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Re: WSPR TX problem on Ensemble RXTX with Delta 44 ** Help **

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  • G1IVG
    Alan, That must have been the problem. All test points suggested the PTT was working well. However with no RF output detected. I then used Rocky on CW for a
    Message 1 of 24 , Feb 23, 2013
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      Alan,

      That must have been the problem. All test points suggested the PTT was working well. However with no RF output detected. I then used Rocky on CW for a bit and that worked fine, I then returned to WSPR 2.1 and for some reason the Ensemble started transmitting as it should. I must have disturbed a bad connection some how.

      Thanks for all the help you and others give on this group.

      Regards
      Colin G1IVG

      --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "Alan" <alan4alan@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: "warren
      > Subject: [softrock40] Re: WSPR TX problem on Ensemble RXTX with Delta 44 ** Help **
      >
      >
      > >
      > > I find when I start WSPR I often must de-select then re-select the band that I desire, even if it is sitting on the proper band at
      > > startup.
      >
      >
      > Yes, there are two ways of looking at this. Joe decided to leave it for the operator to set at startup.
      >
      > The problem with Softrocks is that there is no frequency display and no easy way of telling if it has been set to TX unless a LED
      > has been fitted.
      >
      > Colin, Have you checked whether there is audio going into the Softrock?
      >
      > >Similarly, I select both audio interfaces on the Station Parameters panel, even if they are indicating the proper ones at startup.
      > >
      >
      > The usual reason is that Windows re-numbers audio devices when USB ones are added or removed.
      >
      > 73 Alan G4ZFQ
      >
    • Fred Moore
      Slightly off topic, but since we seem to have many WSPR ops here. I notice a question on wsprnet.org some time ago and have not found the answer myself:
      Message 2 of 24 , Feb 23, 2013
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        Slightly off topic, but since we seem to have many WSPR ops here.  I notice a question on wsprnet.org some time ago and have not found the answer myself:

        <quote> I can't find a spot in the FCC rules that permits WSPR. Part 97.111(b) defines a list of permitted, short, one way transmissions. WSPR does not appear to fit the list because it is a list of "short" transmissions.
        Part 97.203 addresses beacons and permitted beacon frequencies. According to this paragraph, no beacons are permitted below 28.2 MHz.
        What an I missing and what loophole allows WSPR transmissions 24 hours per day?"
        </quote>

        I bring this up because I noticed that everyday the background on the water fall on .40 gets whiter and whiter from this type of 24 hour a day activity.  I am really wondering what the answer to this question is.   Not attacking anyone, just wonder about this activity?.. I also get concerned over the loss of a broad range of QRP frequencies, as many can't seem to get exactly on .40.  Can anyone enlighten me, off list is also okay if you don't want to clutter up the list..  fred@...
        Regards.. Fred


        --
        Fred Moore
        Ham Radio:  WD8KNI
        Email: fred@...
        Cell: 321-217-8699
      • warrenallgyer
        Hi Fred Picking a few nits here: 1) All transmissions are one way. 2) No WSPR is 24 hours a day. Even people who transmit at 100% (and almost no one does this)
        Message 3 of 24 , Feb 23, 2013
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          Hi Fred

          Picking a few nits here:

          1) All transmissions are one way.
          2) No WSPR is 24 hours a day. Even people who transmit at 100% (and almost no one does this) transmit on approximately 1:50 cycles with at least 8 seconds of rest. Most transmit at 20-30%, meaning 70-80% of the time the station is NOT transmitting.
          3) All valid WSPR transmissions are confined to a 200 Hz allocation by custom on each band. On 40 meters this is 7040000 to 7040200.
          4) WSPR users who cannot hit this allocation do not transmit for long because no one will spot them.
          5) No one is telling you not to transmit some other mode in this 200 Hz band. We would all appreciate it if you did not but that band is open to do what you wish.
          6) I don't think the loss of 200 Hz is significant to QRP operators who respect the custom. But that is my opinion.

          I think you may have a point on "unattended operation" but I don't think there is anything in the rules prohibiting WSPR type transmissions. And who among us does "unattended operation"?...... well.... uh..... OK, I don't want to go there.

