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Re: WSPR TX problem on Ensemble RXTX with Delta 44 ** Help **

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  • G1IVG
    Yes, I have also set USB CAT for PTT Regards Colin G1IVG
    Message 1 of 24 , Feb 20, 2013
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      Yes, I have also set USB CAT for PTT

      Regards
      Colin G1IVG

      > > Colin
      > >
      > > I do not understand this bit
      > >
      > > >>The problem only seems to be when using WSPR when it uses the Line In jack as opposed to the MIC In which is used on SSB.
      > > >
      > >
      > > WSPR uses no Line In. Well, just the Line in for RX.
      > > Line out sends the IQ to the Softrock.
      > > Is the Softrock going to TX mode? USB CAT for PTT?
      > >
      > > 73 Alan G4ZFQ
      > >
      >
    • John Williams
      Are you frequency agile? I.E. are you able to receive on multiple bands. Can you put a meter on S12V and see if the transmitter is actually being set to xmit?
      Message 2 of 24 , Feb 20, 2013
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        Are you frequency agile? I.E. are you able to receive on multiple bands. Can you put a meter on S12V and see if the transmitter is actually being set to xmit? Trying to determine if you have a CAT issue or an audio issue. My wspr uses direct I/Q, PTT using CAT and have the device set to Softrock 2509 in the Rig box, and audio in and out pointing to the line in/out of the card connected to the RXTX. on the Delta you have 4 ports, are you sure the right port is selected for audio out?

        John
        On 2/20/2013 3:48 PM, G1IVG wrote:
         

        Yes, I have also set USB CAT for PTT

        Regards
        Colin G1IVG

        > > Colin
        > >
        > > I do not understand this bit
        > >
        > > >>The problem only seems to be when using WSPR when it uses the Line In jack as opposed to the MIC In which is used on SSB.
        > > >
        > >
        > > WSPR uses no Line In. Well, just the Line in for RX.
        > > Line out sends the IQ to the Softrock.
        > > Is the Softrock going to TX mode? USB CAT for PTT?
        > >
        > > 73 Alan G4ZFQ
        > >
        >


        -- 
        
        John Williams
        
        KE5SSH - ham since 2007
        WQKA523 - GMRS for family use on the farm
        
      • warrenallgyer
        Hi Colin I find when I start WSPR I often must de-select then re-select the band that I desire, even if it is sitting on the proper band at startup. Similarly,
        Message 3 of 24 , Feb 20, 2013
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          Hi Colin

          I find when I start WSPR I often must de-select then re-select the band that I desire, even if it is sitting on the proper band at startup. Similarly, I select both audio interfaces on the Station Parameters panel, even if they are indicating the proper ones at startup.

          For some reason these settings do not seem to survive from previous sessions for me and I have just settled in this habit rather than investigating why.

          Warren Allgyer - W8TOD

          --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "G1IVG" <g1ivg@...> wrote:
          >
          > Help!!!
          >
          > I have been using my Softrock Ensemble RXTX successfully for over a year and have made many contacts on SSB using PowerSDR. However over the last few days I've been trying to get it working on WSPR using WSPR 2.1. I'm receiving and decoding really well, but for some reason my Softrock Ensemble RXTX doesn't want to transmit any RF even though the WSPR software displays the yellow TX box on the bottom right of the screen.
          >
          > The problem is as if there is no PC generated audio coming out of the Delta 44 into the Softrock Ensemble RXTX.
          >
          > My WSPR setup is as follows:
          >
          > PC : Windows 7 (32bit)
          > RXTX : Softrock Ensemble RXTX (40m, 30m & 20m)
          > Soundcard : Delta 44 with KB9YIG's Interface board.
          > Software : WSPR 2.1
          >
          > I have the TX fraction set at 20 on the slider control and even though the software looks as if the radio is transmitting I get no RF detected on my RF power meter. But with other SDR software when used on SSB I get a good clean 1w of RF out of the radio. The problem only seems to be when using WSPR when it uses the Line In jack as opposed to the MIC In which is used on SSB.
          >
          > I must be missing something obvious, but can't seem to put my finger on what the problem is.
          >
          > Any help greatly appreciated.
          >
          > 73 de Colin G1IVG
          >
        • KQ8M
          Warren, Unless you set the SI570 to default to the frequency you start WSPR on then it goes to the 570 default. WSPR Does not send the frequency to the
          Message 4 of 24 , Feb 20, 2013
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            Warren,

             

            Unless you set the SI570 to default to the frequency you start WSPR on then it goes to the 570 default. WSPR Does not send the frequency to the ensemble on startup.

             

            Tim Herrick, KQ8M

            Charter Member North Coast Contesters

            kq8m@...

             

            AR-Cluster V6 kq8m.no-ip.org

            User Ports: 23, 7373  with local skimmer, 7374 without local skimmer

            Server Ports: V6 3607, V4 Active 3605, V4 Passive 3606

             

            From: softrock40@yahoogroups.com [mailto:softrock40@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of warrenallgyer
            Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2013 6:06 PM
            To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [softrock40] Re: WSPR TX problem on Ensemble RXTX with Delta 44 ** Help **

             

             

            Hi Colin

            I find when I start WSPR I often must de-select then re-select the band that I desire, even if it is sitting on the proper band at startup. Similarly, I select both audio interfaces on the Station Parameters panel, even if they are indicating the proper ones at startup.

            For some reason these settings do not seem to survive from previous sessions for me and I have just settled in this habit rather than investigating why.

            Warren Allgyer - W8TOD

            --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "G1IVG" wrote:
            >
            > Help!!!
            >
            > I have been using my Softrock Ensemble RXTX successfully for over a year and have made many contacts on SSB using PowerSDR. However over the last few days I've been trying to get it working on WSPR using WSPR 2.1. I'm receiving and decoding really well, but for some reason my Softrock Ensemble RXTX doesn't want to transmit any RF even though the WSPR software displays the yellow TX box on the bottom right of the screen.
            >
            > The problem is as if there is no PC generated audio coming out of the Delta 44 into the Softrock Ensemble RXTX.
            >
            > My WSPR setup is as follows:
            >
            > PC : Windows 7 (32bit)
            > RXTX : Softrock Ensemble RXTX (40m, 30m & 20m)
            > Soundcard : Delta 44 with KB9YIG's Interface board.
            > Software : WSPR 2.1
            >
            > I have the TX fraction set at 20 on the slider control and even though the software looks as if the radio is transmitting I get no RF detected on my RF power meter. But with other SDR software when used on SSB I get a good clean 1w of RF out of the radio. The problem only seems to be when using WSPR when it uses the Line In jack as opposed to the MIC In which is used on SSB.
            >
            > I must be missing something obvious, but can't seem to put my finger on what the problem is.
            >
            > Any help greatly appreciated.
            >
            > 73 de Colin G1IVG
            >

          • Alan
            ... From: warren Subject: [softrock40] Re: WSPR TX problem on Ensemble RXTX with Delta 44 ** Help ** ... Yes, there are two ways of looking at this. Joe
            Message 5 of 24 , Feb 20, 2013
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              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "warren
              Subject: [softrock40] Re: WSPR TX problem on Ensemble RXTX with Delta 44 ** Help **


              >
              > I find when I start WSPR I often must de-select then re-select the band that I desire, even if it is sitting on the proper band at
              > startup.


