is relatively inexpensive and will save you an elaborate jumble on the
          > > workbench. If it's just for the sake of experimentation then perhaps
          > > it's a worthwhile goal and reason enough.Does the transceiver work now
          > > as designed?
          > > >
          > > > John
          > > > KC9OJV
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > ________________________________
          > > > From: serracin7388 <pawlud@>
          > > > To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com <mailto:softrock40%40yahoogroups.com>
          > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 2:11 PM
          > > > Subject: [softrock40] Re: Ensemble RXTX audio levels
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > Â
          > > > I intend to feed the existing SDA and SCL of the SI570 from an
          > > external pic controller, thus no need of a pc.
          > > >
          > > > As for the tx & rx audio processing, I have various options. Either
          > > use part of a disused phasing transceiver module ( G3TDZ Radcom July
          > > 1993) or, I have two extra modules as used on the R2pro.
          > > >
          > > > I fed a 0db tone from a soundcard oscillator, but apparently, this
          > > level is not enough, or the levels are wrong. In any case, I have
          > > tried some of the many scores of soundcard audio oscillators, and they
          > > are all limited to zero db out.
          > > >
          > > > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com
          > > <mailto:softrock40%40yahoogroups.com>, "John" <greusel@> wrote:
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > What Jasmine is telling you is that the audio cables in and out
          > > are not carrying audio signals. they're carrying complex, out of phase
          > > information that is converted to RF signals in the softrock (for
          > > transmit) and conversely the received signals aren't audio either and
          > > require decoding within the PC. There is one related system called
          > > SDR2GO by the Austin QRP group that handles the encoding/decoding
          > > without a PC so it's possible but not trivial.
          > > > >
          > > > > John
          > > > > KC9OJV
          > > > > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com
          > > <mailto:softrock40%40yahoogroups.com>, "serracin7388" <pawlud@> wrote:
          > > > > >
          > > > > > I intend to operate the Ensemble , without a PC. Need to know
          > > what will be the ideal audio level input at line out socket of the TX
          > > opamps for maximum ssb out at the pa ?
          > > > > >
          > > > >
          > > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          > --
          > Sid Boyce ... Hamradio License G3VBV, Licensed Private Pilot
          > Emeritus IBM/Amdahl Mainframes and Sun/Fujitsu Servers Tech Support
          > Senior Staff Specialist, Cricket Coach
          > Microsoft Windows Free Zone - Linux used for all Computing Tasks
          >
        • Sid Boyce
          Matching might be a good idea. I didn t match the replacements but I checked them when I removed them as part of Ed s QRO modification and they were perfectly
          Message 4 of 27 , Mar 27, 2013
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            Matching might be a good idea.
            I didn't match the replacements but I checked them when I removed them as part of Ed's QRO modification and they were perfectly matched so I can reuse them.
            73 ... SId.
             
            On 27/03/13 18:48, serracin7388 wrote:
             

            Sid,

            Thanks for the info. Looks interesting. I do not remember if I have matched the pa or not, but its worth replacing !

            --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, Sid Boyce <sboyce@...> wrote:
            >
            > My only experience with that problem required replacing the 2 PA BS170's
            > as the audio level was ~2.0V and the power output similar to what you
            > are getting.
            > 73 ... Sid.
            >
            > On 27/03/13 02:52, serracin7388 wrote:
            > >
            > > The Ensemble needs extensive modifications to work with the SDR2GO,
            > > because its audio processing is integrated with other sections of the
            > > Ensemble, such as the SI570 etc. I already had a discussion with the
            > > designer.
            > >
            > > I have compared SDR and stand alone phasing rigs, using my ears!!!.
            > > The standalone, using ordinary analogue all band pass filters are
            > > quieter on the RX side. I do not need much bells and whistles- those
            > > will remove much of the fun and skills required as a radio operator !
            > >
            > > My 40/30/20 Ensemble is working perfectly on receive, with full
            > > loudspeaker volume at 1uv signal injection from an Elekraft XG-2
            > > signal generator. On tx, I am injecting a 0db audio signal from a pc
            > > based generator, but I am getting 16 to 20dbm, which I am not happy. I
            > > expect some 25 to 30 dbm.The LPF has been modified, as per recent
            > > modifications. PC based oscillators cannot go over the 0db level. I
            > > will have to use an ordinary tone oscillator, and push a higher level
            > > output, until clipping, monitoring with a scope.
            > >
            > > Paul
            > >
            > > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com
            > > <mailto:softrock40%40yahoogroups.com>, John Greusel <greusel@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Â This sounds like it may work but I second Warren's question- to
            > > what end? This is tearing off the business end of the Softrock
            > > (including the software) and what have you got when done? The SDR2GO
            > > is relatively inexpensive and will save you an elaborate jumble on the
            > > workbench. If it's just for the sake of experimentation then perhaps
            > > it's a worthwhile goal and reason enough.Does the transceiver work now
            > > as designed?
            > > >
            > > > John
            > > > KC9OJV
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > ________________________________
            > > > From: serracin7388 <pawlud@>
            > > > To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com <mailto:softrock40%40yahoogroups.com>
            > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 2:11 PM
            > > > Subject: [softrock40] Re: Ensemble RXTX audio levels
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Â
            > > > I intend to feed the existing SDA and SCL of the SI570 from an
            > > external pic controller, thus no need of a pc.
            > > >
            > > > As for the tx & rx audio processing, I have various options. Either
            > > use part of a disused phasing transceiver module ( G3TDZ Radcom July
            > > 1993) or, I have two extra modules as used on the R2pro.
            > > >
            > > > I fed a 0db tone from a soundcard oscillator, but apparently, this
            > > level is not enough, or the levels are wrong. In any case, I have
            > > tried some of the many scores of soundcard audio oscillators, and they
            > > are all limited to zero db out.
            > > >
            > > > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com
            > > <mailto:softrock40%40yahoogroups.com>, "John" <greusel@> wrote:
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > What Jasmine is telling you is that the audio cables in and out
            > > are not carrying audio signals. they're carrying complex, out of phase
            > > information that is converted to RF signals in the softrock (for
            > > transmit) and conversely the received signals aren't audio either and
            > > require decoding within the PC. There is one related system called
            > > SDR2GO by the Austin QRP group that handles the encoding/decoding
            > > without a PC so it's possible but not trivial.
            > > > >
            > > > > John
            > > > > KC9OJV
            > > > > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com
            > > <mailto:softrock40%40yahoogroups.com>, "serracin7388" <pawlud@> wrote:
            > > > > >
            > > > > > I intend to operate the Ensemble , without a PC. Need to know
            > > what will be the ideal audio level input at line out socket of the TX
            > > opamps for maximum ssb out at the pa ?
            > > > > >
            > > > >
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            > --
            > Sid Boyce ... Hamradio License G3VBV, Licensed Private Pilot
            > Emeritus IBM/Amdahl Mainframes and Sun/Fujitsu Servers Tech Support
            > Senior Staff Specialist, Cricket Coach
            > Microsoft Windows Free Zone - Linux used for all Computing Tasks
            >