          :-)

          Warren Allgyer - W8TOD



          --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, Fred Moore <fred@...> wrote:
          >
          > Slightly off topic, but since we seem to have many WSPR ops here. I notice
          > a question on wsprnet.org some time ago and have not found the answer
          > myself:
          >
          > <quote> I can't find a spot in the FCC rules that permits WSPR. Part
          > 97.111(b) defines a list of permitted, short, one way transmissions. WSPR
          > does not appear to fit the list because it is a list of "short"
          > transmissions.
          > Part 97.203 addresses beacons and permitted beacon frequencies. According
          > to this paragraph, no beacons are permitted below 28.2 MHz.
          > What an I missing and what loophole allows WSPR transmissions 24 hours per
          > day?"
          > </quote>
          >
          > I bring this up because I noticed that everyday the background on the water
          > fall on .40 gets whiter and whiter from this type of 24 hour a day
          > activity. I am really wondering what the answer to this question is. Not
          > attacking anyone, just wonder about this activity?.. I also get concerned
          > over the loss of a broad range of QRP frequencies, as many can't seem to
          > get exactly on .40. Can anyone enlighten me, off list is also okay if you
          > don't want to clutter up the list.. fred@...
          > Regards.. Fred
          >
          >
          > --
          > *Fred Moore*
          > *Ham Radio: WD8KNI
          > *
          > *Email: fred@...*
          > *Cell: 321-217-8699*
          >
        • Alan
          ... Subject: Re: [softrock40] Re: WSPR TX problem on Ensemble RXTX with Delta 44 ** Help ** ... Fred, I think WSPR is in a grey (gray) area for most amateur
          Message 4 of 24 , Feb 23, 2013
          • 0 Attachment
            ----- Original Message -----
            Subject: Re: [softrock40] Re: WSPR TX problem on Ensemble RXTX with Delta 44 ** Help **


            > Slightly off topic, but since we seem to have many WSPR ops here. I notice
            > a question on wsprnet.org some time ago and have not found the answer
            > myself:
            >

            Fred,

            I think WSPR is in a grey (gray) area for most amateur regulations. Personally I look at it as a "CQ" for a reply via the internet.
            That is not unusual nowadays with internet gateways. The word beacon should be avoided, at least by users of the mode!
            200Hz is not a lot, no-one will operate outside this range for long, there is no point they get no replies. And that 200Hz is
            occupied by a fair number of operators, I see over 70 on 20m at the moment. 80 on 30m.
            Yes, there is sometimes a shortage of space but I wonder what other mode has that sort of occupancy in 200Hz?

            .40? Where do you mean?

            73 Alan G4ZFQ


            > <quote> I can't find a spot in the FCC rules that permits WSPR. Part
            > 97.111(b) defines a list of permitted, short, one way transmissions. WSPR
            > does not appear to fit the list because it is a list of "short"
            > transmissions.
            > Part 97.203 addresses beacons and permitted beacon frequencies. According
            > to this paragraph, no beacons are permitted below 28.2 MHz.
            > What an I missing and what loophole allows WSPR transmissions 24 hours per
            > day?"
            > </quote>
            >
            > I bring this up because I noticed that everyday the background on the water
            > fall on .40 gets whiter and whiter from this type of 24 hour a day
            > activity. I am really wondering what the answer to this question is. Not
            > attacking anyone, just wonder about this activity?.. I also get concerned
            > over the loss of a broad range of QRP frequencies, as many can't seem to
            > get exactly on .40.
          • John Greusel
            Fred, I agree that WSPR is not permitted as a beacon below 10 meters in the US and when I use WSPR I try to not run my station without operator control.
            Message 5 of 24 , Feb 23, 2013
            • 0 Attachment
              Fred,

              I agree that WSPR is not permitted as a beacon below 10 meters in the US and when I use WSPR I try to not run my station without "operator control."  Even J-65 which is a true two way event invites users to walk away while transmitting because of the duration of time segments intrinsic to that mode. I would also say that the FCC has no authority outside the US and many WSPR users would be bound by differing rules. I've reminded several hams that running a "beacon" with WSPR on 20 or 40 meters is not permitted in the US. I've also found that some hams in the US don't know that beacons aren't allowed below 10 meters. WSPR has made a beacon like function available to many now and some misuse is to be expected. Where I disagree is that digital or QRP modes are seriously impacted by the great interest in WSPR- it's a pretty narrow portion and much of those slices are on bands that don't have much use.
              Have you tried WSPR? It's really a great study in propagation and low power levels. Everyone could learn something from it.