              Yes, there are two ways of looking at this. Joe decided to leave it for the operator to set at startup.

              The problem with Softrocks is that there is no frequency display and no easy way of telling if it has been set to TX unless a LED
              has been fitted.

              Colin, Have you checked whether there is audio going into the Softrock?

              >Similarly, I select both audio interfaces on the Station Parameters panel, even if they are indicating the proper ones at startup.
              >

              The usual reason is that Windows re-numbers audio devices when USB ones are added or removed.

              73 Alan G4ZFQ
            • G1IVG
              Hi John, Following your message I went through the test point voltages to check the PTT and confirmed the radio was going into TX, however still with no audio
              Message 6 of 24 , Feb 23, 2013
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                Hi John,

                Following your message I went through the test point voltages to check the PTT and confirmed the radio was going into TX, however still with no audio or any detectable RF being transmitted out.

                I then came out of my WSPR 2.1 software and ran rocky. I experimented with sending some CW and all appeared OK, good transmitted tones and 1w output. I then came out of Rocky and re-ran the WSPR 2.1 and for some reason it's now TXing with 1w on WSPR and I can't get it to fail....... Confused.......

                I presume I must have had a bad connection on the audio cables etc. however I didn't unplug any cables or change any settings. All I did was ran Rocky and sent a bit of CW and then re-ran WSPR 2.1 and my Ensemble started transmitting correctly again. I left the radio running WSPR for a few hours and was spotted OK in Europe. So in the end it's working, but don't know why!!!!!!

                Thanks for the help again

                Regards
                Colin G1IVG

                --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, John Williams <KE5SSH@...> wrote:
                >
                > Are you frequency agile? I.E. are you able to receive on multiple bands.
                > Can you put a meter on S12V and see if the transmitter is actually being
                > set to xmit? Trying to determine if you have a CAT issue or an audio
                > issue. My wspr uses direct I/Q, PTT using CAT and have the device set to
                > Softrock 2509 in the Rig box, and audio in and out pointing to the line
                > in/out of the card connected to the RXTX. on the Delta you have 4 ports,
                > are you sure the right port is selected for audio out?
                >
                > John
                > On 2/20/2013 3:48 PM, G1IVG wrote:
                > >
                > > Yes, I have also set USB CAT for PTT
                > >
                > > Regards
                > > Colin G1IVG
                > >
                > > > > Colin
                > > > >
                > > > > I do not understand this bit
                > > > >
                > > > > >>The problem only seems to be when using WSPR when it uses the
                > > Line In jack as opposed to the MIC In which is used on SSB.
                > > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > WSPR uses no Line In. Well, just the Line in for RX.
                > > > > Line out sends the IQ to the Softrock.
                > > > > Is the Softrock going to TX mode? USB CAT for PTT?
                > > > >
                > > > > 73 Alan G4ZFQ
                > > > >
                > > >
                > >
                > >
                >
                > --
                >
                > John Williams
                >
                > KE5SSH - ham since 2007
                > WQKA523 - GMRS for family use on the farm
                >
              • G1IVG
                Warren, I have to do the same. I ve got it working now, it looks like I had a bad connection on one of the audio cables. It was a strange fault and seemed to
                Message 7 of 24 , Feb 23, 2013
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                  Warren,
                  I have to do the same.

                  I've got it working now, it looks like I had a bad connection on one of the audio cables. It was a strange fault and seemed to cure its self when I ran Rocky and then WSPR 2.1 again.

                  Regards
                  Colin G1IVG.

                  --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "warrenallgyer" <allgyer@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Hi Colin
                  >
                  > I find when I start WSPR I often must de-select then re-select the band that I desire, even if it is sitting on the proper band at startup. Similarly, I select both audio interfaces on the Station Parameters panel, even if they are indicating the proper ones at startup.
                  >
                  > For some reason these settings do not seem to survive from previous sessions for me and I have just settled in this habit rather than investigating why.
                  >
                  > Warren Allgyer - W8TOD
                  >
                  > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "G1IVG" <g1ivg@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Help!!!
                  > >
                  > > I have been using my Softrock Ensemble RXTX successfully for over a year and have made many contacts on SSB using PowerSDR. However over the last few days I've been trying to get it working on WSPR using WSPR 2.1. I'm receiving and decoding really well, but for some reason my Softrock Ensemble RXTX doesn't want to transmit any RF even though the WSPR software displays the yellow TX box on the bottom right of the screen.
                  > >
                  > > The problem is as if there is no PC generated audio coming out of the Delta 44 into the Softrock Ensemble RXTX.
                  > >
                  > > My WSPR setup is as follows:
                  > >
                  > > PC : Windows 7 (32bit)
                  > > RXTX : Softrock Ensemble RXTX (40m, 30m & 20m)
                  > > Soundcard : Delta 44 with KB9YIG's Interface board.
                  > > Software : WSPR 2.1
                  > >
                  > > I have the TX fraction set at 20 on the slider control and even though the software looks as if the radio is transmitting I get no RF detected on my RF power meter. But with other SDR software when used on SSB I get a good clean 1w of RF out of the radio. The problem only seems to be when using WSPR when it uses the Line In jack as opposed to the MIC In which is used on SSB.
                  > >
                  > > I must be missing something obvious, but can't seem to put my finger on what the problem is.
                  > >
                  > > Any help greatly appreciated.
                  > >
                  > > 73 de Colin G1IVG
                  > >
                  >
                • G1IVG
                  Thanks for the tip Tim, I have also changed the default startup frequency now. 73 de Colin G1IVG
                  Message 8 of 24 , Feb 23, 2013
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                    Thanks for the tip Tim, I have also changed the default startup frequency now.