            -- 
            Sid Boyce ... Hamradio License G3VBV, Licensed Private Pilot
            Emeritus IBM/Amdahl Mainframes and Sun/Fujitsu Servers Tech Support
            Senior Staff Specialist, Cricket Coach
            Microsoft Windows Free Zone - Linux used for all Computing Tasks
            
          • serracin7388
            The problem is that my multimeter shows only two decimal figures after the point, so unable to get a proper reading for exact matching ! Paul
            Message 5 of 27 , Mar 27, 2013
            • 0 Attachment
              The problem is that my multimeter shows only two decimal figures after the point, so unable to get a proper reading for exact matching !

              Paul

              --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, Sid Boyce <sboyce@...> wrote:
              >
              > Matching might be a good idea.
              > I didn't match the replacements but I checked them when I removed them
              > as part of Ed's QRO modification and they were perfectly matched so I
              > can reuse them.
              > 73 ... SId.
              >
              > On 27/03/13 18:48, serracin7388 wrote:
              > >
              > > Sid,
              > >
              > > Thanks for the info. Looks interesting. I do not remember if I have
              > > matched the pa or not, but its worth replacing !
              > >
              > > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com
              > > <mailto:softrock40%40yahoogroups.com>, Sid Boyce <sboyce@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > My only experience with that problem required replacing the 2 PA
              > > BS170's
              > > > as the audio level was ~2.0V and the power output similar to what you
              > > > are getting.
              > > > 73 ... Sid.
              > > >
              > > > On 27/03/13 02:52, serracin7388 wrote:
              > > > >
              > > > > The Ensemble needs extensive modifications to work with the SDR2GO,
              > > > > because its audio processing is integrated with other sections of the
              > > > > Ensemble, such as the SI570 etc. I already had a discussion with the
              > > > > designer.
              > > > >
              > > > > I have compared SDR and stand alone phasing rigs, using my ears!!!.
              > > > > The standalone, using ordinary analogue all band pass filters are
              > > > > quieter on the RX side. I do not need much bells and whistles- those
              > > > > will remove much of the fun and skills required as a radio operator !
              > > > >
              > > > > My 40/30/20 Ensemble is working perfectly on receive, with full
              > > > > loudspeaker volume at 1uv signal injection from an Elekraft XG-2
              > > > > signal generator. On tx, I am injecting a 0db audio signal from a pc
              > > > > based generator, but I am getting 16 to 20dbm, which I am not
              > > happy. I
              > > > > expect some 25 to 30 dbm.The LPF has been modified, as per recent
              > > > > modifications. PC based oscillators cannot go over the 0db level. I
              > > > > will have to use an ordinary tone oscillator, and push a higher level
              > > > > output, until clipping, monitoring with a scope.
              > > > >
              > > > > Paul
              > > > >
              > > > > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com
              > > <mailto:softrock40%40yahoogroups.com>
              > > > > <mailto:softrock40%40yahoogroups.com>, John Greusel <greusel@> wrote:
              > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > > > Â This sounds like it may work but I second Warren's question- to
              > > > > what end? This is tearing off the business end of the Softrock
              > > > > (including the software) and what have you got when done? The SDR2GO
              > > > > is relatively inexpensive and will save you an elaborate jumble on
              > > the
              > > > > workbench. If it's just for the sake of experimentation then perhaps
              > > > > it's a worthwhile goal and reason enough.Does the transceiver work
              > > now
              > > > > as designed?
              > > > > >
              > > > > > John
              > > > > > KC9OJV
              > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > > > ________________________________
              > > > > > From: serracin7388 <pawlud@>
              > > > > > To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