              73's
              John
              KC9OJV
               



              From: Fred Moore <fred@...>
              To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 6:06 AM
              Subject: Re: [softrock40] Re: WSPR TX problem on Ensemble RXTX with Delta 44 ** Help **

               
              Slightly off topic, but since we seem to have many WSPR ops here.  I notice a question on wsprnet.org some time ago and have not found the answer myself:

              <quote> I can't find a spot in the FCC rules that permits WSPR. Part 97.111(b) defines a list of permitted, short, one way transmissions. WSPR does not appear to fit the list because it is a list of "short" transmissions.
              Part 97.203 addresses beacons and permitted beacon frequencies. According to this paragraph, no beacons are permitted below 28.2 MHz.
              What an I missing and what loophole allows WSPR transmissions 24 hours per day?"
              </quote>

              I bring this up because I noticed that everyday the background on the water fall on .40 gets whiter and whiter from this type of 24 hour a day activity.  I am really wondering what the answer to this question is.   Not attacking anyone, just wonder about this activity?.. I also get concerned over the loss of a broad range of QRP frequencies, as many can't seem to get exactly on .40.  Can anyone enlighten me, off list is also okay if you don't want to clutter up the list..  fred@...
              Regards.. Fred


              --
              Fred Moore
              Ham Radio:  WD8KNI
              Email: fred@...
              Cell: 321-217-8699


            • Fred Moore
              John, thanks for the reply, and yes I have been on WSPR and have used it to test propagation, and antennas. I have no objection to the mode or the technology,
              Message 6 of 24 , Feb 23, 2013
              • 0 Attachment
                John, thanks for the reply, and yes I have been on WSPR and have used it to test propagation, and antennas. I have no objection to the mode or the technology, I actually use digital modes quite often here. 

                I have several ham friends here that are heavily into that mode.  From listening to them, and monitoring the local 2 meter repeater they just let it run, every few days sometimes weeks, they check and see where there signals were heard, than have a top dog discussion.  I can absolutely assure you that among them and among most hams using this mode, that absolutely nothing is being done as a study, no correlation is being done with solar, or anything else.  

                I also have monitored more than several hams on other forums discussing the equipment required to run QRO for this mode,  just to say that their signals are showing up when others are not. One recently was asking what the maximum current he could run on an 8877 for WSPR, he didn't even understand the duty cycle, intent, or use of the mode.  I queried why he would want to do that, his commented that I obviously don't understand "Top Gun", It seems like it is becoming more and more like a DX contest with some of these folks.  

                One such station on the other side of Orlando was splattering all over the lower portion of 40 meters, about 50 miles from me last week.

                I full agree with you on FCC authority, and different rules.  I also agree with you and others that this is a narrow frequency mode, when used properly.  

                As for QRP being impacted I can not agree, until recently multiple thousands of QRP radio's were rockbound and sold on 7.040.  These rockbound radios are most times almost unusable for QRP, especially QRP/DX.  

                While testing antennas, equipment and propagation, and what ever you want to know are very valid reason to run WSPR, these guys are not playing nice.  If my small sample of this type of ham activity is confined to Orlando, I can't imagine how much when the scope is moved worldwide.  My concern is that it could grow like government, unchecked, and costly to the ham community.

                I have also come to the conclusion that I have no need to run this mode to determine propagation,  I just look at the maps and let the other 20 thousand people tell me what I need to know.

                Thanks for the informative discussion.. Regards..  Fred

                On Sat, Feb 23, 2013 at 8:59 AM, John Greusel <greusel@...> wrote:
                 

                Fred,

                I agree that WSPR is not permitted as a beacon below 10 meters in the US and when I use WSPR I try to not run my station without "operator control."  Even J-65 which is a true two way event invites users to walk away while transmitting because of the duration of time segments intrinsic to that mode. I would also say that the FCC has no authority outside the US and many WSPR users would be bound by differing rules. I've reminded several hams that running a "beacon" with WSPR on 20 or 40 meters is not permitted in the US. I've also found that some hams in the US don't know that beacons aren't allowed below 10 meters. WSPR has made a beacon like function available to many now and some misuse is to be expected. Where I disagree is that digital or QRP modes are seriously impacted by the great interest in WSPR- it's a pretty narrow portion and much of those slices are on bands that don't have much use.
                Have you tried WSPR? It's really a great study in propagation and low power levels. Everyone could learn something from it.