                    73 de Colin G1IVG

                    --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "KQ8M" <kq8m@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Warren,
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Unless you set the SI570 to default to the frequency you start WSPR on then it goes to the 570 default. WSPR Does not send the
                    > frequency to the ensemble on startup.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Tim Herrick, KQ8M
                    >
                    > Charter Member North Coast Contesters
                    >
                    > kq8m@...
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > AR-Cluster V6 kq8m.no-ip.org
                    >
                    > User Ports: 23, 7373 with local skimmer, 7374 without local skimmer
                    >
                    > Server Ports: V6 3607, V4 Active 3605, V4 Passive 3606
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > From: softrock40@yahoogroups.com [mailto:softrock40@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of warrenallgyer
                    > Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2013 6:06 PM
                    > To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: [softrock40] Re: WSPR TX problem on Ensemble RXTX with Delta 44 ** Help **
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Hi Colin
                    >
                    > I find when I start WSPR I often must de-select then re-select the band that I desire, even if it is sitting on the proper band at
                    > startup. Similarly, I select both audio interfaces on the Station Parameters panel, even if they are indicating the proper ones at
                    > startup.
                    >
                    > For some reason these settings do not seem to survive from previous sessions for me and I have just settled in this habit rather
                    > than investigating why.
                    >
                    > Warren Allgyer - W8TOD
                    >
                    > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com <mailto:softrock40%40yahoogroups.com> , "G1IVG" wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Help!!!
                    > >
                    > > I have been using my Softrock Ensemble RXTX successfully for over a year and have made many contacts on SSB using PowerSDR.
                    > However over the last few days I've been trying to get it working on WSPR using WSPR 2.1. I'm receiving and decoding really well,
                    > but for some reason my Softrock Ensemble RXTX doesn't want to transmit any RF even though the WSPR software displays the yellow TX
                    > box on the bottom right of the screen.
                    > >
                    > > The problem is as if there is no PC generated audio coming out of the Delta 44 into the Softrock Ensemble RXTX.
                    > >
                    > > My WSPR setup is as follows:
                    > >
                    > > PC : Windows 7 (32bit)
                    > > RXTX : Softrock Ensemble RXTX (40m, 30m & 20m)
                    > > Soundcard : Delta 44 with KB9YIG's Interface board.
                    > > Software : WSPR 2.1
                    > >
                    > > I have the TX fraction set at 20 on the slider control and even though the software looks as if the radio is transmitting I get no
                    > RF detected on my RF power meter. But with other SDR software when used on SSB I get a good clean 1w of RF out of the radio. The
                    > problem only seems to be when using WSPR when it uses the Line In jack as opposed to the MIC In which is used on SSB.
                    > >
                    > > I must be missing something obvious, but can't seem to put my finger on what the problem is.
                    > >
                    > > Any help greatly appreciated.
                    > >
                    > > 73 de Colin G1IVG
                    > >
                    >
                  • G1IVG
                    Alan, That must have been the problem. All test points suggested the PTT was working well. However with no RF output detected. I then used Rocky on CW for a
                    Message 9 of 24 , Feb 23, 2013
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                      Alan,

                      That must have been the problem. All test points suggested the PTT was working well. However with no RF output detected. I then used Rocky on CW for a bit and that worked fine, I then returned to WSPR 2.1 and for some reason the Ensemble started transmitting as it should. I must have disturbed a bad connection some how.

                      Thanks for all the help you and others give on this group.

                      Regards
                      Colin G1IVG

                      --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "Alan" <alan4alan@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      > From: "warren
                      > Subject: [softrock40] Re: WSPR TX problem on Ensemble RXTX with Delta 44 ** Help **
                      >
                      >
                      > >
                      > > I find when I start WSPR I often must de-select then re-select the band that I desire, even if it is sitting on the proper band at
                      > > startup.
                      >
                      >
                      > Yes, there are two ways of looking at this. Joe decided to leave it for the operator to set at startup.
                      >
                      > The problem with Softrocks is that there is no frequency display and no easy way of telling if it has been set to TX unless a LED
                      > has been fitted.
                      >
                      > Colin, Have you checked whether there is audio going into the Softrock?
                      >
                      > >Similarly, I select both audio interfaces on the Station Parameters panel, even if they are indicating the proper ones at startup.
                      > >
                      >
                      > The usual reason is that Windows re-numbers audio devices when USB ones are added or removed.
                      >
                      > 73 Alan G4ZFQ
                      >
                    • Fred Moore
                      Slightly off topic, but since we seem to have many WSPR ops here. I notice a question on wsprnet.org some time ago and have not found the answer myself:
                      Message 10 of 24 , Feb 23, 2013
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                        Slightly off topic, but since we seem to have many WSPR ops here.  I notice a question on wsprnet.org some time ago and have not found the answer myself:

                        <quote> I can't find a spot in the FCC rules that permits WSPR. Part 97.111(b) defines a list of permitted, short, one way transmissions. WSPR does not appear to fit the list because it is a list of "short" transmissions.
                        Part 97.203 addresses beacons and permitted beacon frequencies. According to this paragraph, no beacons are permitted below 28.2 MHz.
                        What an I missing and what loophole allows WSPR transmissions 24 hours per day?"
                        </quote>

                        I bring this up because I noticed that everyday the background on the water fall on .40 gets whiter and whiter from this type of 24 hour a day activity.  I am really wondering what the answer to this question is.   Not attacking anyone, just wonder about this activity?.. I also get concerned over the loss of a broad range of QRP frequencies, as many can't seem to get exactly on .40.  Can anyone enlighten me, off list is also okay if you don't want to clutter up the list..  fred@...
                        Regards.. Fred


                        --
                        Fred Moore
                        Ham Radio:  WD8KNI
                        Email: fred@...
                        Cell: 321-217-8699
                      • warrenallgyer
                        Hi Fred Picking a few nits here: 1) All transmissions are one way. 2) No WSPR is 24 hours a day. Even people who transmit at 100% (and almost no one does this)
                        Message 11 of 24 , Feb 23, 2013
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                          Hi Fred

                          Picking a few nits here:

                          1) All transmissions are one way.
                          2) No WSPR is 24 hours a day. Even people who transmit at 100% (and almost no one does this) transmit on approximately 1:50 cycles with at least 8 seconds of rest. Most transmit at 20-30%, meaning 70-80% of the time the station is NOT transmitting.
                          3) All valid WSPR transmissions are confined to a 200 Hz allocation by custom on each band. On 40 meters this is 7040000 to 7040200.
                          4) WSPR users who cannot hit this allocation do not transmit for long because no one will spot them.
                          5) No one is telling you not to transmit some other mode in this 200 Hz band. We would all appreciate it if you did not but that band is open to do what you wish.
                          6) I don't think the loss of 200 Hz is significant to QRP operators who respect the custom. But that is my opinion.