              > > <mailto:softrock40%40yahoogroups.com>
              > > <mailto:softrock40%40yahoogroups.com>
              > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 2:11 PM
              > > > > > Subject: [softrock40] Re: Ensemble RXTX audio levels
              > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > > > Â
              > > > > > I intend to feed the existing SDA and SCL of the SI570 from an
              > > > > external pic controller, thus no need of a pc.
              > > > > >
              > > > > > As for the tx & rx audio processing, I have various options. Either
              > > > > use part of a disused phasing transceiver module ( G3TDZ Radcom July
              > > > > 1993) or, I have two extra modules as used on the R2pro.
              > > > > >
              > > > > > I fed a 0db tone from a soundcard oscillator, but apparently, this
              > > > > level is not enough, or the levels are wrong. In any case, I have
              > > > > tried some of the many scores of soundcard audio oscillators, and
              > > they
              > > > > are all limited to zero db out.
              > > > > >
              > > > > > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com
              > > <mailto:softrock40%40yahoogroups.com>
              > > > > <mailto:softrock40%40yahoogroups.com>, "John" <greusel@> wrote:
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > What Jasmine is telling you is that the audio cables in and out
              > > > > are not carrying audio signals. they're carrying complex, out of
              > > phase
              > > > > information that is converted to RF signals in the softrock (for
              > > > > transmit) and conversely the received signals aren't audio either and
              > > > > require decoding within the PC. There is one related system called
              > > > > SDR2GO by the Austin QRP group that handles the encoding/decoding
              > > > > without a PC so it's possible but not trivial.
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > John
              > > > > > > KC9OJV
              > > > > > > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com
              > > <mailto:softrock40%40yahoogroups.com>
              > > > > <mailto:softrock40%40yahoogroups.com>, "serracin7388" <pawlud@> wrote:
              > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > I intend to operate the Ensemble , without a PC. Need to know
              > > > > what will be the ideal audio level input at line out socket of the TX
              > > > > opamps for maximum ssb out at the pa ?
              > > > > > > >
              > > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > --
              > > > Sid Boyce ... Hamradio License G3VBV, Licensed Private Pilot
              > > > Emeritus IBM/Amdahl Mainframes and Sun/Fujitsu Servers Tech Support
              > > > Senior Staff Specialist, Cricket Coach
              > > > Microsoft Windows Free Zone - Linux used for all Computing Tasks
              > > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              > --
              > Sid Boyce ... Hamradio License G3VBV, Licensed Private Pilot
              > Emeritus IBM/Amdahl Mainframes and Sun/Fujitsu Servers Tech Support
              > Senior Staff Specialist, Cricket Coach
              > Microsoft Windows Free Zone - Linux used for all Computing Tasks
              >
            • John Williams
              Sid, Please share your Ed s QRO progress! I am thinking of a perfect fldigi transceiver. Concept is to start with a Peaberry, winding toroids for 20/17/15
              Message 6 of 27 , Mar 27, 2013
              • 0 Attachment
                Sid,

                Please share your "Ed's QRO" progress! I am thinking of a "perfect fldigi" transceiver. Concept is to start with a Peaberry, winding toroids for 20/17/15 and doing the QRO mods to give me 8-10 watts native on the bands that I love... An independent data point on the mod would be helpful.

                John - ke5ssh
                On 3/27/2013 3:52 PM, Sid Boyce wrote:
                 

                Matching might be a good idea.
                I didn't match the replacements but I checked them when I removed them as part of Ed's QRO modification and they were perfectly matched so I can reuse them.
                73 ... SId.
                 
                On 27/03/13 18:48, serracin7388 wrote:
                 

                Sid,

                Thanks for the info. Looks interesting. I do not remember if I have matched the pa or not, but its worth replacing !

