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Re: [softrock40] Did I kill my Si570?

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  • Nick
    ... Hash: SHA1 ... Sorry forgot that bit Doh!! Yes new build working my way through the build instructions. Just re soldered the area and no change - the PTT &
    Message 1 of 24 , Nov 25, 2012
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      On 25/11/12 17:50, MIKE DURKIN wrote:
      > Been working for months and all of a sudden? New?
      >
      > KC7NOA

      Sorry forgot that bit Doh!!

      Yes new build working my way through the build instructions.

      Just re soldered the area and no change - the PTT & CW/CW2 bit works
      so suspect the AVR is OK.

      Thought?

      Nick

      - --
      "Yes, bugger all that." said Nanny. "Let's curse somebody."
      - --
      Even Nanny Ogg gets upset occasionally
      (Terry Pratchett,
      Wyrd Sisters)
      17:55:01 up 3 days, 4:13, 6 users, load average: 0.68, 0.50, 0.61
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    • MIKE DURKIN
      Re-flow the si570 ... remove most of the solder and recheck... might be a solder bridge ... or wrong startup freq. Got a scope? See if it has output on the
      Message 2 of 24 , Nov 25, 2012
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        Re-flow the si570 ... remove most of the solder and recheck... might be a solder bridge ... or wrong startup freq.

        Got a scope? See if it has output on the output pins(pin if Cmos)

        KC7NOA

        > To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
        > From: m6bvj@dctower.co.uk
        > Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2012 17:59:02 +0000
        > Subject: Re: [softrock40] Did I kill my Si570?
        >
        > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
        > Hash: SHA1
        >
        > On 25/11/12 17:50, MIKE DURKIN wrote:
        > > Been working for months and all of a sudden? New?
        > >
        > > KC7NOA
        >
        > Sorry forgot that bit Doh!!
        >
        > Yes new build working my way through the build instructions.
        >
        > Just re soldered the area and no change - the PTT & CW/CW2 bit works
        > so suspect the AVR is OK.
        >
        > Thought?
        >
        > Nick
        >
        > - --
        > "Yes, bugger all that." said Nanny. "Let's curse somebody."
        > - --
        > Even Nanny Ogg gets upset occasionally
        > (Terry Pratchett,
        > Wyrd Sisters)
        > 17:55:01 up 3 days, 4:13, 6 users, load average: 0.68, 0.50, 0.61
        > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
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        > Comment: Using GnuPG with undefined - http://www.enigmail.net/
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        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
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      • nick_norman2002
        ... Done - twice ... Yup, ... Don t think so ... Well it appears to be OK 28.2MHz ... Yes, and no in that order :-( well there might be fleeting bits of
        Message 3 of 24 , Nov 25, 2012
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          --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, MIKE DURKIN <Patriot121@...> wrote:
          >
          > Re-flow the si570

          Done - twice

          >remove most of the solder and recheck...

          Yup,

          >might be a solder bridge ...

          Don't think so

          >or wrong startup freq.

          Well it appears to be OK 28.2MHz

          > Got a scope? See if it has output on the output pins(pin if Cmos)

          Yes, and no in that order :-( well there might be fleeting bits of signal as the xo jumps to a 'sensible' value than the off again.

          Nick
        • Dave Matthews
          The avr commands the si570. The sequence is usb to avr to si570. If the si570 is jumping around it might have a floating input from the avr. Maybe the
          Message 4 of 24 , Nov 25, 2012
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            The avr commands the si570.  The sequence is usb to avr to si570.  If the si570 is jumping around it might have a floating input from the avr.  Maybe the problem is the input to the oscillator.
             
            Dave
            KB2YWT

            On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 2:28 PM, nick_norman2002 <m6bvj@...> wrote:
             



            --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, MIKE DURKIN <Patriot121@...> wrote:
            >
            > Re-flow the si570

            Done - twice

            >remove most of the solder and recheck...

            Yup,

            >might be a solder bridge ...

            Don't think so

            >or wrong startup freq.