                73's
                John
                KC9OJV
                 



                From: Fred Moore <fred@...>
                To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 6:06 AM

                Subject: Re: [softrock40] Re: WSPR TX problem on Ensemble RXTX with Delta 44 ** Help **

                 
                Slightly off topic, but since we seem to have many WSPR ops here.  I notice a question on wsprnet.org some time ago and have not found the answer myself:

                <quote> I can't find a spot in the FCC rules that permits WSPR. Part 97.111(b) defines a list of permitted, short, one way transmissions. WSPR does not appear to fit the list because it is a list of "short" transmissions.
                Part 97.203 addresses beacons and permitted beacon frequencies. According to this paragraph, no beacons are permitted below 28.2 MHz.
                What an I missing and what loophole allows WSPR transmissions 24 hours per day?"
                </quote>

                I bring this up because I noticed that everyday the background on the water fall on .40 gets whiter and whiter from this type of 24 hour a day activity.  I am really wondering what the answer to this question is.   Not attacking anyone, just wonder about this activity?.. I also get concerned over the loss of a broad range of QRP frequencies, as many can't seem to get exactly on .40.  Can anyone enlighten me, off list is also okay if you don't want to clutter up the list..  fred@...
                Regards.. Fred


                --
                Fred Moore
                Ham Radio:  WD8KNI
                Email: fred@...





                --
                Fred Moore
                Ham Radio:  WD8KNI
                Email: fred@...
                Cell: 321-217-8699
              • John Greusel
                Fred, That s a good point for being protective of  7.040 for rock bound QRP activities. I would suggest that you could suggest an alternative spot to Joe and
                Message 7 of 24 , Feb 23, 2013
                • 0 Attachment
                  Fred,

                  That's a good point for being protective of  7.040 for rock bound QRP activities. I would suggest that you could suggest an alternative spot to Joe and the WSPR community and it might have some effect. It's not such a large group that your voice wouldn't be heard.

                  John
                  KC9OJV
                   



                  From: Fred Moore <fred@...>
                  To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 10:29 AM
                  Subject: Re: [softrock40] Re: WSPR TX problem on Ensemble RXTX with Delta 44 ** Help **

                   
                  John, thanks for the reply, and yes I have been on WSPR and have used it to test propagation, and antennas. I have no objection to the mode or the technology, I actually use digital modes quite often here. 

                  I have several ham friends here that are heavily into that mode.  From listening to them, and monitoring the local 2 meter repeater they just let it run, every few days sometimes weeks, they check and see where there signals were heard, than have a top dog discussion.  I can absolutely assure you that among them and among most hams using this mode, that absolutely nothing is being done as a study, no correlation is being done with solar, or anything else.  

                  I also have monitored more than several hams on other forums discussing the equipment required to run QRO for this mode,  just to say that their signals are showing up when others are not. One recently was asking what the maximum current he could run on an 8877 for WSPR, he didn't even understand the duty cycle, intent, or use of the mode.  I queried why he would want to do that, his commented that I obviously don't understand "Top Gun", It seems like it is becoming more and more like a DX contest with some of these folks.  

                  One such station on the other side of Orlando was splattering all over the lower portion of 40 meters, about 50 miles from me last week.

                  I full agree with you on FCC authority, and different rules.  I also agree with you and others that this is a narrow frequency mode, when used properly.  

                  As for QRP being impacted I can not agree, until recently multiple thousands of QRP radio's were rockbound and sold on 7.040.  These rockbound radios are most times almost unusable for QRP, especially QRP/DX.  

                  While testing antennas, equipment and propagation, and what ever you want to know are very valid reason to run WSPR, these guys are not playing nice.  If my small sample of this type of ham activity is confined to Orlando, I can't imagine how much when the scope is moved worldwide.  My concern is that it could grow like government, unchecked, and costly to the ham community.

                  I have also come to the conclusion that I have no need to run this mode to determine propagation,  I just look at the maps and let the other 20 thousand people tell me what I need to know.

                  Thanks for the informative discussion.. Regards..  Fred

                  On Sat, Feb 23, 2013 at 8:59 AM, John Greusel <greusel@...> wrote:
                   
                  Fred,

                  I agree that WSPR is not permitted as a beacon below 10 meters in the US and when I use WSPR I try to not run my station without "operator control."  Even J-65 which is a true two way event invites users to walk away while transmitting because of the duration of time segments intrinsic to that mode. I would also say that the FCC has no authority outside the US and many WSPR users would be bound by differing rules. I've reminded several hams that running a "beacon" with WSPR on 20 or 40 meters is not permitted in the US. I've also found that some hams in the US don't know that beacons aren't allowed below 10 meters. WSPR has made a beacon like function available to many now and some misuse is to be expected. Where I disagree is that digital or QRP modes are seriously impacted by the great interest in WSPR- it's a pretty narrow portion and much of those slices are on bands that don't have much use.
                  Have you tried WSPR? It's really a great study in propagation and low power levels. Everyone could learn something from it.