                --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, Sid Boyce <sboyce@...> wrote:
                >
                > My only experience with that problem required replacing the 2 PA BS170's
                > as the audio level was ~2.0V and the power output similar to what you
                > are getting.
                > 73 ... Sid.
                >
                > On 27/03/13 02:52, serracin7388 wrote:
                > >
                > > The Ensemble needs extensive modifications to work with the SDR2GO,
                > > because its audio processing is integrated with other sections of the
                > > Ensemble, such as the SI570 etc. I already had a discussion with the
                > > designer.
                > >
                > > I have compared SDR and stand alone phasing rigs, using my ears!!!.
                > > The standalone, using ordinary analogue all band pass filters are
                > > quieter on the RX side. I do not need much bells and whistles- those
                > > will remove much of the fun and skills required as a radio operator !
                > >
                > > My 40/30/20 Ensemble is working perfectly on receive, with full
                > > loudspeaker volume at 1uv signal injection from an Elekraft XG-2
                > > signal generator. On tx, I am injecting a 0db audio signal from a pc
                > > based generator, but I am getting 16 to 20dbm, which I am not happy. I
                > > expect some 25 to 30 dbm.The LPF has been modified, as per recent
                > > modifications. PC based oscillators cannot go over the 0db level. I
                > > will have to use an ordinary tone oscillator, and push a higher level
                > > output, until clipping, monitoring with a scope.
                > >
                > > Paul
                > >
                > > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                > > <mailto:softrock40%40yahoogroups.com>, John Greusel <greusel@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > Â This sounds like it may work but I second Warren's question- to
                > > what end? This is tearing off the business end of the Softrock
                > > (including the software) and what have you got when done? The SDR2GO
                > > is relatively inexpensive and will save you an elaborate jumble on the
                > > workbench. If it's just for the sake of experimentation then perhaps
                > > it's a worthwhile goal and reason enough.Does the transceiver work now
                > > as designed?
                > > >
                > > > John
                > > > KC9OJV
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > ________________________________
                > > > From: serracin7388 <pawlud@>
                > > > To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com <mailto:softrock40%40yahoogroups.com>
                > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 2:11 PM
                > > > Subject: [softrock40] Re: Ensemble RXTX audio levels
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > Â
                > > > I intend to feed the existing SDA and SCL of the SI570 from an
                > > external pic controller, thus no need of a pc.
                > > >
                > > > As for the tx & rx audio processing, I have various options. Either
                > > use part of a disused phasing transceiver module ( G3TDZ Radcom July
                > > 1993) or, I have two extra modules as used on the R2pro.
                > > >
                > > > I fed a 0db tone from a soundcard oscillator, but apparently, this
                > > level is not enough, or the levels are wrong. In any case, I have
                > > tried some of the many scores of soundcard audio oscillators, and they
                > > are all limited to zero db out.
                > > >
                > > > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                > > <mailto:softrock40%40yahoogroups.com>, "John" <greusel@> wrote:
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > What Jasmine is telling you is that the audio cables in and out
                > > are not carrying audio signals. they're carrying complex, out of phase
                > > information that is converted to RF signals in the softrock (for
                > > transmit) and conversely the received signals aren't audio either and
                > > require decoding within the PC. There is one related system called
                > > SDR2GO by the Austin QRP group that handles the encoding/decoding
                > > without a PC so it's possible but not trivial.
                > > > >
                > > > > John
                > > > > KC9OJV
                > > > > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                > > <mailto:softrock40%40yahoogroups.com>, "serracin7388" <pawlud@> wrote:
                > > > > >
                > > > > > I intend to operate the Ensemble , without a PC. Need to know
                > > what will be the ideal audio level input at line out socket of the TX
                > > opamps for maximum ssb out at the pa ?
                > > > > >
                > > > >
                > > >
                > >
                > >
                >
                >
                > --
                > Sid Boyce ... Hamradio License G3VBV, Licensed Private Pilot
                > Emeritus IBM/Amdahl Mainframes and Sun/Fujitsu Servers Tech Support
                > Senior Staff Specialist, Cricket Coach
                > Microsoft Windows Free Zone - Linux used for all Computing Tasks
                >



                -- 
                Sid Boyce ... Hamradio License G3VBV, Licensed Private Pilot
                Emeritus IBM/Amdahl Mainframes and Sun/Fujitsu Servers Tech Support
                Senior Staff Specialist, Cricket Coach
                Microsoft Windows Free Zone - Linux used for all Computing Tasks
                

                -- 
                
                John Williams
                
                KE5SSH - ham since 2007
                WQKA523 - GMRS for family use on the farm
                
              • Sid Boyce
                Hi John, I only got as far as making the copper bracket and removing the FET s, then other things took over -- got the HiQSDR working on TX with a temporary
                Message 7 of 27 , Mar 27, 2013
                • 0 Attachment
                  Hi John,
                  I only got as far as making the copper bracket and removing the FET's, then other things took over -- got the HiQSDR working on TX with a temporary fix, then Hermes arrived and I am currently working on getting the UHFSDR up to 1W output.

                  I hope to get some more work on the QRO mod done over the weekend.
                  73 ... Sid.

                  On 27/03/13 23:05, John Williams wrote:
                   

                  Sid,

                  Please share your "Ed's QRO" progress! I am thinking of a "perfect fldigi" transceiver. Concept is to start with a Peaberry, winding toroids for 20/17/15 and doing the QRO mods to give me 8-10 watts native on the bands that I love... An independent data point on the mod would be helpful.

                  John - ke5ssh

                  On 3/27/2013 3:52 PM, Sid Boyce wrote:
                   

                  Matching might be a good idea.
                  I didn't match the replacements but I checked them when I removed them as part of Ed's QRO modification and they were perfectly matched so I can reuse them.
                  73 ... SId.
                   
                  On 27/03/13 18:48, serracin7388 wrote:
                   

                  Sid,

                  Thanks for the info. Looks interesting. I do not remember if I have matched the pa or not, but its worth replacing !