            Well it appears to be OK 28.2MHz

            > Got a scope? See if it has output on the output pins(pin if Cmos)

            Yes, and no in that order :-( well there might be fleeting bits of signal as the xo jumps to a 'sensible' value than the off again.

            Nick


          • Nick
            ... Hash: SHA1 ... I am beginning to wonder if the AVR has got corrupted somehow. Will have to see if I have a programmer that can cope with 8 pin AVRs. I ve
            Message 5 of 24 , Nov 25, 2012
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              On 25/11/12 19:47, Dave Matthews wrote:
              > The avr commands the si570. The sequence is usb to avr to si570.
              > If the si570 is jumping around it might have a floating input from
              > the avr. Maybe the problem is the input to the oscillator.
              >
              > Dave KB2YWT
              >
              >

              I am beginning to wonder if the AVR has got corrupted somehow.

              Will have to see if I have a programmer that can cope with 8 pin AVRs.

              I've been over the Si570 so many times it is probably cooked now :-)

              All the solder joints are OK (I _can_ solder and have treble checked
              with a loupe & reflowed them all as well just to be sure)

              Oh well ... ... ...

              Nick

              - --
              Lady Ramkin's bosom rose and fell like an
              empire.
              (Guards! Guards!)
              20:05:01 up 3 days, 6:23, 6 users, load average: 0.46, 0.60, 0.60
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            • Dave Matthews
              I have had the thin wires in the usb cable break loose before and give me fits. Dave KB2YWT
              Message 6 of 24 , Nov 25, 2012
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                I have had the thin wires in the usb cable break loose before and give me fits.
                Dave
                KB2YWT

                On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 3:11 PM, Nick <m6bvj@...> wrote:
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                On 25/11/12 19:47, Dave Matthews wrote:
                > The avr commands the si570.  The sequence is usb to avr to si570.
                > If the si570 is jumping around it might have a floating input from
                > the avr.  Maybe the problem is the input to the oscillator.
                >
                > Dave KB2YWT
                >
                >

                I am beginning to wonder if the AVR has got corrupted somehow.

                Will have to see if I have a programmer that can cope with 8 pin AVRs.

                I've been over the Si570 so many times it is probably cooked now :-)

                All the solder joints are OK (I _can_ solder and have treble checked
                with a loupe & reflowed them all as well just to be sure)

                Oh well ... ... ...

                Nick

                - --
                Lady Ramkin's bosom rose and fell like an
                empire.
                (Guards! Guards!)
                20:05:01 up 3 days, 6:23, 6 users, load average: 0.46, 0.60, 0.60
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              • Jasmine Strong
                Since the ATtiny in the Softrock is not intended for use with USB and has no slew-rate limiting or pulse-forming hardware, you should always use high quality,
                Message 7 of 24 , Nov 25, 2012
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                  Since the ATtiny in the Softrock is not intended for use with USB and has no slew-rate limiting or pulse-forming hardware, you should always use high quality, well-shielded USB cables with the Softrock, and will not likely have this problem with them.

                  I wish the Softrock used an ATmega16u2 instead;  it has a real USB cell, so it'd be more reliable with random USB hosts, we'd be able to reflash them at home without special tools, and they would have enough pins to support all the features of every radio without needing complicated setup.

                  -J.

                  On 25 Nov 2012, at 12:14, Dave Matthews <n36078@...> wrote:

                   

                  I have had the thin wires in the usb cable break loose before and give me fits.
                  Dave
                  KB2YWT

                  On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 3:11 PM, Nick <m6bvj@...> wrote:
                  -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
                  Hash: SHA1

                  On 25/11/12 19:47, Dave Matthews wrote:
                  > The avr commands the si570.  The sequence is usb to avr to si570.
                  > If the si570 is jumping around it might have a floating input from
                  > the avr.  Maybe the problem is the input to the oscillator.
                  >
                  > Dave KB2YWT
                  >
                  >

                  I am beginning to wonder if the AVR has got corrupted somehow.

                  Will have to see if I have a programmer that can cope with 8 pin AVRs.

                  I've been over the Si570 so many times it is probably cooked now :-)

                  All the solder joints are OK (I _can_ solder and have treble checked
                  with a loupe & reflowed them all as well just to be sure)

                  Oh well ... ... ...