                          I think you may have a point on "unattended operation" but I don't think there is anything in the rules prohibiting WSPR type transmissions. And who among us does "unattended operation"?...... well.... uh..... OK, I don't want to go there.

                          :-)

                          Warren Allgyer - W8TOD



                          --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, Fred Moore <fred@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Slightly off topic, but since we seem to have many WSPR ops here. I notice
                          > a question on wsprnet.org some time ago and have not found the answer
                          > myself:
                          >
                          > <quote> I can't find a spot in the FCC rules that permits WSPR. Part
                          > 97.111(b) defines a list of permitted, short, one way transmissions. WSPR
                          > does not appear to fit the list because it is a list of "short"
                          > transmissions.
                          > Part 97.203 addresses beacons and permitted beacon frequencies. According
                          > to this paragraph, no beacons are permitted below 28.2 MHz.
                          > What an I missing and what loophole allows WSPR transmissions 24 hours per
                          > day?"
                          > </quote>
                          >
                          > I bring this up because I noticed that everyday the background on the water
                          > fall on .40 gets whiter and whiter from this type of 24 hour a day
                          > activity. I am really wondering what the answer to this question is. Not
                          > attacking anyone, just wonder about this activity?.. I also get concerned
                          > over the loss of a broad range of QRP frequencies, as many can't seem to
                          > get exactly on .40. Can anyone enlighten me, off list is also okay if you
                          > don't want to clutter up the list.. fred@...
                          > Regards.. Fred
                          >
                          >
                          > --
                          > *Fred Moore*
                          > *Ham Radio: WD8KNI
                          > *
                          > *Email: fred@...*
                          > *Cell: 321-217-8699*
                          >
                        • Alan
                          ... Subject: Re: [softrock40] Re: WSPR TX problem on Ensemble RXTX with Delta 44 ** Help ** ... Fred, I think WSPR is in a grey (gray) area for most amateur
                          Message 12 of 24 , Feb 23, 2013
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                            ----- Original Message -----
                            Subject: Re: [softrock40] Re: WSPR TX problem on Ensemble RXTX with Delta 44 ** Help **


                            > Slightly off topic, but since we seem to have many WSPR ops here. I notice
                            > a question on wsprnet.org some time ago and have not found the answer
                            > myself:
                            >

                            Fred,

                            I think WSPR is in a grey (gray) area for most amateur regulations. Personally I look at it as a "CQ" for a reply via the internet.
                            That is not unusual nowadays with internet gateways. The word beacon should be avoided, at least by users of the mode!
                            200Hz is not a lot, no-one will operate outside this range for long, there is no point they get no replies. And that 200Hz is
                            occupied by a fair number of operators, I see over 70 on 20m at the moment. 80 on 30m.
                            Yes, there is sometimes a shortage of space but I wonder what other mode has that sort of occupancy in 200Hz?

                            .40? Where do you mean?

                            73 Alan G4ZFQ


                            > <quote> I can't find a spot in the FCC rules that permits WSPR. Part
                            > 97.111(b) defines a list of permitted, short, one way transmissions. WSPR
                            > does not appear to fit the list because it is a list of "short"
                            > transmissions.
                            > Part 97.203 addresses beacons and permitted beacon frequencies. According
                            > to this paragraph, no beacons are permitted below 28.2 MHz.
                            > What an I missing and what loophole allows WSPR transmissions 24 hours per
                            > day?"
                            > </quote>
                            >
                            > I bring this up because I noticed that everyday the background on the water
                            > fall on .40 gets whiter and whiter from this type of 24 hour a day
                            > activity. I am really wondering what the answer to this question is. Not
                            > attacking anyone, just wonder about this activity?.. I also get concerned
                            > over the loss of a broad range of QRP frequencies, as many can't seem to
                            > get exactly on .40.
                          • John Greusel
                            Fred, I agree that WSPR is not permitted as a beacon below 10 meters in the US and when I use WSPR I try to not run my station without operator control.
                            Message 13 of 24 , Feb 23, 2013
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                              Fred,

                              I agree that WSPR is not permitted as a beacon below 10 meters in the US and when I use WSPR I try to not run my station without "operator control."  Even J-65 which is a true two way event invites users to walk away while transmitting because of the duration of time segments intrinsic to that mode. I would also say that the FCC has no authority outside the US and many WSPR users would be bound by differing rules. I've reminded several hams that running a "beacon" with WSPR on 20 or 40 meters is not permitted in the US. I've also found that some hams in the US don't know that beacons aren't allowed below 10 meters. WSPR has made a beacon like function available to many now and some misuse is to be expected. Where I disagree is that digital or QRP modes are seriously impacted by the great interest in WSPR- it's a pretty narrow portion and much of those slices are on bands that don't have much use.
                              Have you tried WSPR? It's really a great study in propagation and low power levels. Everyone could learn something from it.

                              73's
                              John
                              KC9OJV
                               



                              From: Fred Moore <fred@...>
                              To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 6:06 AM
                              Subject: Re: [softrock40] Re: WSPR TX problem on Ensemble RXTX with Delta 44 ** Help **

                               
                              Slightly off topic, but since we seem to have many WSPR ops here.  I notice a question on wsprnet.org some time ago and have not found the answer myself:

                              <quote> I can't find a spot in the FCC rules that permits WSPR. Part 97.111(b) defines a list of permitted, short, one way transmissions. WSPR does not appear to fit the list because it is a list of "short" transmissions.
                              Part 97.203 addresses beacons and permitted beacon frequencies. According to this paragraph, no beacons are permitted below 28.2 MHz.
                              What an I missing and what loophole allows WSPR transmissions 24 hours per day?"
                              </quote>

                              I bring this up because I noticed that everyday the background on the water fall on .40 gets whiter and whiter from this type of 24 hour a day activity.  I am really wondering what the answer to this question is.   Not attacking anyone, just wonder about this activity?.. I also get concerned over the loss of a broad range of QRP frequencies, as many can't seem to get exactly on .40.  Can anyone enlighten me, off list is also okay if you don't want to clutter up the list..  fred@...
                              Regards.. Fred


                              --
                              Fred Moore
                              Ham Radio:  WD8KNI
                              Email: fred@...
                              Cell: 321-217-8699


                            • Fred Moore
                              John, thanks for the reply, and yes I have been on WSPR and have used it to test propagation, and antennas. I have no objection to the mode or the technology,
                              Message 14 of 24 , Feb 23, 2013
                              • 0 Attachment
                                John, thanks for the reply, and yes I have been on WSPR and have used it to test propagation, and antennas. I have no objection to the mode or the technology, I actually use digital modes quite often here. 