                  --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, Sid Boyce <sboyce@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > My only experience with that problem required replacing the 2 PA BS170's
                  > as the audio level was ~2.0V and the power output similar to what you
                  > are getting.
                  > 73 ... Sid.
                  >
                  > On 27/03/13 02:52, serracin7388 wrote:
                  > >
                  > > The Ensemble needs extensive modifications to work with the SDR2GO,
                  > > because its audio processing is integrated with other sections of the
                  > > Ensemble, such as the SI570 etc. I already had a discussion with the
                  > > designer.
                  > >
                  > > I have compared SDR and stand alone phasing rigs, using my ears!!!.
                  > > The standalone, using ordinary analogue all band pass filters are
                  > > quieter on the RX side. I do not need much bells and whistles- those
                  > > will remove much of the fun and skills required as a radio operator !
                  > >
                  > > My 40/30/20 Ensemble is working perfectly on receive, with full
                  > > loudspeaker volume at 1uv signal injection from an Elekraft XG-2
                  > > signal generator. On tx, I am injecting a 0db audio signal from a pc
                  > > based generator, but I am getting 16 to 20dbm, which I am not happy. I
                  > > expect some 25 to 30 dbm.The LPF has been modified, as per recent
                  > > modifications. PC based oscillators cannot go over the 0db level. I
                  > > will have to use an ordinary tone oscillator, and push a higher level
                  > > output, until clipping, monitoring with a scope.
                  > >
                  > > Paul
                  > >
                  > > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                  > > <mailto:softrock40%40yahoogroups.com>, John Greusel <greusel@> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > Â This sounds like it may work but I second Warren's question- to
                  > > what end? This is tearing off the business end of the Softrock
                  > > (including the software) and what have you got when done? The SDR2GO
                  > > is relatively inexpensive and will save you an elaborate jumble on the
                  > > workbench. If it's just for the sake of experimentation then perhaps
                  > > it's a worthwhile goal and reason enough.Does the transceiver work now
                  > > as designed?
                  > > >
                  > > > John
                  > > > KC9OJV
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > ________________________________
                  > > > From: serracin7388 <pawlud@>
                  > > > To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com <mailto:softrock40%40yahoogroups.com>
                  > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 2:11 PM
                  > > > Subject: [softrock40] Re: Ensemble RXTX audio levels
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > Â
                  > > > I intend to feed the existing SDA and SCL of the SI570 from an
                  > > external pic controller, thus no need of a pc.
                  > > >
                  > > > As for the tx & rx audio processing, I have various options. Either
                  > > use part of a disused phasing transceiver module ( G3TDZ Radcom July
                  > > 1993) or, I have two extra modules as used on the R2pro.
                  > > >
                  > > > I fed a 0db tone from a soundcard oscillator, but apparently, this
                  > > level is not enough, or the levels are wrong. In any case, I have
                  > > tried some of the many scores of soundcard audio oscillators, and they
                  > > are all limited to zero db out.
                  > > >
                  > > > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                  > > <mailto:softrock40%40yahoogroups.com>, "John" <greusel@> wrote:
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > What Jasmine is telling you is that the audio cables in and out
                  > > are not carrying audio signals. they're carrying complex, out of phase
                  > > information that is converted to RF signals in the softrock (for
                  > > transmit) and conversely the received signals aren't audio either and
                  > > require decoding within the PC. There is one related system called
                  > > SDR2GO by the Austin QRP group that handles the encoding/decoding
                  > > without a PC so it's possible but not trivial.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > John
                  > > > > KC9OJV
                  > > > > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                  > > <mailto:softrock40%40yahoogroups.com>, "serracin7388" <pawlud@> wrote:
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > I intend to operate the Ensemble , without a PC. Need to know
                  > > what will be the ideal audio level input at line out socket of the TX
                  > > opamps for maximum ssb out at the pa ?
                  > > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  > --
                  > Sid Boyce ... Hamradio License G3VBV, Licensed Private Pilot
                  > Emeritus IBM/Amdahl Mainframes and Sun/Fujitsu Servers Tech Support
                  > Senior Staff Specialist, Cricket Coach
                  > Microsoft Windows Free Zone - Linux used for all Computing Tasks
                  >




                  -- 
                  
                  John Williams
                  
                  KE5SSH - ham since 2007
                  WQKA523 - GMRS for family use on the farm
                  


                  -- 
                  Sid Boyce ... Hamradio License G3VBV, Licensed Private Pilot
                  Emeritus IBM/Amdahl Mainframes and Sun/Fujitsu Servers Tech Support
                  Senior Staff Specialist, Cricket Coach
                  Microsoft Windows Free Zone - Linux used for all Computing Tasks
                  
                • warrenallgyer
                  Paul If matching is important... and my personal experience is it makes no difference whatsoever in the performance of the radio at normal power.... then two
                  Message 8 of 27 , Mar 27, 2013
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Paul

                    If matching is important... and my personal experience is it makes no difference whatsoever in the performance of the radio at normal power.... then two decimal digit accuracy is more than enough for a proper match.