                  Nick

                  - --
                  Lady Ramkin's bosom rose and fell like an
                  empire.
                  (Guards! Guards!)
                  20:05:01 up 3 days, 6:23, 6 users, load average: 0.46, 0.60, 0.60
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                • Chris Wilson
                  ... 25/11/2012 20:51 I sometimes (well often, actually) have trouble with RF in the PC on 10 meters, via USB cables. Could RF kill the chip? I had one die
                  Message 8 of 24 , Nov 25, 2012
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                    >

                    > Since the ATtiny in the Softrock is not intended for use with USB
                    > and has no slew-rate limiting or pulse-forming hardware, you should
                    > always use high quality, well-shielded USB cables with the Softrock,
                    > and will not likely have this problem with them.

                    > I wish the Softrock used an ATmega16u2 instead; it has a real USB
                    > cell, so it'd be more reliable with random USB hosts, we'd be able
                    > to reflash them at home without special tools, and they would have
                    > enough pins to support all the features of every radio without needing complicated setup.

                    > -J.




                    25/11/2012 20:51

                    I sometimes (well often, actually) have trouble with RF in the PC on
                    10 meters, via USB cables. Could RF kill the chip? I had one die
                    seemingly randomly after many months of normal operation, and have
                    seen the same on a chip in a friend's RX Ensemble that I built for him
                    as he has "the shakes" (not booze, or at least he denies that's the
                    cause... ;)) That one also died after about 7 months, but he has no
                    HF transmitting gear, only microwave stuff.



                    --
                    Best Regards,
                    Chris Wilson. 2E0ILY
                  • Dave
                    Chris: I doubt that RF would kill the Si570. It might kill the Attiny as that is what is connected to the outside world. With power applied and the USB NOT
                    Message 9 of 24 , Nov 25, 2012
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                      Chris:
                      I doubt that RF would kill the Si570. It might kill the Attiny as
                      that is what is connected to the outside world.
                      With power applied and the USB NOT connected, what freq. do you see at
                      the Si570 output? When power is first applied, the Si570 outputs its
                      default freq.(probably 56.32 MHz). Then the Attiny will program it to
                      the start frequency(28.2 MHz ??). If your seeing a lot of 50 Hz then
                      perhaps a ground connection is missing.

                      Dave - WB6DHW
                      <http://wb6dhw.com>

                      On 11/25/2012 12:54 PM, Chris Wilson wrote:
                      >
                      >>
                      >> Since the ATtiny in the Softrock is not intended for use with USB
                      >> and has no slew-rate limiting or pulse-forming hardware, you should
                      >> always use high quality, well-shielded USB cables with the Softrock,
                      >> and will not likely have this problem with them.
                      >> I wish the Softrock used an ATmega16u2 instead; it has a real USB
                      >> cell, so it'd be more reliable with random USB hosts, we'd be able
                      >> to reflash them at home without special tools, and they would have
                      >> enough pins to support all the features of every radio without needing complicated setup.
                      >> -J.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > 25/11/2012 20:51
                      >
                      > I sometimes (well often, actually) have trouble with RF in the PC on
                      > 10 meters, via USB cables. Could RF kill the chip? I had one die
                      > seemingly randomly after many months of normal operation, and have
                      > seen the same on a chip in a friend's RX Ensemble that I built for him
                      > as he has "the shakes" (not booze, or at least he denies that's the
                      > cause... ;)) That one also died after about 7 months, but he has no
                      > HF transmitting gear, only microwave stuff.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                    • John
                      Yes more I/O lines so no need to double up on pin functions. Ten control lines for switchable BPF s for all HF bands would also be handy. John G3UGY From:
                      Message 10 of 24 , Nov 25, 2012
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                        Yes more I/O lines so no need to double up on pin functions.  Ten control lines for switchable BPF's for all HF bands would also be handy.
                         
                        John G3UGY
                         

                        Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2012 8:39 PM
                        Subject: Re: [softrock40] Did I kill my Si570?