                                I have several ham friends here that are heavily into that mode.  From listening to them, and monitoring the local 2 meter repeater they just let it run, every few days sometimes weeks, they check and see where there signals were heard, than have a top dog discussion.  I can absolutely assure you that among them and among most hams using this mode, that absolutely nothing is being done as a study, no correlation is being done with solar, or anything else.  

                                I also have monitored more than several hams on other forums discussing the equipment required to run QRO for this mode,  just to say that their signals are showing up when others are not. One recently was asking what the maximum current he could run on an 8877 for WSPR, he didn't even understand the duty cycle, intent, or use of the mode.  I queried why he would want to do that, his commented that I obviously don't understand "Top Gun", It seems like it is becoming more and more like a DX contest with some of these folks.  

                                One such station on the other side of Orlando was splattering all over the lower portion of 40 meters, about 50 miles from me last week.

                                I full agree with you on FCC authority, and different rules.  I also agree with you and others that this is a narrow frequency mode, when used properly.  

                                As for QRP being impacted I can not agree, until recently multiple thousands of QRP radio's were rockbound and sold on 7.040.  These rockbound radios are most times almost unusable for QRP, especially QRP/DX.  

                                While testing antennas, equipment and propagation, and what ever you want to know are very valid reason to run WSPR, these guys are not playing nice.  If my small sample of this type of ham activity is confined to Orlando, I can't imagine how much when the scope is moved worldwide.  My concern is that it could grow like government, unchecked, and costly to the ham community.

                                I have also come to the conclusion that I have no need to run this mode to determine propagation,  I just look at the maps and let the other 20 thousand people tell me what I need to know.

                                Thanks for the informative discussion.. Regards..  Fred

                                On Sat, Feb 23, 2013 at 8:59 AM, John Greusel <greusel@...> wrote:
                                 

                                Fred,

                                I agree that WSPR is not permitted as a beacon below 10 meters in the US and when I use WSPR I try to not run my station without "operator control."  Even J-65 which is a true two way event invites users to walk away while transmitting because of the duration of time segments intrinsic to that mode. I would also say that the FCC has no authority outside the US and many WSPR users would be bound by differing rules. I've reminded several hams that running a "beacon" with WSPR on 20 or 40 meters is not permitted in the US. I've also found that some hams in the US don't know that beacons aren't allowed below 10 meters. WSPR has made a beacon like function available to many now and some misuse is to be expected. Where I disagree is that digital or QRP modes are seriously impacted by the great interest in WSPR- it's a pretty narrow portion and much of those slices are on bands that don't have much use.
                                Have you tried WSPR? It's really a great study in propagation and low power levels. Everyone could learn something from it.

                                73's
                                John
                                KC9OJV
                                 



                                From: Fred Moore <fred@...>
                                To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 6:06 AM

                                Subject: Re: [softrock40] Re: WSPR TX problem on Ensemble RXTX with Delta 44 ** Help **

                                 
                                Slightly off topic, but since we seem to have many WSPR ops here.  I notice a question on wsprnet.org some time ago and have not found the answer myself:

                                <quote> I can't find a spot in the FCC rules that permits WSPR. Part 97.111(b) defines a list of permitted, short, one way transmissions. WSPR does not appear to fit the list because it is a list of "short" transmissions.
                                Part 97.203 addresses beacons and permitted beacon frequencies. According to this paragraph, no beacons are permitted below 28.2 MHz.
                                What an I missing and what loophole allows WSPR transmissions 24 hours per day?"
                                </quote>

                                I bring this up because I noticed that everyday the background on the water fall on .40 gets whiter and whiter from this type of 24 hour a day activity.  I am really wondering what the answer to this question is.   Not attacking anyone, just wonder about this activity?.. I also get concerned over the loss of a broad range of QRP frequencies, as many can't seem to get exactly on .40.  Can anyone enlighten me, off list is also okay if you don't want to clutter up the list..  fred@...
                                Regards.. Fred


                                --
                                Fred Moore
                                Ham Radio:  WD8KNI
                                Email: fred@...





                                --
                                Fred Moore
                                Ham Radio:  WD8KNI
                                Email: fred@...
                                Cell: 321-217-8699
                              • John Greusel
                                Fred, That s a good point for being protective of  7.040 for rock bound QRP activities. I would suggest that you could suggest an alternative spot to Joe and
                                Message 15 of 24 , Feb 23, 2013
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Fred,

                                  That's a good point for being protective of  7.040 for rock bound QRP activities. I would suggest that you could suggest an alternative spot to Joe and the WSPR community and it might have some effect. It's not such a large group that your voice wouldn't be heard.

                                  John
                                  KC9OJV
                                   



                                  From: Fred Moore <fred@...>
                                  To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 10:29 AM
                                  Subject: Re: [softrock40] Re: WSPR TX problem on Ensemble RXTX with Delta 44 ** Help **

                                   
                                  John, thanks for the reply, and yes I have been on WSPR and have used it to test propagation, and antennas. I have no objection to the mode or the technology, I actually use digital modes quite often here. 

                                  I have several ham friends here that are heavily into that mode.  From listening to them, and monitoring the local 2 meter repeater they just let it run, every few days sometimes weeks, they check and see where there signals were heard, than have a top dog discussion.  I can absolutely assure you that among them and among most hams using this mode, that absolutely nothing is being done as a study, no correlation is being done with solar, or anything else.  

                                  I also have monitored more than several hams on other forums discussing the equipment required to run QRO for this mode,  just to say that their signals are showing up when others are not. One recently was asking what the maximum current he could run on an 8877 for WSPR, he didn't even understand the duty cycle, intent, or use of the mode.  I queried why he would want to do that, his commented that I obviously don't understand "Top Gun", It seems like it is becoming more and more like a DX contest with some of these folks.  

                                  One such station on the other side of Orlando was splattering all over the lower portion of 40 meters, about 50 miles from me last week.

                                  I full agree with you on FCC authority, and different rules.  I also agree with you and others that this is a narrow frequency mode, when used properly.  

                                  As for QRP being impacted I can not agree, until recently multiple thousands of QRP radio's were rockbound and sold on 7.040.  These rockbound radios are most times almost unusable for QRP, especially QRP/DX.  

                                  While testing antennas, equipment and propagation, and what ever you want to know are very valid reason to run WSPR, these guys are not playing nice.  If my small sample of this type of ham activity is confined to Orlando, I can't imagine how much when the scope is moved worldwide.  My concern is that it could grow like government, unchecked, and costly to the ham community.