                    Warren Allgyer - W8TOD

                    --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "serracin7388" <pawlud@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > The problem is that my multimeter shows only two decimal figures after the point, so unable to get a proper reading for exact matching !
                    >
                    > Paul
                    >
                    > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, Sid Boyce <sboyce@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Matching might be a good idea.
                    > > I didn't match the replacements but I checked them when I removed them
                    > > as part of Ed's QRO modification and they were perfectly matched so I
                    > > can reuse them.
                    > > 73 ... SId.
                    > >
                    > > On 27/03/13 18:48, serracin7388 wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > Sid,
                    > > >
                    > > > Thanks for the info. Looks interesting. I do not remember if I have
                    > > > matched the pa or not, but its worth replacing !
                    > > >
                    > > > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                    > > > <mailto:softrock40%40yahoogroups.com>, Sid Boyce <sboyce@> wrote:
                    > > > >
                    > > > > My only experience with that problem required replacing the 2 PA
                    > > > BS170's
                    > > > > as the audio level was ~2.0V and the power output similar to what you
                    > > > > are getting.
                    > > > > 73 ... Sid.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > On 27/03/13 02:52, serracin7388 wrote:
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > The Ensemble needs extensive modifications to work with the SDR2GO,
                    > > > > > because its audio processing is integrated with other sections of the
                    > > > > > Ensemble, such as the SI570 etc. I already had a discussion with the
                    > > > > > designer.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > I have compared SDR and stand alone phasing rigs, using my ears!!!.
                    > > > > > The standalone, using ordinary analogue all band pass filters are
                    > > > > > quieter on the RX side. I do not need much bells and whistles- those
                    > > > > > will remove much of the fun and skills required as a radio operator !
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > My 40/30/20 Ensemble is working perfectly on receive, with full
                    > > > > > loudspeaker volume at 1uv signal injection from an Elekraft XG-2
                    > > > > > signal generator. On tx, I am injecting a 0db audio signal from a pc
                    > > > > > based generator, but I am getting 16 to 20dbm, which I am not
                    > > > happy. I
                    > > > > > expect some 25 to 30 dbm.The LPF has been modified, as per recent
                    > > > > > modifications. PC based oscillators cannot go over the 0db level. I
                    > > > > > will have to use an ordinary tone oscillator, and push a higher level
                    > > > > > output, until clipping, monitoring with a scope.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Paul
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                    > > > <mailto:softrock40%40yahoogroups.com>
                    > > > > > <mailto:softrock40%40yahoogroups.com>, John Greusel <greusel@> wrote:
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > Â This sounds like it may work but I second Warren's question- to
                    > > > > > what end? This is tearing off the business end of the Softrock
                    > > > > > (including the software) and what have you got when done? The SDR2GO
                    > > > > > is relatively inexpensive and will save you an elaborate jumble on
                    > > > the
                    > > > > > workbench. If it's just for the sake of experimentation then perhaps
                    > > > > > it's a worthwhile goal and reason enough.Does the transceiver work
                    > > > now
                    > > > > > as designed?
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > John
                    > > > > > > KC9OJV
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > ________________________________
                    > > > > > > From: serracin7388 <pawlud@>
                    > > > > > > To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                    > > > <mailto:softrock40%40yahoogroups.com>
                    > > > <mailto:softrock40%40yahoogroups.com>
                    > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 2:11 PM
                    > > > > > > Subject: [softrock40] Re: Ensemble RXTX audio levels
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > Â
                    > > > > > > I intend to feed the existing SDA and SCL of the SI570 from an
                    > > > > > external pic controller, thus no need of a pc.
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > As for the tx & rx audio processing, I have various options. Either
                    > > > > > use part of a disused phasing transceiver module ( G3TDZ Radcom July
                    > > > > > 1993) or, I have two extra modules as used on the R2pro.
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > I fed a 0db tone from a soundcard oscillator, but apparently, this
                    > > > > > level is not enough, or the levels are wrong. In any case, I have
                    > > > > > tried some of the many scores of soundcard audio oscillators, and
                    > > > they
                    > > > > > are all limited to zero db out.
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                    > > > <mailto:softrock40%40yahoogroups.com>
                    > > > > > <mailto:softrock40%40yahoogroups.com>, "John" <greusel@> wrote:
                    > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > What Jasmine is telling you is that the audio cables in and out
                    > > > > > are not carrying audio signals. they're carrying complex, out of
                    > > > phase
                    > > > > > information that is converted to RF signals in the softrock (for
                    > > > > > transmit) and conversely the received signals aren't audio either and
                    > > > > > require decoding within the PC. There is one related system called
                    > > > > > SDR2GO by the Austin QRP group that handles the encoding/decoding
                    > > > > > without a PC so it's possible but not trivial.
                    > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > John
                    > > > > > > > KC9OJV
                    > > > > > > > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                    > > > <mailto:softrock40%40yahoogroups.com>
                    > > > > > <mailto:softrock40%40yahoogroups.com>, "serracin7388" <pawlud@> wrote:
                    > > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > > I intend to operate the Ensemble , without a PC. Need to know
                    > > > > > what will be the ideal audio level input at line out socket of the TX
                    > > > > > opamps for maximum ssb out at the pa ?
                    > > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > --
                    > > > > Sid Boyce ... Hamradio License G3VBV, Licensed Private Pilot
                    > > > > Emeritus IBM/Amdahl Mainframes and Sun/Fujitsu Servers Tech Support
                    > > > > Senior Staff Specialist, Cricket Coach
                    > > > > Microsoft Windows Free Zone - Linux used for all Computing Tasks
                    > > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > --
                    > > Sid Boyce ... Hamradio License G3VBV, Licensed Private Pilot
                    > > Emeritus IBM/Amdahl Mainframes and Sun/Fujitsu Servers Tech Support
                    > > Senior Staff Specialist, Cricket Coach
                    > > Microsoft Windows Free Zone - Linux used for all Computing Tasks
                    > >
                    >
                  • serracin7388
                    I have checked the existing fets and they are matched up to two decimal points. What is worth mentioning is that there is no mention in the notes ( or I have
                    Message 9 of 27 , Mar 28, 2013
                    • 0 Attachment
                      I have checked the existing fets and they are matched up to two decimal points.