                         


                        Since the ATtiny in the Softrock is not intended for use with USB and has no slew-rate limiting or pulse-forming hardware, you should always use high quality, well-shielded USB cables with the Softrock, and will not likely have this problem with them.

                        I wish the Softrock used an ATmega16u2 instead;  it has a real USB cell, so it'd be more reliable with random USB hosts, we'd be able to reflash them at home without special tools, and they would have enough pins to support all the features of every radio without needing complicated setup.

                        -J.
                      • MIKE DURKIN
                        Pull the AVR ... take it out of the equation. With power only to the Si570 it should oscillate at its default freq ... check with scope ... both input data
                        Message 11 of 24 , Nov 25, 2012
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                          Pull the AVR ... take it out of the equation. With power only to the Si570 it should oscillate at its default freq ... check with scope ... both input data lines should be high.

                          Mike KC7NOA


                          To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                          From: m6bvj@...
                          Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2012 19:28:56 +0000
                          Subject: [softrock40] Re: Did I kill my Si570?

                           


                          --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, MIKE DURKIN <Patriot121@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Re-flow the si570

                          Done - twice

                          >remove most of the solder and recheck...

                          Yup,

                          >might be a solder bridge ...

                          Don't think so

                          >or wrong startup freq.

                          Well it appears to be OK 28.2MHz

                          > Got a scope? See if it has output on the output pins(pin if Cmos)

                          Yes, and no in that order :-( well there might be fleeting bits of signal as the xo jumps to a 'sensible' value than the off again.

                          Nick


                        • Nick
                          ... Hash: SHA1 Afternoon all (well here in UK) Had a play, just before I toddle off for a night shift, and with no AVR I get the attached view on the scope.
                          Message 12 of 24 , Nov 26, 2012
                          • 1 Attachment
                          • 43 KB
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                          Afternoon all (well here in UK)

                          Had a play, just before I toddle off for a night shift, and with no
                          AVR I get the attached view on the 'scope. Time base set at 10mS/div.
                          sorry it is out of focus but ... (will also put in files area if I can)

                          So looks like I have an ill Si570

                          Oh well will order a new one (and a new AVR as well in case it is the
                          guilty party in this).

                          Thanks for all the help

                          73

                          Nick

                          - --
                          I always thought Detritus would be good at: "I bet
                          you're wondrin' how many time I fired dis crossbow
                          - --"

                          (alt.fan.pratchett)
                          16:00:01 up 4 days, 2:18, 6 users, load average: 0.53, 0.46, 0.50
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                        • MIKE DURKIN
                          Yea ... that s odd looking .... Least the Cmos Si570 and aTtiny85 AVR are fairly cheap ... I put mine in backwards .... you can guess the out come ... I bought
                          Message 13 of 24 , Nov 26, 2012
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                            Yea ... that's odd looking ....

                            Least the Cmos Si570 and aTtiny85 AVR are fairly cheap ...

                            I put mine in backwards .... you can guess the out come ...
                            I bought a replacement and 2 spares ...
                            Hi hi .....

                            KC7NOA

                            > To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                            > From: m6bvj@dctower.co.uk
                            > Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2012 16:08:27 +0000
                            > Subject: Re: [softrock40] Did I kill my Si570? [1 Attachment]
                            >
                            > <*>[Attachment(s) from Nick included below]
                            >
                            > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
                            > Hash: SHA1
                            >
                            > Afternoon all (well here in UK)
                            >
                            > Had a play, just before I toddle off for a night shift, and with no
                            > AVR I get the attached view on the 'scope. Time base set at 10mS/div.
                            > sorry it is out of focus but ... (will also put in files area if I can)
                            >
                            > So looks like I have an ill Si570
                            >
                            > Oh well will order a new one (and a new AVR as well in case it is the
                            > guilty party in this).
                            >
                            > Thanks for all the help
                            >
                            > 73
                            >
                            > Nick
                            >
                            > - --
                            > I always thought Detritus would be good at: "I bet
                            > you're wondrin' how many time I fired dis crossbow
                            > - --"
                            >
                            > (alt.fan.pratchett)
                            > 16:00:01 up 4 days, 2:18, 6 users, load average: 0.53, 0.46, 0.50
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                            > Comment: Using GnuPG with undefined - http://www.enigmail.net/
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                            > =8vas
                            > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
                            >
                            >
                            > <*>Attachment(s) from Nick:
                            >
                            > <*> 1 of 1 Photo(s) http://groups.yahoo.com/group/softrock40/attachments/folder/1643925466/item/list
                            > <*> scope1.jpg
                            >
                            > ------------------------------------
                            >
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                          • Alan
                            ... Subject: RE: [softrock40] Did I kill my Si570? ... A few years back we had a batch that might have been like that. I do not remember if anyone posted a
                            Message 14 of 24 , Nov 26, 2012
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                              ----- Original Message -----
                              Subject: RE: [softrock40] Did I kill my Si570?