                  73's
                  John
                  KC9OJV
                   



                  From: Fred Moore <fred@...>
                  To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 6:06 AM

                  Subject: Re: [softrock40] Re: WSPR TX problem on Ensemble RXTX with Delta 44 ** Help **

                   
                  Slightly off topic, but since we seem to have many WSPR ops here.  I notice a question on wsprnet.org some time ago and have not found the answer myself:

                  <quote> I can't find a spot in the FCC rules that permits WSPR. Part 97.111(b) defines a list of permitted, short, one way transmissions. WSPR does not appear to fit the list because it is a list of "short" transmissions.
                  Part 97.203 addresses beacons and permitted beacon frequencies. According to this paragraph, no beacons are permitted below 28.2 MHz.
                  What an I missing and what loophole allows WSPR transmissions 24 hours per day?"
                  </quote>

                  I bring this up because I noticed that everyday the background on the water fall on .40 gets whiter and whiter from this type of 24 hour a day activity.  I am really wondering what the answer to this question is.   Not attacking anyone, just wonder about this activity?.. I also get concerned over the loss of a broad range of QRP frequencies, as many can't seem to get exactly on .40.  Can anyone enlighten me, off list is also okay if you don't want to clutter up the list..  fred@...
                  Regards.. Fred


                  --
                  Fred Moore
                  Ham Radio:  WD8KNI
                  Email: fred@...





                  --
                  Fred Moore
                  Ham Radio:  WD8KNI
                  Email: fred@...
                  Cell: 321-217-8699


                • John Greusel
                  Fred, I didn t address your other point about abuse. I think there are areas of the country (Florida being one) where good propagation, a large retirement
                  Message 8 of 24 , Feb 23, 2013
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Fred,

                    I didn't address your other point about abuse. I think there are areas of the country (Florida being one) where good propagation, a large retirement community and a Amateur Radio demographic that has the means to operate high powered, "contest ready" stations may lead to a bit more of the excesses you mention than perhaps here in the middle of the country. I don't really know of any WSPR abusers in the Chicago area and I belong to a large club with many hams experimenting with it. That being said I think many or most Florida hams are the "best of breed"- but there is a lot of activity there.

                    John
                    KC9OJV
                     



                    From: Fred Moore <fred@...>
                    To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 10:29 AM
                    Subject: Re: [softrock40] Re: WSPR TX problem on Ensemble RXTX with Delta 44 ** Help **

                     
                    John, thanks for the reply, and yes I have been on WSPR and have used it to test propagation, and antennas. I have no objection to the mode or the technology, I actually use digital modes quite often here. 

                    I have several ham friends here that are heavily into that mode.  From listening to them, and monitoring the local 2 meter repeater they just let it run, every few days sometimes weeks, they check and see where there signals were heard, than have a top dog discussion.  I can absolutely assure you that among them and among most hams using this mode, that absolutely nothing is being done as a study, no correlation is being done with solar, or anything else.  

                    I also have monitored more than several hams on other forums discussing the equipment required to run QRO for this mode,  just to say that their signals are showing up when others are not. One recently was asking what the maximum current he could run on an 8877 for WSPR, he didn't even understand the duty cycle, intent, or use of the mode.  I queried why he would want to do that, his commented that I obviously don't understand "Top Gun", It seems like it is becoming more and more like a DX contest with some of these folks.  

                    One such station on the other side of Orlando was splattering all over the lower portion of 40 meters, about 50 miles from me last week.

                    I full agree with you on FCC authority, and different rules.  I also agree with you and others that this is a narrow frequency mode, when used properly.  

                    As for QRP being impacted I can not agree, until recently multiple thousands of QRP radio's were rockbound and sold on 7.040.  These rockbound radios are most times almost unusable for QRP, especially QRP/DX.  

                    While testing antennas, equipment and propagation, and what ever you want to know are very valid reason to run WSPR, these guys are not playing nice.  If my small sample of this type of ham activity is confined to Orlando, I can't imagine how much when the scope is moved worldwide.  My concern is that it could grow like government, unchecked, and costly to the ham community.

                    I have also come to the conclusion that I have no need to run this mode to determine propagation,  I just look at the maps and let the other 20 thousand people tell me what I need to know.

                    Thanks for the informative discussion.. Regards..  Fred

                    On Sat, Feb 23, 2013 at 8:59 AM, John Greusel <greusel@...> wrote:
                     
                    Fred,

                    I agree that WSPR is not permitted as a beacon below 10 meters in the US and when I use WSPR I try to not run my station without "operator control."  Even J-65 which is a true two way event invites users to walk away while transmitting because of the duration of time segments intrinsic to that mode. I would also say that the FCC has no authority outside the US and many WSPR users would be bound by differing rules. I've reminded several hams that running a "beacon" with WSPR on 20 or 40 meters is not permitted in the US. I've also found that some hams in the US don't know that beacons aren't allowed below 10 meters. WSPR has made a beacon like function available to many now and some misuse is to be expected. Where I disagree is that digital or QRP modes are seriously impacted by the great interest in WSPR- it's a pretty narrow portion and much of those slices are on bands that don't have much use.
                    Have you tried WSPR? It's really a great study in propagation and low power levels. Everyone could learn something from it.