                      What is worth mentioning is that there is no mention in the notes ( or I have not seen it ) of the voltages at the base & emitter of Q6, the 2N222 driver. Would it be possible to check it out for me please, on your rig, on both rx &tx ?

                      However, it does mention that the audio input should be 2.4 pp, meaning 0.8 volts rms for full RF out !

                      Paul



                      --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "warrenallgyer" <allgyer@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Paul
                      >
                      > If matching is important... and my personal experience is it makes no difference whatsoever in the performance of the radio at normal power.... then two decimal digit accuracy is more than enough for a proper match.
                      >
                      > Warren Allgyer - W8TOD
                      >
                      > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "serracin7388" <pawlud@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > The problem is that my multimeter shows only two decimal figures after the point, so unable to get a proper reading for exact matching !
                      > >
                      > > Paul
                      > >
                      > > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, Sid Boyce <sboyce@> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > Matching might be a good idea.
                      > > > I didn't match the replacements but I checked them when I removed them
                      > > > as part of Ed's QRO modification and they were perfectly matched so I
                      > > > can reuse them.
                      > > > 73 ... SId.
                      > > >
                      > > > On 27/03/13 18:48, serracin7388 wrote:
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Sid,
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Thanks for the info. Looks interesting. I do not remember if I have
                      > > > > matched the pa or not, but its worth replacing !
                      > > > >
                      > > > > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                      > > > > <mailto:softrock40%40yahoogroups.com>, Sid Boyce <sboyce@> wrote:
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > My only experience with that problem required replacing the 2 PA
                      > > > > BS170's
                      > > > > > as the audio level was ~2.0V and the power output similar to what you
                      > > > > > are getting.
                      > > > > > 73 ... Sid.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > On 27/03/13 02:52, serracin7388 wrote:
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > The Ensemble needs extensive modifications to work with the SDR2GO,
                      > > > > > > because its audio processing is integrated with other sections of the
                      > > > > > > Ensemble, such as the SI570 etc. I already had a discussion with the
                      > > > > > > designer.
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > I have compared SDR and stand alone phasing rigs, using my ears!!!.
                      > > > > > > The standalone, using ordinary analogue all band pass filters are
                      > > > > > > quieter on the RX side. I do not need much bells and whistles- those
                      > > > > > > will remove much of the fun and skills required as a radio operator !
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > My 40/30/20 Ensemble is working perfectly on receive, with full
                      > > > > > > loudspeaker volume at 1uv signal injection from an Elekraft XG-2
                      > > > > > > signal generator. On tx, I am injecting a 0db audio signal from a pc
                      > > > > > > based generator, but I am getting 16 to 20dbm, which I am not
                      > > > > happy. I
                      > > > > > > expect some 25 to 30 dbm.The LPF has been modified, as per recent
                      > > > > > > modifications. PC based oscillators cannot go over the 0db level. I
                      > > > > > > will have to use an ordinary tone oscillator, and push a higher level
                      > > > > > > output, until clipping, monitoring with a scope.
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > Paul
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                      > > > > <mailto:softrock40%40yahoogroups.com>
                      > > > > > > <mailto:softrock40%40yahoogroups.com>, John Greusel <greusel@> wrote:
                      > > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > > Â This sounds like it may work but I second Warren's question- to
                      > > > > > > what end? This is tearing off the business end of the Softrock
                      > > > > > > (including the software) and what have you got when done? The SDR2GO
                      > > > > > > is relatively inexpensive and will save you an elaborate jumble on
                      > > > > the
                      > > > > > > workbench. If it's just for the sake of experimentation then perhaps
                      > > > > > > it's a worthwhile goal and reason enough.Does the transceiver work
                      > > > > now
                      > > > > > > as designed?
                      > > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > > John
                      > > > > > > > KC9OJV
                      > > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > > ________________________________
                      > > > > > > > From: serracin7388 <pawlud@>
                      > > > > > > > To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                      > > > > <mailto:softrock40%40yahoogroups.com>
                      > > > > <mailto:softrock40%40yahoogroups.com>
                      > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 2:11 PM
                      > > > > > > > Subject: [softrock40] Re: Ensemble RXTX audio levels
                      > > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > > Â
                      > > > > > > > I intend to feed the existing SDA and SCL of the SI570 from an
                      > > > > > > external pic controller, thus no need of a pc.
                      > > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > > As for the tx & rx audio processing, I have various options. Either
                      > > > > > > use part of a disused phasing transceiver module ( G3TDZ Radcom July
                      > > > > > > 1993) or, I have two extra modules as used on the R2pro.
                      > > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > > I fed a 0db tone from a soundcard oscillator, but apparently, this
                      > > > > > > level is not enough, or the levels are wrong. In any case, I have
                      > > > > > > tried some of the many scores of soundcard audio oscillators, and
                      > > > > they
                      > > > > > > are all limited to zero db out.
                      > > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                      > > > > <mailto:softrock40%40yahoogroups.com>
                      > > > > > > <mailto:softrock40%40yahoogroups.com>, "John" <greusel@> wrote:
                      > > > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > > > What Jasmine is telling you is that the audio cables in and out
                      > > > > > > are not carrying audio signals. they're carrying complex, out of
                      > > > > phase
                      > > > > > > information that is converted to RF signals in the softrock (for
                      > > > > > > transmit) and conversely the received signals aren't audio either and
                      > > > > > > require decoding within the PC. There is one related system called
                      > > > > > > SDR2GO by the Austin QRP group that handles the encoding/decoding
                      > > > > > > without a PC so it's possible but not trivial.
                      > > > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > > > John
                      > > > > > > > > KC9OJV
                      > > > > > > > > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                      > > > > <mailto:softrock40%40yahoogroups.com>
                      > > > > > > <mailto:softrock40%40yahoogroups.com>, "serracin7388" <pawlud@> wrote:
                      > > > > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > > > > I intend to operate the Ensemble , without a PC. Need to know
                      > > > > > > what will be the ideal audio level input at line out socket of the TX
                      > > > > > > opamps for maximum ssb out at the pa ?
                      > > > > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > >
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > --
                      > > > > > Sid Boyce ... Hamradio License G3VBV, Licensed Private Pilot
                      > > > > > Emeritus IBM/Amdahl Mainframes and Sun/Fujitsu Servers Tech Support
                      > > > > > Senior Staff Specialist, Cricket Coach
                      > > > > > Microsoft Windows Free Zone - Linux used for all Computing Tasks
                      > > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > --
                      > > > Sid Boyce ... Hamradio License G3VBV, Licensed Private Pilot
                      > > > Emeritus IBM/Amdahl Mainframes and Sun/Fujitsu Servers Tech Support
                      > > > Senior Staff Specialist, Cricket Coach
                      > > > Microsoft Windows Free Zone - Linux used for all Computing Tasks
                      > > >
                      > >
                      >
                    • warrenallgyer
                      I am happy to do that Paul but I am not sure it is very helpful. Q6 receives S12V so there is not voltage on the device on Receive. On Transmit, with no drive
                      Message 10 of 27 , Mar 28, 2013
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                        I am happy to do that Paul but I am not sure it is very helpful.