                                  I have also come to the conclusion that I have no need to run this mode to determine propagation,  I just look at the maps and let the other 20 thousand people tell me what I need to know.

                                  Thanks for the informative discussion.. Regards..  Fred

                                  On Sat, Feb 23, 2013 at 8:59 AM, John Greusel <greusel@...> wrote:
                                   
                                  Fred,

                                  I agree that WSPR is not permitted as a beacon below 10 meters in the US and when I use WSPR I try to not run my station without "operator control."  Even J-65 which is a true two way event invites users to walk away while transmitting because of the duration of time segments intrinsic to that mode. I would also say that the FCC has no authority outside the US and many WSPR users would be bound by differing rules. I've reminded several hams that running a "beacon" with WSPR on 20 or 40 meters is not permitted in the US. I've also found that some hams in the US don't know that beacons aren't allowed below 10 meters. WSPR has made a beacon like function available to many now and some misuse is to be expected. Where I disagree is that digital or QRP modes are seriously impacted by the great interest in WSPR- it's a pretty narrow portion and much of those slices are on bands that don't have much use.
                                  Have you tried WSPR? It's really a great study in propagation and low power levels. Everyone could learn something from it.

                                  73's
                                  John
                                  KC9OJV
                                   



                                  From: Fred Moore <fred@...>
                                  To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 6:06 AM

                                  Subject: Re: [softrock40] Re: WSPR TX problem on Ensemble RXTX with Delta 44 ** Help **

                                   
                                  Slightly off topic, but since we seem to have many WSPR ops here.  I notice a question on wsprnet.org some time ago and have not found the answer myself:

                                  <quote> I can't find a spot in the FCC rules that permits WSPR. Part 97.111(b) defines a list of permitted, short, one way transmissions. WSPR does not appear to fit the list because it is a list of "short" transmissions.
                                  Part 97.203 addresses beacons and permitted beacon frequencies. According to this paragraph, no beacons are permitted below 28.2 MHz.
                                  What an I missing and what loophole allows WSPR transmissions 24 hours per day?"
                                  </quote>

                                  I bring this up because I noticed that everyday the background on the water fall on .40 gets whiter and whiter from this type of 24 hour a day activity.  I am really wondering what the answer to this question is.   Not attacking anyone, just wonder about this activity?.. I also get concerned over the loss of a broad range of QRP frequencies, as many can't seem to get exactly on .40.  Can anyone enlighten me, off list is also okay if you don't want to clutter up the list..  fred@...
                                  Regards.. Fred


                                  --
                                  Fred Moore
                                  Ham Radio:  WD8KNI
                                  Email: fred@...





                                  --
                                  Fred Moore
                                  Ham Radio:  WD8KNI
                                  Email: fred@...
                                  Cell: 321-217-8699


                                • John Greusel
                                  Fred, I didn t address your other point about abuse. I think there are areas of the country (Florida being one) where good propagation, a large retirement
                                  Message 16 of 24 , Feb 23, 2013
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Fred,

                                    I didn't address your other point about abuse. I think there are areas of the country (Florida being one) where good propagation, a large retirement community and a Amateur Radio demographic that has the means to operate high powered, "contest ready" stations may lead to a bit more of the excesses you mention than perhaps here in the middle of the country. I don't really know of any WSPR abusers in the Chicago area and I belong to a large club with many hams experimenting with it. That being said I think many or most Florida hams are the "best of breed"- but there is a lot of activity there.

                                    John
                                    KC9OJV
                                     



                                    From: Fred Moore <fred@...>
                                    To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 10:29 AM
                                    Subject: Re: [softrock40] Re: WSPR TX problem on Ensemble RXTX with Delta 44 ** Help **

                                     
                                    John, thanks for the reply, and yes I have been on WSPR and have used it to test propagation, and antennas. I have no objection to the mode or the technology, I actually use digital modes quite often here. 

                                    I have several ham friends here that are heavily into that mode.  From listening to them, and monitoring the local 2 meter repeater they just let it run, every few days sometimes weeks, they check and see where there signals were heard, than have a top dog discussion.  I can absolutely assure you that among them and among most hams using this mode, that absolutely nothing is being done as a study, no correlation is being done with solar, or anything else.  

                                    I also have monitored more than several hams on other forums discussing the equipment required to run QRO for this mode,  just to say that their signals are showing up when others are not. One recently was asking what the maximum current he could run on an 8877 for WSPR, he didn't even understand the duty cycle, intent, or use of the mode.  I queried why he would want to do that, his commented that I obviously don't understand "Top Gun", It seems like it is becoming more and more like a DX contest with some of these folks.  

                                    One such station on the other side of Orlando was splattering all over the lower portion of 40 meters, about 50 miles from me last week.

                                    I full agree with you on FCC authority, and different rules.  I also agree with you and others that this is a narrow frequency mode, when used properly.  

                                    As for QRP being impacted I can not agree, until recently multiple thousands of QRP radio's were rockbound and sold on 7.040.  These rockbound radios are most times almost unusable for QRP, especially QRP/DX.  

                                    While testing antennas, equipment and propagation, and what ever you want to know are very valid reason to run WSPR, these guys are not playing nice.  If my small sample of this type of ham activity is confined to Orlando, I can't imagine how much when the scope is moved worldwide.  My concern is that it could grow like government, unchecked, and costly to the ham community.

                                    I have also come to the conclusion that I have no need to run this mode to determine propagation,  I just look at the maps and let the other 20 thousand people tell me what I need to know.

                                    Thanks for the informative discussion.. Regards..  Fred

                                    On Sat, Feb 23, 2013 at 8:59 AM, John Greusel <greusel@...> wrote:
                                     
                                    Fred,

                                    I agree that WSPR is not permitted as a beacon below 10 meters in the US and when I use WSPR I try to not run my station without "operator control."  Even J-65 which is a true two way event invites users to walk away while transmitting because of the duration of time segments intrinsic to that mode. I would also say that the FCC has no authority outside the US and many WSPR users would be bound by differing rules. I've reminded several hams that running a "beacon" with WSPR on 20 or 40 meters is not permitted in the US. I've also found that some hams in the US don't know that beacons aren't allowed below 10 meters. WSPR has made a beacon like function available to many now and some misuse is to be expected. Where I disagree is that digital or QRP modes are seriously impacted by the great interest in WSPR- it's a pretty narrow portion and much of those slices are on bands that don't have much use.
                                    Have you tried WSPR? It's really a great study in propagation and low power levels. Everyone could learn something from it.