                    73's
                    John
                    KC9OJV
                     



                    From: Fred Moore <fred@...>
                    To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 6:06 AM

                    Subject: Re: [softrock40] Re: WSPR TX problem on Ensemble RXTX with Delta 44 ** Help **

                     
                    Slightly off topic, but since we seem to have many WSPR ops here.  I notice a question on wsprnet.org some time ago and have not found the answer myself:

                    <quote> I can't find a spot in the FCC rules that permits WSPR. Part 97.111(b) defines a list of permitted, short, one way transmissions. WSPR does not appear to fit the list because it is a list of "short" transmissions.
                    Part 97.203 addresses beacons and permitted beacon frequencies. According to this paragraph, no beacons are permitted below 28.2 MHz.
                    What an I missing and what loophole allows WSPR transmissions 24 hours per day?"
                    </quote>

                    I bring this up because I noticed that everyday the background on the water fall on .40 gets whiter and whiter from this type of 24 hour a day activity.  I am really wondering what the answer to this question is.   Not attacking anyone, just wonder about this activity?.. I also get concerned over the loss of a broad range of QRP frequencies, as many can't seem to get exactly on .40.  Can anyone enlighten me, off list is also okay if you don't want to clutter up the list..  fred@...
                    Regards.. Fred


                    --
                    Fred Moore
                    Ham Radio:  WD8KNI
                    Email: fred@...





                    --
                    Fred Moore
                    Ham Radio:  WD8KNI
                    Email: fred@...
                    Cell: 321-217-8699


                  • warrenallgyer
                    Actually an excellent point about rockbound QRP operations. I have one of those myself. I would not mind moving the 40 meter WSPR a few KHz. Warren Allgyer -
                    Message 9 of 24 , Feb 23, 2013
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Actually an excellent point about rockbound QRP operations. I have one of those myself. I would not mind moving the 40 meter WSPR a few KHz.