                              >that's odd looking ....

                              A few years back we had a batch that might have been like that.
                              I do not remember if anyone posted a scope shot but it was described as pulsing.

                              73 Alan G4ZFQ
                            • Tom Hoflich
                              For the record.... not one of those got shipped to anyone. Tony discovered this and all in the batch were returned for new ones. 73, Tom  
                              Message 15 of 24 , Nov 26, 2012
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                                For the record.... not one of those got shipped to anyone.
                                Tony discovered this and all in the batch were returned for new ones.

                                73, Tom
                                 


                                From: Alan <alan4alan@...>
                                To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Monday, November 26, 2012 12:38 PM
                                Subject: Re: [softrock40] Did I kill my Si570?

                                 

                                ----- Original Message -----
                                Subject: RE: [softrock40] Did I kill my Si570?

                                >that's odd looking ....

                                A few years back we had a batch that might have been like that.
                                I do not remember if anyone posted a scope shot but it was described as pulsing.

                                73 Alan G4ZFQ



                              • nick_norman2002
                                ... Well in that case I killed mine or the firmware has gotten corrupted and has written some way funny stuff into the Si570. Either way new ones on the way -
                                Message 16 of 24 , Nov 26, 2012
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                                  --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, Tom Hoflich <km5h@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > For the record.... not one of those got shipped to anyone.
                                  > Tony discovered this and all in the batch were returned for new ones.
                                  >
                                  > 73, Tom
                                  >  
                                  > http://km5h.softrockradio.org
                                  >

                                  Well in that case I killed mine or the firmware has gotten corrupted and has written some way funny stuff into the Si570.

                                  Either way new ones on the way - and hope to do better next time :-)

                                  On a related topic, is a hot-air gun OK to solder these beasts? - I'll need to use one to get the old one off I think.

                                  Nick
                                • Alan
                                  ... Subject: [softrock40] Re: Did I kill my Si570? ... Actually some were. Several had bad ones then Tony started testing them. ... Nick, Yes, ideal. Cover
                                  Message 17 of 24 , Nov 26, 2012
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                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    Subject: [softrock40] Re: Did I kill my Si570?




                                    > For the record.... not one of those got shipped to anyone.

                                    Actually some were. Several had bad ones then Tony started testing them.

                                    >a hot-air gun OK to solder these beasts? - I'll need to use one to get the old one off I think.

                                    Nick,

                                    Yes, ideal.
                                    Cover everything else with foil.
                                    They have normally proved very tough, one person did that 3 times.

                                    73 Alan G4ZFQ
                                  • MIKE DURKIN
                                    I used a soldering gun ... made a solderblob out of it ... still worked after I cleaned it off with wick .... if you re trying to be careful with the board
                                    Message 18 of 24 , Nov 26, 2012
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                                      I used a soldering gun ... made a solderblob out of it ... still worked after I cleaned it off with wick .... if you're trying to be careful with the board traces ... the Si570 should be fine (specially if it was ok before removal)...

                                      Just my Horror Story ... I use a embossing hot air wand now...

                                      KC7NOA


                                      To: softrock40@yahoogroups.com
                                      From: alan4alan@...
                                      Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2012 21:33:13 +0000
                                      Subject: Re: [softrock40] Re: Did I kill my Si570?

                                       

                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                      Subject: [softrock40] Re: Did I kill my Si570?