                                    73's
                                    John
                                    KC9OJV
                                     



                                    From: Fred Moore <fred@...>
                                    To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 6:06 AM

                                    Subject: Re: [softrock40] Re: WSPR TX problem on Ensemble RXTX with Delta 44 ** Help **

                                     
                                    Slightly off topic, but since we seem to have many WSPR ops here.  I notice a question on wsprnet.org some time ago and have not found the answer myself:

                                    <quote> I can't find a spot in the FCC rules that permits WSPR. Part 97.111(b) defines a list of permitted, short, one way transmissions. WSPR does not appear to fit the list because it is a list of "short" transmissions.
                                    Part 97.203 addresses beacons and permitted beacon frequencies. According to this paragraph, no beacons are permitted below 28.2 MHz.
                                    What an I missing and what loophole allows WSPR transmissions 24 hours per day?"
                                    </quote>

                                    I bring this up because I noticed that everyday the background on the water fall on .40 gets whiter and whiter from this type of 24 hour a day activity.  I am really wondering what the answer to this question is.   Not attacking anyone, just wonder about this activity?.. I also get concerned over the loss of a broad range of QRP frequencies, as many can't seem to get exactly on .40.  Can anyone enlighten me, off list is also okay if you don't want to clutter up the list..  fred@...
                                    Regards.. Fred


                                    --
                                    Fred Moore
                                    Ham Radio:  WD8KNI
                                    Email: fred@...





                                    --
                                    Fred Moore
                                    Ham Radio:  WD8KNI
                                    Email: fred@...
                                    Cell: 321-217-8699


                                  • warrenallgyer
                                    Actually an excellent point about rockbound QRP operations. I have one of those myself. I would not mind moving the 40 meter WSPR a few KHz. Warren Allgyer -
                                    Message 17 of 24 , Feb 23, 2013
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Actually an excellent point about rockbound QRP operations. I have one of those myself. I would not mind moving the 40 meter WSPR a few KHz.

                                      Warren Allgyer - W8TOD

                                      --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, John Greusel <greusel@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Fred,
                                      >
                                      > That's a good point for being protective of  7.040 for rock bound QRP activities. I would suggest that you could suggest an alternative spot to Joe and the WSPR community and it might have some effect. It's not such a large group that your voice wouldn't be heard.
                                      >
                                      > John
                                      > KC9OJV
                                      >  
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > ________________________________
                                      > From: Fred Moore <fred@...>
                                      > To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                                      > Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 10:29 AM
                                      > Subject: Re: [softrock40] Re: WSPR TX problem on Ensemble RXTX with Delta 44 ** Help **
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >  
                                      > John, thanks for the reply, and yes I have been on WSPR and have used it to test propagation, and antennas. I have no objection to the mode or the technology, I actually use digital modes quite often here. 
                                      >
                                      > I have several ham friends here that are heavily into that mode.  From listening to them, and monitoring the local 2 meter repeater they just let it run, every few days sometimes weeks, they check and see where there signals were heard, than have a top dog discussion.  I can absolutely assure you that among them and among most hams using this mode, that absolutely nothing is being done as a study, no correlation is being done with solar, or anything else.  
                                      >
                                      > I also have monitored more than several hams on other forums discussing the equipment required to run QRO for this mode,  just to say that their signals are showing up when others are not. One recently was asking what the maximum current he could run on an 8877 for WSPR, he didn't even understand the duty cycle, intent, or use of the mode.  I queried why he would want to do that, his commented that I obviously don't understand "Top Gun", It seems like it is becoming more and more like a DX contest with some of these folks.  
                                      >
                                      > One such station on the other side of Orlando was splattering all over the lower portion of 40 meters, about 50 miles from me last week.
                                      >
                                      > I full agree with you on FCC authority, and different rules.  I also agree with you and others that this is a narrow frequency mode, when used properly.  
                                      >
                                      > As for QRP being impacted I can not agree, until recently multiple thousands of QRP radio's were rockbound and sold on 7.040.  These rockbound radios are most times almost unusable for QRP, especially QRP/DX.  
                                      >
                                      > While testing antennas, equipment and propagation, and what ever you want to know are very valid reason to run WSPR, these guys are not playing nice.  If my small sample of this type of ham activity is confined to Orlando, I can't imagine how much when the scope is moved worldwide.  My concern is that it could grow like government, unchecked, and costly to the ham community.
                                      >
                                      > I have also come to the conclusion that I have no need to run this mode to determine propagation,  I just look at the maps and let the other 20 thousand people tell me what I need to know.
                                      >
                                      > Thanks for the informative discussion.. Regards..  Fred
                                      >
                                      > On Sat, Feb 23, 2013 at 8:59 AM, John Greusel <greusel@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > > 
                                      > >Fred,
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >I agree that WSPR is not permitted as a beacon below 10 meters in the US and when I use WSPR I try to not run my station without "operator control."  Even J-65 which is a true two way event invites users to walk away while transmitting because of the duration of time segments intrinsic to that mode. I would also say that the FCC has no authority outside the US and many WSPR users would be bound by differing rules. I've reminded several hams that running a "beacon" with WSPR on 20 or 40 meters is not permitted in the US. I've also found that some hams in the US don't know that beacons aren't allowed below 10 meters. WSPR has made a beacon like function available to many now and some misuse is to be expected. Where I disagree is that digital or QRP modes are seriously impacted by the great interest in WSPR- it's a pretty narrow portion and much of those slices are on bands that don't have much use.
                                      > >Have you tried WSPR? It's really a great study in propagation and low power levels. Everyone could learn something from it.
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >73's
                                      > >John
                                      > >KC9OJV
                                      > > 
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >________________________________
                                      > > From: Fred Moore <fred@...>
                                      > >To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                                      > >Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 6:06 AM
                                      > >
                                      > >Subject: Re: [softrock40] Re: WSPR TX problem on Ensemble RXTX with Delta 44 ** Help **
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > 
                                      > >Slightly off topic, but since we seem to have many WSPR ops here.  I notice a question on wsprnet.org some time ago and have not found the answer myself:
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > ><quote> I can't find a spot in the FCC rules that permits WSPR. Part 97.111(b) defines a list of permitted, short, one way transmissions. WSPR does not appear to fit the list because it is a list of "short" transmissions.
                                      > >Part 97.203 addresses beacons and permitted beacon frequencies. According to this paragraph, no beacons are permitted below 28.2 MHz.
                                      > >What an I missing and what loophole allows WSPR transmissions 24 hours per day?"
                                      > ></quote>
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >I bring this up because I noticed that everyday the background on the water fall on .40 gets whiter and whiter from this type of 24 hour a day activity.  I am really wondering what the answer to this question is.   Not attacking anyone, just wonder about this activity?.. I also get concerned over the loss of a broad range of QRP frequencies, as many can't seem to get exactly on .40.  Can anyone enlighten me, off list is also okay if you don't want to clutter up the list..  fred@...
                                      > >Regards.. Fred
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >--
                                      > >Fred Moore
                                      > >Ham Radio:  WD8KNI
                                      > >
                                      > >Email: fred@...
                                      > >Cell: 321-217-8699
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > --
                                      > Fred Moore
                                      > Ham Radio:  WD8KNI
                                      >
                                      > Email: fred@...
                                      > Cell: 321-217-8699
                                      >
                                    • Jasmine Strong
                                      On a less antisocial note, I run WSPR but never transmit. Since there are other people transmitting, you get to see all sorts of interesting places pop up,
                                      Message 18 of 24 , Feb 23, 2013
                                      • 0 Attachment