                      Warren Allgyer - W8TOD

                      --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, John Greusel <greusel@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Fred,
                      >
                      > That's a good point for being protective of  7.040 for rock bound QRP activities. I would suggest that you could suggest an alternative spot to Joe and the WSPR community and it might have some effect. It's not such a large group that your voice wouldn't be heard.
                      >
                      > John
                      > KC9OJV
                      >  
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ________________________________
                      > From: Fred Moore <fred@...>
                      > To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                      > Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 10:29 AM
                      > Subject: Re: [softrock40] Re: WSPR TX problem on Ensemble RXTX with Delta 44 ** Help **
                      >
                      >
                      >  
                      > John, thanks for the reply, and yes I have been on WSPR and have used it to test propagation, and antennas. I have no objection to the mode or the technology, I actually use digital modes quite often here. 
                      >
                      > I have several ham friends here that are heavily into that mode.  From listening to them, and monitoring the local 2 meter repeater they just let it run, every few days sometimes weeks, they check and see where there signals were heard, than have a top dog discussion.  I can absolutely assure you that among them and among most hams using this mode, that absolutely nothing is being done as a study, no correlation is being done with solar, or anything else.  
                      >
                      > I also have monitored more than several hams on other forums discussing the equipment required to run QRO for this mode,  just to say that their signals are showing up when others are not. One recently was asking what the maximum current he could run on an 8877 for WSPR, he didn't even understand the duty cycle, intent, or use of the mode.  I queried why he would want to do that, his commented that I obviously don't understand "Top Gun", It seems like it is becoming more and more like a DX contest with some of these folks.  
                      >
                      > One such station on the other side of Orlando was splattering all over the lower portion of 40 meters, about 50 miles from me last week.
                      >
                      > I full agree with you on FCC authority, and different rules.  I also agree with you and others that this is a narrow frequency mode, when used properly.  
                      >
                      > As for QRP being impacted I can not agree, until recently multiple thousands of QRP radio's were rockbound and sold on 7.040.  These rockbound radios are most times almost unusable for QRP, especially QRP/DX.  
                      >
                      > While testing antennas, equipment and propagation, and what ever you want to know are very valid reason to run WSPR, these guys are not playing nice.  If my small sample of this type of ham activity is confined to Orlando, I can't imagine how much when the scope is moved worldwide.  My concern is that it could grow like government, unchecked, and costly to the ham community.
                      >
                      > I have also come to the conclusion that I have no need to run this mode to determine propagation,  I just look at the maps and let the other 20 thousand people tell me what I need to know.
                      >
                      > Thanks for the informative discussion.. Regards..  Fred
                      >
                      > On Sat, Feb 23, 2013 at 8:59 AM, John Greusel <greusel@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > > 
                      > >Fred,
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >I agree that WSPR is not permitted as a beacon below 10 meters in the US and when I use WSPR I try to not run my station without "operator control."  Even J-65 which is a true two way event invites users to walk away while transmitting because of the duration of time segments intrinsic to that mode. I would also say that the FCC has no authority outside the US and many WSPR users would be bound by differing rules. I've reminded several hams that running a "beacon" with WSPR on 20 or 40 meters is not permitted in the US. I've also found that some hams in the US don't know that beacons aren't allowed below 10 meters. WSPR has made a beacon like function available to many now and some misuse is to be expected. Where I disagree is that digital or QRP modes are seriously impacted by the great interest in WSPR- it's a pretty narrow portion and much of those slices are on bands that don't have much use.
                      > >Have you tried WSPR? It's really a great study in propagation and low power levels. Everyone could learn something from it.
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >73's
                      > >John
                      > >KC9OJV
                      > > 
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >________________________________
                      > > From: Fred Moore <fred@...>
                      > >To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                      > >Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 6:06 AM
                      > >
                      > >Subject: Re: [softrock40] Re: WSPR TX problem on Ensemble RXTX with Delta 44 ** Help **
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > 
                      > >Slightly off topic, but since we seem to have many WSPR ops here.  I notice a question on wsprnet.org some time ago and have not found the answer myself:
                      > >
                      > >
                      > ><quote> I can't find a spot in the FCC rules that permits WSPR. Part 97.111(b) defines a list of permitted, short, one way transmissions. WSPR does not appear to fit the list because it is a list of "short" transmissions.
                      > >Part 97.203 addresses beacons and permitted beacon frequencies. According to this paragraph, no beacons are permitted below 28.2 MHz.
                      > >What an I missing and what loophole allows WSPR transmissions 24 hours per day?"
                      > ></quote>
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >I bring this up because I noticed that everyday the background on the water fall on .40 gets whiter and whiter from this type of 24 hour a day activity.  I am really wondering what the answer to this question is.   Not attacking anyone, just wonder about this activity?.. I also get concerned over the loss of a broad range of QRP frequencies, as many can't seem to get exactly on .40.  Can anyone enlighten me, off list is also okay if you don't want to clutter up the list..  fred@...
                      > >Regards.. Fred
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >--
                      > >Fred Moore
                      > >Ham Radio:  WD8KNI
                      > >
                      > >Email: fred@...
                      > >Cell: 321-217-8699
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      > --
                      > Fred Moore
                      > Ham Radio:  WD8KNI
                      >
                      > Email: fred@...
                      > Cell: 321-217-8699
                      >
                    • Jasmine Strong
                      On a less antisocial note, I run WSPR but never transmit. Since there are other people transmitting, you get to see all sorts of interesting places pop up,
                      Message 10 of 24 , Feb 23, 2013
                      • 0 Attachment

                        On a less antisocial note, I run WSPR but never transmit.  Since there are other people transmitting, you get to see all sorts of interesting places pop up, with no requirement to transmit;  you can correlate it quite nicely with aurora maps.

                        -J.

                        On 23 Feb 2013, at 15:48, "warrenallgyer" <allgyer@...> wrote:

                         

                        Actually an excellent point about rockbound QRP operations. I have one of those myself. I would not mind moving the 40 meter WSPR a few KHz.