                                      > For the record.... not one of those got shipped to anyone.

                                      Actually some were. Several had bad ones then Tony started testing them.

                                      >a hot-air gun OK to solder these beasts? - I'll need to use one to get the old one off I think.

                                      Nick,

                                      Yes, ideal.
                                      Cover everything else with foil.
                                      They have normally proved very tough, one person did that 3 times.

                                      73 Alan G4ZFQ

                                    • nick_norman2002
                                      ... OK Good to know - may even use it to attach all the other SMD stuff - seemed to work OK for my 1090MHz receiver ... Nick
                                      Message 19 of 24 , Nov 26, 2012
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                                        --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "Alan" <alan4alan@...> wrote:

                                        >
                                        > >a hot-air gun OK to solder these beasts? - I'll need to use one to get the old one off I think.
                                        >
                                        > Nick,
                                        >
                                        > Yes, ideal.
                                        > Cover everything else with foil.
                                        > They have normally proved very tough, one person did that 3 times.
                                        >
                                        > 73 Alan G4ZFQ
                                        >

                                        OK Good to know - may even use it to attach all the other SMD stuff - seemed to work OK for my 1090MHz receiver ...

                                        Nick
                                      • Nick
                                        ... Hash: SHA1 Well, not sure I can answer that question but ... I finally got a few hours yesterday (night shift cancelled when I got there) and replaced the
                                        Message 20 of 24 , Dec 17, 2012
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                                          -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
                                          Hash: SHA1

                                          Well, not sure I can answer that question but ...

                                          I finally got a few hours yesterday (night shift cancelled when I got
                                          there) and replaced the Si570 & the AVR - now no funny readings and
                                          all seems OK.

                                          Many thanks to you all

                                          Nick

                                          Was M6BVJ, then 2E0CQE & now M0HGU

                                          - --
                                          Not only did I wipe Lemmings from my hard disc, I overwrote
                                          it so's I couldn't get it back.
                                          (alt.fan.pratchett)
                                          13:15:01 up 2 days, 22:27, 6 users, load average: 0.27, 0.37, 0.43
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                                        • Nick Norman
                                          ... OK all, A follow up: The original Si570 was broken The replacement is 100%, Finally got round to finished the assembly and it works in RX mode - not tried
                                          Message 21 of 24 , Feb 20, 2013
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                                            On 26/11/12 22:42, nick_norman2002 wrote:
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > --- In softrock40@yahoogroups.com, "Alan" <alan4alan@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            >>
                                            >>> a hot-air gun OK to solder these beasts? - I'll need to use one to get the old one off I think.
                                            >>
                                            >> Nick,


                                            OK all,

                                            A follow up:

                                            The original Si570 was broken

                                            The replacement is 100%, Finally got round to finished the assembly and
                                            it works in RX mode - not tried TX yet as I need to sort out adapters to
                                            BNC.

                                            Struggling a bit with the various software but - hey that's part of the
                                            fun, also struggling with windows (not my native environment).

                                            Just thought i let the group know the final outcome.

                                            Regards

                                            Nick

                                            M0HGU


                                            --
                                            I WAS AT A PARTY, he added, a shade reproachfully.
                                            -- Death is summoned by the Wizards
                                            (Terry Pratchett, The Light Fantastic)
                                            15:50:01 up 1 day, 22:46, 6 users, load average: 1.14, 0.96, 0.85
                                          • Jasmine Strong
                                            ... You don t have to use Windows! I use a Mac exclusively for my SoftRock, it works perfectly with DSP Radio once the calibration has been set up (for which
                                            Message 22 of 24 , Feb 20, 2013
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                                              On 20 Feb 2013, at 07:54, Nick Norman <m6bvj@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > Struggling a bit with the various software but - hey that's part of the
                                              > fun, also struggling with windows (not my native environment).

                                              You don't have to use Windows! I use a Mac exclusively for my SoftRock, it works perfectly with DSP Radio once the calibration has been set up (for which I did use Windows).

                                              I haven't tried it in Linux, but there are several pieces of software that support SoftRock there too.

                                              -J.
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