                                        On a less antisocial note, I run WSPR but never transmit.  Since there are other people transmitting, you get to see all sorts of interesting places pop up, with no requirement to transmit;  you can correlate it quite nicely with aurora maps.

                                        -J.

                                        On 23 Feb 2013, at 15:48, "warrenallgyer" <allgyer@...> wrote:

                                         

                                        Actually an excellent point about rockbound QRP operations. I have one of those myself. I would not mind moving the 40 meter WSPR a few KHz.

                                        Warren Allgyer - W8TOD

                                        --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, John Greusel wrote:
                                        >
                                        > Fred,
                                        >
                                        > That's a good point for being protective of  7.040 for rock bound QRP activities. I would suggest that you could suggest an alternative spot to Joe and the WSPR community and it might have some effect. It's not such a large group that your voice wouldn't be heard.
                                        >
                                        > John
                                        > KC9OJV
                                        >  
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > ________________________________
                                        > From: Fred Moore
                                        > To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                                        > Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 10:29 AM
                                        > Subject: Re: [softrock40] Re: WSPR TX problem on Ensemble RXTX with Delta 44 ** Help **
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >  
                                        > John, thanks for the reply, and yes I have been on WSPR and have used it to test propagation, and antennas. I have no objection to the mode or the technology, I actually use digital modes quite often here. 
                                        >
                                        > I have several ham friends here that are heavily into that mode.  From listening to them, and monitoring the local 2 meter repeater they just let it run, every few days sometimes weeks, they check and see where there signals were heard, than have a top dog discussion.  I can absolutely assure you that among them and among most hams using this mode, that absolutely nothing is being done as a study, no correlation is being done with solar, or anything else.  
                                        >
                                        > I also have monitored more than several hams on other forums discussing the equipment required to run QRO for this mode,  just to say that their signals are showing up when others are not. One recently was asking what the maximum current he could run on an 8877 for WSPR, he didn't even understand the duty cycle, intent, or use of the mode.  I queried why he would want to do that, his commented that I obviously don't understand "Top Gun", It seems like it is becoming more and more like a DX contest with some of these folks.  
                                        >
                                        > One such station on the other side of Orlando was splattering all over the lower portion of 40 meters, about 50 miles from me last week.
                                        >
                                        > I full agree with you on FCC authority, and different rules.  I also agree with you and others that this is a narrow frequency mode, when used properly.  
                                        >
                                        > As for QRP being impacted I can not agree, until recently multiple thousands of QRP radio's were rockbound and sold on 7.040.  These rockbound radios are most times almost unusable for QRP, especially QRP/DX.  
                                        >
                                        > While testing antennas, equipment and propagation, and what ever you want to know are very valid reason to run WSPR, these guys are not playing nice.  If my small sample of this type of ham activity is confined to Orlando, I can't imagine how much when the scope is moved worldwide.  My concern is that it could grow like government, unchecked, and costly to the ham community.
                                        >
                                        > I have also come to the conclusion that I have no need to run this mode to determine propagation,  I just look at the maps and let the other 20 thousand people tell me what I need to know.
                                        >
                                        > Thanks for the informative discussion.. Regards..  Fred
                                        >
                                        > On Sat, Feb 23, 2013 at 8:59 AM, John Greusel wrote:
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > > 
                                        > >Fred,
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >I agree that WSPR is not permitted as a beacon below 10 meters in the US and when I use WSPR I try to not run my station without "operator control."  Even J-65 which is a true two way event invites users to walk away while transmitting because of the duration of time segments intrinsic to that mode. I would also say that the FCC has no authority outside the US and many WSPR users would be bound by differing rules. I've reminded several hams that running a "beacon" with WSPR on 20 or 40 meters is not permitted in the US. I've also found that some hams in the US don't know that beacons aren't allowed below 10 meters. WSPR has made a beacon like function available to many now and some misuse is to be expected. Where I disagree is that digital or QRP modes are seriously impacted by the great interest in WSPR- it's a pretty narrow portion and much of those slices are on bands that don't have much use.
                                        > >Have you tried WSPR? It's really a great study in propagation and low power levels. Everyone could learn something from it.
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >73's
                                        > >John
                                        > >KC9OJV
                                        > > 
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >________________________________
                                        > > From: Fred Moore
                                        > >To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                                        > >Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 6:06 AM
                                        > >
                                        > >Subject: Re: [softrock40] Re: WSPR TX problem on Ensemble RXTX with Delta 44 ** Help **
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > 
                                        > >Slightly off topic, but since we seem to have many WSPR ops here.  I notice a question on wsprnet.org some time ago and have not found the answer myself:
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > I can't find a spot in the FCC rules that permits WSPR. Part 97.111(b) defines a list of permitted, short, one way transmissions. WSPR does not appear to fit the list because it is a list of "short" transmissions.
                                        > >Part 97.203 addresses beacons and permitted beacon frequencies. According to this paragraph, no beacons are permitted below 28.2 MHz.
                                        > >What an I missing and what loophole allows WSPR transmissions 24 hours per day?"
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >I bring this up because I noticed that everyday the background on the water fall on .40 gets whiter and whiter from this type of 24 hour a day activity.  I am really wondering what the answer to this question is.   Not attacking anyone, just wonder about this activity?.. I also get concerned over the loss of a broad range of QRP frequencies, as many can't seem to get exactly on .40.  Can anyone enlighten me, off list is also okay if you don't want to clutter up the list..  fred@...
                                        > >Regards.. Fred
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >--
                                        > >Fred Moore
                                        > >Ham Radio:  WD8KNI
                                        > >
                                        > >Email: fred@...
                                        > >Cell: 321-217-8699
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > --
                                        > Fred Moore
                                        > Ham Radio:  WD8KNI
                                        >
                                        > Email: fred@...
                                        > Cell: 321-217-8699
                                        >


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