                        Warren Allgyer - W8TOD

                        --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, John Greusel wrote:
                        >
                        > Fred,
                        >
                        > That's a good point for being protective of  7.040 for rock bound QRP activities. I would suggest that you could suggest an alternative spot to Joe and the WSPR community and it might have some effect. It's not such a large group that your voice wouldn't be heard.
                        >
                        > John
                        > KC9OJV
                        >  
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ________________________________
                        > From: Fred Moore
                        > To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                        > Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 10:29 AM
                        > Subject: Re: [softrock40] Re: WSPR TX problem on Ensemble RXTX with Delta 44 ** Help **
                        >
                        >
                        >  
                        > John, thanks for the reply, and yes I have been on WSPR and have used it to test propagation, and antennas. I have no objection to the mode or the technology, I actually use digital modes quite often here. 
                        >
                        > I have several ham friends here that are heavily into that mode.  From listening to them, and monitoring the local 2 meter repeater they just let it run, every few days sometimes weeks, they check and see where there signals were heard, than have a top dog discussion.  I can absolutely assure you that among them and among most hams using this mode, that absolutely nothing is being done as a study, no correlation is being done with solar, or anything else.  
                        >
                        > I also have monitored more than several hams on other forums discussing the equipment required to run QRO for this mode,  just to say that their signals are showing up when others are not. One recently was asking what the maximum current he could run on an 8877 for WSPR, he didn't even understand the duty cycle, intent, or use of the mode.  I queried why he would want to do that, his commented that I obviously don't understand "Top Gun", It seems like it is becoming more and more like a DX contest with some of these folks.  
                        >
                        > One such station on the other side of Orlando was splattering all over the lower portion of 40 meters, about 50 miles from me last week.
                        >
                        > I full agree with you on FCC authority, and different rules.  I also agree with you and others that this is a narrow frequency mode, when used properly.  
                        >
                        > As for QRP being impacted I can not agree, until recently multiple thousands of QRP radio's were rockbound and sold on 7.040.  These rockbound radios are most times almost unusable for QRP, especially QRP/DX.  
                        >
                        > While testing antennas, equipment and propagation, and what ever you want to know are very valid reason to run WSPR, these guys are not playing nice.  If my small sample of this type of ham activity is confined to Orlando, I can't imagine how much when the scope is moved worldwide.  My concern is that it could grow like government, unchecked, and costly to the ham community.
                        >
                        > I have also come to the conclusion that I have no need to run this mode to determine propagation,  I just look at the maps and let the other 20 thousand people tell me what I need to know.
                        >
                        > Thanks for the informative discussion.. Regards..  Fred
                        >
                        > On Sat, Feb 23, 2013 at 8:59 AM, John Greusel wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        > > 
                        > >Fred,
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >I agree that WSPR is not permitted as a beacon below 10 meters in the US and when I use WSPR I try to not run my station without "operator control."  Even J-65 which is a true two way event invites users to walk away while transmitting because of the duration of time segments intrinsic to that mode. I would also say that the FCC has no authority outside the US and many WSPR users would be bound by differing rules. I've reminded several hams that running a "beacon" with WSPR on 20 or 40 meters is not permitted in the US. I've also found that some hams in the US don't know that beacons aren't allowed below 10 meters. WSPR has made a beacon like function available to many now and some misuse is to be expected. Where I disagree is that digital or QRP modes are seriously impacted by the great interest in WSPR- it's a pretty narrow portion and much of those slices are on bands that don't have much use.
                        > >Have you tried WSPR? It's really a great study in propagation and low power levels. Everyone could learn something from it.
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >73's
                        > >John
                        > >KC9OJV
                        > > 
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >________________________________
                        > > From: Fred Moore
                        > >To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                        > >Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 6:06 AM
                        > >
                        > >Subject: Re: [softrock40] Re: WSPR TX problem on Ensemble RXTX with Delta 44 ** Help **
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > 
                        > >Slightly off topic, but since we seem to have many WSPR ops here.  I notice a question on wsprnet.org some time ago and have not found the answer myself:
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > I can't find a spot in the FCC rules that permits WSPR. Part 97.111(b) defines a list of permitted, short, one way transmissions. WSPR does not appear to fit the list because it is a list of "short" transmissions.
                        > >Part 97.203 addresses beacons and permitted beacon frequencies. According to this paragraph, no beacons are permitted below 28.2 MHz.
                        > >What an I missing and what loophole allows WSPR transmissions 24 hours per day?"
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >I bring this up because I noticed that everyday the background on the water fall on .40 gets whiter and whiter from this type of 24 hour a day activity.  I am really wondering what the answer to this question is.   Not attacking anyone, just wonder about this activity?.. I also get concerned over the loss of a broad range of QRP frequencies, as many can't seem to get exactly on .40.  Can anyone enlighten me, off list is also okay if you don't want to clutter up the list..  fred@...
                        > >Regards.. Fred
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >--
                        > >Fred Moore
                        > >Ham Radio:  WD8KNI
                        > >
                        > >Email: fred@...
                        > >Cell: 321-217-8699
                        > >
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        > --
                        > Fred Moore
                        > Ham Radio:  WD8KNI
                        >
                        > Email: fred@...
                        > Cell: 321-217-8699
                        >


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