                        Q6 receives S12V so there is not voltage on the device on Receive.

                        On Transmit, with no drive applied, I measure 1.96 VDC at the base and 1.26 at the emitter.

                        Note: This is with a 13.8 VDC supply (which is another strong recommendation). With 12 VDC the voltages would be correspondingly lower.

                        Warren Allgyer - W8TOD

                        --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "serracin7388" <pawlud@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > I have checked the existing fets and they are matched up to two decimal points.
                        >
                        > What is worth mentioning is that there is no mention in the notes ( or I have not seen it ) of the voltages at the base & emitter of Q6, the 2N222 driver. Would it be possible to check it out for me please, on your rig, on both rx &tx ?
                        >
                        > However, it does mention that the audio input should be 2.4 pp, meaning 0.8 volts rms for full RF out !
                        >
                        > Paul
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "warrenallgyer" <allgyer@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Paul
                        > >
                      • serracin7388
                        Warren, Thanks. I will be checking both the dc and rf voltages at the driver as well. Alan has also some interesting reference voltages. Paul
                        Message 11 of 27 , Mar 28, 2013
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                          Warren,
                          Thanks.

                          I will be checking both the dc and rf voltages at the driver as well. Alan has also some interesting reference voltages.

                          Paul

                          --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "warrenallgyer" <allgyer@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > I am happy to do that Paul but I am not sure it is very helpful.
                          >
                          > Q6 receives S12V so there is not voltage on the device on Receive.
                          >
                          > On Transmit, with no drive applied, I measure 1.96 VDC at the base and 1.26 at the emitter.
                          >
                          > Note: This is with a 13.8 VDC supply (which is another strong recommendation). With 12 VDC the voltages would be correspondingly lower.
                          >
                          > Warren Allgyer - W8TOD
                          >
                          > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "serracin7388" <pawlud@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > I have checked the existing fets and they are matched up to two decimal points.
                          > >
                          > > What is worth mentioning is that there is no mention in the notes ( or I have not seen it ) of the voltages at the base & emitter of Q6, the 2N222 driver. Would it be possible to check it out for me please, on your rig, on both rx &tx ?
                          > >
                          > > However, it does mention that the audio input should be 2.4 pp, meaning 0.8 volts rms for full RF out !
                          > >
                          > > Paul
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "warrenallgyer" <allgyer@> wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > Paul
                          > > >
                          >
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